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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-04-28

---Logopened Thu Apr 28 00:00:09 2011
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03:29*andythenorth is sad that providing service to towns destroys them
03:30<Markk>Why's that?
03:31<andythenorth>increases the chance of rebuilding existing houses
03:31<andythenorth>large buildings are typically rebuilt to smaller, or parks
03:32<andythenorth>my 2,400 pop. city is now 1,400
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03:49<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:37<dihedral>good morning
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05:19*andythenorth ponders
05:19<andythenorth>if a ship has 2.5 crew (for running cost purposes)....who's the 0.5?
05:24<@planetmaker>the unborn child of the captain's wife
05:25<andythenorth>the parrot?
05:25<andythenorth>ship's cat?
05:25<andythenorth>n rats
05:25<andythenorth>cabin boy
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06:14<andythenorth>any ideas on this bug?
06:14<andythenorth>I'm completely stumped
06:14<andythenorth>there's only one place in nfo where I can say 'hide all the vehicles' and that's by setting climate 00 for each one
06:15<andythenorth>I don't see how it could possibly be a HEQS-specific bug
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06:27<peter1139>i'm plays with YACD, TAI and FIRS
06:28<peter1139>not many passengers with TAI :p
06:28<andythenorth>you should get some more acronyms
06:30-!-peter1139 is now known as peter1138
06:31<andythenorth>I will sell you acronyms for 1 dollar
06:33<peter1138>aw crap, my vehicles are driving on the right :(
06:33<peter1138>forgot to change that setting :(
06:33<peter1138>hmm, can i change it if i send all RVs to depots?
06:34<@planetmaker>not afaik. zero vehicles required
06:34<peter1138>planetmaker, implement it!
06:35<@planetmaker>Driving right is right :-P
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07:01<Eddi|zuHause>acronym is too close to NARVS
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07:02<andythenorth>if you can make vehicles flip sides, you can probably solve the over-taking problem
07:02*andythenorth imagines
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>there are many overtaking problems... it's basically a state machine like airports
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08:45<KopjeKoffie>does someone know how to compile openttd in windows?
08:45<blathijs>KopjeKoffie: Did you try the wiki?
08:45<blathijs>I'm pretty sure this is documented somewhere, either on the wiki or in a README file (or something similar) in the sources
08:46<KopjeKoffie>but i have never word with Visual studio 2010
08:47<__ln__>"have never word"?
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>KopjeKoffie: have you checked this?
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08:49*andythenorth points and waves
08:49<KopjeKoffie>thanks Eddi|zuHause, i will read that
08:49<andythenorth>adjusting the units for engineering supplies might really be a good idea
08:49<KopjeKoffie>word --> worked, sorry
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09:34<peter1138>yay for cargodest
09:34<@planetmaker>or rather yacd?
09:36<peter1138>whatever works
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09:41<delexi>Is there anyone here who has experience with the openttd port for NDS ?
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09:42<delexi>I am looking for an explanation on how to use the nds port with an emulator like NO§GBA
09:42<delexi>anyone there who could give me some help with that?
09:43<Ammler>delexi: there are wiki pages and forums threads about, did you check those?
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09:47<delexi>i found the wiki side of the nds port, but all instructions listed there apply to the use of a Card with the Nintendo DS. I followed those instructions as i thought they maybe would work for me too, but they didn't. I always get following error msg: "[Error:]Couldn't open config file. Please copy openttd.cfg to the root directory.""
09:49<@planetmaker>did you try to follow that error message?
09:50<delexi>well, the openttd.cfg file is in the same directory as the openttd.nds
09:50<delexi>as i considered that to be the root directory
09:50<peter1138>damn, i made a loss :(
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09:51<peter1138>would've been a profit, without the loan interest :S
09:51<Juo>im so glad openttd is being built for OS X again :D
09:51<@planetmaker>delexi: I'd consider the dir where openttd binary is created the root dir
09:54<delexi>what do you mean with "openttd binaries" ? When do i have to create binaries when i want to play openttd on the NDS? I thought my rom (openttd.nds) are my binaries.
09:54<@planetmaker>I mean whatever is the equivalent of openttd.exe or openttd
09:55<@planetmaker>from my brief look at some of these ports I seem to recall that insided these files like nds there are the dirs of the bundle
09:55<@planetmaker>but I don't really know them
09:56<@planetmaker>you might consider also changing the config path to something which is writable
09:56<@planetmaker>Usually OpenTTD creates a config file upon startup
09:57<delexi>well after extracting the zip i had the a directory with following content: data/ openttd.nds openttd.cfg
09:58<delexi>the openttd dir is on my Desktop, so this should be writable i think
09:58<@planetmaker>./configure --personal-dir=<dir>
09:59<@planetmaker>are you sure your desktop is writable and the proper path for your emulator?
10:00<@planetmaker>anyway, I've never even tried to compile for a console or phone device. So...
10:02<delexi>well i started the emulation with administrator privileges and it still cant find the config file, so i guess it has nothing to do with write access.
10:02<delexi>btw i'm on a win7 machine
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10:02<delexi>so i guess "./configure --personal-dir=<dir>" wont work, will it?
10:04<peter1138>hmm, i suppose i could cheat by making large catchment areas
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10:06<@planetmaker>delexi: the question is rather "what is the root dir for an nds device / file"
10:07<@planetmaker>you'll have to figure out that
10:07<delexi>yeah possibly
10:08<@planetmaker>and configuring with a different than default personal dir might circumvent that problem. Maybe not
10:11<delexi>how do i change my personal dir?
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>man... i need a proper timetable-and-separation gui... !!!
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>manually setting timetables and start dates for each vehicle (in the right order!) is a pain, when you have 15 trams on one line...
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10:49<Eddi|zuHause>*mental note* don't use "light blue" as colour for ships :p
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11:03*Rubidium agrees on the timetable thingy
11:05<KopjeKoffie>sow, I have the setup complete of Visual studio 2010, imported the project, en chanced the settings like:
11:06<KopjeKoffie>But when ik build the project i get this:
11:06<KopjeKoffie>ik = I
11:07<Hirundo>Did you setup all the correct libraries and did you add them to the MSVC search path?
11:10<KopjeKoffie>of course, but i will check it again
11:13<Hirundo>winmm.lib seems related to the music (midi) playback
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11:15<Eddi|zuHause>someone should take a look whether the warnings are real
11:16<KopjeKoffie>ah, i have found the WIN32_ENABLE_DIRECTMUSIC_SUPPORT thing
11:16<KopjeKoffie>I delete it, en now i am building openttd again
11:17<Hirundo>it's a cargodist build, I guess those (cargopacket stuff) are not in trunk
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>Hirundo: well, then "someone" is fonsinchen...
11:18<KopjeKoffie>oke, and what does that mean?
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>KopjeKoffie: nothing yet. don't worry ;)
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11:26<Hirundo>Eddi|zuHause: I posted them to the forum
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11:53<ZirconiumX>Hello all
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12:35<ZirconiumX>I have an ai - which has died and been sold to me
12:35<ZirconiumX>the company square it had - is still red
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12:38<LordAro>a picture speaks better than words...
12:39<@Terkhen>or a bug report including screenshots and steps to reproduce :)
12:42<@planetmaker>or a same-coloured AI started anew ;-)
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13:11<ZirconiumX>Steps to reproduce
13:11<ZirconiumX>create a 'basic' ai - that dies
13:11<ZirconiumX>let the ai die
13:11<@Terkhen>if you don't write a proper bug report at the tracker it will probably get forgotten
13:12<ZirconiumX>the square on the ai debug panel should be red
13:13<ZirconiumX>a faint red though
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13:17<@planetmaker>and when you're at it, make it easy to reproduce, give us an AI which does what you want it to do in order to re-create the problem
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13:27<@Belugas>suicidal AI
13:27<@Belugas>guaranteed to die!
13:28<ZirconiumX>as I put
13:29<ZirconiumX><info> The world's most *USELESS* AI has started
13:29<ZirconiumX><warning> Beware.
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13:50<@SmatZ>hmm @ FS#4602
13:50<@SmatZ>I knew about that bug
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13:50<@SmatZ>then I fixed it... at least I thought I did :)
13:50<@SmatZ>and then I forgot :)
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13:52<@SmatZ>heh... I was in Marrakech ~two weeks ago... on the very same square, where today a bomb exploded, killing ~11 people :P (me on the square = )
13:54<ZirconiumX>SmatZ: I don't consider that funny
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13:54<ZirconiumX>11 people = :(
13:54<@SmatZ>even 14, maybe
13:55<@SmatZ>nobody can find that funny, imo
13:55*ZirconiumX pushes the sad smily to his limits
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14:16<frosch123> <- is someone able to translate that to english? :p
14:18<ZirconiumX>frosch123: no - but I can translate it to Gibberish - no wait- it already is Gibberish
14:19*DanMacK gives up
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14:29<@planetmaker>I also tried and failed
14:30<Zuu>Can MSVC Express use crash.dmp?
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14:32<Eddi|zuHause>he's trying to double (read: building a second next to it) the industry, and it's costing 0, but nothing appears?
14:33<ZirconiumX>That - I wouldn't call a bug
14:33<__ln__>Zuu: i think it can.
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: the build must have a .pdb file
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14:35<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: I have both the project that built OpenTTD and the pdb file that was produced when building OpenTTD.
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>i don't actually know any further than this :p
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14:37<Zuu>I can double-click the .dmp file and it opens in MSVC and I can even hit "Run" and it will try to run the dmp file in some way.
14:39<@planetmaker>Zuu: you need the exact same version as the crash.dmp in order to get sensible output (just telling)
14:40<Zuu>I do have the exact corresponding openttd.pdb file. :-)
14:40<Zuu>Still I don't make sense of the express version or how to obtain the call stack.
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14:41<@Belugas>Mmmh... that Digitals guy... quite interesting reading... makes me wnder which country he is from...
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14:43<@planetmaker>he's not stupid, at least it seems so. But it remains to be seen how quickly he'll find his way around ;-)
14:45<Rubidium>Zuu: express can do it, as glx used to be able to get traces with his express version
14:47<Zuu>Ok, I guess I have to find the documentation of it.
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14:47<Rubidium>Zuu: try putting the crash.dmp, pdb and exe in the same directory (with nothing else)
14:47<Rubidium>then open the crash.dmp and hit run. That should resolve the exe and pdb (I think)
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14:48<Rubidium>although... if it's doing automatic symbol resolution it might take a *long* time the first time as it fetches a lot of data from Microsoft regarding the dlls that were loaded at the time
14:49<Rubidium>and while doing that it's proud to say it's done/finished while it's downloading the next one or something
14:49<Zuu>Hmm, I think I got it now.
14:49<Rubidium>and long is something like 5 to 15 minutes
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14:55<@Belugas>no, he does not sounds like an idiot. but either his translation book is horrible, or he does not use one and he's not very good in english
14:56*Belugas wonders
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15:05<DanMacK>Hey Andy
15:05<andythenorth>hi DanMacK
15:05<andythenorth>a short visit
15:05<andythenorth>gtg ;)
15:09<@planetmaker>DanMacK: your thomas tank engine sprites are beautiful marvels :-)
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15:11<DanMacK>Thank you :) Credit goes to Pikka for the bases, I just painted them :P
15:14<@planetmaker>but they're again without proper palette :-(
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15:36<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: I think I need your hacked up NewGRFs to debug your savegame, I only get lots of invalid cargo otherwise. And the catchment area sounds like a bug, there should be no change over trunk. Got a save/instructions to reproduce?
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15:38<DanMacK>You know what... Palette is really pissing me off
15:38<DanMacK>I've NEVER had this much problem before
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: was the same savegame, in Havelkirchen Fabrik i added a station tile in the middle of the milk-thingie in order for the cargo tram from Havelkirchen Mühle to pick up manufacturing supplies
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: did the attachment arrive? it isn't displayed here
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16:01<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: I got a PM, but no file
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16:08<DanMacK>Hey Lakie
16:09<Lakie>Hi DanMacK
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17:07<Eddi|zuHause>man... every time i extend the tram system in one of my cities, my rail line capacity totally breaks down :p
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17:15<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: Somehow the cached next hop data in the cargo packets of the tram wasn't properly invalidated. When I simply add and remove an order or let a vehicle share orders, it is properly invalidated. So maybe it was either already (unknowingly) fixed or you did something special. Do you still remember what you did when you changed the orders?
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: not really
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17:16<+michi_cc>Well, with 1.1 simply adding a dummy order and then removing it again should fix your never-unloading vehicles.
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17:34<Eddi|zuHause>well, i have solved it by placing an "unload and load" order at the end station
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't hurt ordinary operation
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17:37<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: I spoke too soon, there's actually a design bug in the next hop invalidation. A proper fix will have to wait for tomorrow though.
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18:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm... on start/stop of ship in the depot, the refit button does not get properly redrawn
18:10<@Terkhen>good night
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18:16<Eddi|zuHause>airplanes really are hopeless...
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---Logclosed Fri Apr 29 00:00:24 2011