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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-05-06

---Logopened Fri May 06 00:00:07 2011
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02:59<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:01<@planetmaker>moin
03:03<__ln__>@seen morning
03:03<@DorpsGek>__ln__: I have not seen morning.
03:04<ChoHag_>Did you open the curtains?
03:05<__ln__>heureka
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03:17<ChoHag_>:q
03:18<@peter1138>hurr
03:21<ChoHag_>Can cargodist load old (generic 1.0) games?
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03:24<@Terkhen>it should be, try it
03:24<ChoHag_>Did. Segfault.
03:24<ChoHag_>I wondered if that was basically expected or not.
03:28<@Terkhen>segfaults should never be expected
03:29<ChoHag_>Well no, more a case of "I haven't worked on the importing old games code yet. Expect bugs."
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03:32<@Terkhen>if that is the case, you will find that information in the patch thread
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03:45<dihedral>good morning ladies
03:46<@planetmaker>moin dihedral
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03:47<@planetmaker>*prod* *prod*, there's some berries which need some dusting before they can be consumed with even greater joy ;-)
03:47<dihedral>yumm yumm :-D
03:47<dihedral>i know :-(
03:48<dihedral>and they are not forgotten :-P
03:48<dihedral>nor is the grape not forgotten
03:49<@planetmaker>:-)
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04:18<Wolf01>hello
04:19<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
04:20-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
04:31<__ln__>http://twitter.com/#!/mikkohypponen/status/66402143325794304
04:36<dihedral>:-D
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05:51<@peter1138>is there a premade web interface for openttd servers? ;)
05:51<@peter1138>not configuration, but status, etc
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06:22<@planetmaker>peter1138, there's dih's ottdlib
06:22<@peter1138>is it fully usable without developing stuff?
06:27<dihedral>....
06:27<dihedral>yes
06:28<dihedral>you want stats over a certain server?
06:32<@peter1138>yar
06:33<@peter1138>Showing results for stdlib. Search instead for ottdlib
06:33<@peter1138>bloody google
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06:34<@planetmaker>maybe openttdlib is the better search term
06:35<@planetmaker>http://www.openttdcoop.org/index.php?page=servers&s=ps <-- seems like ;-)
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06:35<dihedral>peter1138, either on ohloh, dev.openttdcoop.org, or http://pub.dihedral.de/OpenTTDLib
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06:49<@peter1138>gah, stupid server's dishing out the php :p
06:54<@peter1138>Fatal error: Class 'OpenTTDLibCache' not found in /home/openttd/public_html/includes/OpenTTDLib.php on line 331
06:54<@peter1138>hurr
06:55-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>so much for "out of the box" :p
06:55<@peter1138>Fatal error: Cannot use object of type stdClass as array in /home/openttd/public_html/index.php on line 30
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06:58<Rubidium>might Debian's PHP be too new for ottdlib? :)
06:58<@peter1138>5.3.3
07:00<@peter1138>yeah, $info['name'] fails
07:00<@peter1138>$info->name works
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07:20*peter1138 mumbles about the lack of progress bar during game join
07:28<Rubidium>then either the saving is too slow or your connection is too fast
07:28<Rubidium>as it's definitely there
07:28<Rubidium>only it'll only be shown for downloads when it knowns the final size of the to be downloaded file
07:29<Rubidium>which the server will only know after it has compressed the whole thing, but it might already pushed out 90% of the compressed savegame at that time
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07:32<@peter1138>yeah, it's a 2048x2048 map
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07:35<@planetmaker>uh... who plays that big maps?
07:35<Markk>o/
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07:38<@peter1138>my server atm :p
07:40<@Terkhen>they are fun as long as you don't plan on connecting everything :P
07:41<@peter1138>it's a scenario, with lots of wide open spaces, not lots of towns randomly placed
07:45<@Terkhen>yes, when I play on big maps I'm usually playing scenarios like that
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09:06<@Belugas>hello
09:07<@Belugas>IT'S FRIDAY!!
09:07<@peter1138>hi hi
09:07<Markk>*stab*
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09:07<@Belugas>hi sir Nelson :)
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09:28<@Alberth>hi
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09:42<dihedral>peter1138, i'll host it for you if you want it :-P
09:50<Chris_Booth_>peter1138: I also have serverspace on my ubuntu server at the moment
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---Logclosed Fri May 06 10:33:30 2011
---Logopened Fri May 06 10:33:41 2011
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11:11<@Belugas>mmh... noise from under the desk. cpu fan is buzzing
11:11<@Belugas>i'm not thrilled about that
11:12<@Belugas>so...
11:12*Belugas puts on his headphones
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11:16<Prof_Frink>Belugas: Percussive maintenance?
11:16-!-compi [~compi@mail1.itout.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:16<@peter1138>i did that once
11:16<@peter1138>it killed the harddrive
11:17<@Belugas>Prof_Frink, i will not hire you, for sure :)
11:18<@Belugas>peter1138, i'm sure you did not told him about the cause of the death of that HD :)
11:18<@peter1138>quite :)
11:20<Prof_Frink>Belugas: *Careful* percussive maintenance.
11:24<@Belugas>I'd rather go along Bob Dylan
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11:25<@Belugas>although that is leading to dusty situation
11:25<@Belugas>ho boy... from Bob Dylan, I'm heading to Kansas hehehe
11:26<@Belugas>#The answer my friend is blowing in the wind
11:26<@Belugas>#All we are is dust in the wind
11:26*Belugas slurps coffee again
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11:27<@Alberth>make sure you do that with the wind blowing from behind you :)
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11:28<@planetmaker>hm.. sand-blasted? ;-)
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11:47<@Belugas>yeah :) like... Tea in Sahara
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12:23<ragnar76>hi all
12:23<@planetmaker>hi
12:24<ragnar76>got a little prob with openttd 1.04 on debian
12:25<@planetmaker>update to 1.1.0 ;-)
12:25<ragnar76>from tome to time the ki debug comes up and complains me about roads denied to other players and no vehicles
12:26<@planetmaker>you can't destruct roads from other players, if that's your question
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12:26<@planetmaker>or is it an AI which has troubles?
12:27<ragnar76>nope, any other player cannot "my" roads i have build and they can not buy any vehicles
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12:27<@planetmaker>but you can?
12:27<ragnar76>yes
12:28<@planetmaker>And how does it show that they cannot buy any vehicles?
12:28<@planetmaker>Or do they just not buy any vehicles?
12:28<@planetmaker>Do you have a savegame?
12:28<ragnar76>from time to time the ki debug windo comes up and tells me
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12:30<ragnar76>something like this: game saved trying to build new service: $from to $to No Vehicle available!
12:30<@planetmaker>Oh. That's ok.
12:30<@planetmaker>It's just a talkative AI, I think
12:31<ragnar76>sorry, brb. eating
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12:47<@Alberth>maybe it is trying to buy vehicles from a rail type where all vehicles have expired? (eg normal rail in 20x0 or so)
12:48<@planetmaker>or too early
12:48<@planetmaker>and none (yet) available
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12:53<ragnar76>back
12:56<ragnar76>i don't play it that log. i love it to place the rails in a 64x64 map. not much space hard to place the rails without crossing
13:03<@planetmaker>[18:28] planetmaker Do you have a savegame?
13:03<ragnar76>me? only the autosave
13:03<@planetmaker>or you can continue to wonder, talk generally about your game, give no detail about the AI used or the game date
13:03<@planetmaker>nor the newgrfs used
13:04<@planetmaker>well, I certainly don't have that savegame, and you obviously wonder about it. Who else should have it?
13:06-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd
13:06-!-Mucht is "Martin Nussbaumer" on @#coopetition @#JJ @+#openttdcoop.association @#openttdcoop.dev #wwottdgd #openttd @#tycoon.de @#openttdcoop
13:08<ragnar76>wel, it's just the debian installation. no extensions and no changes in the prefs made
13:10<@planetmaker>right. I guess I give up
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13:12<@Alberth>evenink
13:13<@planetmaker>hello Alberth & quak frosch123 :-)
13:15<frosch123>moin :)
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13:26<ChoHag_>Are there stations with a specific style for unloading things other than minerals?
13:27<@planetmaker>ChoHag_: industrial stations renewal has lots
13:28<@Terkhen>depends on what station set you are talking about
13:28<ChoHag_>Oh is there more than one>
13:28<ChoHag_>Can they be switched around without crashing>
13:28*ChoHag_ finds the ? again
13:28<@Terkhen>expect crashes and problems if you change any newgrfs
13:28<@planetmaker>ChoHag_: You can overbuild stations
13:29<ChoHag_>But that's just a gfx mod? Presumably if I switch station grfs I'm just likely to get some weird stations at first, right?
13:29<@Alberth>you presumed wrong
13:30<ChoHag_>Present tense.
13:30<@planetmaker>"just" add additional station grfs. Though... yes, changing grfs on a running game can rarely be recommended
13:30<@Alberth>it is an extension to the game, and also has its own behavior
13:30<ChoHag_>Industrial stations renewal is the one I'm using. I can only see a specific unloader station for minerals.
13:30<@planetmaker>well, there's one mineral unloader, yes
13:32<ChoHag_>Take logging for example, I have a station for loading logs, which fills up with raw logs when it's waiting for a train, but all the log-specific stations do no good for unloading at a sawmill because they're never stock up with logs.
13:33<@planetmaker>ChoHag_: you could (additionally) try CHIPS
13:33<@Terkhen>stations where you unload never show up cargo sprites IIRC
13:34<ChoHag_>Hmm you're not allowed to add grf to a running game any more.
13:35<@planetmaker>that's right
13:36<@planetmaker>and yes, on unloading stations never cargo shows, that's right, so CHIPS is not that usuable there
13:36<V453000>CHIPS shows logs
13:36<V453000>afaik it can show logs, coal or goods
13:37<V453000>maybe something else but I am sure about these 3
13:38<@Alberth>Terkhen: feeder stations?
13:38<@planetmaker>the good thing is, that it does that dynamically
13:38<@planetmaker>one tile fits all :-)
13:38<@Alberth>nice :)
13:38<@Terkhen>cargo probably shows up in feeder station, but not in those where you unload the cargo to an industry
13:38<@Terkhen>oh, that's cool :)
13:40<ChoHag_>Oh well I'll live.
13:40<ChoHag_>It's only cosmetic anyway.
13:42<@planetmaker>ChoHag_: what I do: I have a preset of NewGRFs which I always use; that includes all station NewGRFs I like
13:42<ChoHag_>Yeah me too.
13:42<@planetmaker>Prior to starting a game I select that and then add the game-specific newgrfs
13:42<@planetmaker>ok :-)
13:42<ChoHag_>I was trying to make my set prettier.
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r22427 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt catalan.txt croatian.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belarusian - 3 changes by KorneySan, Wowanxm
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: catalan - 4 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 3 changes by VoyagerOne
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14:27<ChoHag_>What's a good figure to add to travel time?
14:27<ChoHag_>I usually do about 10%.
14:28<@Alberth>8 it's a nice roundly-shaped number
14:28<@Alberth>s/number/figure/
14:28<ChoHag_>Regardless of how long it is prior?
14:28<@planetmaker>I like 9. It's square. You can use it in reverse, then it's 6 and 69 is not that bad either
14:28<ChoHag_>Or do you just like the look fo the glyph?
14:32<@Alberth>ChoHag_: what do you mean 'add to travel time' ?
14:32-!-andythenorth [~Andy@213.99.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd
14:32<@Alberth>he andy!
14:32<Rubidium>what's with andy?
14:32<ChoHag_>When the timetable autofills, the travel time between each station is too optimistic.
14:32<andythenorth>gnineve
14:33<ChoHag_>I usually set the waiting time to 2 days and bump up the travel time to allow room to make up for breakdowns etc.
14:33<ChoHag_>But I usually just leave them alone and I'd like to make a greater effort this time to have them spread out correctly.
14:33<@Alberth>I don't bother with time tables, breakdowns break them too badly
14:33<andythenorth>Alberth: how else do you schedule yacd?
14:33<andythenorth>for PAC
14:34<andythenorth>PAX /s
14:34<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth
14:34<andythenorth>hi hi
14:34<@Terkhen>I still don't know the uses of timetables
14:34<andythenorth>Terkhen: how are you setting vehicle load orders for PAX with YACD?
14:34<@Alberth>andythenorth: I have not been successful in transporting passengers with yacd. I go bankrupt all the time
14:35<andythenorth>it's easy-peasy
14:35<andythenorth>:P
14:35<@Terkhen>always normal orders
14:35*Alberth just states 'visit this station'
14:35<andythenorth>Alberth: that works for high passenger numbers, but if there are low numbers waiting, your vehicle will lose money
14:36<andythenorth>especially if there are variable running costs (e.g. NARS 2)
14:36<andythenorth>you need to wait n days
14:36<andythenorth>that might also help the station rating, or that might be voodoo
14:36<@Alberth>ah, must try that :)
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14:36<andythenorth>I hate station rating algorithm
14:36<andythenorth>Alberth: if you do, write a patch for default 'wait' value
14:36<andythenorth>:P
14:36<andythenorth>it's very boring
14:36<@Terkhen>I'm always losing money, yes
14:36<andythenorth>go to A, wait 1 day
14:37<andythenorth>loads of boring clicks
14:37<@Terkhen>with small links I do not bother, I just set an excessive number of vehicles
14:37<@Terkhen>the big links tend to regulate themselves, I sometimes set full load at one of the stations
14:37<andythenorth>a % full order would have similar result money-wise
14:37<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> Alberth: if you do, write a patch for default 'wait' value <-- one of the timetable patches has that
14:37<ChoHag_>%-full would be nice.
14:37<andythenorth>% full order seems to be a bit invisible
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>ctrl+click on "set time", and it sets the time for all stations
14:38*Alberth wants a patch that can handle break downs
14:38<andythenorth>what would it do?
14:39<@Alberth>spread out vehicles evenly?
14:39<andythenorth>an AI that clicks stop/start? :P
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>each travel order should have two times: one "enforced" time, and one "buffer" time
14:40*andythenorth ponders
14:40<andythenorth>articulated ships -> no no no?
14:42<andythenorth>actually what I pondered was trucks with n invisible trailing vehicles
14:42<@planetmaker>not no no
14:42<andythenorth>so that 1 truck could carry n cargos
14:42<andythenorth>but that reminded me of the ship problem
14:43<@Alberth>ships get tricky due to their size?
14:43<andythenorth>hmm
14:43*andythenorth has just thought of an alternative to rv-wagons
14:43<andythenorth>if I give an RV n trailing vehicles
14:43<andythenorth>and introduce a cargo subtype (invisible)
14:43<andythenorth>players can refit a truck to n trailers
14:43<andythenorth>same for trams
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>but you can't refit individual trailers, only the whole vehicle
14:44<@planetmaker>but you still couldn't refit it to various cargos
14:44<andythenorth>was that not patched for?
14:44*andythenorth tests
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>that feature was removed again
14:44<@Alberth>a unfeature :p
14:44<andythenorth>oh
14:45<andythenorth>ho hum
14:45<andythenorth>what you should actually have said is "that's a stupid crappy hack you're proposing"
14:45<andythenorth>and "be patient" :P
14:46<andythenorth>hmm
14:46<@Alberth>we prefer to wait until the patient himself reaches that conclusion, it is better for the healing process :)
14:46*andythenorth browses forum
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14:46<andythenorth>*does* it make sense to have a bit of both yacd and cargodist in the same game?
14:46<andythenorth>perhaps if you're smoking crack
14:46<Rubidium>yes
14:47<Rubidium>I'd model pax with dest and tourists with dist
14:47<andythenorth>yes, Rubidium is smoking crack?
14:47<andythenorth>oh I see
14:48<Rubidium>as tourists generally go somewhere they can go, whereas pax don't go with "public transport" if they can't reach their destination
14:48<andythenorth>Rubidium: so it makes sense when limited by cargo type?
14:49<Rubidium>yep. Whether we'd want it to happen is something else
14:50<andythenorth>does it make sense when both mechanisms apply to same cargo?
14:50<Rubidium>it'd model reality better, but it'd probably be an implementation nightmare
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>fonso said he'd already have an implementation for cargodist-like destinations on top of yacdest in his branch
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14:58*andythenorth is suddenly a milk tycoon
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: btw, have you seen my patch yet?
15:02<andythenorth>I saw the ticket, haven't tested yet
15:04<+michi_cc>Any YACD bug report out there which I forgot and haven't said anything about a fix yet?
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: handling of industries with lots of destinations but very low output needs some improvement
15:06<andythenorth>michi_cc: not bug reports, but game balance feedback...
15:07-!-zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: and enforcing each industry have at least two incoming sources
15:07-!-zachanima [~zach@2506ds3-od.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd
15:08<+michi_cc>1.2 will split a cargo packet over 5 units into two chunks and over 50 into four chunks, that seems to help. (For FIRS supplies lower limits might be even better, but I don't want to span too many cargo packets.)
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15:09<+michi_cc>I'm not sure if two incoming sources are such a good idea, as it will cause many links from supply industries if there are only a few of them.
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15:15<andythenorth>michi_cc: industries requiring multiple input cargos is a hard problem
15:16<andythenorth>I thought maybe industry sets should change to support YACD
15:16<+michi_cc>Would probably need NewGRF extensions though, as NewGRFs can do almost anything in the production callback.
15:17<andythenorth>currently FIRS is partially broken by YACD
15:17<@Yexo>it'd probably require the same information that AIs are currently missing
15:17<andythenorth>I don't see how YACD can (or should) support FIRS, but I seemed to be arguing against general view
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15:27<@planetmaker>andythenorth: for the same reason as many e.g. also the more height level patch needs to support it: a new patch must not break perfect valid NewGRF
15:28<andythenorth>I was thinking about it. I guess I have a different take on it
15:28<@planetmaker>this game builds on maintaining backward compatibility. Not by all means. But making an honest effort to do so
15:28<andythenorth>brb
15:28<@planetmaker>without this, we couldn't expect people to take it seriously, if they can't rely on that
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>who is the responsible administrator for dev.openttcop.org? i get "internal error" every time i post a comment
15:33<andythenorth>I don't argue against backward compatibility
15:34<andythenorth>but changing the economy is quite substantial
15:34<@planetmaker>any particular issue / bug you try to comment?
15:34<andythenorth>an industry set tailored to one economy might just not work with another economy
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2414 <-- the comment gets through, though
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15:34<andythenorth>if you force the economy to be static to support existing sets, then it can't be changed :o
15:36<andythenorth>in the case of FIRS, in default economy it tries to encourage / enforce certain cargo delivery choices by player
15:37<andythenorth>but in YACD, player can't make those choices, YACD makes them
15:37<andythenorth>who should change?
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>YACDest should change
15:40<andythenorth>I don't see how it can
15:41<andythenorth>but maybe I miss an option
15:41<andythenorth>so we tell it:
15:41<andythenorth>(a) please ensure that cargo amounts to each destination aren't small
15:41<andythenorth>(b) please ensure that every industry that requires n cargos gets a delivery of n cargos
15:42<andythenorth>square != circle
15:43<andythenorth>unless we have cargo 'loaves' and cargo 'fishes', for those who had that parable on regular-repeat in school
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>what?
15:51<andythenorth>there is one problem discussed with YACD: make sure the cargo amounts to each destination are enough to make money
15:52<andythenorth>and the other problem: make sure industries with multiple input cargos get supplied
15:52<andythenorth>I can't see how to reconcile those goals
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>but: the supplies are not supposed to make money, they are supposed to increase your economy
15:52<andythenorth>ah
15:52<andythenorth>this wasn't about supplies specifically ;)
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>but my actual question was: what parable?
15:53<andythenorth>feeding the 40 thousand ;)
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>don't think i heard that one
15:53<andythenorth>five thousand /s
15:54*andythenorth did not pay much attention to school
15:54<andythenorth>http://atheism.about.com/od/biblegospelofmark/a/mark06d.htm
15:55<+michi_cc>Anything else for YACD I missed or forgot?
15:56*andythenorth would like a newgrf cb or action 0 to specify whether YACD applies to a cargo
15:56<andythenorth>but that's a bit premature
15:56<andythenorth>and might be un-needed
16:01<andythenorth>michi_cc: I have one query
16:01<andythenorth>I have an industry producing food with 7 possible destinations shown
16:02<andythenorth>for any given delivery, nearly all production seems to go to 1 of the 7
16:02<andythenorth>which destination is chosen seems to be on a random or (round-robin?) basis
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16:03<andythenorth>only one of the destinations has a valid route to it
16:04<andythenorth>I though YACD would favour the destination with a link?
16:04<@planetmaker>why should it?
16:04<+michi_cc>It's a weighted random, where the weight is determined by waiting cargo at the destination and production of the destination. So if you only actively service one industry, that one likely has a higher weight.
16:04<@planetmaker>hm... :-)
16:04<+michi_cc>Whereas service here does not mean transport from that specific source to the destination, just production in general.
16:05<andythenorth>michi_cc: in this case the destination is a black-hole industry
16:05<andythenorth>i.e. accept-only
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16:06<+michi_cc>Nevertheless, 1.2 should distribute the cargo of industries better.
16:07<+michi_cc>Black-hole industry is actually penalized unless it falls into the "nearby industry" bucket.
16:07<andythenorth>I can see why
16:08<andythenorth>although it's another problem for FIRS - which relies on industries as destinations for town cargos
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16:08<+michi_cc>If there are only black-hole industries the penalty doesn't matter.
16:08<andythenorth>although in that case all the destinations are black hole, so maybe the penalty has no net effect
16:09<+michi_cc>Only the relative weight is important, not the absolute value.
16:10<andythenorth>makes sense
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16:32<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/smallmap_yacd.png
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>interesting. but throughput isn't the most important value to spot bottlenecks
16:35<+michi_cc>Line width is based on cargo waiting on that link.
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>CargoDist also has a main-viewport-overlay
16:37-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.76.207] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: but e.g. the ship link has fairly wide line, but no capacity problem at all
16:38<@Terkhen>it would be useful to show the amount of cargo that wants to go to a certain location, regardless of it is being transported or not
16:38<andythenorth>stacked bars, by colour?
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16:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: cargodist had that, but it's obstructing the minimap-view too much
16:39<andythenorth>put it on the real map :P
16:40<@Terkhen>IIRC cargodist was trying that too
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is that YACDest probably does not have as much link-statistics available as CargoDist
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16:44<Eddi|zuHause>the source-destination map may be interesting, not only the link map
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>especially to find unconnected industries
16:45<@Terkhen>or good towns to add to your network
16:45<andythenorth>source-destination would be most helpful
16:46*andythenorth resolves to fly lumber and steel everywhere :)
16:47<andythenorth>as YACD is picking destinations 400 tiles away :P
16:47<andythenorth>or I could flatten the delay penalties for cargo in FIRS :)
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>there's another road-vehicle-spacing bug outside the scope of HEQS
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>the collision detection seems to always check the full bounding box, ignoring shortened vehicles
16:50<Rubidium>yeah... lovely, ain't it?
16:50<Rubidium>but really fixing that breaks way more :(
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>so my HEQS patch helps a little, but not completely
16:50<andythenorth>ho
16:51*andythenorth tries running large trains, with many mixed cargos
16:51<andythenorth>from one side of map to other
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: what exactly breaks there?
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16:57<andythenorth>bed times
16:57<andythenorth>good night
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16:57<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22428 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Reduce code duplication in the smallmap legend.
17:02<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: changing bounding boxes -> changing the center of vehicles -> changing the moment they turn / changing the offset at which they are drawn -> big mess
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: yes, but a) that also solves lots of things, and b) what about just changing the collision detection, not the bounding box?
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17:13<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22429 /trunk/src/ (21 files in 4 dirs): -Add: some constants for specific palette colours used in the GUI.
17:14<compi>somebody know why i can't connect to a server? everytime when i connect i can see Autorisieren... and then i see the start screen
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17:16<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: collision detection works from the center of the objects
17:17<Zuu>compi: are you on wireless?
17:17<compi>yep
17:17<Zuu>could be high packet loss.
17:17<compi>oh ok i test it with my cable
17:17<compi>thx for the advice
17:18-!-compsport [~compi@90.153.40.46] has joined #openttd
17:19<compsport>Zuu: same problem
17:19<Zuu>router/firewall problem?
17:19-!-Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
17:19<compsport>My buddy is also in my network and he is on the server
17:21<Zuu>Does not technically say anything regarding if the problem lays in your firewall.
17:21-!-Absurd-Mind [~peter@p5495916C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:21<Zuu>Though, it could be pretty much anything.
17:22<compsport>last week i played from the same place on the same server
17:22<compsport>damn
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17:34<marius>Evening, trying to setup aan OTTD server for me and some friends but keep hitting the "Failed to find raphics set" error when I try running it (it's supposed to run on a non-GUI debian 6.0 server)
17:34<Wolf03>you need the data files too
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17:35<marius>I see, where would one obtain said data files, they werne't mentioned in the install wiki page
17:36<Rubidium>they're mentioned in the readme
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>the download page has links to opengfx etc.
17:36<marius>Aha, those! Thanks =)
17:36<Wolf03>or just use the client's ones
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17:38<marius>Do I need all 3 (GFX, SFX and MSX), or jsut the GFX one?
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>only GFX is essential
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17:41<marius>ALl right, thank you very much
17:42<@Terkhen>good night
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18:00<supermop>any germans on?
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18:04<yorick>supermop: Eddi|zuHause
18:04<yorick>(he's always on)
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18:09<ChoHag_>I have a little village here with 73% of the population waiting for a bus.
18:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22430 /trunk/src/table/ (build_industry.h cargo_const.h): -Fix: COAL, RUBR, SUGR and the coalmine used windows palette colours in smallmap/legends etc..
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18:17<CIA-1>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22431 /trunk/src/network/core/tcp_content.cpp: -Fix (r22399): NETWORK_RECV_STATUS_MALFORMED_PACKET != false.
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18:51<Eddi|zuHause>in roadveh_cmd.cpp:1091: v->cur_speed = u->First()->cur_speed; <-- shouldn't that be min(v, u)?
18:53<Eddi|zuHause>(same thing repeated in 1202)
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19:16<ccfreak2k>Why would it be?
19:21<Wolf03>'night
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19:32<Zuu>Hmm, it seems there is no (legal) free compiler to compile OpenTTDAU.
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19:33<Zuu>Unless you have Turbo Delphi 2006 installed since before they took down that free version.
19:42<Chris_Booth> Zuu yes I see that issue. I have been looking for a torrent to Turbo Delphi 2006, but with no luck
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19:43<Chris_Booth>there is a free trail offered but not sure what they are going to cut out of that version
19:43<frosch123>did you try porting to lazarus?
19:43<Zuu>I did try downloading lazarus and compiling with it.
19:43<Zuu>However it complained on my procedures within records.
19:43<Zuu>A feature that was added around year 2005 or so.
19:43<frosch123>delphi is dead, no use in trying to find some old version
19:44<frosch123>procedures within records?
19:44<Zuu>Embarcadero still develops Delphi.
19:44<frosch123>just replace "record" with "object" ?
19:44<Zuu>Records and Classes uses totaly different memory allocation method.
19:44<frosch123>class allocate memory, objects do not
19:44<Zuu>Records are assigned by value, while classes are assigned by reference.
19:44<frosch123>what are records with procedures then?
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19:45<frosch123>yes exactly, that is the difference between "object" and "class"
19:45<frosch123>at least that was the difference up to delphi 5
19:46<frosch123>did they remove "object" and reintroduce it as "record"-feature? :p
19:46<Zuu>possible
19:46<Zuu>I haven't used Delphi 5.
19:46<Zuu>Or anything older.
19:46<Zuu>My first contact with Delphi was in 2007.
19:46<frosch123>ok, explains why you do not consider delphi "dead" :p
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19:47<Zuu>Hehe :-)
19:48<frosch123>from my pov dephi was best around 5, turned into a mess around 7 (also due to kylix), and was totally ususable after 7
19:48<frosch123>:p
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19:49<frosch123>anyway, since lazarus follows dephi 2&5, i would just try to replace "record" with "object"
19:49<Chris_Booth>maybe I will look at making a C# or C++ clone of ottdau 2
19:49<frosch123>yup, moving to a different language is the other alternative :p
19:50<frosch123>but don't tell belugas :)
19:50<Zuu>hehe :-p
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19:55<Zuu>Chris_Booth: As far as the 2009/2010/2011 or whatever the last Delphi version is can compile the code, I think the 30 day trial will work.
19:55<Chris_Booth>lol nice I get the same message twice I assume Zuu?
19:55<Zuu>I have heard though that there is a problem when you have a very recent Delphi version that uses Unicode strings to make it read/write binary files produced by older Delphi programs.
19:56<Zuu>twice?
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20:10<Eddi|zuHause>i think my first contact with delphi was 1997-ish
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure it was delphi 2
20:13<frosch123>date would fit
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>i was familiar with borland pascal 7 for a while already back then
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>1993? 1994?
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>where stuff came on 13-ish diskettes :p
20:15<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22432 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Simplify smallmap colour constants using some more specialised macros.
20:16<frosch123>don't miss the "bonus disk"
20:16<frosch123>which was the best of all
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>not sure i remember that
20:16<frosch123>borland pascal 7 was the first version to include the rtl source
20:17<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i'm fairly sure i never touched any of that
20:17<frosch123>turbo pascal did not have any public rtl sources
20:23<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22433 /trunk/src/ (gfx_func.h smallmap_gui.cpp): -Add/Fix: Add constants for the palette colours used in the smallmap and fix some windows palette indices.
20:25<Eddi|zuHause>i also used delphi 6 later
20:33<frosch123>night
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22:57<Eddi|zuHause>i think roadveh_cmd.cpp:569:EnumCheckRoadVehClose must be adapted for the shorter vehicle thing to work correctly
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---Logclosed Sat May 07 00:00:25 2011