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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-05-16

---Logopened Mon May 16 00:00:50 2011
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04:17<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:39<bobingabout>Good morning all
04:48<bobingabout>is anyone here?
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04:48<@Yexo>good morning, and yes
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04:49<bobingabout>Ah, hello.
04:50<bobingabout>Anyway, I am needing some assistance with programming in general, but I have no idea where i should look... so i came here, because i used to be on the forums a lot
04:51<bobingabout>I learned some Borland turbo C++ years ago... and well, it just doesn't cut it for what i want to do
04:51<bobingabout>moving over to something more modern is a lot more difficult than i thought it would be
04:53<@peter1138>are you stuck on the environment or the language?
04:53<@peter1138>the environment is just a glorified text editor...
04:53<@peter1138>the language is the language
04:54<bobingabout>okay, i'll say mostly the language
04:55<@peter1138>well the language hasn't really changed much
04:55<bobingabout>I have MSVC++ Enterprise 2008
04:55<bobingabout>I just looked up a tutorial, and instead of printf(""); etc it was using cout << "";
04:55<bobingabout>i was like... huh?
04:55<@peter1138>printf is c
04:55<@peter1138>cout is c++
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04:56<bobingabout>maybe i should be using C then
04:56<@peter1138>printf will work in c++, mind you
04:56<bobingabout>so a C++ compiler will have no problem compiling a C program?
04:57<bobingabout>I sound like an idiot don't I? X.X
04:58<@peter1138>no, just unknowledgable
04:59<bobingabout>should i start with some specific questions that are bothing me?
04:59<@peter1138>probably :)
05:00<bobingabout>okay, firstly, this is my first "big" program i've ever written, so much so that i discovered that there is a 65536 instruction limit to 16bit, i should've guessed this anyway
05:01<bobingabout>this 65536 limit being one of the reasons why i need to move to something better
05:01<bobingabout>anyway, as such, it is the first program i've written that is multi-file
05:02<bobingabout>what goes where is my biggest question. obviously i should make a file that says somthing like "Map.cpp" and anything to do with the map goes in there, but what i need is help with how to do it properly
05:03<bobingabout>currently, i just have map.c for example, then #include map.c in my main program file
05:03<bobingabout>is there a better way to do this?
05:04<bobingabout>i mean, i have to have all my includes in a specific order so not to break anything
05:05<bobingabout>yes, there is a project file that includes multiple files, to actually make it work how it is now i basicly had to tell the project to only compile the main file
05:06<bobingabout>the thing with guides is, you can't ask questions <.>
05:08<bobingabout>i read a guide that says i should put certain parts in a .h file, however, i just can't get that to work for me, i'm probably doing it wrong, so... how would you do it?
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05:18<bobingabout>is it perhaps too early in the morning? i could come back later
05:18<Ammler>or try #c++
05:19<bobingabout>or someone point me in the right direction X) thanks
05:21<bobingabout>there's like... 1 person in there!
05:22<bobingabout>i'll try later, thanks anyway
05:22<bobingabout>Atleast i have another question to ask... C or C++
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05:39<Eddi|zuHause>might have told him that #c++ is probably on freenode :p
05:39<Noldo_>IRCnet has one too
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05:46<Eddi|zuHause>#c++ on quakenet might be fun :p
05:48<Noldo_>sure thing
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05:56<@peter1138>i think they'd find his questions a bit... well, "read your book" type...
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06:09<Eddi|zuHause>i never found "read a book" get me anywhere...
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>i need to watch someone do it and then i can recreate the steps easily
06:11<Eddi|zuHause>back to topic: i never get to transport town goods like mail or food, just because passengers already overcrowd any town network...
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06:35<@planetmaker>good day
06:44<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, maybe you need to be using 3 tile long trains... :S
06:54<@peter1138>snakes on a rail
06:54<@peter1138>damn it
06:54<@peter1138>i tried to scroll it :(
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>hehe :p
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07:07<Eddi|zuHause>didn't they already announce that a few weeks ago?
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>or is that a follow-up
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07:09<__ln__>a few weeks ago the recorders were retrieved from water, but it was unknown if their data was readable
07:35<Eddi|zuHause>,%205.%20Nov%201988.png <-- giant screenshot (12MB)
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08:04<Eddi|zuHause>so... small-village-next-to-big-city is refusing airport... :(
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08:14<@planetmaker>it's realistic!
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08:33<Eddi|zuHause>the land info tool could display the allowed noise level here...
08:34<@planetmaker>a patch, a patch!
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08:43<@planetmaker>heffer, you're responsible for the Debian port, are you?
08:44<@planetmaker>I'm thinking of adding gimp to the build requirements to the base set.
08:44<@planetmaker>auto-generating the pngs from the layered sources
08:44<@planetmaker>The question is: mandatory requirement or optional one (i.e. like one can re-build the openttd.grf for OpenTTD itself, but one needs not that capability)
08:45<Noldo_>have you checked if something like imagemagick could do it?
08:46<Noldo_>is it something like this that is needed?
08:46<@planetmaker>I've no idea how to extract a group of layers from both xcf and psd images with image magic
08:48<@planetmaker>Noldo_, I experimented with imagemagick a bit... telling it to keep or convert palettes correctly is and was rather a big pain
08:49<@planetmaker>and gimp also has a batch mode, so it's not like you need its gui front-end ;-)
08:50<@planetmaker>gimp -i -b - < gimpscript2
08:50<@planetmaker> ^^ all I need ;-)
08:50<@planetmaker> <-- and that ;-)
08:52<Noldo_>the syntaxt on that language reminds me of lisp
08:52<@planetmaker>thus it has the big advantage of "works already" - and would in principle also allow to do much more advanced scripting than just saving a few layers
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: heffer is the redhat/fedora guy, isn't he?
08:52<@planetmaker>the gimp script language is derived from lisp, yes
08:52<Noldo_>well, or atleast the numver of parenthesis does
08:52<@planetmaker>ah, yes, might be Eddi|zuHause
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08:53<@planetmaker>then I should also bother blathijs about what he thinks of adding gimp as a build requirement to the opengfx base package - and whether mandatory or optional
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09:16<@Belugas>strange to say, but... feels good to be back to work...
09:16<@Belugas>no more physical work for the next 5 days
09:18<Noldo_>what kind of physical work did you have to do then?
09:18<@Belugas>rebuilding the basement, at home
09:19<@Belugas>plus gardening, under wife's directives, of course :)
09:19<Noldo_>the "projects" seem to pile up when ever you are off from work, don't they?
09:20<@Belugas>Well.. the basement reconstruction started back in december
09:20<@Belugas>so it's just yet another step
09:20<@Belugas>and it's gettnig near the end. i hope all will be finished for july
09:25<@planetmaker>salut Belugas
09:25<@peter1138>mais oui
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09:30<@Belugas>salut planetmaker :) et a toi aussi, peter1138
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10:01<Eddi|zuHause>there's a bug with airplanes
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>when an airplane is in a waiting pattern, it reduces speed, but when you skip orders at that point, it doesn't pick up speed anymore
10:06<Chris_Booth>planetmaker what about win or osx planetmaker?
10:06<Chris_Booth>would then need gimp to build opentgfx?
10:10<@Terkhen>I guess so
10:13<@planetmaker>Chris_Booth, you can take one guess on which systems gimp is available
10:14<Chris_Booth>I know gimp planetmaker
10:14<@planetmaker>well, where do you see the issue then?
10:15<dihedral>uh uh uh - pick me, pick me, i know i know ....
10:16*planetmaker suspects layer 8 :-P
10:17<@planetmaker>Chris_Booth, fyi: I developed that script on osx
10:17<Chris_Booth>i know gimp planetmaker but why should to have to download gimp to build opengfx?
10:18<@planetmaker>because otherwise you don't have means to generate the pngs?
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10:18<@planetmaker>why would it need gcc? right. Because you otherwise don't have means to generate the nfos
10:19<dihedral>* planetmaker suspects layer 8 :-P <- hehe
10:19<@Terkhen>it also needs bash and Make
10:20<@peter1138>crap, i forgot to disable AIs :S
10:20<@peter1138>how can i remove an AI company?
10:20<@planetmaker>peter1138, stop_ai is your friend
10:21<@peter1138>couple of stray roads left but no major damage yet
10:21<Chris_Booth>I just don't like gimp, so my view is bias planetmaker
10:21<@planetmaker>Chris_Booth, you don't have to use it. You just need to have it
10:22<@planetmaker>it is convenient as it has powerful scripting language for graphics processing
10:22<Chris_Booth>and its free
10:23<@planetmaker>it does NOT mean you have to use it to create graphics
10:23<@planetmaker>But it means that I'll from now on will prefer layered photoshop or gimp files as source ;-)
10:23<@planetmaker>for where it makes sense
10:27<@planetmaker>it 'simply' is means to save much repetitive work, like creating graphics for different ground tiles. Or generating a snowy and non-snowy version of trees, ...
10:29<Chris_Booth>thats a realy good idea
10:29<@Terkhen>or about 80 truck sprites
10:29<Chris_Booth>same with train wagons
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10:29<Chris_Booth>or liveries
10:29<Chris_Booth>sort all livers for a train in 1 png
10:30<ndujoe1>just found this game the net, enjoy it much
10:31<@Terkhen>hi ndujoe1
10:31<ndujoe1>will take me awhile to get up to speed, but intriguing scenarios and simulations.
10:32<ndujoe1>i use it from the Puppylinux distribution
10:33<@Terkhen>which version of OpenTTD does it have?
10:33<ndujoe1>hold on I will look at the number brb
10:34<@Terkhen>don't worry it is just curiosity :)
10:35<ndujoe1>it says 22274 i686
10:35<@peter1138>hmm, yacd's tendancy to send freight across the map instead of locally is annoying
10:37<ndujoe1>must be a complex code to manage all of the interfaces and interactions, written in C++ I presume?
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10:37<@Terkhen>peter1138: I tried yacd with cargo twice and failed... I'm thinking on enabling it only for passengers, mail, goods and foods next time
10:37<@Terkhen>ndujoe1: C++, yes
10:38<ndujoe1>it is similar to LInCity NG I thought
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10:42<+michi_cc>peter1138: What's local to you?
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10:44<+michi_cc>peter1138: economy.cargodest.ind_nearby_dist in tiles^2 (and scaled by 1D map size) controls what is still nearby. And if you change economy.cargodest.ind_chances to "100,100,100" (no possible via the in-game console though), only local destinations will be used if possible.
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10:53<@peter1138>well, local as in "industries that are closer than the industries that yacd has chosen"
10:54<@peter1138>like 60 tiles away instead of 360...
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11:05<ndujoe1>question: is there a generalized multiplayer set whereby one can watch game play to see how it is done without bothering the players online?
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11:06<TWerkhoven>join as a spectator i would say
11:06<Chris_Booth>ndujoe1 yes join as spectator
11:07<ndujoe1>in multiplay games do you usually work as a team in a company or individually just wondering?
11:08<@Terkhen>depends, some servers are competitive, others cooperative
11:08<ndujoe1>ic I will learn as a go along :) thanks.
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11:12<@planetmaker>yep, joining as spectator is the usual thing
11:12<@planetmaker>on the other hand: if you join a MP server, you can just as well found a company and try yourself usually
11:12<@planetmaker>except there where cooperative play is asked for ;-)
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11:14<Chris_Booth>planetmaker is there a way to map map edge bigger, like 50 tiles for example?
11:14<Chris_Booth>so I could effectivly make a 400^2 map from a 512^2?
11:15<@planetmaker>not that I know.
11:15<@Yexo>not without changing the source code
11:16<Rubidium>voiding the lot probably does the trick
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11:25<Eddi|zuHause>shouldn't a hacked scenario suffice?
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11:25<Chris_Booth>Eddi|zuHause how would I hack one?
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>decompress and use hex editor? :p
11:26<Chris_Booth>I just want a 400^2 map to play in r22375
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>you can produce uncompressed savegames by setting an option in the .cfg
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11:28<Chris_Booth>Eddi|zuHause would that be: savegame_format = ?
11:28<Chris_Booth>set that to decmopress?
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>"none" or somesuch
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11:31<ChoHag>Why does the clients column in multiplayer have 2 sets of numbers?
11:32<@Yexo>their client-id and the company they're part of
11:32<@Yexo>try "help clients" int he console
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11:33<ChoHag>No, in the list of multiplayer servers.
11:33<@Yexo>first is current/maximum players, second set is current/maximum companies
11:34<@Yexo>should be two different columns
11:34<ChoHag>Ah right.
11:38<Chris_Booth>Eddi|zuHause if I use decompressed saves then use what to red the .sav file?
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>i already said that
11:39<Chris_Booth>hex editor
11:40<@Yexo>changing the code would be a lot easier
11:41<Chris_Booth>hhm hex editor is just a huge amount of meaning less number now
11:43<@Terkhen>I don't think there is a way to hack the savegame to get map sizes that are not a power of two, IIRC the size is actually stored as the exponent
11:43<@Yexo>it is, but you could mark a lot of tiles as MP_VOID
11:43<@Yexo>which might or might not work correctly
11:44<Chris_Booth>is there anyway I can just get water_borders = 16(which is max) to equal 50?
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11:44<@Terkhen>that would be an easy code hack
11:44<@Yexo>what? you want 16 to equal 50?
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11:45<@Yexo>the game setting water_borders is a bitset of borders that are water
11:45<Rubidium>isn't water_borders a bitset of the edges that have a watery border and which don't?
11:45<@Yexo>it has nothing to do with the amount of water around the map, so 50 wouldn't make sense at all
11:46<Chris_Booth>aaah I thought it as was a tile count not a bitset
11:51<@Terkhen>there must be a constant for that somewhere in the code (maybe in map generation); you could increase it
11:55<Chris_Booth>I give up on hex editor Eddi|zuHause its just a huge about of random data which I can't read
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11:55<Chris_Booth>its all seems to be either p or `
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12:39*peter1138 ponders running a YACD server
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12:45<ChoHag>My goods train are stuck in the station.
12:45<ChoHag>Oh never mind.
12:45<ChoHag>Told them to full load.
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12:46<@peter1138>okay, yacd_2.2 server :D
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12:50<Ammler>I don't think, yacd is playable for MP, coop only :-)
12:50<Ammler>or it needs IS
12:50<Ammler>(playable for multiple companies)
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12:56<@peter1138>lack of IS doesn't mean it's not playable
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12:56<Ammler>of course not
12:56<Ammler>just my personal opinion
12:57<Chris_Booth>it may make an interesting game
12:57<Chris_Booth>you would get real industry comeptition
12:57<Ammler>well, there are severs up, try it :-P
12:57<Chris_Booth>Ammler I can't play 4 openttd games at once
12:57<Ammler>yacd is completely MP stable
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12:59<Chris_Booth>would YACD work is IS2? if I where to merge then?
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12:59<@peter1138>i doubt it would be a simple merge, but theoretically there's no problem
12:59<@peter1138>other than the payment rates issue...
13:00<Ammler>no need, first yacd then think about next step :-P
13:09<@peter1138>woo, making money
13:14<@peter1138>not much, mind you
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13:29<@peter1138>didn't enable it in the options :p
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r22470 /trunk/src/lang/ (luxembourgish.txt romanian.txt):
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 8 changes by Phreeze
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: romanian - 2 changes by kkmic
13:53<@peter1138>oh god
13:53<@peter1138>horrible drawback of not using newgrfs
13:53<@peter1138>coal trains that go 80mph on the back of a passenger loco :S
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14:02-!-Mucht is "Martin Nussbaumer" on @#coopetition @#JJ @+#openttdcoop.association #wwottdgd #openttd @#openttdcoop
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14:35<@planetmaker>hi andythenorth
14:35<@planetmaker>andythenorth, would it be usable to you to use psd files as source?
14:35<andythenorth>for me, yes?
14:35<andythenorth>for others....not sure
14:35<@planetmaker>even if it would mean to (also) install gimp?
14:37<andythenorth>well I've been using psd as source since I started using a repo
14:37<andythenorth>the alternatives are impractical for me
14:37<@planetmaker>I mean really as source as in the makefile converts it for you into the pngs, and you just define the layers which shall be used for that png
14:38<andythenorth>that would be even better - I have contemplated scripting that in photoshop for FIRS before now
14:38<@planetmaker>I've scripted it for gimp. And it can read psd
14:38<andythenorth>why the question?
14:39<@planetmaker>and we know how to teach the CF its use, too ;-)
14:39<@planetmaker>I'm now implementing it into the makefile(s), but that's working in a preliminary way already, too
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14:44<andythenorth>planetmaker: do you coop guys base network design on methodologies, or do you do it by trial-and-error?
14:44<@planetmaker>in what context?
14:45<@planetmaker>when building rail tracks?
14:45<andythenorth>yes. some of the tactics you use seem to be similar to lean practices
14:45<@planetmaker>It depends on the person probably who suggests the plan to follow for that game
14:47<@planetmaker>well... one person working on one thing is the logical thing, isn't it?
14:47<@planetmaker>economics of course have to re-discover it and coin a nice buzz-word for it :-P
14:49<@planetmaker>but probably I didn't quite grasp that concept yet. So... what is it about - and why does coop seem to use it?
14:49<andythenorth>I've seen some coop games with very short trains
14:51<andythenorth>basically that's using one-piece flow for delivery, rather than large batch delivery
14:52<andythenorth>nvm if it's not obvious - just my day job intruding :)
14:52<@planetmaker>ah. Well. I guess it's a matter of what takes our fancy. Limited by map size and terrain
14:52<@planetmaker>Too long trains make for HUGE junctions etc without actually adding fun. And more trains are more fun, too
14:53<@peter1138>hmm, well
14:53<@peter1138>if you do the whole "realism" thing... ;)
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14:53<@peter1138>then most junctions are at stations
14:54<@peter1138>simple bit of pbs suffices :)
14:54<@planetmaker>then yes. And I sometimes do that in my own games. But on the coop maps... hardly :-)
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15:20<@SmatZ>@seen Zuu
15:20<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 30 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <Zuu> and though you were refering to some post at the forums.
15:21<Zuu>@seen Zuu
15:21<@DorpsGek>Zuu: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 30 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Zuu> and though you were refering to some post at the forums.
15:21<@SmatZ>hello Zuu :-)
15:21<@SmatZ>I haven't seen you talking for long time, so I wondered if you are still here
15:21<@SmatZ>but I just missed your comments, it seems :)
15:22<Zuu>I'm still here. I just havn't been here so much recently.
15:22<@SmatZ>same here, I am too busy & tired :(
15:23<Zuu>Got to "play" with transportation models at work anyway :-)
15:23-!-Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:23<@SmatZ>that's nice
15:24<Zuu>Last week I visited a traffic signal conference. That was fun. :-)
15:24<heffer>planetmaker: just saw your highlight. i'd be perfectly fine adding gimp to the BuildRequires from a Fedora standpoint ;) but i think we should test this first
15:25-!-NOUK [] has joined #openttd
15:26<@planetmaker>heffer, good to know :-)
15:26<Rubidium>I guess the main question is whether GIMP works without X
15:26<@planetmaker>we (Ammler) ran this afternoon a test with the opensuse build services - which showed that it works fine
15:27<heffer>okay. then our koji builder should be fine too
15:27<heffer>what about checksums? i believe they might be different for each distro then, depending on which signatures gimp places into the files
15:28<@planetmaker>good question. I did not yet investigate that
15:28<Rubidium>the final pixels ought to be the same
15:28<ChoHag>I think I know why passengers in YACD keep losing me money.
15:28*Zuu wonders why he don't find a wordpress plugin to fix the rss-feed space problem using a filter function.
15:28<Rubidium>and those are what's use, right?
15:28<@planetmaker>also true :-)
15:29<@planetmaker>different png headers wouldn't matter indeed
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15:30<heffer>yes but there's nothing that would choke on different checksums?
15:30<heffer>if so, that'd be fine then :D
15:30-!-devilsadvocate [~quassel@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:30<@planetmaker>there should not be, unless the indexed palette would get screwed. Which would be a reason to drop it
15:31-!-garlet [] has joined #openttd
15:31<garlet>anyone on
15:31<garlet>: D
15:32-!-DOUK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:32<garlet>this is the irc for openttd right ?
15:32<@planetmaker>according to the name one might suspect so, yes
15:33<garlet>xD is there any virus in it ?
15:33<@planetmaker>yep. A quite viral virus
15:34<@planetmaker>Also known as "playing fun" ;-)
15:34<garlet>oooo \
15:34<garlet>: o ty but i am serious
15:35<@planetmaker>what answer do you expect?
15:35<garlet>after downloading it the next time i downloaded i got the black screen with movable cursor on my laptop...
15:35<heffer>garlet: no. no viruses in the official version from
15:35<garlet>D": so yeah i am worried
15:35-!-TWerkhoven2 is now known as TWerkhoven
15:36<garlet>can anyonehelp me with that D":
15:36<@planetmaker>not yet. We know neither version, nor OS, nor... anything else
15:37<@planetmaker>nor what constitutes "the next time I downloaded"
15:37<@planetmaker>if the next time you used download was from a dubious porn site, I'd worry about that more ;-)
15:37<garlet>lolz nah i don;t download porn xD
15:38<heffer>that's very comforting to know
15:38<garlet>but seriously can anyone help me D": or no where i can get help
15:39<@planetmaker>then help us and answer my questions
15:39<heffer>garlet: i assume it's not a virus but that there is something wrong with your setup
15:39<@SmatZ>I don't download porn either, I just watch it online :p
15:39<heffer>but based on your information an assumption is all you can expect
15:39<Rubidium>if there were a virus in OpenTTD, it must be an ancient one and it must have been in there for almost three years. You being the first to notice is extremely unlikely
15:40<SpComb>you don't dump malicious payloads into SVN
15:40<@planetmaker>andythenorth, <-- adopted for FIRS.
15:40<@SmatZ>garlet: 1) open window 2) take your notebook and throw it outside
15:40<@SmatZ>note that skipping step 1 will result in glass everywhere and broken window
15:40<garlet>D": seriously i got important things there
15:40<Rubidium>as such, it being in the binaries from the official site (I'm assuming you checked the checksums) is significantly less likely than a virus scanner that is incorrectly marking OpenTTD as having a virus
15:41<@planetmaker>that makes you value backups more then :-)
15:41<garlet>my backups failed
15:41<Rubidium>ofcourse, if you like many others, downloaded OpenTTD from a torrent site or something all bets are off
15:41<garlet>i downloaded from main site
15:42<ChoHag>Is michi_cc often around?
15:42<@SmatZ>"black screen with a cursor" is hardly a sign of nowadays' virus
15:42<@planetmaker>so... still the question is on: what version and OS do you use?
15:42<@SmatZ>rather broken video driver
15:42<garlet>i use w7
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15:42<@planetmaker>do you use a screen background changer or alike?
15:43<@planetmaker>they're known to cause interferences
15:43<garlet>u mean my background changes after a while?
15:43<garlet>YES : O
15:43<ChoHag>SmatZ: If you've ever fixed a computer for a person over the age of 40, you'll know that not quite working right, for any value of right, equals virus.
15:43<ChoHag>Every time somebody I do computer work for phones me up with a problem, they think it's a virus.
15:44<garlet>peacemaker plz keep going
15:44<@planetmaker>it's usually their fault, if things go wrong. As they hack the graphics card and don't let other programmes use it normally, especially in full screen.
15:44<garlet>but this came with compt...
15:44<@planetmaker>so try to disable that and try openttd again.
15:44<@SmatZ>ChoHag: actually, most of times I "fixed" someone's computer, it was full of virii :) I was wondering how they could work with that :)
15:44<garlet>i can;t get to it =--=
15:45<garlet>black screen with moveable mouse after start up
15:45<ChoHag>True, but rarely is it the viruses causing whatever they're actually suffering from.
15:45<@SmatZ>true :)
15:45<garlet>does anyone no any good tech support sites
15:46<ChoHag>That is invariably just a simple I D TEN T issue.
15:46<ChoHag>garlet: I hear is good.
15:46<ChoHag>Never used it myself.
15:46<@SmatZ>garlet: I have only one idea, try locating your openttd.cfg
15:47<@SmatZ>and set
15:47<@SmatZ>fullscreen = false
15:47<ChoHag>Doesn't alt-enter work?
15:47<@SmatZ>blitter = 32bpp-optimized
15:47<garlet>how i do that smatz
15:48<@SmatZ>win+s maybe opens a search window
15:48<garlet>command prompt?
15:48<@SmatZ>that window with a dog
15:48<@SmatZ>at least, it was a window with a dog in winXP
15:48<garlet>wha dog?
15:48<ChoHag>Dogs fetch things.
15:49<@SmatZ>search for openttd.cfg
15:49<@SmatZ>and open it in notepad
15:49<garlet>dude i can;t
15:50<garlet>when starting up my compt my is goes to black screen with a mouse and that it
15:50<garlet>even in safe mode
15:50<@SmatZ>so you are using different computer now, right?
15:50<@SmatZ>your computer is likely broken
15:51<@SmatZ>and it has nothing to do with openttd
15:51<ChoHag>Yeah sounds broken.
15:51<ChoHag>Reinstall windows.
15:51<garlet>how reinstall
15:51<@SmatZ>garlet: 1) open window 2) take your notebook and throw it outside
15:51<@SmatZ>3) buy new computer
15:51<ChoHag>Find your local geek or geek shop, hand over cash or cake, wait.
15:52<ChoHag>If the cake is good, they'll even keep your old data safe.
15:52<@SmatZ>you should indeed be able to find someone to do that for you
15:52<@SmatZ>hehe :)
15:52<andythenorth>get a mac
15:52<andythenorth>known to be virus free
15:52<garlet>mac sux for gaming
15:52<andythenorth>yeah, right
15:52<@Terkhen>cake is great
15:52<garlet>mac no virus free
15:52<ChoHag>s/for gaming//
15:52<@SmatZ>mmm reminds me of Portal 2
15:52*andythenorth invokes mac version of godwin's law and runs away
15:52<garlet>noone wants to hack it 2 much work for nothing
15:52<@Terkhen>most of the games I play have a mac version already
15:53<@Terkhen>I don't know how good their performance is compared to windows, though
15:53<andythenorth>there is an easy non-virus way to DoS mac users
15:53<andythenorth>post on mac sites that 'sudo rm -r *' makes safari run faster
15:53<@Terkhen>what, starting a flame about the latest iProduct?
15:54<andythenorth>good point
15:54*andythenorth has a beer
15:54*SmatZ has too
15:54<@Terkhen>thanks, my chocolate now sucks in comparison
15:54<Chris_Booth>lol beer watch is so much fun
15:55*andythenorth takes beer from SmatZ and hands him a Chris_Booth instead
15:55<Chris_Booth>that was so not worth the IRC ping :'(
15:55*SmatZ takes another one
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15:56<Chris_Booth>get him self a warm pint of guniess
15:57<ChoHag>Does anyone know much about the yacd source?
15:58<@Terkhen>michi_cc might have a clue or two
15:58<@SmatZ>hehe :)
15:58<ChoHag>Yeah but he doesn't seem to be around.
15:58<@Terkhen>now that he has been highlighted he will answer when he's here :)
15:59<ChoHag>I tried that earlier and he hasn't popped up.
15:59<ChoHag>I have bugs to fix dammit!
16:00<@SmatZ>ChoHag: maybe you can open a bugreport
16:00<ChoHag>I couldn't find anywhere to do that.
16:00<+michi_cc>ChoHag: How about you ask a real question I can answer? :)
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16:01<ChoHag>How can I stop cargo trying to route back to its originating station?
16:02<ChoHag>See my two posts on the yacd 2.2 thread by way of example.
16:02<andythenorth>ChoHag: it shouldn't be doing that :)
16:02<ChoHag>No indeed.
16:02<+michi_cc>By lowering the compile-time constant CYapfCostRouteLinkT::LOCAL_PENALTY_FACTOR or by waiting on me for the next release.
16:03<ChoHag>Will I have to wait long? I've got a good game going except for my passenger routes.
16:05<+michi_cc>No idea, depends on what else crops up.
16:05<+michi_cc>Do check first though if all settings are at the default values.
16:05<ChoHag>Is my theory correct? People want to go from one house to another, both within the cachement area of the same station?
16:06<ChoHag>I'm only able to go on how I think openttd (and yacd) might work as I've not really done much diving into the code yet at all.
16:08<ChoHag>But with an idea to go on I will at least have an aim in mind in my poking around.
16:09<+michi_cc>The source and destination tile can be inside the catchment of the same station, but travel back to the same station is strongly discouraged. You might have hit an edge case that requires some tuning of the settings or you simply didn't change some setting when the default changed.
16:10<ChoHag>2.2 is the only yacd I've played.
16:10<ChoHag>I did play other cargodists though.
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16:10<+michi_cc>That is pf.yapf.route_* (which should not have been used anywhere outside YACD)
16:12<ChoHag>Is this defaults?
16:14<ChoHag>Also, doesn't it make sense to not allow source and destination to be inside the same station's area?
16:15<ChoHag>Unless they have other, closer stations (eg. I have 3 or 4 bus stops within walking distance of my house)
16:18<@peter1138>catchments can overlap
16:20<+michi_cc>The settings look alright (assuming that's what the save game actually uses).
16:28<andythenorth>whoever changed the train length display in depot view made the right call :)
16:30<@planetmaker>that's old news, but it was our green leaf frog
16:31<andythenorth>thought I'd mention it ;)
16:31<andythenorth>the default train length I am less enamoured with
16:36<andythenorth>michi_cc: bug reports for 1.3 are no longer valid?
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16:46<ChoHag>My wife is playing.
16:46<ChoHag>I don't know whether to be impressed or worried.
16:47<__ln__>ChoHag: voluntarely?
16:47<garlet>hows she doing
16:48<ChoHag>Sort of.
16:48<ChoHag>She said yesterday that she was bored and I suggested she could play that.
16:48<ChoHag>I didn't think she'd say yes.
16:49<__ln__>there aren't many documented cases of voluntary female players
16:50<garlet>i got 2
16:52<andythenorth>CHIPS cargo looks same as cargo at some FIRS industries
16:52<andythenorth>this may not be wise
16:55<garlet>I WANA PLAY SOOOO BAD!!!
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16:56<garlet>anyone willing to give tips on the game
16:58<@Belugas>i don't even give a tip to the barman...
16:58<@Belugas>time to go home, night!
16:59<ChoHag>Why can't you play it on whichever computer you're chatting?
16:59<garlet>this one has other things wrong with it
16:59<@Belugas>ho... another free tip, garlet: the wiki is far more verbose than the guys in this channel :)
16:59<garlet>: O
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17:00*Belugas is now gone
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17:05<@planetmaker>[22:52] andythenorth CHIPS cargo looks same as cargo at some FIRS industries <-- why not?
17:06<@planetmaker>it may even make sense
17:06<andythenorth>confuses me
17:06<andythenorth>I don't know whether cargo is waiting or not
17:06<andythenorth>looks nice though :P
17:07<@planetmaker>^ I'd consider it 'feature', not 'bug'
17:07<@planetmaker>'looks nice' is a good enough reason to keep it ;-)
17:08<andythenorth>as I have no better idea, it can stay ;)
17:08<@planetmaker>one idea might be 'not the same' but 'same style'. Like piles differently arranged or so
17:09<@planetmaker>then it is (somewhat) clear that it's not the industry, but it fits the same way nevertheless
17:09*planetmaker wonders about (gimp-2.6:14693): Gimp-Core-CRITICAL **: gimp_image_opened: assertion `GIMP_IS_GIMP (gimp)' failed
17:10<ChoHag>Your gimp escaped.
17:10<@planetmaker>:-) it works as it should. But complains
17:10<frosch123>we should also add such an error to ottd
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>hmm... i'm lacking the ability to filter vehicle lists by cargo type...
17:11<@Terkhen>wow :D
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>similar to the buy menu
17:12<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I just had exactly the same request :P
17:13<andythenorth>order by cargo capacity is fairly useless
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>yep, they all have the same :p
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17:13<@planetmaker>not quite, at least in buy menu
17:13<@planetmaker>buy frosch...
17:13<Zuu>Apart from being slow or getting GTK-problems, I never had any serious problems with GIMP.
17:13<@planetmaker>or bye ;-)
17:13<@planetmaker>damn similar words :S
17:14<Zuu>Oh, and the tablet problems..
17:14<@planetmaker>Zuu: it's not a problem. It's just a funky message...
17:14<@planetmaker>without apparent consequence. That's the odd thing
17:14-!-elmz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:15<Zuu>Interesting assertion by the way :-)
17:15-!-dfox [] has joined #openttd
17:15<@planetmaker>yep ;-)
17:24*andythenorth needs to stop playing YACD and ...go to sleep
17:24<ChoHag>andythenorth: Can you see if your yacd games have the same passenger routing problems mine do?
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>"ships getting old" is a weird concept...
17:25<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: why?
17:25<ChoHag>Ships exist outside time?
17:25<andythenorth>ChoHag: my yacd game is 1.3 and tracking where PAX go would be way to hard
17:25<ChoHag>Upgrade already!
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>my impression is that ships should have very long lifespans compared to trains or aircraft
17:26<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: FISH ones are quite long
17:26<@Terkhen>wasn't the last version 2.something?
17:26<andythenorth>my savegame is too nice
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, but i constantly get spammed with "ship is really old" messages after 50 years...
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>and i can't bother to replace them :p
17:27<andythenorth>turn off the message
17:27<andythenorth>turn on autoreplace
17:27<andythenorth>patch the grf
17:27<andythenorth>?? :)
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>i patched too many grfs already ;)
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>"track planning" is useless.
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17:44<@Terkhen>good night
17:44<@planetmaker>garlet: we cannot fix your computer(s), if you can't even start your OS. And speechless dots... won't help there either ;-)
17:44<@planetmaker>good night Terkhen
17:52<garlet>i was bored...
17:52<@planetmaker>a good reason to spam this channel with nonsense? I don't think so
17:52<garlet>: D y not
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18:41<Eddi|zuHause>hm... autoreplace not working.
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18:41<Eddi|zuHause>i have trains consisting of 4 times BR 515 (single units), and have ordered to replace them with BR 612 (double units)
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>and it says "train too long after replacement"
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>i guess "wagon removal" doesn't do "engine removal".
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18:59<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i think i just saw the "euro gets introduced" newspaper for the first time...
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19:15*Zuu will have to wait until the UK introduces euro bofore seeing that newspaper. (I always use pounds in my OpenTTD games)
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21:57*Eddi|zuHause just had to "reboot" his tram system in one city...
21:57<Eddi|zuHause>send all to depot, send one of each line to renew the timetable, then spread them out evenly by start date
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---Logclosed Tue May 17 00:00:52 2011