| --- | Log | opened Mon May 16 00:00:50 2011 |
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| 04:17 | <@Terkhen> | good morning |
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| 04:39 | <bobingabout> | Good morning all |
| 04:48 | <bobingabout> | is anyone here? |
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| 04:48 | <@Yexo> | good morning, and yes |
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| 04:49 | <bobingabout> | Ah, hello. |
| 04:50 | <bobingabout> | Anyway, I am needing some assistance with programming in general, but I have no idea where i should look... so i came here, because i used to be on the forums a lot |
| 04:51 | <@peter1138> | heh |
| 04:51 | <bobingabout> | I learned some Borland turbo C++ years ago... and well, it just doesn't cut it for what i want to do |
| 04:51 | <bobingabout> | moving over to something more modern is a lot more difficult than i thought it would be |
| 04:53 | <@peter1138> | are you stuck on the environment or the language? |
| 04:53 | <bobingabout> | both |
| 04:53 | <@peter1138> | the environment is just a glorified text editor... |
| 04:53 | <@peter1138> | the language is the language |
| 04:54 | <bobingabout> | okay, i'll say mostly the language |
| 04:55 | <@peter1138> | well the language hasn't really changed much |
| 04:55 | <bobingabout> | I have MSVC++ Enterprise 2008 |
| 04:55 | <bobingabout> | I just looked up a tutorial, and instead of printf(""); etc it was using cout << ""; |
| 04:55 | <bobingabout> | i was like... huh? |
| 04:55 | <@peter1138> | printf is c |
| 04:55 | <@peter1138> | cout is c++ |
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| 04:56 | <bobingabout> | maybe i should be using C then |
| 04:56 | <@peter1138> | printf will work in c++, mind you |
| 04:56 | <bobingabout> | so a C++ compiler will have no problem compiling a C program? |
| 04:57 | <bobingabout> | I sound like an idiot don't I? X.X |
| 04:58 | <@peter1138> | no, just unknowledgable |
| 04:59 | <bobingabout> | should i start with some specific questions that are bothing me? |
| 04:59 | <@peter1138> | probably :) |
| 05:00 | <bobingabout> | okay, firstly, this is my first "big" program i've ever written, so much so that i discovered that there is a 65536 instruction limit to 16bit, i should've guessed this anyway |
| 05:01 | <bobingabout> | this 65536 limit being one of the reasons why i need to move to something better |
| 05:01 | <bobingabout> | anyway, as such, it is the first program i've written that is multi-file |
| 05:02 | <bobingabout> | what goes where is my biggest question. obviously i should make a file that says somthing like "Map.cpp" and anything to do with the map goes in there, but what i need is help with how to do it properly |
| 05:03 | <bobingabout> | currently, i just have map.c for example, then #include map.c in my main program file |
| 05:03 | <bobingabout> | is there a better way to do this? |
| 05:04 | <bobingabout> | i mean, i have to have all my includes in a specific order so not to break anything |
| 05:05 | <bobingabout> | yes, there is a project file that includes multiple files, to actually make it work how it is now i basicly had to tell the project to only compile the main file |
| 05:06 | <bobingabout> | the thing with guides is, you can't ask questions <.> |
| 05:08 | <bobingabout> | i read a guide that says i should put certain parts in a .h file, however, i just can't get that to work for me, i'm probably doing it wrong, so... how would you do it? |
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| 05:14 | <bobingabout> | anyone? |
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| 05:18 | <bobingabout> | is it perhaps too early in the morning? i could come back later |
| 05:18 | <Ammler> | or try #c++ |
| 05:19 | <bobingabout> | or someone point me in the right direction X) thanks |
| 05:21 | <bobingabout> | there's like... 1 person in there! |
| 05:22 | <bobingabout> | i'll try later, thanks anyway |
| 05:22 | <bobingabout> | Atleast i have another question to ask... C or C++ |
| 05:23 | <bobingabout> | bye |
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| 05:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | might have told him that #c++ is probably on freenode :p |
| 05:39 | <Noldo_> | IRCnet has one too |
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| 05:46 | <Wolf01> | morning |
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| 05:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | #c++ on quakenet might be fun :p |
| 05:48 | <Noldo_> | sure thing |
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| 05:56 | <@peter1138> | i think they'd find his questions a bit... well, "read your book" type... |
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| 06:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i never found "read a book" get me anywhere... |
| 06:09 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i need to watch someone do it and then i can recreate the steps easily |
| 06:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | back to topic: i never get to transport town goods like mail or food, just because passengers already overcrowd any town network... |
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| 06:35 | <@planetmaker> | good day |
| 06:44 | <@peter1138> | Eddi|zuHause, maybe you need to be using 3 tile long trains... :S |
| 06:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2025.%20Jul%201988.png |
| 06:54 | <@peter1138> | snakes on a rail |
| 06:54 | <@peter1138> | damn it |
| 06:54 | <@peter1138> | i tried to scroll it :( |
| 06:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hehe :p |
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| 07:02 | <__ln__> | http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/16/us-france-brazil-crash-idUSTRE74F1WK20110516 |
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| 07:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | didn't they already announce that a few weeks ago? |
| 07:07 | <Eddi|zuHause> | or is that a follow-up |
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| 07:09 | <__ln__> | a few weeks ago the recorders were retrieved from water, but it was unknown if their data was readable |
| 07:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%205.%20Nov%201988.png <-- giant screenshot (12MB) |
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| 08:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so... small-village-next-to-big-city is refusing airport... :( |
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| 08:14 | <@planetmaker> | it's realistic! |
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| 08:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the land info tool could display the allowed noise level here... |
| 08:34 | <@planetmaker> | a patch, a patch! |
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| 08:43 | <@planetmaker> | heffer, you're responsible for the Debian port, are you? |
| 08:44 | <@planetmaker> | I'm thinking of adding gimp to the build requirements to the base set. |
| 08:44 | <@planetmaker> | auto-generating the pngs from the layered sources |
| 08:44 | <@planetmaker> | The question is: mandatory requirement or optional one (i.e. like one can re-build the openttd.grf for OpenTTD itself, but one needs not that capability) |
| 08:45 | <Noldo_> | have you checked if something like imagemagick could do it? |
| 08:46 | <Noldo_> | is it something like this that is needed? http://www.imagemagick.org/script/composite.php?ImageMagick=odgobg7bmodhklc4fap6pgcqe3 |
| 08:46 | <@planetmaker> | I've no idea how to extract a group of layers from both xcf and psd images with image magic |
| 08:48 | <@planetmaker> | Noldo_, I experimented with imagemagick a bit... telling it to keep or convert palettes correctly is and was rather a big pain |
| 08:48 | <Noldo_> | ok |
| 08:49 | <@planetmaker> | and gimp also has a batch mode, so it's not like you need its gui front-end ;-) |
| 08:49 | <Noldo_> | yeah |
| 08:50 | <@planetmaker> | gimp -i -b - < gimpscript2 |
| 08:50 | <@planetmaker> | ^^ all I need ;-) |
| 08:50 | <@planetmaker> | http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/gimpscript2 <-- and that ;-) |
| 08:52 | <Noldo_> | the syntaxt on that language reminds me of lisp |
| 08:52 | <@planetmaker> | thus it has the big advantage of "works already" - and would in principle also allow to do much more advanced scripting than just saving a few layers |
| 08:52 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: heffer is the redhat/fedora guy, isn't he? |
| 08:52 | <@planetmaker> | the gimp script language is derived from lisp, yes |
| 08:52 | <Noldo_> | well, or atleast the numver of parenthesis does |
| 08:52 | <@planetmaker> | ah, yes, might be Eddi|zuHause |
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| 08:53 | <@planetmaker> | then I should also bother blathijs about what he thinks of adding gimp as a build requirement to the opengfx base package - and whether mandatory or optional |
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| 09:15 | <@Belugas> | hello |
| 09:15 | <Noldo_> | o/ |
| 09:16 | <@Belugas> | strange to say, but... feels good to be back to work... |
| 09:16 | <@Belugas> | no more physical work for the next 5 days |
| 09:18 | <Noldo_> | what kind of physical work did you have to do then? |
| 09:18 | <@Belugas> | rebuilding the basement, at home |
| 09:19 | <@Belugas> | plus gardening, under wife's directives, of course :) |
| 09:19 | <Noldo_> | naturally |
| 09:19 | <Noldo_> | the "projects" seem to pile up when ever you are off from work, don't they? |
| 09:20 | <@Belugas> | Well.. the basement reconstruction started back in december |
| 09:20 | <@Belugas> | so it's just yet another step |
| 09:20 | <@Belugas> | and it's gettnig near the end. i hope all will be finished for july |
| 09:25 | <@planetmaker> | salut Belugas |
| 09:25 | <@peter1138> | mais oui |
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| 09:30 | <@Belugas> | salut planetmaker :) et a toi aussi, peter1138 |
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| 10:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there's a bug with airplanes |
| 10:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | when an airplane is in a waiting pattern, it reduces speed, but when you skip orders at that point, it doesn't pick up speed anymore |
| 10:06 | <Chris_Booth> | planetmaker what about win or osx planetmaker? |
| 10:06 | <Chris_Booth> | would then need gimp to build opentgfx? |
| 10:10 | <@Terkhen> | I guess so |
| 10:13 | <dihedral> | hello |
| 10:13 | <@planetmaker> | Chris_Booth, you can take one guess on which systems gimp is available |
| 10:14 | <Chris_Booth> | I know gimp planetmaker |
| 10:14 | <@planetmaker> | well, where do you see the issue then? |
| 10:15 | <dihedral> | uh uh uh - pick me, pick me, i know i know .... |
| 10:15 | <dihedral> | :-P |
| 10:15 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 10:16 | * | planetmaker suspects layer 8 :-P |
| 10:17 | <@planetmaker> | Chris_Booth, fyi: I developed that script on osx |
| 10:17 | <Chris_Booth> | i know gimp planetmaker but why should to have to download gimp to build opengfx? |
| 10:18 | <@planetmaker> | because otherwise you don't have means to generate the pngs? |
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| 10:18 | <@planetmaker> | why would it need gcc? right. Because you otherwise don't have means to generate the nfos |
| 10:19 | <dihedral> | * planetmaker suspects layer 8 :-P <- hehe |
| 10:19 | <@Terkhen> | it also needs bash and Make |
| 10:20 | <@peter1138> | crap, i forgot to disable AIs :S |
| 10:20 | <@peter1138> | how can i remove an AI company? |
| 10:20 | <@planetmaker> | peter1138, stop_ai is your friend |
| 10:20 | <@peter1138> | great |
| 10:21 | <@peter1138> | couple of stray roads left but no major damage yet |
| 10:21 | <Chris_Booth> | I just don't like gimp, so my view is bias planetmaker |
| 10:21 | <@planetmaker> | Chris_Booth, you don't have to use it. You just need to have it |
| 10:22 | <@planetmaker> | it is convenient as it has powerful scripting language for graphics processing |
| 10:22 | <@planetmaker> | +a |
| 10:22 | <Chris_Booth> | and its free |
| 10:23 | <@planetmaker> | it does NOT mean you have to use it to create graphics |
| 10:23 | <@planetmaker> | But it means that I'll from now on will prefer layered photoshop or gimp files as source ;-) |
| 10:23 | <@planetmaker> | for where it makes sense |
| 10:27 | <@planetmaker> | it 'simply' is means to save much repetitive work, like creating graphics for different ground tiles. Or generating a snowy and non-snowy version of trees, ... |
| 10:29 | <Chris_Booth> | thats a realy good idea |
| 10:29 | <@Terkhen> | or about 80 truck sprites |
| 10:29 | <Chris_Booth> | same with train wagons |
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| 10:29 | <Chris_Booth> | or liveries |
| 10:29 | <Chris_Booth> | sort all livers for a train in 1 png |
| 10:30 | <ndujoe1> | just found this game the net, enjoy it much |
| 10:31 | <@Terkhen> | hi ndujoe1 |
| 10:31 | <ndujoe1> | will take me awhile to get up to speed, but intriguing scenarios and simulations. |
| 10:32 | <ndujoe1> | i use it from the Puppylinux distribution |
| 10:33 | <@Terkhen> | which version of OpenTTD does it have? |
| 10:33 | <ndujoe1> | hold on I will look at the number brb |
| 10:34 | <@Terkhen> | don't worry it is just curiosity :) |
| 10:35 | <ndujoe1> | it says 22274 i686 |
| 10:35 | <@peter1138> | hmm, yacd's tendancy to send freight across the map instead of locally is annoying |
| 10:37 | <ndujoe1> | must be a complex code to manage all of the interfaces and interactions, written in C++ I presume? |
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| 10:37 | <@Terkhen> | peter1138: I tried yacd with cargo twice and failed... I'm thinking on enabling it only for passengers, mail, goods and foods next time |
| 10:37 | <@Terkhen> | ndujoe1: C++, yes |
| 10:38 | <ndujoe1> | it is similar to LInCity NG I thought |
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| 10:42 | <+michi_cc> | peter1138: What's local to you? |
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| 10:44 | <+michi_cc> | peter1138: economy.cargodest.ind_nearby_dist in tiles^2 (and scaled by 1D map size) controls what is still nearby. And if you change economy.cargodest.ind_chances to "100,100,100" (no possible via the in-game console though), only local destinations will be used if possible. |
| 10:50 | -!- | Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd |
| 10:53 | <@peter1138> | well, local as in "industries that are closer than the industries that yacd has chosen" |
| 10:54 | <@peter1138> | like 60 tiles away instead of 360... |
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| 11:05 | <ndujoe1> | question: is there a generalized multiplayer set whereby one can watch game play to see how it is done without bothering the players online? |
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| 11:06 | <TWerkhoven> | join as a spectator i would say |
| 11:06 | <Chris_Booth> | ndujoe1 yes join as spectator |
| 11:07 | <ndujoe1> | in multiplay games do you usually work as a team in a company or individually just wondering? |
| 11:08 | <@Terkhen> | depends, some servers are competitive, others cooperative |
| 11:08 | <ndujoe1> | ic I will learn as a go along :) thanks. |
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| 11:12 | <@planetmaker> | yep, joining as spectator is the usual thing |
| 11:12 | <@planetmaker> | on the other hand: if you join a MP server, you can just as well found a company and try yourself usually |
| 11:12 | <@planetmaker> | except there where cooperative play is asked for ;-) |
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| 11:14 | <Chris_Booth> | planetmaker is there a way to map map edge bigger, like 50 tiles for example? |
| 11:14 | <Chris_Booth> | so I could effectivly make a 400^2 map from a 512^2? |
| 11:15 | <@planetmaker> | not that I know. |
| 11:15 | <@Yexo> | not without changing the source code |
| 11:16 | <Rubidium> | voiding the lot probably does the trick |
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| 11:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | shouldn't a hacked scenario suffice? |
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| 11:25 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ |
| 11:25 | <Chris_Booth> | Eddi|zuHause how would I hack one? |
| 11:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | decompress and use hex editor? :p |
| 11:26 | <Chris_Booth> | I just want a 400^2 map to play in r22375 |
| 11:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you can produce uncompressed savegames by setting an option in the .cfg |
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| 11:28 | <Chris_Booth> | Eddi|zuHause would that be: savegame_format = ? |
| 11:28 | <Chris_Booth> | set that to decmopress? |
| 11:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "none" or somesuch |
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| 11:31 | <ChoHag> | Why does the clients column in multiplayer have 2 sets of numbers? |
| 11:32 | <@Yexo> | their client-id and the company they're part of |
| 11:32 | <@Yexo> | try "help clients" int he console |
| 11:33 | -!- | HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.164.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 11:33 | <ChoHag> | No, in the list of multiplayer servers. |
| 11:33 | <@Yexo> | first is current/maximum players, second set is current/maximum companies |
| 11:34 | <@Yexo> | should be two different columns |
| 11:34 | <ChoHag> | Ah right. |
| 11:38 | <Chris_Booth> | Eddi|zuHause if I use decompressed saves then use what to red the .sav file? |
| 11:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i already said that |
| 11:39 | <Chris_Booth> | hex editor |
| 11:40 | <@Yexo> | changing the code would be a lot easier |
| 11:41 | <Chris_Booth> | hhm hex editor is just a huge amount of meaning less number now |
| 11:43 | <@Terkhen> | I don't think there is a way to hack the savegame to get map sizes that are not a power of two, IIRC the size is actually stored as the exponent |
| 11:43 | <@Yexo> | it is, but you could mark a lot of tiles as MP_VOID |
| 11:43 | <@Yexo> | which might or might not work correctly |
| 11:44 | <Chris_Booth> | is there anyway I can just get water_borders = 16(which is max) to equal 50? |
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| 11:44 | <@Terkhen> | that would be an easy code hack |
| 11:44 | <@Yexo> | what? you want 16 to equal 50? |
| 11:44 | <@Terkhen> | s/easy/easier/ |
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| 11:45 | <@Yexo> | the game setting water_borders is a bitset of borders that are water |
| 11:45 | <Rubidium> | isn't water_borders a bitset of the edges that have a watery border and which don't? |
| 11:45 | <@Yexo> | it has nothing to do with the amount of water around the map, so 50 wouldn't make sense at all |
| 11:45 | <Chris_Booth> | yes |
| 11:46 | <Chris_Booth> | aaah I thought it as was a tile count not a bitset |
| 11:51 | <@Terkhen> | there must be a constant for that somewhere in the code (maybe in map generation); you could increase it |
| 11:55 | <Chris_Booth> | I give up on hex editor Eddi|zuHause its just a huge about of random data which I can't read |
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| 11:55 | <Chris_Booth> | its all seems to be either p or ` |
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| 12:39 | * | peter1138 ponders running a YACD server |
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| 12:45 | <ChoHag> | My goods train are stuck in the station. |
| 12:45 | <ChoHag> | Oh never mind. |
| 12:45 | <ChoHag> | Told them to full load. |
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| 12:46 | <@peter1138> | okay, yacd_2.2 server :D |
| 12:46 | -!- | devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 12:50 | <Ammler> | I don't think, yacd is playable for MP, coop only :-) |
| 12:50 | <Ammler> | or it needs IS |
| 12:50 | <Ammler> | (playable for multiple companies) |
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| 12:55 | <@peter1138> | well |
| 12:56 | <@peter1138> | lack of IS doesn't mean it's not playable |
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| 12:56 | <Ammler> | of course not |
| 12:56 | <Ammler> | just my personal opinion |
| 12:57 | <Chris_Booth> | it may make an interesting game |
| 12:57 | <Chris_Booth> | you would get real industry comeptition |
| 12:57 | <Ammler> | well, there are severs up, try it :-P |
| 12:57 | <Chris_Booth> | Ammler I can't play 4 openttd games at once |
| 12:57 | <Ammler> | yacd is completely MP stable |
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| 12:59 | <Chris_Booth> | would YACD work is IS2? if I where to merge then? |
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| 12:59 | <@peter1138> | i doubt it would be a simple merge, but theoretically there's no problem |
| 12:59 | <@peter1138> | other than the payment rates issue... |
| 13:00 | <Ammler> | no need, first yacd then think about next step :-P |
| 13:08 | <@peter1138> | eh? |
| 13:09 | <@peter1138> | woo, making money |
| 13:14 | <@peter1138> | not much, mind you |
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| 13:29 | <@peter1138> | oh |
| 13:29 | <@peter1138> | lol |
| 13:29 | <@peter1138> | didn't enable it in the options :p |
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| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: translators * r22470 /trunk/src/lang/ (luxembourgish.txt romanian.txt): |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 8 changes by Phreeze |
| 13:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: romanian - 2 changes by kkmic |
| 13:53 | <@peter1138> | oh god |
| 13:53 | <@peter1138> | horrible drawback of not using newgrfs |
| 13:53 | <@peter1138> | coal trains that go 80mph on the back of a passenger loco :S |
| 14:02 | -!- | Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd |
| 14:02 | -!- | Mucht is "Martin Nussbaumer" on @#coopetition @#JJ @+#openttdcoop.association @#openttdcoop.dev #wwottdgd #openttd @#tycoon.de @#openttdcoop |
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| 14:34 | <andythenorth> | evaning |
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| 14:35 | <@Terkhen> | hi |
| 14:35 | <@planetmaker> | hi andythenorth |
| 14:35 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth, would it be usable to you to use psd files as source? |
| 14:35 | <andythenorth> | for me, yes? |
| 14:35 | <andythenorth> | for others....not sure |
| 14:35 | <@planetmaker> | even if it would mean to (also) install gimp? |
| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | well I've been using psd as source since I started using a repo |
| 14:37 | <andythenorth> | the alternatives are impractical for me |
| 14:37 | <@planetmaker> | I mean really as source as in the makefile converts it for you into the pngs, and you just define the layers which shall be used for that png |
| 14:38 | <andythenorth> | that would be even better - I have contemplated scripting that in photoshop for FIRS before now |
| 14:38 | <@planetmaker> | I've scripted it for gimp. And it can read psd |
| 14:38 | <andythenorth> | why the question? |
| 14:39 | <@planetmaker> | and we know how to teach the CF its use, too ;-) |
| 14:39 | <@planetmaker> | I'm now implementing it into the makefile(s), but that's working in a preliminary way already, too |
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| 14:44 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: do you coop guys base network design on methodologies, or do you do it by trial-and-error? |
| 14:44 | <@planetmaker> | in what context? |
| 14:45 | <@planetmaker> | when building rail tracks? |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | yes. some of the tactics you use seem to be similar to lean practices |
| 14:45 | <@planetmaker> | It depends on the person probably who suggests the plan to follow for that game |
| 14:45 | <andythenorth> | e.g. http://www.strategosinc.com/onepieceflow.htm |
| 14:47 | <@planetmaker> | well... one person working on one thing is the logical thing, isn't it? |
| 14:47 | <@planetmaker> | economics of course have to re-discover it and coin a nice buzz-word for it :-P |
| 14:49 | <@planetmaker> | but probably I didn't quite grasp that concept yet. So... what is it about - and why does coop seem to use it? |
| 14:49 | <andythenorth> | I've seen some coop games with very short trains |
| 14:49 | <@planetmaker> | yes? |
| 14:51 | <andythenorth> | basically that's using one-piece flow for delivery, rather than large batch delivery |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | nvm if it's not obvious - just my day job intruding :) |
| 14:52 | <@planetmaker> | ah. Well. I guess it's a matter of what takes our fancy. Limited by map size and terrain |
| 14:52 | <@planetmaker> | Too long trains make for HUGE junctions etc without actually adding fun. And more trains are more fun, too |
| 14:53 | <@peter1138> | hmm, well |
| 14:53 | <@peter1138> | if you do the whole "realism" thing... ;) |
| 14:53 | -!- | Chillosophy [~Chillosop@ip91350749.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 14:53 | <@peter1138> | then most junctions are at stations |
| 14:54 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 14:54 | <@peter1138> | simple bit of pbs suffices :) |
| 14:54 | <@planetmaker> | then yes. And I sometimes do that in my own games. But on the coop maps... hardly :-) |
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| 15:20 | <@SmatZ> | @seen Zuu |
| 15:20 | <@DorpsGek> | SmatZ: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 30 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <Zuu> and though you were refering to some post at the forums. |
| 15:21 | <Zuu> | @seen Zuu |
| 15:21 | <@DorpsGek> | Zuu: Zuu was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 30 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Zuu> and though you were refering to some post at the forums. |
| 15:21 | <Zuu> | Hello |
| 15:21 | <@SmatZ> | hello Zuu :-) |
| 15:21 | <Zuu> | :-) |
| 15:21 | <@SmatZ> | I haven't seen you talking for long time, so I wondered if you are still here |
| 15:21 | <@SmatZ> | but I just missed your comments, it seems :) |
| 15:22 | <Zuu> | I'm still here. I just havn't been here so much recently. |
| 15:22 | <@SmatZ> | same here, I am too busy & tired :( |
| 15:23 | <Zuu> | Got to "play" with transportation models at work anyway :-) |
| 15:23 | -!- | Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 15:23 | <@SmatZ> | :-) |
| 15:23 | <@SmatZ> | that's nice |
| 15:24 | <Zuu> | Last week I visited a traffic signal conference. That was fun. :-) |
| 15:24 | <heffer> | planetmaker: just saw your highlight. i'd be perfectly fine adding gimp to the BuildRequires from a Fedora standpoint ;) but i think we should test this first |
| 15:24 | <@SmatZ> | :-) |
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| 15:26 | <@planetmaker> | heffer, good to know :-) |
| 15:26 | <Rubidium> | I guess the main question is whether GIMP works without X |
| 15:26 | <@planetmaker> | we (Ammler) ran this afternoon a test with the opensuse build services - which showed that it works fine |
| 15:27 | <heffer> | okay. then our koji builder should be fine too |
| 15:27 | <heffer> | what about checksums? i believe they might be different for each distro then, depending on which signatures gimp places into the files |
| 15:28 | <@planetmaker> | good question. I did not yet investigate that |
| 15:28 | <Rubidium> | the final pixels ought to be the same |
| 15:28 | <ChoHag> | I think I know why passengers in YACD keep losing me money. |
| 15:28 | * | Zuu wonders why he don't find a wordpress plugin to fix the rss-feed space problem using a filter function. |
| 15:28 | <Rubidium> | and those are what's use, right? |
| 15:28 | <@planetmaker> | also true :-) |
| 15:29 | <@planetmaker> | different png headers wouldn't matter indeed |
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| 15:30 | <heffer> | yes but there's nothing that would choke on different checksums? |
| 15:30 | <heffer> | if so, that'd be fine then :D |
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| 15:30 | <@planetmaker> | there should not be, unless the indexed palette would get screwed. Which would be a reason to drop it |
| 15:31 | -!- | garlet [44ed1aae@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd |
| 15:31 | <garlet> | hello |
| 15:31 | <@planetmaker> | hi |
| 15:31 | <garlet> | anyone on |
| 15:31 | <garlet> | : D |
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| 15:32 | <garlet> | this is the irc for openttd right ? |
| 15:32 | <@planetmaker> | according to the name one might suspect so, yes |
| 15:33 | <garlet> | xD is there any virus in it ? |
| 15:33 | <@planetmaker> | yep. A quite viral virus |
| 15:33 | <garlet> | seriously!!! |
| 15:34 | <@planetmaker> | Also known as "playing fun" ;-) |
| 15:34 | <garlet> | oooo \ |
| 15:34 | <garlet> | : o ty but i am serious |
| 15:35 | <@planetmaker> | what answer do you expect? |
| 15:35 | <garlet> | after downloading it the next time i downloaded i got the black screen with movable cursor on my laptop... |
| 15:35 | <heffer> | garlet: no. no viruses in the official version from openttd.org |
| 15:35 | <garlet> | D": so yeah i am worried |
| 15:35 | -!- | TWerkhoven2 is now known as TWerkhoven |
| 15:36 | <garlet> | can anyonehelp me with that D": |
| 15:36 | <@planetmaker> | not yet. We know neither version, nor OS, nor... anything else |
| 15:37 | <@planetmaker> | nor what constitutes "the next time I downloaded" |
| 15:37 | <@planetmaker> | if the next time you used download was from a dubious porn site, I'd worry about that more ;-) |
| 15:37 | <garlet> | lolz nah i don;t download porn xD |
| 15:38 | <heffer> | that's very comforting to know |
| 15:38 | <heffer> | :P |
| 15:38 | <garlet> | but seriously can anyone help me D": or no where i can get help |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | then help us and answer my questions |
| 15:39 | <heffer> | garlet: i assume it's not a virus but that there is something wrong with your setup |
| 15:39 | <@SmatZ> | I don't download porn either, I just watch it online :p |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | :-P |
| 15:39 | <heffer> | but based on your information an assumption is all you can expect |
| 15:39 | <Rubidium> | if there were a virus in OpenTTD, it must be an ancient one and it must have been in there for almost three years. You being the first to notice is extremely unlikely |
| 15:40 | <SpComb> | you don't dump malicious payloads into SVN |
| 15:40 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth, http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/firs_gimp2png.diff <-- adopted for FIRS. |
| 15:40 | <garlet> | o,,o |
| 15:40 | <@SmatZ> | garlet: 1) open window 2) take your notebook and throw it outside |
| 15:40 | <@SmatZ> | note that skipping step 1 will result in glass everywhere and broken window |
| 15:40 | <garlet> | D": seriously i got important things there |
| 15:40 | <Rubidium> | as such, it being in the binaries from the official site (I'm assuming you checked the checksums) is significantly less likely than a virus scanner that is incorrectly marking OpenTTD as having a virus |
| 15:41 | <@planetmaker> | that makes you value backups more then :-) |
| 15:41 | <garlet> | my backups failed |
| 15:41 | <Rubidium> | ofcourse, if you like many others, downloaded OpenTTD from a torrent site or something all bets are off |
| 15:41 | <garlet> | i downloaded from main site |
| 15:42 | <ChoHag> | Is michi_cc often around? |
| 15:42 | <@SmatZ> | "black screen with a cursor" is hardly a sign of nowadays' virus |
| 15:42 | <@planetmaker> | so... still the question is on: what version and OS do you use? |
| 15:42 | <@SmatZ> | rather broken video driver |
| 15:42 | <garlet> | i use w7 |
| 15:42 | -!- | Amis [~Amis@catv-89-135-77-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 15:42 | <@planetmaker> | do you use a screen background changer or alike? |
| 15:43 | <@planetmaker> | they're known to cause interferences |
| 15:43 | <garlet> | huh |
| 15:43 | <garlet> | u mean my background changes after a while? |
| 15:43 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
| 15:43 | <garlet> | YES : O |
| 15:43 | <ChoHag> | SmatZ: If you've ever fixed a computer for a person over the age of 40, you'll know that not quite working right, for any value of right, equals virus. |
| 15:43 | <ChoHag> | Every time somebody I do computer work for phones me up with a problem, they think it's a virus. |
| 15:44 | <garlet> | peacemaker plz keep going |
| 15:44 | <@planetmaker> | it's usually their fault, if things go wrong. As they hack the graphics card and don't let other programmes use it normally, especially in full screen. |
| 15:44 | <garlet> | but this came with compt... |
| 15:44 | <@planetmaker> | so try to disable that and try openttd again. |
| 15:44 | <@SmatZ> | ChoHag: actually, most of times I "fixed" someone's computer, it was full of virii :) I was wondering how they could work with that :) |
| 15:44 | <garlet> | i can;t get to it =--= |
| 15:45 | <garlet> | black screen with moveable mouse after start up |
| 15:45 | <ChoHag> | True, but rarely is it the viruses causing whatever they're actually suffering from. |
| 15:45 | <@SmatZ> | true :) |
| 15:45 | <garlet> | fml |
| 15:45 | <garlet> | does anyone no any good tech support sites |
| 15:46 | <ChoHag> | That is invariably just a simple I D TEN T issue. |
| 15:46 | <ChoHag> | garlet: I hear www.google.com is good. |
| 15:46 | <garlet> | ... |
| 15:46 | <ChoHag> | Never used it myself. |
| 15:46 | <@SmatZ> | :P |
| 15:46 | <@SmatZ> | garlet: I have only one idea, try locating your openttd.cfg |
| 15:47 | <@SmatZ> | and set |
| 15:47 | <@SmatZ> | fullscreen = false |
| 15:47 | <ChoHag> | Doesn't alt-enter work? |
| 15:47 | <garlet> | no... |
| 15:47 | <@SmatZ> | blitter = 32bpp-optimized |
| 15:47 | <garlet> | how i do that smatz |
| 15:48 | <@SmatZ> | win+s maybe opens a search window |
| 15:48 | <garlet> | command prompt? |
| 15:48 | <@SmatZ> | no |
| 15:48 | <@SmatZ> | that window with a dog |
| 15:48 | <@SmatZ> | at least, it was a window with a dog in winXP |
| 15:48 | <garlet> | wha dog? |
| 15:48 | <ChoHag> | Dogs fetch things. |
| 15:49 | <@SmatZ> | http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Find-a-file-or-folder |
| 15:49 | <@SmatZ> | search for openttd.cfg |
| 15:49 | <@SmatZ> | and open it in notepad |
| 15:49 | <garlet> | dude i can;t |
| 15:50 | <garlet> | when starting up my compt my is goes to black screen with a mouse and that it |
| 15:50 | <garlet> | even in safe mode |
| 15:50 | <@SmatZ> | so you are using different computer now, right? |
| 15:50 | <@SmatZ> | your computer is likely broken |
| 15:50 | <garlet> | yeah |
| 15:51 | <@SmatZ> | and it has nothing to do with openttd |
| 15:51 | <garlet> | =\ |
| 15:51 | <ChoHag> | Yeah sounds broken. |
| 15:51 | <ChoHag> | Reinstall windows. |
| 15:51 | <@SmatZ> | hehe |
| 15:51 | <garlet> | how reinstall |
| 15:51 | <@SmatZ> | garlet: 1) open window 2) take your notebook and throw it outside |
| 15:51 | <@SmatZ> | 3) buy new computer |
| 15:51 | <ChoHag> | Find your local geek or geek shop, hand over cash or cake, wait. |
| 15:52 | <garlet> | =\ |
| 15:52 | <ChoHag> | If the cake is good, they'll even keep your old data safe. |
| 15:52 | <@SmatZ> | you should indeed be able to find someone to do that for you |
| 15:52 | <@SmatZ> | hehe :) |
| 15:52 | <andythenorth> | get a mac |
| 15:52 | <andythenorth> | known to be virus free |
| 15:52 | <garlet> | mac sux for gaming |
| 15:52 | <andythenorth> | yeah, right |
| 15:52 | <@Terkhen> | cake is great |
| 15:52 | <@SmatZ> | :) |
| 15:52 | <garlet> | mac no virus free |
| 15:52 | <ChoHag> | s/for gaming// |
| 15:52 | <@SmatZ> | mmm reminds me of Portal 2 |
| 15:52 | * | andythenorth invokes mac version of godwin's law and runs away |
| 15:52 | <@SmatZ> | hehe |
| 15:52 | <garlet> | noone wants to hack it 2 much work for nothing |
| 15:52 | <@Terkhen> | most of the games I play have a mac version already |
| 15:53 | <@Terkhen> | I don't know how good their performance is compared to windows, though |
| 15:53 | <andythenorth> | there is an easy non-virus way to DoS mac users |
| 15:53 | <ChoHag> | Yeah. |
| 15:53 | <andythenorth> | post on mac sites that 'sudo rm -r *' makes safari run faster |
| 15:53 | <ChoHag> | Boot. |
| 15:53 | <@Terkhen> | what, starting a flame about the latest iProduct? |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | ho |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | good point |
| 15:54 | <@Terkhen> | :D |
| 15:54 | * | andythenorth has a beer |
| 15:54 | * | SmatZ has too |
| 15:54 | <Chris_Booth> | beer |
| 15:54 | <@SmatZ> | :) |
| 15:54 | <@Terkhen> | thanks, my chocolate now sucks in comparison |
| 15:54 | <@SmatZ> | :D |
| 15:54 | <Chris_Booth> | lol beer watch is so much fun |
| 15:55 | * | andythenorth takes beer from SmatZ and hands him a Chris_Booth instead |
| 15:55 | <Chris_Booth> | that was so not worth the IRC ping :'( |
| 15:55 | * | SmatZ takes another one |
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| 15:56 | <Chris_Booth> | get him self a warm pint of guniess |
| 15:57 | <ChoHag> | Does anyone know much about the yacd source? |
| 15:58 | <@Terkhen> | michi_cc might have a clue or two |
| 15:58 | <@SmatZ> | hehe :) |
| 15:58 | <ChoHag> | Yeah but he doesn't seem to be around. |
| 15:58 | <@Terkhen> | now that he has been highlighted he will answer when he's here :) |
| 15:59 | <ChoHag> | I tried that earlier and he hasn't popped up. |
| 15:59 | <ChoHag> | I have bugs to fix dammit! |
| 15:59 | <garlet> | brb |
| 16:00 | <@SmatZ> | ChoHag: maybe you can open a bugreport |
| 16:00 | <ChoHag> | I couldn't find anywhere to do that. |
| 16:00 | <+michi_cc> | ChoHag: How about you ask a real question I can answer? :) |
| 16:00 | <ChoHag> | OK. |
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| 16:01 | <ChoHag> | How can I stop cargo trying to route back to its originating station? |
| 16:02 | <ChoHag> | See my two posts on the yacd 2.2 thread by way of example. |
| 16:02 | <andythenorth> | ChoHag: it shouldn't be doing that :) |
| 16:02 | <ChoHag> | No indeed. |
| 16:02 | <+michi_cc> | By lowering the compile-time constant CYapfCostRouteLinkT::LOCAL_PENALTY_FACTOR or by waiting on me for the next release. |
| 16:03 | <ChoHag> | Will I have to wait long? I've got a good game going except for my passenger routes. |
| 16:03 | <ChoHag> | :) |
| 16:05 | <+michi_cc> | No idea, depends on what else crops up. |
| 16:05 | <+michi_cc> | Do check first though if all settings are at the default values. |
| 16:05 | <ChoHag> | Is my theory correct? People want to go from one house to another, both within the cachement area of the same station? |
| 16:06 | <ChoHag> | I'm only able to go on how I think openttd (and yacd) might work as I've not really done much diving into the code yet at all. |
| 16:08 | <ChoHag> | But with an idea to go on I will at least have an aim in mind in my poking around. |
| 16:09 | <+michi_cc> | The source and destination tile can be inside the catchment of the same station, but travel back to the same station is strongly discouraged. You might have hit an edge case that requires some tuning of the settings or you simply didn't change some setting when the default changed. |
| 16:10 | <ChoHag> | 2.2 is the only yacd I've played. |
| 16:10 | <ChoHag> | I did play other cargodists though. |
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| 16:10 | <+michi_cc> | That is pf.yapf.route_* (which should not have been used anywhere outside YACD) |
| 16:12 | <ChoHag> | Is this defaults? http://pastebin.com/AkE7DWy7 |
| 16:14 | <ChoHag> | Also, doesn't it make sense to not allow source and destination to be inside the same station's area? |
| 16:15 | <ChoHag> | Unless they have other, closer stations (eg. I have 3 or 4 bus stops within walking distance of my house) |
| 16:18 | <@peter1138> | catchments can overlap |
| 16:20 | <+michi_cc> | The settings look alright (assuming that's what the save game actually uses). |
| 16:28 | <andythenorth> | whoever changed the train length display in depot view made the right call :) |
| 16:30 | <@planetmaker> | that's old news, but it was our green leaf frog |
| 16:31 | <@planetmaker> | ;-) |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | thought I'd mention it ;) |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | the default train length I am less enamoured with |
| 16:31 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 16:33 | <@Terkhen> | :) |
| 16:35 | <garlet> | o,,o |
| 16:35 | <garlet> | bk |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | michi_cc: bug reports for 1.3 are no longer valid? |
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| 16:46 | <garlet> | .... |
| 16:46 | <ChoHag> | My wife is playing. |
| 16:46 | <garlet> | kool |
| 16:46 | <ChoHag> | I don't know whether to be impressed or worried. |
| 16:46 | <garlet> | both! |
| 16:47 | <__ln__> | ChoHag: voluntarely? |
| 16:47 | <garlet> | hows she doing |
| 16:48 | <ChoHag> | Sort of. |
| 16:48 | <ChoHag> | She said yesterday that she was bored and I suggested she could play that. |
| 16:48 | <ChoHag> | I didn't think she'd say yes. |
| 16:49 | <__ln__> | there aren't many documented cases of voluntary female players |
| 16:50 | <garlet> | .... |
| 16:50 | <garlet> | i got 2 |
| 16:50 | <garlet> | xD |
| 16:51 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 16:52 | <andythenorth> | CHIPS cargo looks same as cargo at some FIRS industries |
| 16:52 | <andythenorth> | this may not be wise |
| 16:54 | <garlet> | .... |
| 16:55 | <garlet> | I WANA PLAY SOOOO BAD!!! |
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| 16:56 | <garlet> | hey |
| 16:56 | <garlet> | anyone willing to give tips on the game |
| 16:58 | <@Belugas> | i don't even give a tip to the barman... |
| 16:58 | <@Belugas> | time to go home, night! |
| 16:59 | <ChoHag> | Why can't you play it on whichever computer you're chatting? |
| 16:59 | <garlet> | .... |
| 16:59 | <garlet> | this one has other things wrong with it |
| 16:59 | <@Belugas> | ho... another free tip, garlet: the wiki is far more verbose than the guys in this channel :) |
| 16:59 | <garlet> | : O |
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| 17:00 | * | Belugas is now gone |
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| 17:05 | <@planetmaker> | [22:52] andythenorth CHIPS cargo looks same as cargo at some FIRS industries <-- why not? |
| 17:06 | <@planetmaker> | it may even make sense |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | confuses me |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | I don't know whether cargo is waiting or not |
| 17:06 | <andythenorth> | looks nice though :P |
| 17:07 | <@planetmaker> | ^ I'd consider it 'feature', not 'bug' |
| 17:07 | <@planetmaker> | 'looks nice' is a good enough reason to keep it ;-) |
| 17:08 | <andythenorth> | as I have no better idea, it can stay ;) |
| 17:08 | <@planetmaker> | one idea might be 'not the same' but 'same style'. Like piles differently arranged or so |
| 17:09 | <@planetmaker> | then it is (somewhat) clear that it's not the industry, but it fits the same way nevertheless |
| 17:09 | * | planetmaker wonders about (gimp-2.6:14693): Gimp-Core-CRITICAL **: gimp_image_opened: assertion `GIMP_IS_GIMP (gimp)' failed |
| 17:10 | <ChoHag> | Your gimp escaped. |
| 17:10 | <@planetmaker> | :-) it works as it should. But complains |
| 17:10 | <frosch123> | we should also add such an error to ottd |
| 17:10 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 17:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hmm... i'm lacking the ability to filter vehicle lists by cargo type... |
| 17:11 | <@Terkhen> | wow :D |
| 17:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | similar to the buy menu |
| 17:12 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: I just had exactly the same request :P |
| 17:13 | <andythenorth> | order by cargo capacity is fairly useless |
| 17:13 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yep, they all have the same :p |
| 17:13 | <frosch123> | night |
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| 17:13 | <@planetmaker> | not quite, at least in buy menu |
| 17:13 | <@planetmaker> | buy frosch... |
| 17:13 | <Zuu> | Apart from being slow or getting GTK-problems, I never had any serious problems with GIMP. |
| 17:13 | <@planetmaker> | or bye ;-) |
| 17:13 | <@planetmaker> | damn similar words :S |
| 17:14 | <Zuu> | Oh, and the tablet problems.. |
| 17:14 | <@planetmaker> | Zuu: it's not a problem. It's just a funky message... |
| 17:14 | <@planetmaker> | without apparent consequence. That's the odd thing |
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| 17:15 | <Zuu> | Interesting assertion by the way :-) |
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| 17:15 | <@planetmaker> | yep ;-) |
| 17:24 | * | andythenorth needs to stop playing YACD and ...go to sleep |
| 17:24 | <ChoHag> | andythenorth: Can you see if your yacd games have the same passenger routing problems mine do? |
| 17:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "ships getting old" is a weird concept... |
| 17:25 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: why? |
| 17:25 | <ChoHag> | Ships exist outside time? |
| 17:25 | <andythenorth> | ChoHag: my yacd game is 1.3 and tracking where PAX go would be way to hard |
| 17:25 | <ChoHag> | 1.3? |
| 17:25 | <ChoHag> | Upgrade already! |
| 17:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | my impression is that ships should have very long lifespans compared to trains or aircraft |
| 17:26 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: FISH ones are quite long |
| 17:26 | <@Terkhen> | wasn't the last version 2.something? |
| 17:26 | <andythenorth> | my savegame is too nice |
| 17:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: yes, but i constantly get spammed with "ship is really old" messages after 50 years... |
| 17:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and i can't bother to replace them :p |
| 17:27 | <andythenorth> | turn off the message |
| 17:27 | <andythenorth> | turn on autoreplace |
| 17:27 | <andythenorth> | patch the grf |
| 17:27 | <andythenorth> | ?? :) |
| 17:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i patched too many grfs already ;) |
| 17:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "track planning" is useless. |
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| 17:41 | <garlet> | ... |
| 17:44 | <@Terkhen> | good night |
| 17:44 | <@planetmaker> | garlet: we cannot fix your computer(s), if you can't even start your OS. And speechless dots... won't help there either ;-) |
| 17:44 | <@planetmaker> | good night Terkhen |
| 17:52 | <garlet> | ... |
| 17:52 | <garlet> | i was bored... |
| 17:52 | <@planetmaker> | a good reason to spam this channel with nonsense? I don't think so |
| 17:52 | <garlet> | : D y not |
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| 18:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm... autoreplace not working. |
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| 18:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i have trains consisting of 4 times BR 515 (single units), and have ordered to replace them with BR 612 (double units) |
| 18:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and it says "train too long after replacement" |
| 18:42 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i guess "wagon removal" doesn't do "engine removal". |
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| 18:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm... i think i just saw the "euro gets introduced" newspaper for the first time... |
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| 19:15 | * | Zuu will have to wait until the UK introduces euro bofore seeing that newspaper. (I always use pounds in my OpenTTD games) |
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| 21:36 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B76945.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 21:36 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76945.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 21:40 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
| 21:40 | -!- | Wolf01 [~wolf01@host230-208-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] |
| 21:55 | -!- | Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing] |
| 21:57 | -!- | Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause |
| 21:57 | * | Eddi|zuHause just had to "reboot" his tram system in one city... |
| 21:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | send all to depot, send one of each line to renew the timetable, then spread them out evenly by start date |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue May 17 00:00:52 2011 |