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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-05-17

---Logopened Tue May 17 00:00:52 2011
00:03-!-Chrill [Chrill@ip68-8-120-178.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #openttd
00:03<Chrill>Anyone here skilled (at least slightly skilled) in Linguistics? :P
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01:55<@planetmaker>moin
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02:15<@planetmaker>moin andythenorth
02:15<@planetmaker>and moin all :-)
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02:16<@planetmaker>andythenorth: there's an updated psd2png patch: http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/firs_gimp.diff
02:16<@planetmaker>the old one had.... issues
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02:40<@Terkhen>good morning
02:40<@planetmaker>moin Terkhen
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04:32<dihedral>good morning
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05:04<@peter1138>so has anyone come up with 'real' tunnels/bridges yet? :p
05:04*peter1138 could do with a subway system
05:04<@peter1138>or at least signals in tunnels
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05:08<ChoHag>Let me learn the code first!
05:08<ChoHag>Sheesh!
05:08<@peter1138>i don't think that's enough ;)
05:08<ChoHag>No but it's a start.
05:11<ChoHag>Right now I'm still at the stage of getting annoyed with C++.
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05:12<ChoHag>Why couldn't it have been written in something like perl or bash?
05:12<ChoHag>Something I know like the back of my hand.
05:14<@planetmaker>bash's GUI is ill-suited for pixel lovers
05:15<@planetmaker>;-)
05:15<ChoHag>Nethack runs great though.
05:17<@peter1138>it would probably be a bit slow too
05:17<ChoHag>Mere implementation details.
05:19<ChoHag>If there are multiple stations, does cargo take station proximity into account when choosing where to start (and in yacd, end) a journey?
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05:20<ChoHag>ie. Will passengers choose the closest bus stop, or will they happily walk across town in order to get a bus back to their neighbour?
05:20<@peter1138>it just has to be in the catchment area
05:20<@peter1138>cargo will be distributed based on station rating
05:20<ChoHag>And only rating?
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06:26<avdg>could someone block hy220 on the wiki please?
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06:31<@peter1138>done
06:32<avdg>oh, looks like someone already done that
06:33<avdg>ty
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06:48<@peter1138>so my mass-transit system has no signals :p
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07:48<Wolf01>hello
07:48<@planetmaker>hi Wolf01
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08:17<Eddi|zuHause>hm, does http://bellard.org/jslinux/ work for anybody?
08:17<SpComb>wrong browser
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't seem to run in konqueror
08:17<Markk>Yes
08:18<Markk>Works fine for me.
08:18<SpComb>I wonder what HTML5 it uses
08:18<Markk>I tried that earlier today.
08:18<Noldo_>yeah, booted in chrome
08:18<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: works
08:18<Markk>Fx4 here
08:19<Ammler>on Konqueror, I got following error: ERROR: your browser is too old to run JS/Linux.
08:19<Ammler> You should use a recent browser such as Firefox 4.x or Google Chrome.
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08:20<Noldo_>that thing gives me the creeps
08:20<Markk>Ammler: It says what you need to do.
08:20<Markk>:D
08:21<Ammler>it has no network access :-)
08:21<Noldo_>:D the terminal is a table
08:21<Markk>I would like to have bash.
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>takes ages to load in firefox
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>but seems to work
08:24<@planetmaker>get a better connection. it also works flawlessly and quick with ff3
08:25<Ammler>needs to download the kernel :-)
08:25<Eddi|zuHause>yes, give me better connection, please :p
08:25<Noldo_>you can propably download the parts to local computer if the loading is a problem
08:25<SpComb>next step: an implementation of X in javascript
08:26<Noldo_>canvas might be needed for that
08:27<SpComb>or just VGA framebuffer
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>DX11 ;(
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>;)
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09:22<@Belugas>hello
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09:43<dihedral>hello Belugas
09:43<dihedral>:-)
09:45<@Belugas>wow... a live dihedral :) been a while i've seen you around sir
09:45<@Belugas>hi then :)
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09:49<dihedral>:-)
09:49<dihedral>yeah - i have a lot to do :-(
09:49<dihedral>talking of a lot to do
09:50<dihedral>any body in this channel in the need of a sys admin job? :-D
09:50<dihedral>70/30 to 60/40 linux / windows
09:50<@Belugas>not me. want to do customer support on windows, instead?
09:50<dihedral>ho no
09:50<dihedral>i have to sadly
09:50<dihedral>oh - and mac :-(
09:51<dihedral>but we will drop that branch in the near future
09:51<@peter1138>sysadmin eh?
09:51<dihedral>aye
09:51<@peter1138>how much? :p
09:51<dihedral>30k eur p.a.
09:52<dihedral>esx, linux: web, database, file, mail servers, etc. windows: some little support, exchange, dc, backup (veeam + backupexec)
09:53<dihedral>roughly :-P
09:53<ChoHag>30K EUR?
09:53<ChoHag>Good luck with that.
09:55<dihedral>what would you suggest? ;-)
09:56<ChoHag>Upwards of 50.
09:56<dihedral>that's probably never going to happen in this company - at least i would not expect that to happen
09:57<ChoHag>That is frequently the case.
09:57<@peter1138>hmm
09:57<ChoHag>And the companies generally end up with admins worth what they are paid.
09:57<dihedral>for that working here is very relaxed :-)
09:58<@peter1138>pfft, overpaid IT workers
09:58<dihedral>ChoHag, thanks!!
09:58<dihedral>but i'll take that as a compliment ;-)
09:58<ChoHag>No worries :)
09:58<ChoHag>peter1138: The good ones are worth it.
09:58<dihedral>ChoHag, of course the good ones are worth it - but finding the good ones is nasty :-P - esp. if you find a shit load of crappy ones first
09:58<ChoHag>Or you can be like me and just get paid as if you are.
09:59<dihedral>but quite honestly - i prefer someone who can be happy with relaxed work environment and 30K than someone somewhere around 50-70K and stressed like hell
10:00<@peter1138>i reckon pay rates should be legally mandated on a "how useful is this to society scale"
10:00<@peter1138>teachers, nurses, etc, should then get way more
10:00<dihedral>aye
10:00<dihedral>that sounds like some decent tought
10:00<dihedral>*thought
10:00<@peter1138>and some nerd setting up servers in between watching anime in a dark room would get a more appropriate wage
10:01<dihedral>lol
10:01<ChoHag>Yeah they tried that.
10:01<ChoHag>My wife's seriously buggered up country is the result.
10:01<dihedral>thankfully i do not work in the cellar :-)
10:01<@peter1138>oh, hello denis
10:02<dihedral>pent-house offices, and we are only 5 :-D
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10:06*dihedral is reminded of the word "Rutsche" ^^
10:09<@peter1138>mind you, it's a bit of a silly opinion as i work in IT :p
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>http://images.derstandard.at/2011/05/16/1304588797118.jpg <-- haha: "priests and other clerical persons may not enter this forest in company of children" :p
10:14<@peter1138>heh
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11:38<@peter1138>bah
11:38<@peter1138>why don't xscreensaver hacks work with -root when a compositor is enabled?
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13:28<Thorn_>Hi all, I recently built openttd on a dedicated server (./configure --enable-dedicated) but unfortunately people can't connect as "The revision of the client does not match the server". Both client and server are built from the 1.1.0 source and the server doesn't actually have a revision (norev000).
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13:31<@planetmaker>Thorn_, you need to build from an svn checkout to allow for proper version detection
13:31<@planetmaker>a tar has no means to know its version and whether it was modified, thus... norev0000
13:32<Thorn_>hmm, and it must be identical revision to what the client is running?
13:32<@planetmaker>yes
13:33<Thorn_>alright, thanks
13:34<@planetmaker>you're welcome
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13:39<Thorn_>out of curiosity, what revision is 1.1.0? svn log shows both r2228(6,5,4) happened that day
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13:42<@Alberth>svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.1.0
13:42<Thorn_>ahh, thanks :)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r22471 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 changes by Tucalipe
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14:19<andythenorth>hello
14:19<andythenorth>what's wrong with long vehicles just bending?
14:19<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth
14:19<andythenorth>or did I miss something?
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14:40<@peter1138>uhh?
14:41<@Terkhen>stuff made in a single piece is not supposed to bend I guess
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15:02<@peter1138>does yacd handle automatic orders as expected?
15:03<@peter1138>hmm, seems to :)
15:03<ChoHag>Automatic orders?
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15:21<ChoHag>Are there any reliable multiplayer servers?
15:24<@Terkhen>I'm pretty sure some servers have been running up for years without any maintenance, so yes
15:25<ChoHag>They ain't the ones I keep picking.
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15:26<@Terkhen>what do you mean with "reliable"? what are you looking for?
15:26<ChoHag>Primarily, has the bandwidth to support the game.
15:26<Thorn_>o_O
15:27<Thorn_>openttd isn't exactly, erm, bandwidth hoggy
15:27<ChoHag>No, but many people don't seem to manage even so.
15:27<ChoHag>Where many == the small handful I've tried.
15:28<Thorn_>the only time i've seen it jitter or stop for a few seconds is when the autosave kicks in on a massive map
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15:28<@Terkhen>in my experience, lag in multiplayer is usually caused by maps that are too big or have too many vehicles running in processors that are not powerful enough
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16:11<CIA-1>OpenTTD: frosch * r22472 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: When a NewGRF assigned station properties 09 and/or 0A multiple times, the previously allocated sprite layouts were not freed.
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16:13-!-Mucht is "Martin Nussbaumer" on @#coopetition @#JJ @+#openttdcoop.association @#openttdcoop.dev #wwottdgd #openttd @#tycoon.de @#openttdcoop
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16:24<@planetmaker>[21:02] peter1138 does yacd handle automatic orders as expected? <-- I think 'automatic orders' is an unfortunate wording. We should rather call it 'implicit orders'
16:25<@planetmaker>as nothing is (automatically) added what isn't there before
16:25<@planetmaker>good evening also :-)
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16:29*Rubidium agrees
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16:52<ChoHag>What is done implicitely?
16:55<@Alberth>if a train visits a station without being told explicitly to do so, the station is added to the orders as implicit order
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16:57<ChoHag>Ah.
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16:58<George>Hi
16:58<George>Does action 14 support UTF?
16:58<@planetmaker>sure
16:58<George>http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ECSVTParTownVector
16:58<George>Do I use it correct?
16:59<@planetmaker>you use it the same way as with action4. Looks good
17:00<George>It does not work :(
17:00<George>I see ? instead of Þ
17:00<Rubidium>it might even be that the thorn is not ignored
17:01<Rubidium>that it just assumes it to be UTF8
17:01<@planetmaker>George: is your file actually encoded as utf-8?
17:02<George>You see the part of NFO there
17:02<George>it works for actions 4
17:03<George>Rubidium: Should I remove the thorn?
17:03<Rubidium>by the way, if a language doesn't translate a string you can leave it out. It should automagically take the default string
17:03*Thorn_ feels removed
17:03<frosch123>the way i read the code the thorn is also required for action 14
17:04<George>Do I need to provide a screen from r22471
17:05<gar>hey all
17:05<@Alberth>hi
17:05<gar>how u instal the zip achive?
17:06<@Alberth>unpack?
17:06<gar>after that
17:06<Rubidium>frosch123: if that's the case, then there should be absolutely no reason why action4 style strings don't work for action14
17:06<@Alberth>what zip archive? sources or something else?
17:06<gar>idono its from the site...
17:07<Rubidium>gar: start reading readme.txt
17:07<@Alberth>idono either, there are lots of files from the site
17:07<gar>there is none....
17:07<Rubidium>*especially* the sections about installing and running OpenTTD
17:07<Rubidium>gar: if there is none, which zip did you download?
17:08<frosch123>George: Rubidium: ogfx+trains puts thorns into the action 14, and i did not see thorns for it
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17:08<@Alberth>or even, from which site?
17:08<Rubidium>Alberth: I kinda expect an URI
17:08<George>FS#4618
17:09*Alberth expected a filename :)
17:10<George>frosch123: Should I add anything else?
17:12<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> what's wrong with long vehicles just bending? <-- it looks ugly
17:12<Rubidium>frosch123: does it really do that? As I can't quite find the place were it would be removed; it only happens in TranslateTTDPatchCodes, which AFAIK isn't called for action4
17:12<Rubidium>s/action4/action14/
17:12<frosch123>a14 calls AddGRFTextToList, which calls TranslateTTDPatchCodes
17:13<Rubidium>oh... multiple AddGRFTextToLists with different behaviour
17:17<George>Rubidium: NFO is correct?
17:18<frosch123>George: the nfo code in the fs task works fine for me
17:18<frosch123>no ?
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17:19<George>frosch123: do I need to attach the GRF?
17:19<gar>hey guys
17:19<gar>how u get new vehicls?
17:19<@planetmaker>they appear after some time.
17:19<frosch123>George: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/utf8.grf
17:19<@planetmaker>if you mean new models
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17:20<gar>yeah
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17:21<George>frosch123: Updated the FS#4618
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17:23<frosch123>George: it must be your editor
17:24<frosch123>in the grf is indeed a "?" instead of a thorn
17:24<frosch123>the editor did not save as utf 8
17:24<George>and the same editor works fine with action 4?
17:24<frosch123>if you would reload the file you would also see the "?" in the nfo
17:25<frosch123>George: no idea, just saying what is actually in the grf
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17:25<George>Very strange
17:25<George>Have to look
17:31<George>Strange. Closed OTTD, editor, reopened it, recompiled the GRF, everything is fine. FS#4618 can be closed
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17:34<frosch123>night
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17:39<George>night
17:40<andythenorth>why doesn't FIRS have a power station?
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>some idiot found them too boring
17:41<@Terkhen>andythenorth: please, keep the power station out
17:41<@Terkhen>the last time you started thinking about it the talks went on for months :P
17:42<@Terkhen>IIRC the conclusion was "it is just a steel mill that does not produce metal"
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>well, the original idea was to have power stations influence nearby industries, but afair that was dropped because NewGRF didn't give enough access
17:43<@Terkhen>oh, true
17:44<@Terkhen>I'm not sure if that would be a great idea, supplies already fulfill that role
17:44<andythenorth>I removed it because of the conclusion Terkhen mentioned
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>cargos could get TE_ENERGY
17:47<@Terkhen>http://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/Town_Control <--- this was linked a lot of times during these times, yes
17:47<andythenorth>yes
17:48<andythenorth>with YACD....I'm not sure I care about that stuff so much
17:48<andythenorth>:)
17:49<@Terkhen>you could pick up the "power plants produce energy cargo" idea and distribute the energy among towns :P
17:49<@Terkhen>in trucks of course
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17:57<Ammler>toyland cargo
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18:11<gamer>hello
18:11<gamer>can somone help me install this =\
18:15<@Yexo>perhaps
18:15<@Yexo>but not if you don't explain the troubles you have
18:16<gamer>oky
18:16<gamer>eerrmmm
18:16<gamer>i don;t get how to install the 3rd party stuff
18:16<@Yexo>opengfx?
18:17<@Yexo>or are you trying to install AIs / newgrfs?
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18:17<gamer>it couldn;t find the graphix
18:17<gamer>graphic set
18:17<@Yexo>are you using windows?
18:18<gamer>yeah vista
18:18<@Yexo>did you use the installer?
18:18<gamer>yeah
18:18<@Yexo>it should offer to automatically download and install the baseset
18:19<gamer>'nop....
18:19<@Yexo>oh well, go to http://www.openttd.org/download-opengfx
18:19<@Yexo>download the "Binary file for all platforms (zip archive)"
18:20<@Yexo>create (if it doesn't exist yet) Documents\OpenTTD\data and extract the zip file there
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18:24<gamer>nop
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18:25<@Yexo>...
18:25<@Yexo>really informative, that guy
18:26<@Terkhen>a proud member of the "clicking next until it is installed" generation
18:27*planetmaker *plops* another beer on this show ;-)
18:28<@planetmaker>popcorn is out, though
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>i just came from the cinema, i had popcorn
18:29<@planetmaker>:-)
18:29<Eddi|zuHause>"Priest", but the movie didn't quite keep what was promised...
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>and it's like 20 minutes too short
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18:41<@planetmaker>he, that IS short
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18:47<Eddi|zuHause>was kinda open ended, in the sense of "we can produce several sequels of this if it goes well"... but i'm quite afraid that it won't do well
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18:47<Eddi|zuHause>would have better suited as a TV series
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>spread the action scenes a little thinner, give the characters more depth and back-story, and you can get a whole season out of it
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18:57<@Terkhen>good night
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21:39<Wolf01>'night all
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---Logclosed Wed May 18 00:00:54 2011