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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-05-26

---Logopened Thu May 26 00:00:09 2011
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01:50<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:07<@planetmaker>moin
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03:25<dihedral>good morning :-)
03:25<dihedral>good morning Terkhen and planetmaker
03:25<@Terkhen>hi dihedral
03:25-!-DDR [~DDR@d99-199-10-67.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd
03:25<dihedral>"and i greet everybody who knows me" :-D
03:25<@planetmaker>hi dihedral
03:26<dihedral>:-)
03:26<@planetmaker>but... do we know you? ;-)
03:26<dihedral>hmmm
03:26<dihedral>we need another OpenTTD party :-D
03:26<@planetmaker>hm... NOT_REACHED() is evil :-P
03:26<dihedral>how about Ammlers place? :-)
03:28<@planetmaker>?
03:28<@planetmaker>oh
03:28<@planetmaker>yes
03:28<@planetmaker>good place
03:28<@planetmaker>wanted to have a short holiday there at *some stage* anyway ever since I drove to Pisa two years ago.
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03:37<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
03:37<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 8 weeks, 3 days, 8 hours, 15 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <Bjarni> thanks
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03:53<dihedral>i know another place which is nice for a holiday - but it's in the last little corner of CH
03:53<dihedral>and i could get access to a house there, which could easily accomodate all visitors :-)
03:54<dihedral>... the active part of the community who would be expected at such a party :-D
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05:30<fjb>Moin
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05:39<@Terkhen>hi fjb
05:39<fjb>Hi Terkhen
05:39<Wolf01>hello
05:39<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
05:40<fjb>Hi Wolf01
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05:54<@planetmaker>hi Wolf01 & fjb
05:54<fjb>Moin planetmaker
05:54<Wolf01>quak
05:54<@planetmaker>:-P quak only works for green rail frogs ;-)
05:55*dihedral chucks some bread crumbs around
05:56*planetmaker ponders... a separate grid sprite for each rail type... or not?
05:57<@peter1138>:S
05:57<@planetmaker>well... railtypes in the new sense don't need ti
05:57<@planetmaker>*it
05:57<@planetmaker>but the 3 traditional ones
05:58<@planetmaker>might. or might not
06:01*fjb has been away from OpenTTD for an while and hast to catch up with the new features.
06:02<Wolf01>what? new features?
06:06<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/index.php?folder=gridswitch/
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06:07<@planetmaker>mind, that those pngs named 'opengfx' are with my personal version of it. Current one would show grid lines similar to ttd base set
06:15<dihedral>interesting :-)
06:16*dihedral likes halfgrid :-)
06:17<@planetmaker>:-P
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06:17<@planetmaker>half grid is what is ttd default ;-)
06:18*planetmaker also likes 'no grid' though ;-)
06:18<@planetmaker>which is the whole motivation for me :-P
06:19<dihedral>no grid is interesting, yes
06:19<dihedral>but to me it seems like here and there parts of the grid are still visible
06:19<dihedral>or at least appear to be
06:20<@planetmaker>if you look at ttd*: sure
06:20<dihedral>i.e. at the oil well
06:20<@planetmaker>with the opengfx_no_grid: possibly in a few cases...
06:20<@planetmaker>yes, there. It has separate sprites which I didn't have w/o grid lines yet
06:21<@planetmaker>at least not activated
06:21<@planetmaker>I have them *somewhere*
06:21<dihedral>ah :-)
06:22<dihedral>it's definitely a nice change :-)
06:22<dihedral>you play with DM in 2090??
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06:22<@planetmaker>I play with my own "DM", it's a custom currency
06:22<@planetmaker>which translates 1:1 into GBP.
06:23<@planetmaker>(so that I see the untranslated costs)
06:23<@planetmaker>I guess I didn't set the euro conversion or so
06:23<@planetmaker>maybe I should call it euro straight away ;-)
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06:35<Eddi|zuHause>custom currency needs also custom transitions :p
06:39<@Terkhen>I always use euros
06:40<@peter1138>should allow decimals
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>if i wanted to play realistically from 1835 to 2010, i would need at least 5 currency transitions ;)
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08:55<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 74*7
08:55<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 518
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 5402/74
08:55<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 73
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 74*7*11
08:55<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 5698
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>@calc (74*7*11-5402-2*148)/2
08:56<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0
08:56<Eddi|zuHause>@calc (74*7*11-5402+2*148)/2
08:56<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 296
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09:12<@Belugas>hello
09:12<@Terkhen>hi Belugas
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09:19<@Belugas>sir Terkhen :)
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10:07<alluke>now where the hell can i dl australian landscape
10:07<alluke>cant find it anywhere
10:08<@planetmaker>I never heart of it.
10:08<@planetmaker>you'd need to try the usual places... forums, grfcrawler...
10:08<@planetmaker>IF it exists
10:09<alluke>searched both
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10:10<@planetmaker>and who says it even exists?
10:10<@planetmaker>you should then ask that person
10:10<alluke>i think he has quit
10:11<@Yexo>where did you read it exists?
10:11<alluke>ive seen only some screenshots
10:11<alluke>forums
10:11<alluke>the auslandw.grf should be available
10:11<@Yexo>which forums?
10:11<alluke>someone reported a bug
10:11<alluke>tt-forums
10:12<@Yexo>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=521848#p521848 here?
10:12<alluke>exactly
10:14<@Yexo>afaik that was never publiced, it was only distributed to a few testers
10:15<@planetmaker>a shame. I'd like to use them for the savannah climate for ogfx+landscape ;-)
10:15*SpComb requests DBSetXL 0.9
10:18<alluke>btw pm
10:18<alluke>when will you update opengfx+ ls with new coasts?
10:19<@planetmaker>It is already. Just not on bananas
10:19<alluke>okay
10:19<alluke>how about forests with new trees?
10:19<@planetmaker>yes
10:19<alluke>hah youve been fast
10:19<@planetmaker>that's not done ;-)
10:20<alluke>k
10:21<@planetmaker>except if you use opengfx+industries ;-)
10:21<alluke>or opengfx+ trees
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>don't forests automatically use the tree replacements?
10:21<@planetmaker>yes
10:21<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: nope
10:22<alluke>default forests dont work with stolen trees
10:22<alluke>ogfx+i ones do tho
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>hm... then i remember wrong... FIRS forests seem to work
10:22<alluke>they do too
10:22<alluke>and ecs
10:24<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: yes. Industry newgrfs all seem to use base set trees in their tile layouts. Then it works
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10:24<@planetmaker>That is all three, FIRS, ECS, OpenGFX+Industries do it that way
10:25<@planetmaker>but default forest has separate sprites
10:26<@planetmaker>http://mz.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/newgrf.php?1=2072:2080
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11:10<Eddi|zuHause>what's the code style concerning braces after "case X:"?
11:10<@planetmaker>none?
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11:13<@planetmaker>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/221/
11:16<@Terkhen>Eddi|zuHause: http://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_style#Control_flow <--- breaks and FALL THROUGHS must be placed as in this example
11:17<@Terkhen>besides that... nothing special I think
11:18<@planetmaker>what's the difference between 2 and 3? The empty line?
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>alright
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the variable declaration
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>local variables need an inner block
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>so the {} are needed there
11:19<alluke>swerails have brown tunnel tiles on alpine grass
11:19<alluke>is that fixable?
11:20<@Terkhen>hmm... that happened to me too
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>by detecting the grf-id of alpine (and probably also ogfx+landscape parameter)
11:20<@planetmaker>in principle yes. you use its custom - provided tunnel entrances?
11:20<@Terkhen>I assumed that I somehow changed the palette
11:20<@Terkhen>after changing the palette it was displayed fine
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>oh.. that kind of brown
11:20<@planetmaker>hu? well...
11:21<@Terkhen>since I tend to click too much I did not dig much into it :)
11:21<alluke>i have the new ogfx portals
11:21<@Terkhen>portals?
11:22<alluke>normal tunnel portals are temperate green
11:23<alluke>tunnel entrances
11:25<@Terkhen>planetmaker: it can be reproduced easily; swedish rails 0.6.0 + ogfx-landscape with alpine climate enabled on subarctic
11:25<@Terkhen>err, no, sorry :P
11:26<@Terkhen>hmm... I'll keep trying
11:27<@planetmaker>:-D
11:27<@planetmaker>grid / no grid issue?
11:28<@Terkhen>no, it seems to be displayed correctly with grid / no grid too
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11:28<@Terkhen>so I'm still inclined to think I messed up the palette somehow before creating my game :)
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11:31<alluke>just make the ground around the portal transparent and itll work
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11:46<@planetmaker>alluke: making the ground transparent doesn't work. Tunnels are a PITA in that respect and must match ground
11:54<alluke>pita?
11:54<@planetmaker>pain in the rear
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12:00<alluke>:D
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12:48<alluke>gah
12:49<alluke>is there a way to prevent cities building roads on tram tracks?
12:49<@Terkhen>no
12:49<@Terkhen>they are intended to go together
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12:50<alluke>yeah
12:50<alluke>but its fun to have few tram-only routes
12:50<alluke>like irl
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13:07<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: towns do not build on a tile if another parallel route is already nearby
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>where "nearby" depends on your road layout
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r22493 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 1 changes by Tucalipe
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13:56<andythenorth>hello
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14:02<ChoHag>Can conditional orders be used to make a vehicle wait for a half (or other non-zero) load?
14:04<Rubidium>not quite wait
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>there was a patch...
14:04<Rubidium>but it can be ordered to go back to that station
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>theoretically it would simply need calculation whether leaving the station will return the orders to that same station, and then wait for another loading step
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>it would be really useful with transfers, when capacities do not exactly match
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>e.g if train has 180t capacity and ship hsa 190t capacity
14:07<ChoHag>Yes. I've had to use the smallest available ships for some routes.
14:08<ChoHag>Even though they're slow.
14:11<ChoHag>And I don't suppose vehicles can be told if foo then jump to order bar, then back to here.
14:11<ChoHag>A gosub, rather than a goto.
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>no
14:12<ChoHag>Didn't look like it.
14:12<ChoHag>Oh well it was a nice thought.
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14:13<Eddi|zuHause>well, order lists don't tend to get _that_ complicated
14:14<ChoHag>No, but I have a collection of ships which visit half a dozen fishing grounds, it would be nice if, when full, they can drop off what they've collected so far and then go back to whichever part of the round they were in rather than starting again.
14:14<ChoHag>As it is, the first few on the list get visited more frequently.
14:15<ChoHag>It's hardly a major problem.
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14:32<@Yexo>ChoHag: what about this: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/225/
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14:33<@Yexo>it takes a few extra "go to dock" orders, but it can be done
14:36*JVassie_ thanks Yexo
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14:46<andythenorth>ChoHag: are you playing YACD?
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15:05<ChoHag>That looks like it would work.
15:05<ChoHag>andythenorth: Yes.
15:05<doug713705>Hi, is it possible to start a server (dedicated/command line) to start with one of the scenario provided with openTTD ? I know the -g parameter but I'm unable to find the name for the scenario !
15:05<ChoHag>Getting rid of the 'go to the furthest consumer industry' has made it far more interesting.
15:06<ChoHag>And add FIRS into the mix and trains become much less useful for a lot of routes, so you have to use a much wider mix of transport types
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15:06<ChoHag>Bugs abound, but it's very promising.
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15:08<andythenorth>ChoHag: for neighbouring fishing grounds, try using small boats running back and forth between 2 fishing grounds with a timetable
15:09<andythenorth>and a larger boat delivering to a harbour
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15:09<andythenorth>if you connect all the nodes, it works well
15:12<doug713705>I'll try to a bit clearer, I try to start an openttd server with this command line : openttd -D xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx -f -c ./.openttd/openttd.cfg -g "France" but it fails with "dbg: [net] Loading requested map failed, aborting"
15:12<doug713705>Is it possible and how to start openttd with the France scenario (the one embedded with openttd) ?
15:14<ChoHag>It looks like -g should refer to a filename.
15:15<doug713705>Yes ChoHag but I didn't find the france scenario in openttd data
15:16<doug713705>That's why I ask if it is possible to start with one of the 'embedded' scenario
15:16<ChoHag>There are embedded scenarios?
15:16<doug713705>Hmm, I thik so. When installing it, some scenario are already here ;-)
15:17<doug713705>think*
15:19<doug713705>I mean one of the scenario in the scenario list you choose from when clicking on "play scenario" at start (approx tanslation, i'm french).
15:20<ChoHag>It will be a file somewhere.
15:20<ChoHag>find /usr/share/games (or whatever) -iname france\*
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>DiagDirection dir = TrackdirToExitdir(TrackToTrackdir(RemoveFirstTrack(&tracks))); <-- i think there should be a shortcut to this, but i can't find one
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15:21<ChoHag>Yexo: That works a treate.
15:21<doug713705>ChoHag : I already try to find in the whose /usr ! no success
15:21<ChoHag>treat
15:22<doug713705>whole*
15:24<doug713705>I think the 'embedded scenario' are stacked in a binary file. That's why I ask if it's possible to start one of them, and if yes, how.
15:24<@Yexo>doug713705: try ~/.openttd/content_download/scenarios/
15:24<@Yexo>probably inside a tar file
15:24<@Yexo>I'm not sure, but it probably is possible to start them
15:24<@Yexo>use -g file.scn as argument, disregard the tar file entirely
15:24<@Yexo>so for france.tar/france.scn use -g france.scn
15:25<doug713705>I also tried to start a game with that scenario and saved it then tried to pass the saved file to the -g parameter but log says the file is corrupt or something similar
15:25<@Yexo>again, use -g filename.sav and it should work
15:26<doug713705>It did not !!
15:26<@Yexo>if that doesn't work, open a bug report at bugs.openttd.org with the exact error message
15:26<@Yexo>"file is corrupt or something similar" is not precise enough
15:26<doug713705>I'm relayy confuse, I read the doc many times without understanding why it fails
15:28<doug713705>WTF !!!! It works now with the saved file !!! I tried many times without succes !!!
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15:33<doug713705>Ok, here is my fault, according to the wiki I passed the scenario file name within double-quote. This is not necessary
15:33<doug713705>Here is what is found on the wiki : You can also load savegames and scenarios with the -g "<filename>", command line option.
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15:34<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/savannah.png <-- hm, I guess that green as desert replacement is not optimal ;-)
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15:35<Cyberdot>hi there
15:35<doug713705>Thank you for your help Yexo and ChoHag
15:35<Cyberdot>can you help me about passenger in openttd?
15:37<@planetmaker>hi
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15:37<@Yexo>hello Cyberdot
15:37<@Yexo>what help do you want?
15:38<Cyberdot>the coverage of a station over a town have an impact on passengers and mail output?
15:38<Cyberdot>more coverage, more passengers going in and out?
15:39<@Yexo>yes
15:39<@Yexo>every house can generate passengers
15:39<Cyberdot>i can i calculate that?
15:39<@Yexo>so the more houses you cover the more passengers
15:39<Cyberdot>*how can
15:39<@Yexo>tile info on a tile will give the amount of passengers it can generate
15:39<@Yexo>sum of all amounts you've covered / sum of all amounts in one town
15:40<@Yexo>so not really feasible to calculate manually
15:40<Cyberdot>so, say an house have passengers 2/8 means i will have 2 passengers going to train?
15:40<@planetmaker>nah. That is the acceptance
15:40<@planetmaker>the amount of inhabitants is proportional to the generation
15:41<@planetmaker>you need at least 8/8 acceptance of a cargo in order to be able to deliver it to a station
15:41<@planetmaker>sum over all station coverage again
15:41<Cyberdot>the house will accept two passangers from the train in that situation?
15:41<@planetmaker>no. infinite
15:41<@Yexo>there is no limit on acceptance
15:42<@Yexo>the total coverage of your station will need to include at least 8/8 passengers before it will accept any of them, but that's the only limit
15:42*planetmaker would like to suggest a look at our wiki
15:43<Cyberdot>that part i already knew, but i don't know how to estimate the real numbers of passengers going to train
15:43<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Catchment_area and friends
15:43<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Cargo_delivery_to_stations
15:44<Cyberdot>i don't saw that page in the manual xD
15:45<@Yexo>that's a shame, the Game mechanics wiki page is one of the best wiki pages we have
15:45<@planetmaker>the town view will give you an estimate for the max total of that town. per month
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15:47<Cyberdot>btw, the last month output means that in that month if i already had collected that many passengers the rest of the month the train would leave empty?
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15:48<Cyberdot>i mean, if i had that number in passengers before reaching the end of the month, the next train stopping there before the end of the said month would leave the station empty?
15:48<@Yexo>Cyberdot: no, it simply wasn't possible to get that many passengers before the end of the month
15:49<@Yexo>the cargo is generated no matter how many trains you have
15:50<Cyberdot>i see. that means that each day the town will generate x passengers, wich in the end of the month would totalize that number, right?
15:51<@planetmaker>approx. yes
15:52<Cyberdot>i see. thanks
15:52<Cyberdot>btw, for whoever made that remake of ttd, it's a really great job
15:53<Cyberdot>it gone open source without losing the feeling of the original
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15:57<Chris_Booth>anyone know why my 2.0 length trains are slowing down in a corner 2 tiles long?
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16:00<@planetmaker>maybe the curve is actually only 1.5?
16:00<Chris_Booth>no its 2.0 planetmaker, V453000 said is Tropic Set
16:00<Chris_Booth>has something funny
16:02<Cyberdot_>i have another question. how do you remove add-ons that you have downloaded. openttd don't have a button to remove them
16:02<@planetmaker>use your file manager
16:03<Cyberdot_>sure, but i can't find where the files are stored
16:04<Cyberdot_>i'm using kubuntu, btw
16:05<@planetmaker>~/.openttd
16:06<@planetmaker>the readme has section 4.2 on where files are stored ;-)
16:06<Cyberdot_>xD thanks for the hint.
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16:11<@Yexo>Cyberdot_: press ctrl+h to show hidden files (= files and directories starting with a dot)
16:12<Cyberdot_>thx :) it surely keeps me from having to hide/unhide everytime from the menu
16:13*andythenorth wonders how to get a dev environment for the openttd django projects
16:14<JVassie>Yexo, did you see my last reply in the BMSS thread? :)
16:15<@Yexo>do you have a link?
16:15<JVassie>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=49628&start=100
16:15<@Yexo>not yet, now I did :)
16:15<@Terkhen>what are the openttd django projects?
16:15<JVassie>:p
16:16<@Yexo>yes, that can work the same
16:16<JVassie>cool
16:16<andythenorth>Terkhen: the website, some of bananas
16:16<@Terkhen>oh :)
16:16<JVassie>and regarding the possible checks?
16:16<andythenorth>dunno about others (translator?)
16:16<@Yexo>JVassie: see http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=VarAction2Stations
16:16<@Yexo>and add "type of cargo that appears the most" and "amount of that cargo" and "total amount of cargo"
16:17<@Yexo>and a few random bits
16:17<@Yexo>and every possible calculation you can think of based on those values
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16:18<JVassie>shall have a peruse
16:18<@Yexo>you can see here all the graphic files for chips: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/chips/file/tip/sprites/graphics
16:19<@Yexo>click on the filename, than on "raw" at the top to see them in your browser
16:19<andythenorth>hmm
16:19<andythenorth>I should draw more for CHIPs
16:19<andythenorth>when I next play a game...I'll add more cargos
16:19<JVassie>how do you view them Yexo?
16:19<@Yexo>click on "buffer.png", than on "raw" at the top
16:19<andythenorth>like he said
16:19<@Yexo>top right
16:20<JVassie>ta
16:20<JVassie>wow
16:20<JVassie>so the more you break it up
16:20<JVassie>the less sprites needed
16:20<andythenorth>Yexo: can a tile choose the ground sprite dynamically, based on content of other tiles?
16:20<@Yexo>andythenorth: yes
16:20<andythenorth>without you going insane?
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16:21<JVassie>are there any tools that can code stations aside from plain nfo?
16:21<@Yexo>if frosch commits his patch one of these days and you don't mind the set becoming nightly only (until openttd 1.2) it's fine
16:21<andythenorth>ok
16:21<andythenorth>does nml have stations yet?
16:21<@Yexo>JVassie: perhaps grfmaker, no idea if that does stations
16:21<@Yexo>nml still doesn't have stations
16:21<JVassie>in theory it does
16:21<JVassie>never tried it though
16:21<JVassie>i only wrote a guide for trains
16:21<@Yexo>neither did I
16:21<andythenorth>Yexo: I'm thinking of sometime adding some buildings / structures that you only want a few of
16:22<andythenorth>such as a mineral loader
16:22<andythenorth>it would be best if it could match whatever other ground sprites are commonly used
16:22<andythenorth>with only one entry in menu for that item
16:22<JVassie>Yexo, is there anywhere you know of i could find a fairly simple and well annotated piec of nfo and acompanying gfx for a station tile?
16:23<@Yexo>andythenorth: station var 68, no problem at all
16:23<@Yexo>don't need frosch patch for that, so it can easily become compatible with 1.1
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16:24<andythenorth>Yexo: cool
16:24<andythenorth>I'll think of what might be good to include
16:24<andythenorth>doesn't need too much
16:24<andythenorth>maybe should go in a different station class
16:24<@Yexo>JVassie: this simple and commented enough? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/227/
16:24<andythenorth>'CHIPS magic tiles' / 'CHIPS not-magic tiles' :P
16:25<JVassie>depends on definition of simple really :P
16:25<@Yexo>only if there is more than one of such a tile
16:25<andythenorth>there might be
16:25<andythenorth>I'll think on
16:25<JVassie>ill take a look Yexo, thanks
16:26<JVassie>wait
16:26<JVassie>when could we use .ong
16:26<JVassie>*.png
16:26<JVassie>*since when
16:26<@Yexo>since quite some time
16:26<JVassie>dang im outta date here
16:26<JVassie>saves me some effort
16:26<@Yexo>a year or so? can't remember
16:26<JVassie>heh
16:27<@Yexo>24 oktober 2010
16:27<JVassie>fair enough :)
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16:27<JVassie>are the files themselves available?
16:28<@Yexo>which files?
16:28<JVassie>referenced in the nfo you pasted for me
16:28<@Yexo>oh, they're probably part of the firs repository
16:28<@Yexo>so check the link I gave earlier
16:29<andythenorth>[chips repository] ;)
16:29*andythenorth now makes that mistake often
16:29<@Yexo>yes, of course, chips repository
16:29<andythenorth>JVassie: have you got mercurial vcs installed?
16:29<JVassie>mercury wha
16:29<JVassie>:p
16:29<@Yexo>=hg
16:29<JVassie>negative mate
16:29<andythenorth>nvm
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>need alpha testers: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_crossings_1.diff (drawing rails doesn't work yet, but catenary does)
16:30<andythenorth>ooh
16:30<andythenorth>code :)
16:30<@Yexo>I was about to ask what it should do...
16:30*andythenorth gets very demoralised when there's no new code :)
16:30<JVassie>diagonal crossings, nice
16:30<JVassie>:D
16:30<@Yexo>that was before I read the filename :p
16:30<JVassie>used to use them many years ago
16:30<JVassie>shame the project died
16:30<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: next stop: diagonal roads :P
16:31<@Terkhen>NewDiagonalStuff :)
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: this is old diagonal stuff ;)
16:31<JVassie>custim bridgeheads pls
16:31<JVassie>:p
16:31<andythenorth>hmm
16:31<@Terkhen>:P
16:31<JVassie>*custom
16:31<@Yexo>diagonal stations!
16:31<andythenorth>how do I apply the diff?
16:31<JVassie>YES
16:31<@planetmaker>whiching hour? Cool!
16:31<JVassie>diagonal stations would be win
16:31<andythenorth>normally I apply a patch with curl http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_crossings_1.diff | patch -p1
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: with "patch -p1"
16:32<andythenorth>I shouldn't need to download it locally?
16:32<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I'm playing FIRS now BTW
16:32<@Terkhen>the lime kiln is fun
16:32<andythenorth>Terkhen: with yacd?
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: what does not work?
16:32<@Terkhen>no, 1.1.1-RC1
16:33<andythenorth>patch: **** Only garbage was found in the patch input.
16:33<JVassie>Yexo, that nfo looks mighty different to what I remember it looking like
16:33<andythenorth>Terkhen: in my games there are too many lime kilns generated
16:33<@Terkhen>well, yes
16:33<@Yexo>JVassie: did you look at station nfo before?
16:33<@Yexo>it's quite different from other features
16:33<@Terkhen>one of them (the one I use) is fun, the others are just in the middle of whatever you want to build :P
16:33<JVassie>never have tbh
16:33<@Yexo>mainly because the action0 references real sprites
16:34<JVassie>just the general syntax though
16:34<@Terkhen>but mostly I'm abusing metal as usual
16:34<JVassie>/Basic layout without a buffer
16:34<JVassie>\dx000003F4 // custom ground sprite
16:34<JVassie>00 00 00 // x/y/z offset
16:34<JVassie>10 05 04 // x/y/z extent
16:34<JVassie>for example
16:34<JVassie>the \dx000003F4
16:34<@Yexo>\dx000003F4 is the same as F4 03 00 00
16:34<andythenorth>Terkhen: enable yacd :P
16:34<@Yexo>but imo much easier to read
16:34<JVassie>hmm
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: weird... i don't know what should be wrong there
16:34<@Terkhen>thanks, but I'm fine with dumping all the cargo in the map to the single point :)
16:35<@Yexo>you could also write \wx3F4 \w0, that's also the same :)
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and before i forget: needs http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=53483
16:35<JVassie>and \dx means?
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>(even though that is not actually used yet)
16:35<@Terkhen>Eddi|zuHause, andythenorth: when I get that error message with patch, I usually downloaded html code instead of a real diff file
16:35<@planetmaker>JVassie: \d means 4 bytes follow (double word)
16:35<@planetmaker>x means: hexadecimal notation
16:36<JVassie>thanks planetmaker
16:36<@planetmaker>\w = word = two bytes
16:36<@planetmaker>\b = byte
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16:36<@planetmaker>much easier to use for actual values which are not nfo IDs or properties
16:36<JVassie>and if its more than 4 bytes?
16:36<@Yexo>JVassie: see http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFActionsDetailed
16:36<JVassie>or wont it be?
16:36<@planetmaker>that doesn't exist
16:37<@Yexo>you can use \d multiple times, but there is no single escape to write more than 4 bytes
16:37<@planetmaker>you use \d for example for the long introduction date
16:37<@planetmaker>or \w. I forgot ;-)
16:37<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I'll declare sad face and do something else then :\
16:37<@planetmaker>more than \d doesn't make sense as newgrfs don't handle larger numbers anyway
16:37<JVassie>Quite hard to understand :p
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well have you downloaded the file then?
16:38<JVassie>what this nfo does
16:39<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: looks like that might work - got some hunk failures now, but fixing
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>hm... curl doesn't follow the redirect
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>try http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_crossings_1.diff then
16:40<JVassie>is Notepad++ ok for writing .nfo in?
16:40<@Yexo>JVassie: yes, it was hard for me too when I started with coding stations :)
16:40<@planetmaker>JVassie: yes
16:40<@Yexo>best advise I can give is to try and copy a few small examples and try to edit them
16:40<JVassie>yeah
16:40<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: what version of trunk is it against?
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>lemme check
16:40<@Yexo>after that write something as small as possible from scratch (using the old examples as reference)
16:40<JVassie>trying to find the files mentioned so I can just try creatign a .grf from whats there
16:40<JVassie>just to check it works
16:41<JVassie>and then go from there
16:41<@Yexo>it misses an action8
16:41<@Yexo>http://hg.openttdcoop.org/chips/raw-file/e0b7c78e1b5d/sprites/graphics/buffer.png
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: ah wait, needs http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/adjacent_crossings.diff applied first
16:41-!-Amis [~Amis@catv-89-135-77-239.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: *pop*]
16:41<@Yexo>http://hg.openttdcoop.org/chips/raw-file/e0b7c78e1b5d/sprites/graphics/groundtiles.png
16:41<JVassie>oh they're chips files? not firs?
16:41<JVassie>:p
16:42<@Yexo>yes, sorry :)
16:42<JVassie>no worries
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>eurgs, 404
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: link works now
16:43<JVassie>so a checklist, notepad++, grfcodec, and the latest version of nforenum
16:43<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: patched ok
16:44<@Yexo>JVassie: grfcodec and nforenum are in a single package now
16:44<@Yexo>http://www.openttd.org/en/download-grfcodec <- download there
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and put this into data dir: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=53483
16:44<JVassie>thx :)
16:44<JVassie>still command line driven?
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16:45<@Yexo>yes, and unlikely to change
16:45<JVassie>no worries
16:45<JVassie>have used it (and old version) recently
16:45<JVassie>to decode canstations incidentally
16:46<JVassie>to see how they laid out sprites etc
16:46<@planetmaker>JVassie: but you have the recent grfcodec / nforenum 5.1.1 or similar, yes?
16:46<JVassie>just downloaded it
16:46<JVassie>i didtn before
16:46<JVassie>*didnt
16:46<@planetmaker>ok :-)
16:46*andythenorth would like a faster compiler
16:47<andythenorth>maybe it's time for a new mac :|
16:47<@planetmaker>just checking as old(er) versions might give you issues which are hard to understand when one assumes a newer version
16:47<@planetmaker>lol @ andythenorth
16:47<@planetmaker>andythenorth: when you compile more often, it helps to use ccache
16:47<andythenorth>??
16:47<@planetmaker>./configure --with-ccache
16:48<@planetmaker>but you need it have installed
16:48<@planetmaker>it's a compiler cache of sorts
16:48<@planetmaker>also, you save time, if you use the llvm-gcc42
16:48<@planetmaker>it's faster than the plain gcc42
16:48<andythenorth>maybe I should update those
16:48<@planetmaker>you can switch compilers via gcc_select
16:48<andythenorth>it's only a problem when I do something like hg revert --all
16:49<andythenorth>otherwise it's usually just a few seconds
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>aren't they at like gcc 4.6 yet?
16:49<@Yexo>yes
16:49<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: yes. But ... that doesn't handle the apple specifics
16:49<@planetmaker>thus with my gcc 4.5 I have, I can't compile OpenTTD
16:50<@planetmaker>it misses the patches to the frameworks etc
16:50<andythenorth>is ncrossings.grf a valid grf?
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: no, it's a base grf, not a newgrf
16:51<andythenorth>ah
16:51<andythenorth>problem solved then
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16:56<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so you didn't implement rvs stopping at diagonal crossings yet? :D
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i haven't checked road vehicle behaviour yet
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16:56<andythenorth>there's an interesting corner case (literally)
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: they likely stop in the middle of the crossing
16:59<andythenorth>maybe
16:59<JVassie>Yexo, I must add -p2 when encoding / decodign still for windows?
16:59<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: there's no bug with this afaik - it's just an interesting possibility :) http://tt-foundry.com/misc/corner_case.png
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>JVassie: DOS is the "better" one ;)
17:00<JVassie>meaning? :)
17:00<andythenorth>more grey shades iirc
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>it has more colours and they are more sensibly arranged
17:00<JVassie>so I should encode for DOS?
17:00<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: why don't you add it to the base grf straight away? As example I can offer this to you: http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/gridswitch/010_add_grid_sprites.diff
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>Windows is the "screwed up" one
17:00<@Yexo>all colours in the WIN palette are also in the DOS palette, the other way around is not true
17:01<@Yexo>so just use action14, specify the correct palette and if you start from scratch start using the DOS palette
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i have just taken the old grf from Maedhros, i did not touch it
17:01<JVassie>right.. :D
17:01<@planetmaker>well, decode, take nfo and add sprites. Better and not more difficult
17:01<@planetmaker>and you have straight away how it "should be" ;-)
17:02<JVassie>ill find chips .grf
17:02<@planetmaker>JVassie: I didn't mean you ;-)
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but that also means only people with grfcodec will be able to compile the patch
17:02<JVassie>oh
17:02<JVassie>:x
17:02<@planetmaker>JVassie: you should take the original source files and NOT de-compile the grf
17:02<@Yexo>JVassie: if you have the original png files like you it's easier to use instead of decompiling another grf
17:02<JVassie>:)
17:02<JVassie>gotcha
17:02-!-Vikthor [~Vikthor@78-80-200-5.tmcz.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:02<@Yexo>only eddi didn't have the original source files, just a grf
17:03<JVassie>just looking at how to add an action 8
17:03<@Yexo>copy from a random other grf and modify the grfid
17:03<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: not really. Just provide the changed openttd.grf. And make that a (non-necessary) pre-requisite patch
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: maybe later, when i actually got drawing working ;)
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so you built rail over road corners? that shouldn't be possible...
17:04<andythenorth>no no
17:04<andythenorth>it's not
17:04<andythenorth>it works as it should
17:06<andythenorth>grr
17:07<andythenorth>road is still drawn under tram tracks
17:07<andythenorth>I tried to fix that once
17:07<andythenorth>I think I actually had a patch for it
17:08<andythenorth>any suggestions for structures for CHIPS?
17:09<@planetmaker>coal chutes
17:09<@planetmaker>or general ore chutes
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm... crash when converting rail...
17:10<@planetmaker>and... palettes of fruits and vegies
17:10<@planetmaker>and barrels of beer
17:10<andythenorth>planetmaker: barrels of beer I'll add soon - they will look about same as milk barrels
17:10<@planetmaker>though... barrels could just be barrels and use a re-colour property
17:10<andythenorth>so can do for same
17:10<@planetmaker>^ for that reason ;-)
17:11<@planetmaker>an installation to fill liquids into tank wagons?
17:11<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: http://ns-research.scotts-dale-division.net/03-Industry-Research/mines/0495-Sprouse-creek/DSC_1264.JPG
17:11<andythenorth>?
17:12<@planetmaker>that's a totally missing thing everywhere. No where tank wagons can be loaded properly
17:12<andythenorth>planetmaker: good point
17:12<andythenorth>there's an oil station in ISR
17:12<andythenorth>it's old and massively out of scale
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: what?
17:12<andythenorth>sorry
17:12<@planetmaker>yes... but it has no means to properly fill those. It has tanks and stuff. But no pipes to the wagons ;-)
17:12<andythenorth>wrong highlight :P
17:12<andythenorth>that was intended for planetmaker sorry
17:13<andythenorth>planetmaker: adding the pipes I think will be tricky for different wagon sets
17:13<JVassie>Processing file.. does nto appear to be an .nfo file..
17:13<JVassie>hmm :x
17:13<JVassie>*not
17:14<@planetmaker>yes... that's true.... but one can assume that a tank wagon is filled from the top and stops in the middle of a half-tile :-P
17:14<@planetmaker>JVassie: did you run nforenum before?
17:14<@planetmaker>always do that ;-)
17:15<JVassie>how do you mean
17:15<JVassie>just dbl click the exe?
17:15<@planetmaker>nope...
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17:15<JVassie>all so complicated >.<
17:15<@planetmaker>nforenum blub.nfo
17:16<@planetmaker>grfcodec blub.nfo
17:16<@planetmaker>hm... grfcodec blub.grf
17:16<JVassie>-d oe -e
17:16<JVassie>*or
17:16<JVassie>no?
17:16<Rubidium>andythenorth: chips shop?
17:16<andythenorth>potato storage?
17:17<andythenorth>chip shop could be on the 'station concourse'
17:17<JVassie>so confusing :(
17:18<@planetmaker>Yes, something. nforenum blub.nfo && grfcodec -e -c blub.grf
17:18<andythenorth>planetmaker: http://www.carbis.net/products/view/rail_multiple_hatches
17:18<@planetmaker>andythenorth: yes, I've been thinking of something similar indeed
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: cumulative update for convert rail crash: http://users.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_crossings_1a.diff
17:20<andythenorth>time for bed
17:20<@planetmaker>good night :-)
17:20<andythenorth>(for andythenorth - optional for rest of you)
17:20<andythenorth>:)
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17:37*JVassie concedes defeat
17:37<JVassie>will take another look at it tomorrow Yexo
17:42-!-KouDy [~KouDy@ip-89-176-248-202.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:44<JVassie>or now
17:44<JVassie>Ameecher abandoned me
17:44<@planetmaker>hu?
17:45<JVassie>Ameecher
17:46-!-r0b0tb0y [~robotboy@CPE-58-173-41-16.nxzp1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:47<@planetmaker>well, I know that name ;-) I just wonder how that relates to your newgrf coding ;-)
17:47<JVassie>well
17:48<JVassie>i have literally *just* managed to get my router configured
17:48<JVassie>so we can do some multiplayer
17:48<JVassie>then he announces hes orf to the pub
17:48<@planetmaker>:-D
17:48-!-Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit []
17:49<JVassie>so yeah
17:49<JVassie>im back to coding
17:49<JVassie>and crying
17:49<JVassie>and pulling my hair out
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17:56<@Yexo>did you manage to get that test file working?
17:56<@Terkhen>if you are not doing that while coding then you are doing it wrong :)
17:57<@Terkhen>if everything seems to be fine... expect the worst
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18:03<@planetmaker>JVassie: something which should compile: get HEQS source bundle http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/releases/LATEST/ and unzip / tar it. Then get also the heqs pre-processed nfo file http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/heqs/releases/LATEST/log/heqs.nfo
18:04<JVassie>:D
18:04<@planetmaker>put that in the folder which was created by the heqs source bundle
18:04<JVassie>and try and encode it
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18:04<@planetmaker>if then grfcodec -e heqs.grf works, you know that it in principle works. yes
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18:12<JVassie>woohoo
18:12<ChoHag>I'm going to bed, but before I do there's an announcement I must make to all and sundry.
18:12<ChoHag>Ubuntu is shit.
18:13<JVassie>planetmaker, where should i extract the heqs folder to?
18:13<JVassie>within sprites foldeR?
18:13<@planetmaker>na, completely separate
18:13<@planetmaker>it's a new newgrf
18:13<JVassie>so folder withing grfcodec file?
18:14<JVassie>or even further up?
18:14<JVassie>*within grfcodec folder
18:15<@planetmaker>hm... the best solution is to have grfcodec and nforenum in your search path. Somewhere in c:\programmes\. And your grfs in C:\my files\...
18:15<JVassie>hmm
18:15<@planetmaker>for now though, just unzip the heqs and copy grfcodec and nforenum into that folder then, too
18:16<@planetmaker>but that's actually disgusting ;-)
18:16<JVassie>xD
18:16<JVassie>dont care as logn as it works
18:17<@planetmaker>well. you *should* care. As the proper way makes it LOTS easier in the middle run
18:17<@planetmaker>you don't copy word.exe into each dir where you write a text file either, do you?
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18:18<JVassie>xD
18:18<JVassie>but word isnt command line :p
18:18<JVassie>so a full example please of a path for grfcodec and for where the nfo file shuld be pls?
18:19<@planetmaker>yes, and it's not blue either.
18:19<@Terkhen>ubuntu is not that bad... until you try to do something "different" with it
18:20<JVassie>atm
18:20<JVassie>i have C:/Games/TT/GRFCodec/grfcodec.exe
18:21<@planetmaker>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/228/ <-- the dir with heqs should look similar
18:22<@planetmaker>if your grfcodec and nforenum are not in your search path (as they probably aren't), you need to copy them there.
18:22<@planetmaker>But better you add them to your search path. Then no need to copy...
18:22<@planetmaker>But I can't tell you how, I've no clue about windows
18:24<JVassie>search path?
18:27-!-sllide [~jari@ip565eb113.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:28<@planetmaker>where windows looks for programmes
18:28<@planetmaker>but I shall follow andy's lead now... though to another bed ;-)
18:28<JVassie>heh
18:29<@planetmaker>good nighthttp://www.computerhope.com/issues/ch000549.htm <-- something like that
18:29<@planetmaker>anyway, good night :-)
18:30<JVassie>nn
18:30<JVassie>thx for the help
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19:17<@Terkhen>good night
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the example you gave is missing information on how to add a new action 5 block, and in how far that relates to the order within sprites.h
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>(note that what i put there was totally guessed anyway)
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19:29<Eddi|zuHause>(i think i figured it out)
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>hm... why doesn't it detect my grfcodec and nforenum?
19:39<Chris_Booth>it hates you Eddi|zuHause
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19:59<Eddi|zuHause>@base 10 16 52
19:59<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 34
20:01<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i see, nforenum bails out on the undefined action 5 type...
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---Logclosed Fri May 27 00:00:12 2011