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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-06-25

---Logopened Sat Jun 25 00:00:13 2011
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02:21<pikka>hi andy
02:27<andythenorth>hola pikka
02:27<andythenorth>is it bedtime?
02:27<pikka>nope
02:27<pikka>I'm sitting in a pub with orudge
02:27*andythenorth is watching chuggington
02:27<andythenorth>chuggington is not as good as I hoped
02:28*andythenorth is sitting on a sofa with 1x sick child
02:28<pikka>and stevenh, raichase, whitehand, and robotboy
02:28<andythenorth>it's a gathering
02:28<andythenorth>bet you're not watching chuggington
02:28<pikka>chuggington isn't so good its true
02:30<andythenorth>it's a bit like watching a talking version of Railroad Tycoon 3
02:30<pikka>indeed
02:31<andythenorth>definite uncanny valley effect on the human character
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03:53<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:53<Wolf01>hello
03:54*Alberth waves hi
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05:10<andythenorth>will something exciting happen today?
05:11<@Terkhen>I'm testing important stuff so... I hope not :P
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05:35<Spenger>hi
05:35<@Alberth>hi
05:35<Spenger>how are you?
05:36<@Alberth>pondering lunch
05:36<@planetmaker>launch! ;-)
05:36-!-Spenger [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit []
05:37<@planetmaker>hello :-)
05:37<@Alberth>hi planetmaker
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05:48<fjb>Moin
05:48<@Alberth>moin
05:48<fjb>Moin Alberth
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07:26<ZirconiumX>Hello all
07:27<@Terkhen>hi ZirconiumX
07:27<ZirconiumX>Hi Terkhen
07:28<ZirconiumX>How are you
07:28*ZirconiumX is runnig dangerously low on greeting etc.
07:29*ZirconiumX can't spell either
07:30*Alberth gives ZirconiumX some coffee
07:31<ZirconiumX>thanks Alberth
07:31*ZirconiumX doesn't like coffee
07:31<ZirconiumX>I do - just not the horrible fairtrade stuff that has an aftertaste that stays for an hour or two
07:32*ZirconiumX prefers Cona Coffee
07:32<@Terkhen>fighting with bugs in libraries :) (translation: not doing anything fun)
07:33<ZirconiumX>cheating and looking in someone else's code (translation: It's OK,
07:33<ZirconiumX>Terkhen)
07:34<ZirconiumX>:p
07:34<ZirconiumX>Well - _mostly_ someone else's work
07:37*ZirconiumX is rewriting magic for the third time with assertions and something that actually works
07:40<@Alberth>the latter is useful :)
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07:40<ZirconiumX>the second one worked - but was based on someone else's code
07:41<ZirconiumX>which is useless if you want to say it's MINE
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07:41*Terkhen usually don't mind as long as it's done
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07:43<ZirconiumX>What's the difference between an int blah, an int *blah, and an int &blah
07:43<ZirconiumX>in C++
07:43<ZirconiumX>or C
07:44<ZirconiumX>whatever
07:45<@Terkhen>hmm... too long to explain here (specially pointers); you should check a C/C++ tutorial or book
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07:56<@Alberth>int blah1 holds an int, int *blah2 holds a pointer to such an int, and int &blah3 is a reference, it behaves as an int, but uses a pointer internally
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07:58<ZirconiumX>thanks Alberth
07:59<@Alberth>unfortunately, my explanation does not make much sense unless you understand pointers
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08:09<ashmir>hi guys. I'm searching for the parametters of the command newgame, can someone help me?
08:10<@Alberth>no idea what you are talking about
08:10<ashmir>rcon pwd newgame a b c d for example
08:10<@Alberth>oh in the console perhaps?
08:10<ashmir>but i dont know what's abcd
08:10<ashmir>yes
08:11<@Terkhen>ashmir: use "help newgame"
08:11<@Alberth>but that just gives a single optional argument 'seed'
08:12<ashmir>yes :/
08:12<@Terkhen>does it have more parameters?
08:12<@Alberth>I am guessing that 'rcon' is something else
08:12<@Alberth>Terkhen nope
08:12<@Terkhen>rcon is used to send commands to the server
08:13<ZirconiumX>r(emote) con(trol)
08:13<@Terkhen>but the right syntax is: rcon pwd "newgame a"
08:13<ZirconiumX>rcon
08:13<@Alberth>by what? that's what should document the parameters
08:14<ZirconiumX>us
08:14*Terkhen is a bit lost :)
08:14*Alberth gives Terkhen a few bits
08:14<ZirconiumX>PM please explain to Alberth, how openttdcoop uses rcon to create a new game
08:15<ZirconiumX>planetmaker appears to be busy
08:15<@Alberth>ok, so it is another console command :p
08:16<@Terkhen>yes
08:16<@Alberth>well, ashmir, it seems to have only one new parameter, not 4
08:16<Chris_Booth>Alberth !rcon in openttdcoop is a command used to tell autopilot what to do
08:16<Chris_Booth>rcon typed into the game console is different
08:16<ashmir>i used rcon ****** newgame 0 9 9 0 for example, it generate a temperate new game with many towns and industries
08:16<Chris_Booth>and most the commands that the both use are different
08:16<@Terkhen>ashmir: newgame has only a single parameter, the seed
08:17<ZirconiumX>maybe 0 means ransom seed
08:17<@Terkhen>for configuring the other parts of new game creation you must configure each setting before using newgame
08:17<ZirconiumX>random seed
08:17<@Alberth>ashmir: so you use another piece of software with an rcon command; you should ask its author
08:18<ashmir>ok, thank you.
08:18<@Alberth>or better, submit a documentation patch to them :)
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08:33<ZirconiumX>Hmmm
08:33<ZirconiumX>Ice cream man must be insane
08:34<ZirconiumX>It's a grey, miserable day, still raining
08:34<ZirconiumX>yet he's out to give ice creams
08:36<__ln__>you mean the day is sunshinely challenged
08:36<ZirconiumX>extremely sunshinely challenged
08:36<ZirconiumX>I bet he's got those rose tinted spectacles on
08:37<@Alberth>he's reharsing for tomorrow or monday :)
08:37<ZirconiumX>(idiom, he doesn't actually have rose tinted spectacles on)
08:39<ZirconiumX>meh
08:39<ZirconiumX>Xcode comes with gdb
08:39<ZirconiumX>which allows the program to run
08:39<ZirconiumX>but not to take input
08:39<ZirconiumX>so as soon as it prompts for input...
08:40<ZirconiumX>the debugger's useless
08:40<ZirconiumX>it's an anti-debugger
08:40<ZirconiumX>Argh!
08:41<ZirconiumX>Linker failure
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12:29<supermop>so just wrote my first email in german
12:30<__ln__>excellent
12:32<supermop>very
12:32<supermop>its also really stilted
12:32<supermop>but i havent written in german since 2003
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12:38<__ln__>http://narf-archive.com/pix/cdfd2153a2ddd0bc483350016f08b4e475157240.png (sfw)
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13:56<MNIM>so, it's now 1939 and Im already overloading parts of my double tracked network near my starting cities
13:56<MNIM>hmmmmmmh.
13:56<MNIM>and what's worse - absolutely no space for quad-track
13:58<@Terkhen>longer trains?
14:00<MNIM>all passenger trains are five long
14:00<MNIM>no space for longer stations either
14:00<MNIM>this is getting promising for when I reach 2000
14:02<@Terkhen>yes, passengers overflow networks quickly :P
14:02<MNIM>so it seems
14:02<@Terkhen>I have sometimes played with town growth disabled, so I can control passenger flow a bit better
14:02<@Terkhen>but that's "cheating" :P
14:03<MNIM>well, that's an option too, but then other cities won't develop naturally
14:04<MNIM>don't really care about cheating, since Im a sandbox player anyway
14:05<@Terkhen>another option is disabling "town build roads"; then towns have a small margin of growth and after that you can build roads for them
14:06<MNIM>yeah, Ive got that already
14:06<MNIM>http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/Screens/New%20Handwell%20Co.%2C%2018th%20Jul%201939.png
14:07<MNIM>that's what my main metro zone looks like right now
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14:08<MNIM>based around a big fjord, with giant 800 pax ferries moving around people to relieve the rail network a bit
14:08*Alberth likes the fake harbours
14:08<MNIM>marico newgrf
14:09<MNIM>you can only build 'em in scedit, and it's got some bugs with building 'em like more scenery stuff does, but it does look pretty neat indeed
14:09<MNIM>hmmmmh
14:10<MNIM>I should build more buses to transfer passengers between those cities too
14:10<@Terkhen>the docks looks nice indeed :)
14:10<@Terkhen>why only in SE?
14:12<MNIM>dunno, it's scenery like windmills, radio transmitters etc, so maybe they're inherently limited to scedit
14:12<MNIM>http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/Screens/New%20Handwell%20Co.%2C%2018th%20Jul%201939%231.png
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14:12<MNIM>a bit more rural scene.
14:12<MNIM>and if you may feel the urge to ask, yes, I am indeed dutch :P
14:14<MNIM>Not sure how good the load of a heavy train passing at 160kmh is for a sea dike, but oh well :P
14:15<@Terkhen>that's a strange limitation IMO; I'm able to build objects in normal games with othet objects NewGRFs
14:15<@Alberth>at least the sea level is not rising :p
14:15<@Terkhen>and that last link gives "file not found" to me
14:15<MNIM>0-o
14:15<MNIM>de hell
14:15<MNIM>it does for me too
14:16<MNIM>hmmmmh
14:16<MNIM>wait a second
14:17<MNIM>http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/Screens/Polders.png
14:17<MNIM>yeah, this works
14:17<MNIM>I think that was just an ascii code too much or something
14:18*Alberth can place marico objects in a game
14:19<MNIM>0-o
14:19<MNIM>huh.
14:19<MNIM>oh well
14:19<MNIM>then Ill have to blame it on my misuse of newgrfs
14:19*MNIM shrugs
14:19<MNIM>there are ways around it anyway
14:20<MNIM>since I frequently dive into the scedit to add rivers and make big landscape changes anyway
14:20<@Alberth>not really
14:20<@Terkhen>strange, I can't :P
14:20<@Terkhen>maybe we have an older version
14:20<@Alberth>that could be the case, I run (almost) trunk
14:21<MNIM>trunk, as in, latest standard nightlies?
14:21<@Terkhen>no, an older version of marico
14:22<MNIM>could be too
14:22<@Alberth>usually not, I build directly from the latest svn sources
14:22<MNIM>oh.
14:22<MNIM>yeah, that may be the case, too
14:22<@Alberth>Terkhen: also a possible explanation
14:22<MNIM>since mine is the lates stable .deb release if I'm not mistaken
14:23<@Terkhen>I downloaded the latest version of marico and I still can't build anything with 1.1.1
14:23<MNIM>1.1.1-RC1. to be precisew
14:23<MNIM>*precise
14:24<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/marico.grf
14:25<@Terkhen>heh, I can't even build anything on the SE :P
14:26*MNIM makes preemptive save
14:26<@Alberth>good, less distraction :p
14:27<MNIM>to whom, alberth?
14:27<MNIM>0-o
14:27<@Alberth>to Terkhen
14:27<MNIM>ah, lol
14:27<MNIM>well
14:27*Terkhen goes back to writing documentation :P
14:27<MNIM>to me ottd is a wayyyy to big distraction already anyway
14:27<@Terkhen>I should delete the binaries I have around too
14:28<MNIM>and my add does not exactly help :P
14:28<MNIM>hmmmh, odd, newgrf settings does not see the new file, even after rescanning
14:29<@Alberth>my file?
14:29<@Alberth>it hides older versions I think
14:29<MNIM>so it seems
14:29<@Terkhen>Alberth's file is identical to the one I had
14:29<MNIM>I renamed the new file to marico2.grf
14:30<MNIM>and now it automatically loads marico2.grf, even though I made no changes in newgrf settings
14:30<@Alberth>so I am up to date :)
14:30<MNIM>I take it ottd does not handle newgrfs by filename
14:31<@Terkhen>regarding savegames it uses the GRFID
14:31<MNIM>whelp, yeah
14:31<MNIM>now I can build in-game indeed
14:31<@Alberth>and md5 checksum
14:31<@Terkhen>strange :O
14:32<MNIM>don't think I see new features though, so it does not look like an incredibly big jump in versions
14:32<@Alberth>I don't know, I just pulled a random version for testing
14:32<MNIM>lol
14:32<@Terkhen>I don't remember any recent updates
14:32<@Alberth>(while hacking the newgrf object gui
14:33<MNIM>oh, hacky hacky!
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14:36<MNIM>heh
14:37<MNIM>you know your train is long when you need four locs to pull it
14:39<@Alberth>holland is not that big :)
14:40<MNIM>nope, but my mix of scandinavia - netherlands is
14:40<MNIM>1024^2
14:40<MNIM>also, most of our freight traffic on rails is actually international
14:40<@Alberth>oh, big. I always get lost with anything > 512*512 :)
14:40<MNIM>rotterdam - france and such
14:41<MNIM>I use flags for general areas
14:42<MNIM>also, I use space I don't use (yet) as practice space for junctions and stations
14:44<MNIM>hmmmmh
14:44<MNIM>how far are the people working on realistic breakdowns?
14:45<MNIM>it's really annoying that a train with four locs still completely breaks down as often as trains with only one
14:45<supermop>In locomotion it would have broken down four times as often
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14:48<MNIM>ouch
14:49<MNIM>well, if that four times as often meant that only one lock broke down with a horsepower+torque penalty, yes please
14:49<MNIM>but not a complete standstill!
14:50<MNIM>oh, no wonder their efficiency dropped
14:51<MNIM>I forgot some advanced settings >.
14:53<supermop>it was awful for trains of multiple units,
14:53<supermop>as you had to manually pick up a train to replace it when it was old,
14:53<supermop>and you had to stop the train to pick it up
14:54<supermop>but you coulding stop a running train if it (or any part of its consist) was broken down,
14:54<MNIM>ouch
14:54<MNIM>hmmmh
14:55<supermop>so if you let a train get to about 70-80% of its expected life by accident,
14:55<MNIM>I should stop ottd-ing now and make food
14:55<supermop>you would be stuck with it crawling around at about 5 mph forever
14:55<supermop>as each unit brokedown as soon as, or before the last was fixed
14:56<supermop>pretty much the only solution was to crash it RCT style
14:57<andythenorth>sounds like US railroading in the 70s
14:57<andythenorth>10 units on a train
14:57<andythenorth>only 2 are online :P
15:03<supermop>haha
15:06<andythenorth>NewBreakdowns :p
15:08<MNIM>is it working properly yet?
15:15<supermop>what are you working on these days Andy?
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15:18<andythenorth>FIRS
15:19<supermop>nice
15:29<@Alberth>playing a test-game, or painting snow pixels?
15:35<andythenorth>painting
15:36<supermop>neat
15:36<supermop>i'm not sure if I've really played at all in 2011 yet
15:39<supermop>been too frustrated with map generation
15:41<@Alberth>supermop: andy needs test players ;)
15:45<supermop>hmm
15:45<supermop>I could make another map by hand
15:46<supermop>any one have a suggestion for getting a steady shot for a ~90 minute continuous video take out of a train window
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15:46<supermop>?
15:47*MNIM burps
15:47<MNIM>oops
15:47<MNIM>my fault
15:47<MNIM>I was hungry
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15:48<andythenorth>supermop: http://www.amazon.com/SLIK-TRIPODS-MINI-Mini-Tripod/dp/B00006HOKV
15:48<andythenorth>approximately
15:48<andythenorth>you'd need a table seat
15:49<andythenorth>you'll likely get some vibration, but it's the best way
15:50<supermop>no tables on NJT
15:50<andythenorth>http://www.steadicam.com/handheldSteadicamJR.html
15:50<supermop>strictly packed in commuter seats
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15:51<supermop>bombardier bi-levels, old comets, or even older Budd EMUs
15:51<supermop>i can get a window sill though
15:51<supermop>haha
15:52<supermop>i think the steadycam would get me some wierd looks
15:53<supermop>ws thinking one of those squishy beanbag tripods could be good, as the sill is sloped, and it might dampen some vibration
16:12<supermop>maybe a lump of plasticine with a set screw in it
16:20<@planetmaker>wow... translators are also lazy, eh?
16:22<@Alberth>perhaps we should rename some random strings :p
16:22<@planetmaker>:-P
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16:25<Oliver_>What irc server is this?
16:26<@planetmaker>erm?
16:26<@Alberth>one of oftc,net
16:26<Oliver_>is in the webirc, couldnt se what irc server its on
16:27<@planetmaker>aye
16:27<@planetmaker>:-)
16:27<@Alberth>these things live in just one server?
16:28<Oliver_>Se if i add it to my mirc settings when i have time
16:28<Oliver_>miht be intresting channel to be in
16:28<@Terkhen>Oliver_: irc.oftc.net IIRC
16:29<Oliver_>Btw, for the osx version, do i need to download all music gfx and just add the folders to the gamefolder?
16:30<@planetmaker>the onlything strictly needed are the game graphics
16:30<@planetmaker>which go into ~/Documents/OpenTTD/data
16:30<@planetmaker>the rest then can be obtained via ingame content download
16:30<@planetmaker>including sound and music set(s)
16:30<Oliver_>cant open the game in osx it says it need graphic
16:31<@planetmaker>yes :-)
16:31<@planetmaker>[22:30] planetmaker the onlything strictly needed are the game graphics
16:31<@planetmaker>get them from http://www.openttd.org/download-opengfx
16:32<Ammler>maybe osx version should include opengfx in the bundle
16:33<@planetmaker>we first need a working CF for OSX again
16:34<Ammler>ah ok :-)
16:34<Ammler>did that not survive the migration?
16:34-!-Oliver_ [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
16:34<@planetmaker>nope :-(
16:35<Ammler>then you should again think about macports :-P
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16:38<@Alberth>good night
16:38<@planetmaker>g'night Alberth
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17:32<Rubidium>Ammler: no, it should have an installer
17:33<Rubidium>and first the CF needs to work properly again at all before I'm going to waste time on OSX; maybe by that time OSX works properly in Xen
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17:43<pikka>ew
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17:56<andythenorth>ew?
17:59<pikka>largely
17:59<pikka>seen any orudge this morning?
18:00<andythenorth>not so much no
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18:06<pikka>perhaps he is sleeping still
18:07<pikka>oh well, I'll wander
18:07*andythenorth will go to bed
18:07<andythenorth>good night
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18:20<@Terkhen>good night
18:27<Wolf01>'night all
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18:45<Lyzio>Evening folks
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---Logclosed Sun Jun 26 00:00:14 2011