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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-06-27

---Logopened Mon Jun 27 00:00:15 2011
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00:53<TruePika>Why is it that, when I copied my config file from Linux to Windows, that I get all sorts of NewGRF errors?
00:53<TruePika>They are caused by the difference between '/' and '\'
00:54<TruePika>If I change them to '\', no errors
00:54<TruePika>However, Windows accepts '/' in URIs
00:54<TruePika>OTTD seems not to like '/' in the Windows config...
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02:51<@Terkhen>good morning
02:57<@Terkhen>hi peter1138
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03:24<dihedral>does anybody know if there is a simple way to install imagemagick on a SLES server?
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03:40<@peter1138>apt-get install imagemagick ;D
03:42<dihedral>i wish :-P
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04:25<Eddi|zuHause>zypper in imagemagick?
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06:38<@peter1138>me o'clock!
06:39<Ammler>finally :-)
06:59<fjb>Not here.
07:00<Sacro>so warrrrm
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09:42<MNIM>is there a way to make vehicles available again after they've expired?
09:42<@Terkhen>enable "vehicles never expire" and write "resetengines" on the console
09:44<MNIM>yeah, I got the vehicles never expire option, but I activated it too late, not realizing that those things are save-specific
09:44<MNIM>oh jay, that did it
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09:49<MNIM>this probably helps with solving some of that congestion I had
09:50<MNIM>I split up a group of stopping trains which did a clockwise round line and gave the second half orders to go anti-clockwise
09:50<MNIM>now to do the same with the intercities
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10:21<MNIM>hmmmmh. would a DB270 lock be a viable replacement for a caledonian railway 439 pulling a five tile long train to transfer it onto longer trains at mining hub stations?
10:22<MNIM>while taking into account that they have to pull it over some slopes
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11:34<MNIM>anybody can remind me where 'trains can reverse at station is under?
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11:42<Vikthor>MNIM: I think difficulty settings
11:43<MNIM>well that would explain why I couldn't find it
11:44<Ammler>MNIM: rcon list_settings reverse
11:44<Ammler>or without rcon
11:44<Vikthor>yes, this setting is kind of tricky, it's heritage from original TTD
11:45<Ammler>or grep the cfg
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11:56<andythenorth>after we've added realistic prices, can we fix some more realism related things?
11:57<andythenorth>for example I've noticed that some trains are too short
11:57<andythenorth>e.g. an SD40-2 is only about 25px long in game
11:57<andythenorth>whereas wikipedia says it's "68 ft 10 in (20.98 m) over the coupler pulling faces"
11:57<andythenorth>so it's about 68 feet and 9 and 3/4 inches too short
11:58<+glx>realism in openttd
11:58<andythenorth>(depending on your screen size)
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12:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: have you used the more zoom levels yet? :p
12:06<andythenorth>then it no longer fits on my screen :(
12:06<andythenorth>my screen is unrealistic
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>hm... this 32bpp blender tutorial on the wiki totally does not work in blender 2.5
12:07<andythenorth>it appears to just be a 2D depiction of things
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>and aside of that, it seems to be written by somebody who has absolutely no clue
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>both "import Blender" and "from Blender import *"
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well, you don't pay real money for it either
12:08<andythenorth>my screen?
12:08<andythenorth>it certainly appeared to cost money
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>no, the SD40-2
12:08<andythenorth>maybe it's all just appearances
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>(whatever that is)
12:08<andythenorth>maybe the world is just illusion
12:09*andythenorth wants his money back
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>well, money is an illusion
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>someone just made it up
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>(typically that someone is called "central bank" or somesuch)
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12:31<MNIM>money is a representation of services and goods in an abstract form, qualified in numbers
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12:32<Eddi|zuHause>that's what they make you believe, but it is really not
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12:33<Eddi|zuHause>at least not since the 1950's, and certainly not since the 1990's
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12:43<MNIM>well, if you are referring to the use of 'imaginary' money at stock exchanges, it's far older than the 1950s
12:43<MNIM>in fact, Id refer you to the very first stock crash, which, naturally, happened in the netherlands
12:44<Eddi|zuHause>1950's is when the gold standard was given up
12:45<MNIM>well, that doesn't really count
12:45<MNIM>the only thing that changed was that money became independent of the value of something else
12:45<MNIM>and besides that, the gold standard isn't that old
12:46<MNIM>the 'standards' were all, at their time, the most valuable stuff available.
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>no, before the gold standard, money was worth the material value of the coin
12:46<MNIM>what was said value based on? hmmh?
12:47<MNIM>it's all recursive, that's the funny thing about money
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>the gold standard meant: i won't give you 1000 Mark worth of gold, but i will give you this paper that says you could get 1000 Mark worth of gold"
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12:47<+glx>it weights a lot less when you need 1000000 ;)
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12:50<MNIM>well, figure this: back during the tulip mania, when you wanted to buy a nice luxury home, you wouldn't give the seller a box full of gold coins, you'd give hima a tulip bulb
12:50<MNIM>during that time, anything that was worth a lot and was easy to carry was used as 'money'
12:51<MNIM>gold, spices, tulips, they've all been used as monetary means
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>yes. but nowadays it isn't.
12:51<MNIM>yet none of them actually are worth the value they represent
12:52<MNIM>not in most civil countries, yeah
12:53<andythenorth>don't mention that money is based on illusion
12:53<andythenorth>that makes the whole thing fall down :
12:53<andythenorth>then where would we be?
12:53<andythenorth>*not* in the shop buying stuff, that's for certain
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13:17<@peter1138>yay, tulipmania
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13:43<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22610 /trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: swedish - 4 changes by Zuu
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13:51<Dozzer>I installed GRF for tramways, but I can't build tramway
13:52<TWerkhoven>are there any trams available?
13:52<Dozzer>I think yes...
13:53<Dozzer>The scenario is in 2012
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13:53<Zuu>If you go to the NewGRF window (in your game, not the menu), do you have your tram NewGRF visible in the list?
13:53<Rubidium>you don't need a tramway newgrf to get trams, you need trams to get tramways
13:54<Dozzer>Yes, it's visible
13:54<Dozzer>With a green square in left of its name
13:54<Dozzer>I installed "Generic Tram Set"
13:54<Zuu>That's a tram set.
13:55<Zuu>If you click and hold your button on the button to build road (top of screen)
13:55<Zuu>Do you get a menu where you can select tram way?
13:56<Zuu>Then I'm out of ideas without having access to your (save-)game.
13:56<TWerkhoven>you know tram-construction is found under road-construction?
13:56<Rubidium>please upload the savegame; this guessing what's wrong game doesn't seem to be fruitful
13:57<Dozzer>Give me a site to upload
13:57<Dozzer><TWerkhoven> you know tram-construction is found under road-construction?
13:57<Dozzer>Look, I`m not so stupid
13:58<Dozzer>In my old games with temperate climate I constructed
13:58<Dozzer>But it's possible to be this because of toyland climate?
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>very likely
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>most sets do not offer vehicles for toyland
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14:21<Wolf01>bah... my provider is retarded
14:22<Wolf01>I asked if was possible to reduce the lag, they raised the speed, now I have more lag and less download speed (24kbps)
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15:08<MNIM>I got attacked by UFOs! D:
15:18<Dozzer>How can I build raw materials industries?
15:24<Hirundo>there's a setting for that
15:25<MNIM>Advanced settings --> economy --> industries --> manual primary industry...
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15:31*MNIM baps self
15:31<MNIM>do more research!
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15:32<MNIM>so I just upgraded half of my network to electric
15:33<MNIM>and then I realised there's really no loc that'll provide any advantage of my jesus-christ-knows-how-old 99kmh steam engines
15:33<MNIM>and it's already 1953!
15:33<MNIM>*advantage over my...
15:37<MNIM>I bought those SBB A3/5-s from 1900 and later, and yet there's still no really satisfactory euro e-loc
15:40<MNIM>The NS1000 comes close, but they're not really fast, neither cheaper than a steam loc (which is odd, considering e-locs need a lot less laborious manhours!
15:42<andythenorth>weather would be lame
15:42<andythenorth>but clouds...
15:43<MNIM>looks a bit out of place combined with the old-school graphics of the rest of the game, but yeah, random clouds would be neat
15:43<Dozzer>How can I remove a newGRF?
15:43<MNIM>also, those are huge mountains! is that a patch?
15:43<Dozzer>How can I remove a newGRF?
15:43<MNIM>during a game?
15:43<Dozzer>No exactly
15:43<MNIM>you can't, in newer versions of ottd
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15:43<Dozzer>During making a scenario
15:44<MNIM>there's no real difference between a scenario and a running game for ottd
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>scenario is the same as a game
15:44<MNIM>in fact, rename a .sav into .scn, put it in the correct folder and you are perfectly able to open it in scedit
15:45<MNIM>there is one way, but I am so not responsible for any bugs that might occur!
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15:46<MNIM>(adding/removing newgrfs in-game has been disabled in newer versions because it's prone to cause bugs, which are then blamed on the ottd devs, which is annoying for them to say the least)
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15:57<@Terkhen>Dozzer: see
15:57<@Terkhen>the last post includes links to a few examples of what might happen if you change NewGRFs anyways
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17:15<Dozzer>When I see the list of my trains
17:15<Dozzer>What are those symbols under train's number?
17:17<Twerkhoven[L]>wether or not ir makes a profit
17:19<Dozzer>I see a blue bar
17:19<Dozzer>And a yellow...ball
17:19<Dozzer>With a green "+"
17:19<Twerkhoven[L]>diagonal bar? you are using opengfx then right?
17:19<Twerkhoven[L]>diagonal blue bar == engine < 1year old
17:20<Twerkhoven[L]> <-- full explanation of that particular window
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17:35*andythenorth -> bed
17:35<andythenorth>good night
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18:01<@Terkhen>good night
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18:31<Dozzer>Why when I destroy something, it doesn't make green?
18:31<Dozzer>A square...
18:31<Dozzer>It remains brown
18:31<Twerkhoven[L]>how long did ya wait?
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>it's grass. needs time to grow
18:34<@Yexo>it'll only turn green when the game is unpaused
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18:39<Dozzer>The problem is
18:39<Dozzer>That it isn't in pause mode
18:40<Dozzer>And also, 3 years have passed
18:40<@Yexo>please create a savegame and upload it
18:42*MNIM groans
18:43<MNIM>perhaps I should not be trying to read info on newgrfs while Ive got a few beers headbutting my brain
18:46<@Yexo>try writing newgrfs when you had a beer too many :p
18:47<MNIM>well, it's not so much "too many" but "too fast"
18:47<MNIM>also, Im a lousy coder, with or without beers >.<
18:47<@Yexo>same effect :)
18:48<MNIM>well, that is, I have far too little patience and a too smal attention span to code anything from the ground up.
18:50<MNIM>Bah, you know somewhere where I can get a TTBRS that gives TTRS road surface graphics when used with TTRS?
18:50<MNIM>(or vice verca)
18:50<@Yexo>no idea if such a grf exists
18:51<MNIM>well, somebody said that there (probably) is, yet I can't find it
18:51<Twerkhoven[L]>tubular bridges?
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18:52<MNIM>nope, the whole total bridge replacement set
18:52<MNIM>like so
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19:07<MNIM>You know? the default ottd company HQ looks pretty tiny compared to other town buildings
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19:11<Eddi|zuHause>this took like 5 minutes of searching:
19:13<MNIM>I must have been using horrible search terms, apparently
19:13<MNIM>seriously, where did my google fu go?
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>well, i cheated, because i went through a couple of german posts :p
19:14<MNIM>well, I can read german
19:15<MNIM>speaking and writing... Not so much
19:15<MNIM>and yet I live, like, next door >.<
19:16<MNIM>is it just me, or has TTBR not developed much between 2008 and 20011? 0-o
19:16<Eddi|zuHause>not at all.
19:17<MNIM>sad. those bridges are pretty neat, they deserve more updates!
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>all _interesting_ updates for bridges need completely new infrastructure, like action1/2/3 support
19:18<MNIM> laymens terms? (sorry)
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>like the often requested "suspension bridges should span more tiles"
19:19<MNIM>hmmmh, read something about that too.
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>currently, the order of bridge tiles is fixed by the game
19:19<MNIM>sounds to me like that would need a big change in how (o)ttd handles bridges in general
19:19<MNIM>(...) indeed.
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>action1/2/3 would allow for switching graphics depending on variables (like length of/position in bridge)
19:20*MNIM notes to self: stop pressing enter before you finished your sentence
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19:21<MNIM>from what I understand right now, a bridge has five tiles, plus ramps
19:22<MNIM>five /unique/ tiles, I should say
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes, in a fixed order
19:23<MNIM>so you can make stuff like a tied bridge as they do in TTRS, yet you can't repeat that five tiles long arch
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>that's already quite an abuse of the system
19:24<MNIM>it's a hack, if I understand it correctly
19:24<MNIM>and it works solely because it allows no repeats
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19:27<MNIM>that TBRS + TTRS3 set you linked me to seems to be a hack as well
19:28<MNIM>the TTRS modern roads 'shopped on top of the bridges, sadly they still mismatch when used with the classic roads
19:28<MNIM>oh well, Ill admit it's less of a mismatch :P
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19:35*MNIM reads what the CHIPS abbreviation stands for
19:35<MNIM>...Yeah, jay, recursive abbreviations. probably a linux user :P
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19:43<MNIM>newstations looks kinda cool
19:44*MNIM puts that in the 'keepers list
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19:50<MNIM>got any idea what roadset that is?
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19:53<Eddi|zuHause>that's NARoads
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19:55<MNIM>something like railtypes should be done for roads too
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19:57<Mazur>dirtroads, gravel, brick, asphalt, you mean?
19:59<MNIM>something like that
19:59<Mazur>Damn, gotta go searching for that XP key again.
20:00<MNIM>so you can chose between 'em, instead of having them forced per timeline or town center vicinity
20:00<Mazur>I nver learn and write it somwhere accessible.
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20:02<MNIM>nobody ever learns. :P
20:02<MNIM>we just think we'd about know it by now
20:03<Mazur>Registry of my old PC, I think.
20:04<Mazur>I mean, it's in hte registry, no?
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>what's an XP key?
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20:04<Eddi|zuHause>ah, you mean the license code
20:04<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is stored in the registry somewhere
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21:24<lugo>www-client/chromium-13.0.782.32 merge time: 12 hours, 7 minutes and 57 seconds
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---Logclosed Tue Jun 28 00:00:33 2011