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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-06-28

---Logopened Tue Jun 28 00:00:33 2011
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03:05<@Terkhen>good morning
03:21<__ln__>good morning, sir
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04:00<Eddi|zuHause>MB: "Und warum sollst *du* mich diesbzgl "beschwatzen"? Kann Ingo nicht selber schreiben?" :p
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04:02<@planetmaker>moin
04:02<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: in reply to what?
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04:02<Eddi|zuHause>the railtypes thing ;)
04:03<@planetmaker>well, I left that to you on purpose :-P
04:03<@planetmaker>got a link? Or via e-mail?
04:03<Eddi|zuHause>PM
04:04<@planetmaker>well... should I write?
04:04<@planetmaker>I mean... after all the rail classification thing as we consider was in this form your idea...
04:07<Eddi|zuHause>i'll answer him, but first i have a dentist appointment... :(
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04:18<Eddi|zuHause>he also says there is already a CETS (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=47655)
04:18<Mazur>Nice!
04:19<Mazur>I had my system tuned to perfection, everything working....
04:19<Mazur>And they had to bloody go and change SYSV init scripts and something to do with sound, so the whole bloody mess fails at EVERY TURN again.
04:20<Mazur>Hand me a machine gun, someone.
04:20<@planetmaker>Well... maybe we should re-consider the name, though... not sure
04:20<@planetmaker>maybe TOC ;-)
04:21<@planetmaker>trains of central Europe ;-)
04:23<@peter1138>well it seems to be dead anyway
04:31<@planetmaker>yes... that's why I'd not be overly concerned to continue to use cets
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04:46<Mazur>Ah, there ismy sound.
04:47<Mazur>They muted it in an uprgade.
04:47<Mazur>SOmething like: "Oh, wanna use fedora 15? You know, then you will not want your sound anymore. No, we know better than you."
04:48<Mazur>"No, really. Turn it off!"
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04:48*Mazur tracks and tortures whoever had that bright idea.;
04:49<@peter1138>well, if you will use fedora...
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05:26<fjb_>Poor Eddi.
05:31<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: planetmaker, or maybe merge with that existing cets?
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05:43<@planetmaker>for certain definitions of 'merge'
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05:53<Mazur>peter1138, what's the best distro these days, then?
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06:09<@planetmaker>Ammler: the focus of that set is rather South-East Europe than central Europe ;-)
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06:39<Sacro>mroning peter1138
06:39<Sacro>oh damn it, missed by a minute
06:39<Sacro>or have I
06:39<@peter1138>awww
06:39<@peter1138>yeah :(
06:39<Sacro>/bin/sh: ntpdate: not found
06:39<Sacro>D:
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07:45<__LN__>GUESS WHAT DAY IT IS
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>PLANETMAKER: I GUESS THE MEANING OF "CENTER" VARIES ON YOUR OWN POSITION :P
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>DAMN, MY CAPS IS STUCK
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08:28<Ammler>well, then call your set DeutschelandeBähndle
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08:39<dihedral>"ich liebe deutscheland..."
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08:49<Vikthor>"Das alles ist Deutschland - das alles sind wir ..." :p
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09:51<H-land>I need some advice. I'm bored, and not quite sure what I want to do, but I think I want to play OpenTTD. I've got 1.1.0 downloaded on this machine, with trams and... well, that's the only NewGRF I'm using. What new NewGRFs should I try out?
09:54<H-land>Well. Guess this is the time of day when the channel is asleep, then.
09:56<lugo>H-land, av8, ukrs, egrvts, FIRS and FISH are a good start i think :)
09:56<H-land>Okay. I'll take a look at those.
09:56<MNIM>sorry, being lame
09:57<MNIM>and I agree with that. not sure about ukrs. Id sooner advise ttrs
09:57<lugo>respectivly replacing aircrafts, trains, buses/lorries, industries and ships
09:57<lugo>MNIM, ukrs is a train set
09:57<MNIM>oh, thought it was road set, not rail set
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10:31<@planetmaker>H-land: it strongly depends on what you like
10:31<@planetmaker>bug... lugo's advice is somewhat my own, too
10:31<@planetmaker>Additionally, if you want to start slowly, I rcommend to use the OpenGFX+ series
10:31<H-land>I'm trying out the FISH and FIRS right now.
10:31<@planetmaker>which enhances defaults without completely modifying everything
10:32<H-land>And the eGVRTS.
10:34<@planetmaker>all good choices. But you're missing a train set
10:34<@planetmaker>or you'll not enjoy FIRS
10:34<@planetmaker>Thus... possibly go for OpenGFX+ Trains additionally
10:35<@planetmaker>[15:54] H-land Well. Guess this is the time of day when the channel is asleep, then. <-- btw: 5 minutes response time is NOT long. It's not like people here constantly look at the channel only waiting for given the chance to answer a question ;-)
10:36<@planetmaker>though... European evening hourse are the most busy ones in this channel. And it's not yet evening ;-)
10:36<H-land>I'm just used to move chitchat and such in channels with over 50 people, I guess.
10:36<@planetmaker>most here are around 24/7
10:36<@planetmaker>but not physically
10:37<@planetmaker>they'll use a bouncer which gives them the history once they connect
10:37<@planetmaker>just as I do ;-)
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10:42<@Terkhen>for example, I have to go now but the bouncer will stay connected
10:42<@Terkhen>bbl
10:45<Chris_Booth>afternoon all
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11:27<MNIM>hmmmmh
11:27<MNIM>oopsie
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11:40<@Terkhen>hi
11:42<Chris_Booth>hi Terkhen
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11:55<H-land>http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1513855/openttd/Clipboard01.png Assuming I want this stub-end station to connect to a main line perpendicular to it... That is, any suggestions on what I should do with interchanges?
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11:57<Chris_Booth>H-land: remove the 2 way signals infornt of the platforms
11:58<Chris_Booth>and then build a nice Side line hub in front of it
11:58<Chris_Booth>the connect to a 4 lines ML
11:58<Chris_Booth>T junctions are easiest to build
11:59<Chris_Booth>maybe check wiki.openttd.org or wiki.openttdcoop.org for ideas
11:59<Chris_Booth>they both have noice building guides on them
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12:03<Eddi|zuHause>put path signals in front of the platforms
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>do not ever put path and block signals on the same junction
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>build a second X, that's a major bottleneck
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>or make the entry in-out-in-out
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>instead of in-in-out-out
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>(preferably both)
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13:07<alluke>what set are those waypoint from?
13:07<alluke>http://wiki.openttd.org/images/2/21/Checkpoints.png
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13:19<Eddi|zuHause>those are the default waypoints
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>or not?
13:21<@Yexo>perhaps opengfx vs original?
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13:23<Ammler>has ogfx it's own?
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13:33<Eddi|zuHause>if they didn't copy it from openttd.grf
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22611 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/basque.txt:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: basque - 10 changes by Thadah
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14:02<andythenorth>evening
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14:22<andythenorth>and all through the house
14:22<andythenorth>no-one was stirring, not even a mouse
14:22<andythenorth>quiet here
14:22-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
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14:23<andythenorth>hello Alberth
14:24<andythenorth>caused any arguments recently :P
14:24<andythenorth>:D
14:24<@Alberth>hello andy
14:24<andythenorth>hmm
14:24<andythenorth>foobar has suggested removals from advanced settings
14:24<andythenorth>let's see if he was right
14:26<andythenorth>broadly
14:26<andythenorth>he misses a few that should go
14:26<andythenorth>and cuts a few that should stay
14:27<@Alberth>it seems others have taken all the necessary steps :p
14:28<andythenorth>we should add a new advanced setting: show advanced settings
14:28<andythenorth>:P
14:29*andythenorth wonders how the .cfg works
14:29<andythenorth>presumably name value pairs
14:31<andythenorth>if it was "name value group" users could create their own advanced settings gui
14:31<andythenorth>thereby avoiding a holy war
14:32<andythenorth>or xml for the cfg
14:32<andythenorth>xml for cfg has been suggested before
14:32<andythenorth>it didn't seem to be a sick joe
14:32<andythenorth>joe? joke :P
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14:50<@Alberth>name value group?
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14:50<@Alberth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INI_file <-- a global description of the cfg format
14:51<@Alberth>as in, there is no single commonly agreed definition :)
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14:58<Ammler>andythenorth: then rather yaml
14:59*andythenorth googles yaml
15:00<Ammler>andythenorth: just follow the ini wiki alternatives
15:00<andythenorth>"omg, I can't believe it uses whitespace, this is freaking insane, how will that ever workup"
15:00<andythenorth>etc etc :P
15:01<Ammler>andythenorth: yeah, don't use google
15:01<Ammler>I guess, python does that too, doesn't it?
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and plenty of people complain about that :p
15:02<andythenorth>they're wrong :P
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>admittedly, it IS a hassle when your editor has certain tab/space rules that are not compliant with the suggested way
15:02<andythenorth>and they're probably not people you'd want to spend time with
15:03<Ammler>well, everything is better as xml
15:03<Ammler>e.g. json
15:03<andythenorth>I am no fan of xml
15:03<andythenorth>having written flash parsers for it, and written the xml for them
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>nobody is a fan of xml
15:03<andythenorth>I think it is suck
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>at least nobody who ever came in physical contact with it
15:04<andythenorth>basically for each item in openttd cfg, it would be desirable to specify:
15:04<andythenorth>value
15:04<andythenorth>location in advanced settings menu
15:04<andythenorth>(if any)
15:04<andythenorth>then we can provide a sane default set, and all the special case people can provide they're own (there will be few, but they will be very noisy)
15:04<andythenorth>they're / their
15:05<andythenorth>http://code.google.com/p/yaml-cpp/ ??
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>how do you intend to specify position (and especially order) in the advanced settings gui?
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15:06<Ammler>on the other side, it doesn't really matter, what format the settings file has
15:06<andythenorth>good point
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15:06<@Terkhen>while you are at it you could generalize the tree GUI code used by advanced settings :)
15:06*Rubidium wonders which user is the first to say that the window to configure the advanced settings window is too complex
15:06<Ammler>as you should make a gui for it too :-P
15:06<andythenorth>drag and drop :P
15:06<Rubidium>or specifically, that it lists way too many things
15:06<andythenorth>lets say it now
15:07<andythenorth>the window to configure the advanced settings window is too complex
15:08<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: the order is significant?
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: sometimes
15:09<andythenorth>probably
15:09<andythenorth>ach
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>unless you want to introduce dozens of subgroups
15:09<andythenorth>ok screw em
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>to keep logically similar settings together
15:09<@Alberth>Rubidium: isn't that the whole topic of the 'ottd getting too complex' thread?
15:09<andythenorth>make them edit the cfg file to change settings
15:09<andythenorth>lets just remove lots and see who complains
15:10<andythenorth>we could split test binaries with different ones removed :P
15:10<@Alberth>nah, use the IP address or the time of the day to decide :p
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if we wanted to go by the number of complaints, we would make build-while-paused a cheat and allow changing newgrfs
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>that's not a very good metric :p
15:12<Rubidium>Alberth: yes, that's why adding a window to configure that window isn't a solution at all
15:13<@Alberth>I must have skipped a few posts :p
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15:14<@Yexo>Alberth: that was never in a post, just here in the backlog
15:15<@Alberth>ok, thanks :)
15:16<andythenorth>Rubidium: why not a window to configure the configure window?
15:16<andythenorth>it makes total sense
15:16<andythenorth>completely logical
15:16<@Terkhen>why is that needed?
15:17<andythenorth>to reduce the complexity of the window that reduces the complexity of advanced settings :P
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>who wants to understand recursion must first understand recursion
15:17<@Terkhen>configuring the configure window would require checking all items
15:17<@Terkhen>then I'd ignore the configuring configure window option and just check all items once to enable/disable them
15:18<andythenorth>no no
15:19<andythenorth>it might be *really* important to you to be able to configure certain things
15:19<andythenorth>and if it isn't enabled, you'll be 100% certain that ottd will never succeed in capturing a large audience
15:19<andythenorth>especially among young people
15:19<andythenorth>besides, all modern games offer this feature
15:22*andythenorth beer
15:22<MNIM>WHERE!?
15:23<andythenorth>in my glass
15:24<MNIM>hmmmmh
15:25<MNIM>that's not right
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15:25<@Alberth>why not, he has given us breweries and and many other industries and vehicles
15:25<supermop>i want some recursive beer
15:27<@Alberth>to get infinitely drunk :p
15:28<MNIM>lol
15:28<MNIM>he made the ecs industries?
15:28<supermop>to get as drunk as I like to get drunk
15:28<MNIM>or firs?
15:29<@Alberth>firs, heqs, and fish
15:29<@Alberth>and I am sure I missed one or two :p
15:31<MNIM>lol
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16:14<Dozz>How to disable trains broking on the tracks?
16:15<@Yexo>set breakdowns to none in the difficulty window
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16:17<Dozz>thx
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16:42<Dozz>How can I replace vehicles with no more lifetime?
16:44<@Alberth>autoreplace
16:44<Dozz>They weren't replaced
16:44<Dozz>:|
16:45<@Alberth>you have to switch it on
16:45<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Autoreplace
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17:36<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i don't think MB is overly convinced...
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17:45<@Terkhen>good night
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