| --- | Log | opened Thu Jul 07 00:00:50 2011 |
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| 02:36 | <@Terkhen> | good morning |
| 02:36 | <Markk> | Goedemorgen. :) |
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| 03:25 | <dihedral> | good morning |
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| 07:15 | <andythenorth> | hola |
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| 07:23 | <Chris_Booth> | hola |
| 07:23 | <__ln__> | hola |
| 07:38 | <blup> | oi |
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| 08:27 | * | andythenorth ponders rivers |
| 08:27 | * | andythenorth got fed up with rivers previously |
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| 08:58 | <andythenorth> | my big towboat in FISH overlaps canal edges horribly :( |
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| 09:11 | <MNIM> | :/ |
| 09:12 | <MNIM> | andy: is that new content you're building? |
| 09:13 | <MNIM> | I have to wonder, though, why has nobody of making something like the log tugboat with barges instead of logs |
| 09:13 | <MNIM> | good to hear somebody is working on it though |
| 09:17 | <andythenorth> | MNIM: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/tugboat.png |
| 09:18 | <MNIM> | hmmmh, neat |
| 09:18 | <andythenorth> | refittable |
| 09:18 | <andythenorth> | 1-5 barges |
| 09:18 | <MNIM> | though I'd put the tugboat in the center of direction of travel |
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| 09:19 | <MNIM> | but that's just my ocdness on vehicles, I suppose. :P |
| 09:20 | <MNIM> | a vehicle is supposed to LOOK good otherwise it'll never drive/float/fly good. :) |
| 09:21 | <@Belugas> | hello |
| 09:21 | <MNIM> | 'elleu |
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| 10:16 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22639 /trunk/src/ (engine_type.h newgrf.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Feature: [NewGRF] Support for ship props 14/15 (ocean/canal speed fraction). |
| 10:16 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22638 /trunk/src/ (water_cmd.cpp water_map.h): -Fix: Keep the previous owner of the upper and lower lock parts if they are built on existing water. |
| 10:17 | <+michi_cc> | andythenorth: ^^ might be interesting for you |
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| 10:18 | <@peter1138> | what about river speed? :) |
| 10:19 | <MNIM> | do they already have something like roadtypes? |
| 10:19 | <MNIM> | it would be nice to have something like nutracks with speedlimits on roads |
| 10:20 | <+michi_cc> | Rivers and canals, at least what the NewGRF specs are concerned. |
| 10:20 | <+michi_cc> | s/and/are/ |
| 10:20 | <MNIM> | sandpath - 16kmh, cobblestones 50, concrete 80, asphalt 140 or something like that. |
| 10:21 | <dihedral> | and who defines that? |
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| 10:28 | <@planetmaker> | dihedral, the newgrf, like for railtypes |
| 10:29 | <@planetmaker> | but then... I know that cobblestone's limit is definitely significantly higher than 50km/h :-P |
| 10:29 | <dihedral> | yes, that would make sense :-) but you would want to define it for each vehicle |
| 10:29 | <dihedral> | rather than define it for each road type |
| 10:30 | <@planetmaker> | it would just work analoguously to railtypes: vehicles have already a road type (tram vs. road) |
| 10:31 | <@planetmaker> | no new concepts needed there at all |
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| 10:31 | <@planetmaker> | "just" fixing and defining all the loose ends on where roads interface with other stuff. |
| 10:31 | <@planetmaker> | Which are lots. |
| 10:31 | <@planetmaker> | even towns... which care not at all about rails |
| 10:32 | <@peter1138> | concrete 80km/h? |
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| 10:32 | <@planetmaker> | :-) I guess German highways are concrete... |
| 10:33 | <@peter1138> | hmm, how would you express "it's cheap but noisy" as a newgrf property? hehe |
| 10:35 | <@planetmaker> | well... it could have an effect on town growth if roads had a noise property |
| 10:35 | <@planetmaker> | or on LA rating |
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| 10:40 | <dihedral> | yay - noise limit :-P |
| 10:40 | <dihedral> | build this road type or an airport :-D |
| 10:40 | <dihedral> | haah |
| 10:41 | <dihedral> | and a small town starts off with bad roads? and the quality of the roads have an affect on the vehicles reliability? |
| 10:41 | <dihedral> | :-P |
| 10:42 | <dihedral> | and on the goods the vehicle transports |
| 10:42 | <dihedral> | and thus on the pay |
| 10:42 | <dihedral> | unless it transports milkshake |
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| 11:16 | <andythenorth> | michi_cc: :) @22639 |
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| 11:29 | <andythenorth> | michi_cc: is there any buy menu window feedback on canal / sea speed? |
| 11:29 | <andythenorth> | or I should just read the source? :P |
| 11:30 | <supermop> | sea speed? |
| 11:30 | <+michi_cc> | andythenorth: There isn't for now, but TTDP hasn't either. I did considered it, but displaying a different speed depending on whether the depot is on sea or canal might be too confusing. |
| 11:31 | <andythenorth> | I can add it manually, but it will be a bit odd |
| 11:31 | <andythenorth> | default will say "speed: 16mph" |
| 11:31 | <andythenorth> | then I'll add "canal speed: 14mph" |
| 11:33 | <supermop> | shouldn't small boats go faster on the smooth water of a canal than on a rough speed? |
| 11:33 | <supermop> | like an old-timey british canal boat |
| 11:33 | <andythenorth> | that will be my next question :P |
| 11:33 | <andythenorth> | which boats should go at what speeds where? |
| 11:33 | <+michi_cc> | supermop: Why do you think there are two props? :) |
| 11:33 | <supermop> | neat |
| 11:33 | <andythenorth> | but I have to go out now |
| 11:34 | <andythenorth> | bbl |
| 11:34 | <supermop> | rivers will be same as canal? |
| 11:35 | <+michi_cc> | Yeah, the NewGRF specs don't differentiate there. |
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| 11:41 | <supermop> | i assume asking for littoral speeds is too hard? |
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| 11:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | a "lit-toral" is a torus shaped bed? |
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| 11:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <planetmaker> but then... I know that cobblestone's limit is definitely significantly higher than 50km/h :-P <-- that heavily depends on the quality of the road :p |
| 11:53 | <+glx> | <Eddi|zuHause> a "lit-toral" is a torus shaped bed? <-- nice one :) |
| 11:56 | <andythenorth> | ok |
| 11:56 | <andythenorth> | so how should ship speeds vary? |
| 11:56 | <andythenorth> | FISH has three classes of boat |
| 11:56 | <andythenorth> | river boats |
| 11:56 | <andythenorth> | coastal vessels |
| 11:57 | <andythenorth> | and boats where it really doesn't matter |
| 11:57 | <andythenorth> | so are canals in game ship canals? or boat canals? |
| 11:57 | <andythenorth> | and is the sea deep, or shallow? |
| 11:59 | <@planetmaker> | I'd give the coastal vessels the same speed, but a higher speed for river vessels on rivers (if that's feasible) |
| 11:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'd make it like this: river ships: fast on rivers, very slow on ocean. ocean ships: fast on ocean, very slow on rivers. "in-between" ships: medium speed on either |
| 11:59 | <@planetmaker> | ^ |
| 11:59 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: that's about what I thought too |
| 11:59 | <andythenorth> | currently it will suck, because there are no rivers |
| 11:59 | <andythenorth> | but the plan is good |
| 11:59 | <@planetmaker> | there are canals |
| 11:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | on rivers it's like: the larger the boat gets, the slower it must be |
| 12:00 | <@planetmaker> | and they're treated like rivers wrt speed |
| 12:02 | <supermop> | littoral meaning area near coasts and estuaries |
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| 12:09 | <Chris_Booth> | andythenorth: the issue I see with slow / fast boats is the actual dock, since it can't be both in the sea and in a river one class of ship will have to be slow |
| 12:09 | <Chris_Booth> | or you will need to use 3 ship types |
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| 12:10 | <supermop> | it shouldnt be a problem, docks in rivers would serve river boats primarily, and large ships docking there could reasonable expect to be slowed |
| 12:10 | <supermop> | and vis-versa |
| 12:11 | <Chris_Booth> | but will these ships not hold up other ships? or will it be the case as it is at the moment and they can just drive over each other? |
| 12:11 | <Lapland> | I'm having trouble installing openttd on my ubuntu laptop. I thought I'd just figured everything out, but now when I try to run it it says that there aren't any valid language packs, even though there's a whole directory full of them in the same place the folder I downloaded put them. |
| 12:11 | <Eddi|zuHause> | all ships should be slow while approaching a dock |
| 12:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Lapland: you mixed language packs from differrent game versions, this is not possible |
| 12:13 | <supermop> | and yes, currently there seems to be no way preventing ships driving over each other. as long as stations can only have one dock |
| 12:13 | <Lapland> | All right, then. I'll see what I can do about that... |
| 12:13 | <supermop> | it would even be desirable to keep it that way |
| 12:18 | <Lapland> | Eddi|zuHause: I tried clearing and refilling the language files; it didn't help. |
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| 12:20 | <@Terkhen> | why did you change the languages at all? the ones included with the version you downloaded are the ones you want |
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| 12:20 | <Lapland> | I just feel like I'm making a huge mess, now- and I /didn't/. |
| 12:20 | <@Terkhen> | where did you download openttd? |
| 12:21 | <Lapland> | Um... I guess it was a nightly binary. Maybe I'm forgetting to compile or some such. |
| 12:21 | <@Terkhen> | nightlies should have everything you need |
| 12:22 | <@Terkhen> | no clue then, for me it's just untar -> run :) |
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| 12:27 | <Ammler> | Lapland: unpack the download in fresh location, do not overwrite existing install |
| 12:38 | <Lapland> | Now I just need to figure out how to uninstall things... |
| 12:42 | <Ammler> | delete the pack, done |
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| 12:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "Holland builds most expensive section of highway in the world" |
| 12:47 | <Lapland> | Article link? |
| 12:48 | <Lapland> | I want to know how many kilometers they're putting on pontoons until they finish building windmills to pump out all the water. |
| 12:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,772748,00.html <-- but it's in german |
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| 13:25 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 13:32 | <andythenorth> | if I draw sandy shores for rivers, will the sky fall in? |
| 13:32 | <andythenorth> | I think they look better |
| 13:32 | <andythenorth> | if someone hates it, flood fill them to muddy green :P |
| 13:35 | <supermop> | sounds good |
| 13:36 | <supermop> | so long as all sea shores have sand, rivers might as well be sandy/muddy/gravelly |
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| 13:40 | <Ammler> | no grassy shores are indeed nicer |
| 13:42 | <andythenorth> | Ammler: is that a yes or a no to sand? |
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| 13:43 | <Ammler> | more yes |
| 13:43 | <Ammler> | sand is better as gras |
| 13:44 | <Ammler> | sand is not best :-) |
| 13:44 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: are you aware of smoke clipping problems with a dairy? |
| 13:44 | <Ammler> | andythenorth: but I wont see you rivers anyway |
| 13:44 | <Ammler> | or will you make a ogfx version too? |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: translators * r22640 /trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 changes by Tucalipe |
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| 13:50 | <@Alberth> | andy got washed away by the river while placing sand :) |
| 13:54 | <Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause: as if that stretch of highway ever gets finished ;) |
| 13:55 | * | andythenorth will probably lose connectivity in a minute |
| 13:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: call it the "Duke Nukem Highway" :p |
| 13:55 | <Rubidium> | yeah, when it gets built it'll be terrible |
| 13:55 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: the smoke clipping is a limitation of ottd |
| 13:56 | <andythenorth> | the only fix is to move the chimney |
| 13:56 | <andythenorth> | it glitches on a few industries |
| 13:56 | <andythenorth> | it's annoying :) |
| 13:56 | <@Alberth> | so you are aware of it, and it is not your fault :) ok |
| 13:56 | <andythenorth> | I don't fancy moving the graphics around to fix it :| |
| 13:57 | <andythenorth> | I could probably cheat by putting the smoke on another tile, and shifting the z a lot |
| 13:57 | <andythenorth> | instead of shifting x and y of the smoke over the chimney tile |
| 13:57 | <@Alberth> | nah, that just hides the problem |
| 13:57 | <andythenorth> | I suppose I could add it to the other 80 FIRS tickets :P |
| 13:58 | <Lapland> | Nuke Nukem? Or Episode 3 Memorial Highway? |
| 13:58 | <@Alberth> | better add it to the few 1000 openttd bugs :) |
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| 13:58 | <andythenorth> | Ammler: I won't do opengfx rivers |
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| 14:00 | <Ammler> | then I should not care :-) |
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| 14:52 | * | andythenorth commits crime of 'failing to make a decision' |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | muddy green shores might look best for rivers |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | I continued with sandy, but when more angles have it, it gets a bit....sandy |
| 14:52 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 14:53 | <Lapland> | Which could be okay for deserts, but... |
| 14:53 | <andythenorth> | any -1 for dark green mud? |
| 14:57 | <Lapland> | Great, I think I broke Ubuntu by uninstalling OpenTTD the wrong way. |
| 14:59 | <supermop> | greay rocks? |
| 14:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Lapland: for how many days have you been using linux? |
| 14:59 | <Lapland> | Isn't that what canals are already? |
| 15:00 | <Lapland> | Eddi|zuHause: Several days, but I've mostly been doing things that aren't too complicated. |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | using grey will leave minimum variation from canals |
| 15:01 | <supermop> | more bumpy grey rocks? |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | don't think it will work |
| 15:01 | <supermop> | switch to rusty sheet-pile for canals? |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | might have found a better route |
| 15:01 | <supermop> | brown mud? |
| 15:01 | <andythenorth> | sometimes forgetting reality helps |
| 15:02 | <andythenorth> | imaging it's an early 90s pixel art game is helpful :P |
| 15:02 | <supermop> | how do the ogfx waves work? |
| 15:02 | * | andythenorth -> to the pixels |
| 15:02 | <@planetmaker> | supermop: palette animation |
| 15:04 | <opa> | newest technology :P |
| 15:05 | <@Alberth> | opa: unheard of at current colour depths ;) |
| 15:06 | * | Alberth waves hi to planetmaker |
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| 15:13 | * | planetmaker waves also 'hi' @ Alberth :-) |
| 15:14 | * | andythenorth prefers this version http://tt-foundry.com/misc/better_shores_xy.png |
| 15:15 | <andythenorth> | not sandy, not rocky, not muddy |
| 15:15 | <andythenorth> | just ...shores |
| 15:15 | <andythenorth> | river banks aren't something that should be noticed |
| 15:16 | * | andythenorth will finish those |
| 15:17 | <@Alberth> | it takes a bit getting used to, but grassy would be logical given all the other green tiles |
| 15:17 | <@Alberth> | s/would be/is/ |
| 15:17 | <andythenorth> | there isn't enough pixel space to draw details well |
| 15:18 | <andythenorth> | just a couple of pixels to do a blend between terrain and water |
| 15:18 | <andythenorth> | :) |
| 15:18 | <@Alberth> | that makes sense |
| 15:18 | <supermop> | looks better than default already andy |
| 15:18 | <supermop> | i think it is a logical way to show it |
| 15:19 | * | andythenorth hopes it works with other terrains |
| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | it's basically same as FIRS clay pit |
| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | turns out I solved this once already :P |
| 15:26 | <supermop> | maybe i should model some 32bpp sprites |
| 15:26 | <Lapland> | Whenever you realize that you've solved a problem before in a case like this, you're always thrilled, because you're problem's not a problem any more- but then you have to hate yourself, too, for not thinking of it sooner |
| 15:26 | <supermop> | i have a desire to draw some murdered out trucks |
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| 15:32 | <Chris_Booth> | hello |
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| 16:01 | <+michi_cc> | andythenorth: Now that is a nice shore :) |
| 16:02 | <andythenorth> | I think it's better :) |
| 16:04 | <maglev> | so what 32bpp sprites do you guys suggest? |
| 16:05 | <supermop> | some murdered out trucks that i havent yet drawn |
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| 16:26 | <andythenorth> | there seem to be numerous river sprites in this sprite sheet that aren't used |
| 16:27 | <andythenorth> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/water-features/repository/entry/sprites/graphics/rivers/temperate.png |
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| 16:32 | <Rubidium> | I guess the associated nfo might be more interesting; seems like some are for level 0 or something like that |
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| 16:34 | <Rubidium> | oh, it's just one blob of sprites ?!? |
| 16:36 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: frosch * r22641 /trunk/src/table/engines.h: -Fix (r22639): Warning about uninitialised fields. |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | Rubidium: yeah, I'm guessing it's sourced from a decompiled grf |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | I have split it into climates to be a bit more sane |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | there are a lot of sprites that seem to be duplicate |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | some are for river + coasts, but not all |
| 16:38 | <Rubidium> | the duplication seems to be only really useful for the last 4 sprites (sloped ones) |
| 16:38 | <andythenorth> | yup |
| 16:39 | <andythenorth> | I couldn't find any spec on what's actually required for rivers |
| 16:39 | <Rubidium> | neither can I |
| 16:39 | <andythenorth> | what fun :) |
| 16:40 | <Rubidium> | besides what openttd's code says |
| 16:40 | <andythenorth> | there's always that :) |
| 16:40 | <andythenorth> | is it canonical? :P |
| 16:41 | <Rubidium> | anyhow, offsets (per slope) are flat: 0, se: 12, ne: 24, sw: 36, nw: 48 |
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| 16:41 | <frosch123> | there are 12 per slope |
| 16:41 | <frosch123> | 4 borders |
| 16:41 | <Rubidium> | and I reckon the sprites *after* the first 12 are just to make it look nice on all the other slopes you can build rivers on |
| 16:41 | <frosch123> | 4 inner corners, 4 outer corners |
| 16:45 | <Rubidium> | andythenorth: http://rbijker.net/openttd/screenshot.png http://rbijker.net/openttd/allslopes.scn |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | ok cool |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | my test scenario misses some cases |
| 16:45 | <andythenorth> | thanks |
| 16:53 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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| 16:54 | <@Terkhen> | good night |
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| 17:52 | <CIA-2> | OpenTTD: frosch * r22642 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Change: Disable the 'set parameters' button in the NewGRF GUI, if the GRF specifies to have no parameters and one would not be able to set any parameters anyway. |
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| 21:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that was weird... |
| 21:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | connection disappeared without any apparent reason |
| 21:35 | <supermop> | ierd |
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| 22:03 | <supermop> | not sure what, if anything, i should draw for ottd |
| 22:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i could give you a list of engines ;) |
| 22:39 | <supermop> | never drawn a vehicle thusfar |
| 22:40 | <supermop> | i have some rhino models of buildings/stations/bridges, and then pixel art of sheds, but i am having trouble motivating myself to work on either |
| 22:41 | <supermop> | i need to recruit a coder |
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| --- | Log | closed Fri Jul 08 00:00:52 2011 |
