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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-07-08

---Logopened Fri Jul 08 00:00:52 2011
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02:57<dihedral>mornings :-)
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04:18<@Terkhen>good morning
04:41<@peter1138>so, last shuttle launch today, maybe
04:42<@planetmaker>yeah :-(
04:42*Alberth forgot to book a shuttle flight :(
04:43<@planetmaker> <-- book there
04:43<@planetmaker>next flight somewhen 2012
04:43<@planetmaker>and actually... equipment of my working group is booked in there :-P
04:43<@planetmaker>they don't dare to launch humans yet, though :-(
04:44*Alberth was expecting a website of the commercial space flights :)
04:45<@planetmaker> <-- "cheap" flight opportunities also there
04:45<@planetmaker>Alberth: it is
04:46<@Alberth>yeah, that one :)
04:46<@planetmaker>also the first one ;-) - though indeed I don't find a booking option
04:47<@Alberth>no worries, you're not rich enough yet
04:47<@planetmaker>yeah :-(
04:48<@planetmaker>I guess one has to own Amazon in order to apply... :S
04:48<@planetmaker>(blue origin is owned by its founder)
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07:40<__ln__>they're on their way to the shuttle
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09:26<@Belugas>missed the bus, this morning.
09:26<@Belugas>damned bus
09:30<@Alberth>bus was too early?
09:31<@Belugas>naaa... the man was too slow
09:31<@Belugas>like... it's summer, i don't have to rush kid to school, i was reading a book while walking to to bus stup etc etc
09:32<@Belugas>and it's soooo good to be outside ;)
09:34<@Alberth>so you wanted to enjoy outside a little longer, sounds like a good reason :)
09:47<@Belugas>not willingly, yes :)
09:47<@Belugas>subconscience slowed my walk, I guess
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10:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22643 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Disallow building NewObjects on water tiles owned by another company.
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11:27<MNIM>hmmmh. has anybody ever thought of orbital transports for ttd?
11:27<Zuu>I'm sure someone has though about it.
11:28<MNIM>bah. stuck at T-31 seconds
11:28<MNIM>running again
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11:56<MNIM>lol, forum sigs
11:57<MNIM>Worst Behaved IRC Member of 2008! - Wahoo!
11:57<MNIM>Worst Behaved IRC Member of 2009! - Yay!
11:57<MNIM>Worst Behaved IRC Member of 2010! - Even though i'm not even there anymore. How bad can I be?
11:57<MNIM>guess he'll lose his title this year. >:P
11:58<supermop>was fun to watch
11:59<MNIM>what was?
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12:06<supermop>shuttle rolling over
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12:36<Eddi|zuHause>wait... shuttles play dead?
12:37<Chris_Booth>they do if they are american
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>well, russian shuttles never made it off the ground ;)
12:42<MNIM>actually, they did, but not with human passengers :P
12:45<supermop>lets have an ESA shuttle
12:46<MNIM>mweh. I doubt any shuttle system similar to the exisiting american/russian will still have the same problems.
12:46<MNIM>IE risky and expensive
12:49<supermop>but there is certainly going to be a capacity gap until there is a replacement
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12:56<MNIM>ask the russians to whip something up with the energia
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12:57<MNIM>knowing the russians, they'll build the rocket faster than it took the apollo 13 to get back home
12:57<__ln__>i guess it'll be chinese shuttles next
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>the americans had a lot of time to find a replacement system, they didn't use it properly
12:57<supermop>no, we had lots of time, but little money
12:58<supermop>because NASA isnt as glamorous to congress as it used to be
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: that is a symptom, not the cause
12:58<__ln__>fortunately the money was well spent in iraq and afghanistan
12:58<supermop>plus 8 years of a government that starved Nasa of funding due to its stance on climate change
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12:58<supermop>we could have paid for both
12:59<supermop>we just had a government that didn't want to
12:59<andythenorth>space is silly
13:00<__ln__>how does the US intend to get the starfleet headquarters into San Francisco with that attitude
13:01<supermop>i assume that in 400 years governments might be very different
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>just compare it with the governments 400 years ago :p
13:03<supermop>anyway the hole goerge bush fort of mars is indeed silly
13:04<supermop>but there is plenty of serious work to be done in orbit and with satelites
13:04<supermop>plus NASA can, and should do serious work regarding climate and geology
13:04<supermop>and not be collared due to politics
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>nah, it'll all get "outsourced" to india and china
13:05<supermop>we thats fine too
13:05<andythenorth>US military space programme spending is believed to far exceed NASA's, so it's ok, the US still spend on space ;)
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13:05*andythenorth will now do other stuff
13:05<supermop>exactly andy:
13:06<Eddi|zuHause>meanwhile the europeans get settled in their starting places in french guyana and kasachstan
13:06<supermop>we need more academic research money
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13:10<@Belugas># we need love and peace!
13:12<andythenorth>we need the US to not default on debt
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>"Wollt ihr das TOTALE WELTRAUMPROGRAMM?"
13:12<andythenorth>or perhaps we don't care
13:12<andythenorth>perhaps a US default might be good for us
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>it probably would be
13:12<andythenorth>if the world economy collapses - lots more time for ottd
13:12<andythenorth>I could finish these stupid river banks
13:12<andythenorth>whilst stockpiling tins of beans
13:12<andythenorth>and gungs
13:12<andythenorth>guns /s
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>there's currently a race who can delay their default further, the EU or the USA
13:13<supermop>well, that is unlikely, as we can just massively devalue our currency if it comes to that
13:13<supermop>but there is a big fear in the US of what is essentially short term debt
13:13<MNIM>Bah. Why do people develop a patch, a feature or a grf and then not show in a screenshot what it looks like?
13:14<MNIM>it's like building a fucking car, hiding under a sheet and then trying to get customers to sign the purchase papers before they have ever seen the thing!
13:14<supermop>but we can actually handle greater debt in the short term fairly well (even though it is unpopular with populist pseudo libertarian groups)
13:14<MNIM>*hiding it under...
13:14<supermop>what our problem is is long term debt
13:14<@Alberth>not all patches can be usefully screenshotted
13:14<andythenorth>MNIM: tell them in the thread no?
13:14<supermop>on the scale of the next 50-70 years
13:15<supermop>whith rising healthcare costs et cetera
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: no, what your problem is is that the likes of china don't want to buy any more of your debts
13:16<supermop>they like to buy it so long as we dont let our currency devalue, and they dont have to let theirs appreciate
13:16<MNIM>don't have a forum account
13:17<supermop>what we need is to ensure strong regrowth in the short to medium term, so that we can pay for the huge wall of cost that is coming in a few decades
13:17<@Belugas>yup, forums accounts are hard to get :)
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: that is exactly the point, the USA has constantly been devaluating their currency over the last 10 years
13:18<supermop>which is actually good for us
13:18*Belugas wonders: what would it be like for a country to bankrupt?
13:18<supermop>bad for china
13:18<andythenorth>MNIM: bah. Why do people complain about forum threads lacking stuff, but then not register an account ;)
13:18<andythenorth>:D :P etc
13:19<supermop>but china has problems of its own to worry about, as its middle class grows, they will need greater purchasing power
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: that has happened plenty of times over the past centuries
13:19<supermop>which will hurt their manufacturing capacity
13:19<supermop>so it will be hard to balance
13:19<MNIM>andy: because I haven't seen anything worth making a forum account yet
13:19<MNIM>anyway, dinnertime
13:19<supermop>but has already happened for better or worse in europe and the us
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>Belugas: and there's still a chance we might see that happening with greece in the near future
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>or spain, or portugal, or ireland
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>and if it's going really bad, even italy
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13:21<supermop>ireland and portugal seem to coping better than greece
13:21<supermop>but italy is a big problem
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>i know there's lots of players in that game, but it might lead to a common european economical government
13:23<supermop>or it might break up the euro
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>that is not a contradiction
13:24<supermop>germany would be better out without a few Greece's on the periphery
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>on the contrary
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>germany is the greatest benefactor from having the likes of spain and greece in the euro
13:25<supermop>the problem would be keeping the peripheral emerging european economies viable markets for central 'strong' europe to export to
13:25<supermop>the euro helps that greatly by inflating those countries purchasing power
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's kinda funny, the euro was the invention of the WWII victorial powers (france, britain, USA) to keep a unified germany at bay, but in effect, it has made germany stronger ;)
13:27<supermop>Eddi, what would you think of a more federalized european goverment/economy?
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean by "federalized"
13:27<@Belugas>but it's a bit of an irony, though... a country goes bankupt, but unlike a real company, it does not cease to exist. It will face hard time, granted, but will go on
13:27<supermop>it has had the effect of making war between two european powers untenable, so thats good
13:28<supermop>most bankrupt companies carry on
13:28<supermop>they have to go through tough processes, but emerge in one form or another
13:29<supermop>i guess by federalized, i mean more centralized organization of the economy
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>i think you mix up the meaning of "federalized" there
13:29<supermop>one 'economy' for the core of the euro, instead of several closely bound 'economies'
13:30<supermop>not one state though,
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>"federalized" means "separately, but working together"
13:32<supermop>i would say that the current european powers are not even at a federal level yet,
13:32<andythenorth>1/16 of rivers are drawn :) :| :(
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13:42<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: no, and it's a very difficult way to get there. somebody will always think they're screwed over if they have to give away sovereign powers
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>there's always a chance the euro-sceptics rise in power in some country, like denmark, or czechia
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13:50<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: there is probably never going to be a system similar to the american structure. the existance of nations in europe will always get in the way of that
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13:59<Eddi|zuHause>that is a great description of the 2ccSet: "Considering we already have a quite long depot list, a few additional [...] shouldn't make much difference."
14:00*Terkhen will end up making a patch to get only the metro trains
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't it have parameters for that yet?
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>i thought that kind of parameter was discussed quite a while ago
14:01<@Terkhen>I have been waiting for those parameters for months :P
14:02<@Terkhen>it was discussed but, to my knowledge, never implemented
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>i guess it comes down to a "just do it" situation
14:06<andythenorth>it's an easy parameter :P
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14:13<supermop>has Dj been coding lately?
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14:28<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
14:28<supermop>i was asked if some of my sheds could be used by nutracks, but as far as i know it hasn't happened
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>"Der cottbusser Postkutscher putzt seinen cottbusser Postkutschkasten"
14:30<supermop>wait what is being cleaned here?
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>google insists that it should be written with one s...
14:32<supermop>google translate doesnt translate cottbusser
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>very unlikely
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>Cottbus is a city
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>so a cottbus(s)er is someone from Cottbus
14:33<supermop>so this is a carriage for this city
14:33<supermop>and it cleans something?
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>no, the driver cleans it
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, it's actually a tongue twister
14:36<supermop>ahh ok
14:37<supermop>i need a new german dictionary
14:37<supermop>also i need to get lunch
14:37<supermop>back later
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>german dictionaries tend to be difficult to read if you have no clue how to concatenate words ;)
14:38<__ln__>but the U-bahn station is actually Kottbusser Tor, funny
14:38<supermop>i used to be pretty efficient with one
14:38<supermop>when i was studying german
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: who ever said people from berlin know how to spell? :p
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14:40<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the city's real name in lower sorbian is actually Chóśebuz
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15:04<Eddi|zuHause>"Wer anderen eine Grube gräbt, der hat ein Grubengrabgerät"
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>"Wer anderen eine Bratwurst brät, der hat ein Bratwurstbratgerät"
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>"Wer gegen ein Minimum an Aluminium immun ist, besitzt Aluminiumminimumimmunität"
15:07<MNIM>Ouch, eddi, that hurts my brain trying to translate it
15:07<@planetmaker>:-D Nice word
15:07<@planetmaker>good evening
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: what's difficult in translation there? just replace -ät with -y
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>unless you're american, then you also have to remove one i from Aluminium
15:10<MNIM>Well, Im neither
15:10<MNIM>I live, like next door.
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure you're closer to andythenorth than to me ;)
15:11*__ln__ muß wahrscheinlich morgen deutsch in der real life sprechen
15:11<MNIM>but I think the main issue is that a hugely long word like that triggers some kind of latent disleksion or something ;)
15:11<andythenorth>stupid rivers
15:11<MNIM>also, there's at least a whole atlantic ocean between me and andy if I have to believe his hostmask
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: well, in that particular case, it's kinda meant to do that :p
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15:12*MNIM whacks eddi on the head
15:12<fjb>__ln__: Your German is quite good.
15:13<andythenorth>there are two types of terrain in arctic and tropic
15:13<andythenorth>so I have only done 1/24 of the stupid rivers
15:13*andythenorth should whine less and draw more
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you included toyland in that? :p
15:14<andythenorth>kind of have to
15:15<MNIM>well, toyland could be skipped, since it isn't /meant/ to look realistic
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: what do you mean? a traceroute from here to andythenorth goes Leipzig->Frankfurt->London->Manchester
15:15<andythenorth>oh god
15:15<andythenorth>they know where I am :P
15:15<andythenorth>not hugely accurately
15:15<MNIM>eh, he shows to me as having a cable virgin, and being in internic commercial.
15:16<MNIM>which is america
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: they're not allowed to have a "virgin cable" in britain?
15:16<@planetmaker>you err
15:16<@planetmaker>virgin is in many places
15:16<__ln__>fjb: danke, obwohl schreibe ich besser als ich spreche.
15:17<andythenorth>the ones with coloured dots and such are...not done :P
15:17<fjb>__ln__: Then you should speak more. ;-)
15:17<MNIM>well, as far as I know virgin is American, and besides that, Internic Commercial as country code means america
15:17<@planetmaker>sweet, andythenorth :-)
15:17<andythenorth>I haven't done any corner pieces. would anyone notice?
15:17<MNIM>so unless he's being proxy'd
15:17<andythenorth>they're as-decoded-from-the-grf
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: that reminds me of when SmatZ called and my mother answered the phone, afterwards my mother said SmatZ spoke good german, while SmatZ said he spoke bad german :p
15:18<andythenorth>it's pretty easy to see where I am
15:19<MNIM>well, as long as they don't speak it as bad as I do, no disasters are bound to happen.
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>that was on the way to r20k
15:19<andythenorth>virgin even give away the switch number I think
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i'm sure there are pretty detailed geoip-databases out there
15:19<MNIM>I can read, and to an extent, understand, but speaking is beyond my capabilities
15:19<@planetmaker>MNIM: choose one:
15:20<MNIM>wait, that's all the same country?
15:20<andythenorth>whichever geo IP suggests manchester is a bit off
15:20<MNIM>ehh, I mean, company?
15:20<andythenorth>'adult friend finder' ads manage to locate me pretty accurately :P
15:20<@planetmaker>and... virgin is a UK-based holding ;-)
15:20<andythenorth>aztw is a big clue for those in the know
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15:21<fjb>r30k is far too far away...
15:21<andythenorth>someone answer my question about river corners?
15:21<@Alberth>not until they try to make a 2 tile wide stupid river :)
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: but we missed r22222
15:22<MNIM>saw it. looks nice, I just hope you;ll be doing better rapids as other river .grf-s out there
15:22<@planetmaker>andythenorth: anyone - maybe. someone: sure
15:22<fjb>Oh... :-(
15:23<andythenorth>ok so I leave all the tiny corner pieces until someone complains
15:23<andythenorth>there are a boring amount of them
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: interestingly, those ads randomly show me any minor city in a ~30km radius, but not the major city ;)
15:24<andythenorth>most of you have no idea what corner pieces I refer to :P
15:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: maybe they're gaming you to think they're more specific
15:24<@Alberth>andythenorth: and you need some work for the next version :p
15:25<andythenorth>Alberth: ?
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>none of them managed to pick the right village, though ;)
15:25<@Alberth>andythenorth: removal of the corner pieces :)
15:25<andythenorth>they're being removed?
15:25*andythenorth is confused somewhat
15:25<andythenorth>maybe I should have a beer
15:26<MNIM>coding always gets better with beer, right
15:27<+glx>or not
15:27<MNIM>What the fuck.
15:27<MNIM>apparently crashes my mozilla
15:29<MNIM>that's the third time!
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15:33<MNIM>Oh lol. at least they got the country right this time
15:33<andythenorth>chris sawyer would have probably got online via aztw
15:33<MNIM>still some 300kms off, but oh well. :P
15:48<@planetmaker>@base 16 10 37
15:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 55
15:48<@planetmaker>@base 10 16 37
15:48<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 25
15:48<@planetmaker>what is callback 25 for industries?
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15:50<Eddi|zuHause>Animation control (1B/25/140/152/159)
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15:51<@planetmaker>ah, thanks
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>but after reading the wiki entry, i am totally confused about what it actually does :p
15:53<@planetmaker>returns an animation frame explicitly or a pseudo-frame which means next or stop
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16:22<Eddi|zuHause>AH! he's a ghost!
16:26<andythenorth>stupid connection
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>better than Moffat's version of "Ghosting" in the 51st century ;)
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16:54<@Terkhen>good night
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16:55<@planetmaker>good night Terkhen and all others as well
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20:00<Hellaciouss>sorry for this newb question but, how do I get sawmills/factories/etc to actually produce goods? For the saw mill I have a depo next to it and dropping off wood but it won't produce anything with the wood
20:02<Zuu>Hellaciouss: Do you look in the industry window or the station window?
20:02<Zuu>Also, you don't drop off wood in a depot, but at a station.
20:03<Hellaciouss>loading bay isn't the same?
20:03<Zuu>a loading bay is a station
20:04<Zuu>a depot is not a station, and you wrote "depo" which to me looks closer to "depot" than "loading bay"
20:04<Hellaciouss>ok, im dropping wood off at a loading bay, but saw mill is not using it
20:04<Zuu>Is the station close enough?
20:05<Hellaciouss>it's touching
20:05<Hellaciouss>the mill
20:05<Zuu>In which window do you see that it "does not use it"?
20:05<Hellaciouss>where it says it requires wood and production last month 0 crates of goods
20:06<Zuu>Does the wood cargo pile up at the station?
20:06<Hellaciouss>and slowly disappears
20:06<Zuu>Do you use any NewGRFs?
20:07<Zuu>Do you use orders that force unloading?
20:07<caracal>does the factory require anything in addition to wood?
20:07<caracal>like rubber, copper ore, etc?
20:07<Zuu>Not if no NewGRFs are used.
20:08<Hellaciouss>no, just says wood, i will take a screen shot
20:08<Zuu>But if you use a NewGRF it can change it so that you need to fullfill any condition you might (and might not) imagne.
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>do not use "transfer" orders
20:10<Zuu>Don't use Transfer and leave empty orders.
20:10<Zuu>The transfer orders are used when you want to transfer cargo from one vehicle to another.
20:11<Zuu>The transfer order tells the vehicle to explicitly not to deliver the cargo to any industry, so that it can be picked up by another vehicle.
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20:13<Hellaciouss>ah ok, giving them orders like that is what I was doing wrong
20:13<Hellaciouss>thanks :)
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---Logclosed Sat Jul 09 00:00:53 2011