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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-07-09

---Logopened Sat Jul 09 00:00:53 2011
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01:59<andythenorth>this is a stupid river
01:59<andythenorth>ignore the pink dots
02:00<andythenorth>building rivers that can flow perpendicular to slopes is silly
02:00<andythenorth>maybe rivers should have directed flow
02:00<andythenorth>bit mask identifying which corner the flow comes from?
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03:23<@Terkhen>good morning
03:24<andythenorth>hi Terkhen
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03:25<andythenorth>is it done yet?
03:28<@Terkhen>what do you mean?
03:31<andythenorth>being facetious :P
03:41<andythenorth>most shores done
03:41<andythenorth>those marked with coloured dots are not valid imo
03:42<andythenorth>there is also a clipping problem with some rapids that I need to look into
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03:44<@planetmaker> <-- any sed (or awk or whatever) wizard here who could hint me how to find a good replacement for that
03:45<@planetmaker>moin also :-)
03:47<andythenorth>hello planetmaker
03:48<@planetmaker>btw, andythenorth the "unneeded" corners in the NE of your setup: they only happen as you have a river tile at sea level there afaik
03:50<andythenorth>rivers at sea level is a silly case
03:50<andythenorth>I'm not drawing graphics for it
03:50*andythenorth is grumpy about rivers - does it show?
03:54<andythenorth>the 'river going along a hillside' case is more dumb
03:57<@planetmaker>rivers at sea levels IMHO need not a special graphics case but some code modification.
03:57<@planetmaker>All needed sprites are there, but the sprite logic fails in this case
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05:05<@planetmaker>moin Alberth
05:12<andythenorth>planetmaker: could you build water_features grf and give me your opinion on temperate sprites?
05:12<andythenorth>if you're busy - nvm
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05:19<@planetmaker>he... andythenorth you should add a license.txt - install fails without ;-)
05:20<@planetmaker>hm... and changelog. Bad thing
05:20<@planetmaker>it shouldn't fail on it
05:20<andythenorth>they're present
05:20<andythenorth>maybe I didn't hg add them
05:21<andythenorth>how odd
05:21<andythenorth>they're hg tracked locally I think, but not in the repo
05:21*andythenorth checks hgignore
05:22<andythenorth>planetmaker: fixed
05:22<andythenorth>they were in the hgignore. no idea why
05:22<@planetmaker>not by default
05:22<andythenorth>I must have copied them in from somewhere
05:22<@planetmaker>they're in there twice even
05:23<andythenorth>that means one of my other grfs doesn't have those files :o
05:24<andythenorth>anyway - solved :)
05:30<@planetmaker>not all sprites are without funky colours, right?
05:31<andythenorth>a bunch of sprites have coloured dots
05:31<andythenorth>to indicate that they shouldn't exist in a sane world :P
05:31<@planetmaker> <-- like that, yes ;-)
05:32<@planetmaker>well... sane world - why not?
05:32<@planetmaker>could be a lake at sea level. They do exist
05:32<andythenorth>well maybe those sea-level ones are valid
05:32<andythenorth>although I think it's stupid and pointless
05:33<andythenorth>and is a griefing opportunity
05:33<andythenorth>(assuming ships that have different speeds for canal / sea)
05:33<@planetmaker>is there a reason to use other sprites at sea level than other heights?
05:33<andythenorth>no idea :)
05:33<andythenorth>rivers seem ill-thought out to me
05:34<@planetmaker>there's two aspects: graphics and game-incorporation / effect
05:35<@planetmaker>wrt graphics they're IMHO quite good
05:35<andythenorth>they seem to fit the alternative water nicely :)
05:35<andythenorth>and the opengfx temperate tiles
05:36<@planetmaker>indeed they do
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05:39<andythenorth>my problems with rivers:
05:39<andythenorth>- rivers can be built at sea
05:39<andythenorth>- rivers can be built perpendicular to hillsides
05:39<andythenorth>- player can demolish a river tile in game, leaving two halves of unconnected river
05:40<andythenorth>- rivers with right angles don't look good, half-tiles are needed for – and |
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05:47<@planetmaker>perpendicular to hill sides is not wrong
05:47<@Alberth>we'll have to make a flood disaster :)
05:47<@planetmaker>a tile is 600km after all ;-)
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05:49<@Alberth>600km? Holland would be just one tile :D
05:50<andythenorth>how is it not wrong? :)
05:50<@planetmaker>how is it wrong, andythenorth ?
05:50<andythenorth>sticky water?
05:51<andythenorth>lets do an experiment
05:52<andythenorth>take a bowl from the kitchen
05:52<andythenorth>fill with water
05:52<andythenorth>now tilt bowl to 30' angle - for added excitement, do this above your laptop
05:52<andythenorth>report results here...
05:52<__ln__>"Voor het vervoer gelden de vervoervoorwaarden."
05:53<@planetmaker>andythenorth: but landscape is not a bowel
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05:55<andythenorth>planetmaker: I'm not going to argue from reality too much :)
05:55<andythenorth>I just find lakes on 30' slopes odd
05:55<andythenorth>we have 'realistic' physics for some things, but 100% magic water
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05:56<andythenorth>if others like the feature....fine
05:56<@planetmaker>odd:,layoutVariant=Poster.html ?
05:57<andythenorth>the slope on the surface of that lake will be quite small
05:57<andythenorth>these are what I find odd:
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05:59<@planetmaker>andythenorth: that's not a problem with the sprites but of the game engine. But currently it can only come into play by explicit player demand
05:59<andythenorth>why don't those lakes run into the sea?
05:59<@planetmaker>So there's no issue either
06:02<andythenorth>planetmaker: yes it's an issue of the game engine ;)
06:02<andythenorth>my critique was aimed in that direction
06:02<@planetmaker>yes. But good existing sprites can be motivation ;-)
06:02<andythenorth>I'm not inclined to finish drawing sprites that I don't think should ever be seen :)
06:02<andythenorth>I can remove the dots
06:03<andythenorth>we assume all such slopes being / end in a spring or sinkhole
06:03<andythenorth>so I draw 'water disappearing underground' sprites
06:06<@Alberth>nice solution!
06:06<andythenorth>sink hole:
06:06<andythenorth>but also your ships would travel through the sink hole?
06:08<@Alberth>they stay afloat, turning in circles above the hole forever :p
06:10<andythenorth>is that feature in trunk? :P
06:10<andythenorth>kraken disaster
06:11<@planetmaker>Those sprites would also be seen ;-)
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09:41<andythenorth>Alberth: this is why groups is hard: :)
09:42<andythenorth>and this is why consists are hard:
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09:45<@Alberth>I'd settle for just a step in the right direction already :)
09:47<andythenorth>it's a Hard Problem
09:48<andythenorth>groups or consists alone would be solvable
09:48<andythenorth>but trying to do them both well together....Hard
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09:58<Eddi|zuHause>do consists, and treat groups like database queries
10:01<@Alberth>imho 'do consists' starts with creating a Consist struct in the program first, which is quite non-trivial :(
10:06<@Alberth>my attempts broke on vehicle shuffling during replace/refit/clone/etc
10:07<@Alberth>If I want to do it, I'll probably have to take the Vehicle pool down, which means killing a large part of the program :p
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10:17<Eddi|zuHause>it probably needs three categories: "consists" (virtual arrangements of vehicles), "instances" (actual copies or clones of a consist) and "vehicles" (single parts of a consist or instance)
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10:17<Eddi|zuHause>things like cached speed limits etc that are currently only valid for front engines would become part of the instance
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10:23<@Alberth>in your terms, I was making an Instance class, without bothering about consists, just to move such data like cached speed limits to Instance
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>i think that doesn't go far enough
10:24<@Alberth>I know, but it is a first step, and that already failed
10:26<@Alberth>although you may not need consists, you could also make a 'real' copy and not use it anywhere
10:26<@Alberth>but that kind of stuff was already too far for me :)
10:27<@Alberth>ha, openttd compiles again :p
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>that reminds me i needed to update nml
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11:55<bobgeldof>now i know my abcs
11:55<bobgeldof>next time won't you sing with me?
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12:06<murr4y>'[' wasn't a part of the alphabet last time i checked
12:07<murr4y>same second :V
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>your smilies are from the picasso-edition of the internet guide?
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14:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22644 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Codechange: Use IsShipDepotTile() instead of single water- and depottests. (adf88)
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14:30<Eddi|zuHause>ccfreak2k: how is that helping? ;)
14:30<ccfreak2k>That's what :v is.
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17:17<MNIM>Eeeek, a UFO destroyed my beautiful intersection
17:19<@Terkhen>they travelled many light years just for that, let them have their fun
17:23<@Terkhen>it's a good solution to Fermi's paradox too: aliens are too busy destroying computer game trains
17:26<MNIM>fermi's paradox?
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17:32<__ln__>is Frankfurt an der Oder a nice place?
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17:32<frosch123>you might be able to see some newer gikes
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>it was kind of a neglected place when i was there ~12 years ago
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17:35<Eddi|zuHause>but that is probably common with lots of minor east german cities
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17:37<__ln__>so if i want to see a not-so-big east german city, that should be ok
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22:20<hibby>hola :)
22:21<hibby>dangit, fallen out with irssi. Back shortly
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22:25<hibby>got a quick question about running as a dedicated server if anyone's about
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 10 00:00:55 2011