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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-07-12

---Logopened Tue Jul 12 00:00:58 2011
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01:46<dihedral>good morning
01:46<dihedral>i seem to not be friends with postgres :-(
01:57<@Terkhen>good morning
02:01<@peter1138>\o/ postgresql
02:08<opa>postgre > oracle
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02:49<MNIM>ach maak dat je opa wijs
02:51<@Terkhen>what?
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02:59<MNIM><opa> postgre > oracle
03:00<MNIM>I answered, freely translated: "Oh, tell that story to yer grandad"
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03:13<dihedral>i hate this thing!
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05:17<dihedral>i have never been so unhappy with the current linux distros as currently
05:18<dihedral>ubuntu: stupid politics - RedHad: kicks out mcrypt module?? - CentOS: way behind - SuSE: don't get me started ...
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05:18<dihedral>arch and gentoo go down the drain anyway for production servers
05:18<dihedral>leaves me with debian ... well .... great!
05:18<dihedral>grrr
05:19*dihedral cries
05:21<@peter1138>debian \o/
05:21<@peter1138>is and always was the best
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06:16*peter1138 grumbles about .net 4's session state behaviour
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08:38<__ln__>dihedral: what about Scientific Linux?
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08:51<@Belugas>hello
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10:07<__ln__>wtf: http://pics.kuvaton.com/kuvei/pencil_art2.jpg
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10:41<xdddd>hello how can I build into openttd my own city?
10:43<@Terkhen>xdddd: http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Economy#Founding_towns_in_game
10:43<@Terkhen>it is quite expensive
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10:46<Yura87>0hai
10:46<Yura87>Any1 on who can confirm?
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10:50<@Belugas>maybe
10:50<@Belugas>hello frosch123
10:51<frosch123>oh, hello sir belugas :)
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10:56<pikka>gintlepong.
10:56<Yura87>dmn, took too long, I found it already myself
10:57<Yura87>One Russian site's IRC channel... members asked for confirmation of German TGRF Bug
11:02<@peter1138>who what where why when how
11:03<frosch123>he this there because then by
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11:07<Scuddles>pikka what are you doing here
11:07<pikka>hello scuddles nice Singapore you have here
11:08<Scuddles>is it actually
11:09<pikka>what I am doing now is going to bed though
11:09<pikka>as there are many singapores to see on the morrow
11:10<pikka>also hello peter
11:10<pikka>et al
11:11<pikka>goodnight
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11:12<Scuddles>look what you did you missed danmack
11:12<@peter1138>missed
11:12<Scuddles>NOT LIKE THAT
11:15<@peter1138>oh
11:24*DanMacK wonders what he missed
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11:26<Nite>anyone fiddling with timetables?
11:26<Nite>i still dont quite understand how to get them "right"
11:27<Nite>my vehicles run late when they have to wait at some intersection and never catch up later
11:27<Nite>releasing vehicles one by one is tedious, can it be automated in some way? (start date?)
11:28<Nite>what is teh scheduled/expected switch?
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11:34<Eddi|zuHause>no, sad to hear, you need to extend some wait times, otherwise they have no chance to catch up. you can set the start date, it will get effective once it arrives (not leave) at the first station again, it shows the departure time with or without taking the current lateness into account
11:38<Nite>i did it the other way - i extended the travel time by roughly one third - so now when they come early they wait longer
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11:47<supermop>hello
11:50<Nite>my conclusion again is: "timetables are no timetables"
11:50<Nite>in no way you can set a specific dat to arrive or depart ...
11:51<supermop>use departure boards + 24hr clock by hhts
11:51<supermop>works incredibly well for what it sets out to do
11:51<Nite>?
11:51<Nite>is it a patch?
11:52<Chris_Booth>yes
11:52<Nite>sounds cool
11:53<Nite>(timetables are the only added feature i woudl throw out as whole, seriously does anybody use them in a way that makes sense?)
11:54<Nite>(i take the first part back and fiddle some more)
11:54<supermop>i use them alot with the above patch
11:55<Nite>can i celar the whole timetable somehow?
11:55<Nite>"clear"
11:56<Chris_Booth>Nite: I use them alot
11:57<Chris_Booth>with FIRS for example I use them to make sure I drop supply every month
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>there was, but might be one of the patches
11:58<supermop>i drew a georgian building to replace a statue, eddie
11:58<supermop>not sure if it makes any sense
11:59<supermop>but it is of a style that pass as appropriate from 1490 - 1860 with a bit of imagination
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12:20<Nite>the problem with exact timetables is that you cannot divide 31
12:20*Hyronymus begs to disagree
12:20<supermop>it could look palladian, elizabethan, neoclassican, georgian, maybe even national romantic
12:21-!-LordAro [~kvirc@88-110-149-126.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd
12:21<LordAro>evenings
12:21<Nite>but still i can do a timetable that lasts exactly 31 days or a multiple of it
12:21<Hyronymus>hi LordAro
12:21<Nite>its forming togehter
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12:37<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22661 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix (r22659): Silence a gcc warning.
12:37<LordAro>hmm... why is mediawiki (on wiki.openttd.org) so out of date?
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>because nobody bothered to update?
12:39<__ln__>nobody has been lazy
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.n24.de/media/_fotos/bildergalerien/terencehill/14NOBODY_amazon.jpg <-- like this?
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12:56<SpComb>pong
12:56<LordAro>ping
12:57<LordAro>Eddi: maybe someone should? i personally have had a couple of complaints :) (yes, i know you can't do anything about it)
12:58<LordAro>hai Alberth :)
12:59<@Alberth>hai LordAro :)
12:59<@Alberth>how did the exams go?
12:59<LordAro>not too bad...
12:59<LordAro>..i hope :)
12:59<LordAro>results on 25th august, so i'll see soon
13:00<@Alberth>not much you can do about it any more :)
13:01<LordAro>my thoughts precisely
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13:05-!-Ammler is "Marcel Gmür" on #openttd #openttdcoop.stable @+#coopetition
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13:06<LordAro>Alberth: i'm still stuck on newgrf readme's btw :(
13:06<@Alberth>:(
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13:08<LordAro>you want a go?
13:09<LordAro>i think all i need is a function (or whatever) that returns a usable char (or whatever) for the gui
13:09<LordAro>can you do that? pleeeeaseee? :P
13:09<@Alberth>the big blob of text did not work?
13:10<@Alberth>(as in, I don't exactly understand what you need)
13:11<@Alberth>loading from a file just gives you the same blob of text
13:12<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22662 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r22639)[FS#4683]: Ships can also travel on certain rail tiles.
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13:17<LordAro>Alberth: that's what i want :) all i've got (that works) at the moment is a bool function that returns whether the newgrf has a readme or not
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13:18<LordAro>openttdcoop seems to be having issues...
13:19<@Alberth>nah :)
13:20-!-HatsForCats [~HatsForCa@5e0f6c3a.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
13:20<@Alberth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/338/ <-- some text, a getcharacter function, and a untested main() test/demo function.
13:21<@Alberth>hmm, at least it needs #include <stdio.h> :)
13:22<Ammler>sorry for the join/part spam :-P
13:23<Ammler>join/part/rename*
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13:27<LordAro>Alberth: ok, thanbks, but i don't understand how to get the 'static const char *text' in the first place
13:28<@Alberth>you don't.
13:28<@Alberth>this is sufficient as source for getting stuff displayed at a gui
13:30<LordAro>? i mean in ottd..
13:31<@Alberth>You use FioFOpenFileTar() to get a FILE * handle, and size, then malloc enough space, and read the data with fread. then fclose() the FILE *.
13:32<@Alberth>but the malloc gives you also a char *, just like the 'text' you have in that sample code
13:32<LordAro>perfect :)
13:32-!-Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:32*LordAro saves a log of this channel
13:33<@Alberth>so if you can display the text in 'text', you can also display ASCII loaded from a README
13:33<@Alberth>obviously, not all authors will use ASCII though :p
13:34<@Alberth>some will make a Windows text file, or use some unicode encoding
13:34<Rubidium>lies... ASCII or UTF8 ;)
13:35-!-TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:35<@Alberth>but display of plain ASCII is sufficient challenge for now :)
13:35<@Alberth>Hi Rubidium!
13:36<@Alberth>I hope not all ASCII, no idea how to display STX :D
13:36<@Alberth>or the more useful CLS :)
13:37-!-Hyr|LeChef is now known as Hyronymus
13:37<@Alberth>finished cooking?
13:39<Hyronymus>and dining
13:39<Hyronymus>twas lovely
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22663 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: croatian - 5 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: dutch - 5 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: italian - 6 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: russian - 6 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45-!-|Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen
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13:54<LordAro>Terkhen: qwiimote looks interesting ;)
13:55-!-Nite [5472b1fc@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:56<Terkhen>thank you :)
13:56<Terkhen>it is part of my final year project, due this friday :P
14:00-!-keky___ [~stefan@p5098b65a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
14:01<LordAro>sounds fun
14:01<LordAro>(no sarcasm intended :) )
14:01-!-andythenorth [~Andy@87.113.139.15] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
14:03<Terkhen>it is kind of boring, I'm using the wiimote to store the orientation of a 3D scanner so you can use that information later to place each mesh in its correct place automatically
14:03<Terkhen>it had interesting problems to solve, though
14:05<LordAro>interesting == hard ?
14:06<Terkhen>both, yes :P
14:07-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
14:08<@Alberth>my hard problems tend to end up near 'unsolvable' :(
14:08-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust387.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
14:09<Terkhen>yes, truly hard problems move from "interesting" to "frustrating" quickly
14:10<LordAro>p = np :)
14:11<@Alberth>that is beyond unsolvable :)
14:11<@Alberth>stuff like deducing types in compilers
14:11<frosch123>my lecturer used to say "you can become famous with that"
14:11<Rubidium>what? It has been proven that you can't proof or disproof p = np?
14:12<Terkhen>mine said "there is a million dollars waiting for you if you solve this"
14:12<@Alberth>frosch123: I have no doubt, you just have to either proof or disprove it :p
14:12<@Alberth>Rubidium: that would be an interesting proof :)
14:14-!-DDR [~DDR@66.183.113.68] has joined #openttd
14:16<andythenorth>hola
14:16<andythenorth>frosch123: I like newgrf utopia
14:16<frosch123>that's the main point of an utopia, isn't it? :p
14:17-!-Amis [~Amis@dsl51B65572.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
14:18<andythenorth>original utopia was conceived as a dystopia iirc
14:18*andythenorth wiki
14:19<frosch123>apparently there were no newgrfs back then :p
14:20<hibby>hahah
14:21<LordAro>heh, n = np is an irrational proof :)
14:21<frosch123>LordAro: you should study the axiom of choice
14:21<LordAro>(yes, it took me that long [and wikipedia] to remeber the word 'irrational' ^^ )
14:22*LordAro googles axiom
14:22<LordAro>Alberth: your openttdcoop paste is missing a "
14:22<LordAro>:P
14:23<andythenorth>frosch123: we probably still need to be backwards compatible with UtopiaPatch
14:23<andythenorth>As that is the reference spec
14:23<andythenorth>OpenUtopia is just an (partially incorrect) implementation
14:23<@Alberth>LordAro: could be, I didn't test it
14:24<LordAro>it works apart from that though ;)
14:24*LordAro ponders
14:25<@Alberth>I may hope so after programming for 30 or so years :)
14:27<LordAro>and a phd (?)
14:28<andythenorth>how long have I been programming?
14:28<frosch123>andythenorth: do you consider ottd's gameworld an utopia?
14:28<andythenorth>does 'ch. "chuckie egg" count as programming?
14:28<frosch123>are you a traindriver, or a passenger?
14:30<@Alberth>LordAro: you do what you like to do, and some people want to give you a degree for it :p
14:30<LordAro>very nice of them
14:30<andythenorth>I did that on my degree
14:31<andythenorth>second time round :P
14:33<@peter1138>no it doesn't :S
14:34*LordAro -> out (apologies andythenorth for copying you :) )
14:36-!-supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop]
14:40<andythenorth>does '10 print "rude words" 20 goto 10' count as programming?
14:42*Alberth ponders whether he ever typed line numbers in BASIC :)
14:42<@Alberth>I did, most likely :)
14:42<andythenorth>taught me defensive programming at a very early age :P
14:43<andythenorth>I think my love of very long variable and function names may be somehow related
14:43<andythenorth>means nfo-without renum was like coming home
14:43<andythenorth>nfo-with-renum was better however
14:43<@Alberth>it counts as programming imho, in particular if you also got it to stop without switching off the machine :)
14:43*andythenorth considers playing the game
14:43<frosch123>i think i once run out of numbers, and then added a goto to somewhere else and jumped back later on :p
14:44*LordAro isn't going out, actually
14:44<andythenorth>yesterday trying to play the game was just 20 mins of annoying
14:44<LordAro>hmm, is the auto-nightly thing fixed yet?
14:45<Zuu>LordAro: OpenTTD Auto Update?
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: you mean like typing ^C?
14:45<frosch123>LordAro: http://pics.nase-bohren.de/reality.jpg
14:45<@Alberth>last sunday I played the game of getting to understand the structure of binary data from half-finished reverse engineered descriptions, it was quite fun :)
14:45-!-bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.85.169] has joined #openttd
14:46<LordAro>Zuu: afraid not, the openttd (ex-)build-bot thing
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>i think that was one of the earliest key combinations i learned :p
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i played that game a few month ago
14:46<@Alberth>I don't remember what it was at my machine, I think ESC :)
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>it gets fun when you actually succeed ;)
14:46<LordAro>frosch123: i agree, but what brought that up?
14:46<frosch123>you not wanting to go out
14:47*LordAro just lost The Game
14:47<LordAro>frosch123: i thought so, just clarifying :)
14:47<andythenorth>the game isn't valid on irc
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i need a wider screen...
14:48<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: nah, just use smaller letters
14:48<andythenorth>suggestion: new button "random grfs"
14:48<andythenorth>:P
14:48<LordAro>andythenorth: really? /me tries facebook :)
14:48<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: get some old display, and convince your cats that it is the nicer one to sit in front of
14:48<@Alberth>it mostly leads to non-playable games, I guess :)
14:49<@Alberth>or lie on top of :)
14:49<LordAro>andythenorth: thats very similar to 'playlists' (i cant remember the correct word atm)
14:50<Zuu>LordAro: Good, then it's not a problem for me to solve ;-)
14:50<frosch123>Alberth: maybe it could result in deleting all those crappy grfs you do not want to play with :p
14:50<andythenorth>"A fatal newgrf error has occurred"
14:50<andythenorth>ffs
14:50<andythenorth>I'm bored of playing "which newgrfs work" :P
14:51<andythenorth>I have been trying to solve that by providing newgrfs that work
14:51<@Alberth>frosch123: good idea. To be on the safe side, let's remove all of them :)
14:51<andythenorth>but I only have so much time :(
14:51<LordAro>Alberth: *like*
14:51<@Alberth>andythenorth: just play plain trunk
14:51<@Alberth>without any newgrfs
14:51<andythenorth>meh
14:52<frosch123>Alberth: you mean "a good game is not a good game if there is nothing more to add, but nothing more to remove"?
14:52<@Alberth>LordAro: find / -name "*.grf" -exec rm "{}" ";"
14:52<andythenorth>if I announce putting FISH on hold, then draw for it, do I look like a lose?
14:52<andythenorth>r
14:53<@Alberth>frosch123: removing is much harder than adding
14:53<frosch123>andythenorth: register a second nick
14:53<andythenorth> he
14:53<andythenorth>sock puppet
14:53<andythenorth>sock puppet can deal with the feedback :P
14:53<andythenorth>feedback on quality of drawing is useful
14:53<@Alberth>fred may be able to help :)
14:53<andythenorth>feedback on gameplay is useful
14:54<andythenorth>feedback on 'this is unrealistic' is not useful
14:54<andythenorth>when the cause of 'unrealistic' is 'this is how ottd works' it's annoying
14:54<andythenorth>and when I'm told I'm being lazy and childish I just want to stop hanging out around ottd :P
14:54*andythenorth plays the lovely game
14:55<@Alberth>andythenorth: such cheap words when one does not come up with a better alternative, imho
14:55<andythenorth>stumbled at the first hurdle so far
14:55<andythenorth>"omg it's not png"
14:55<andythenorth>we'll see
14:59<LordAro>whats the hg command to remove all un-commited files (the '?' files)
15:00<LordAro>?
15:00<frosch123>i think there is only one to add all ?
15:01<frosch123>hhmm, though maybe cleanup?
15:01<andythenorth>hg purge
15:01<andythenorth>if you enable the extension
15:01<andythenorth>useful but dangerous :P
15:01<LordAro>thanks andy
15:02-!-JVassie [~James@host-92-27-149-231.static.as13285.net] has joined #openttd
15:02<LordAro>except i just did hg diff when i have git style diffs turned on and i added lots of binary files -_-
15:03<andythenorth>hmm
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: what's an .xcf file for?
15:03<andythenorth>TAI is probably going to be quite hard
15:04<andythenorth>with yacd
15:04<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: gimp
15:04<andythenorth>I have built very expensive train and will probably lose soon :P
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: yes, but why use that over a .png?
15:04<@Alberth>multi-layer source file ?
15:06<frosch123>yup
15:08*LordAro gave up and deleted the checkout
15:13*LordAro is actually going out... :rolleyes:
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15:24<Hellaciouss>hey guys
15:24<Hellaciouss>why is it I am unable to build any sort of station before 1920ish in single player mode?
15:25<Hellaciouss>i am unable to build any type of road station before 1930
15:26<Hellaciouss>and no rail stations before 1925
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15:26<Hellaciouss>which basically means I can't start any single player game before 1925 or I can't actually build anything
15:28<frosch123>proably because you have not activated any newgrf which supplies vehicles in those early years
15:28<frosch123>the default vehicle only start 1930-1950
15:29-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-52-20.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
15:29<Hellaciouss>how do i activate those?
15:29<frosch123>http://wiki.openttd.org/Newgrf
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15:33<Hellaciouss>know the name of the grf that lets you start with them earlier?
15:34<frosch123>try egrtv for road vehicles
15:34<frosch123>fish for ships
15:34<frosch123>hmm, maybe nars 2 for trains
15:34<frosch123>but there are many trainsets
15:34<frosch123>and av8 for aircraft
15:35<frosch123>just do not pick too much :)
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16:09<frosch123>night
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16:14<asdasdf>how do i buy planes
16:15<asdasdf>asdasd
16:15<asdasdf>how do i buye planes in ttd
16:18<asdasdf>fffff
16:18<asdasdf>cmon someone tell me
16:18<opa>click the nagar
16:18<V453000>lol
16:18<opa>hangar
16:18<fjb>Just click the hangar.
16:18<asdasdf>what hangar
16:18<asdasdf>i clicked my airport
16:18<asdasdf>there is no option
16:18<fjb>And please be patient when asking here.
16:18<V453000>go play some other game
16:18<asdasdf>rude
16:18<asdasdf>wheres the hangar
16:19<fjb>At the airport.
16:19<V453000>under water
16:19<asdasdf>ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
16:19<asdasdf>well thats gaye
16:19<asdasdf>whoever thought not to highlight it
16:19<asdasdf>or some shite
16:19<asdasdf>fuck off v453000
16:19<V453000>thanks
16:19<fjb>Please watch your language.
16:19<fjb>And go read the manual.
16:19<asdasdf>i didnt find any
16:20<asdasdf>on the site
16:20<asdasdf>ok
16:20<V453000>google is your friend
16:20<asdasdf>i looked for 15 seconds
16:20<asdasdf>i googled "how to buy planes in transport tycoon"
16:20-!-asdasdf [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
16:20<V453000>that was ... a wonderful person :D
16:20<fjb>15 Seconds? Wow.
16:20<V453000>I think you should make the installation of openttd more idiot-proof
16:21<V453000>so that people like this dont get the opportunity to play it
16:21<V453000>:d
16:22<fjb>It is open for everybody. But with his impatience and uncreativity he will not have fun anyway.
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16:29<V453000>:P
16:29<V453000>but what if he does :D
16:31<Rubidium>it used to be idiot proof, until some idiot made a Windows installer and some other idiots added it to the repositories of several distributions
16:33<V453000>:DDD
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17:00<Terkhen>good night
17:02<__ln__>average night
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17:18<LordAro>back
17:18<LordAro>who's still here?
17:21<__ln__>everyone except you and me appear to be still
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17:22<Hellaciouss><Hellaciouss> anyone know of a good guide for placing track signals?
17:22<Hellaciouss><Hellaciouss> apparently i suck at it cause my trains get stuck/crash :D
17:23<opa>http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals
17:23<opa>this?
17:23<__ln__>trains never crash unless you order them to drive against a red signal
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>actually, they might do in some corner cases when mixing path and block signals
17:24<V453000>^
17:25<Hellaciouss>oh my trains crash lol
17:26<Hellaciouss>and my planes crash
17:26<Hellaciouss>it sucks :(
17:29<V453000>plane crashes can be turned off
17:29<V453000>not sure if you mess up train breakdowns and crashes, but breakdowns can be turned off too
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17:33<Eddi|zuHause>i think we will get evil "how can i do that" questions in the next 5+ years: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=4141
17:34<LordAro>how can you do that? or is it a mockup?
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>those are "objects", i.e. you can't build on the platforms
17:35<LordAro>that makes sense
17:35<LordAro>is there a way to import a whole hg mq patch queue? not just 1 patch at a time?
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>copy the patches to the .hg dir?
17:36<LordAro>guess so
17:40<LordAro>night all
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18:24<Holborn>hi ... I just download the game .. :-) my question is if I can join a multiplayer server only to be a spectator? .. I think I need a lot of practice before play ... but I want to see .. is that possible?
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18:27<Rubidium>yes, you can join as spectator
18:27<Holborn>oh thanks :-)
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18:51<Gizmokid2005>Is there any way to fast forward time with either a listen or dedicated server?
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19:10<Eddi|zuHause>fast forward only works in single player
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20:08<Gizmokid2005>Eddi|zuHause: bah, I was hoping that wasn't the cas.e
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---Logclosed Wed Jul 13 00:00:32 2011