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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-07-14

---Logopened Thu Jul 14 00:00:33 2011
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02:07<Terkhen>good morning
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04:46<__ln__>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-14130854
04:49<@peter1138>ah, bbc impartially promoting some entrepreneur
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06:17-!-ServerMode/#openttd [+ovov planetmaker michi_cc DorpsGek DorpsGek] by charon.oftc.net
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06:42<Eddi|zuHause>the trackdirs are somehow wrongly ordered
06:42<Eddi|zuHause>TRACKDIR_X_NE and TRACKDIR_X_SW should be swapped
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>someone tell andythenorth i updated the diff at www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_and_adjacent_crossings_r22664.diff
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>but i still have some issue where it doesn't reserve tracks properly
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07:22<@peter1138>hm
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07:24<Eddi|zuHause>damn, i always forget the -j12
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07:59<dihedral>hoot hoot
07:59<dihedral>ding ding ding ding ding
08:02<MNIM>beep beep beep
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08:03<nextinline>i got a strange bug
08:04<nextinline>for some reason, the volume's really low even when the computer's at 100
08:04<V453000>and openttd volume? ..
08:04<nextinline>where do i find that
08:05<V453000>in the music menu in game
08:05<nextinline>for some reason its at minimum thanks
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08:44<__ln__>http://narf-archive.com/pix/96f6bee30bd7fc28158450e89f5dc5b7f008c4a0.jpg (sfw)
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09:00<Eddi|zuHause>it's skew (if that's the right word)
09:07<LordAro>afternoon all
09:10<@Belugas>hello
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09:21<@peter1138>http://abstrusegoose.com/strips/humans_get_your_ass_to_mars.png
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>it's fairly useless to get humans on mars, i think we should rather get plants to mars, and let an ecosystem developed
09:26<__ln__>do plants survive without animals?
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>depends
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>ones that grow blooms probably not.
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>but to start up an ecology, you probably need more primitive ones
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>the obvious first problem is the cold temperatures
09:31<@planetmaker>there are enough plants whose pollen carry by wind alone
09:31<__ln__>and the lack of water
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>water might not be an immediate problem, so long as you have significant storages of oxygen and carbon atoms somewhere on the planet
09:33<dihedral>cactus
09:34<dihedral>well send a bottle of water every x years
09:34<@planetmaker>oxygen is there (that's why it's the red planet). Carbon... from the atmosphere. It's 95% CO2
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>exactly
09:35<@planetmaker>water... you have about a few µm of precipitation on Mars annually
09:35<MNIM>You'll need bacteria and algae before big plants.
09:35<@planetmaker>compared to roughly a meter on Earth
09:36<@planetmaker>algae. lichen. They'll do for a starter indeed.
09:36<MNIM>mostly because they're far more resilient, existing on both of our earth polar regions.
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>the point is to get some sort of life cycle started, to build upon
09:37<Eddi|zuHause>"life" in the sense of "processing chemicals"
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>with a few pointers from mankind to make a process that takes 5 billion years to complete in a few hundred
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>bonus points for getting a breathable atmosphere
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>but that might not be necessary
09:41<@planetmaker>yohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy :-)
09:41<@planetmaker>uhm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy
09:42<@planetmaker>recommended reading on that topic ;-)
09:43<__ln__>if e.g. the chinese chose to start terraforming mars, would other countries object?
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>countries will always object to anything...
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09:52<__ln__>i would like the extra 39 minutes in a day that they have
09:52<__ln__>the martians, not the chinese
09:57<dihedral>just please leave japanese people here as they are damaging the earth anyway ... (more so than others at least :P)
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09:58<@planetmaker>that's not even true, if you go by media coverage.
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>more often than not, mistakes and disasters bring further development than what would have happened otherwise
10:00<Chris_Booth>if anything we should leave the canadians behind as they produce more CO2 and greenhouse gasses per person than any other nation in the world
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>actually inhabitants of the gulf states have the highest ecological footprint on the planet
10:01<Chris_Booth>are you sure about that Eddi|zuHause?
10:02<TWerkhoven>isnt petrol less than 50p a litre there?
10:05<Chris_Booth>http://www.breathingearth.net/
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>Chris_Booth: ecological footprint in "global hectar (hag)" per inhabitant: http://www.arte.tv/i18n/Import/MOK/articles/21116/imagesmap/im__2111607/3687608,property=imageData,maxWidth=634,scale=unproportional,templateId=scaled,v=1,CmPart=com.arte-tv.www.jpg
10:06<Chris_Booth>A cool animated website showing CO2 and birth rates
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>CO2 makes around 50% of the ecological footprint
10:07<Chris_Booth>yes I missed them on my cool map I was looking at as ther are so small
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10:33<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i am lacking an inspiration on what to do right now...
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>not getting anywhere with the level crossing reservation problem
10:34<dihedral>find me a nice holiday for around oct/nov ? :-P
10:34<dihedral>14 days please
10:34<dihedral>(and affordable) :-P
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>strange time for a holiday ;)
10:38<dihedral>well - no chance in getting 14 days off any earlier
10:38<@Belugas>dihedral: come here :) I offer the bed, you offer the arms for basement painting and all ;)
10:38<@Alberth>dihedral: just quit your job :)
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: he already does that every half year :p
10:38<dihedral>Belugas, that is honestly tempting
10:39<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, wrong :-P
10:40<dihedral>has not happend in the last 6 months :-D
10:40<dihedral>and i probably will not with this job either
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10:53<andythenorth>why is alluke such an idiot?
10:54<andythenorth>one of many unanswered questions in life :P
10:54<andythenorth>the universe must know this stuff
10:55<andythenorth>is there more information than there is universe?
10:55<@Belugas>dihedral, I'll allow you to get out of the basement at least once a day :) I'll drive you around on sundays as well
10:55<@Belugas>hehehe
10:56<@Belugas>alluke? on forums?
10:56<andythenorth>yarp
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10:59<dihedral>"yarp" lol
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11:00<@peter1138>hurr, my du --max-depth 1 hasn't finished :S
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11:15<dihedral>lol
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11:18<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=44703&p=957110#p957110 <-- andythenorth ;-)
11:18<andythenorth>he
11:18<andythenorth>that's kind of what I wanted to say, except I would have been ruder
11:18<andythenorth>I have history with that fine community member
11:19<andythenorth>he accused me of discrimination - his claim was that FISH would support FIRS better than other sets iirc :P
11:19<andythenorth>silly boy
11:19<andythenorth>discrimination is (a) an exercise of taste in one meaning (b) a dangerous word to throw around loosely in its other meaning
11:20*andythenorth back to work
11:20<@planetmaker>lool. Did he really hold that against you?
11:20<@planetmaker>oh my. Lost cause then
11:20<andythenorth>he
11:21<supermop>good morning
11:22<andythenorth>hello super
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11:52<Eddi|zuHause>i smell a spammer in the graphics forum
11:56<supermop>spamming graphics?
11:56<Chris_Booth>spam fritters?
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12:36<LordAro>hi all
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12:41<LordAro>Alberth: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/1310570649#1310570649 <-- i can't be bothered to repeat myself, and get even more confused.. :L
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13:06<__ln__>http://www.spotify.com/us/blog/archives/2011/07/14/hello-america-spotify-here/
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13:39<@Alberth>LordAro: my version of GrfHasReadme() does not use data members of the class (that is, it does not use "this->"). It can thus be a static function, or a function outside the class, whatever you prefer.
13:40<@Alberth>as for making a flag in the newgrf structure, it is an interesting idea, but are you going to support multiple languages?
13:41<LordAro>not yet :]
13:41<LordAro>so i just do (e.g.) static bool GrfHasReadme(... ?
13:42<@Alberth>if you do, you're going to need a flag for every language, making it a non-optimal solution, imho
13:42<@Alberth>static should work
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: it could be a flag for "has at least english readme", and then dynamically check if translations are available when displaying the readme
13:44<Eddi|zuHause>or a very wide bitmask.
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13:44<@Alberth>just put the function somewhere. I don't know what the code will finally look like, and moving is pretty easy.
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22665 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt romanian.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: portuguese - 5 changes by JayCity
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: romanian - 5 changes by kkmic
13:45*frosch123 ->DoSports()
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13:45<Eddi|zuHause>raise(ESportIstMord)
13:47<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: it may be useful for enabling/disabling the 'read the readme' button perhaps.
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: yes, for enabling that button, only knowledge of an english/fallback readme is relevant
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>so you do not need a flag for each language
13:48<@Alberth>LordAro will keep it in mind :)
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>upon clicking the button, it will search for a readme in the appropriate language, or show the fallback
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13:49<@Alberth>why do people join and leave so fast?
13:49<LordAro>will i? (keep it in mind? :)
13:50<@Alberth>of course! :D
13:50<@Alberth>I made a note too, in case you misplaced that information :)
13:51<@Alberth>Thanks Eddi
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13:57<Wolf01>hello
13:58<__ln__>, said Wolf01
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14:15*LordAro shoves the function in newgrf_config.cpp (for the record)
14:17<@Alberth>as long as it stays in your patch, it does not matter :)
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>how evil would it be to break all grfs which do ActionA replacement of level crossings?
14:21<LordAro>gah, computer's too slow to compile and watch youtube at the same time >< :)
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>(i.e. simply ignore that sprite)
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14:22<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you mean the stupid pre-composited crossing sprite by any chance?
14:22<Chris_Booth>Eddi|zuHause: would be funy IMO
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, that one. only allow the overlay-variant
14:23<andythenorth>I proposed that earlier in the year :)
14:23<andythenorth>when I dug into the crossing code, I thought it was a bit stupid
14:23<andythenorth>I have n patches with different variations somewhere
14:23<andythenorth>the cases for monorail and maglev suck I'm afraid
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: anyway, i updated the patch at the previous location, road vehicles should behave correctly now in both directions
14:24<andythenorth>http://tt-foundry.com/misc/crossings-ng-rails.png
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the default rails need additional overlay sprites
14:24<andythenorth>let me get my head back into everything I learnt about this
14:24<andythenorth>I spent about a day on it in the end
14:25<andythenorth>there's an issue that the pbs overlay sprite is also stupid, as it includes sleepers but not ballast
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>i still have some case where it doesn't reserve paths correctly
14:25<andythenorth>the pbs overlay should just include rails, but there's some reason it can't
14:26<andythenorth>there's a different edge case somewhere iirc
14:26<andythenorth>I was proven wrong at the time :P
14:26<andythenorth>I remember my goal
14:26<andythenorth>it was to prevent tram crossings showing tarmac where there's no tarmac road bit on the tile
14:27<@Alberth>get rich and famous ?
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>nah, you'll only have trouble with that
14:27<andythenorth>I got this close: http://tt-foundry.com/misc/road-rail-crossing-10.png
14:28<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: anyway....do you need new sprites for diagonals?
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>no, the diagonal sprites are ready
14:28<andythenorth>oh how shiny
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>they are taken from Maedhros' old patch
14:28<andythenorth>I didn't want to draw them...but I would if no-one else had :P
14:29<LordAro>ahh! scary squirrel related error messages! http://pastebin.com/VAiCGTEY
14:29<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: do you need to eliminate that composite tile for your patch? As there is no diagonal
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>the diagonal overlay sprites are here, if you want to take a look: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diag_cross.png
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>all standard rails and their toyland counterpart
14:30<andythenorth>so they're overlays
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>plus the lights
14:30<andythenorth>not composited with road
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>yes
14:31<andythenorth>I wondered about two consecutive patches
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>that's why i thought better remove the composite variant completely
14:31<andythenorth>one eliminating that tile entirely...
14:31<andythenorth>and the diagonal patch
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>yep
14:31<Chris_Booth>ooh diagonal rail crossing shiny
14:31<andythenorth>you have code for eliminating the composite tile?
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>no
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>i also have no overlay graphics for the straight rails
14:32<andythenorth>let me see if I kept my patch :P
14:32<andythenorth>it would be commit #3 for me
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>always keep your patches :p
14:34<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=52122&hilit=crossing
14:34<LordAro>help me someone :) i haven't touched the squirrel files...
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: that's the kind of error you get from forgetting a ; in a header file
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>or other syntax errors
14:38<LordAro>i've looked... can someone check my patch file(s merged into one) : http://pastebin.com/Rvs73Ejq
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14:44<Eddi|zuHause>"patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line"
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: compiles fine here, until newgrf_config.cpp
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: try a make clean?
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15:13<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: done that :/
15:13<LordAro>the errors i posted happen in ai_instance.cpp
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15:19<fjb>cr instead of crlf or the other way round at the end of a line?
15:20<Rubidium>ai_instance.cpp includes a hell of a lot of files, so a missing } or something can yield a gigantic amount of errors that seem totally unrelated
15:20<Rubidium>the problem almost certainly is in one of the headers you changed
15:21*LordAro checks again...
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15:26<Rubidium>can you show the diff?
15:28<LordAro>http://pastebin.com/Rvs73Ejq
15:30<Rubidium>1) why the fileio_func.h inclusion in newgrf_config.h?
15:31<Rubidium>2) constants are, IMO, more types that functions so it should be in fileio_type.h (is it actually used?)
15:32<Rubidium>3) for what its worth, it compiles ai_instance.cpp fine for me
15:32<Rubidium>maybe it's the wrong diff?
15:32<LordAro>1) for the GrfHasReadme function
15:33<LordAro>2) maybe, its not used (yet) so it shouldn't be too much bother :)
15:33<Rubidium>but only the implementation needs it, so the .cpp that implements it needs to include it
15:33<LordAro>3) okay... thats odd :)
15:33<Rubidium>not some header, because in that case basically all headers need to include all other headers which makes compiling really really slow
15:34<LordAro>ok, i'll check that
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15:54<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you want me to test your latest patch?
15:54<andythenorth>where is it?
15:54<supermop>new patch?
15:55<andythenorth>crossings
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16:06<supermop>cooool
16:07<supermop>i tried making a spreadsheet of the different roadtype elements and superpositions i would like yesterday
16:07<supermop>but got a little hung up on a philosophical/conceptual issue
16:08<andythenorth>?
16:08<supermop>well if there are 3 possible bits
16:09<supermop>i'm guessing you could have a matrix with 3 axes
16:09<supermop>but what to put on each axis was the problem
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16:10<supermop>at first i decided to have the first axis be for the pavement type
16:10<supermop>and the second for area (rural/urban etc)
16:10<supermop>then the 3rd for power
16:11<Hellaciouss>hmmm i dunno what grf is in this game but monorail systems attached to raw materials seem to make the producer of the raw material skyrocket in produced products per month
16:11<supermop>ie, none, cable vault, trolley wire
16:11<Hellaciouss>this coal mine has 1,400 coal a month production
16:11<Hellaciouss>and everything else being used in conjuction with monorail has fairly high output
16:12<Hellaciouss>anything with maglev or electric is normal
16:13<Rubidium>a high station ration significantly increases the chance of production increases, regardless the behaviour is 'random'
16:13<Rubidium>so even with perfect ratings an industry can close, or with the baddest rating it can get to maximum production
16:14<Rubidium>although maglev should do better than monorail in creating high ratings
16:14<Rubidium>but... new vehicles temporarily create a higher rating as well
16:15<Rubidium>so the results might be skewed for some reason
16:15<Rubidium>also lots of waiting cargo reduces the ratings significantly
16:15<Hellaciouss>well nothing without monrail has an abnormal production rating
16:16<Hellaciouss>everything monorail has pretty high production rating
16:16<Hellaciouss>guess it's just a coincidence
16:18<Rubidium>in any case, the industry code has no clue what kind of station receives the cargo. So it can't be coupled to the type of station (or railtype)
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16:20<Hellaciouss>just sayin, it's od that every single monorail connected facility has 3-4 times the production rate then any maglev or electic
16:20<Hellaciouss>guess the stars just aligned
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16:54<andythenorth>docks might cost more in property maintenance than rail stations? :o
16:54<andythenorth>14 rail stations is about £8 / year
16:55<andythenorth>*10^3
16:55<andythenorth>14 docks seems to be about £16k
16:55<andythenorth>are both tiles of a dock counted?
16:56<andythenorth>I might be remembering wrong though
16:56<@planetmaker>bah... Nekomaster is soooo thick
16:58<@planetmaker>anyway... good night all :-)
16:58<andythenorth>:)
17:06*andythenorth is rather glad that pikka has no shame about infringing copyright
17:06<andythenorth>it makes TAI rather good
17:06<andythenorth>although of no use if we need to maintain his set :P
17:06<supermop>never used it
17:07<@Terkhen>good night
17:07<andythenorth>good night
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18:12<Wolf01>'night
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19:16<Nowaker>hi. anyone can tell me how to generate a map from heightmap on dedicated server?
19:16<Nowaker>what the commands are. I couldn't find it in ottd wiki
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19:43<Eddi|zuHause>Nowaker: best if you generate the map on single player, and upload the scenario/savegame then onto the server
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>no idea if there actually are commands
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19:51<Nowaker>Eddi|zuHause: I see. thanks
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---Logclosed Fri Jul 15 00:00:58 2011