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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-07-24

---Logopened Sun Jul 24 00:00:19 2011
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01:51*andythenorth is feeling oppressed by openttd
01:51<andythenorth>my trains have to run on tracks
01:51<andythenorth>unfree
01:57<@peter1138>yes, it is sickening
01:59<andythenorth>it's almost directly equivalent to torture and genocide
02:00<andythenorth>and the large scale repression of populations via slavery or forced labour and denial of basic rights
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03:03<Prof_Frink>andythenorth: Go back to TTDPatch. Then, your trains could roam free on the high seas.
03:04<Prof_Frink>(Well, water half of diagonal coastline tiles)
03:04<andythenorth>don't oppress me with your TTDPatch
03:04<andythenorth>Opression!
03:04<andythenorth>Witch!
03:04<andythenorth>Burn them!
03:04*Prof_Frink burns andythenorth
03:05*andythenorth stops trolling forums
03:05<andythenorth>and builds a lego
03:06<andythenorth>I am too impatient to be a really good troll
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03:59<@planetmaker>moin
04:00<andythenorth>hola
04:00<@planetmaker>hm... lego. Sorry, andy, my parabole works with wood blocks ;-)
04:00<andythenorth>it wouldn't work with lego
04:00<@planetmaker>:-)
04:00<andythenorth>I just spent the last hour fishing lego technic out of the baby
04:00<@planetmaker>lool :-) Lego and baby is exactly that phenomenon
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04:01<@planetmaker>not good going together
04:01<@Terkhen>good morning
04:01<@planetmaker>hi Terkhen
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04:05<andythenorth>that thread is at least fun
04:05<andythenorth>and I have respect for anyone trying to defend freedom
04:05<andythenorth>it's quite silly to argue against that principle
04:05<andythenorth>but I fear that if he's so easily defeated by Pikka...
04:05<andythenorth>he might not be much use in the face of real oppression :o
04:06<@planetmaker>he
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04:06*andythenorth would be useless as an opponent of opression
04:06<@planetmaker>nah, the point is he is using the freedom argument in a wrong way. Thus he was bound to loose
04:06<@planetmaker>hello frosch123
04:07<@planetmaker>Freedom never meant you can tell other people what they do for you for free
04:07<frosch123>moin
04:07<andythenorth>I did wonder if he's trying to enslave us
04:07<andythenorth>I think it's a sustainable argument that he is
04:07<@planetmaker>sustainable in what way?
04:08<andythenorth>he's trying to corral our labour for free
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04:08<andythenorth>and control the way in which we make decisions
04:09<andythenorth>it's an act of hegemony - and he tries to support it with a call to a higher principle
04:09<@planetmaker>:-) yup, quite so. Thus the 'freedom argument' is actually quite ill-used and a good red herring
04:09<andythenorth>thereby trying to subjugate us and assert that our subjugation is actually part of the natural order
04:09<@planetmaker>Bad for he it was looked through
04:09<@planetmaker>s/he/him/
04:10<andythenorth>it's a direct analogy with the use of (e.g.) christianity to justify slavery in European colonialism
04:10<andythenorth>not even a metaphor - directly compares
04:10<@planetmaker>:-) Feel free to lay out that analogy within that thread. Might be fun
04:11<andythenorth>going to the park with the child :)
04:11<@planetmaker>and I'd consider that argument still somewhat on-topic in that ridiculous thread ;-)
04:11<@planetmaker>sounds more fruitful
04:11<andythenorth>I am enslaved by my child somewhat :P
04:11<andythenorth> which is approximately equivalent to being enslaved by my own genes
04:12<andythenorth>so I enslaved myself :P
04:12<@planetmaker>that's (hopefully) a freely made decision ;-)
04:12<andythenorth>freely, or made by a genetic urge?
04:12<@planetmaker>(and not like "dear andy, you know we always paid attention, but...) :-P
04:13<andythenorth> more like enslaved by some desire to replicate
04:13<andythenorth>it's possibly a virus
04:13<@planetmaker>is that slavery? ;-)
04:13<andythenorth>or at least parasitic
04:13<@planetmaker>haha
04:13<andythenorth>probably qualifies at least as an enslaving meme
04:13<andythenorth>anyway, I made a boat in FISH
04:13<andythenorth>so that's 1 step closer to next release
04:14<@planetmaker>you enslaved the sprites!
04:16<andythenorth>they didn't complain :P
04:18<andythenorth>next release should have 3-4 new ships in
04:18<andythenorth>I am sulking about the Tow Boats and they are removed
04:18<@planetmaker>oh :-(
04:18<andythenorth>they're not deleted
04:19<andythenorth>they'll return
04:19<@planetmaker>well. Just make them unavailable in order to not break compatibility
04:19<andythenorth>oh yes
04:19<@planetmaker>:-)
04:20<andythenorth>done
04:20*andythenorth bbl
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04:28<@peter1138>hmm, wii... scart cable or component cable?
04:35<__ln__>peter1138: do you like playing old nes games and such?
04:35<@peter1138>erm, i've got a couple on the virtual console thingy
04:36<__ln__>with the component cable there's a chance you won't see the picture in some.
04:37<Eddi|zuHause>i have a scart to component adapter, if that counts ;)
04:39<__ln__>that's because the games use quite unusual modes (like progressive small resolution), and a lot of televisions do not understand those.
04:39<__ln__>some virtual console games have a workaround for that, but not all.
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05:21<@Terkhen>hmm... I was going to answer at the unfreedom thread but now it looks "done" to me
05:22<@Terkhen>just "you can still do it with the current solution, and our solution requires zero extra work and has none of the issues we mentioned and you failed to address"
05:22<@Terkhen>but... whatever
05:22<@Terkhen>:P
05:23*Alberth thankfully missed that part :)
05:24<@Terkhen>:)
05:25<frosch123>that thread turned into something completely different on every page :p
05:27<@Terkhen>:P
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06:51<fjb>Moin.
06:52<@Alberth>moin
06:54<@Alberth>can smoke effects of industries get shifted in time? two chimneys of the OpenGFX industries power plant smoking exactly in sync looks weird
06:58<@Terkhen>the smoke of default industries is handled by OpenTTD code
06:58<@Terkhen>and IIRC that code is not used for smoke effects in NewGRF industries
07:00<@planetmaker>yep
07:01<andythenorth>Alberth: it can be handled in nfo
07:01<andythenorth>smoke is bugged anyway :P
07:01<andythenorth>providing an effect vehicle framework would be an awesome addition
07:01<andythenorth>doesn't have to be massively complex
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07:03<@Terkhen>I swear that the rate at which small changes become huge ones has been increasing lately
07:03<@Terkhen>now they only need a few minutes instead of a few hours of discussion :P
07:03<andythenorth>the small things get discussed n times
07:03<andythenorth>and so turn into a general solution :P
07:03<andythenorth>or at least....the idea of a general solution
07:03<andythenorth>maybe it's a bad pattern
07:03<@Terkhen>we should focus on a general solution for all general solution instead
07:04<andythenorth>the focus on a general solution means the small thing remains unsolved
07:04<andythenorth>:P
07:04<@Terkhen>:D
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07:09<flitz>Eddi: your tip yesterday was worth gold
07:10<flitz>had I started with template creation instead of drawing, I could have saved a lot of unnecessary work :D
07:10<@planetmaker>andythenorth: sometimes: yes. But often a small solution would be worse in the mid- to long-range
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07:11<@planetmaker>and we'd end up with totally unhandable specs
07:11<andythenorth>and right now we have...? :P
07:11*andythenorth is being facetious
07:11<andythenorth>the vehicle specs are fine
07:11<andythenorth>I have spent too much time in industry code which is a world of small solutions
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07:13<@peter1138> hmm
07:13<@peter1138>great
07:13<@peter1138>the holes in the back of the old telly are... just holes
07:13<@peter1138>not holes for screwing into for mounting it :S
07:16<andythenorth>did you find that out before or after attaching it ?
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07:27<@peter1138>heh, before :p
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07:29<@peter1138>heh, before :p
07:32<@peter1138>hmm, maybe some shelving instead :S
07:32<@peter1138>it's only 16kg
07:33<@peter1138>problem is telly stands usually stick out way further than the screen :S
07:34*andythenorth is looking at pictures of singapore
07:34<andythenorth>looks like ttd
07:34<@Alberth>depends on the density of towns :)
07:34<__ln__>andythenorth: don't tell Belugas
07:35<frosch123>damn, can i somehow configure hg to show relative paths to the current working dir, instead of from the repository root
07:37<@Alberth>other than using a terminal with cwd == repository root, I have not found a way so far
07:38<@Alberth>I am also not totally convinced it would be an improvement; bzr had it, and that was confusing too
07:45<andythenorth>hmm
07:45<andythenorth>some FISH ships have mail capacity = passenger capacity
07:45<andythenorth>seems a bit high
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08:48<tony>hi
08:51<tony>i have little bit trouble with openttd version 1.1.1 with LAN mode, i'm use in the server windows XP, and the client W7, and in the server always works fine.. in both machine have firewall down... and when the client connect to the server in 10 or 15 seconds start laggy and lost connection.. when start again client into server again happend same... :( if i revert the server for W7 the XP client happend same too.. how can i fix that?
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08:56<@planetmaker>hm, has it always been that way, that openttd uses the cfg relative to the current dir and not relative to the binary dir? I guess so...
08:59<@Alberth>tony: did you try smaller maps ?
08:59<@Alberth>or less vehicles?
08:59<tony>i use the yorkshire map
09:00<tony>but if it is LAN mode with wire cable.. how can is laggy.. or it is a problem use maps more than 1024x1024 ?
09:00<@Alberth>that means nothing to me :) but you are looking for causes, and doing a few experiments can give you an idea of a cause
09:00<tony>oh. he
09:00<tony>ok i understood...
09:01<tony>less vehicle no...
09:01<tony>because that happend starting the game
09:01<tony>and.. look
09:01<tony>if i play in the internet mode
09:01<@Alberth>I don't expect problems on a LAN, but that would imply your map works too :)
09:01<tony>works fine
09:02<@Alberth>you could also try swapping the machine that is the server
09:02<tony>i did that
09:03<tony>my 1st scenary is XP as server and W7 as client the server works fine when client connect laggy and disconnect.. after 10 seconds 'cause laggy
09:03<tony>and reverting machines W7 server XP client same thing
09:05<@Alberth>sorry, but I have not enough knowledge of the network part to know what is going on
09:06<tony>erm... it is a problem if i want to install normal mode.. and after that copy all directory father c:\openttd\* to my other partition?...
09:06<@Alberth>did you look at CPU load?
09:06<tony>cpu is ok because the server game works fine.. maybe have to compare when client connect.. :|
09:07<@Alberth>being a linux user, I really don't know anything about the windows file system :(
09:08<@Alberth>one other option is that some software is messing with your network connection
09:09<@Alberth>or your router perhaps :p
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09:09<tony>i disable all about that softw like antivirus .. win updates.. jdownloaders
09:09<tony>i try now only simple and clean instalation to look
09:10<@Alberth>did you search the forum for clues what might be wrong?
09:11<tony>yes i do.. i looking and all forums post i found have other troubles .. with LAN all fine..
09:11<tony>oh
09:12<tony>i try openttd dedicate server with -D option and nothing either
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>so... did you actually try with a smaller map?
09:15<@Alberth>tony: LAN is not a good keyword, 'laggy' is what you should look for. a LAN is just a fast internet, that is, it is not special.
09:17<@Alberth>did you try another program to connect between the machines?
09:23<tony>Eddi|zuHause: not yet. i try now..
09:23<tony>Alberth: no programs between machines only the cable simple 192.168.0.0/24 as class C and the game...
09:24<tony>i reinstall the game now.. i try .. i reinstall again the client.. and have to make some test...
09:24<tony>thanxs to all :) sorry by my english i'm latin.
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09:49<Eddi|zuHause>i doubt he meant "latin" as in "from ancient rome"
09:51<__ln__>zomfg, just a couple of days ago i was looking for a native ancient roman to describe latin pronunciation, and now there was one here.
10:13<Rubidium>I would've said there's no nationality ending with "in", but then I'd be wrong ;)
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>in german, words ending in "-in" usually describe a female person ;)
10:16<Rubidium>and for those wondering, it's Montenegrin
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>so in german, a female person from montenegro would be a "montenegrinin" ;)
10:19-!-TheMask96 [~martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:19<Rubidium>not Montenegrinerin?
10:20<Rubidium>or is that plural + in?
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>that's possible, too, but it sounds odd...
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: something's still wrong with the dependency. i changed some includes, and now i get this:
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/363/
10:25<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: includes have to be relative to where you include something
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, but that is not the problem. dep check fails on a file that is deleted, and not included from anywhere anymore
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10:26<@planetmaker>hm, yes...
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it works correctly after a make clean
10:29<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i'm not entirely sure what the rules are on when to attach the -in to the -er and when to replace it
10:30<@planetmaker>16:15 Eddi|zuHause: in german, words ending in "-in" usually describe a female person ;) <-- like "Bein" ? ;-)
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: if you speak it "Be - in", yes ;)
10:32<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: sadly enough make always fails when files are removed; don't think you can do much about that :(
10:33<@planetmaker>oh, ... so it's a one-time removal only? Yes... that's very hard to impossible to solve
10:33<@planetmaker>unless I rescan every dependency every time
10:34<@planetmaker>in which case I don't need the dep check as it only will eat time instead of save anything anywhere
10:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22684 /branches/1.1/ (23 files in 3 dirs):
10:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
10:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Change: [NewGRF] Only allow access (via hotkey and menu) to the bounding box visualisation when NewGRF developer tools are enabled (r22675)
10:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Disallow accessing variable 1B in network games due to desync reasons (r22682)
10:34<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Update: languages
10:38<frosch123>german is all about the one thing. men wear female trousers, woman wear male skirts
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>the world would be truely boring if genders wouldn't mix constantly :p
10:43<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22685 /branches/1.1/ (9 files in 7 dirs): [1.1] -Prepare: 1.1.2-RC1
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10:47<__ln__>Stalin
10:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22686 /tags/1.1.2-RC1/ (. src/os/windows/ottdres.rc.in src/rev.cpp.in): -Release 1.1.2-RC1
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: that hardly counts as a german word
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11:20<Wolf01>hello
11:20<__ln__>hi Wolf01
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11:43<giorgio>hi
11:45<giorgio>...
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11:48<giorgio>how can there be so many people, but no-one active...?
11:51<@planetmaker>yes, hello
11:51<__ln__>we have a relatively high signal-to-noise ratio
11:52<giorgio>fair enough
11:52<@planetmaker>__ln__: rather the noise filter is set to rigerous settings ;-)
11:53<giorgio>if its possible to answer such a question, i would appriciate it... I have not played since version 0.7, should i just dive straight into the new version, or are there things i need to know (big differences etc.)?
11:55<@planetmaker>just try and see?
11:55<frosch123>since 0.7? no, i think there is nothing which is not obvious from the gui
11:55<@planetmaker>:-D
11:55<@planetmaker>frosch123: the totally unused admin port :-(
11:55<giorgio>ok, great
11:56<frosch123>giorgio: though you may set bigger fonts in openttd.cfg if you like
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling some of the template dimensions are not right
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>like a pixel too wide
11:57*planetmaker steals a pixel from Eddi|zuHause
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>would be nice to get a list of all manually adjusted sprites from the sprite adjuster
12:04*giorgio test
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12:06<andythenorth>lo
12:06<giorgio>afternoon
12:10-!-rait [4de95070@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
12:11<rait>evening all. Could someone point me in the right direction on how to create a town names list?
12:12<__ln__>nowadays the answer for everything is 'newgrf'.
12:12<rait>yeah, that much I managed to gather from the wiki
12:12<rait>was hoping to find a tutorial or something for the town names part
12:20<frosch123>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/townnames <- dozen of examples for townnames
12:24<@planetmaker>the completely pre-processed source code usually is found in the compile farm's output: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/
12:25<@planetmaker>then you do not have to use a VCS and build system
12:25<@planetmaker>as most townname newgrfs on that address require one in order to build
12:25<@planetmaker>and yes, also get nml from that last link. get the newest nightly version
12:26<__ln__>what will happen to the old non-grf name generators?
12:26<rait>thanks
12:26<@planetmaker>__ln__: remain there in order to not break savegames
12:26<@planetmaker>maybe we sh/could unexpose them from the GUI though. Questionable though why we should do that
12:27-!-giorgio [~0a0a6567@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
12:28<__ln__>to make the game unusable without an internet connection
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12:30<Eddi|zuHause>the gui could use a few improvements: on loading a town name newgrf, it should automatically choose the first newgrf town name generator, and on unloading the grf, it should automatically switch back to the previous non-grf town name generator
12:32<__ln__>does someone want to answer a stupid technical question?
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>does someone want to ask a metaquestion?
12:33<__ln__>as far as i understand generators cannot be altered because they should always produce the same results on all inputs in order to maintain savegame compatibility...
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but they were already altered. e.g. all TTD savegames with german town names get screwed...
12:34<__ln__>but since towns can be renamed to arbitrary values, there has to be a way to store the name of a town as a string rather than a sort of seed for the generator...
12:35<__ln__>... so why not store them as strings always, and then the generators could be freely altered and it wouldn't mess up old savegames?
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>that was originally not done because there were only very few "slots" for custom names
12:36<__ln__>and now?
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>now it makes no sense to switch, because a) the old system works, and b) the old system needs to stay anyway because of the old savegames
12:37<Eddi|zuHause>there is nothing to gain
12:38<__ln__>i'm partially responsible for breaking savegame compatibility of the finnish generator. not that i've ever heard anyone complain about that.
12:40<__ln__>though i don't think the problem was recognized at the time.
12:42<@planetmaker>Well... then the same scheme might also want to be applied to station names etc. But then the translation of the auto-generated names would be gone...
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12:44<Eddi|zuHause>i never saw much sense in translating the station names on the fly...
12:45<Eddi|zuHause>station placement command then needs to pass a language ID, though
12:47<@planetmaker>hm... multiplayer might be solved by the client sending the station name to the server.
12:47<@planetmaker>It'd get funky names in coop... but that'd be ok, I guess
12:47<@planetmaker>But I see much sense in offering default station naming according to localization
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>you'd get "duplicate" names where you couldn't before
12:48<@planetmaker>hu?
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>i mean: one player can build a "XXX Factory" station, and the other a "XXX Fabrik" station
12:48<@planetmaker>currently that's feasible to have two such stations
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>because they are not "duplicate" in the literal sense
12:49<@planetmaker>one game-named, the other custom-named
12:49<@planetmaker>looking exactly identical
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>yes, even more, because game-named can be duplicate
12:49<@planetmaker>that can be currently. yes
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>that won't be possible anymore
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>which might be a good thing
12:49<@planetmaker>maybe, yes
12:50<@planetmaker>where did *someone* go? He's always hiding :-(
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>the "reset name" and autorename-on-town-name-change features won't work anymore
12:54-!-LordPixaII [~Pixa@79-68-105-148.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:59<Eddi|zuHause># und der Gabelstaplerfahrer mit der Stapelgabel prahlt,
13:00<@planetmaker>yes... but a simple button in the SE "rename towns" would do the trick
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22687 /trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: catalan - 6 changes by arnau
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14:46<Sacro>hang on
14:46<Sacro>wrong channel
14:47*frosch123 wonders whether admiralai is named admiralai because it does not use ships
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14:50*andythenorth is surprised how scaling down a ship almost works - if you use the right photoshop interpolation settings
14:51<andythenorth>3 sizes of ship for free?
14:51<andythenorth>not bloody likely :P
14:51<@planetmaker>http://pastebin.com/jmKGKTvj <-- frosch123, it rulez them all ;-)
14:52<@planetmaker>(scroll down - though I haven't quite followed the ranking rules yet, seems 'interesting')
14:53<@planetmaker>probably from the ranking in the games agains eachother
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14:56<andythenorth>can you get them to play prisoner's dilemma ? :P
14:57<__ln__>andythenorth: then someone would argue the ships are photoshopped
14:57<andythenorth>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation
14:59<frosch123>planetmaker: i thought nocab is considered the most competive one
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15:01<@planetmaker>frosch123: yes... I'm surprised. One year is not a good measure, though
15:03<Zuu>Nice to see that PAXLink got to play a bit and it does seem to do okay. :-)
15:03<Zuu>But indeed one year is quite short to say anything.
15:03<Zuu>PAXLink will not have any use for its seecret wepon - the pair optimizer :-p
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15:09<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not understanding the points
15:12<@planetmaker>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/365/ <-- does that help, Eddi|zuHause?
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>no, absolutely not.
15:13<@planetmaker>Ok :-P
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>i meant the points on the right
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>road profit ( 16275 / 33355)
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>what do these numbers mean?
15:14<@planetmaker>tentative answer: profit / best AI
15:14<@planetmaker>but I don't quite know yet :P
15:15<Eddi|zuHause>oh. i guess it's confusing because it's not sorted by rounds
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>you don't see who competed against who, so you can't easily compare the numbers
15:20<@planetmaker>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/366/
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15:24<Wolf01>'night
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15:38<Emmy>oh motherfucking hell, X-chat
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15:39<MNIM>Seriously. I spent 15 minutes trying to edit it's serverlist to get it to boot up properly.
15:40<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=55915&p=959619#p959619 <-- update with 12 year test with 5 AI
15:40<@planetmaker>^^ Zuu
15:41<MNIM>twelve year of game development, or twelve year of game time? :P
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16:01<LordAro>evenings
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16:02<@planetmaker>hi LordAro
16:04<LordAro>hi planetmaker
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16:10<LordAro>readme viewer is still failing (i.e. i'm stuck again) http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/367/ ,<-- that is my hacked together function, which doesn't work (displays 3 '?' and occasionally some other random characters), also, the commented out lines cause seg faults, and the function/window updates itself each tick, which is bad for memory usage, meaning that
16:10<LordAro>the program eventually crashes with out of memory errors. help? :)
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16:14<+glx>LordAro: '?' are unrecognised/invalid chars
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16:15<Rubidium>1) if FioFOpenFileTar returns NULL you can't trust the value of filesize. Given it's allocated on the stack it can be anything, so OOM could very well come from that
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16:16<Rubidium>2) don't print (debug) a string that is just allocated. It contains garbage and is possibly not properly terminated, so you'd be printing garbage, reading out of bounds and segfaulting
16:17<Rubidium>3) assigning "" to test at line 6 is pointless if you overwrite it again later on
16:18<Rubidium>4) if you don't/can't print anything, just return out of the function
16:18<Rubidium>so line 6 gets a return
16:18<Rubidium>between 10 and 11: if (readme == NULL) return;
16:19<Rubidium>5) don't dereference a file pointer; FILE *readme = FioF....
16:19<LordAro>oh yes, that didn't work either, i think it needed FILE readme = *FioF... (?)
16:20<Rubidium>that is definitely a sign of doing something very wrong
16:20<+glx>that's plain wrong :)
16:20<Rubidium>if you get a pointer and you have to give it to some other function, do not dereference it ever
16:21<LordAro>as you might have guessed, i _really_ don't understand pointers much :L
16:21<+glx>pointers are not really hard
16:23<Rubidium>see it like a letter in an enveloppe. As postal service you don't care about the content, you just get the letter and deliver it to the other person. What you shouldn't do is make a (e.g.) black and white scan of the letter, send that to the other side of the world where they put a printed version into an enveloppe and deliver it.
16:23<Rubidium>because if you send e.g. a color photo, or money the receiving end just doesn't get what it should've gotten
16:25<Rubidium>so just see pointers as enveloppes that you should not open unless you know exactly what is in them.
16:26<LordAro>that makes sense
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16:34<LordAro>so... what about the other problems? :)
16:35<Rubidium>what other problems?
16:37<Rubidium>the garbage being printed is due to not actually reading data or writing something useful to the newly allocated buffer that you print (it contains garbage)
16:37<LordAro>so how do i read the data?
16:37<Rubidium>the crashes and memory issues I've explained
16:37<Rubidium>LordAro: with the fread that you commented out
16:38<Rubidium>minus the &, likewise for the fclose. and it should be FILE *readme = FioF...
16:40<LordAro>i'm sure i tried fread and fclose without the '&', i guess it was to do with FILE readme = FioF... being wrong...
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16:44<LordAro>so what about the text updating every tick? i'm sure it doesn't need to do that..
16:46<@Alberth>loading the file in DrawWidget is let's say sub-optimal
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16:48<Rubidium>though that's rather something for 'later'
16:49<Rubidium>when the reading and drawing works
16:49<LordAro>true
16:49<Rubidium>though... I as well bid you a good night
16:50<LordAro>good night Rubidium, thanks for ypur help :)
16:50<@planetmaker>good night Rubidium
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16:52<@Terkhen>good night Rubidium
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause>i think we really should start thinking about "refining" the movement scheme so we can reduce the length of vehicles in - direction...
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17:44<@Terkhen>good night
17:49<@planetmaker>good night
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18:11<Zuu>planetmaker: Looks like a good grave digging for you ;-) (not at the forums, but as of the old (but good) tournament system
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20:00<a_p3rson>woops
20:00<a_p3rson>#openttd
20:01<a_p3rson>does anyone know if its possible to update OpenTTD for PPC with the new game files?
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20:31<donoteat>I'm trying to send someone a scenario for to start a multiplayer server...
20:32<donoteat>he runs linux, I run windows
20:32<donoteat>for some reason, he says the .grf files for the scenario won't work, because it's looking for forward slashes
20:32<donoteat>while linux uses backslashes
20:32<donoteat>err
20:32<donoteat>other way around
20:32<donoteat>at any rate
20:33<donoteat>is there a way around this problem?
20:34<Nowaker>hmmm... you see, I play on linux
20:34<Nowaker>I sent *.sav to my friends who is playing on Linux
20:34<Nowaker>and it worked
20:36<donoteat>dunno if this has to do with the fact that it's .scn
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20:36<donoteat>we're using the openttdcoop graphics pack; I think that's part of the problem
20:55<donoteat>actually we just didn't have the offending grfs installed
20:55<donoteat>:\
20:55<donoteat>whoops
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---Logclosed Mon Jul 25 00:00:21 2011