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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-07-25

---Logopened Mon Jul 25 00:00:21 2011
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03:16<@planetmaker>moin
03:16<@planetmaker>@logs
03:16<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd
03:16<@Terkhen>good morning
03:22-!-planetmaker changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.1, 1.1.2-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only
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04:08<__ln__>wtf is wrong with the royal mail, they don't support tracking shipments arriving from abroad.
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06:26<__ln__>train 1 - elk 0: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27048766/hirvi.jpg
06:26<@peter1138>....
06:31<MNIM>imagine how the driver must have felt >.<
06:31*MNIM cringes
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06:36<Eddi|zuHause>the engine probably wouldn't pass the elk test...
06:36<MNIM>hahaha
06:36<MNIM>ya sure?
06:36<Eddi|zuHause>fairly :p
06:37<MNIM>doesn't "wiped the elk of the face of the earth" count as passed?
06:38<Eddi|zuHause>i think the goal of the test was to _not_ hit the elk ;)
06:38<MNIM>ooooooooh.
06:43<Eddi|zuHause>"In Schweden hieß der Elchtest ursprünglich Kindertest."
06:43<MNIM>lol
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07:02<Zuu>Not sure exactly what that translates to, but in order to take the driving license here you have to make a test where a fake deer/elk appears on the road.
07:03<Zuu>and you will try to stear away from it on a really icy road.
07:06<MNIM>zuu: "in sweden the 'elktest' was originally called the 'childtest'."
07:06<@planetmaker>he, sounds interesting :-)
07:06<@planetmaker>lol. MNIM check out Zuu's host mask ;-)
07:09<MNIM>i know
07:11<Zuu>The test itself is really hard to fail, as it mostly intend to make people aware of the dangers of icy roads rather than requiring everyone to become a rally driver.
07:12<__ln__>Zuu: is it done on oiled metal in the summertime?
07:12<Zuu>yes
07:12<__ln__>ok, same as here then
07:12<Zuu>although, I did mine in the winter so I had "real" icy conditions
07:13<__ln__>oiled metal is quite different from actual ice... so it's a bit unrealistic
07:14<__ln__>on metal you don't know if the wheels are locked or not when you push the brake.
07:15<Noldo_>unrealistic?
07:15<__ln__>on real ice you feel and hear that immediately.
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07:16<Zuu>__ln__: you mean the feeling when the lock-free brakes start to do its work?
07:17<MNIM>the difference between oild metal and ice is obviously that ice provides grib as long as the touching surfaces don't slip, but as soon as they slip the top layer melts, providing a nice 'weeeee'
07:17<MNIM>*oiled
07:17<__ln__>Zuu: that, or with an older vehicle when the non-lock-free brakes are locked.
07:18<Noldo_>so oiled is like water with bad tires?
07:18<Zuu>I only ever drove a non-lock-free vehicle at the ice test where you got to do the dest with and without the lock-free system enabled.
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07:22<Eddi|zuHause>they don't have such a driving test over here
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>but you can do an additional "driving security training", which probably includes such things
07:22<MNIM>same here
07:23<MNIM>though, i'm a bit surprised, eddi.
07:24<MNIM>you have mandatory winter tires in the cold season, and snow chains around the tires where applicable, but no mandatory elk test?
07:25<@planetmaker>that's how it is, yes
07:25<__ln__>i guess the main point is to learn that when your rear wheels are sliding left, the vehicle can be kept on road by steering _________.
07:25<Eddi|zuHause>mandatory winter tires is a really new thing
07:26<MNIM>ln: i imagine the modern game generation has it far easier.
07:27<MNIM>i mean, with all the racing games
07:30<dihedral>playing quake3 at work - just love it
07:31<dihedral>hello :-)
07:31<MNIM>hahaha
07:31<MNIM>and the boss doesn't object?
07:32<@planetmaker>you should eat more fruit, dihedral :-P
07:32<@planetmaker>hello :-)
07:33<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: at my time, they would have immediately thrown you out when you said "i learned from GTA" in the first driving lesson :p
07:33<MNIM>lol
07:33<MNIM>well
07:33<MNIM>gta *is* pretty horrible at the driving parts
07:34<MNIM>unless it's improved since i last played it
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07:52<dihedral>talking about gta - had a crash yesterday with my lovely mini countryman :-(
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07:52<dihedral>someone managed to come to a halt just a bit sooner than me :-P
07:52<dihedral>ouch!
07:53<dihedral>silly airbags caused most damage
07:54<Eddi|zuHause>your airbags actually went off?
07:55<dihedral>yep
07:55<dihedral>2 in the front, and one of the side airbags
07:55<dihedral>which goes from the front right to the back
07:56<@planetmaker>outch. That's expensive
07:57<@planetmaker>must be quite a bang, then, though
07:58<MNIM>30kmh is the usual airbag deployment speed
07:58<MNIM>but you mean in IRL, dihedral?
07:58<dihedral>where else?
07:58<@planetmaker>hm, 30km/h IS fast
07:59<dihedral>and those airbags are 'armed' as of 15-20 km/h
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>i probably had lower speed in my crash
07:59<MNIM>well, you said 'speaking of gta'
07:59<dihedral>ok - i did not steal the car :-D
08:00<MNIM>lol
08:01*planetmaker didn't yet crash a car
08:01<MNIM>neityher did i - but that has more to do that i never drive one than that i'm a good driver
08:02<@planetmaker>>80% of all men anyway believe that they're above average drivers.
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08:03<dihedral>planetmaker, the problem is not if YOU are above average, but if the one in front of you is too :-D
08:03<dihedral>i blame the guy 2 cars in front of me :-P
08:03<MNIM>well, i /might/ just be an above average driver, if only i had a driver's licence :P
08:03<dihedral>he stopped on the innermost lane just because someone was indicating to join that lane
08:04<dihedral>he actually stopped
08:04<@planetmaker>dihedral, wrong. If you hit a car from the rear, you do definitely something wrong
08:05<MNIM>depends. if that car in front of you stopped far faster than one could accomplish with braking (EG, he hit the handbrake or hit a lmappost)
08:05<MNIM>then there's little to help
08:05<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: he may get partial responsibility, but only if you got the license plate ;)
08:05<dihedral>braking assist ;-)
08:06<dihedral>planetmaker, compare: fully loaded van: 5 people who came back from a holiday in a peugeot 807 to a single person in a mini
08:06<MNIM>dihedral: reaction time.
08:06<@planetmaker>dihedral, yes, and?
08:06<dihedral>my distance was ok(ish) however the guy in front had way better grip
08:07<@planetmaker>it's about the saftey distance which is then missing
08:07<dihedral>and i skid the last 5 m
08:07<dihedral>either how - of course it's my blame, the person to hit from the back is always at blame ^^
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's kinda backwards, though. you only know that the safety distance was too short when you hit something.
08:08<MNIM>planetmaker: does the safety distance include instant decelleration?
08:08<dihedral>+ it's the same with when 'ABS' came out new
08:08<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: that's only 80% true. if the person in front made an obvious driving mistake, he can get partial responsibility
08:08<dihedral>all cars without managed to hit those that were equiped
08:08<dihedral>the person in front of me was fine
08:09<dihedral>the person in front of him was at wrong to do an emergency braking - however we have not details from that guy
08:09<@planetmaker>MNIM, which car does decelerate instantly without you following it being slightly aware of danger emerging?
08:09<dihedral>the guys at the garage asked if i hit a pole and were surprised to see the airbags had deployed
08:09<dihedral>planetmaker, you have cars with sensors? ;-)
08:10<dihedral>i.e. the bmw from my boss will do emergency braking for you if nesesary
08:10<dihedral>and that way faster than i ever could
08:10<@planetmaker>they only break at ~30% of what could be done.
08:11<dihedral>that car does not - i drove it ;-)
08:11<dihedral>even if it only brakes 30 % - it starts reducing your speed faster than i can react
08:12<@planetmaker>reaction time != breaking power applied ;-)
08:12<dihedral>any car with that equipment should be labled from the rear :-D
08:12<dihedral>pm: starting to brake 30ms sooner than i can react is enough
08:13<@planetmaker>yes, that's a gain of 20 ... 30%
08:13<dihedral>which can make a diff of a few m
08:13<@planetmaker>lots of
08:13<dihedral>and that difference is all it takes
08:13<dihedral>the actual damage on the outside is really hardly worth mentioning :-P
08:14<dihedral>there is a dent in the bumper and in the bumpers metal frame - everything else behind is fine
08:14<dihedral>(acroding to the guys working on the car)
08:14<@planetmaker>if there's no structural deformation...
08:14<dihedral>2k damage on the outside, 6k on the inside :-D
08:15<dihedral>(that's my guess)
08:15<MNIM>hmmmh, who makes the fish set again?
08:15<@planetmaker>that's a lot. I hope you have "Vollkasko"?
08:15<dihedral>yep - sure do
08:15<dihedral>and i am insured against my 'eigenbeteiligung' :-D
08:15<MNIM>i'm looking for the latest set because i reinstalled linux, and i'm guessing it's not on the bananamobile
08:16<@planetmaker>for certain definitions of 'latest': there is
08:16<dihedral>MNIM, usually the authors are named somewhere - but ask andythenorth - once he's around
08:16<@planetmaker>check out devzone for nightlies
08:16<MNIM>oh yes. that's the one, thanks
08:17<MNIM>but it doesn't look like he's online atm
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08:17*planetmaker wonders how difficult it is to briefly google the FISH ship set and find the proper links ready at hand
08:17*planetmaker also wonders whether MNIM thinks that andy will give another link ;-)
08:18<MNIM>because i'm laaaaazy
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08:19<MNIM>and thinking is not my strongest property when i'm disturbed five times in my morning sleep five by the phone
08:20<@planetmaker>good. Then there's no need to support lazyness
08:20<MNIM>awwww.
08:20<dihedral>is lazyness not kicked? :-P
08:20*dihedral chuckles
08:21<dihedral>anyway - no animals were hurt or killed in the accident :-P
08:21<@planetmaker>dihedral, not that. But it'll have me re-consider in the future whether my advice is well-spent
08:22<dihedral>:-D
08:22<dihedral>aye
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08:27<MNIM>huh. according to google 6.1 *is* the latest version.
08:29<dihedral>...
08:30<MNIM>i mean 0.9.1
08:31<dihedral>even more ...
08:31<dihedral>trust google to give you the url it found the information on, dont trust it to always of the top-most news
08:32<dihedral>i.e. google bot only comes around at certain intervals
08:34<MNIM>well, i did hop on the dev thread
08:34<MNIM>*release thread
08:34<MNIM>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=45435&start=0 Q.E.D.
08:36<@planetmaker>as I said... the devzone hosts the nightlies
08:36<@planetmaker>bundles.openttdcoop.org...
08:36<@planetmaker>and now I feel dirty
08:37<@planetmaker>having supported whining and lazyness
08:37<@planetmaker>I'd like to say that reading the readme would also be worthwhile. But then you'd have to know that the tar can be un-tared in order to find the readme...
08:37<@planetmaker>which is too much for the average joe
08:38<MNIM>lol
08:38<MNIM>hey, i'm not whining
08:38<MNIM>just being lazy and asking somebody what's the newest version is just that much faster and easier.
08:40<@planetmaker>dully noted
08:42<@Belugas>hello
08:42<@planetmaker>and I need a new screen... I have a 1px wide vertical blue bar across it :S
08:42<@planetmaker>hello Belugas
08:42<MNIM>hmmmh, that's not nice.
08:43<@Belugas>hi planetmaker :D
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08:50<dihedral>Belugas \o/
08:50<MNIM>0-o
08:51<dihedral><planetmaker> and now I feel dirty <- you like that, don't you? :-D
08:52<dihedral>http://failblog.org/2011/07/25/epic-fail-photos-slide-size-fail/ :-D
08:53<Noldo_>marketing
08:55<MNIM>lol
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08:58<@planetmaker>dihedral, life can only sprout where there's dirt ;-)
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08:59<MNIM>hahaha
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09:39<dihedral>:-P
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10:10<Zuu>Hmm feels like I've opened a can of worms by moving some road functions from CluelessPlus to SuperLib :-)
10:10<Zuu>SuperLib now has about 175 functions :-)
10:12<@planetmaker>hehe.
10:12<@planetmaker>btw, Zuu. Results of the AI tournament are very soonish available.
10:12<Zuu>nice
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>split it into SubSuperLibs ;)
10:12<@planetmaker>It only took 16.4 hours :-P
10:13<Zuu>On the other hand I've reduced the main.nut file of CluelessPlus from about 4000 lines to "only" 1500 lines of code.
10:13<Zuu>(not only by this, but also by moving the connection class to a separate file)
10:16<@planetmaker>in the end that sounds at least reasonable
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10:37<dihedral>planetmaker, the .4 being 40 minutes or 24 minutes
10:37<@planetmaker>decimal hours
10:38<@planetmaker>985 minutes, if you like :-)
10:38<dihedral>:-P
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10:40<dihedral>i should have looked into the other channel :-P
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10:51<eQualizer>How do I build tunnels/bridges for both trams and trucks?
10:53<eQualizer>Oh, it worked as I suspected, except I had to hit the right spot on the tile.
10:55<@planetmaker>meh... seems I forgot to configure AdmiralAI into the tournament. Of course I only notice that after it's finished...
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11:05<LordAro>afternoonings
11:06<@Alberth>just in time :)
11:06<LordAro>:?
11:07<@Alberth>in less than an hour it is evenings here
11:08<LordAro>evenings = 18:00?
11:10<@planetmaker>salut LordAro
11:11<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=959740#p959740 <-- LordAro ;-)
11:11<@planetmaker>it did quite well, given the score
11:12<LordAro>planetmaker: you nicked my idea! i did the same quite recently: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=49818
11:12<LordAro>although yes, not a bad score
11:13<@planetmaker>he, yes, I did :-)
11:14<@planetmaker>Though I basically revived truebrain's code from the dawn of noai time
11:15<@planetmaker>ah, you had that, too ;-)
11:16<LordAro>yes, although i had/have no idea where rubidium got it from :)
11:16<@planetmaker>from his useful patch collection ;-)
11:17<LordAro>:)
11:18<@planetmaker>but indeed it expects the AIs in unexpected directories, I found that out, too ;-)
11:18<TrueBrain>he likes to steal my patches and store it as his own :D:D:D
11:18<TrueBrain>*troll*
11:19<@planetmaker>:-P
11:19<@planetmaker>especially those with filenames like tb_xyz.diff ;-)
11:21<TrueBrain>I once tried to make a 'freezer' where I could store silly patches .. but somehow that got lost ... :(
11:22<@planetmaker>'freezer'?
11:22<TrueBrain>yeah, somewhere to store a silly patch for later use
11:22<TrueBrain>to 'freeze' it in
11:23<TrueBrain>maybe that is a typical dutch thing to say, not sure :D
11:24*Alberth has 10-15 patch queues 'in queue' :)
11:24<@planetmaker>that's what I have my diff dir for ;-)
11:26<TrueBrain>but those things get unreadable very fast
11:26<TrueBrain>like .. what was this diff for? :P
11:26<TrueBrain>to what revision does it apply?
11:26<TrueBrain>why did I stop working on it? :P
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11:26<@planetmaker>the revision is stored in the patch?
11:27<@Alberth>usually after removing stuff since 'this is old', you remember you just need that patch. :)
11:27<@planetmaker>as of the 'why stopped working' might be indeed very useful additional info
11:27<TrueBrain>Alberth: yeah :D
11:27<@Alberth>planetmaker: hg does: # Parent e7d1452497d81ee7a465008c8e357c06cc2c6006
11:30<LordAro>anyway: i got readme viewer working!! :D (although i forgot to take a pic) just a couple more problems to solve (non-critical) : http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/371/
11:32<@Alberth>nice, ok if I look at it tomorrow? I have visitors today
11:32<LordAro>np, as long as you don't forget ;)
11:33<@Alberth>I am sure some Lord will remind me in that case ;)
11:33<Rubidium>the string drawing is limited to ~2000 characters. If you really need more, then I think you'd need to think of something fancy. It's related to why the scrollbar doesn't work
11:34<Rubidium>as there's only one item to scroll through
11:34<LordAro>split it into single characters/lines?
11:34<Rubidium>which means there needs to be some "smartness" to split the file into logical bits, or just lines and just draw those
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11:35<Rubidium>though I fear that splitting it per line is safest
11:36<LordAro>you 'fear' ?
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11:39<LordAro>would a good way of separating the char per line be if (text[i] = \n) ... ?
11:41<@Alberth>depends on what you want to do with lines longer than the width of the window
11:42<LordAro>they autowrap at the moment
11:43<@Alberth>that is not what I asked :)
11:43<@Alberth>if you don't autowrap, \n would be the logical splitting point
11:44<+glx>we have FormatStringLinebreaks() too
11:45*Alberth looks in the doxygen docs
11:47<@Alberth>seems to work too, except it messes up the original text. If that is not a problem, that would be another way
11:47*andythenorth awaits new router
11:48<@Alberth>but if you do autowrap, each wrapped line should become a line of text (at least that seems like a good way of doing it at first sight to me).
11:48<Zuu>LordAro: You could look into TutorialAI/menu.tar which splits text strings into lines so that they fit on signs.
11:49<Zuu>The limit will in this case however be based on pixel length and not char length which makes it a bit more complicated.
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11:59<LordAro>hmm, where is FormatStringLineBreaks() ? i can't find it (doxygen)
11:59<@Alberth>Definition at line 677 of file gfx.cpp.
12:00<LordAro>thanks Alberth, et al :)
12:00<@planetmaker>grep -Ri "blah text" src/* is soooo helpful ;-)
12:00<@Alberth>LordAro: files -> globals -> f -> click function
12:01<@Alberth>planetmaker: ack "blah text" :)
12:01<@planetmaker>:-P
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12:17<Rubidium>the fear was more for the case where the readme has lines of 80 length and you can only print 75. Then each line will be shown over two lines, one with 75 chars and one with 5.
12:18<Rubidium>ofcourse you could remove newlines in that case
12:18<Rubidium>but what if there's an enumeration
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12:21<Rubidium>why do I scare people away with my fears? ;)
12:24<@planetmaker>Rubidium: you're a nasty edge-case-mentioning person ;-)
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22688 /trunk/src/lang/ (greek.txt vietnamese.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: greek - 4 changes by fumantsu, kyrm
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: vietnamese - 5 changes by nglekhoi
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14:22<Wolf01>hello
14:26<__ln__>come stai?
14:29<Wolf01>hi __ln__, fine thanks :)
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16:01<MNIM>http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Black%20%26%20Co.%2C%2029th%20Jan%201900.png
16:01<MNIM>hmmmh.
16:02<MNIM>well, the infrastructure is there.
16:02<MNIM>now to actually get a town growing! :D
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>file not found
16:03<MNIM>de heck.
16:03<MNIM>wait a second, is probably caused by that dot in there
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16:03<__ln__>that file not found image is given with http code 200. ain't that so wrong?
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: plenty ;)
16:04<MNIM>http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/1/1/2248324/OTTD/Black%20and%20Co%20-%2029th%20Jan%201900.png
16:04<MNIM>that should work
16:04<__ln__>does anyone know if the content-type of a 404 body can be image/something?
16:05<@planetmaker>yes :-P
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>urgs... grid...
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>town center in such a dead end position might reduce your growth by 2/3
16:06<MNIM>oh.
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>it sees the center tile as road with 3 directions. two of them are dead end, so growth attempt gets cancelled
16:07<@planetmaker>__ln__: I'm quite sure I've seen such
16:08<MNIM>hmmmh, didn't think of it like that
16:14<Rubidium>andythenorth: isn't old station sets not supporting bridges over stations a good thing? Then the users will either drop the old unmaintained stuff, or they'll have to complain to the maintainer of said unmaintained station set. The only caveat is that they keep asking why it doesn't work for station X
16:15<Rubidium>unless we make a quite clear error message, but even those get probably ignored ;)
16:15<andythenorth>meh :)
16:15<andythenorth>I thought there was a lot of concern about legacy support?
16:15<andythenorth>in this case, nothing breaks
16:15<andythenorth>but a lot of work is done to ottd that won't be used in the majority of games
16:16<andythenorth>but if that work is interesting to someone....why not :P
16:16<Rubidium>yup... just like multiplayer and NewGRFs
16:16<andythenorth>actually I'm just confused about legacy support
16:16<andythenorth>but I don't want to restart some boring arguments
16:17<@peter1138>bridges over stations?
16:17<Rubidium>yes, you have a patch for that somewhere in the fuzzle directory
16:17<@peter1138>quite
16:17<@planetmaker>not to be confused with stations over bridges
16:17<@peter1138>glitchy, of course
16:18<andythenorth>when acceleration values were changed, was that because ottd was out of spec?
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>only supporting original stations, afair
16:18<Rubidium>andythenorth: yep
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: lots of grf authors complained that their carefully crafted acceleration values for ttdpatch did not hold in openttd
16:18<Rubidium>it still, slightly is, but not by orders of magnitude
16:19<andythenorth>does TTDP have RV acceleration?
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>i believe so
16:19<andythenorth>ok
16:19<andythenorth>that's one minor gripe I can discard then
16:19<Rubidium>andythenorth: since 2.5 alpha 30 if the specs are correct
16:20<Rubidium>which means not in any stable release of TTDPatch
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>almost no features are in any stable release of TTDPatch
16:20<@planetmaker>well... the only stable is 2.0, eh?
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>"stable" ttdpatch is even older than the dbsetxl :p
16:20<@planetmaker>and earlier, possibly
16:21<@planetmaker>though there's several 2.0.x blah bluh versions
16:21<@planetmaker>which I never understood really how they follow
16:21<andythenorth>when will ottd become the reference implementation for newgrf spec?
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>i vaguely remember playing 1.6 or 1.7
16:22<@planetmaker>andythenorth: it's already. For all new stuff
16:22<andythenorth>so...
16:22<@planetmaker>First come first serve
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>that was before newgrf support
16:22<andythenorth>...any grfs that don't comply with ottd spec are out of spec :P
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: wth are you talking about?
16:24<andythenorth>trying to understand what I'm supposed to comply with :)
16:24<Eddi|zuHause>the newgrf specs
16:24<andythenorth>it seems that I (anyone) can code a grf and have some things broken
16:25<andythenorth>but other things must be preserved because they are used (possibly used) by grfs
16:25<frosch123>planetmaker: 1.8 was a stable release. it was followed by 1.8.1 alpha which finally lead into 1.9. that one was followed by 1.9.1 alpha which resulted in 2.0. that was followed by 2.0.1 alphas resulting in 2.5. which is for some reason followed by 2.6 alphas
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>"resulting in 2.5" is quite an open end :p
16:26<frosch123>[22:20] <Eddi|zuHause> almost no features are in any stable release of TTDPatch <- interestingly almost no features are in the beta from today's pov
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: only correct grfs are guaranteed to be kept compatible
16:26<andythenorth>but how to be correct?
16:26<@planetmaker>pov?
16:26<Hirundo>point of view
16:26<@planetmaker>that didn't make sense to me in that context, Hirundo ;-)
16:27<@planetmaker>but possibly it does
16:27<@planetmaker>:-)
16:27<frosch123>[22:25] <Eddi|zuHause> "resulting in 2.5" is quite an open end :p <- i just added a "{{ottdp|0.6|2.5/2.6|ttdprev=r846, will be in yet unreleaed 2.5 beta 10}}"
16:27<@planetmaker>lol
16:27<frosch123>oh there is a typo
16:28<@planetmaker>andythenorth: it's a matter of judgement. Slippery slope arguments on oiled ground are ahead in such terrain
16:28<andythenorth>hey ho
16:28<@planetmaker>the guide is to cause the minimum amount of breakage usually
16:28<Hirundo>I'm still wondering, how much TTDP support is worth the effort in NML
16:28<andythenorth>it's only pixels :P
16:29<@planetmaker>while keeping sanity alive, or at least on life support.
16:29<frosch123>Hirundo: you will never be able to support 2.5
16:29<@planetmaker>the variable thing you mentioned earlier?
16:29<Hirundo>frosch123: no, but supporting a nightly would be nice
16:30<Hirundo>currently, OpenTTD support is limited to nightlies only in some cases
16:30<Rubidium>Hirundo: about 2 lines of nfo? if (ttdp) warning("heh, this likely does not work at all. Have fun trying.")
16:30<frosch123>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VarAction2Advanced#operator <- planetmaker: seeing 0.6 next to 2.6 is just weird :p
16:31<Hirundo>Currently, I guess most stuf works in TTDP as long as you stay away from advanced sprite layouts
16:31<Rubidium>or properties not supported by ttdp
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16:32<Rubidium>although... if we add new properties and you use them, the NewGRF won't load in 'older' versions of OpenTTD
16:32<Rubidium>unless you add a bit of code to skip those properties if the older version is used
16:33<@planetmaker>or features
16:34<Rubidium>maybe those can be somewhat ignored by OpenTTD. Properties can't be ignored
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>old ttdpatches fail quite badly on action 14s, even if skipped
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16:38<Hirundo>Basically there are three programs to consider; latest OpenTTD stable, latest nightly and latest TTDPatch nightly
16:42<Hirundo>Doing version checks and such for those is on the NML feature request list, but it's closer to the bottom than to the top
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16:50<andythenorth>bed time
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16:57<@Terkhen>good night
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17:25<@planetmaker>good night
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17:39<Wolf01>'night
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18:19<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.wtfnoway.com/
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18:59<MNIM>huh, these horseys have an issue.
18:59<MNIM>there's six horses in front of the carriage, but it shows as 0hp
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19:06<MNIM>it also goes 1 kmh. and it takes aaaaages to go to the depot to be sacked
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the grf is broken
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>switch off realistic acceleration
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes forum censoring really is stupid...
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>i just read a forum where quotes were marked as: "<Name> verf***te am <Date>:"
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19:44<MNIM>meh. i've got steam busses anyway, so i'll just drop the horseys instead
19:44<MNIM>also, what was it mean to say, eddi?
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22:27<jcurran>*TEST*
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---Logclosed Tue Jul 26 00:00:22 2011