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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-07-27

---Logopened Wed Jul 27 00:00:24 2011
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02:22<Pikka>isn't it?
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02:53<strider_ani>Hello o/
02:54<strider_ani>Anyone online?
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03:03<strider_ani>helloooooo?
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03:06<dihedral>good morning
03:06<strider_ani>Morning
03:07<dihedral>bfrog, if you are interested in programming in java - i wr[oi]te joan :-P
03:09<strider_ani>Does anyone want to play a multiplayer game with me? I'm pretty new at this.
03:10<dihedral>sorry - i do not play :-P
03:10<dihedral>but you might be interested in looking at the openttdcoop public game
03:10<strider_ani>I tried that. I'm always too scared to do anything cus I suck
03:11<dihedral>if you do not start you will not improve
03:11<dihedral>suck as much as you like .... that sounds odd but yeah!
03:11<dihedral>and others will help you improve
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03:13<strider_ani>Ok I'll give it another shot I guess
03:13<dihedral>i am sure you sucked pretty badly when you learned how to walk
03:14<dihedral>but hey - you so far always got up :-P
03:14<strider_ani>Thanks
03:17<@planetmaker>strider_ani: you can always start on the stable server
03:17<@planetmaker>which basically is a free-play server
03:17<@planetmaker>but still there's lots of helpful people around there usually
03:17<@planetmaker>moin also :-)
03:19<strider_ani>Which on is that? I've only been able to find the coop one
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04:03<@planetmaker>strider_ani1: #openttdcoop has more than one server ;-)
04:03<@planetmaker>We have a 'stable' one which runs the latest of testing or stable releases. That's basically free and fair play. But a lot of people also have joint companies there. Depends really on the game
04:04<@planetmaker>and we have our 'main' server which runs a nightly version. Which is strictly coop only
04:04<@Alberth>moin planetmaker
04:04<@planetmaker>hello Alberth :-)
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04:06<@planetmaker>Alberth: the common idea iirc behind the citybuilder is to establish it as a goal. Similar to this hack: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=44319&hilit=citybuilder
04:06<@planetmaker>but I guess you know that in principle ;-)
04:06<@Alberth>ah, yet another goal :)
04:09<@Alberth>hmm, stockpiling for a city, not going to work in newgrf I think
04:10<@planetmaker>nope. Nor will the subsequent acceptance of a city work via newgrf
04:10<@planetmaker>like first establish cargo route for type A, then B, then C or similar
04:11<@planetmaker>because without the city wouldn't continue to grow or so.
04:11<@planetmaker>that's - iirc - how the citybuilders work. roughly speaking
04:12<@planetmaker>and from my feeble knowledge of a some-time-ago joining one of such servers
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04:15<@Alberth>cargo routes are already known as 'subsidies', so that would be feasible :)
04:18<@planetmaker>:-)
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04:18<@planetmaker>I guess the goal only cares about delivery to your 'claimed' town. Which you do by... I guess building your HQ there
04:19<@Alberth>good idea
04:19<@Alberth>but the city responding to your actions... could be nice
04:19<@planetmaker>yes, iirc they do that of sorts
04:20<@planetmaker>and it obviously is popular
04:21<@Alberth>anything 'goal' would be popular, probably. Western people seem very lost without a goal
04:22<@planetmaker>well. It gives you a sense of achievement
04:23-!-Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4db0e719.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
04:24<@Alberth>yeah, even in our free time we want to win
04:24-!-fjunike [~fjunike@p4FD22B8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:24<@planetmaker>of course ;-)
04:25<@planetmaker>especially those who didn't win in their non-free time
04:25<fjunike>hi there
04:26<@Alberth>hi
04:26<fjunike>a frind of my created a svegame with an ( in the name now the file is corrupted :)
04:26<fjunike>did ottd check savegame names?
04:27<@Alberth>currently, I am not winning the industry generation battle :p
04:27<@planetmaker>no, it should not care, fjunike
04:27<fjunike>ok so it isn't dau compatible
04:28*planetmaker hands albert 42 new industries and the uniform distribution
04:28<@planetmaker>fjunike: what makes you think the game is not really corruptedß
04:28<@planetmaker>?
04:28<@planetmaker>do you use the same version?
04:28<@planetmaker>patched version maybe?
04:28<@planetmaker>then all bets are off
04:29<fjunike>no he cannot open the savegame again and he could not delete or rename the file
04:29<@planetmaker>your file system manager surely can rename it
04:29<@Alberth>planetmaker: I need less industries, not more :p The backoff algorithm is not good enough
04:29<@planetmaker>less.... hm
04:30<@Alberth>it is still trying too hard
04:30<@planetmaker>less trial runs?
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04:30<@planetmaker>but that's too easy, you'll have tried that
04:30<fjunike>winexplorer told me file not readable
04:30<@Alberth>that just slows it down, it does not stop it from trying
04:31<fjunike>but this is not my problem ;)
04:32<fjunike>i just wont to know is ottd checking the savegamename bevor its stores the file to hdd
04:32<@Alberth>check how?
04:32<@Alberth>or what?
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04:32<fjunike>illigal charakters
04:33<@planetmaker>fjunike: a ( is not an illegal character on most filesystems
04:33<@planetmaker>so that definitely is not the cause
04:33<@planetmaker>if the OS works all fine, OpenTTD cannot screw the filesystem
04:33<@Alberth>fjunike: illegal characters won't get through the OS
04:33<@planetmaker>as it uses the OS interfaces to write
04:34<@planetmaker>an undeletable file is an OS problem which OpenTTD cannot cause on its own
04:34<@planetmaker>it needs strong collaborators there ;-)
04:34<fjunike>a ok the he did somthing he dont told me
04:34<fjunike>ok thanks for that information
04:35<@planetmaker>and... we could possibly only tell what goes wrong if there's a reproducable way to achieve that
04:35<@planetmaker>which then should be reported to our bug tracker
04:35<@Alberth>openttd is multi-platform, so it only uses generic mechanisms for file maniplulations that work everywhere
04:35<fjunike>ahhh it was an :
04:36<fjunike>he want to make an :) into his filename
04:36<@planetmaker>try to delete the file from command prompt might help
04:36<fjunike>same error
04:36<@Alberth>so winexplorer is the buggy party here :)
04:36<fjunike>i know ;)
04:36<@Alberth>fjunike: with " around the name?
04:37<fjunike>now just blah :).sav
04:37<fjunike>the ":" musst be the problem
04:38<fjunike>i will delete the file win an live linux later
04:38<@Alberth>I mean at the command prompt : del "bla:).sav"
04:38<@planetmaker>it's under windows interpreted as the drive letter postfix
04:38<@Alberth>good point, perhaps del "c:\path\bla:).sav" ?
04:38<fjunike>i try to do that in the cmd but it dost work
04:39<fjunike>dosnt
04:39<@Alberth>doesn't :)
04:39<@peter1138>weird that windows lets that filename be created
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04:40<@Alberth>probably windows doesn't even agree with itself about what a legal filename is :)
04:40<@planetmaker>most likely ;-)
04:40<fjunike>k but if i try to rename a file a can not include a :
04:41<@Alberth>not with the program you use currently, at least
04:42<@planetmaker>maybe escaping the : by \ helps, too
04:42<fjunike>i cant rename it
04:42<@Alberth>that's a directory separator :p
04:43<@peter1138>does a chkdsk pick it up?
04:44<@Alberth>or a del *.* in interactive mode?
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04:44<@peter1138>mm
04:44<fjunike>i deletet it with an LiveLinux
04:44<fjunike>works fine
04:45<@planetmaker>Alberth: I guess it's similarily nasty like a filename called "-" (without quotes)
04:45<Noldo_>... is also nice
04:45<@Alberth>planetmaker: nope: rm ./-
04:45<@planetmaker>the unaware users stumble overt these very hard
04:45<@planetmaker>Alberth: yes
04:45<@planetmaker>but... :-)
04:45<@Alberth>planetmaker: a file called * is much more fun :p
04:45<@peter1138>or rm -- -
04:45<@planetmaker>hehe
04:46<@peter1138>not so hard
04:46<@peter1138>$ ls "*"
04:46<@peter1138>ls: cannot access *: No such file or directory
04:47<@planetmaker>still, I keep away from filenames which start with - or contain * ;-)
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04:47<@peter1138>:)
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04:47<@Alberth>or a space :)
04:47<@planetmaker>I don't like space anywhere in filenames either, yes
04:48<@Alberth>hmm, a filename with a TAB would be fun too :p
04:48<@planetmaker>but they do exist, while filenames with beginning with - or a * anywhere don't exist on my disks
04:48<@planetmaker>(tab don't exist on my hdds either) ;-)
04:48<@planetmaker>but you could use \07 or so :-P
04:48<@peter1138>some people feel similarly about source code
04:49<@Alberth>which imho is better than trying to make a TAB character less than 8 characters wide
04:51<@peter1138>:set ts=... ;)
04:52<@Alberth>I know, but give the file to someone else and it breaks
04:52<@peter1138>i don't really care, as long as it's consistent
04:52<@peter1138>ah, but it doesn't break. they just get 8 character tabs
04:53<@Alberth>as specified in the file :p
04:53<@peter1138>i do rather dislike spaces for indents less than 8
04:54<@Alberth>why?
04:54<@peter1138>and then tabs for indents of 8
04:54<@peter1138>that's the only case where it really messes up
04:54<@Alberth>oh, yeah, mixing spaces and TABs is just bad
04:54<dihedral>peter1138> and then tabs for indents of 8 <- that sounds like your tabs are converted to spaces :-P
04:55<dihedral>i prefer indenting with tabs and aligning with spaces :-)
04:56<@planetmaker>^
04:56<@planetmaker>though tab indentation makes alignment with spaces impossible, if indentation might change ;-)
04:57<@peter1138>no it doesn't
04:57<@peter1138>if it does you've mixed them incorrectly
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05:01<@Alberth>there are some things you cannot do with that policy, like indenting a sub struct { } and aligning the comments of the fields after it
05:01<@Alberth>but that does not happen too often
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05:03<dihedral>^^
05:03<dihedral>Alberth, at least not in tcl, java, php :-P
05:03<dihedral>or erlang
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05:09<fjunike>so i try to make the same mistake on my pc
05:09<fjunike>and saved a file with an :
05:10<fjunike>ottd created a file with 0kb
05:10<fjunike>windows donts allow to rename or delete it
05:12<fjunike>the file i created named "test:test.sav" ottd creats a file "test "
05:14<@planetmaker>but blubber:nixalsverdruss is a valid filename here ;-)
05:15<fjunike>not in windows
05:16<fjunike>i never seen a : in a filename
05:16<@planetmaker>ingo@aeolus:~> cat blubber\:nix
05:16<@planetmaker>dks
05:17<fjunike>\ / are not allow to
05:18<@planetmaker>yeah, windows is stupid ;-)
05:18<fjunike>yes but most in use ;)
05:19<@planetmaker>fjunike: I suggest you report your problem to our bog tracker and then maybe one of the windows developer could look at it.
05:19<@planetmaker>Though I tend to believe it's a windows error, not an OpenTTD error
05:19<fjunike>if my c++ would be better i would do it by my own
05:22<__ln__>it's surprising if windows allows an application to create a filename with a :
05:23<fjunike>it is
05:25<__ln__>i've seen such a filename on ntfs, but it was created on linux, and chkdsk considered it an error
05:25<Ammler>why?
05:25<Pikka>who's your bog tracker?
05:26<fjunike>http://bugs.openttd.org/
05:26<Pikka>seems boggy
05:27<@planetmaker>:-)
05:27<@planetmaker>seems I learnt a new word
05:29<Ammler>you learnt us :-P
05:30<@planetmaker>look it up in the dictionary ;-)
05:35<@Alberth>dihedral: I don't know about tcl and php, but java doesn't even have a '///<' style comment, so commenting fields is hopeless anyway
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06:09<@Terkhen>hello
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07:35<dihedral>Alberth, they don't have that style of comment, no
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07:36<dihedral>Osai?
07:37<dihedral>oh
07:37<dihedral>:-(
07:37<@planetmaker>the long-lost child on life-support ;-)
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07:40<dihedral>yes
07:41<dihedral>totally
07:41<dihedral>but i thought he gets messages to his phone
07:41<@planetmaker>I guess he might
07:41<dihedral>Osai, it would be quite nice of you to join IRC and say hello again ;-)
07:43<@planetmaker>I fear he's lost like so many good fellows... like Mucht. and Aali and Celestar and ... so on
07:43<dihedral>:-(
07:43<dihedral>:'(
07:44<dihedral>the (IRC) world is just not the same anymore
07:44<dihedral>s/IRC/OpenTTD/
07:44<@planetmaker>it's always been changing and the earlier times were always better :-P
07:44<dihedral>"früher war die Zukunft auch besser" :-P
07:45<@planetmaker>:-P
07:45<@planetmaker>nevertheless pretty quiet currently
07:45<dihedral>which is a real shame
07:46<@planetmaker>^^
07:46<@planetmaker>there could be so many things added for big benefit...
07:46<dihedral>...
07:47*dihedral hides in shame
07:48<@planetmaker>yacd, roadtypes, newgrf bridges, newgrf towns,... newgrf road stops, ... revamp of the newgame gui, font config. GUI zoom (aka extra zoom levels),....
07:48<@planetmaker>font config
07:48<@planetmaker>multiplayer scenario editor
07:48<@planetmaker>anyway, the SE offers many options for improvement
07:49<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Planetmaker/v2 :-P
07:49<dihedral>aye
07:49<dihedral>i knew you had multipile personalities
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07:50<dihedral>goal/script framework could fit into the admin stuff
07:51<@planetmaker>IMHO yes. Depends on the approach
07:51<@planetmaker>could also fit in an extended AI framework
07:51<@planetmaker>or rather super-classed
07:52<@planetmaker>or however you want to call it ;-)
07:52<@Alberth>dihedral: goals should be nicely useable in SP too
07:53<dihedral>Alberth, who says that the admin thingy needs to be disabled for SP?
07:53<@planetmaker>it needs the network support / stack enabled. Which currently it's not in SP
07:53<dihedral>true
07:53<@Alberth>and Joe Average will not be able to set that up
07:54<dihedral>but, the goal for money is already doable
07:54<dihedral>Alberth, that is quite true
07:55<@Alberth>which reduces the goal idea either to some C++ code, or as part of the NoAI framework.
07:55<@Alberth>the former should declare the goal 'reached', imho. an admin thingie can then restart the server or whatever
07:56<@planetmaker>or a separate goal script API :-P
07:56<dihedral>it could be a layer available to both (to certain extents)
07:57<dihedral>so you can write goal handling in sq and also have the triggers available to the admin network ;-)
07:58<dihedral>scenarios reworked sounds interesting too
07:58<dihedral>sounds like a 'scripted scn' ;-)
07:59<@Alberth>that would be possible
08:00*Alberth ponders whether "static FORCEINLINE int method()" makes sense
08:01<dihedral>though the goal thing appeals most to my sense of that world ;-)
08:03<@Alberth>'that world' ?
08:08<dihedral>^^
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08:08<dihedral>i find gui stuff horrible
08:09<@Alberth>how much do you need ?
08:09<@Alberth>wouldn't it be mostly sq script?
08:09<dihedral>exactly
08:10<dihedral>i enjoy network stuff, the console, and think goal stuff would be quite fitting
08:11<@Alberth>on MP it is quite important, people want to win, even in their free time, apparently
08:11<dihedral>:-D
08:12<@Alberth>but making it exclusively for MP (that is, by running an admin interface) would be a step too far, imho
08:12<dihedral>but only making it available by sq scripts would be not far enough
08:13<@Alberth>...
08:13<@Alberth>(ie what can you not do with a sq script?)
08:19<dihedral>the point would not be what you could 'not' do
08:20<dihedral>the point would be, limiting the goal stuff to sq scripts rather than also allowing goals to be defined by external tools
08:22<@Alberth>that needs a comm channel to the sq script, right?
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08:23<@Alberth>like a 'person' in the chat?
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08:25<dihedral>Alberth, if i correctly understand what you mean, no
08:25<dihedral>the admin network is a binary protocol of which chat is only one small part
08:26<@Alberth>you want to duplicate the scenario API both to sq and to admin?
08:26<@Alberth>how do you decide who is right when both are running?
08:27<@Alberth>how do you coordinate both?
08:27<dihedral>the goal API
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08:27<dihedral>i'd disable the admin network as soon as a sq script is running - an either or
08:27<diego_ob>ola
08:27<diego_ob>alguem fala portugues
08:28<dihedral>nao
08:28<diego_ob>thanks
08:28<dihedral>fala ingles
08:28<diego_ob>so pt br
08:28<dihedral>5 words :-D
08:29<@Alberth>1 to go :)
08:29<diego_ob>pra que serve esse chat? so p flar de openttd mesmo?
08:29<dihedral>oi, tudo bem, boa noite, bom dia, ...
08:29<__ln__>no hablamos portugues
08:29<dihedral>"ich hab schon gegessen, danke" :-P
08:29<diego_ob>eu não falo muito bem espanhol
08:30<__ln__>hier essen oder mitnehmen?
08:30<@Alberth>diego_ob: if you want to talk to us, talk english
08:30<diego_ob>pero creo que el terminal a vivir con ella
08:30<dihedral>eu fala nao espanhol :-P
08:30<dihedral>aye
08:31<diego_ob>hasta chicos y chicas
08:31<dihedral>and that still is not english
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08:32<__ln__>would be so much simpler if everyone spoke finnish on this planet
08:32-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd
08:32<Noldo_>really
08:32<dihedral>but then we'd never have to start ... as all would be "finnish" :-P
08:33<dihedral>Alberth, do you not think it could also make sense to have access to the goal api via the admin network?
08:34<@Alberth>I see no use, but my perception of 'admin' may be way off :)
08:34<@Alberth>ie I consider it more server management than game management
08:35<@Alberth>but in 'could', sure it might be of use.
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>admin port may be used to tell someone they have reached a goal, but it can not influence the game (e.g. enforce town growth)
08:36<@Alberth>my main concern is that it duplicates functionality, and is not compatible with eachother, ie I cannot run my sq script over the admin interface
08:37<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: like 'you can monitor only'
08:38<@planetmaker>probably, considering network issues for SP, an extension / generalization of the NoAI API to additionally accomodate goal or event scripts might be sensible.
08:38<@Alberth>dihedral: do you think some-one will write a binary for the admin interface if he can write sq too?
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>event/scenaro/tutorial scripts are definitely missing
08:39<@Alberth>tutorial is more invasive, as imho you should also be able to handle windows
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that would be a fairly integral part
08:39<@Alberth>which is doable, but then you can abuse that for making an assisting AI
08:40<@Alberth>copy/paste would be trivial :p
08:41<Eddi|zuHause>there would need to be measures for having this script only run server-side
08:43<@planetmaker>well. The NoAI API currently ensures that it's only run server-side
08:43<dihedral>Alberth, the admin network allows bots to connect which already get updates on economy and player stats (if they so wish)
08:43<dihedral>therefore allowing a connected bot to say, x money has been earned by player y - this ends the game, is not too far off
08:44<dihedral>and, no - it cannot really influence the game with 'town growth' it just gets a butt load of info
08:44<@Alberth>except it breaks in SP
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, but if you want to display GUI dialogs, they need some way to transfer this data to the client, and receive an answer
08:44<@Alberth>if instead you have the SQ script decide 'x money has been earned by player y', and then the admin interface decides 'end of game', you are compatible
08:44<@planetmaker>of course
08:44<dihedral>so in theory an API accessible to both could be interesting
08:45<dihedral>Alberth, the info is already available to the admin interface
08:45<Eddi|zuHause>i'm imagining a dialog like the vehicle prototype window, that can display text/graphics and return a yes/no/maybe/next tuesday answer
08:45<@Alberth>(14:45:50) Alberth: except it breaks in SP <-- dihedral
08:45<dihedral>yes
08:46<dihedral>hence, an API available to both
08:46<dihedral>or - sq can extend notifications to admin port
08:46<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes. And that dialogue could be the first which is then exposed to that framework ;-)
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes. but the text and answer need to be built into some Cmd
08:47<dihedral>that way you could ensure only one sq script to be running too
08:47<@planetmaker>Yes... which might be the problem.
08:50<@Alberth>how?
08:50<@Alberth>oh, 64 bit of data :)
08:51<dihedral>Alberth, what do you think of the goal api allowing communication with a bot connected to the admin network?
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: i think there was a way to transfer a string
08:52<dihedral>would an int not suffice?
08:52<@Alberth>dihedral: communication between a bot and what?
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: to transfer the whole text of a dialog window, and specify the return values?
08:54<dihedral>oh - yes :-P
08:54<@Alberth>dihedral: giving out goals reached from the sq to the bot, I see use for that. The other way around, much much much less use, if at all
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08:55<LordAro>moin
08:55<dihedral>not even a staging goals? i.e. define 10 goals which all need to be reached and that in orders based on whatever? :-P
08:55<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, what I envision are dialogues as the new vehicle available one (which take parameter engineID and VehicleType) and which could then be referenced to as the newgrf messages now
08:55<@planetmaker>thus not the whole string needs declaration
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08:55<@Alberth>welcome dear lord aro, please enter our humble virtual house
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08:55<@planetmaker>OpenTTD could then introduce (within its own code) other such dialogues
08:56<LordAro>Alberth: :)
08:56<@Alberth>dihedral: that's about the only use I can see, but I am not convinced writing that in the same sq script wouldn't be easier
08:56<dihedral>Alberth, the idea sounds good :-)
08:56<@planetmaker>Another dialogue could be like "Town needs {string} in order to continue growth"
08:56<@planetmaker>etc pp
08:57<@planetmaker>and the script's task would be to time these conditions
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: for a tutorial-type script there may be use for displaying a sprite, like "press this button: {sprite}"
08:57<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: tutorials would be locally only, imho
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: yes, but that should use the same infrastructure
08:58<dihedral>however, i find it could be quite interesting if a server did not just have a single goal to reach
08:58<dihedral>and if goals were 'randomly' distributed amongst players
08:58<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes, a tutorial has extended requirements
08:59<@planetmaker>and yes, a tutorial should probably be only local. And could be another extension to a noai api - only active in SP
09:02<@Alberth>dihedral: sure, but why should a bot decide that? (I am not against such a comm channel between bot & sq, I just see no use for it, as anyhing you want can be programmed in sq too)
09:03<dihedral>the bot is external - i.e. it can get info from a website, database, irc, <whatever> and base desisions on anything
09:04<dihedral>sq uses openttd cpu time, and has no such external data
09:04<@Alberth>goal monitoring should not take much cpu time :)
09:04<dihedral>the bot has from a programming point of view way more methods for input
09:05<@Alberth>but as said, I am not against it
09:06<@Alberth>I just expect the number of uses to be less than 10 or so :p
09:06<dihedral>sadly that is the case, yes :-P
09:11<LordAro>dbg: [misc] [utf8] unknown string command character 9
09:11<LordAro>dbg: [misc] [utf8] unknown string command character 13
09:11<LordAro>how to solve these errors?
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>those are CR/LF?
09:12<LordAro>maybe, unknown
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>no, 9 is tab, i think
09:13<@Alberth>true
09:13<@Alberth>and 13 is CR
09:14*Alberth ponders about the meaning of "string command"
09:14<LordAro>so, basically, how to strip these characters from a string/char?
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: the special characters like "gender", "plural", "colour" etc., i believe
09:15<@Alberth>move everything after it one position to the left
09:15<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: I was afraid of that :p
09:15<@Alberth>let's use some valid ASCII for encoding non-ASCII things
09:16<@Belugas>helloo
09:17<@Alberth>oolleh
09:18<LordAro>hoeoll
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>oo hell
09:18<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: that bad? :p
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>i might have mild fever or something
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>can't concentrate on anything
09:19<@Alberth>it's the summer, you have to stop working
09:20<@Alberth>LordAro: skip any character c that is !IsPrintable(c) || c != '\n' ?
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>the weather isn't really summer-like either
09:22<@Alberth>LordAro: although you could also expand 9 to spaces.
09:23<LordAro>Alberth: where would i put that in the code?
09:23<@Alberth>during or after file reading
09:23<dihedral>LordAro, what are you up to?
09:23<LordAro>(newgrf) readme viewer :)
09:23<dihedral>ah :-)
09:24<LordAro>it's getting close (?) to completion
09:24<LordAro>well, it prints (some of) the readme anyway :)
09:25<@Alberth>you know that 80% of the result takes 20% of the effort, right? :p
09:25<LordAro>shh! don't dent my good mood :)
09:25<@Alberth>(although you are further than that, I think)
09:26<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01954/mattb24072011_1954726a.gif <-- you may like that
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09:29<Eddi|zuHause>"Two guys are counterfeiting 150€ bills. one guy says to the other: 'hey, go to that ice cream shop over there and buy an ice cream for 1€ with this bill.' the other guy comes back, first guy asks: 'what did you get in return?' second guy says: 'two 70€ bills and a 9€ coin'"
09:29<LordAro>:)
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09:33<LordAro>quak
09:34<frosch123>moin
09:34<dihedral>:-)
09:34<LordAro>Alberth: using IsPrintable(), how would i strip the CRs and the TABs?
09:35<@planetmaker>hi, you nice, early green pont creature :-)
09:36<frosch123>afoon planetmaker
09:37<@Alberth>LordAro: given the output, I'd say CR and TAB are neither IsPrintable(), nor equal to '\n'. Thus if you skip characters as proposed, they will be dropped automagically.
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09:38<@planetmaker>but I guess a frosch is "never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to" ;-)
09:38<LordAro>Alberth: so a for loop on the char? (thats the only way i can think of doing it)
09:39<@Alberth>would be fine, I think
09:39<@Alberth>planetmaker: he varies his arrival time to leave us guessing :p
09:39*Alberth waves hi to frosch123 :)
09:40<LordAro>planetmaker: a frosch comes from Valinor?
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09:43<frosch123>hai albert :)
09:43<frosch123>planetmaker: i did not feel like starting the next task at work
09:43<frosch123>it is easier to start annoying stuff in the morning when i am still somewhat sleepy
09:44<fjb>Moin
09:44<@planetmaker>:-)
09:45<@planetmaker>yeah, it spoils otherwise the whole rest of the day. I fully understand
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09:46<@planetmaker>moin fjb
09:54<LordAro>while i'm still here: "dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer" <-- how long is the destination buffer?
09:56<@planetmaker>wild guess: 1024. But... might be different.
10:07<@Alberth>much shorter
10:08<@Alberth>it is just a warning that your version string is too long to fit in a network packet.
10:09<LordAro>version string?
10:09<LordAro>where did that come from?
10:09<LordAro>:)
10:09<@Alberth>ever noticed the title bar of the openttd window?
10:09<Pikka>it's made of string
10:10<LordAro>i would have thought it would have coped with a hg build + 'M'
10:10<@Alberth>yes, and that is too long :)
10:11<LordAro>odd
10:11<LordAro>i'll remember to qrefresh before building then
10:13<LordAro>still not sure how to use IsPrintable()... how would i get rid of the characters in the char?
10:13<@Alberth>it's not a problem, just a warning that your version string is not sent completely over the network. That does not matter, since you are not going to do any MP gaming with the patched version anyway :)
10:13<@Alberth>what does the file loading routine look like today?
10:14<@Alberth>basically by not copying the 'wrong' characters
---Logclosed Wed Jul 27 10:48:23 2011
---Logopened Wed Jul 27 10:48:35 2011
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10:49<LordAro>back shortly
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10:54<Pikka>good morning Belugas
10:54<Pikka>and Corn Baron
10:55<@Belugas>hello Pikka :) hope life is good for you down under!
10:55<Pikka>splendid :)
10:56<@Belugas>funny though... we say down under. how do you describe "us" ?
10:57<Pikka>we don't
10:57<@planetmaker>Belugas, "down under" of course ;-) http://flourish.org/upsidedownmap/mcarthur-large.jpg
10:57<Pikka>at least not in that manner
10:58<@Belugas>lol at planetmaker :D
10:59<@Belugas>Pikka, but you do have a designation, right?
10:59<Pikka>the northern hemisphere?
11:00*planetmaker still has such map at home; I got it somewhere in macquarie...
11:00<@Belugas>right. makes sens. thanks :)
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11:58<Pikka>wut
11:58<Pikka>I can't remember how to get an aircraft to have a default cargo other than passengers
12:00<Pikka>and can't see where the difference is in my ancient NFO
12:02<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleRefitting <-- Pikka
12:02<@planetmaker>might be helpful :-)
12:04<@planetmaker>so probably in the refit masks
12:04<Pikka>well
12:04<Pikka>the refit masks are the same in the one that works as the one that doesn't work
12:05<Pikka>the one that doesn't work has "all but passengers" as refittable cargos, but still "passengers" as default
12:05<Rubidium>nfo version differs?
12:05<Pikka>they're in the same grf
12:08<Pikka>hmm
12:09<Pikka>the aircraft that doesn't work has an "extended" vehicle ID (4D)
12:09<Pikka>if I change it to (10), it works
12:09<@planetmaker>so it doesn't inherit any properties from a default aircraft
12:09<Pikka>yse
12:10<Pikka>but I can't see any properties that I'm missing setting
12:10<@planetmaker>thus you set some property different from the default...
12:10<@planetmaker>well :-) I can't possibly guess ;-)
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12:11<Pikka>well it can't be that I'm setting it different from the default, because all I'm doing to make it work is changing the vehicle IDs, not changing any properties
12:12<Pikka>also, according to that table at least, a situation where the default cargo for an aircraft is not a fittable cargo should be impossible to engineer in GRF
12:12<Pikka>I'll cook up a test grf and see if the bug is reproducable in a simpler file, and file a bug report if it is so.
12:12<@planetmaker>Pikka, yes. But if one vehicle has ID xy < max_default_aircraftID, it'll have all properties defined
12:13<@planetmaker>while the other one won't.
12:13<Pikka>yes
12:13<Pikka>but there's no "default cargo" property for aircraft
12:13<@planetmaker>thus an unset property could make a difference
12:13<Pikka>and I don't have any unset properties afaics
12:13<@planetmaker>uhm... for the default aircraft there is
12:13<Hirundo>Original aircraft have CT_INVALID as default cargo, so they use the first refittable
12:14<Pikka>planetmaker; okay, there's no default cargo property in the NFO spec for aircraft
12:14<Pikka>if OTTD has one, you've forgotten to tell the rest of us about it :)
12:14<Hirundo>I guess aircraft with ID > max_original are zeroed upon allocation, so they default to passengers (which have ID 0)
12:14<Pikka>sounds plausible Hirundo
12:15<Hirundo>Whether this is a bug in the spec or in OpenTTD I leave open for debate :)
12:15*planetmaker considers it a documentation lapse at most
12:16<@planetmaker>default vehicles will have values set. Each vehicle might have a different one set. So...
12:16<@planetmaker>and new vehicles have everything zeroed
12:16<@planetmaker>(and not only vehicles)
12:16<Pikka>okaty
12:16<Pikka>*okay
12:17<Pikka>so how do I set this property in NFO then?
12:17<Pikka>if it is merely a case of missing documentation...
12:19<Hirundo>I can find no trace of it in the documentation
12:19<Hirundo>s/documentation/openttd source
12:19<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/images/grfwiki/1/12/CargoMagic.dot.png
12:19<Hirundo>and not in the documentation also, so I guess it's not there
12:19<Pikka>yes planetmaker, been there done that
12:19<@planetmaker>:-)
12:19<Pikka>this chart assumes that aircraft have a default cargo of "first refittable"
12:19<Pikka>which for extended IDs, they don't
12:20<Hirundo>Pikka: Are you able to compile ottd on your computer?
12:20<Hirundo>or alternatively, run win32 binaries?
12:21<Pikka>I can run win32 binaries
12:21<@planetmaker>Pikka, and you say, your aircraft don't have that?
12:21<Pikka>apparently not, planetmaker, since with an ID > default they are showing "passengers" (cargo 0) as the default cargo, even though that's not an option in the refit mask
12:22<Pikka>but with an ID < 0 they are showing "coal" (cargo 1), which is an option
12:22<Pikka>*ID <= default, not 0 :P
12:22<Pikka>you know what I meant
12:24<Hirundo>Pikka: I'll try to send you a patched binary, could you test with that?
12:24<Pikka>can do
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12:29<Hirundo>Pikka: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6292352/openttd-aircraft-cargo-patch.zip
12:29<Hirundo><afk for dinner
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12:34<Pikka>it doesn't run very happy.. lots of errors about AI :) but yes, that works, the aircraft now carries coal by default
12:38<@planetmaker>as long as it'll have a pikka running happy ;-)
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12:41<Pikka>(that said, a default other than first available would be nice... if you felt like exposing that property to NFO, planetmaker... ;))
12:42<@planetmaker>I definitely agree with "that would be nice" :-)
12:42<@planetmaker>any suggestion how that should be exposed, though?
12:43<@planetmaker>a new property?
12:44<@planetmaker>though what would one do, if that specified cargo is not available? Again take the "first available"?
12:44<@planetmaker>or would that property be a list? Or...?
12:47<@planetmaker>maybe a list of three CTT entries.
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12:48<frosch123>planetmaker: if any, make it consistent with other vehicles
12:49<frosch123>and yes, looks like a bug in ottd
12:49<@planetmaker>frosch123, but other vehicles have the same issue of only having 'first refitable'. Or do I miss something?
12:50<frosch123>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=812365#p812365
12:50<frosch123>should probably put it on the wiki
12:51<@planetmaker>:-)
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12:53<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/aircraftdefaultcargo.diff <- Hirundo: did you do the same?
12:55<frosch123>planetmaker: btw. the last time we discussed that topic, andy wanted that the cargo defining grf defines the default cargo, or so :p
12:56<@planetmaker>that doesn't make sense
12:56<@planetmaker>because supder-duper-truck A could well want oil as default cargo while super-giant-duper-truck B would want COAL
12:57<@planetmaker>at least as vehicle grf author I'd not understand at all why the industry grf would define default cargos ;-)
12:57<frosch123>well, it started with refittability
12:57*Sevalecan is a naughty boy.
12:57*Sevalecan disabled train depot speed limits ;)
12:58<frosch123>Sevalecan: if you upload a diff to the forums, please name it "better depot vehicle speed"
12:58<frosch123>or something similar. but please include "better" :)
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13:00<Sevalecan>hehe
13:00<frosch123>do you know sirkoz?
13:01<Sevalecan>I do not
13:04<frosch123>he did several things in the past to disable certain "limitations" of the gameplay. and usually he includes some "better" :)
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13:04<LordAro>right, where was i?
13:05<Sevalecan>hah, nice.
13:05<LordAro>oh yes, patch: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/373/ <-- Alberth
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13:09<uni4dfx>Hi guys, can someone guide me through in creating a new town name grf?
13:12<@Alberth>someone is not here atm, but we may be able to
13:12<andythenorth>hola
13:12<andythenorth>aloha
13:12<andythenorth>etc
13:12<@Alberth>hi andy
13:12*andythenorth ponders stupid questions
13:12<@Alberth>LordAro: and it does not crash?
13:13<LordAro>no, although that version freezes because i removed free(readme_char) as i didn't really know where to put it
13:14<@Alberth>uni4dfx: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/townnames
13:15<LordAro>actually, i think it does crash (because of that) but it freezes on writing crash.sav (no idea why)
13:15<@Alberth>readme_char? is not mentioned in that patch
13:16<uni4dfx>Alberth right, so the way i understand this is: i have to create a town list in NML and then somehow compile it into a grf?
13:16<LordAro>or whatever, i can't remember exactly, and i'm too lazy to look :)
13:16<@Alberth>uni4dfx: basically yes :)
13:17<uni4dfx>Alberth is there a sample file? I tried to find one but no luck.
13:17-!-krinn [~krinn@27.69.87.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd
13:17<krinn>hi
13:17<krinn>AITile.GetComplementSlope() is suppose to return what ? Can only get 65535 as answer
13:18<@Alberth>uni4dfx: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/dutchtowns/repository/entry/dtnames.nml seems to be one of the simpler ones
13:19<uni4dfx>Alberth perfect, thanks
13:19<@Alberth>uni4dfx: select a sub-project, click 'repository', and browse for an NML file :)
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13:20<@Alberth>krinn: doxygen comment says: The complement of a slope. This means that all corners that weren't raised, are raised, and visa versa.
13:20<uni4dfx>Alberth On the website?
13:21<@Alberth>uni4dfx: yes, although you can also pull the repository, and browse on your local disk
13:22<@Alberth>krinn: http://noai.openttd.org/docs/trunk/classAITile.html#3b7e14f7f94e97c6c59f2fd7be9aaf1c
13:23<@Alberth>uni4dfx: as for making a grf, download and install NML, and run your nml file through the program.
13:24<uni4dfx>Alberth alright sounds straight-forward enough
13:24<@Alberth>uni4dfx: if you publish the grf, please use a open source license, and also publish the source
13:25<@Alberth>uni4dfx: if you want a repo at the openttdcoop.org site (just like the many other town name grfs), your license must be GPL2
13:25<krinn>thx alberth, i know the doc, just the implementation keep failing
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13:25<krinn>as the complement return is always 65535
13:25<Wolf01>hello
13:25<Pikka>there are no stupid questions, andy, only stupid people who ask questions. :)
13:25<uni4dfx>Alberth yeah no problem, i wasn't planning on keeping it to myself :)
13:26<@Alberth>krinn: and that is the complement of the tile you query?
13:26<@Alberth>hello Wolf01
13:26<krinn>depend, tried on some tiles, not flat one of course :p
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13:26<@Alberth>krinn: flat ones should also work :p
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13:27<krinn>says you have tile with S up others down, i would just expect answer like NWE from it
13:27<@planetmaker>Alberth: uni4dfx: basically any open source license works on the DevZone
13:27<@planetmaker>We just don't accept closed-source projects
13:28<@planetmaker>http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2011/07/16/copyright-and-licenses-permission-to-what-actually/ <-- I'd not have a problem with any of the licenses I discussed there ;-)
13:28<@planetmaker>and there are more, if desired. Though yes, I'd for the sake of simplicity advocate CC-BY or GPL v2+
13:29<@Alberth>krinn: if ((slope & ~SLOPE_ELEVATED) != 0) return SLOPE_INVALID; <-- looks like you get SLOPE_INVALID
13:29<frosch123>yeah, the slope may not be steep
13:29<krinn>yep 65535 looks a good value to return SLOPE_INVALID
13:30<krinn>what does ~ mean ?
13:30<@Alberth>it is, in fact, its value is 0xFFFF :)
13:30<krinn>:)
13:30<uni4dfx>OK, does 5000 town names sound excessive?
13:30<@Alberth>~ all bits inverted
13:30<@planetmaker>uni4dfx: not at all
13:30<@planetmaker>2000 might be needed by one single game
13:31<uni4dfx>it's literally every town name in the country lol
13:31<@Alberth>uni4dfx: you need about 3500 max
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13:31<@planetmaker>:-) Ok, even more
13:31<@planetmaker>uni4dfx: one can, of course, also or additionally or alternatively supply somewhat random town names in the style of your language
13:32<@planetmaker>I consider that quite fun :-)
13:32<krinn>basically this is just slope & 0 so ? i suppose SLOPE_ELEVATED is 1111 (as NWSE raised)
13:32<uni4dfx>planetmaker yeah, but it might be better to do that as a separate project
13:32<@planetmaker>those town names are then composed of name parts which you supply and you define the rules by which they're composed
13:32<@planetmaker>uni4dfx: not separate, if it's the same language. But possibly in a later version
13:33<@planetmaker>one single town name newgrf can supply several alternative town name sets
13:33<uni4dfx>ok, but i'll start with the actual names first
13:33<@planetmaker>i.e. the GermanTownNames supply 6 townname sets :-)
13:33<@Alberth>krinn: slope & ~SLOPE_ELEVATED becomes non-zero if you have a steep slope
13:33<uni4dfx>so what does the number in this statement represent: text("name1", 1)
13:33<@planetmaker>it's a probability
13:33<@Alberth>planetmaker: I checked the german town names, but it was too complicated to link here :)
13:34<krinn>doh, so all my tests were done with steep slope maybe
13:34<@planetmaker>relative to the other numbers used along other town names
13:34<@planetmaker>Alberth: yes, I'd not have them linked either :-)
13:34<@planetmaker>I'd have linked DutchTowns, too :-)
13:34<@Alberth>uni4dfx: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml/raw-file/tip/docs/nml-language.html#block-town_names
13:34<uni4dfx>Alberth Yeah i'm looking at that
13:35<@Alberth>good :)
13:36*Alberth ponders a better name than 'text'
13:36<@planetmaker>item?
13:36<@planetmaker>entry?
13:37<@Alberth>it's only a part
13:37<@Alberth>I was thinking 'name', but it does not sound right either
13:37<krinn>SLOPE_ELEVATED - slope should gave me expected result no, even with steep slope ?
13:38<@Alberth>unlikely, subtracting bitmasks usually does not work as expected
13:38<@planetmaker>well... actually 'text' is not that wrong. Because it clearly indicates it's a text item
13:38<@planetmaker>opposed to a name block
13:39<krinn>well, not the result itself, but its nibble is trustable
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13:45<LordAro>Alberth? did you take a look at the patch?
13:45<@Alberth>I was just about to do that
13:46<LordAro>:)
13:46<LordAro>don't let me stop you
13:51<krinn>ok : i have add a check on tile with isHalftileSlope + IsSteepSlope -> for slope 2 i get false false 65535
13:52<krinn>GetComplementSlope looks bork (but i have openttd 1.0.4 here)
13:52<@planetmaker>uhm... why do you use such outdated version?
13:53<uni4dfx>what should i put in as grfid?
13:53<krinn>i'm at work, that computer must stay stable as long as possible, so execpt security i don't update
13:54<@planetmaker>uni4dfx: two or three letters for your initials. Last (4th) letter: index into your overall newgrfs already produced
13:54<krinn>but this was doing same with 1.1.1 at home
13:54<@planetmaker>which would be 0
13:54<@planetmaker>overall it needs to be of course 4 letters exactly
13:54<krinn>just now i'm sure my tests weren't failing because of steep or halftile slope tests
13:55<krinn>lol wait i think i found the problem :)
14:02<Hirundo>frosch123: Yes, my patch was the same, except for a slightly different wording of the comment
14:06<krinn>nope doesn't work
14:06<krinn>what i don't get is if you invert bits for SLOPE_ELEVATED, you will then just get 0
14:06<Rubidium>what tile number are you trying?
14:07<krinn>you can invert bit to mask "slope", but not SLOPE_ELEVATED as this one should be NWSE (so 1111)
14:07<krinn>a random at start screen, must be center tile
14:07<krinn>SLOPE_ELEVATED should be 1111 inverting that = 0000 = 0
14:07<krinn>and 0 & 0 = 0 + 1 & 0 = 0 -> always returning 0 so
14:08<Rubidium>center as in GetMapSize() / 2 ?
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14:09<krinn>30594 -> 33402
14:09<krinn>from to (decimal) 30594 -> 33402
14:11<Rubidium>the regression test at least shows CompletementSlope does not always return -1 / 65535
14:11<Rubidium>@base 10 16 30594
14:11<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 7782
14:11<Rubidium>@base 10 16 33402
14:11<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 827A
14:11<Rubidium>so not obviously a map edge :(
14:12<krinn>nope told you i pickup main start screen (because i don't want to run everywhere on map to see my tests)
14:13<krinn>so what ? slopeX & 0 = 0 no way to get complement slope from that
14:14<Rubidium>the slope complement code looks okay based on the regression test, so the question is whether something might be wrong in your code
14:15<Wolf01>sloped-something or step slopes?
14:15<Rubidium>so can you show us some actual bits of code that go wrong?
14:15<krinn>local slope=AITile.GetSlope(tile);
14:15<krinn>local compSlope=AITile.GetComplementSlope(slope);
14:17<krinn>hard to make an error, i have just add
14:17<Rubidium>and how's tile set?
14:17<krinn>it's a tile
14:17<krinn>grab from an AITileList
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14:18<krinn>wait i look if i can package it to send you my tests
14:18<Rubidium>what kind of architecture does your computer run?
14:18<andythenorth>tum te tum te tum
14:18<andythenorth>what to do next
14:18<krinn>gentoo
14:18<krinn>32bits
14:20<uni4dfx>Alberth ok how's this http://pastebin.com/LZtKu2tR
14:20<Rubidium>neither is its architecture; powerpc, arm and x86 are
14:20<krinn>x86
14:21<krinn>little endian :)
14:21<Rubidium>so no endianness blaming :(
14:22<Rubidium>did you compile OpenTTD yourself? I guess you did since it's Gentoo. If so, try "make regression"
14:23<krinn>going to grab 1.1.1 to see (but it was also failing @ home with it)
14:24<krinn>is ELEVATED_SLOPE = 254 ?
14:25<frosch123>it's 15
14:25<krinn>yep sorry 15
14:25<krinn>so inverting bit for 15 = 0
14:25<krinn>and anything & 0 = 0
14:25<krinn>better check the test alberth shown, it will only gave 0
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14:26<frosch123>no, inverting bits of 15 is 0xfffffff0
14:26<krinn>meanwhile i'll grab 1.1.1
14:26<krinn>ah
14:26<krinn>ok
14:35<uni4dfx>planetmaker could you look at the file and tell me how many stupid mistakes i've made?
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14:36*Rubidium wonders whether planetmaker actually reads that
14:36-!-^Spike^ [~Spike@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:36<Rubidium>or said differently: he might pretty well ping timeout any time soon
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14:37<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium is clairvoyant!! :p
14:38<@Alberth>uni4dfx: looks ok at first sight, what does nmlc think of it?
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>the coop server has quite a bad uptime, it seems :p
14:38<frosch123>#coop free zone?
14:38<uni4dfx>Alberth haven't installed it yet
14:40<krinn>it work with 1.1.2rc1
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14:42<Rubidium>uni4dfx: besides the grfid not being 4 long and english.lng missing it seems to at least compile okay
14:46<krinn>erf found it, was using old version of script, and newer one i'm working on when using r1.1.2
14:46<krinn>work on both now
14:47<@Alberth>I would expect that, tiles and slopes have not changed in ages :)
14:54<uni4dfx>Rubidium what's supposed to be in english.lng ?
14:55<krinn>Alberth, yep, was working on copy, installing rc1.1.2 made me lnk to good one
14:58<@Alberth>uni4dfx: something like http://www.fpaste.org/4dLm/
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15:00<andythenorth>que tal?
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15:02<MorgyN>Hiya, I'm getting regular short pauses (temporary freezes) in openttd 1.1.1 under windows 7 x64, is this a known issue?
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15:02<Rubidium>lots of AIs?
15:02<Rubidium>or rather, are there AIs running?
15:02<MorgyN>happens with 32bit ottd and 64bit, and under compatibility mode (xp sp3)
15:02<MorgyN>No, happens even on the menu
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15:03<MorgyN>(was attempting to connect to a multiplayer server, other people have no issue)
15:03<MorgyN>hardware is a ati 6870, intel i7-940, 6gig ram. only apps running IE and Steam.
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15:03<Rubidium>you mean you were in the server list window?
15:04<MorgyN>not even in the server list window. with the demo map playing
15:04<MorgyN>happens seemingly everywhere
15:04<Rubidium>was the music running?
15:04<MorgyN>yes
15:04<MorgyN>it never paused
15:05<Rubidium>hmm, so it didn't happen when music changed :(
15:05<Rubidium>(... didn't only happen ...)
15:06<MorgyN>no it appears to work for 10-30 seconds, then pauses for 5-20 seconds and repeats that process
15:06<MorgyN>is there cli options to disable sound?
15:07<Rubidium>-s null -m null (both sound and music)
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15:07<MorgyN>ok will try that 2seconds
15:08<frosch123>also try -b 32bpp-optimized
15:09<Rubidium>I have no clue what would cause the behaviour you describe. Problem is that as far as I know it works for many many others, which means it has to do with something specific to your computer. The real question to that is: "what?", but that's sadly enough only something you can figure out. Maybe it's the antivirus interfering or something?
15:09<MorgyN>No change with disabling sound, will try your suggestion frosch123
15:09<MorgyN>I have no antivirus =(
15:09<LordAro>thats an _extremely_ bad idea...
15:10<krinn>try in safe mode
15:10<MorgyN>I've run without antivirus since msdos, i'm fine =)
15:11<@planetmaker>that's what she says ;-)
15:11<MorgyN>Still freezing with -b 32bpp-optimized
15:11<LordAro>since you have no antivirus, the problem is as likely caused by a virus
15:11<LordAro>no other applications are showing similar symptoms?
15:11<MorgyN>None
15:11<MorgyN>And no, trust me when I say it's not a virus.
15:12<MorgyN>I've had two virus infections in 30 years.
15:12<Wolf01>how can you tell that if you can't check it?
15:12<krinn>try safemode then, it will discard unwanted service & app
15:12<MorgyN>I'll give safemode a try.
15:13<@planetmaker>any desktop manager / changing backgrounds?
15:13<davis>what happens to be the problem? , sorry for cross-chatting
15:13<Rubidium>unexplained temporary freezes of OpenTTD
15:13<MorgyN>planetmaker: no, this is a raw gaming system, only things installed are games.
15:13<MorgyN>(hence mibbit)
15:14<MorgyN>brb with conclusion from safemode.
15:14<@planetmaker>MorgyN: yes. But like keyboard "drivers" etc...
15:14<davis>goodluck
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15:27<MorgyN>It ran without freezing under safemode, but was unable to test networking... although i could have tried safemode with networking... hindsight
15:28<davis>restart! :D
15:28<MorgyN>downloading updated graphics drivers atm, but as far as I know openttd doesn't use any 3d features of the cards?
15:28<Rubidium>so it's, likely video, driver related
15:28<MorgyN>so i'd be suprised if thier 2d is odd
15:29<MorgyN>but trying it to eliminate it
15:29<Rubidium>given 2d isn't used that much it isn't tested much either
15:29<Rubidium>they are even dumping stuff that worked perfectly before
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15:31<MorgyN>But surely all the devs are openttd players and use it as part of thier test suite =)
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>"all the devs" likely have no win7
15:32<Hirundo>I'm not sure that "all the devs" actually play much either
15:33<MorgyN>For the windows drivers?
15:33<davis>pretty certain that "most of the devs" are human
15:33<Hirundo>they tend to pass turing tests :)
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15:34<Eddi|zuHause>have you actually met anyone who did an actual turing test? :)
15:35<MorgyN>I wouldn't believe that of most of the devs I work with...
15:35<krinn>check also your video health, under 2D game still in wndows 3D is in use and card is working higher than just in 2D
15:36<krinn>look out at your gpu health for temp
15:36<MorgyN>video previous is fine. I play tf2 competitively
15:36<MorgyN>passes furmark fine
15:36<MorgyN>even on "extreme"
15:37<MorgyN>Still freezes, latest drivers.
15:37<krinn>so must be some dirty service
15:37<MorgyN>why would it affect openttd alone
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>openttd is not like the other games.
15:38<@planetmaker>openttd actually uses stone-age graphics approach ;-)
15:38<LordAro>openttd is special :)
15:38<@planetmaker>nothing 3D is needed nor used
15:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22690 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] Aircrafts defined with IDs above the default aircrafts always defaulted to passenger cargo.
15:39<@planetmaker>all the selling points of graphics card fail to be applicable to openttd's needs
15:39<MorgyN>Right, so I'm asking. What service could affect it?
15:39<davis>you guys kinda sound like parents on their atempt to teach their kids to play nice with the special kid
15:39<davis>:3
15:39<MorgyN>or rather
15:40<MorgyN>what could a service impact that would cause openttd to stop responding for 15-20 seconds
15:40<MorgyN>does it repeatedly poll the filesystem and blocks on it?
15:40<MorgyN>network?
15:41<krinn>windows decorations and stuff like that, any background service playing with network imo
15:44<@planetmaker>MorgyN: on startup OpenTTD can read quite a lot. Depending on your size of the applicable data folders for OpenTTD
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15:44<MorgyN>This is also during, startup seems to be fine.. I'm connected to a game
15:44<MorgyN>still freezing, oh there we go.. disconnected (due to freeze)
15:46<Rubidium>you can't say that video is fine when it works with tf2. It's like saying a car runs fine at full throttle, only it stalls repeatedly when (almost) idling
15:46<@Alberth>hmm, some CPU throttling?
15:47<krinn>or multitask failure, did you run it windowed with (dunno name) the thing to check running programs
15:47<krinn>and when it block look who eat cpu
15:47<@Alberth>Rubidium: if you only so the 1/4 mile, that's no problem :p
15:47<@Alberth>*do
15:48<krinn>cars comparaison would better fit as running full speed, but not proof running backward is fine :p
15:50<@Alberth>LordAro: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/374/ I added remarks prefixed with ">>>" characters. I removed parts of the patch I had nothing useful to say about
15:51<MorgyN>right ok, no high cpu from any other process
15:51<MorgyN>cpu 98% idle even when running
15:52<MorgyN>ok, anyone got a 2d performance test tool =)
15:53<@Alberth>other than openttd :p
15:53<MorgyN>indeed.
15:53<@Alberth>but single player should then also fail
15:54<MorgyN>it does
15:54<MorgyN>the menu fails
15:54<LordAro>Alberth: thanks! btw, with doxygen, what do things like \c and \a mean?
15:54<MorgyN>I don't even need to be in a game =)
15:54<MorgyN>(also doom II is fine =) )
15:54<@Alberth>ah, it's not only the network, I missed that. Sorry
15:54<MorgyN>ooh i know, i used to play 1.0.5 fine wonder if that still works
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15:56<@Alberth>LordAro: http://www.stack.nl/~dimitri/doxygen/commands.html
15:57<LordAro>thanks
15:58<MorgyN>ok guys. 1.0.5 works fine
15:58<LordAro>also btw, the GRF-> NEWGRF changes, plus the doxygen stuff (on unmodified functions) are separate patches, i just put them together to it would compile properly
15:59<@Alberth>LordAro: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=960200#p960200 :)
15:59<@Alberth>that's good, it just is not clear from the diff where it comes from
16:01<LordAro>true, but it's easier than posting the patches directory
16:01<MorgyN>1.1.0 is fine
16:01<LordAro>shall i make comments to your comments here?
16:03<MorgyN>So can anyone suggest a reason why 1.1.0 works fine on my system but 1.1.1 does not?
16:04<Rubidium>`svn diff svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.1.0 svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.1.1` ?
16:04<LordAro>heh, i get smileys for that :)
16:06<@Alberth>LordAro: tomorrow please
16:06<LordAro>very well :) i shall think of answers :)
16:06<@Alberth>ok :)
16:06<@Alberth>good night
16:06<LordAro>good night Alberth
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16:09<Rubidium>MorgyN: the only thing I can say is that it might be a negative side effect of a bugfix, but there isn't anything obvious that comes to mind
16:09<Rubidium>MorgyN: so I hope you're able to compile and are willing to figure out which revision caused it
16:15<MorgyN>attaching tracing tools to it atm, I havent compiled anything for windows for at least 4 years. I've noticed a few other people mention it in the forums but I guess that was unresolved.
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>like i said previously, none of the devs have a suitible test environment to reproduce the issue
16:20<Rubidium>yeah, the virtualbox videodriver works fine
16:21<Rubidium>and my network is too slow to try a xenserver running remotely
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16:28<MorgyN>Right, while it's freezing it's constantly polling HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\NetBT\Linkage in the registry
16:28<MorgyN>where does openttd save it's favourited servers?
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16:29<Rubidium>somewhere in openttd.cfg
16:30<MorgyN>ok, but is that in your profile on windows? as i'm running different versions in different directories (from zips) but they keep the favourited servers
16:30<Rubidium>it's in my documents
16:30<MorgyN>aha thanks
16:30<Rubidium>but it's read once when loading the game and written once when closing
16:31<MorgyN>lets try zapping that and see if it's a dodgy setting
16:31<Rubidium>is OpenTTD running from a network share?
16:33<MorgyN>No, local disk
16:33<MorgyN>and bam
16:33<MorgyN>it's fine
16:33<MorgyN>going to restore the old config and try and find the troublesome entry
16:35<MorgyN>restore the config, problem back...
16:36<fjunike>OTTD IS runnig fro a network share :)
16:36<fjunike>from
16:37<MorgyN>is there a comment style to the config?
16:37<MorgyN>ie a # or // to comment out a line, save me creating backups?
16:39<MorgyN>Right, as suspected found it.
16:40<MorgyN>Unresolvable entry in the favourited servers
16:40<MorgyN>remove the entry, everything works perfectly.
16:40<Rubidium># or ;
16:41<Rubidium>MorgyN: but it ought not to be doing anything to the server list until you open the server window
16:41<MorgyN>I can only offer what I observed. It was doing it during the menu without clicking multiplayer
16:41<Rubidium>very odd
16:42<MorgyN>(and constantly caused pauses while playing)
16:42<MorgyN>removed that one entry from openttd.cfg and it's gone
16:42<Rubidium>what did the entry look like?
16:42<__ln__>http://my.opera.com/portalnews/blog/2011/07/26/a-life-like-flying-robotic-bird
16:43<MorgyN>http://pastebin.com/aMsEY9Fb
16:44*Rubidium remains flabbergasted; all name resolution is, as far as I can see done in a thread as to not to disturb/influence/pause the application when resolution of the dns to ip takes (lots) of time
16:45<Rubidium>ah well, just file a bug report with the information
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16:48<fjunike>Flying Robotic Bird powerd by festo *like* :)
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16:56<MorgyN>Ok that registration confirmation email is taking a while...
16:56<+glx>check the spambox
16:56<MorgyN>Have done
16:56<fjunike>im waiting for that email since 2 days :(
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17:00<MorgyN>OK, could someone with a working registration open a bug for me.. if you tell me the feilds i'll pastebin the entries for you to c&p
17:00<MorgyN>*fields.
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17:08<Wolf01>'night all
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17:09<krinn>is there a rules write somewhere about effect on neighbors tile when raising/lowering a tile?
17:10<@Terkhen>good night
17:10<LordAro>MorgyN: i'm bored, i'll do it
17:10<LordAro>good night Terkhen
17:10<MorgyN>LordAro: Thanks. What's the fields? (paste bin em if you can)
17:12<LordAro>http://pastebin.com/ghpP3TTj
17:17<MorgyN>LordAro: http://pastebin.com/MtVmRjpD
17:18<MorgyN>hopefully sufficient
17:19<MorgyN>LordAro: could you also post in this thread for these guys to check thier favourited servers? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=55129
17:21<LordAro>done, and done :)
17:24<MorgyN>Thank you =)
17:25<@planetmaker>good night
17:25<MorgyN>now i'm off to go play.. have fun <3
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17:31<krinn>good night all
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17:34<LordAro>night all
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18:11<frosch123>night
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18:29<Eddi|zuHause>man, the austrian railways before WWI are an even worse mixture than the german railways
18:38<MNIM>that's odd
18:39<MNIM>considering germany before WW1 wasn't a single country, while austria was.
18:39<__ln__>must be the kangaroos
18:39<MNIM>wrong country, silly.
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19:09<uni4dfx>what does this mean
19:09<uni4dfx>Language file \"%s\" does not contain a ##grflangid pragma
19:09<uni4dfx>i'm getting this error when i try to compile the grf
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>it should probably mention a filename
19:12<uni4dfx>i've just put ##grflangid 00 at the start and it works now
19:12<uni4dfx>weird thing
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>find a list of language IDs here: (GRFv7 section) http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action4#language_IDs
19:14<uni4dfx>ok, american is fine
19:15<uni4dfx>so where do i submit my new town names grf?
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19:27<Eddi|zuHause>bananas.openttd.org
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>but you might also want to get some feedback from tt-forums (graphics development section)
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22:21<Eddi|zuHause><MNIM> considering germany before WW1 wasn't a single country, while austria was. <- problem is that the process was reversed, in austria, railways started out as state railways and then were privatised, while in germany railways started out as private and were then taken over by the states
22:22<Eddi|zuHause>also, austria was not really "one country" either
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 28 00:00:45 2011