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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-08-05

---Logopened Fri Aug 05 00:00:11 2011
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00:49<andythenorth>morning
00:52<SmatZ>morning
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02:03<@planetmaker>moin
02:04<@planetmaker>phatmatt: what account would I be looking for?
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03:07<phatmatt>planetmaker: username should be 'icosikai'; hopefully it has one of my email addresses attached to it
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03:16<@planetmaker> I'm afraid I don't see such user
03:17<phatmatt>hmm
03:17<phatmatt>http://bugs.openttd.org/user/828
03:18<@planetmaker>oh, capital "I". You're sure you spellt your login correctly with the correct capitalization?
03:19<@planetmaker>when you tried to login?
03:22<phatmatt>i'll try again, but pretty sure I did
03:23<@planetmaker>hm... maybe it's indeed stored somewhere entirely different when it's from the pre-merge.
03:24<@planetmaker>I'm afraid I don't find it with captal I either
03:24<phatmatt>if it's a hassle don't worry, i'll just make a new one
03:24<phatmatt>ok, np
03:24<@planetmaker>ok :-)
03:25<phatmatt>thanks for looking into it, at least now i get a fancy pants unified login account
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03:32<@planetmaker>hehe :-)
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04:03<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:25<dihedral>morning Terkhen
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04:51<dihedral>scientific linux \o/
04:52<dihedral>at least the stick to their release dates (+/- a week)
04:52<dihedral>other than centos :-P
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05:10<__ln__>wtf http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2022322/The-massive-European-network-Stone-Age-tunnels-weaves-Scotland-Turkey.html
05:10<__ln__>that doesn't make any sense
05:11<andythenorth>the domain name tells me that much
05:12<andythenorth>your comment is a tautology, given the domain name
05:12<andythenorth>it would hold for any story on that domain
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07:13<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: For your mb problem: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/alternate_label2.patch
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>i'll take a look at that later
07:16<duckblaster1>ouch: http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2011/08/05/white-trash-repairs-and-i-thought-my-bike-seat-was-uncomfortable/
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08:32<andythenorth>hola
08:33<andythenorth>hmm
08:33<andythenorth>e
08:34<andythenorth>every time I ask for multi-stop docks, they probably get less likely :P
08:36<Hirundo>you mean docks with a state machine, like airports, or multiple docks per station like current road stops?
08:38<@planetmaker>both ;-)
08:38<@planetmaker>The "best" solution probably would be to have docks which define the adjacent tiles where ships can dock
08:39<andythenorth>'someone' was threatening to do multi-stop like current road stops
08:39<andythenorth>probably with 3 per dock
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i don't think that's a good solution at all. any change to that will block introduction of statemachines later
08:39<andythenorth>add permit multiple docks per station
08:39<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause was multi-stop you, or mr 1138?
08:39<andythenorth>one of you suggested it
08:39<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, but... do we want / need state machines for ports?
08:40<andythenorth>yes
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>suggest, yes... implement? no :p
08:40<@planetmaker>:-D
08:40<andythenorth>planetmaker: in the far distant future
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i'm pretty sure we do want that
08:40<andythenorth>new_whatever_ports_is_called is a utopian vision
08:40<andythenorth>we may not get there, but the journey alone might be interesting :P
08:44<andythenorth>grrr
08:44<andythenorth>why do I read forums?
08:44<andythenorth>rage probably shortens my life
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>don't ever read this forum then: :p http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/attachment.php?aid=4236
08:47<@planetmaker>:-O
08:48<@planetmaker>that *might* shorten life even more
08:49<Hirundo>huh :o how did that happen?
08:50<andythenorth>he
08:50<andythenorth>stalled on a gradient?
08:50<andythenorth>wheelslip limiter didn't kick in apparently
08:50<andythenorth>hmm
08:51<@peter1138>crazy
08:51<dihedral>yes you are ^^
08:51*andythenorth ponders
08:53<andythenorth>hmm
08:53<andythenorth>thought I'd better lay down some facts: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=962409#p962409
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09:08<@planetmaker>hm, coffee, tea or cookie, andythenorth ? ;-)
09:08<andythenorth>tea
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09:09<@planetmaker>that's perfect. I just happend to make some new one :-)
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09:18<Eddi|zuHause>it's cool that nml gives the actual file as error location, but it misses the "included from <x>" part
09:20<Hirundo>Is it possible to deduce that info from the CPP output?
09:20<Rubidium>it probablyis
09:21<Rubidium>it adds filenames and offsets in some format to the files
09:21<Rubidium>so from that data it ought to be possible to deduce a 'trace'
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>gcc must do that somehow...
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09:25<Hirundo>At a quick glance it seems indeed possible, but I don't have time to look into it right now
09:25<Hirundo>Could you file a feature request at the NML issue tracker?
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>have a link?
09:27<Hirundo>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/issues
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10:00<andythenorth>bbl
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12:23<frosch123>is anyone in here running a tiling window manager?
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12:24<blathijs>frosch123: Yes
12:24<blathijs>(awesome)
12:24<frosch123>i consider using one too
12:24<frosch123>which one is the "default" debian one?
12:25<frosch123>"default" as in most-likely integrated with other stuff
12:26<frosch123>best-maintained or simliar
12:26<blathijs>Not sure, awesome works for me rather well
12:26<blathijs>though I use it without the GNOME taskbar and menu stuff
12:27<Ammler>is awesome the wm for gnome?
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22720 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt hebrew.txt spanish.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: hebrew - 8 changes by rril
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 11 changes by Tucalipe
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: spanish - 2 changes by lpenap
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14:11<@Alberth>is Action14 documentation ( http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action14 ) incorrect? It says <identifier> 4*B after action 14, but the examples show an extra byte in-between
14:11<@Alberth>back in 30 minutes
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14:15<+michi_cc>Alberth: Don't confuse the table explaining the parts with the actual syntax printed above.
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14:40<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth/michi_cc: is this better?
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14:40<__ln__>meanwhile in the US: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43909060/ns/today-today_people/t/hes-labeled-sex-offender-sleeping-his-own-wife/
14:41<+michi_cc>The description for <chunks ...> should be directly after 14 for a logical order
14:44<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: yes, that's what I expected. Thanks
14:46<+michi_cc>Moved <chunks ...> up
14:49<@Alberth>so how does the first example in Descriptions fit that pattern?
14:49<@Alberth>"C" "CSTM", is that <chunk ...> ?
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>no, the whole thing until the final 00 is the chunk#
14:53<@Alberth>so that example misses "C"/"B"/"T", <identifier> and all the other fields below <chunk...> ?
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14:56<@Alberth>First part of the syntax, upto the table makes sense to me, but I cannot relate the fields in the table to that first part.
15:11<@Alberth>apparently, more people are getting confused :p
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15:23<frosch123>why is there some guy on the forums trying to understand r1?
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15:25*Alberth guesses he wants to build r1
15:25<frosch123>you mean that functions fails to compile in r1?
15:25<andythenorth>ot: I have annoying nickserv messages from my irc client when I open it
15:25<andythenorth>any clues what I'm doing wrong?
15:26<andythenorth>I've moved to a new laptop - same client, same nicks, different MAC address
15:26<andythenorth>I've googled a bit for help
15:26<@Alberth>you don't log in ?
15:26<andythenorth>hmm
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15:27<@Alberth>frosch123: given his knowledge of C/C++ pretty much anything is possible
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15:29<frosch123>i wonder whether i should give him the link to ottd 0.1
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15:30<frosch123>andythenorth: on wireless?
15:30<andythenorth>yes
15:31<andythenorth>but I'm trying to figure out irc weirdness
15:31<andythenorth>sorry for flapping :(
15:31<Wolf01>hello
15:31<andythenorth>I am getting pissed off with getting 9 messages from nickserv every time I join the room
15:31<andythenorth>"this nickname is registered, please choose a different nickname or...[truncated]"
15:32<andythenorth>then "you are successfully identified as andythenorth"
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you copied over the config from the old computer?
15:32<andythenorth>yes
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>could put nickserv on ignore :p
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15:35<andythenorth>hmm
15:36<andythenorth>found some settings in my client to ignore messages
15:36<andythenorth>may have side effects, who knows ;P
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>my guess is that you always got these messages, but they were hidden in some status window
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15:39<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: don't squander bits on crossings :P
15:39<andythenorth>roadtypes need them
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>imho roadtypes need more bits than are available anyway
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>and didn't i say i won't implement this?
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15:44<andythenorth>:)
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15:50<agelito>!dl
15:50-!-agelito was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
15:51<Eddi|zuHause>ooooh... that didn't happen in a long time :p
15:56<V453000>duh
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16:26<frosch123>night
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16:52<@Terkhen>good night
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18:44<Eddi|zuHause>compile copypaste upon IS2?
18:44<@planetmaker>tracks are company property. company gone -> tracks gone
18:45-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CD21.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
18:45<welshdragon>ah
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>you could write a crude export routine writing tile height and trackbits into a file, and read that in chipp as a "map generator"
18:46<welshdragon>or I can ask Chill to try to fix savegame compatibility :P
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>that is not going to happen
18:47<@planetmaker>most probably not. It would be time not well spent
18:48<welshdragon>but why? CHIPP is newer than IS2, yet it fails to load a save, which iirc normal OTTD does fine
18:48<@planetmaker>both are patched versions...
18:49<@planetmaker>and versionA says that the savegame format is like A and versionB says it is like B
18:49<@planetmaker>both of which are different from trunk
18:50<@planetmaker>both use the same version for savegames but with a different meaning
18:56<welshdragon>hmm, indeed, I just changed the extension of an old save to that of a scenario, it throws up 'Unexpected End of Chunk'
18:56<welshdragon>when loaded with 1.1.1 (save was from IS2.1.1)
18:58<welshdragon>So, guess I can't 'update' the game I'm playing
18:58<welshdragon>(i've played said game now for 15 months, and still not 'completed' it)
19:00<welshdragon>oh well, thanks PM. I'll have 'stable' internet again in 3 - 4 days, and I'll have set up my BNC again, so ciao for now!
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19:01<@planetmaker>ghost hour is over anyway. good night
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19:01<Ammler>do ghosts respect timezones?
19:01-!-supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-72-43-171-87.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:04<@planetmaker>they walk with the time zones
19:05<Wolf01>'night
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19:22<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker/Ammler: are you aware that when i post a comment on the devzone it redirects me from https to http?
19:25<Ammler>well, does that happen because you need to login?
19:26<duckblaster>that's going from secure to non secure, not good
19:27<Ammler>well, login does force you to ssl
19:27<duckblaster>it should be secure all the time
19:28<Ammler>and after successful login, you get redirected to where you came from
19:28<duckblaster>not just when loging in
19:28<Ammler>duckblaster: up to you
19:28<duckblaster>cookies can be hijacked when nonsecure
19:29<duckblaster>maybe not important here, but with bigger sites like facebook.......
19:34<Ammler>I am not sure, if it is unsecure, as you get the cookie with ssl, right?
19:34<Ammler>after that, why should it matter if you continue without
19:38<Ammler>the question is rather, is the force login with ssl useless?
19:39<duckblaster>the cookie is sent enencrypted, anyone on the same network (especially wireless) can get it
19:39<duckblaster>and use it
19:39<duckblaster>very easy
19:39<duckblaster>they are then logged in, no password stealing needed
19:40<Ammler>how does that matter, if with or without ssl?
19:40<duckblaster>with ssl, it is not possible
19:40<duckblaster>everything is encrypted
19:40<duckblaster>takes years to brute force it
19:40<duckblaster>no ssl, done in seconds
19:41<Ammler>can you show me?
19:41<duckblaster>let me find the info
19:42<duckblaster>on a wireless network?
19:42<Ammler>I guess, it is possible if you can setup proxy (man-in-the-middle), but then you need to tell the user that the cert is trusted
19:42<duckblaster>install firesheep addon in firefox
19:43<duckblaster>connect to wireless network
19:43<duckblaster>log in to facebook or similar on other computer on network
19:43<duckblaster>steal the cookies
19:44<duckblaster>http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Microsoft-responds-to-Firesheep-cookie-jacking-tool-Update-1131124.html
19:44<ccfreak2k>Windows Live didn't use SSL?
19:44<duckblaster>only for login i think
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19:49<Ammler>well, I allow user to use ssl only, but I do not force it
19:49<Ammler>I force just login and profile
19:50<duckblaster>turn ssl always on as default
19:51<Ammler>there are still windows user around...
19:52<Ammler>maybe I find a way to force ssl after login
19:57<Ammler>duckblaster: you know redmine?
19:57<duckblaster>no
19:58<Ammler>I have no clue how I could setup https per default but still allow http
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19:59<duckblaster>if logged in, check if the use https pref is set, if yes, redirect to https
19:59<duckblaster>set that pref on by default
20:00<Ammler>well, that might require patching...
20:00<Ammler>always force to https for logged in users is ok
20:01<Ammler>that is not the issue
20:01<Ammler>the issue is how to detect if someone is logged in
20:01<duckblaster>login cookie?
20:01<duckblaster>how do you know who the user is?
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20:02<Ammler>you speak to me like I am dev of redmine :-P
20:02<Ammler>I am just user
20:02<duckblaster>got server access?
20:03<duckblaster>hack the code
20:03<duckblaster>should be only about 2 lines to add i expect
20:03<Ammler>ok, not helpful, but thanks :-)
20:03<duckblaster>is it php?
20:04<Ammler>rails
20:04<duckblaster>hmm
20:04<ccfreak2k>Ruby on Stilts
20:04<duckblaster>i'll grab a copy of the code
20:04<Ammler>well, it is fine, I will ask upstream first anyway
20:04<Ammler>but would be cool, if ypu provide a patch :-P
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20:05<Eddi|zuHause><Ammler> well, does that happen because you need to login? <- no, i'm already logged in, just submit the comment and suddenly it leaves https
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: if i follow the link in the emails, i get to https
20:06<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: once i am on https, nothing should lead me back to http, but it does.
20:09<Ammler>hmm, true
20:09<Ammler>this I consider a bug
20:16<Ammler>another issue is, that google adsense aren't available for ssl
20:16<Ammler>so some browsers do error, if you mix ssl with non-ssl content
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20:21<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: added #2931, too late for now :-)
20:21<Ammler>good night
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---Logclosed Sat Aug 06 00:00:14 2011