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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-08-16

---Logopened Tue Aug 16 00:00:01 2011
---Daychanged Tue Aug 16 2011
00:00<KittenKoder>Anyone familiar with NML alert right now?
00:22-!-Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd
00:22<Pikka>KittenKoder, it'd probably be better to code it "properly" as a vehicle.
00:22<KittenKoder>Then what ID would I use for the replacement?
00:23<KittenKoder>All I want to do is replace the sprite, not change anything else.
00:23<Pikka>within opengfx+?
00:23<KittenKoder>Yeah.
00:24<KittenKoder>Not directly though, as a GRF.
00:24<Pikka>hmm
00:24<Pikka>well, if opengfx+ just uses the default sprites, then I guess replacing the sprites would work.
00:25<KittenKoder>I'll try and see what it does.
00:25<KittenKoder>Once I get the sprites themselves done.
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01:40<KittenKoder>Wait, it looks like they already chose new ones.
01:43<KittenKoder>Which is a good thing because I don't want to code a whole thing just to get replacement sprites. LOL
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03:28<@Terkhen>good morning
03:28<KittenKoder>hihi
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03:45<mosi|work>is there a current copy/paste patch for 1.1.2 ?
03:46<@planetmaker>1.1.2 with a c&p patch is not 1.1.2 anymore.
03:47<@planetmaker>thus you can use a nightly right away
03:47<mosi|work>that i might actually do, cheers
03:48<@planetmaker>basides: the newest version is most likely found in the patch's thread or nowhere ;-)
03:49<mosi|work>just found it, latest release was aug 15. i was thinking that was last month for some reason
03:50<@planetmaker>one month is also not much time
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04:22<AlexLivingstone>hi
04:28<KittenKoder>I am of the mind that I suck at drawing sprites.
04:38<@planetmaker>it's not a job done quickly nor learnt quickly, I think
04:39<KittenKoder>I need to learn to draw them by hand.
04:40<KittenKoder>I have a pen tablet ... don't know why I keep forgetting to use it.
04:40<@planetmaker>some people use 3D models to get the shape about right. But all better 8bpp sprite artists give them a manual retouch as far as I know.
04:41<@planetmaker>those who don't draw them w/o a model right away that is
04:41<KittenKoder>I can model well in 3D ... but they don't transfer well, they wind up needing to be almost completely redrawn.
04:42<KittenKoder>... and then I just can't get it to line up at all. >.<
04:43<KittenKoder>What I am thinking of is making a 3D model of the basic outline to get the lighting right, then draw the rest by hand.
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04:45<KittenKoder>The hardest part is that the color conversions wind up with a lot of animated colors, then adding the company colors is another story.
04:46<@Terkhen>IIRC egrvts was done with 3D models converted to 8bpp sprites, for example
04:49<KittenKoder>I saw that, but I can't get the same results no matter what I do.
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04:53<KittenKoder>Just realized one reason it's been hard.
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04:56<KittenKoder>Hey, can the purple block be used for custom colors?
04:56<KittenKoder>In the DOS palette.
04:57<Hirundo>No, you can't change the palette, it's hard-coded in OpenTTD
04:58<KittenKoder>Okay, thanks, just checking because it would have been nice, but not needed.
04:59<@planetmaker>well... there are re-colour sprites. Thus you can re-sort the palette
05:00<KittenKoder>I saw those commands in NML
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05:07<@Yexo>KittenKoder: if you need more colors than are available in the default palette you'll need to use a 32bpp blitter
05:08<@planetmaker>Yexo: still. I already wondered whether one could assign other colours to the unused slots in the DOS palette
05:08<@planetmaker>not on newgrf-side but on openttd side
05:08<@Yexo>openttd could do that probably
05:09<KittenKoder>Yexo, yeah, I saw that, but I don't need a LOT more colors. ;)
05:09<@planetmaker>it's afterall wasted pixels which is not needed anymore anywhere
05:09<KittenKoder>Just the purples as a gradient would have been cool.
05:11<@peter1138>18 unused colours isn't it?
05:11<KittenKoder>11
05:11<@peter1138>hm
05:11<KittenKoder>Erm, 12, math is off.
05:11<@peter1138>right, i'm looking at the windows palette, d'oh
05:11<KittenKoder>For the DOS palette.
05:12<KittenKoder>Windows, yeah, I think it's 18 but I'm too lazy to load that one up now. :p
05:12<KittenKoder>But then again, the DOS one has two gray gradients.
05:12<@planetmaker>only fixing the DOS palette is interesting
05:13<Pikka>KittenKoder, the secret to rendering sprites is to use a palette containing only the colours that you want :)
05:13<@planetmaker>s/fixing/enhancing/g
05:13<KittenKoder>That's what I had JUST realized, Pikka .... LOL
05:13<@planetmaker>Pikka: thus you render already with the proper palette?
05:13<Pikka>for example, my av8 palette only really has the two company colours and shades of grey
05:13<KittenKoder>I was looking at the palettes then thought "if I just turn all the colors I don't want to pure white ...."
05:13<Pikka>pure pink is a better idea :P
05:14<@planetmaker>^
05:14<@peter1138>magenta :D
05:14<Pikka>him too
05:14<KittenKoder>I was thinking of using pure pink as the company color for the rendering.
05:14<@planetmaker>CC has shades. You don't want to loose that
05:14<Pikka>well, you want the 8 shades of company colour, so it's better to stick with blue and green imo
05:14<KittenKoder>Well, a gradient pink, then it would be easier to convert while keeping the other colors.
05:14<@planetmaker>KittenKoder: CC is the blue one
05:15<KittenKoder>But metalic colors are bluish. >.<
05:15<@planetmaker>if you do it pink, you add an unnecessary step
05:15<Pikka>I guess there's no reason you couldn't use pink though, planetmaker
05:15<@planetmaker>except that it needs conversion ;-)
05:15<Pikka>why?
05:15<@planetmaker>but yes... maybe to distinguish
05:15<@planetmaker>Pikka: from pink -> blue before actual usage?
05:15<Pikka>nope, the colours in your palette don't need to be the same colours that will be displayed in ttd
05:15<KittenKoder>Not really, I can make a custom palette where the pink replaces the CC in the positions, then using gimp I just apply the new palette without actually converting.
05:16<@planetmaker>hm.. .right. Just palette entries
05:16<@planetmaker>:-)
05:16<@planetmaker>didn't think of that
05:16<@planetmaker>I should make more use of that. Thanks for the prod
05:17<KittenKoder>Gimp lets you apply palettes in two ways, going from RBG to palette it calculates the "best" index for each pixel, but switching the palette after going to indexed it just applies the new colors to each pixel using the same index values.
05:17<@planetmaker>I know
05:17<KittenKoder>Oh. >.<
05:17<KittenKoder>I think I typed all that out for myself really.
05:17<KittenKoder>I'm lame like that sometimes.
05:19<@planetmaker>just compiling the new gimp versions is a bitch :-P - thus I can't test the 2.8 alphas ;-)
05:19<@planetmaker>they sadly depend on libs which are not readily available
05:20<KittenKoder>Too many programs have been doing that lately.
05:21<KittenKoder>Gnome is using a LOT of unstables for their latest official releases even. That annoys me.
05:21<KittenKoder>Not Gnome, Ubuntu.
05:22<KittenKoder>Gah, I should be sleeping, just getting palette ideas.
05:23<@planetmaker>Requested 'babl >= 0.1.4' but version of babl is 0.1.2 <-- and 0.1.4 is not released
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05:47<KittenKoder>There, I think I finally made a palette that will make sprite conversion from 3D a lot simpler for me ....
05:48<KittenKoder>Whited out all the animated colors, changed cc1 to purple, whited out the purple, and made cc2 pure green.
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05:55<KittenKoder>IT WORKS!
05:55*KittenKoder does the caramelldansen
05:56<KittenKoder>No more searching for miscolored pixels the hard way.
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05:57<KittenKoder>If I venture into non-vehicle objects, I can make different conversion palette bases depending on what animated color is used.
05:59*KittenKoder wonders if this technique would be nice to share.
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06:38<Eddi|zuHause>woah... i've just seen a Darkvater...
06:42<KittenKoder>Wait ..... wat?
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09:01<@Belugas>hello
09:07<Pinkbeast>Morning
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10:53<AlexLivingstone>is somebody selling grafic-librarys for using it in openttd?
10:55<andythenorth>@seen somebody
10:55<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: I have not seen somebody.
10:56<AlexLivingstone>openttd will be released as browsergame in the next future ;)
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>luckily not in this future, only in the next future, so there's some time left...
11:00<@planetmaker>:-P
11:00-!-Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd
11:01<@planetmaker>actually, if you ask me now, AlexLivingstone, I have some pretty new OpenGFX in stock. I can make a special offer of only 50€. Or as multi-user version for 500€ (up to 50 users) or 1000€ (unlimited users)
11:01<@planetmaker>Deal? :-P
11:16<Rubidium>planetmaker: oh, that sounds nice... let me look up the back account number you can get that money from... got it somewhere
11:18<AlexLivingstone>TX1337FRND
11:19<AlexLivingstone>ASD
11:19<AlexLivingstone>alex StoneD =_=
11:20<AlexLivingstone>2006-12-10
11:21<Rubidium>planetmaker: though I'd sell SDL as a graphics library
11:21<AlexLivingstone>yes we do IT
11:22<@planetmaker>We could sell most things here - except opensfx
11:23<AlexLivingstone>h old, i am in a buy buy situation. can only pay with hometrained
11:30<andythenorth>AlexLivingstone: I have $10,000 here which you could have a share of
11:31<andythenorth>but first please send me $1,000 to unlock it with
11:34<@planetmaker>:-)
11:34<@planetmaker>sounds like a viable business model
11:36<AlexLivingstone>$ != Amero Aight?
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11:38<AlexLivingstone>planetmaker: 8-view gif with transparency or 8-class-model
11:39<AlexLivingstone>andythenorth:1.000 for planetmaker and the rest for surviving a video shot..?
11:40<AlexLivingstone>but who buys videos 2day
11:41<AlexLivingstone>maybe planetmaker can ask for the buy-IN
11:42<@planetmaker>you don't honestly want anyone of us to pay for something related to openttd developement done by a 3rd party side?
11:43<@planetmaker>we all work for the joy of it on this project and anyone is free to do so, too
11:46<@planetmaker>anyone can of course also spend the money on it as s/he pleases
11:47<@planetmaker>but it's not like we can fund any development
11:48<@planetmaker>and I think I heard this story already
11:48<Pinkbeast>planetmaker> I'm slightly impressed you seem to understand what he's on about
11:50<@planetmaker>Pinkbeast: not sure. But I just got a flashback
11:51<@planetmaker>and there it was like "we make openttd a browser game if you can sponsor $$$"
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11:55<AlexLivingstone>$$$ sounds like *** or foo and not bar foo cash money ;) what would you please for implement 1.4 AME > 1 EUR <0.6 AME with playback for choosing currency by city/bank with attitudes when +1- for -1+, i dont have 3rd party side only front side speakers and also would do it for the joy
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11:55<AlexLivingstone>the story is about +/-2006
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12:13<AlexLivingstone>i am late
12:13<AlexLivingstone>need only 1 helicopter
12:13<AlexLivingstone>buy
12:14<AlexLivingstone>what about gadafi model
12:14<AlexLivingstone>?
12:14<AlexLivingstone>damn
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12:14<AlexLivingstone>cc
12:15<AlexLivingstone>planetmaker: one helicopter (flight) unlimited
12:16<AlexLivingstone>sry
12:16<AlexLivingstone>openttd is source
12:17<Eddi|zuHause>use the sauce...
12:17<AlexLivingstone>yesterday night i dreamed about the woman in red clothes in a car holding me as a pet
12:19<AlexLivingstone>KittenKoder: you have to want to kill the bad image with the noise of your pen. a pen is more dangerous than a hornet
12:20<andythenorth>go to sleep ninky nonk
12:21<andythenorth>go to sleep pinky ponl
12:22<@Terkhen>what's up with this guy?
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me of babyottd :p
12:25<AlexLivingstone>pixel is still idea and goal which the hu mans can done atm
12:25<@Terkhen>bbl
12:25<andythenorth>ottd should have a children's TV newgrf
12:25<AlexLivingstone>Eddi|zuHause, ja
12:25<andythenorth>AlexLivingstone is a lingua-bot yes / no ?
12:26<AlexLivingstone>hm first one point galaxy org then my one tixel and then anything you can imagine (in px;)
12:27<AlexLivingstone>ja special lingua-bot, does TLD .eo exist, which country takes it right now
12:27<AlexLivingstone>?
12:27<AlexLivingstone>;)
12:28<AlexLivingstone>babyottd which is still drinking beer but dont get a joy centered
12:33<AlexLivingstone>will oftc make it the next 33 years? vtt prainted
12:34<AlexLivingstone>Eddi|zuHause: thx
12:36<AlexLivingstone>oh tt dman aight
12:36<AlexLivingstone>wann read the line with flashback to playback
12:36<AlexLivingstone>bb
12:36<andythenorth>who's got op?
12:38<AlexLivingstone>always the same line: simon says look tv and smoke mariuhana or have sex with mario or anna
12:40<AlexLivingstone>simon said: noise and time error organisation
12:46<AlexLivingstone>^^
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13:10<TrueBrain>@whoami
13:10<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: TrueBrain
13:10<TrueBrain>ugh, wrong channel :P
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>HA! we caught you!
13:19<TrueBrain>proof it
13:21<blathijs>s/proof/prove/
13:21<TrueBrain>really?
13:22<TrueBrain>I guess I remembered why I don't like hanging out here .. you get corrected over your english every step of the way :D
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13:30<Wolf01>hello
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22754 /trunk/src/lang/ (malay.txt unfinished/persian.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: malay - 118 changes by kazlan68
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: persian - 186 changes by Peymanpn
13:48<Ammler>TrueBrain: set reverse dns ^ :-)
13:49<TrueBrain>Ammler: call my ISP plz
13:49<Ammler>wow, you can't do that there?
13:49<TrueBrain>I am just randomly replying with random statements, much like yours :D
13:50<Ammler>I meant this: [19:46] *** The topic was set by DorpsGek!truebrain@178-33-34-239.ovh.net on 15.08.2011 01.52.
13:50<TrueBrain>and how the hell should I have known that?
13:50<Ammler>oh, indeed I had that because I joined :-P
13:51*TrueBrain slaps Ammler
13:51<Ammler>hmm, no water
13:56<SpComb>ovh, eh
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15:03<andythenorth>it's oh so quiet
15:07<@Alberth>time to relax, read some news, answer some issues, and decide what to do next
15:13<andythenorth>time to tweeter!
15:13<andythenorth>in my case
15:18<Pinkbeast>Write us more ships/industries/etc
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15:42*andythenorth needs to draw rivers
15:42<andythenorth>but first: chores
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15:48<appe>evening, fellows.
15:48<appe>i have a particular issue with version 1.1.2 (and 1.1.1, wich it originates in).
15:48<appe>in desert mode, the food vagon ..is invisible.
15:49<@Alberth>changed any newgrfs in the past in that game?
15:49<appe>http://gyazo.com/3321bc84eae5ebc7d3f2ab78b1995911
15:49<appe>no, never used any
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15:50<appe>i uninstalled 1.1.1 when i had the issue, and installed 1.1.2 fresh of the site (openttd-1.1.2-windows-win64)
15:50<appe>and it's still there, even in new maps (and saves)
15:51<@Alberth>yeah, good applications are stable across re-installs
15:51<appe>when i buy the vagon, it gets bought and obviosly "is there" (though invisible). when the train runs it doesnt load, or anything.
15:51<appe>what do you suggest?
15:52<@Alberth>I am clueless what happens, at this moment
15:52<appe>:)
15:52<@Alberth>do you have a save game?
15:52<appe>yes
15:52<appe>i can upload it
15:52<appe>hold on.
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15:53<@Alberth>what year is the game?
15:53<appe>Alberth: http://fac.dndr.se/poo/Trardstone%20Transport,%201%20feb%202012_appe.sav
15:54<appe>Alberth: 2012.
15:54<appe>and it's a monorail
15:55<@Alberth>ok, confirmed, I also have a gap at that place :)
15:55<@Alberth>without using your save game
15:55<appe>ah, dash darnit
15:55<appe>well, time for a rail change, i guess.
15:55<appe>:)
15:56<@Alberth>you are using OpenGFX ?
15:56<appe>i ..guess
15:56<appe>i x:ed it during the isntall
15:56<appe>install*
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15:59<@Alberth>it may be an issue of OpenGFX
15:59<@Alberth>I can load food at your Drunnton Food Processing plant
15:59<@Alberth>using invisible food wagons
16:00<@Alberth>so it looks like it is a pure graphics issue
16:00<@Alberth>planetmaker: ^^
16:03<@Alberth>appe: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2814
16:04<appe>:D
16:04<appe>neat.
16:06<@Alberth>Latest stable does not mention that bug, which makes sense as its release date is a few days before that bug report. You may want to try a nightly instead: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies
16:08<appe>ah, perfect
16:08<appe>thanks :)
16:10<@planetmaker>Alberth: it is an issue in the currently released OpenGFX
16:10<@planetmaker>it's fixed in OpenGFX trunk
16:10<@planetmaker>^ appe
16:10-!-robotx [~robotx@pat-36.wireless.bristol.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:10<@Alberth>planetmaker: ok, thanks
16:11<@planetmaker>maybe time for an early release :-)
16:11<appe>how does one get a opengfx trunk?
16:11<appe>:)
16:11<@planetmaker>FooBar was very busy with fixing and implementing stuff
16:11<@planetmaker>appe: follow the link you were given by alberth
16:11<@planetmaker>trunk = nightly
16:12<@Alberth>(close enough :) )
16:12<@planetmaker>today identical ;-)
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16:13<@Alberth>'trunk' means 'source' to me, but that is probably an occupational hazard :)
16:14<@Alberth>appe: there is a 'LATEST' directory in the link. download that version
16:16<appe>ah, yes
16:16<appe>it works
16:16<@Alberth>nice
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16:24<appe>uhm, wait what
16:24<appe>no it didnt
16:24<appe>i did it wrong. awfully wrong
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16:28<Zuu>Missing data files?
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16:28<appe>i didnt actually do it at all
16:28*appe reads readme
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16:30<@Alberth>Zuu: missing food wagon (http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2814), he is trying to install the layest opengfx nightly
16:31<Zuu>Oh, I though he talked about OpenTTD. :-)
16:31<@Alberth>but this is fairly on-topic :p
16:31<Zuu>yep
16:32<appe>it worked!
16:32<appe>hm, though
16:32<appe>while im at it
16:32<appe>newgrf are like ..new graphics (sprites)?
16:32<Zuu>Can be
16:32<Pinkbeast>A bit more than that.
16:33<Zuu>But can also be a lot more than that ^
16:33<Pinkbeast>newgrfs are typically new vehicles or industries, but the term covers a multitude of sins
16:33<Zuu>For example there exist town name NewGRFs that only provide new town name generators, but no new graphics.
16:34<@Alberth>appe: browse http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ for a while :)
16:34<@Alberth>or look at the list newgrfs that you can download from bananas
16:35<Zuu>Or see a list of all user contributed content here: http://bananas.openttd.org/en/ (separated into categories such as NewGRFs, AIs etc.)
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16:37<Zuu>I keep wondering why there are so many people downloading an AI library, than the only AI that requests it.
16:37<Zuu>many more*
16:38<Zuu>507 of the AI and 807 of the library ^^
16:38<Pinkbeast>Library's updated more frequently? (Which AI and which library?)
16:39<Zuu>509 resp. 807*
16:39<Zuu>Tutorial AI 5 and SuperLib 13.
16:39<Zuu>The download counts are per specific version.
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17:06<appe>pph
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17:11<appe>new industries :o
17:11<appe>i want bigger chains..
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17:11<__ln__>http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2011/08/coining-term-elop-effect-when-you-combine-osborne-effect-and-ratner-effect.html
17:11<Pinkbeast>Zuu> Perhaps downloading the library trying to work on an AI based on the tutorial one?
17:11<Pinkbeast>appe> FIRS is quite jolly and not as beset with micromanagement as ECS
17:11<Zuu>Perhaps, but why would the ratio be that large. Most users I would expect not to get into such things.
17:11<Zuu>But perhaps I should be happy that my library attracts 300 users that don't need an AI to "use" it :-p
17:11<appe>as what to the who now?
17:11*appe tries it out
17:11<andythenorth>appe: how many industries?
17:11<appe>uhm, many?
17:11<appe>:D
17:11<appe>i just enjoy building neat chains
17:11<andythenorth>http://tt-foundry.com/sets/FIRS/schema/economies
17:11<appe>do i simply download the grf and load it?
17:11<andythenorth>yes
17:11<andythenorth>current release on the content download service is 0.6.4
17:11<Pinkbeast>Don't load it in a running game or Comedy Will Ensue
17:11<andythenorth>you'll need vehicle sets that support it
17:11<appe>ah, ok.
17:11<appe>crikey.
17:11<appe>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=50808
17:11<appe>i took this
17:13<Pinkbeast>OK, but DWE is purely chrome. Any station tile is like any other, no matter how it looks, provided it has track. You do need sensible vehicle sets.
17:15<andythenorth>appe: quite a lot of vehicle sets work with FIRS
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17:15<Pinkbeast>Someone is too modest to mention HEQS, for starters. :-)
17:17<andythenorth>NARS 2, UKRS 2, 2CC set, OpenGFX+ trains
17:18<appe>:)
17:18<appe>neat.
17:18<Pinkbeast>Not UKRS1?
17:19<Pinkbeast>eGRVTS seems to work with FIRS and starts very early with horse-drawn vehicles (pertinent if you're also using UKRS2 and FISH and starting early)
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17:19<andythenorth>eGRVTS won't refit to alcohol sadly :(
17:20*Hirundo ponders starting a FIRS game
17:20<andythenorth>try the nightly
17:20<andythenorth>you can find all the bugs :)
17:20<Pinkbeast>I'd been wondering about that, although the UKRS2 livestock hole is more vexing
17:21<andythenorth>?
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: that's a feature.
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>although certainly an annoying one
17:22-!-Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit []
17:22<opa_>horse vehicles?? how early can you start?
17:22<opa_>when the game is still quite playable
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17:22<Pinkbeast>Eddi> Pikka thinks it's a feature; I disagree.
17:23<andythenorth>make an add-on grf
17:23*andythenorth agrees with pikka btw
17:23<Pinkbeast>... although obviously if I don't like it I can suck it up because it's not like I did the set etc
17:24<andythenorth>opa_: depends what other sets you have
17:24<andythenorth>before 1830 it's really quite boring
17:24<Pinkbeast>opa> The eGRVTS horse vehicles are effectively around forever; the FISH sailing ships start in 17xx but are alas too slow to work with OTTD's payment structure a lot of the time.
17:24<andythenorth>and the horses are broken with realistic road vehicle acceleration, but you can turn that off
17:25<andythenorth>no sailing ships in FISH ;)
17:25<andythenorth>there's an early ships grf or such
17:25<Pinkbeast>Oh, sorry, yes, I was thinking of the early ships.
17:25<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22755 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#4727]: When marking tile selections dirty, use the height information of the corners instead of the surface slope. This is more accurate when the foundation is kind of undefined.
17:26<Pinkbeast>If I were doing it (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=52073) again, I would start in 1825 or so, with enough time to build some horse-drawn networks before the invention of the Planet.
17:26<Pinkbeast>But it's a long way from the Planet in 1830 to the Coppernob and Crampton making railways anything but a novelty for pax only
17:27-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4d39.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:27<Pinkbeast>Also now daylength patches try and keep income per annum constant, I'd feel free to play with the daylength _shamelessly_
17:28<andythenorth>good night
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17:29<@planetmaker>just make sure you play w/o inflation if starting this very early
17:30<Pinkbeast>That was next on my list of things, yes. :-)
17:30*planetmaker doesn't play ever with inflation, though
17:31<Pinkbeast>I do sometimes, it helps to address the way the game just gets easier as vehicles get larger and more powerful.
17:33<@planetmaker>how does it address that?
17:33<Pinkbeast>Because they also get more expensive to run in real terms.
17:33<@planetmaker>you also get more money etc
17:33<Pinkbeast>Inflation increases costs faster than payments, does it not?
17:34<@planetmaker>yes indeed. slightly
17:34<@planetmaker>interestingly this leads to the fact that the inflation settings for 'hard' is actually easier than for the 'easy' difficulty setting
17:35<@planetmaker>as the relative increase in costs is more in the easy difficutlty
17:35<Pinkbeast>Also inflation has the odd characteristic that it makes loans slightly nicer
17:38<Pinkbeast>I'd slightly rather a shim that adjusts cargo payment rates based on the speed/power/cost of available vehicles in some deeply magic way, although I realise that's a hard problem
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17:47<Wolf01>'night
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18:24<appe>are there grf that makes town become bigger?
18:24<Sc00by22>there's a few cmds to change the sizes
18:25<appe>commands?
18:25<appe>id like that.
18:25<KittenKoder>Advanced Settings > Economy > Towns
18:26<appe>ah, there we are, thank you :)
18:26<KittenKoder>welcome
18:26<Eddi|zuHause>TTRS towns tend to be bigger (afair, haven't used that in a long time, as the towns look also uglier)
18:28<KittenKoder>If you want the boundaries to grow, use town GRFs like Swedish houses and UK houses, there are no huge buildings so the towns spread out more to.
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18:29<aditsu>hi, what's the maximum production for oil rigs?
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>30000-ish
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>hm, no, more like 3000-ish
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18:34<aditsu>Eddi|zuHause: huh? I have an oil rig with 1215000 liters production
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>that's 1215, the 000 is only display ;)
18:34<aditsu>oh, so it goes up to about 3000?
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>there's a more exact number, but i don't remember it
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>must be somewhere in the wiki or the forum
18:36<aditsu>is it related to e.g. maximum coal mine production?
18:36<aditsu>(that's 2295)
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>i think all extractive industries have the same limit
18:37<KittenKoder>Will changing the palette of a NewGRF break saved games?
18:37<@planetmaker>@calc 2295 * 9
18:37<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 20655
18:37<@planetmaker>@calc 2295 * 8
18:37<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 18360
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>KittenKoder: it may, or may not...
18:38<KittenKoder>LOL
18:38<aditsu>@calc 255 * 9
18:38<@DorpsGek>aditsu: 2295
18:38<KittenKoder>Not a definitive answer .... maybe I'll just make a new version instead.
18:39<aditsu>@calc 0/0
18:39<@DorpsGek>aditsu: Error: float division
18:39<@planetmaker>KittenKoder: in 99% of the cases it will not matter
18:39<@planetmaker>but in principle it can go wrong
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18:40<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 255*74*30/256
18:40<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 2211.328125
18:40<appe>hm
18:41<appe>is there any particular reason forest industries doesnt form in desert maps?
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>appe: yes
18:41<KittenKoder>Forests don't grow in deserts.
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>appe: the saw mills must be funded by the player
18:41<appe>ah, ok
18:42<appe>uhm
18:42<appe>but, how?
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>appe: near rainforest trees, so they can be chopped down
18:42<appe>ah, crap.
18:42<appe>hey wait, this is a winter map
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>appe: in arctic map, it must be above snow line
18:43<Eddi|zuHause>appe: so they might not form if you have very flat maps
18:43<appe>ah
18:43<appe>figures
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19:32<KittenKoder>Using animation colors in the GUI doesn't effect it, does it?
19:32-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean?
19:33<KittenKoder>I'm trying to be lazy and don't want to go through the whole seek and destroy for miscolored pixels is all.
19:33<KittenKoder>But the icons won't be blinking and stuff if there's a stray animated color there, would it?
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>of course it would
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>palette animation is applied to the whole screen
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>not any particular sprite
19:34<KittenKoder>Frell.
19:34<KittenKoder>Okies, can't be lazy there.
19:34<KittenKoder>LOL
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>this is all simple if you use the right conversion
19:36<KittenKoder>Yeah.
19:43<KittenKoder>GUI icons have always been a weak point to me.
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19:54<KittenKoder>Heh, I made my icons better .... that's shocking to me.
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20:02<KittenKoder>Okay, time to learn breaking the nml files into sections. :p
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>ask planetmaker to help you set up the "standard" makefile?
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20:15<KittenKoder>I'm going to have to. >.< I'm getting lost in other people's code and I'm not good at reading other people's code.
20:15*KittenKoder thus why not a good team player normally.
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20:58<KittenKoder>I found a copy of it.
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21:55<KittenKoder>planetmaker, are you active now?
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---Logclosed Wed Aug 17 00:00:32 2011