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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-08-20

---Logopened Sat Aug 20 00:00:36 2011
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01:13<@planetmaker>moin
01:35<CIA-2>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22765 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp table/sprites.h): -Cleanup: Remove unused constants and name a magic constant
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02:39<andythenorth>buenes noches etc
02:40<andythenorth>@seen pikka
02:40<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <pikka> the up/ down views are proportioned the same as the horizontal views. the roof should be half the length it is in the horizontal. :)
02:40<pjpe>model trains
02:40<pjpe>are fuckin expensive
02:48<andythenorth>can we patch a string in somewhere so vehicles show what newgrf they're from?
02:50<andythenorth>probably in buy menu *and* in vehicle info window
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03:01<@planetmaker>andythenorth: sprite aligner window
03:01<andythenorth>not for developers
03:01<andythenorth>for players ;)
03:01<@planetmaker>:-)
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03:01<@planetmaker>Not sure whether it's possible for vehicles
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03:14<Rubidium>aren't engines related to grf files?
03:14<@planetmaker>sure they are. Just the user-land GUI doesn't show the grf-affiliation anywhere afaik
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03:15<@planetmaker>would be a relatively easy patch, I guess
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03:19<@planetmaker>the question is: do we want that info in the engine info view?
03:20<andythenorth>depends how big the grf name is :P
03:20<andythenorth>we could hide it somewhere one level deeper
03:20<Wolf01>morning
03:20<@planetmaker>andythenorth: in the case of your NewGRFs: much wider than the default vehicle info view as e.g. in the purchase list ;-)
03:21<@planetmaker>where deeper?
03:22<andythenorth>button spawns a new window
03:22<andythenorth>for trains it would fit in 'information'
03:22<andythenorth>but not all vehicles use that?
03:23<andythenorth>although
03:23<andythenorth>there is a problem for ships / planes with yacd anyway
03:23<andythenorth>as they don't show current cargo
03:24<@planetmaker>if you display it for built vehicles: then you have to display it for each part of a consist
03:24<andythenorth>information window isn't a solution
03:24<@planetmaker>if you display it in the purchase view: the current window would double its width
03:24<andythenorth>display on hover?
03:24<andythenorth>bit hidden
03:24<andythenorth>not ideal
03:25<@planetmaker>on hover is the tooltip
03:25<@planetmaker>that's taken. everywhere
03:25<@planetmaker>though... might be an option
03:25<andythenorth>hmmmph
03:26<@planetmaker>the hover string, for, say, purchase list, could take a string parameter
03:26<@planetmaker>in principle
03:26<andythenorth>single window for each game, showing all the vehicles + newgrfs?
03:26<@planetmaker>the game has a vehicle overview window
03:26<@planetmaker>that list probably could / should show it
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03:34<andythenorth>could just draw a puzzle piece icon
03:34<andythenorth>and have it display a new window
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03:47<Zuu>Hmm, uint32 is the limit of number of vehicles in the game? Or is there a lower data structural limit of number of vehicles of a specific type?
03:47<Rubidium>there's a lower limit
03:48<Rubidium>the pool supports not as much vehicles and neither do many commands
03:48<@planetmaker>20 or 24 bits iirc
03:48<Zuu>I think about keeping a counter at each built airport that keeps track of number of aircrafts in holding. That counter would have to be as large as the max number of aircrafts in a game.
03:48<Rubidium>0xFF000 to be precise
03:49<Zuu>I have studied the code to see how easy it would be to do it without a counter, but as far as I've understood the FTA blocks are not bound to tiles. Eg. in the holding pattern there is probably only a block at the places where airplanes turns.
03:51<Zuu>Still I haven't explored all possibilities yet, so I might solve it without an additional data storage, but that have to be a trade off between performance and data usage.
03:51<@planetmaker>@calc 5000*16
03:51<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 80000
03:51<@planetmaker>uint16 might be too small :-)
03:51<@planetmaker>each of the 15 companies might send 5000 helicopters to the same oil rig :-P
03:52<Zuu>Yep
03:52<Zuu>:-)
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04:08<Wolf01>Belugas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS_6-IwMPjM
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05:19<Terkhen>good morning
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08:06<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=56319 <-- nice, Alberth ;-)
08:07<@Alberth>It looked like 'please read wiki' thread, so I continued that trend :p
08:08<@planetmaker>in an awesome fashion :-)
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08:15<andythenorth>planetmaker: is this now redundant? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2507
08:16<@planetmaker>I haven't yet looked at it, I guess
08:16<@planetmaker>oh... it's another sugar refinery issue. Should be
08:17<andythenorth>you rewrote production code from scratch...
08:17<andythenorth>so this should be gone as an issue
08:17<@planetmaker>yes, should. And new issues might have crept in :-)
08:17<@planetmaker>I tested it somewhat for what it's worth, but as you noted yourself, testing production code is a PITA
08:18<@planetmaker>also the issue with the 0x7E call in sheep farm(?) probably can be closed as it's solved differently
08:18<@planetmaker>I *think* so at least :-)
08:18<@planetmaker>terkhen's our sprite-templating guy ;-)
08:22<Terkhen>isn't that done already?
08:22<frosch123>omg... my neighbours are washing their house ....
08:22<@planetmaker>washing their house?!
08:23<Hirundo>How should a name a ticket if it contains a bug fix, code change, feature (request), and patches for those?
08:23<frosch123>they have a broom with extenstions
08:23<@planetmaker>good question, Hirundo. Call it bug fix. We're modest
08:23<frosch123>and they are cleaning the outside wall in the first floor from the street
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08:25<@planetmaker>frosch123, I'm sure that activity wouldn't occur to me as necessary ;-)
08:26<appe>is there any way to cling airports to each other?
08:26<appe>i want to expand :(.
08:26<@planetmaker>there is not
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>nope
08:26<appe>bah
08:26<@planetmaker>except writing lots of code
08:26<Hirundo>planetmaker: Given that the bug fix involves adding 2 characters and changing the case of 1, I found that actually least appropriate :)
08:26<@planetmaker>Hirundo, then use your own judgement. I trust it ;-)
08:27<appe>http://gyazo.com/cd88180db1e8f9353dc60696a0888ffa
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>great. documentation of my mouse says battery holds for a year... now it's been two months and the light blinks red
08:27<appe>ive come to the point were lots of trains + lots of airplanes doesnt work.
08:27*Hirundo adds feature request: change flyspray 'type' from enum to set
08:27<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: likely it fails to switch off
08:27<Terkhen>appe: http://wiki.openttd.org/Feeder_service
08:28<@planetmaker>appe, the problem is not the station size in your screenshot but the tracks to and from are a _severe_ bottleneck and impact througput and efficiency much detrimentally
08:28<Terkhen>with a complex setup you can split the airport in arrivals and departures, but on my experience that's not very efficient either
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but it shows signs of waking up when i touch it...
08:28<appe>Terkhen: im using that, and that doenst cut it. i have 600 busses o_o.
08:28<appe>planetmaker: oh. please explain what to do :)
08:28<Terkhen>buses have too small capacity, use trams or metro trains
08:29<@planetmaker>read the #openttdcoop wiki on station design :-P
08:29<appe>planetmaker: ah, will do
08:29<@planetmaker>or look at some of our savegames for reference; that might be nicer
08:29<appe>by the way
08:29<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive
08:29<appe>ive noticed lots of spelling errors in the swedish version of 1.1.2
08:29<appe>how do i contribute?
08:30<Terkhen>appe: http://translator.openttd.org/en/faq
08:31*Alberth observes a continuation of a trend :p
08:31<Terkhen>what trend?
08:31<appe>(Y)
08:32<appe>http://gyazo.com/4b6bc0cf3f7477feaff5f3e4ccb69bd2
08:32<appe>harr..
08:32<@Alberth>Terkhen: about 30 minutes ago
08:32<Terkhen>heh :)
08:42<appe>bah, i hate choppers
08:43<appe>bah, i hate chopper stations*
08:48<andythenorth>photoshop
08:48<andythenorth>is silly
08:48<andythenorth>it has inertia on drag
08:49<andythenorth>so I stop dragging the canvas and it keeps moving :P
08:49<@planetmaker>lol, that's stupid for pixel work
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you pay extra for this "feature" :p
08:51<Terkhen>:D
08:52<Eddi|zuHause>"Apple is now worth more than the 32 largest european banks combined"
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08:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22766 /trunk/ (21 files in 5 dirs): -Add: river graphics for the original base set (andythenorth)
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>\o/
08:53<andythenorth>yay
08:53<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: which of the dozens of ways to look at the value of a company?
08:53<andythenorth>I now have 3(?) commits?
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: stock market value, i suppose
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08:54<Eddi|zuHause>number of shares * share price
08:54<Rubidium>yeah, then it's easy
08:54<LordAro>:O
08:54<LordAro>yay for river sprites!
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>i guess the banks significantly dropped over the past week :p
08:54<LordAro>well done andythenorth :)
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/19/us-apple-worth-idUSTRE77I46520110819
08:55<Rubidium>lovely news...
08:55<Rubidium>luckily the european banks are the most valuable ;)
08:59<Rubidium>e.g. Deutsche bank has ~1000 billion cash balance, whereas Apple only has 25 billion
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09:30<LordAro>heh, no wonder my debug function wasn't working: "debug("misc", "*src = %s", *src);" online line above: "*src = '\0';" ... :)
09:30<LordAro>s/online/one/
09:31<+glx>should be src and not *src in the call
09:31<+glx>*src is a char, src is a string
09:32<+glx>if you really want to print a char then use %c
09:32<LordAro>that'll be the reasoning behind the warnings then :)
09:34<LordAro>oh, and i do want to print a char ;)
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10:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22767 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Add: river generation
10:14<andythenorth>\0/
10:15<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22768 /trunk/src/ (genworld.h genworld_gui.cpp landscape.cpp lang/english.txt): -Add: progress bar updates for river building
10:16<Terkhen>:)
10:16*andythenorth hopes for commit: 'educate towns to span rivers'
10:17<Rubidium>that'd be lame ;)
10:17<andythenorth>meh
10:17<andythenorth>like bridges weren't invented :P
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10:17<andythenorth>towns will span sea :P
10:22<andythenorth>Rubidium: this one did it :) http://tt-foundry.com/misc/river_town.png
10:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22769 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix (r22678): failed patch merging
10:25<Rubidium>andythenorth: so no reason to teach it ;)
10:25<andythenorth>maybe they need to be more free with bridges :P
10:26<andythenorth>Rubidium: the generator really is effective. Did all the arguing help? :P
10:26<Rubidium>what arguing?
10:27<andythenorth>n debates about river generation methods
10:27<Rubidium>where? ;)
10:27<Rubidium>just did what I thought would be a semi-logical way
10:27<andythenorth>you must have been away :P
10:28<andythenorth>also - do you want me to do | and – directions?
10:28<andythenorth>I will hate doing it, but it might be worth it
10:29<Rubidium>nah, that'd be too much work
10:29<Rubidium>I'd need to learn the half tile code and such
10:29<andythenorth>I'd have to draw it :P
10:30<andythenorth>do rivers have a specific class?
10:31<@planetmaker>water_class_river
10:31<Rubidium>there's a WaterTileClass
10:31<@planetmaker>but tile class is water
10:31*andythenorth ponders banning ocean ships from river tiles
10:32<Rubidium>andythenorth: that's something for the pathfinder
10:32<andythenorth>I have a ship stuck at a bouy in a river
10:32<andythenorth>won't turn around
10:33<Rubidium>guess that's the forbid 90 degree turns rearing its ugly head
10:33<andythenorth>and can't clear the bouy
10:33*andythenorth tests
10:34<andythenorth>yup
10:34<andythenorth>forbid 90' issue
10:34<Rubidium>so *cough* *cough* user error ;)
10:35<andythenorth>good luck with the bug reports for that :D
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10:39<andythenorth>Rubidium: I found an isolated river - no lake :)
10:40<Rubidium>maybe just a tiny lake ;)
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10:47<andythenorth>he
10:47<andythenorth>bbl
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10:51<Terkhen>the river continues underground :P
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12:19<andythenorth>Rubidium: you couldn't flood this little valley? http://tt-foundry.com/misc/river_valley.png
12:19<andythenorth><not complaining>
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12:35<Amis>o/
12:36<Amis>What's the difference between the 32 and 64 bit versions of OpenTTD? I have a 64 bit one right now and it still uses only one core (when in fast forward)
12:37<Rubidium>there is no difference besides the CPU instructions that are being executed
12:37<Amis>Oh... *sadface*
12:38<Rubidium>otherwise it's utterly and completely the same
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12:44<__ln__>Amis: 32 and 64 bits have nothing to do with the number of cores used.
12:45<Amis>I thought it's utilizing the multiple cores :/
12:46<__ln__>running the 64-bit version will increase your popularity among women
12:46<Amis>I see *installs another 64-bit version to double the effect*
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13:06<Rubidium>andythenorth: if you provide the code, it could ;)
13:06<JVassie>$route = str_replace('[','',$route);
13:06<andythenorth>"I provide pictures, you provide war"
13:06<JVassie>anything wrong with that?
13:07<Rubidium>JVassie: what language?
13:07<JVassie>php
13:07<andythenorth>that's where you're going wrong then
13:07*andythenorth </petty>
13:07<JVassie>har har
13:08<Rubidium>maybe it's interpreting it as a regular expression?
13:08<JVassie>hmm
13:08*JVassie checks manual
13:09<Rubidium>does changing the ' to " have any effect?
13:09<__ln__>http://search.slashdot.org/story/11/08/20/0056221/Most-People-Have-Never-Heard-of-CTRLF
13:10<JVassie>indeed it does
13:10<JVassie>works now
13:10<Rubidium>no idea why it works though ;)
13:10<JVassie>weird
13:10<JVassie>:p
13:11<KittenKoder>Sadly, that's not the only simple and time saving shortcut people tend to not know.
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13:31*KittenKoder just had a really stupid idea of OTTD in space.
13:32<@Alberth>Isn't that Elite ?
13:33<KittenKoder>I don't know, it was a stupid flash of an image in my hea.
13:33<@planetmaker>oh.... elite. 4 colours, big polygons... :-) excellent game idea
13:33<KittenKoder>That's what I get for thinking about OTTD while watching Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22770 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: english_US - 6 changes by Rubidium
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: french - 6 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: german - 6 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 103 changes by vytulis7
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: persian - 267 changes by Peymanpn
13:46<@planetmaker>oh, Terkhen missed his beat here ;-)
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22771 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify some NewGRFScan calling code
13:46<Rubidium>he has been warned
13:46<Rubidium>s/s/d/
13:48<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22772 /trunk/src/lang/lithuanian.txt: -Fix (r22770): validation error
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14:13<Terkhen>I always forget this stuff :)
14:14<Terkhen>there, done for tomorrow
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14:20<Terkhen>http://i.imgur.com/QbOPE.png
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14:49<vb>hi guys
14:50<Terkhen>hi vb
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14:53<LordAro>hmmm... how can i find position on character in char array? google only shows stuff about c# and std::string...
14:53<LordAro>s/on/of/
14:55<Terkhen>check (IIRC) string_func.h
14:56<Rubidium>strchr
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15:21<@Alberth>LordAro: char *p = start; while (*p && *p != char_you_look_for) p++;
15:22<Rubidium>Alberth: why code when it already exists?
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15:24<@Alberth>a) it's simpler to understand for new programmers, b) tomorrow 'p++;' becomes more complicated by throwing away non-printable characters
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15:40<__ln__>is there a single-person version of the schönes wochenende ticket?
15:43<__ln__>i don't see one
15:48<pjpe>new gameplay idea: raised subway/tram/hanging trains
15:49<pjpe>like the loop in chicago
15:49<pjpe>someone make it now now now now
15:50<Terkhen>check the forums, already done somewhere
15:50<pjpe>oh really
15:50<Terkhen>IIRC it was glitchy
15:50<Terkhen>and from what I know someone is a busy individual :)
15:51<pjpe>do you know what the name was like?
15:51<__ln__>schwebebahn? (dunno, but that's a good guess)
15:51<Terkhen>I remember that it was a replacement for tram graphics that made they look as if they were hanging
15:51<Terkhen>regarding the name... no idea, make a search for "tram" in the online content
15:52<pjpe>ah only made it look
15:52<pjpe>wonder how hard it would be to make an actual raised rail
15:52<pjpe>so you could build things one tile over a road while still having the road be useful
15:52<Terkhen>depends on what you mean with "things"
15:53<Terkhen>if it is trams, easy
15:53<Terkhen>if it is anything else... not
15:53<pjpe>what's the big limitation with rails then?
15:55<Terkhen>I'm torn between no space in map array and TMWFLB
15:56-!-rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-094-221-158-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:57<Terkhen>but "too much work for little benefit" is not a big limitation as long as someone is willing to work on it so if you manage to find someone to do it I'll go with the first one :)
15:58<pjpe>well i've found myself
15:58<pjpe>if i bother doing this
15:58<pjpe>i mean you can have bridges going over roads
15:58<pjpe>if i can adapt that
15:59<pjpe>make it so bridges don't have to end on empty tiles
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15:59<pjpe>and then be able to move diagonally on bridges
15:59<pjpe>even if it's just one diagonal tile
16:00<Terkhen>check docs/landscape.html
16:01<pjpe>is there any good reason we can't build signals on bridges yet or have no acceptable patches come by for that?
16:02<pjpe>i'm kind of scared to develop any patch because i keep thinking there must be a reason this stuff isn't in trunk already
16:03<Terkhen>the number 1 reason for not having logical stuff like that on trunk is that no one bothered to create a working solution that is up to trunk standards
16:03<Terkhen>there was a hacky patch that did signals in tunnels and on bridges
16:03<Terkhen>the author was working on some stuff that paved the path to a real solution, but IIRC he left it at that point
16:03<pjpe>but theoretically if i made a patch that was not buggy that did signals on bridges
16:03<pjpe>and coded to a good standard
16:04<pjpe>that could be in trunk?
16:04<Terkhen>yes
16:04<Terkhen>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=41260 <--- you might want to check this thread
16:05<Terkhen>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=50283 <--- and this one
16:07<CIA-2>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r22773 /trunk/src/ (landscape.cpp water.h water_cmd.cpp): -Add: Some grass around rivers in desert areas.
16:07<+michi_cc>andythenorth: I sincerely apologize for directly obsoleting the desert river coast again :)
16:07<Terkhen>nah, it still can be used in the SE
16:07<Terkhen>:P
16:09<Terkhen>hmm... when is the layout number chosen for an industry? when it is built?
16:10<@Alberth>it tries various layouts until it fits the terrain
16:10<Terkhen>but once it is chosen, the layout remains constant right?
16:10<Terkhen>what I mean is: is the callback called again?
16:11*Terkhen may be confusing stuff
16:11<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/ind_layout_hack.patch <-- a hack for andy to generate predictable industry layouts
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16:13<Terkhen>urgh
16:13<Terkhen>once again, a simple task opens a can of worms
16:15<Terkhen>if I understood this correctly, each industry is assigned a layout number when it is created, and the industry will always use the tile layout that is assigned to that number
16:15<Terkhen>I need a way to change the selection of available layouts, depending on date
16:16<Terkhen>for example: layout 4 is only available after 1870, the rest are always available
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16:16<Terkhen>I don't see any way to do this on the specs
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16:17<@Alberth>doesn't sound like something you would want to do, imho
16:18<Terkhen>as long as there is any alternative, I don't mind how to do it :)
16:18<@Alberth>can you double the number of layouts by copying all, and later replace the doubles?
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16:18<Terkhen>hmm... why do you want to do that?
16:19<@Alberth>have more layouts for the user as time progresses :p
16:19<Terkhen>but they would be the same
16:20<@Alberth>before 1870 yes
16:20<Terkhen>and after?
16:20<@Alberth>but if you can change the doubles by new layouts after 1870, you have what you want
16:21<Terkhen>but the point is that I don't think I can change layouts at all
16:21<Terkhen>I could decide to use different sprites by date for industry tiles
16:21<Terkhen>but industries themselves use a list of layouts and I don't see any way to change that list
16:21<Terkhen>so I'm guessing that industries are assigned a random layout and they stick with it
16:22<@Alberth>that's bad for you, but good for openttd imho :)
16:22<Terkhen>why?
16:22<@Alberth>newgrf changing #layouts without telling
16:22<Terkhen>I don't want to change layouts
16:22<Terkhen>I want to use a different selection depending on date
16:22<Terkhen>after that, the industry sticks with that layout
16:23<@Alberth>ignore the layout value ?
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16:24<KittenKoder>NewGRFs change a lot of things without telling.
16:24<@Alberth>yes, and it makes keeping things running complicated
16:24<KittenKoder>Complicated ... you mean challenging.
16:24<Terkhen>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/496/ <--- industries have a static list of layouts; to my knowledge they will use the one they are assigned no matter what
16:24<Terkhen>I'm fine with industries using the layout they are assigned
16:25<Rubidium>isn't there a callback for deciding the layout, or is that stations?
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16:25<Terkhen>I just want to decide the list of available layouts when the industry is being created
16:25<Terkhen>I only found it for stations
16:27<Terkhen>it would be something similar to that station callback, yes
16:28<Terkhen>anyways, if it depends on a new OpenTTD callback this task is not as small as I thought :P
16:28<frosch123>industries decide layouts randomly
16:28<frosch123>there is a fs task by andy to allow filtering of the layout in cb 28
16:28<frosch123>i think it was never finished :p
16:29<Terkhen>https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/4131 <--- implemented :O
16:30<frosch123>:)
16:31<Terkhen>thanks, this will work
16:31<Terkhen>I was taking the ugly path as usual :P
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16:42<andythenorth>michi_cc: what did you do :o
16:42<andythenorth>actually you saved me from having to make the desert river tiles better :P
16:43<+michi_cc>andythenorth: http://www.icosahedron.de/openttd/patches/desert_river2.png
16:43<andythenorth>he
16:43<andythenorth>nice
16:43<Rubidium>nah, they'll still be 'bad' when you build them in SE. Won't they?
16:43<andythenorth>I just won't do that
16:43<andythenorth>problem solved no?
16:44<+michi_cc>Same behavior in SE, but you can of course manually place desert to force desert river coasts.
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>has the river generator any similarities with the one i programmed once upon a time?
16:45<andythenorth>Terkhen: did you solve the layout thing?
16:45<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: take a look
16:45<andythenorth>in principle the answer is known
16:45<Terkhen>andythenorth: I solved my confusion at least :)
16:45<Terkhen>I'll take a go at it tomorrow
16:45<Rubidium>as I have no clue what you programmed long ago
16:45<+michi_cc>Your generator worked on the raw height data, didn't it? Rb's is done on the final map.
16:46<andythenorth>Terkhen: FWIW, you just check the layout number against date
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: probably not then ;)
16:46<andythenorth>then you return "don't build" if it's invalid
16:46<Terkhen>andythenorth: I think that refusing to build certain layouts if they are out of their correct date would be enough
16:46<Terkhen>yes, that
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: yes.
16:46<Terkhen>:P
16:46<andythenorth>then cb28 will try to build again
16:46<andythenorth>for all layouts
16:46<andythenorth>until it's run out of layouts :P
16:46<Terkhen>with NewGRFs I usually choose the ugliest path first
16:47<Terkhen>since I know that already from past experiences, I asked here :P
16:47<andythenorth>the actual solution is quite clean :)
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: which was kind of a problem since it could flow down steep slopes and such, which i couldn't properly terraform
16:47<Terkhen>I agree :)
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>also, it could get stuck in tiny sinks
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>which could be solved...
16:48<+michi_cc>The implemented generator has surprisingly good result for the number of code lines used.
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>yep. haven't checked it yet, but the image looks nice
16:49<andythenorth>I think the results are awesome :)
16:49<andythenorth>apart from towns don't straddle rivers enough :P
16:49<andythenorth>now we have to educate FIRS agricultural industries to build near rivers in desert :P
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you can build bridges as a player ;)
16:49<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: they should do it at map gen though
16:50<andythenorth>towns grow up around rivers
16:50<andythenorth>plus it would look neat
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, but usually only one side
16:50<Rubidium>they ought to favour rivers, like they favour coasts
16:50<+michi_cc>A* with random tile cost from a start to an end tile, that's it.
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>before industrialisation, river bridges were scarce
16:51<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: before industrialisation, trains were scarce
16:51<andythenorth>hmm
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but coast favouring is done like "if tile = water, search nearest cost"
16:51<andythenorth>towns can destroy a river?
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: they should not
16:51<andythenorth>I think they can
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: players can
16:51<andythenorth>I haven't proven it
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if towns can, it's probably a bug
16:51<andythenorth>towns will terraform occasionally?
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>missing "don't destroy water" flag
16:52*andythenorth can't remember if towns terraform
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>industries had that problem once, but it should have been fixed
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, towns occasionally terraform
16:52<andythenorth>in that case they might be able to destroy rivers. I haven't read the code to check
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: they should avoid water on this terraforming
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: all commands, especially terraforming ones, can have a flag "do not touch water"
16:54<andythenorth>this would be solved by reading the code I guess :)
16:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: all town actions should have that flag set
16:55<Rubidium>michi_cc: it isn't fully A* though. First a BFS for the closests flat lower tile that can be reached over inclined slopes (in the right direction), repeated till it reaches the coast of a valley (in which case it tries to makes a lake). Then A* with random tile costs to fill in the bits between the already created 'waypoints'
16:58<+michi_cc>Rubidium: That was the executive summary ;)
17:07<Eddi|zuHause># dip, dip, dip in the viz, viz, viz in the water, in the water ... clean
17:07-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
17:08<Prof_Frink>Musk ox musk ox not very dirty.
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17:09*andythenorth thinks it might be time to go
17:09<andythenorth>the work here may be done
17:10<KittenKoder>I really don't like the dev site .... >.< I give up on my train set concept anyway.
17:11-!-Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.183.216] has quit [Quit: Sleep.]
17:12<Terkhen>what dev site?
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: different humour :p
17:14<KittenKoder>The openttd one. ;)
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>you mean the devzone
17:15<KittenKoder>Yeah.
17:15<Terkhen>openttd or openttdcoop?
17:15<KittenKoder>Both actually.
17:16<KittenKoder>But the coop one's layout really annoys me.
17:16*KittenKoder is a very firm follower of KISS
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>any complaints/annoyances in particular or are you just rambling senselessly?
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>"GOP presidential hopeful Michele Bachmann said today that Americans "fear the rise of the Soviet Union" during an appearance on a conservative radio talk show."
17:18<KittenKoder>Mostly just rambling again.
17:18<Terkhen>for openttd you can also check http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/
17:18<Terkhen>I like the coop one myself :)
17:19<KittenKoder>Terkhen, that one it's just the complexity that annoys me, the coop just has a bit more than annoys me more.
17:19<KittenKoder>:p
17:19<Terkhen>what complexity? it is quite simple
17:19*andythenorth finds it simple
17:20<KittenKoder>The problem is that the complexity of open source projects these days can't be helped .... so honestly I have no solutions to offer, it's just my gripe.
17:20*andythenorth gripes about pixels in a similar way
17:21<KittenKoder>The only thing about the pixels in OTTD that annoys me is the horizontal and vertical stretching.
17:22<KittenKoder>Just noticed there's a Flash banner in the hg.openttd.org .... >.< I'm in a bad mood today I guess.
17:24<KittenKoder>That's what I should do, not for OTTD mind you, but see if I can't create a better multi-author system for open source projects that's simpler but still effective.
17:24<KittenKoder>But alas .... I'm too lazy so blah.
17:24<KittenKoder>LOL
17:29<KittenKoder>My train set concept was stupid ....
17:29<KittenKoder>I need something else to occupy my time.
17:31<andythenorth>good night
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17:32<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22774 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] String codes for dates should use unsigned words, like old OpenTTD did before it learned dates before 1920. (Hirundo)
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>suggestion: the "check timetables" option could warn if a large aircraft has a small airport in its orders
17:42<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22775 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Fix: [NewGRF] Stringcodes 82 and 83 are the same as the date codes in old OpenTTD. (Hirundo)
17:46<Terkhen>good night
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17:55<Katje>is it possible to load a new set of ships during a game ?
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>no
17:55<KittenKoder>Nope.
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>you must start a new game
17:56<KittenKoder>Use to be possible but that was highly unstable anyway.
18:04<Wolf01>'night
18:04<Katje>aah
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18:06<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22776 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp strings.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Codechange: Unify the naming of NewGRF string codes; always include the size of the parameter on the stack. (based on patch by Hirundo)
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18:08<Eddi|zuHause>what's with the commit spree tonight`
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>i mean today had like 10 times the commits than the average over the past 2 months
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18:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22777 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix-ish: [NewGRF] Stringcode 9A 01 is signed, and 9A 0B is kind of unsigned. But since both were already casted to the right types later, this makes actually no difference.
18:15<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it's too warm to sleep :p
18:15<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds rather like a cleanup-ish ;)
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it's the only warm day in the whole summer, and still the germans manage to complain :p
18:16<frosch123>nope, it was already warm thursday and friday
18:17<frosch123>so it is the third hot day this week
18:17<__ln__>what, you've been having a cold summer?
18:17<frosch123>not cold, just rainy
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>it was fairly cold some days, and especially nights
18:17<frosch123>well, i am mort southern than eddi :)
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: so you weren't hit by the giant storm?
18:18<frosch123>when?
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>was either yesterday or the day before
18:19<frosch123>hmm, wednesday afternoon there was a lot of rain in the afternoon
18:19<__ln__>the summer here has been the warmest in ~25 years
18:20<frosch123>but it was sunny again when i got home from work
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: a few people in belgium died at an open air festival
18:20<frosch123>oh, and friday noon was also lots of rain, and some lightning
18:21<frosch123>but then i was at work as well
18:21<frosch123>so, who cares?
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>friday noon sounds roughly like the time
18:21<frosch123>i am not exactly close to belgium
18:21<frosch123>i think czech rep. is the next border
18:22<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: only half an hour or so
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it probably only affected northern germany or sow...
18:23<Eddi|zuHause>-w
18:23<frosch123>hmm, my geography is as bad as i expected :p
18:24<frosch123>belgium, lux, and cz are about same distance
18:24<frosch123>france might be closest though
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>the only disance i know is that it's about 160km to berlin
18:28<Eddi|zuHause>czechia might be closer than that, but probably not much
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18:35<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22778 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Add: [NewGRF] Stringcodes for printing 0-based dates. (Hirundo)
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18:46<Hirundo>frosch123: My use case for 'force' was to display the TE of engines in the additional text, but indeed that's not directly entered by the newgrf
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>TE is given as multiplier for mass, or am i missing something?
18:50<Hirundo>it's (10 * mass * coeff) / 256, with coeff being set by the newgrf (0 .. 255)
18:50<frosch123>what additional text?
18:51<frosch123>isn't te shown anyway?
18:52<frosch123>yeah, newgrf currently set the friction using and 8 bit fixed point fractional number
18:53<frosch123>if we would use the same unit for newgrfs, then it would be a "print mass in force unit"-stringcode
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18:59<Hirundo>frosch123: You're not going to add power either? or missed that?
18:59<frosch123>i have not yet
18:59<frosch123>but i guess that should be fine
19:00<__ln__>i decided to experience the ICE-on-ferry myself; now i should figure out where to go and what to see between puttgarden and berlin.
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>the ICE goes to hamburg, i thought
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19:01<__ln__>it does; or actually i think there's even one directly to berlin.
19:01<__ln__>i was considering stopping at lübeck at least
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>might want to go to travemünde then, not sure if there is anything worthwhile so, besides the sea ;)
19:02<__ln__>umm, the direct one also goes through hamburg.
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: there's probably no useful alternative track...
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19:05<frosch123>he, why are there about 5 "signed" in the comments if there should be "unsigned"s
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19:07<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22779 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Add: [NewGRF] Stringcode for printing a unsinged word in power units. (Hirundo)
19:09<frosch123>hmm, the wiki actually says they should be signed...
19:10<Hirundo>^that's why
19:10<__ln__>mecklenburg-vorpommern seems to be within walking distance from lübeck
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19:10<frosch123>Hirundo: it should at least match for the ottd-only stringcodes :p
19:12<frosch123>the other two are original ttd codes, and old ottd print them as signed word
19:13<frosch123>though signed speeds and volumes are not exactly useful :p
19:13<Hirundo>Who says, this stuff actually has to be used ;-)
19:14<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: yep, that was actually a problem right after the war, lübeck was practically cut off from half the local "back lands"
19:16<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22780 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Fix: [NewGRF] String codes 84 and 87 print signed values.
19:19<__ln__>was the border right there, within walking distance?
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>the current border between schleswig-holstein and mecklenburg-vorpommern was also the border between BRD and DDR
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>it hasn't moved since the dissolving of prussia
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>and before that it was border between prussian provinces (mostly)
19:21<__ln__>ok
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>so it was always some kind of border, but never really fortified until then
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>schleswig and holstein were under danish rule until 1866-ish
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>(while schleswig was fully under danish control, holstein was part of the german empire (until 1806) and the german confederation (after 1815)
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19:25<Eddi|zuHause>mecklenburg wasn't part of prussia actually
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>pommern was, but that's kind of further east
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>hinterpommern is now in poland
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>vorpommern is part of germany
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19:31<alluke>how to install patches on mac
19:31<+glx>like on other OS
19:31<Eddi|zuHause>same as any other os
19:32<alluke>that is?
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>have you compiled on mac yet without patches?
19:32<alluke>never
19:32<alluke>i read wiki about that and passed uut
19:32<frosch123>night
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>then go through the "compiling on mac" section on the wiki
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19:32<+glx>that will be the first step
19:32<alluke>isnt there any app like buildottd
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>no
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>that is windows-only
19:33<alluke>would it work on crossover
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't try that...
19:33<alluke>how
19:33<alluke>if it screws up i can always dl new one
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>it's a totally insane thought.
19:34<Eddi|zuHause>it's so insane i can't even come up with a proper analogy
19:35<alluke>lulz
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>i'm serious :)
19:35<alluke>doing the way wiki says is even more insane
19:35-!-rhaeder [~quix0r@dslb-188-100-212-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
19:36<+glx>OSX is insane :)
19:36<__ln__>i have an analogy but i'm googling for a reference right now
19:37-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:37<__ln__>here: http://weblogs.asp.net/alex_papadimoulis/archive/2005/05/25/408925.aspx
19:40<alluke>all i wanted was 2 patches on new ottd ;_____;
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>alluke: then wait until they are included in trunk. or follow the wiki.
19:41<Eddi|zuHause>or switch to windows.
19:41<alluke>yeah
19:44-!-alluke [~591b0bad@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:44<__ln__>meanwhile in netherlands: http://narf-archive.com/pix/448b6b7d04f1e590c52e193c608571b6f8a381cf.jpg
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19:46<Eddi|zuHause>that's probably on purpose. or fake.
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>actually, the section on the lower left looks horribly photoshopped
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>or photoshopped horribly
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>or both
19:50<__ln__>the reflection looks weird, yes
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20:07<pjpe>question: is there any limit to the length of trams?
20:17<__ln__>greater than zero
20:17<pjpe>damn
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20:33<pjpe>i'm guessing long
20:33<pjpe>since modern tram set is exactly what i was thinking
20:33<pjpe>longish trams
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20:40<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of limit do you have in mind?
20:40<Eddi|zuHause>trams are fixed units, so the newgrf has full control over their length
20:42<pjpe>well i mean could you have 10 tile length trams
20:42<Eddi|zuHause>but only if you use a newgrf that has some
20:42<Eddi|zuHause>the length limit is 64 tiles, just like trains
20:42<Eddi|zuHause>only that trams are not affected by platform length
20:43<pjpe>was just wondering if you could have like 3 or 4 tile length trams
20:43<pjpe>instead of the wimpy little looking ones
20:43<Eddi|zuHause>which might be an oversight
20:43<pjpe>but you can with modern tram set!
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23:14<pikka>lalala
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23:24<pikka>hello kk, how goes things?
23:25<KittenKoder>Pretty good, switching OSes now.
23:25<KittenKoder>Ubuntu pissed me off with the last update.
23:25<pikka>oops
23:26<KittenKoder>So going Open Suse/Gentoo
23:26-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.173.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:26<KittenKoder>The cool part is that the ATI drivers actually work out of the box this time.
23:26<KittenKoder>No manual tweaking needed.
23:27<KittenKoder>It actually shocked me, I had the websites all pulled up and everything then noticed that Gnome's effects were working ... those only work if the drivers are perfect.
23:28<pikka>sounds good :)
23:28<KittenKoder>So far ... gotta get the more recent stuff updated then we'll see.
23:29<KittenKoder>I tested it all on my laptop first to ....
23:29<KittenKoder>All my computers like Gentoo more ....
---Logclosed Sun Aug 21 00:00:38 2011