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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-08-26

---Logopened Fri Aug 26 00:00:47 2011
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03:53<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:04<pjpe>what's the deal with getting other people's patches in to trunk?
04:05<pjpe>like some guy made a 'grass grows on unused tracks' patch
04:05<pjpe>which also lets track tiles store how often they're used
04:05<pjpe>which is quite useful
04:05<pjpe>but the guy seems long gone
04:07<@Terkhen>you might want to check the patch and the comments to it first; for example, IIRC that patch adds a lot of additional checks (a big performance hit on maps with lots of railways) for just a cosmetic effect
04:07<@Terkhen>also, it was made before the introduction of NewGRF railtypes
04:08<@Terkhen>so it probably does not take them into account
04:08<pjpe>well i was using it with nutracks
04:08<pjpe>worked fine
04:08<pjpe>hang on
04:08<@Terkhen>try it with vactrains :P
04:09<@Terkhen>grass growing inside a vacuum or over a crystal tube will not look nice
04:09<pjpe>i made a patch that removes all the sprite drawing from it
04:09<pjpe>so it's just storing a bit with track usage
04:10<pjpe>i think that would be more useful
04:10<pjpe>wait a crystal tube?
04:14<@Terkhen>search for vactrain in the forums
04:14<pjpe>yeah i've heard of a vactrain
04:14<pjpe>but a crystal tube as rail?
04:15<@Terkhen>what I'm saying is: each NewGRF railtype would need a way to decide if it wants something to grow over it or not, and a way to specify the sprite
04:15<@Terkhen>and that, given the performance hit for just eyecandy, it is not likely to be included
04:16<pjpe>which is why i separated any drawing code from track 'aging' code
04:16<pjpe>since i think the track aging is more useful
04:16<pjpe>a track usage small map could be useful
04:16<pjpe>could add it to pathfinding
04:16<pjpe>making a more heavily used track chosen less
04:17<pjpe>and it doesn't seem like there's many bad comments against it in the thread
04:17<@Terkhen>I'd start with running performance comparisons between your patch and trunk, using many of the openttdcoop public server savegames
04:18<V453000>few most heavy might do :P
04:19<@Terkhen>I suggest using that crazy one (or at least crazier than most) with railtracks almost everywhere
04:19<V453000>Terkhen: that does not specify it too much :D
04:19<@planetmaker>there's a game (#200?) with 2.5k trains and much tracks
04:19<V453000>201 is probably more heavy
04:19<V453000>with cities everywhere
04:19<@Terkhen>well, my memory is kinda bad, but I'm sure he will not have trouble finding a game like the one I described :)
04:20<@planetmaker>ah, maybe I mean that
04:20<dihedral>morning :)
04:20<@planetmaker>moin dihedral
04:20<@Terkhen>hi dihedral
04:20<dihedral>uh - that was a fast reply
04:20<dihedral>hi :-)
04:20<@Terkhen>it happens when I'm already typing :)
04:22<pjpe>oh you meant glass tubes didn't you
04:22<pjpe>with vactrains
04:22<V453000> Terkhen: this is a map covered head to toe with 2500 trains and cities everywhere
04:23<V453000> and this is a game with 2000 fast maglev trains choosing where to go all at once
04:23<V453000>the second one works only with older nightlies
04:23<V453000>as it is written there
04:23<V453000> and this is a "rather normal" game with 2000 trains
04:25<@Terkhen>pjpe: yes, sorry, false friend for spanish :)
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04:25<@Terkhen>we have the same word for glass and crystal, it is kind of stupid
04:28*SpComb wishes for a screenshot of #201
04:29<V453000>just open it?
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04:31<pjpe>now here's a question
04:31<pjpe>how would i go about doing a benchmark?
04:32<Markk>Take a knife and do a mark in your bench?
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04:38<@pm>10:35 planetmaker: pjpe: learn to meet the macros TIC and TOC
04:38<@pm>10:35 planetmaker: (and add them in the appropriate places, compile once with and once without your patch and compare run time)
04:38<@pm>10:36 planetmaker: with a heavy game you might as well just have the map load and run for xx ticks and stop that time via the OS' time command
04:38<@pm>10:36 planetmaker: might be easier
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04:38<@pm>if it shouldn't have gotten through
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04:38<pjpe>yeah none of that went through
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04:42<@planetmaker>ödel-Escher-Bach-Eternal-Golden/dp/0465026567/ ?
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04:57<@Terkhen>hi Markk
04:58<Markk>How's it going?
04:59<@planetmaker>usually by foot :-P
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05:03<ProgVal>There is a bug in the configuration of the wiki
05:03<Markk>Time for a bike tour!
05:03<ProgVal>In HTTPS mode, I mean
05:04<ProgVal>The root folder is:
05:04<ProgVal>So, page URLs are like this one:
05:04<ProgVal>But links redirect to:
05:04<ProgVal>No, nginx gives "Not found" errors
05:05<@Terkhen>hmm... true, it is missing the /wiki/ part
05:06<@Terkhen>which link?
05:06<ProgVal>All internal links
05:06<ProgVal>Open this page:
05:06<@Terkhen>true, I was trying the ones at the toolbar and those works
05:07<ProgVal>and click any internal link
05:07<@Terkhen>the rest fail
05:07<@Terkhen>Rubidium, TrueBrain ^
05:09<TrueBrain>mediawiki is officially not capable of being available under 2 links, and it often fails ... hard. I am sick of fixing it over and over.
05:10<ProgVal>TrueBrain: KB HTTPS Enforcer automatically redirects me to the secure page
05:10<ProgVal>But I can disable it for OpenTTD website, through
05:11<TrueBrain>mediawiki should just stop being a tart
05:12<ProgVal>Why don't you put MediaWiki at root?
05:12<Ammler>or remove the redirect for https
05:12<Ammler>(at least for wiki)
05:13<ProgVal>Or use the /wiki/ prefix for the HTTP wiki
05:13<TrueBrain>ProgVal: because all https pages are under :)
05:14<TrueBrain>and indeed, mediawiki is told to use /wiki when on https
05:14<TrueBrain>fucking tard ...
05:15<TrueBrain>why doesn't it understand basic concepts of doing what being told :P
05:16<ProgVal>Another way would be to write a little script in LocalSettings.php, that includes either LocalSettings.http.php or LocalSettings.https.php, according to the domain
05:16<TrueBrain>it does, in a more nicer way
05:16<TrueBrain>but mediawiki always knows it better
05:16<TrueBrain>and kinda ignores variables when it seems fit
05:18<ProgVal>Eh, you fixed it!
05:18<TrueBrain>owh, ugh, I remember
05:18<TrueBrain>fucking caches
05:21<ProgVal>Chromium alerts me about contents that do not use HTTPS (red-striked "https://" in the URL)
05:21<ProgVal>I think it's the OVH logo
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05:29<@planetmaker>that's likely
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05:29<@planetmaker>but not much we can do about... right now
05:31<Rubidium>ProgVal: just install an adblocker that blocks said ad
05:31<ProgVal>Just replace by
05:31<ProgVal>Rubidium: I don't like ad blockers
05:32<Rubidium>oh, you fancy the crapload of gifs and flashes to be loaded for every page?
05:32<TrueBrain>forcing https for non-https users is also not nice :P
05:32<ProgVal>More over, I don't care about the HTTPS warning, I just said it because some people might be questionning about it
05:32<ProgVal>Rubidium: Did you know some websites earn money with ads?
05:32<ProgVal>Some great websites, I mean
05:33<Rubidium>it can't be OpenTTD as its ad income are marginal at best compared to the private donations
05:33<ProgVal>I don't know, I don't keep a list :p
05:33<@planetmaker>well... technically we earn with this add...
05:34<Rubidium>ah, the lets go to war argument: they have nuclear weapons, proof it: well... I don't have a list, but they have them
05:34<TrueBrain>planetmaker: technically, we don't earn. We just ensure we get something ;)
05:34<TrueBrain>hihihihi :D
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05:37<ProgVal>Rubidium: :)
05:38<Rubidium>it's like everyone being ueber worried about storing fingerprints in a central databank, yet they allow themselves to be tracked for (almost) every click they do on the internet
05:43<ProgVal>I block trackers, such as Google Adsense and Google Analytics
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07:35<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: but private corporations are The Good and governments are The Evil (american public opinion)
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07:43<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: I wish that in the US all government activities would be put on hold for a week, as well as refuse access to all government property. Lets see whether they then still don't like what the government does for them.
07:48<ProgVal>TrueBrain: The wiki is broken again :/
07:49<TrueBrain>it was never fixed
07:49<TrueBrain>which ever page hits the cache first, wins
07:49<TrueBrain>and I can't be arshed to fix cache issues :P
07:49<ProgVal>ah :|
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09:00<andythenorth>sometimes I think we should be more like drupal / PHP web frameworks - and pile on more patches
09:00<andythenorth>but probably it's a bad idea :P
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>"Almost all bugs require in-depth knowledge of various subsystems as well as a solid understanding of the consequences of a change." that's probably the point where you need to completely rewrite the entire program...
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>what exactly is drupal anyway?
09:15<andythenorth>heavyweight web content management framework
09:15<andythenorth>very successful in terms of user base
09:16<andythenorth>where I work, we don't use it
09:16<andythenorth>we use python frameworks which are much more rigorously managed (mostly by germans)
09:16<andythenorth>and far less popular
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10:14<confound>andythenorth: where do you work?
10:15<andythenorth>in a building :)
10:15<andythenorth>and sometimes in my garden
10:15<supermop>so frustrating
10:16<andythenorth>confound: I work in the UK. I look after three businesses, each of which could make me bankrupt at a moment's notice.
10:16<andythenorth>it's fun
10:16<confound>good times
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10:49<nathanael>hmmm - the update to vsphere 5.0 ... hmmm
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11:09*andythenorth has idea
11:09<andythenorth>add transparency toggles: 'accepts' / 'produces'
11:09<andythenorth>then use advanced varact 2 to show that in tile layouts
11:13<peter1139>and get loads of complaints that toggling it does nothing
11:14<andythenorth>well maybe it sucks as an idea :P
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>rather have an industry sign like a station sign...
11:18<andythenorth>not a bad idea
11:18<supermop>with little cargo icons?
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>cargo icons, or cargo short name, like in the station list
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11:23<andythenorth>maybe a mockup?
11:24<Rubidium>icons would be hard; they aren't part of the font... although as always with some trickery that could be achieved
11:27<Rubidium>although I wonder how you would show the incoming and outgoing cargos?
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11:27<Rubidium>a few before the name and a few after it?
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11:28<Eddi|zuHause><industry name> <incoming>/<outgoing>
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11:28<Eddi|zuHause>where either one could be "-" or a list of cargo short names (+ production level as background)
11:28<Rubidium>Halle Coal Mine /CO
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, "-/CO" in that case
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>or "ES/CO"
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11:30<Rubidium>now just hope they don't collide
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>collide how?
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>it's the job of the industry newgrf to make sure the short names are unique, right?
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>this incoming/outgoing cargo display could also be useful for station signs
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11:33<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: lets add fertiliser
11:33<Rubidium>abbreviating that to FE seems okay, right?
11:33<Rubidium>now switch to French
11:34<Rubidium>oopsie... collision
11:34<Rubidium>(with iron ore)
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i still don't see the problem
11:35<Rubidium>NewGRFs are barely translated
11:35<Rubidium>but... I think I found a nicer one
11:36<Rubidium>manufacturing supplies: MS seems reasonable, right? But French has MS for maize. So if you make a farm you get Foo Farm MS/MS, if you choose french and the NewGRF isn't translated
11:37<Rubidium>yes... it comes down to not having fully translated NewGRFs, but the number of translations of NewGRFs are significantly smaller than the number of translations of OpenTTD
11:37<andythenorth>I would make this bigger, using full names, possibly icons, more likely colours. And toggle it off most of the time
11:37<andythenorth>adding more small clutter or things you have to go figure out isn't so good :)
11:37<Rubidium>are there cargo icons?
11:37<andythenorth>used in station window
11:38<andythenorth>also colours (payment chart + cargo chains window)
11:39<Rubidium>oh, coloured sprites
11:40<Rubidium>that's even harder in texts
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: even if there are collisions, people can still click on the sign/industry and get the full name
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11:59<andythenorth>I should draw a mockup for you to point and laugh at
12:01<andythenorth>I saw it more as a list of 'in' 'out' with full cargo names, and a coloured rect next to them, similar to cargo payment chart
12:01<andythenorth>and then maybe yacd etc can do something clever with proportions in future :P
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12:01<andythenorth>to show supply / demand
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12:12<Ackmey>Hey if I destroy an airport and quickly replace it with another at the same spot, will the planes' orders carry over to the new one?
12:13<@Yexo>instead of having to be quick, connect a bus station to it first, than delete, than connect new airport with the bus station
12:13<Pinkbeast>To be absolutely sure, Ctrl-click while placing the new airport. This brings up a menu with "Place new airport" and the old airport, select the old airport
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>Ackmey: you have about a month before the old station sign disappears
12:13<Pinkbeast>... or do Yexo's much better idea
12:14<Ackmey>Is there anything special I have to do to connect the bus station or do I just pop it down next to the airport?
12:14<Pinkbeast>Just pop it down.
12:14<Ackmey>Thanks guys
12:15<Pinkbeast>Ctrl-clicking is usually used when a) you want to put a station tile next to an existing station but have it _not_ in the same station or b) when you want to construct a new bit of a station that's not touching the old station.
12:16<SpComb>boo, nontrivial merge from yacd 2.3 to newer trunk :(
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12:26<SpComb>how do you play a scenario with given set of NewGRFs x?
12:26<SpComb>you don't?
12:26<Ammler>enable scenario_developer
12:29<Ackmey>How does the autoreplace function work? I've set all my trains to get replaced but it doesn't seem to be happening
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12:30<Pinkbeast>It only happens when they go in a depot
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12:31<Pinkbeast>In theory even if you have breakdowns disabled and servicing off, trains with an autoreplace to be done should go to depots, but I have a feeling that doesn't work.
12:31<Ackmey>My trains are going to depots though for servicing
12:31<Ackmey>Not getting replaced
12:32<Ackmey>Even if I send them manually
12:32<Pinkbeast>Do you have $200,000?
12:32<Pinkbeast>There's a "disable autoreplace if not at least X amount of money" option
12:32<Ackmey>I've got 40 million
12:32<Pinkbeast>OK. Open the list of trains. Do you have any groups?
12:32<Ackmey>no groups
12:33<Pinkbeast>Select Replace Vehicles
12:33*Rubidium votes for "signal issue"
12:34<Pinkbeast>Select the vehicle you expect to be replaced from the lefthand list
12:35<Pinkbeast>Now, does it say "Stop Replacing Vehicles" at the bottom?
12:36<andythenorth>@seen pikka
12:36<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 11 hours, 22 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <pikka> poin mlanet
12:36<Ackmey>Yes it does
12:37<Pinkbeast>Huh, in that case a savegame might be necessary. That all sounds set up correctly.
12:38<Ackmey>Alright I'll give it a few mins in case
12:39<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22845 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#4745]: perform stricter checks on some commands (monoid)
12:41<Pinkbeast>OK, gimme a minute to take a look at that...
12:41<confound>breakdowns disabled and servicing off, trains do get autoreplaced. I've done it
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12:50*Pinkbeast grabs a new vanilla OTTD ahem
12:54<Pinkbeast>"Broken savegame, inconsistent size"
12:55<Pinkbeast>Which version of OTTD are you using?
12:57<Pinkbeast>Aha, it would help if I ran the version I just installed
12:59<Pinkbeast>I just sent train 1 to the depot. It autoreplaced.
12:59<Ackmey>Gahh what
12:59<Ackmey>I restarted the game I'll try again
12:59<Pinkbeast>I'm surprised you never built any A4s
13:00<Ackmey>Goddamn autoreplaced for me too. Maybe all i needed was to restart?
13:00<Ackmey>And a4s?
13:01<Pinkbeast>The so-called "Ginzu A4" available between the Jubilee and the 8P locomotives.
13:01<confound>it's a size of paper
13:02<Ackmey>Hm funno
13:03<Pinkbeast>Also in future games you may want to disable "allow trains to make 90 degree turns". It looks really ugly and often it's hard with that option on to stop trains taking unexpected routes
13:05<Ackmey>Okay sounds good
13:05<Ackmey>everything is pretty sloppy
13:07<Pinkbeast>If I were you I would also give thought to electrification
13:08<Pinkbeast>And/or using the Class 43... er, the "SH '125'" on passenger services, if you have any
13:08<Ackmey>Yeah I had electric trains lined up at first but I realized they weren't available from depots so I thought maybe that was the problem
13:08<Pinkbeast>You have to convert the depots and rails to electric
13:09<Ackmey>Oh youch
13:09<Ackmey>How do I do thaT?
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13:09<Pinkbeast>When you select railway construction, pulldown the menu to "Electrified railway construction"
13:10<Pinkbeast>Two to the right of the tunnel tool is the track conversion tool. You can drag out large areas with it (and with your budget, you might just do the entire map)
13:10<Pinkbeast>You'll also want to turn off the track transparency option that hides overhead wires.
13:11<Ackmey>if I do the rail conversion though I still need to do depots and stations manually?
13:11<Pinkbeast>Nope, the conversion tool does depots and stations
13:11<Ackmey>Will old trains run on electric rials/
13:12<Pinkbeast>Yes, just fine.
13:12<Pinkbeast>Conversely the conversion from elrails to monorail/maglev is a royal PITA
13:12<Pinkbeast>And you can electrify track under the running trains, even, so if you drag the conversion tool across the entire map it all works
13:13<Ackmey>i may just wait until my trains get old again to convert to electric seeing as they're all brand new
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13:13<confound>the trainsets I play with don't have monorail/maglev, and I'm not particularly sad to miss out on that conversion
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>man i have not played with original vehicles in ages
13:14<Pinkbeast>Well, bear in mind you get a percentage of the purchase cost of the replaced vehicle based on its age, so replacing a nearly-new locomotive isn't that costly.
13:14<Ackmey>Well I've got nothing to do with my money anyway
13:15<Ackmey>Oh it barely cost anything
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13:15<@Terkhen>sadly that's only a common issue ingame :)
13:16<Eddi|zuHause>Ackmey: the main cost of replacement is usually your disruption of service (few deliveries, dropping station rating, etc.)
13:17<Ackmey>Ah that makes sense
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>(traffic jam in places they would normally not visit)
13:17<Pinkbeast>Also I fear you're basically at the stage where money is irrelevant
13:20<Ackmey>Is there any way I can get more than two airports in one town?
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>yes and no, if you forgive the expression
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>you have to enable the option "noise control for airports"
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13:21<Pinkbeast>You could set up a feeder service with rail or busses to an airport outside the town's area
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>then small towns will allow fewer airports, while big cities will allow more
13:22<Pinkbeast> # at this point it may start to strike you that non-cargod*st treatment of passengers is a bit silly
13:22<Ackmey>Yeah a town is essentially just another industry
13:24<Ackmey>I'll just set up a feeder bus station
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13:38<Ackmey>Will bus stations get overcrowded if I have too many going back and forth?
13:44-!-Lakie` is now known as Lakie
13:44<Pinkbeast>Well, passengers don't (in vanilla) go back and forth as such.
13:45<confound>yes, bus stations can be clogged by too many buses
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22846 /trunk/src/lang/ (dutch.txt italian.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
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13:46<Pinkbeast>Oh, wait, you mean overcrowded with busses. If you build a set of drivethrough stops in a row it has quite a high capacity
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14:55<andythenorth>salami one month past use-by date
14:55<andythenorth>safe to eat?
14:56<@Terkhen>probably not
14:56<@Terkhen>but I have eaten worse :P
14:56<@planetmaker>salami != salami
14:56<andythenorth>it tastes ok
14:56<andythenorth>it looks ok
14:57<@planetmaker>if it's a nice smoked one, totally not juicy, but rather a club-like consistency... then rather yes ;-)
14:57<andythenorth>I mean it's been dried for months during production right?
14:57<@planetmaker>if it's that kind: probably safe :-)
14:58<andythenorth>I'm going to eat it
14:58<andythenorth>if I die, you'll have to finish FIRS without me
14:58<peter1139>but clubs are chocolate bars
14:58<andythenorth>it's a bit slimy
14:58<andythenorth>is that bad?
14:58<@planetmaker>you won't die from food poisoning so easily. You'll just severly regret having eaten it ;-)
14:58<frosch123>unless it is grey and frowsty, it should be fine
14:59<andythenorth>it's good to get food poisoning every 5 years or so
14:59<@Terkhen>if it does not walk or talk, you won't die from eating it
14:59<@planetmaker>green is also bad ;-)
14:59<andythenorth>reminds you how nice it is not to have food poisoning
14:59<andythenorth>this actually tastes better than when it was opened
15:00<andythenorth>has anyone eaten corsican copa? That's quite intense
15:01*andythenorth advances from salami to chorizo
15:01<andythenorth>there is no beer here
15:01<andythenorth>and it is raining
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15:05*Zuu wonders what to do
15:05<Zuu>I could possible even fix the bugs in OTTDAU if it wasnt that I don't have any legal access to the compiler except for my old computers where I got turbo delphi.
15:05<andythenorth>wine is quite like beer? There is wine here
15:06<Zuu>I guess I should get around to fix the bug some day...
15:06<@planetmaker>I'd not subscribe to that statement. But they can fulfil a common purpose
15:06*peter1139 noms on 99p steak
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15:09<andythenorth>beer is tastier than wine
15:09*andythenorth drinks wine
15:09<peter1139>it is
15:09<peter1139>i've not properly had beer for 2 years ;(
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15:11*Zuu continues on his human OpenTTD game
15:11<@planetmaker>hm... OpenTTD is actually something which can be played...?
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15:15<andythenorth>planetmaker: FMSP :P
15:16<@planetmaker>yes, lovely picture of it :-)
15:17<frosch123>cool two guys in this channel playing at a tmie :p
15:17<andythenorth>people play it?
15:17<andythenorth>how odd
15:18<frosch123>well, i do not use firs :p
15:19<@planetmaker>heretic! ;-)
15:19-!-douknoukem [] has joined #openttd
15:19<frosch123>would like suck if i would :p
15:19*frosch123 plays 128x256 on mountainious
15:19<@planetmaker>that *can* work. But barely, I fear
15:21<@Terkhen>good luck :P
15:21<andythenorth>frosch123: FIRS won't fit there :P
15:22<@Terkhen>lots of rivers too? :)
15:22<andythenorth>*if* industries could terraform would be ok
15:22<frosch123>nope, i started the game shortly before that
15:23<frosch123>*if* someone would write a good spec for specifying slope layouts, it would likely be easy to implement
15:24*andythenorth wonders if we can extend layout definitions
15:24<andythenorth>with some extra bytes
15:24<andythenorth>and bit stuff slope requirements into them
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15:25<andythenorth>so to be clear
15:25<andythenorth>this would attempt *terraform* to precisely a specified shape?
15:26<andythenorth>no either / or / if / but stuff
15:26<frosch123>i wondered about assigning building numbers to tiles. where every building id has a consitent height refernce, while other buildings can be at different height
15:26*andythenorth puzzles
15:27<frosch123>i.e. a fixed slope for a group of tiles, but multiple of such groups which can vary in height between them
15:27<@planetmaker>that might be an interesting idea and allow for fun stuff
15:27<frosch123>i.e. every building of the industry is on flat land, but there can be slopes and foundations between the buildings
15:27*andythenorth gets it
15:27<@planetmaker>Additionally the auto-terraform would be a good complement
15:27<andythenorth>currently I think FIRS mostly refuses to terraform
15:28<andythenorth>as we use cb2f
15:28<@planetmaker>yup, 80% surely
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>auto-terraform can only make things completely flat
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>i don't see a sane way to make it do something different...
15:29<andythenorth>start from the N tile, specify +1, 0, -1 per corner
15:29<andythenorth>the only real case for it though is quarries and open pit mines
15:29<andythenorth>there's nothing else that really needs it
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>and if you want "don't care" or "+2 to +4" values?
15:29<andythenorth>"don't care" is not valid
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>it is, if you want a foundation anyway
15:29<andythenorth>at +2 you're going to need foundations
15:30<andythenorth>foundations aren't valid for the cases I can think of (or george or pikka have found afaik)
15:30<frosch123>andythenorth: instead of corner heights i would rather go for tile slopes
15:30<andythenorth>valid imho
15:30<andythenorth>but really the only case is quarries, so is it tmwftlb?
15:30<frosch123>every tile specifies a surface slope or "don't care" as well as "foundation allowed"
15:30<@planetmaker>why only quarries?
15:31<frosch123>which might include inclined foundations as well
15:31<andythenorth>planetmaker: because it's not necessary for other industries
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: what i mean is: whichever way you come up with, it's either difficult/tedious to specify or you will find someone that says "but i need XYZ and i can't do it"
15:31<andythenorth>they're wrong
15:31<frosch123>andythenorth: it is necessary for your huge processing industries
15:31<andythenorth>I guess it is actually
15:31<andythenorth>given that we disallowed them levelling their own plateau :P
15:32<@planetmaker>it would help tremendously - and look even better, if used properly
15:32<andythenorth>it would be nice - no argument there
15:32<andythenorth>but nice != necessary?
15:33<andythenorth>anyway, I'm not arguing *against* it
15:34<andythenorth>george is creating a quarry that adapts itself to nearly all existing slopes
15:34<andythenorth>I've seen a picture, it's quite awesome
15:34*frosch123 saw it ingame
15:34<frosch123>because of bugreport :p
15:36<@planetmaker>:-) It looks nice, yes
15:37<frosch123>btw. i am disappointed... still nobody reported the bug i recently added :p
15:38<frosch123>well, monday, so no weekend yet
15:39*andythenorth wonders if the salami was unwise idea
15:39<frosch123>ohoh, throwing up?
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15:42<andythenorth>it would have to be pretty toxic to react that fast
15:45<andythenorth>Rubidium: FWIW, a friend of mine - dedicated linux user - has been pricing new high-spec laptops
15:46<andythenorth>at uk prices, he can't find anything cheaper than a mac
15:46<andythenorth>make of that what you will :P
15:46<andythenorth>he will have to bin the OS of course
15:46<frosch123>andythenorth: fwiw, rb is on vacation :P
15:46<andythenorth>he'll miss out on that fruit flavoured advice
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16:09<andythenorth>any clues on this?
16:10*Alberth has no clues to offer
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16:13<frosch123>we already talked about that, but i still did not write a wiki page explaining that
16:13<frosch123>sprites may not extent the vertical axes at the left and right corner of the tile
16:15<frosch123>and not the horizontal axis at the bottom corner, and not the one at about 100 pixels above the top corner
16:15<frosch123>i.e. imagine a big house on every tile, and nothing from the spritelayout on that tile may extent the house borders
16:15<frosch123>independent of any bounding boxes
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>afair it was 256 pixels above the top
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>you may draw there, but it may glitch when scrolling the tile out of view
16:17<frosch123>we are talking about exactly those glitches
16:17<frosch123>255 pixels in the maximum height of any sprite due to the grf format
16:17<andythenorth>so it's the boats?
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>not 512?
16:18<frosch123>sprites are generally limited to 31px to the left, 36px to the right, 122px to the top and 32px to the bottom of the north corner of a tile
16:18<frosch123>(maybe those values are off by a few pixels)
16:19<andythenorth>so the boats that exceed the bounding box are the issue
16:19<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: bytes tend to have values between 0 and 255
16:19<frosch123>andythenorth: yes, they extent the tile borders to the left and right
16:19<frosch123>(independent of boundnig boxes)
16:19<andythenorth>easily fixed
16:19<andythenorth>I hope...
16:20<frosch123>different cutting
16:20<andythenorth>I can update the boats anyway, they got redrawn in FISH
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17:03<@planetmaker>good night
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18:03<@Terkhen>good night
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22:07<bobingabout>anyone alive in here?
22:08<bobingabout>know anything about SDL?
22:08<Pinkbeast>I eagerly await the connection to OTTD
22:14<bobingabout>fine... better question does anyone know where i should go to ask questions about SDL?
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22:25<bobingabout>so what does openTTD use for graphics?
22:26<+glx>depends on OS
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22:33<bobingabout>does it use SDL?
22:34-!-bobingabout [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
22:35<+glx>on linux it does
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22:36<pjpe>that guy doesn't know it
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22:56<pjpe>damn i wish there was a game where you could build stuff like that
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23:32<pjpe>what happens if i load like 10 town newgrfs at once
23:33<pjpe>do i get a mix of them or does only one of them work
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23:56<goldshadow>hi everyone
23:56<goldshadow>im looking how to make a dedi server so i can play multiplayer with my friend
---Logclosed Sat Aug 27 00:00:50 2011