Back to Home / #openttd / 2011 / 08 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-08-31

---Logopened Wed Aug 31 00:00:19 2011
00:02-!-Mks [] has joined #openttd
00:05-!-DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has joined #openttd
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
01:43-!-Cybertinus [] has joined #openttd
02:11-!-Prof_Frink [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:20-!-Br33z4hSlut5 [] has joined #openttd
02:31-!-Neon [] has joined #openttd
02:34-!-TheHog [] has joined #openttd
02:35<TheHog>Hi there. I released a patch yesterday for the feature-request/bug at Could someone test the patch and maybe insert it at mainstream?
02:36<TheHog>The patch makes feeding much better. It checks if cargo that is being loaded isn't being transfered back to a station it has been pickuped earlier.
02:38<TheHog>for a quick try I have release a win32 and x64 .exe at:
03:02<@Yexo>TheHog: your patch doesn't apply cleanly to r22858
03:05<TheHog>Yexo: on top of 1.1.2
03:05<@Yexo>TheHog: but new patches are only accepted against trunk (=last svn revision)
03:05<pjpe>yeah don't do that
03:05<TheHog>ah ok fine
03:06<TheHog>I will update the patch later this day then
03:06<@Yexo>in case of bug fixes they get backported to the stable branch later
03:06<TheHog>didn't knew that
03:06<@Yexo>no problem
03:06<@Yexo>as for your request to close the task in the bug tracker: the task will be closed as soon as a fix is applied to trunk
03:07<TheHog>ok great
03:07<@Yexo>if I were to close it because a patch was available that patch would be forgotten
03:11<@Terkhen>good morning
03:17<@Terkhen>hi planetmaker
03:17<@Yexo>good morning :)
03:18<@Terkhen>hi :P
03:23<@planetmaker>hello Terkhen, hello Yexo :-)
03:34-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has joined #openttd
03:43-!-Belugas [~belugas@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:44-!-Belugas [~belugas@] has joined #openttd
03:44-!-mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
04:43-!-DayDreamer [~DayDreame@] has left #openttd []
04:51-!-Adambean [] has joined #openttd
04:52<TheHog>Yexo: I managed to update the patch to fit in r22858:
04:52<TheHog>could you have a try again?
04:53<@Yexo>it's common to make patches against trunk/, not against trunk/src/
04:54<@Yexo>doesn't matter now, but it'd make it easier for next time :)
04:54<TheHog>ok for next time then :)
04:58<@planetmaker>TheHog: your patch inserts a number of pointless new lines
04:58<@planetmaker>one even being a separate hunk
04:59<TheHog>hmm ok.. sorry for that
04:59<@planetmaker>+ bool ContainsStation(StationID station) const; <-- uses space instead of tab for indentation
04:59<TheHog>long time I have done this much programming :)
04:59<@planetmaker>actually... you use a lot of space for indentation
05:00<@planetmaker>we indent with tabs
05:00<TheHog>is visual c++ the cause?
05:01<@planetmaker>it would do it consistently ;-)
05:02<TheHog>I'll check that next time :)
05:02<@Yexo>TheHog: a trick often used to keep ratings up is to have one truck both loading and unloading at the same station
05:02<@Yexo>your patch breaks that behavior
05:03<@Yexo>because the cargo is not unloaded anymore
05:03<@Yexo>since it's one station, the origin is the same as the destination
05:04-!-fjb is now known as Guest7966
05:04-!-fjb [] has joined #openttd
05:04<@Yexo>cp->loaded_at_xy != 0 && GetStationIndex(cp->loaded_at_xy) == data <- this check is not correct
05:04<TheHog>ah ok.. you mean when fe. loading passengers from a station and then unload the same passengers there again?
05:04<pjpe>that doesn't seem like much of a trick
05:04<@Yexo>since stations can be moved you can't rely on the original tile
05:04<@Yexo>TheHog: yes, exactly
05:05<TheHog>hmm that would be a trick indeed :)
05:05-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
05:05<TheHog>Yexo: i could insert a loaded_at_id .. would that be better you think?
05:06<@planetmaker>going by stationID is better than station_xy
05:07<TheHog>planetmaker: ok then... I can expand the structure of the cargopacket with loaded_at_id then
05:07<@Yexo>inserting more data in cargopackets might not be a good idea
05:07-!-Xaroth [] has joined #openttd
05:07<@Yexo>there are _a lot_ of cargopackets in big games
05:07<@Terkhen>any change to cargopackets should be profiled thoroughly :)
05:08<TheHog>or remove loaded_at_xy and replace it with ID, and then do the feeder-cash-thing calculating with the getlocation from id?
05:08<@planetmaker>another approach for transfer + load + avoid loading same cargo packets could be to (temporarily) store the cargopacket IDs
05:08<TheHog>that will break proper calculating of the cash if the station is moved meanwhile.. but that does not seem to be a great problem?
05:09<TheHog>loaded_at_xy is only used in feeding situations (transfers)
05:10-!-Guest7966 [~frank@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:13<TheHog>planetmaker: that would require all vehicle in same feeding-stage to remember the cargopacket id's
05:13<CIA-2>OpenTTD: terkhen * r22859 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix: Add missing : in slope steepness strings. (monoid)
05:13-!-pjpe [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
05:14<TheHog>you don't want another bus to pick up passengers at for example an airport which a bus before him just dropped of at the airport
05:14<@planetmaker>TheHog: much less memory impact than changing cargo packets
05:14<@planetmaker>but yes, what you describe might happen
05:15<TheHog>let me try to remove loaded_at_xy and replace it with loaded_at_id
05:15<TheHog>will get back with that later this day :)
05:15<@Yexo>TheHog: I've also seen the "trick" I mentioned earlier used with two stations
05:15<@Yexo>the main problem being: however you implement this, you'll break the old "valid" use case
05:16<TheHog>it could be a option which could be set in the settings menu?
05:16<@Yexo>so since it cannot be implemented properly, I'm not sure if it should be implemented at all before cargod*st
05:16<@planetmaker>that's the big question :-)
05:17<TheHog>I'm sure a lot of people would like to see this changed.. feeders are not working properly without it
05:17<@Yexo>with cargod*st we'd get the fix for free, and without we'll always have complains no matter the current behavior or when including a fix
05:17<@Yexo>feeders are working properly, but not as some people want
05:17<@Yexo>the only thing that doesn't work is two-way feeders
05:17<TheHog>or multiple :)
05:17<@Yexo>or feeding a cargo and loading from that station at the same time
05:18<@Yexo>basically whenever you use "transfer cargo" you should also use "no loading" to make it work properly
05:19<TheHog>but do you agree on making it a (by default disabled?) option
05:20<@Yexo>I'm not convinced we need (yet another) option for it
05:21<@planetmaker>"transfer and leave empty" is the default anyway
05:21<@Yexo>I'm not totally against it, but I won't commit a patch for it
05:23<TheHog>that would disappoint me
05:23<TheHog>the guys whom I told I have the patch for it started using openttd again
05:24<@Yexo>TheHog: you might be able to convince planetmaker or Terkhen of the need for it
05:25<TheHog>and then again, the trick you mention is using a bug in my perspective
05:26<@Terkhen>I have not been paying much attention, let me reread everything
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>one person's bug is another person's feature
05:26<@Terkhen>I'm lacking context, is there a flyspray task for this?
05:26<TheHog>Terkhen: small recap, I made a patch to be able to create multiple-hop-feeding
05:27<@planetmaker>a wisdom easily learnt in the OpenTTD domain, Eddi|zuHause :-)
05:27<@Yexo>TheHog: now consider this: you have stations A, B and C. Coal is collected from multiple mines and send to A or B (whichever is closest). All coal from A is transfered to B. From B it's send to the final destination C
05:27<@planetmaker>multi-hop works already. Just not two-way
05:27<@Yexo>... not finished yet
05:28<@Yexo>the powerplant at C closes down, you notice this, build a new station D at another power plant (close to A). You change the trans between A and B to transfer from B to A and build new trains to transport from A to the new final destination D
05:28<@Terkhen>but that's what YACD/cargodist do
05:28<@Yexo>the cargo that had piled up at B (because C closed down) will now not be transported back to A
05:28<@Terkhen>any solution you do for this issue will need to take into account a future destination patch
05:28<@Yexo>which is what I would consider a bug
05:28<@planetmaker>hm... good (or bad) example, Yexo :-)
05:29<@Yexo>so introducing your "fix" introduces a new "bug"
05:29<@Yexo>Terkhen: with any destinations patch applied the problem is gone
05:30<@Terkhen>we want a destination patch too, and it would solve this issue too
05:30<@Terkhen>if we add a different fix for this issue, that will complicate future destination patches
05:30<TheHog>Yexo: true.. you would need a vehicle not having A in the order list .. let me think..
05:32<@Yexo>TheHog: it can be worked around by transfering the goods from B to C first, than from C directly to A (if there was track between C and A)
05:32<@Yexo>or from B to D directly (again, if there is track between B and D)
05:32<TheHog>yep but I agree that would confuse users also
05:32<@Yexo>and it's not even easily possible if the connection between A and B was by ship while the rest was by train
05:33<@planetmaker>not being able to pickup cargo sometimes IMHO is worse than the clear statement "transfer doesn't work two-ways"
05:33<@planetmaker>thus IMHO yexo's argument with the changed destination and route is somewhat a killer argument
05:34<@planetmaker>it's a bug which sometimes is not obvious at all why it would appear
05:34<TheHog>Yexo: a quick thinking,.. would it be better to 'timeout' the cargo in my case? if it is there for couple of days, then let it be able to pick up again?
05:34<@planetmaker>given a cargo might transfer over 5 or 6 stations
05:35<@Yexo>TheHog: yes, that'd solve the problem, but it'd be impossible to communicate that to the average user
05:35<TheHog>i agree
05:35<TheHog>but still i'm sure a lot of people would like to see 2-way feeders without cargodst
05:36<TheHog>let me rethink later this day,.. have to do some work again :)
05:36<TheHog>l8rs guys
05:42-!-pugi [] has joined #openttd
05:48-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:53-!-ashb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:57-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
06:10-!-MNIM [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:16-!-valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
06:16-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:24-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
06:24-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
06:30-!-lessthanthree [] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by queer]
06:36-!-valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:39<peter1139>1139 oclock!
06:40-!-peter1139 is now known as peter1138
06:43-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
06:49-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
06:51<fjb>Hmmm, 1138 opeter...
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>so... i put a HD on an IDE port, and the DVD disappeared...
06:55<Eddi|zuHause>probably need to check jumpers/cables
06:56-!-Adambean [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:01<fjb>Every slave needs a Master. And two Masters have a conflict because they try to dominate each other. IDE drives are so simple to understand.
07:01<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: modern systems work with cable select
07:01-!-MNIM [] has joined #openttd
07:02-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
07:02<fjb>Even then you have a Master and a slave. And I have seen cableselect fail. So set the jumpers and you are sure which is which.
07:02<Eddi|zuHause>whatever... the DVD is not critical ;)
07:04<fjb>Noise on the wire can be critical...
07:09-!-ashb [] has joined #openttd
07:09-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:09-!-ashb [] has quit []
07:10-!-ashb [] has joined #openttd
07:10-!-HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>what's a .TIB file?
07:29<fjb>Its something that acronis creates.
07:36-!-fjb is now known as Guest7978
07:36-!-Guest7978 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:36-!-fjb [~frank@] has joined #openttd
07:36-!-Progman [] has quit [Quit: Progman]
07:37-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
08:22-!-Xaroth [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:26-!-Xaroth [] has joined #openttd
08:33-!-TWerkhoven [] has joined #openttd
08:42-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d0f1:a0b1:9454:9c31] has joined #openttd
08:42-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
08:55-!-Neon [] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
08:58-!-jpx_ [] has joined #openttd
08:58-!-jpx_ [] has quit []
08:58-!-jpx_ [] has joined #openttd
08:59-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has quit []
09:31-!-Br33z4hSlut5 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:50-!-Kurimus [] has joined #openttd
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>fjb: so i suppose that is something proprietary that i can't possibly open without paying for the program...
09:53-!-fjb [~frank@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:00-!-KouDy [] has joined #openttd
10:30-!-Pulec [] has joined #openttd
10:34-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has joined #openttd
11:26-!-LordAro [] has joined #openttd
11:26<LordAro>good morrow
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>i wish cp had some kind of progress report
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>cp, as in copy.
11:39<__ln__>damn, i would have wanted to take a beginners' course on dutch, but my university doesn't offer any dutch anymore.
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>just take english and german, and interpolate the intermediate :p
11:40<@Yexo>you're better of just talking english :p
11:41<__ln__>dat iist was ik maache.
11:42<__ln__>so english word in that case :)
11:42<@Yexo>and s/iist/is/ and the rest is correct
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>that's interesting, because germans try to avoid the word "tun"
11:48<TrueBrain> <- OpenTTD Gource Visualisation :D
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>a new one?
11:49<TrueBrain>I know of no old one, so no
11:52<TheHog>Yexo: i'm now looking at the patch again,... however the trick you mentioned is already being blocked in the trunk as I understand
11:52<TheHog>if (cp->source == data && mta == MTA_FINAL_DELIVERY) { /* Skip cargo that originated from this station. */++it; continue; }
11:54<TheHog>or don't I understand the trick correctly?
11:55<@Yexo>mta == MTA_FINAL_DELIVERY <- it's not final delivery, it's using transfer orders
11:55<LordAro>Truebrain: old version:
11:55<LordAro>this vid looks pretty epic too though :)
11:56<TheHog>Yexo: could you explain that?
11:56<TheHog>using transfer orders would never deliver the cargo so why would that raise the ratings?
11:56<TrueBrain>LordAro: you linking the right topic?
11:57<TrueBrain>"BRits Breakthrough Artist"
11:57<@Yexo>TheHog: see the road vehicle in this test game:
11:57<@Yexo>and see for how the station rating works
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: are you clicking on the right link?
11:57<TheHog>ok brb
11:58<@Yexo>it's not dependent on delivery at all, just regular pickup
11:58<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: doubt it ....
11:58<LordAro>Truebrain: link in first post *by 0rudge ;) )
11:58<TheHog>Yexo: so you just tranfers cargo back and forward?
11:58<TrueBrain>but I guess you refer to DVs video, which is _really_ old, and should not be considered in a question: a new one?
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>just admit that you have no memory :p
11:59<TheHog>hmm can't open the save game with 1.1.2 :) let me compile the trunk first
11:59<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I refuse to state known facts
12:00<@Yexo>^^ after saying that a few times you can't say it anymore
12:03<LordAro>Truebrain: you even have 2nd post! ;)
12:03<TrueBrain>something to worry about when that happens :D
12:03<LordAro>oh, and your vid needs a soundtrack :)
12:03<TrueBrain>hmm, what to do about youtube not liking the first few seconds ...
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>looks like missing I-frame in the beginning
12:04<LordAro>...and i need a computer that'll be able to render in 720p, so i can watch it properly..
12:04<TheHog>Yexo: can't find the grf that is used in the game
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>and the people making commits jump around quite fast, so you can hardly recognize their names as they fly by
12:05<@Yexo>sorry, you have to compile that yourself too :p
12:05-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has quit []
12:05<@Yexo>let me create another savegame
12:05-!-Hyronymus [] has joined #openttd
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: the old video had annotations like current release or major feature being worked on at that time
12:06<TheHog>but basically it is just transfering cargo back and forward to up the rating?
12:06<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: good for him :P
12:06-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
12:08<Eddi|zuHause>just saying, there's room for improval :)
12:08<@Yexo>TheHog: new savegame, same link
12:09<TrueBrain>soget to work Eddi|zuHause :P
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>i am working-ish...
12:09<TrueBrain>I am rendering a 1080 video :P
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>i have 6 cores, so i might be able to render that in realtime :)
12:10<TrueBrain>I can :)
12:10-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has joined #openttd
12:11<TheHog>Yexo: ic
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>my bandwidth converges towards 0 though... i'm still not done downloading the youtube video
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>[download] 63.1% of 42.35M at 20.35k/s ETA 13:06
12:12<TrueBrain>my version is 700MiB :P
12:12<TheHog>Yexo: and that raises the station rating? just by the rule of 'Days since last cargo pickup' i guess?
12:12<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: and I uploaded that faster than you are downloading that :P
12:13-!-staN [] has joined #openttd
12:13-!-staN [] has quit []
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: that is absolutely no surprise...
12:13<TheHog>Yexo: to make sure the station is visited often
12:13<TheHog>ok i understand..
12:13<TheHog>let me see if I can work around this trick :)
12:14<@Yexo>the more proper way is to always have a new train loading, but when trains are very expensive this helps
12:14<TheHog>but I still agree that this is somewhat misusing a bug :)
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>in cargod*st i use this trick to keep rating up at transfer stations
12:14<TheHog>in the real world this would be very stupid :)
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>well, the proper solution would be someone using callback 145 to never let the rating drop below 50%
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>but nobody has figured out how to use that callback yet...
12:16<TheHog>or are you just fucking with me right now :)
12:18<TheHog>hmm puzzled
12:20<TheHog>ok ic... not needed for my feeding patch thingy
12:24-!-pugi [] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own]
12:31-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
12:31-!-Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
12:50-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
12:50<andythenorth>Terkhen: pcx -> png conversion is really trivial
12:50<andythenorth>I'll do it sometime soon
12:51<andythenorth>probably not before 0.7.0 release though as it could introduce bugs
12:51<@planetmaker>in principle one could just convert pcx->png
12:52<@planetmaker>then it's independent of source file changes
12:54<andythenorth>that's what I'd do
12:54<andythenorth>it's a simple batch convert using photoshop or other app
12:54<andythenorth>then find+replace in source
12:55<andythenorth>I'll ticket it for future release
12:55<andythenorth>it's ticketed :)
12:56-!-KouDy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:57-!-KouDy [] has joined #openttd
12:58<@planetmaker>well... IMHO it could be done now, if it's a simple batch job for you
12:59<@planetmaker>it'd help some people building it
12:59<@planetmaker>and make a translator happy ;-)
12:59<andythenorth>ok maybe I'll do it
12:59<andythenorth>not likely tonight
13:00<@Terkhen>trivial but tedious :)
13:00<andythenorth>not really
13:00<andythenorth>prior to png support, my workflow was psd -> export png -> batch convert to png
13:00<@planetmaker>Terkhen: both can be batched
13:00<andythenorth>so hardly any effort
13:01<@planetmaker>sed -i.bak "s/\.pcx/.png/ sprites/nml/industries/*.pnml sprites/nml/*.pnml
13:01-!-Neon [] has joined #openttd
13:01<andythenorth>I'll do it now
13:01<@planetmaker>and with the proper parameters it could also be done by gimp script, irfanview script or imagemagic script
13:07<andythenorth>I guess nml updated :P
13:08<andythenorth>planetmaker: I'm pushing the pngs now, but I have to go - I haven't done F+R on the code
13:08<andythenorth>possibly there might be palette issues, unlikely, but possible
13:09<andythenorth>I'll bbl
13:09-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
13:09<TrueBrain>and I am rendering a better 1080p movie :D
13:09<LordAro>Truebrain: still needs a soundtrack :P
13:13<TrueBrain>ugh, sound is overrated
13:13<LordAro>don't like watching videos in silence
13:14<TrueBrain>I rarely have audio routed from firefox to my audio system :P
13:14<TrueBrain>but first I am going to finish rendering this new version, as it seems to solve the stupid issue at the start
13:14<TrueBrain>sadly ... I just hit Jan 2007 :D
13:17<TrueBrain>for some reason I am only rendering at 7 fps :P
13:17<peter1138> can't reach my * box apparently :S
13:19<TrueBrain>it is pretty kewl, you see a branch being created and a developer running towards it , while the trunk keeps getting a high rate of changes :P
13:20<TrueBrain>and you can see branch syncs very nicely :D
13:21-!-Adambean [] has joined #openttd
13:22<TrueBrain>especially the NoAI branch and merge is very clear :)
13:26-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
13:28-!-|Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
13:31<TrueBrain>owh, just 500 MiB. Pompiedom
13:32-!-LordAro [] has quit [Quit: "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."]
13:33-!-LordAro [] has joined #openttd
13:34<LordAro>..loving linux reboot times :)
13:34<TrueBrain>linux? reboot? wuth?
13:35<LordAro>flash crashed completely..., i had to
13:35<LordAro>+ i was runnign out of memory
13:35<TrueBrain>kills some apps!
13:35<LordAro>stupid slow computer
13:43-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
13:43-!-andythenorth [] has left #openttd []
13:44-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22860 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 4 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: serbian - 3 changes by etran
13:48<TrueBrain>new upload: (yes Eddi|zuHause, this time it is a new one :p)
13:48-!-pjpe [] has joined #openttd
13:49<andythenorth>planetmaker: unless you're working on it - I can now finish the png conversion ;)
13:52<@Terkhen>that video looks nice :P
13:52*Terkhen wonders what music to play while watching it
13:52*TrueBrain waits for 720 and 1080 to show up ...
13:53<andythenorth>can anyone test FIRS build on windows (now that pcx is removed)
13:53<@Terkhen>I'll wait too, I can barely see the names right now :P
13:53<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I can't, I ended up installing everything on windows too
13:54<__ln__>Terkhen: how about:
13:54<@planetmaker>I'm not working on anything on FIRS right now
13:54*Terkhen stopped using spotify
13:56<andythenorth>all pcx now gone from FIRS
13:56<@Terkhen>nice :)
13:57<__ln__>Terkhen: what's wrong with spotify?
13:57<TrueBrain>Terkhen: yeah, I guess I could boost the font-size a bit :p
13:58<TrueBrain>meh; not going to re-render :p
13:58<LordAro>Truebrain: note it down for next time then :P
13:58<@Terkhen>__ln__: I prefer to expend my not very abundant cash somewhere else
13:59<@Terkhen>TrueBrain: don't bother for this version, I think it will look better with 1080 :)
13:59<TrueBrain>right ,720 and 1080 available ..
13:59<andythenorth>what is better than spotifiifyf for spending money on?
13:59-!-Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
13:59<@Terkhen>andythenorth: games :P
14:00<andythenorth>my game is free :P
14:00<@Terkhen>yes, I can see names now with 1080
14:01<@Terkhen>signde... I never heard that name before
14:02<TrueBrain>long long long ago
14:02<TrueBrain>long long long
14:02<TrueBrain>wrote the console
14:02<@Terkhen>and for a short time it seems
14:02<@Terkhen>oh :)
14:02*andythenorth wonders where the commits for roadtypes are in that visualisation :(
14:03<TrueBrain>the most obvious visuals are MiniIN and NoAI branch
14:03*andythenorth observes a law of nature: the more you prod a peter1138, the less code they produce :P
14:03<@Terkhen>future version of the video created in 2030
14:04<frosch123>that video shows that branches are no longer state of the art :)
14:04<@Terkhen>with virtual reality graphics and stuff
14:05<TrueBrain>feel free to post it on the forums or what-ever :P
14:05<andythenorth>it seems weird to see these communist trains running in the US of A:
14:09<__ln__>is that the station building on the left?
14:09-!-|Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:11<@Terkhen>posted :P
14:15<Zuu>Yexo: Have you started on the patch?
14:16<andythenorth>frosch123: you were going to teach me how to play with rivers?
14:28<frosch123>hmm, we need flat docks
14:30<V453000>hehe :)
14:30<frosch123>docks and depots block the whole river, i have to build canals for them
14:31<V453000>I guess wider rivers would be a pain to make eh
14:32<frosch123>i think they would look weird for a start
14:32<V453000>well they could grow in size :)
14:36<pjpe>are rivers always only one tile wide
14:37<pjpe>i think that makes it look kinda weird
14:37<pjpe>that they're always one tile wide and on flat land
14:37<pjpe>never sunk a bit
14:38<peter1138>at least one tile wide
14:38*Zuu got lucky that hg gives better line endings than svn, but still gives some changes that has to be manually reverted.
14:38<peter1138>but a tile is the base unit, so, that makes sense
14:39<pjpe>like the water on the left
14:40<Zuu>Maybe a commit of ai_instance.cpp should be made that only "updates" the file so it looks like how it does when it is auto-generated.
14:42<frosch123> <- i need to build canals and hills for docks and depots :p
14:42<@Belugas>a river does not automatically creates a valley where it can flow. erosion is a long process. plus... why would you want to have it "sunken" ? ho.. no... don't tell me, please... don't wanna know actually...
14:43<__ln__>slopes in rivers are barely noticeable
14:43<pjpe>because the river on the left looks natural
14:43<pjpe>the one the game generates is kinda staticy
14:44<frosch123> <- are they?
14:44<@Belugas>the game gfenereates new rivers :)
14:44<frosch123>we should replace the river slopes with waterfalls, so it becomes more obvious they are not traversable
14:46<@Belugas>agreed :)
14:46<frosch123>hmm, it needs ten years for those ships to pay off :s
14:46<frosch123>the route is too short
14:46<@Belugas>i won't invest in your company
14:47<Zuu>Yexo: I've now made a patch (NoAI support for r22858):
14:48<@Belugas>buwhahahaa.... i removed a tiny piece of wood stuck in my finger, the girl i train just fainted!
14:48<@Belugas>poor little thing :)
14:49<frosch123>does not sound like programming :)
14:55<andythenorth>frosch123: you're playing with opengfx? in ttd original-style graphics, river rapids have rocks...
14:56<andythenorth>and yes, you need to build canals for depots and docks
14:56<andythenorth>which is annoyink
14:56<andythenorth>but 'realistic'
14:58<andythenorth>oh're using 'original' graphics :o
14:58<andythenorth>the slopes are quite obvious imo
14:58<andythenorth>the big, deep 'rivers' could be done if terragen could be taught to make fjords
14:59<andythenorth>I tried, but I'm not smart enough
14:59<andythenorth>the river tiles don't need all that stuff
15:01<frosch123>now using steam trams to transfer stuff from mines to the sea
15:02<@planetmaker>andythenorth: in OpenGFX river rapids have rocks, too
15:02<@planetmaker>longer than TTD actually ;-)
15:03<andythenorth>frosch123: any time you see a river, build a railroad :P
15:04<frosch123>oh, i still had the original pathfinder activated
15:05-!-pugi [] has joined #openttd
15:05<frosch123>and i has 90° turns disabled
15:06<frosch123>ships have a hard time turning around on rivers
15:16<frosch123>ok, ships pay off on 4 years now
15:16<frosch123>that should be better
15:19<frosch123>and ships always generate a "ship is lost" message when they are forced to reverse :p
15:19-!-TWerkhoven [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:26<frosch123>trains are more flexible than ships :p
15:26<frosch123>you can just attach or remove some wagons to change capacity
15:27-!-JVassie [~James@] has joined #openttd
15:29<Zuu>tug boat + those floatation things that work like wagons? :-)
15:30<Zuu>I gues FISH have them as refit option.
15:31<andythenorth>the crowd voted them out
15:31<andythenorth>the FISH tugboats are mostly coded and mostly drawn, but I'm sulking about releasing them
15:31<andythenorth>due to idiots
15:33-!-Mucht [] has joined #openttd
15:41<andythenorth>JVassie: the tugboats aren't realistic
15:41<andythenorth>I should grow up
15:42<andythenorth>and get over myself
15:42*JVassie hugs andythenorth
15:42<andythenorth>umm thanks
15:42-!-perk11 [~perk11@] has joined #openttd
15:42<JVassie>ottd has a flawed scale
15:42<JVassie>which doesnt help
15:42<JVassie>you do the best you can do
15:42<JVassie>nuff said
15:42<JVassie>let the haters hate
15:43<andythenorth>frosch123: nice flat landscape you have for your rivers
15:43<perk11>can anyone give me a hint where I can download 1.0.1 version?
15:43<andythenorth>I see no locks :P
15:44<perk11>JVassie: more exactly?
15:44<perk11>I don't see "previous versions" there
15:44<JVassie>why not 1.1.2?
15:45<frosch123>andythenorth: i told you that rivers makes no sense in mountains
15:45<frosch123>it is hilly landscape though
15:45<perk11>JVassie: there is a server running this ver
15:45<andythenorth>mountains schmountains
15:45<perk11>pjpe: ty
15:45<andythenorth>there are locks on most navigable waterways
15:45<frosch123>i have 3 lock in total now
15:47*andythenorth will just keep sulking :P
15:48<andythenorth>I am happy to build locks
15:48<andythenorth>3 tile locks annoy me
15:48<andythenorth>annoy is a relative term
15:48<andythenorth>losing my keys annoys me
15:49<andythenorth>locks are just very mildly irritating
15:50<frosch123>locks are totally fine from my pov. but rivers are too small, and industries are not spawned next to rivers :p
15:50<frosch123>and there are no docks suitable for rivers
15:50<frosch123>you always have to build a hill first
15:50<andythenorth>you want industries next to rivers?
15:50<andythenorth>next you'll want a pony
15:52<andythenorth>I considered having FIRS try to locate next to rivers, but I think it's not wise
15:52<frosch123>yeah, likely not :)
15:55*andythenorth wonders
15:55<andythenorth>locks are extra annoying because the river has to be bulldozed first
15:55<andythenorth>no overbuilding
15:56<andythenorth>but canal can be overbuilt on river
15:56<frosch123>yeah, might be inconsistent
15:58<andythenorth>canals *should* be a viable option in early game
15:58<andythenorth>but due to me setting ship price high, and *insane* cost of making a navigable waterway, they're not
15:59<andythenorth>maybe I should add more river/canal boats, which cost relatively quite some less than ships, but are slower
15:59<andythenorth>I could keep moaning about costs, or I could adjust them with grf :P
15:59<andythenorth>forgot that
16:00<andythenorth>you guys will be annoyed if I have FISH adjust build cost of canals?
16:01<frosch123> <- four-hop transfer
16:03<andythenorth>transfers suck
16:03<andythenorth>most of those vehicles are losing money?
16:03<andythenorth>in my current game my 3/4 hop transfers are mostly losing money :(
16:03<andythenorth>I make money overall
16:04<frosch123>the trams have profit of 200£ to 760£
16:04<frosch123>the ships 3500 to 9200
16:05<frosch123>i guess it works because the ships are not much faster than the trams
16:08<andythenorth>how would non-slope-tile docks work?
16:12-!-KritiK [] has joined #openttd
16:12<frosch123>ttdp has something implemented, but i guess there is no single grf available using it
16:12<frosch123>i guess it would be either two tiles with one on land and one in the river, like the current docks
16:12<andythenorth>does this arrive at the usual progression of
16:12<andythenorth>'it needs state machine'
16:12<andythenorth>'state machine needs newports'
16:12<frosch123>or - which might be nicer - a dock completely parallel to the river
16:12<frosch123>only on land
16:12<andythenorth>'no-one can solve newports'
16:13<andythenorth>frosch123: being able to build docks *along* coasts would be nice as well as rivers
16:13<andythenorth>although rail stations achieve much same I guess
16:13*andythenorth wonders if station types could be simply merged
16:13<andythenorth>and tiles support n vehicle types
16:13<frosch123>the same could be said about depots
16:13<andythenorth>probly *not*
16:13<frosch123>building them next to river would solve the issue of them being too small :p
16:14<andythenorth>it's the correct solution imo
16:14<andythenorth>there's probably some blocker :(
16:14<frosch123>but you could then build canals by chaining depots :p
16:15<frosch123>i.e. they may only have one exit then
16:16*andythenorth ponders what graphical shiny thing would provide incentive to fix docks
16:17*andythenorth can't think of anything :P
16:21<__ln__>english grammar question: in "they provide us with [something]", is 'with' mandatory or optional?
16:22<pjpe>might want to keep the with
16:23<andythenorth>__ln__: which english :P
16:23<andythenorth>there's lots
16:23<andythenorth>UK English, 'correct'
16:23<andythenorth>or world english, 'understandable'
16:24<andythenorth>and what's the [something] ?
16:24<andythenorth>"they provide us shelter" is probably acceptable
16:24<andythenorth>"they provide us rabbits" should really be "they provide us with rabbits"
16:24<pjpe>but with works in both ways
16:24<pjpe>i'd say keep the with
16:26<__ln__>[something] could be e.g. 'a way to earn money'
16:27<JVassie>with still applies I think
16:27<JVassie>they provide us with a way to earn money
16:28<__ln__>with 'with' sounds better to me too, i just don't have any reliable reference that says it's so.
16:29<__ln__>(until now; of course i consider #openttd reliable!)
16:29<frosch123>thanks michi_cc :) now that i see it, i think i might have seen before
16:34<__ln__>i'm actually reading for an exam and writing down grammatical errors in the book simultaneously......
16:36-!-jpx_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:36<__ln__>found three of such within the first 120 pages.
16:36<@Belugas>and... irc'ing :)
16:36<__ln__>that too :)
16:37<@Belugas>i'm sure you have music on the background as well...
16:37<@Belugas>i cannot live without music...
16:38-!-Lachie_ [] has joined #openttd
16:40-!-Lachie [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:42<__ln__>instrumental music is ok for background when reading
16:46-!-KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:47-!-Kurimus [] has quit []
16:47-!-perk11 [~perk11@] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
16:59<frosch123>alternatively you can use music where you do not understand the text
17:00<andythenorth>trying to clone a ship from train depot window produces string 'vehicle is not available'
17:00<frosch123>and if the music is loud enough there is nothing which can distract you
17:00<andythenorth>which is not quite true or accurate
17:01<@Belugas>and repetitive, too.. like...hypnosys
17:01<@Belugas>man i'm so mad when they cut me out of my bubble :S
17:02<frosch123>oh, dalestan actually drew those dock sprites :o
17:02<frosch123>(well, adapted the originals)
17:06<@planetmaker>does openttd support that type of docks?
17:06<frosch123>i stumbled yesterday over them when adding version tags :)
17:06<frosch123>the tricky part is also how to build them
17:07<frosch123>ttdp allows them only on tiles which have exactly one neighboured watertile
17:07<frosch123>so it can figure out the direction
17:07<Zuu>Does it store the direction in the map so that you can add more water tiles later?
17:08<frosch123>yes, it is only needed during construction
17:08<frosch123>as it remains a single click build
17:08<frosch123>like normal docks
17:08<JVassie>how do you add a user to the access list on oftc?
17:08<Zuu>Could either use sub-tile mouse location for direction like eg. auto-road or use a depot like window.
17:09<frosch123>hmm, sub-tile mouse location might be most cleverish
17:09<frosch123>a picker window would also change the construction of normal depots
17:10<Zuu>If there exist easy to use stubs for eg. auto-road to hook into, it would probably not be too much work.
17:10<frosch123>well, it does not need dragging
17:10<frosch123>so it is easier
17:11<@planetmaker>auto-rail like construction
17:11<@planetmaker>which indicates the current placement
17:11<frosch123>hmm, that method would also work for tunnels
17:12-!-TWerkhoven[l] [] has joined #openttd
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's a good idea
17:13<Zuu>frosch123: You mean indicating the other end?
17:14<Zuu>Or tunnels starting at flat tiles?
17:14<@planetmaker>tunnels on flat tiles require new graphics, too ;-)
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>tunnels on slopes not exactly aligned?
17:15<Zuu>I'm sure someone will paint it if someone implements it.
17:15<frosch123>well, originally i meant tunnels at diagonal slopes
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>tunnels on flat tiles need bridge-like construction
17:15<frosch123>but then i remembered that would need the new map array :p
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>"the new map array"
17:16<frosch123>esp. the "(new map) array", not the "new (map array)"
17:16<Eddi|zuHause>diagonal tunnels/bridges!
17:18<peter1138>smooth curves!
17:18<frosch123>finer height levels
17:18<peter1138>realistic scale!
17:18<frosch123>extra zoom
17:19<peter1138>2 tracks on a tile!
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>3! 4!
17:20<frosch123>did i ever told you how much i hate games with weather and/or day/night cycle?
17:21-!-KouDy [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:21<frosch123>like that always some silly animation blocks your view
17:21<Zuu>It depends. In SimTower it was done in a good way.
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>SimCity 2000 had weather, but i have no clue what it actually did
17:22-!-KouDy [] has joined #openttd
17:22<frosch123>maybe monsters only appear when it is sunny?
17:23<frosch123>interesting that the disasters of simcity are as silly as those of ottd, isn't it? :)
17:23-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>the disasters of simcity had pretty widespread effects
17:24*Zuu liked the transport problems in SimTower :-)
17:26<andythenorth>underground metro!
17:26<andythenorth>collateralised debt obligations!
17:27-!-Neon [] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>buying and selling cargo!
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>(what a silly idea...)
17:28<frosch123>ports of calls was such a game
17:28<frosch123>unless you wrecked your ship because you had to park it manually
17:30-!-alfplayer [] has joined #openttd
17:30-!-Hyronymus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:32<frosch123>hmm, i wasn't aware there are new versions of it
17:33<@planetmaker>ports of calls! oh, long ago...
17:33*TWerkhoven[l] still has it somewhere
17:34<TWerkhoven[l]>windows version too
17:34-!-Hyronymus [] has joined #openttd
17:37*andythenorth plays the game
17:37<andythenorth>it's quite fun
17:40-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:48-!-KouDy [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>never heard of that game
17:51-!-TWerkhoven[l] [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:55<@Terkhen>good night
17:55-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:55-!-Hyronymus [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
18:00-!-Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:14-!-Mucht [] has joined #openttd
18:16-!-JVassie [~James@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:27-!-Pulec [] has quit []
18:29-!-Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:31-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@] has quit []
18:35<LordAro>he _will_ be killed
18:35<LordAro>night all
18:36-!-LordAro [] has quit [Quit: "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."]
18:41<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r22861 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_order.cpp ai_order.hpp ai_order.hpp.sq): -Add: [NoAI] support the new conditional order introduced in r22858 (Zuu)
18:46-!-Mucht [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:47-!-DDR [] has joined #openttd
18:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22862 /trunk/src/tree_gui.cpp: -Add: Allow the tree build gui to resize according to tree size
19:02-!-SmatZ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:02-!-Osai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:04-!-tneo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:05-!-tneo [] has joined #openttd
19:06-!-SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
19:07-!-Osai [] has joined #openttd
19:07-!-Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:42-!-alfplayer [] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC]
20:15-!-Adambean [] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing]
20:22-!-Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
20:59-!-perk11 [~perk11@] has joined #openttd
21:00-!-DDR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:05-!-DDR [] has joined #openttd
21:54-!-APTX [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:01-!-TWerkhoven [] has joined #openttd
22:02-!-Strid_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:09-!-pugi [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:10-!-pugi [] has joined #openttd
22:16-!-douknoukem [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:26-!-rhaeder [] has joined #openttd
22:31-!-rhaeder1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:37-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d0f1:a0b1:9454:9c31] has quit [Quit: bye]
22:43-!-pugi [] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own]
22:57-!-APTX [] has joined #openttd
23:26-!-perk11 [~perk11@] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.]
23:38-!-Kurimus [] has joined #openttd
---Logclosed Thu Sep 01 00:00:26 2011