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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-09-03

---Logopened Sat Sep 03 00:00:27 2011
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00:54<pjpe>does anyone know what uh
00:54<pjpe>third row from the top
00:54<pjpe>(row with the rail intersection)
00:54<pjpe>the 5 sprites after the first one are for?
00:55<pjpe>oh wait they're probably junction underlay
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01:05<pjpe>yes they are
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03:16<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:28<csaba>I have started a game with an AI that always crashes. Is there a way I can set the already saved game use some other AI?
03:34<@Terkhen>yes, you can stop that AI and start a new one
03:34<@Alberth>can you change the settings from within the game from the options?
03:35<@Alberth>I don't know how good AIs are at taking over stuff built previously though
03:35<csaba>ok figured it out... stop_ai 3 and then start_ai
03:36<csaba>another question, I'm using an AI that is supposed to build a national highway grid, but it has ran out of money and bankrupted
03:36<csaba>can I somehow give it a lot of money?
03:36<pjpe>i have an nml file that is making new tracks, i have a parameter that i want to use to control whether a track replaces monorail or adds the track as a new type
03:36<pjpe>anyone have an idea how?
03:37<pjpe>i tried using a switch to determine the track label
03:37<pjpe>but that doesn't compile
03:37<planetmaker>csaba: cheat yourself to the company and then use the money cheat
03:37<planetmaker>then cheat back to your company
03:38<planetmaker>pjpe: conditionally include one or the other item delcaration
03:39<planetmaker>if (param == blah) { item(FEAT_RAILTYPES, name) { property { label: choice1; }}} else { .. }
03:43<pjpe>that did indeed work
03:43<pjpe>nml is so much simpler than fuckin
03:43<pjpe>nfo files
03:43<pjpe>good god
03:43<@Terkhen>yes :P
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03:44<pjpe>still feels weird in places though
03:44<pjpe>like you can't encapsulate large blocks in if statements
03:44<pjpe>what am i saying
03:44<pjpe>i just did
03:45<pjpe>what was my point
03:45<pjpe>i don't know
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03:51<pjpe>is there any way to make a rail type uh
03:51<pjpe>let trains of a certain railtype
03:51<pjpe>work on another rail
03:51<pjpe>but not be built by a depot of that type
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04:06<planetmaker>pjpe: you mean like steam engines can be built in an electrical depot?
04:06<planetmaker>Obviously that works. Engines have to have power on that railtype
04:06<planetmaker>then they can be built there
04:06<pjpe>i mean have a train that is powered on
04:07<pjpe>i made a set that makes a metrotrack
04:07<@Terkhen>I think he means that trains can move through the track but not be built on depots of that track type
04:07<pjpe>and i set mono trains to also be powered and work on metro tracks
04:07<pjpe>but i don't want to be able to build metro trains in a monorail depot
04:07<pjpe>only be able to build them in a metro track one
04:08<planetmaker>hm, I think that doesn't work
04:08<@Terkhen>I think that it would make sense to not fill the build vehicle list of a given track type just because some trains can move through that type
04:08<planetmaker>move through != powered
04:09<planetmaker>if they have power imho it makes sense to have the option to build them there
04:09<planetmaker>there are two properties: compatible and powered
04:09<planetmaker>compatible is not build, but can move through (though not on their own power)
04:10<pjpe>yeah that's the problem
04:10<@Terkhen>so a train with engines that are only compatible will stop?
04:10<pjpe>i want to be able to also have the original monorail trains in at the same time as metro trains
04:11<pjpe>but if you do that right now then you can build metro rail in monorail
04:11<pjpe>and it feels weird
04:11<pjpe>even though they are the same track with a different look and speed limit
04:19<planetmaker>Terkhen: yes, compatible will stop.
04:20<planetmaker>An electric engine can move on unelectrified tracks - when pulled by a diesel or steam engine
04:20<@Terkhen>I see :)
04:21<planetmaker>thus double-powering some trains might make sense, if electric tracks are €€€€€€€
04:21<pjpe>i don't think canada even has electric rails
04:21<pjpe>that's messed up
04:27*andythenorth ponders
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04:46<csaba>could someone please help me solve this problem: I have a station where trains may come in from both directions. The incoming track has a path signal. On the outgoing track is a depot to serve. The problem is, the incoming train reserves 2 tracks when entering the station, so no other trains may enter at the same time.
04:46<csaba>How to fix this problem?
04:47<csaba>I thought maybe the depot would work as a semaphore but it didn't help at all
04:47<@Alberth> <-- woudl that help?
04:48<Pinkbeast>Also, turn off "allow trains to make 90 degree turns"?
04:48<pjpe>yes that
04:48<pjpe>and make sure trains can turn around there
04:48<Pinkbeast>I would add a signal facing the platform before each crossover.
04:49<csaba>hmm thanks for the help
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05:11<Tatsh>just want to say thanks to whoever wrote the instructions for the cross copmpiler targetting OS X
05:12<Tatsh>i patched odcctools to build with current version of GCC and I tested it with Lion SDK:
05:12<Tatsh>can't build arm, but i could build i686-apple-darwin11 and x86_64-apple-darwin11 without too much trouble (not trustworthy enough for a script yet though)
05:16<planetmaker>hm, that's interesting. Do you have the diffs?
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05:18<@Terkhen>hi krinn
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05:18<Tatsh>planetmaker, yea but the thing was my text editor messed up things which is why i just made a project
05:18<Tatsh>i can make the diffs still
05:19<@Terkhen>as long as the project files are not added to the cvs, the diffs should be clean
05:19*planetmaker clones the git repo
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05:22<krinn>Is there a special thing about articulated vehicle ? because i can check if a vehicle is articulated or not, and i always throw them away without really knowing why :)
05:23<planetmaker>articulated vehicles can only use drive-through road stops
05:23<planetmaker>(if road vehicles)
05:24<krinn>wow, that's a restriction
05:24<krinn>thx planetmaker
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05:28<planetmaker>Tatsh: you still use gcc 4.0 for that? (or so some hints suggest?)
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05:29<Tatsh>no, it's just that's what p5490 is
05:30<Tatsh>it works; unlike toolwhip which has a memory overflow and it can't build gcc
05:32<Tatsh>the main issue with odcctools is apple's coding; gcc 4.5 wants typename for instantiation of classes that come from templates
05:32<Tatsh>and i'm not sure how they got anything to compile in ld64 when a class definition is not even present above it's mentioning in a struct; not even a forward declaration (which would never suffice)
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05:42<Tatsh>oh yea blocks; there are a few headers that have block functions and GCC has no support for them; they are not wrapped in #ifdef __BLOCKS__ either; so you can just do so manually on your header files
05:42<Tatsh>if you include <Foundation/Foundation.h> as it is from Lion, you will get a compile error
05:45<planetmaker>they might compile with clang
05:45<planetmaker>(wild guess)
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05:53<planetmaker>Tatsh: does your build chain also build iOS binaries, or "just" 10.5 ... 10.7?
05:55<Tatsh>no iOS yet; i plan to do that but with clang or llvm-gcc like the real toolchain
05:56<Tatsh>i don't think compiling C++ is possible with the 10.7sdk so maybe i make mention of that
05:56<Tatsh>according to forum posts, the errors i'm getting have solely to do with using gcc 4.0.x instead of 4.2
05:58<planetmaker>errors or warnings?
05:59<Tatsh>on inclusion of <iostream>, /home/tatsh/usr/x86_64-apple-darwin11/usr/include/c++/4.2.1/ext/atomicity.h:51: error: '__sync_fetch_and_add' was not declared in this scope
06:00<Tatsh>and i have to do another weird -I to make it find the header
06:02<Tatsh>this is apparently all fixed in 4.2 so i hoep to get that going real soon
06:02<Tatsh>mingw had a similar issue until they were synced with 4.2
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06:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: terkhen * r22877 /trunk/src/sound/win32_s.cpp: -Fix (r22874): Fix broken compilation on MinGW.
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06:39<andythenorth>did I mention 3 tile locks are silly?
06:39*andythenorth goes back to drawing
06:41<@Terkhen>maybe once or twice :P
06:44<krinn>does that error speak to someone? Use only multiple unit wagons
06:46<planetmaker>krinn: use the correct wagon
06:46<krinn>i know that :)
06:46<planetmaker>well. That's what the message tells you. It even tells you which are corrrect
06:47<krinn>you mean i have wagons named "multiple"
06:48<krinn>oh indeed i have it :D
06:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22878 /trunk/src/spriteloader/png.cpp: -Fix (r22873-ish): Check range before casting to uint16.
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07:21<CIA-2>OpenTTD: terkhen * r22879 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Miscalculation of train curve speed limits. (monoid)
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07:28<sivik>wow, this is still a good channel
07:28<sivik>Ok, all these darn different kinds of signals are confusing me. I read over the documentation like 3 times
07:29<krinn>use PBS it do wonder in all cases
07:29<sivik>PBS like the tv station?
07:30<krinn>no like Poor Boys Sorry
07:30<sivik>I don't understand what you mean by that.
07:30<krinn>or Path Base Signal
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07:30<sivik>krinn, can I describe what i'm having issues with?
07:31<krinn>some stuck trains i suppose :)
07:31<sivik>one station, two trains from different directions, let say it points up and down and one enters from top and one from bottom
07:31<sivik>they either crash or never get there.
07:31<sivik>I cannot figure out which signal to use to make it work
07:31<krinn>PBS as i said
07:32<sivik>which signal is that in the game?
07:32<krinn>5th in the list
07:33<sivik>top or bottom of the window?
07:33<krinn>same, they are just for the look
07:33<krinn>top and bottom ones have same function, just different graphics
07:33<sivik>thats what I though.
07:33<sivik>I tried the 5th and and my trains get lost
07:34<sivik>and keep going in circles
07:34<krinn>because you need a rail next to the station so train can turn around
07:34<krinn>made it a two station, or build a rail that connect each entry/exit to each other
07:35<krinn>but it would be just better to add the two platforms
07:35<krinn>if you want them to work with only 1 platform, use the same entry for both trains
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08:17<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22880 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.h: -Cleanup: SIZE_MAX is now defined in stdafx.h
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08:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22881 /trunk/src/ (core/alloc_func.hpp pathfinder/npf/queue.cpp stdafx.h): -Fix (r22875): GCC warnings on 64bit systems.
08:48<frosch123>not that i am interested in a new ottd logo... but why does every suggestion in that thread build a logo with tracks and stuff in game?
08:50<planetmaker>I wonder that, too. It doesn't make for a good logo really...
08:51<frosch123>esp. not when icon-sized :p
08:51<__ln__>but the current one isn't good either
08:52<frosch123>orudge: btw. what happened to tt-wiki / newgrf-specs wiki logos?
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08:52<frosch123>afaik i had the best (or only? :p) suggestion :
08:52<krinn>i like the current one, it show more what the main game was
08:53<krinn>a tycoon family
08:53<frosch123>yup, tt-forums uses a similiar logo
08:53<frosch123>so it is corporate design
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08:57<andythenorth>the logo is fine
08:57<andythenorth>discussing it wastes characters :P
08:57<andythenorth>characters consume coal
08:57<Hirundo>in the end, it makes kittens die?
08:58<andythenorth>my icon looks like this. I like it:
08:59<@orudge>frosch123: at the moment, nothing, I guess
08:59<__ln__>andythenorth: would you wear a t-shirt with the current logo?
09:00<@orudge>you mean like ?
09:00*orudge has never actually ordered from there, to be fair, despite setting it up
09:00<@orudge>not sure if anybody has
09:00<frosch123>i considered buying one of the caps for the r20k party
09:00<frosch123>but i was too late
09:00<frosch123>but yes, the logo looks weird if it is too big
09:00<__ln__>orudge: yes, like that
09:00<frosch123>it is more a small logo
09:01<frosch123>too few details for something to print on a tshirt
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09:01<__ln__>i wouldn't wear a dollar sign, it gives the wrong impression to the minority of world population that has never heard about openttd.
09:02<@orudge>huh, apparently I was sent a US cheque for $1 in January
09:02<@orudge>to the address that I no longer live in
09:02<@orudge>well that's handy
09:02<frosch123>a cheque for $1? wow
09:02<frosch123>how much does it cost to exchange it?
09:02<@orudge>that apparently is the only payment I've ever (not) received from CafePress
09:02<@orudge>well, I have a US bank account
09:03<@orudge>I just don't live there any more
09:03<@orudge>but, well, $1 is currently about 61p
09:04<@orudge>I'll ask Andrew if any mail arrived for me when I see him later this month, but he'll probably have thrown it out if anything did turn up. And it'd cost more to get to the bank on the bus than the cheque is worth :p
09:04<@orudge>they now support PayPal, too, how useful
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09:13<Eddi|zuHause>what's the sense of mailing a cheque when the postage fee exceeds its value?
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i have ever seen anyone using a cheque...
09:14<+michi_cc>Move to the USA, then you can try to find someone using a wire transfer... :p
09:17<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: of course it makes sense when the sender owes money to the recipient.
09:21<csaba>I've seen some savegames where industry produces a lot of resources, for example a forrest produces 1500 woods. How was that achieved, I never ever had more than 300
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09:22<planetmaker>csaba: provide good service over decades
09:23<planetmaker>rating > 66% helps
09:23<krinn>csaba, some newgrf can do that i suppose
09:23<krinn>desert sawmill if you feed it with trees
09:23<planetmaker>krinn: default industries can do that
09:25<krinn>i think if it was default setting he might have notice how the industry is well served
09:25<frosch123>csaba: default industries with non-smooth economy can never pass 1100 wood or so
09:26<frosch123>so it uses smooth economy, and either lots of time with high speed (maglev) cargo trains
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09:26<frosch123>or if there are many of such industries they were build in scenario editor, or the ingame cheat was used
09:27<frosch123>if you play without wagon speed limits and transport cargo at > 200km/h station rating will never drop below 95% or so, and industries are likely to increase production
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09:34<csaba>well I'm currently in 1940 so the max speed a train can do is around 95km/h
09:35<krinn>if you saw the industry doing that in 1940, it was a cheat for sure
09:35<csaba>no it was after 2000 I think
09:36<planetmaker>krinn: why?
09:36<planetmaker>also in 1940 you can have played for several decades :-)
09:36<csaba>I started in 1918
09:37<krinn>and earn enought money to build that much network that should be need to let the industry produce that much ?
09:37<csaba>currently I transport everywhere at around 70-85% is the goods produced... it can't possible go higher, I have always an extra train waiting in each station to continue picking up the goods as soon as the other one starts going out
09:38<csaba>is it even possible to transport 100% of the goods?
09:38<krinn>you won't get more because of speed, even having zillions trains queuing there
09:38<csaba>I see
09:38<csaba>so it should improve later on
09:38<csaba>I usually always quit in the 80'es when there's nothing left to build
09:38<krinn>that's the benefits of newer engines
09:39<krinn>and it's logic, just compare a 10 jinty serviced station vs a 2 tgv one :p
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10:23<Mellanvarld>Dedicated server seems to be misbehaving on ARM, fails to properly delete tracks.
10:28<planetmaker>anycase, unless debian, I doubt we have an official version which runs on ARM
10:30<Mellanvarld>debian squeeze, ottd compiled from source
10:31<planetmaker>ok. And how does the problem look like in more detail?
10:31<planetmaker>or is the server up and running?
10:31<planetmaker>and what version?
10:32<Mellanvarld>1.1.2 unmodified
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10:36<planetmaker>seems offline. Or non-default port?
10:37-!-Netsplit <-> quits: Theos, Born_Acorn, Andel, ccfreak2k, devilsadvocate, lugo
10:37<@Terkhen>planetmaker: I managed to connect fine
10:37<@Terkhen>I can remove and place tracks normally
10:38<@Terkhen>the game runs a bit laggy, though
10:41<planetmaker>seems also normal to me
10:42<planetmaker>so... how does your problem show, Mellanvarld?
10:42<planetmaker>hm... desync?
10:43<Mellanvarld>and when resyncing the removed tracks are back again...
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10:44<@Terkhen>let's try it again
10:44<planetmaker>indeed. My tracks are back :O
10:44<@Terkhen>let's be sure that it is reproducible
10:44<planetmaker>is ARM big endian?
10:44<@Terkhen>I was thinking on an endian problem too :)
10:45<@Terkhen>I placed and removed lots of tracks in the small isle near Furnston
10:45<@Terkhen>can you see them?
10:46<planetmaker>no tracks there. But bulldozed terrain
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10:46<planetmaker>desync when I tried to build there
10:47<planetmaker>err... I did not try to build _that many_ tracks there...
10:47<planetmaker>seems wrong company-assignment
10:48<@Alberth>planetmaker: not the ARMs I have worked with a looong time ago
10:48<@Terkhen>this is quite strange :)
10:48<planetmaker>and my other tracks are back, too
10:48<planetmaker>near !here
10:48<@Terkhen>but even if we can't pinpoint what is happening exactly, it seems reproducible enough to start logging for desyncs :P
10:49<@Terkhen>a bug this big must be endian related
10:50<@Terkhen>or something else that prevents it from happening with normal builds
10:50<planetmaker>Mellanvarld: can you paste your config.log somewhere?
10:51<Mellanvarld>where is that file located?
10:52<@Terkhen>next to configure
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11:01<Amis>Are there any way to ban a certain type of cargo from a station?
11:01<andythenorth>why would you need to?
11:01<Amis>Because I forgot to refit a plane and now all the passangers are going to the airport instead of the train stations
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>that'll time out after a while
11:03<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: don't you need to rebuild the airport?
11:03<@Terkhen>checking endianess... AUTO <--- same here
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11:04<@planetmaker>well... I have checking endianess... PREPROCESSOR - but that makes seemingly no difference
11:05<@planetmaker>as I could in principle build both when building a fat binary
11:05<@planetmaker>Mellanvarld: do you know your endianess?
11:08<@planetmaker>wth... ARM is / can be bi-endian?
11:08<Amis>So now the passenger rate decreased to 0%... but all of a sudden now it's increasing again, what... the...
11:08<Mellanvarld>uname -a "#5 Tue Sep 7 16:06:15 CEST 2010 armv5tel GNU/Linux"
11:08<TinoDidriksen>Yes, some ARM can switch.
11:09<Amis>Is this some kind of bug or... ?
11:09<@Terkhen>or you picked passengers again
11:09<Amis>Terkhen, I'm sure I did not
11:09<Amis>Now it went up to 13% and stuck there
11:10<Amis>I remember something similiar happened to me a while ago, I could not understand why it's not going under a certain percentage
11:12<@Alberth>afaik you need to rebuild the station (airport in your case) to really make it stop accepting passengers (rather than just getting a low rating)
11:13<Amis>This is silly
11:13<Amis>Now it's really stuck on 16% and the number of passengers are jumping around 400
11:13<appe>when clicking the vehicle depot and the little bus button, isnt that supposed to show all the busses created in the depot? or is it just buses with directions to the depot? :)
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11:13<Amis>Not decreasing or increasing at all
11:14<krinn>Amis, you've build a statue no?
11:14<Amis>krinn, no
11:15<appe>what does the statue do?
11:15<krinn>dunno then, like Eddi|zuHause said destroy & rebuild the airport
11:15<krinn>or if you can, just rebuild it shared with the rail station
11:16<@planetmaker>Mellanvarld: that unfortunately doesn't tell me. But there's an endian-check programme compiled in objs/...
11:16<@planetmaker>next to all the .o files
11:16<@planetmaker>can you run that?
11:17<Amis>What I don't really get is after it drops to 0% why does it start increasing? It's something with the algorithm checking the number of passengers waiting
11:17<+michi_cc>planetmaker: armv5tel should be little endian
11:17<@planetmaker>ok :-)
11:18<@planetmaker>*should*. Thus the output of what was compiled or though might be more interesting
11:19<Mellanvarld>#ifndef ENDIAN_H
11:19<Mellanvarld>#define ENDIAN_H
11:19<Mellanvarld>#define TTD_ENDIAN TTD_LITTLE_ENDIAN
11:19<Amis>A crash in the area of the local goverment ruins my ratings right?
11:19<appe>ah, neat.
11:20<@planetmaker>thanks, Mellanvarld. Which kinda doesn't make the issue easier, sadly
11:20<krinn>python -c "import sys;sys.exit(0 if sys.byteorder=='big' else 1)"
11:20<krinn>then echo $? -> 1 little, 0 big
11:21<@planetmaker>we already have the answer which this openttd build uses, krinn ;-)
11:21*krinn is slow
11:21<@Alberth>and then hope you cannot set that per application :)
11:21<krinn>Amis, yes
11:22<@planetmaker>Mellanvarld: would you care to enable desync debugging?
11:22<Mellanvarld>planetmaker: how is that done?
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>Amis: yes
11:25<@planetmaker>beware, that produces LOTs of savegames
11:38<__ln__>planetmaker: afaik ARM can be operated either big or little endian, but Linux running on arm is mostly or always little.
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>be aware that ARM is not actually a processor, but the synthesis-specs of a processor, so the companies making the chips can make modifications to it (like having processor and chipset in one single chip)
11:41<Eddi|zuHause>(in software-terms: they sell the source code to the library, not the compiled library)
11:42<fjb>The ability to have both endians is part of the design, but it defaults to little endian.
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>on hardware-level, there is very little difference between both
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11:43<fjb>The little differences are enough to have a lot of fun.
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>the real fun begins at the software level :)
11:44<fjb>What is software without hardware?
11:45<krinn>fjb an emulator ? :)
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>an emulator :)
11:45*krinn is faster !!!
11:45<fjb>Even that needs some kind of hardware to run on in the end.
11:45<Eddi|zuHause>if you knew me, that would be no suprise :p
11:45<krinn>;) Eddi|zuHause
11:46<fjb>Eddi|zuHause: Size does not always matter. :)
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely sure what you're insinuating...
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11:52<krinn>openttd have max cargo enum define ?
11:52<krinn>that newgrf cannot bypass
11:52<krinn>thank you planetmaker
11:52<@planetmaker>but it's not an enum
11:53<krinn>:) else newgrf wouldn't be able to alter it
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11:59<appe>i want this driving goods around ttd
12:00<krinn>get generic cars newgrf and aitowncars :p
12:01<appe>will do :D
12:02<krinn>it's fun
12:02<appe>hm, i cant get the logic train to reach speeds over 3000km/h
12:02<appe>it takes ages to accelerate, even with no cars attached.
12:03<krinn>watch out its power
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12:04<appe>i only have one train (the LevA Gator) with 66.447hk.
12:06<krinn>you have a realistc acceleration setting, and check corners that could slow them
12:07<appe>the acceleration model is set to "original"
12:07<appe>oh jesus there we are
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12:09<appe>still stops at 11.700km/h
12:09<appe>with one wagon
12:09<appe>hm, let's see
12:10<appe>oh, yes. neat.
12:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22882 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix [FS#4758]: [NewGRF] DCxx text references via the textstack are not allowed, but caused crash.
12:11<appe>though, 60.000km/h is rather boring
12:12<appe>i would like to see the tran.
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>observing a train gets increasingly difficult the closer it gets to speed of light :p
12:20<__ln__>apropos, does this equation make any particular sense: (other than v=2c)
12:23<krinn>theorical warp speed?
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12:28<__ln__>but why the cubic root
12:30<krinn>because the one that send the pic think it was looking cool
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12:32<__ln__>it's the warp factor that makes a starship run, not coolness factor
12:33<krinn>hi Wolf01
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12:33<krinn>as none (to my knowledge so far :P ) know the warp factor equation: it's just an equation that could (still for the author) appears cool
12:34<krinn>you know you're searching logic to an equation write on a startrek shirt __ln__ ?
12:34-!-perk111 [~perk11@] has joined #openttd
12:35<krinn> look, and i find it more cool as-is
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12:51<__ln__>krinn: would be a pity if in the future the first attempt to build a warp engine failed because the key equation was intentionally written wrong on a t-shirt used as the scientific basis.
12:52-!-mode/#openttd [+v Yexo] by ChanServ
12:52-!-ChanServ changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.2 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only
12:52-!-mode/#openttd [+v planetmaker] by ChanServ
12:52-!-mode/#openttd [+v SmatZ] by ChanServ
12:52-!-mode/#openttd [+v peter1138] by ChanServ
12:52-!-mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ
12:59<appe>the anger that rises when you realize "it's a topic change, you havent been kicked and rejoined".
13:00<krinn>never seen anyone kicked from here
13:01*appe is bound the be the first.
13:03<TinoDidriksen>Last kick was on 2011-08-12 at 18:45:39
13:03<TinoDidriksen>But only bot kicks...
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13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22883 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 23 changes by Gavin
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: czech - 9 changes by TheLamer
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: hungarian - 6 changes by IPG
13:46<CIA-2>OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
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13:48<krinn>do railtype id are assign by openttd or it's one hardcoded in newgrf ?
13:50<frosch123>by ottd
13:50<@planetmaker>a newgrf cannot chose an ID. Labels are the defining property
13:50<krinn>how many RT are support ?
13:50<pjpe>is that guy
13:50<pjpe>ever going to release infra
13:52<krinn>pjpe, what?
13:52<Hirundo>krinn: 16
13:52<krinn>thank you guys
13:57<jonty-comp>it's a girl
13:57<jonty-comp>and no, she's never going to release it
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14:20<krinn>hmmmm cannot query any railtype infos, and i have a newgrf that set railtype speed limit, dead end or i miss a function ?
14:22<frosch123>does AIRailTypeList give you some list?
14:22<krinn>but no clues about the rail in it
14:22<frosch123>what do you want to know about the railtype?
14:22<krinn>i can check my trains against the rail to see if they would work on it, this doesn't tell me that the train will then just run at the max railtype speed limit
14:23<krinn>monorail running at 30km :)
14:24<frosch123>the railtype only sets a single speed limit
14:24<frosch123>while engine newgrfs could change the speed on different railtypes, i am not aware of any grfs doing that
14:25<krinn>but the railtype speed limit enforce the speed over the train
14:25<krinn>so a 300km trains speed == railtype speed
14:25<frosch123>yes, it is a maximum
14:26<krinn>and i'm stuck because if the train can run on rail, i could only assume the rail is fine
14:26<frosch123>the speed of a train is the minimum of various speed limits
14:26<frosch123>railtype limit, bridge limit, wagon limits, limit of the engine itself, ...
14:26<krinn>yep but i can also get the wagon speed limit
14:27<krinn>but i speak about an ai, i'm not that hot to build a function to run the train and watch its maximum speed to catch the railtype speed limit :/
14:27<@planetmaker>it's hotter to request those functions written by others, I know :-P
14:28<krinn>even worst, as i cannot query anything about the railtype, i cannot even blacklist it
14:28<krinn>planetmaker, stop assume i know C++ and don't wish to help: i know 0 to c++ :)
14:29<@planetmaker>there's somewhere a thread in tt-forums about needed / desired / whatever features for the NoAI framework
14:29<frosch123>krinn: there is AIRail::GetMaxSpeed
14:29<@planetmaker>sounds like what is needed :-)
14:29<frosch123>yes, everything is present
14:29<krinn>oh i miss that one wait i recheck !
14:30<krinn>no, can't find it :/
14:31<krinn>don't you mistake with the GetMaxSpeed from AIVehicle ?
14:31<krinn>oh wait found it !
14:31<frosch123>you know the effect of ctrl+f in a browser?
14:32<krinn>yes, but doesn't gave good result if you hit backspace before and fall on AIVehicle page
14:33<krinn>and i've miss that one while i've look at the airail page like 10 times (just today!)
14:37<krinn>do you have a resume page of feature newgrf can do so i would stop asking if a newgrf can do this or that ?
14:38<frosch123>newgrf can reduce their speed on a specific railtype to 10 km/h on wednesdays unless you attached the wednesday-compensation-unit
14:39<krinn>but i've seen so weird things with newgrf "unleash" specs that this might be possible
14:39<frosch123>don't ask what newgrf could do :) live with that current newgrf do :p
14:39<frosch123>krinn: it is possible
14:39<frosch123>if a newgrf author intents to code nonsense, he can do
14:40<krinn>but as it is right now, i discover newgrf while hitting problem and sometimes, problems aren't really easy to see
14:41<krinn>the funny ones as "i can change my wagon length because you refit it", oh wait i can also do that because you use that train, and wait, i will also have another length because with that train engine and that cargo....
14:41<krinn>and the lack of wednesday-compensation-unit :)
14:41<@planetmaker>the latter is really important!
14:41<@planetmaker>except in February, of course
14:42<appe>im bored with openttd.
14:43<@Alberth>many people here are, and try to improve it in many different ways :)
14:44<@Alberth>improve openttd, that is, not boredom :)
14:44<krinn>not me Alberth, i'm doing nothing, i just like to ask questions, and everyone love to answer here
14:44<@planetmaker>often the path goes "play" "hm... that could be more interesting" "play" "improve" ;-)
14:44-!-Amis [] has quit [Quit: *pop*]
14:44<@planetmaker>worked for me ;-)
14:45<appe>though, when i say im bored with openttd, i havent even learned using nothing but a single signal system yet.
14:45*andythenorth got un-bored by playing a game without YACD
14:45<andythenorth>having both YACD and not-YACD is quite handy
14:46*andythenorth would also like manual-YACD. (and cargodist is not that)
14:46<krinn>do like me appe, build an api, let it run, it's mesmerizing
14:46<krinn> /s/api/ai :)
14:47-!-Pulec|XNB [] has quit []
14:47<@Alberth>as in watch your bot build your tycoon :)
14:48<@Alberth>never a real AI, only a few simple test programs
14:49<@Alberth>mostly highly experimental :p
14:49<krinn>and seen it battling against newgrf is wonder :)
14:50<krinn>it's like : use doc, read specs, write the ai with many limits, just to see newgrf authors have none and do anything to bug you
14:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22884 /branches/1.1/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
14:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
14:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Perform stricter checks on some commands [FS#4745] (r22845)
14:50<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Harden savegame load against too many AI config settings [FS#4748] (r22843)
14:51-!-douknoukem [] has joined #openttd
14:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22885 /branches/1.1/ (. src/newgrf_generic.cpp):
14:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
14:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Variables 40 and 81 of callback 18 are not the same as 80 (r22867)
14:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Generic callbacks shall chain to the next GRF when the callback fails (r22866, r22865)
14:54<appe>that's it. im learning signals.
14:55-!-NOUK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:55<krinn>appe if you don't know signals, you never really build a network of trains no?
14:55<appe>the only thing ive used signals on is circle networks
14:56<appe>a big one-way circle with detours to stations.
14:56*SpComb idly wonders at what point moved from leaseweb to ovh
14:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22886 /branches/1.1/ (17 files in 10 dirs):
14:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
14:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Harden memory allocation (r22881, r22880, r22875)
14:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Validate image dimensions before loading [FS#4747] (r22878, r22877, r22874, r22873)
14:56<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Perform stricter checks on RLE compressed BMP images [FS#4746] (r22872, r22871)
14:56<frosch123>SpComb: two or three months ago
14:56<frosch123>there is a news item on
14:58<appe>ah, the wiki site for openttd.
14:58<appe>this makes me love open source gaming.
14:59<appe>as well written as a ferrari f60 is death without traction control.
14:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22887 /branches/1.1/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
14:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
14:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] DCxx text references via the textstack are not allowed, but caused crash [FS#4758] (r22882)
14:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Miscalculation of train curve speed limits (r22879)
14:59<CIA-2>OpenTTD: - Fix: Report an error in the news if autoreplace/renew fails due to the engine type being no longer available [FS#4712] (r22876)
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15:06<@Terkhen>appe: you are welcome to improve it :)
15:08<@planetmaker>SpComb: at precisely that point when they made the better offer ;-)
15:18<krinn>considering a big AIList. What is best: iter the list with an AIController.Sleep in it to set a value or use the .Valuate and let openttd handle that ?
15:21<appe>ok, i need help
15:21<appe>let's say i want to use lot's of trains on a single long track, both-way.
15:21<@planetmaker>build one track per direction
15:22<appe>when a train is in the main track in the middle there, i want the meating train to move into the branched tracks.
15:22<@planetmaker>if you want to use 'lots' of trains
15:22<appe>planetmaker: that's the most effective?
15:22<@SmatZ>build N tracks in both directions if you want to use lots of trains ;)
15:22<@planetmaker>for large 'lots' :-)
15:23<appe>and for ..let's say two?
15:23<appe>Y block?
15:23<@planetmaker>two trains? Use sidings near each station and be done. Maybe one in the middle
15:24<krinn>appe: just remember 1 train 1 platform and you'll avoid many troubles
15:25<@planetmaker>krinn: ehm... I consider that bad advice
15:25<@planetmaker>as our 2500 trains game certainly has less than 2500 station tracks
15:25<krinn>it's not 1 train and 1 platform: it's plaform=number of trains
15:25<@planetmaker>the key knowledge is network design
15:26<krinn>that's for bigger network, he is at first stage
15:26<@planetmaker>he asked about 'lots'...
15:26<appe>i get the metaphore.
15:26<krinn>the simple rule i gave him will avoid zillions troubles he could met
15:26<@planetmaker>and lead him in a dead-end building direction
15:26<krinn>don't think so no
15:27<appe>using a one-way system theoreticly makes a infinite train per station-system possible, i guess.
15:27<@planetmaker>well, I do ;-)
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15:28<@planetmaker>oh, the private station owner :-) Hello Zuu
15:28<Zuu>Hello, back in my station ;-)
15:28<krinn>hi Zuu
15:29<@planetmaker>I still think you have one of the nicest host masks here ;-)
15:29<@planetmaker>could not fit better
15:29<Zuu>If you come here you will be dissapointed that my place doesn't look like a station. :-p
15:30<krinn>more like a depot ? :)
15:30<@planetmaker>so the next r2X party is at your place, Zuu? ;-)
15:30<Zuu>Not even that I'm afraid
15:30<Zuu>(to krinn)
15:31<Zuu>planetmaker: Who knows :-)
15:31<appe>let me show you the one way system ive ..kind of always used-
15:32<Zuu>planetmaker: Or well, I could have my private r22888 party soon :-p
15:33<Ammler>what does bahnhof mean in sweden?
15:33<Zuu>But I can host about 15 people in my living room and some in the kitchen if it is indoor. As for sleeping, there is a 4-star hotel nearby.
15:36<frosch123>hmm, yeah, there are less students in the dev team now :p
15:36<fjb>Dev team is growing old.
15:36<appe>Ammler: it's not a word, it's a northern european name.
15:36<Zuu>And of course some can stay here, but having 15 people sleeping here would probably be quite crowdy :-p
15:37<krinn>Zuu, that's what streets are made for :)
15:38<fjb>Being crowdy?
15:38-!-KritiK [] has joined #openttd
15:38<krinn>yep with guys kicked out from too crowdy kitchen
15:38*andythenorth ponders doing some FIRS or such
15:38*fjb votes for meeting at planetmaker.
15:39<Zuu>There is also a hostel that might fit quite well as it is hosted in railway wagons:
15:40<Zuu>It is going to move as the municipality plan to use tha land for their new municipality building but I can't see on the website that it has been closed down already.
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15:41<@planetmaker>hehe @ fjb|mobile :-)
15:42<Zuu>A meeting at planetmaker is probably more central to most people.
15:42-!-JVassie [~James@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:42<@planetmaker>that's a point which is hard to argue
15:42<Zuu>especially for you ;-)
15:45<Zuu>Here is some pictures of the train hostel:
15:45<appe>a vandrarhem aint that hard to find around here.
15:45<appe>are you going to lund?
15:46*fjb|mobile should visit planetmaker again.
15:46<Zuu>No, I'm already there ^^
15:46<appe>ah :)
15:47<@planetmaker>or I should for a change visit fjb :-)
15:47<@planetmaker>like for a small mountain hike
15:47-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
15:48<fjb|mobile>A hike to the Brocken.
15:49<@planetmaker>joah :-)
15:49<fjb|mobile>Taking pictures of the Harzquerbahn.
15:51<@planetmaker>hm, I think I didn't hike up the Brocken this year so far...
15:54<Zuu>Is Brocken a hill that you hike up from the road?
15:55<frosch123>it's the highest mountain in that area
15:55<@planetmaker>yeah, it's the highest mountain in the Harz mountain range
15:55<frosch123>and has lots of narrow gauge stuff around it
15:55<@planetmaker>even visible from here when we have good weather (and sun light)
15:56<Zuu>It didn't look so much on google maps but then a satelite picture isn't really good at reviling heights and nature.
15:57<Zuu>Even looking on a map over mountains or going there is a large difference.
15:57<Zuu>(a map with actual height curves of course)
15:57<fjb|mobile>There is at least one web cam up there.
15:58<@planetmaker>^ for the narrow gauge fans :-)
15:59<fjb|mobile>Not for mobile devices. :(
16:00<krinn>lmao how ironic from google
16:00<__ln__>Zuu: southern sweden is not *that* far away from central europe anyway
16:01<Zuu>__ln__: Everything is relative
16:02<Zuu>But it's not like you go here in an hour or two and it costs some money. But Indeed it is closer than further up in scandinavia.
16:02<__ln__>yes.. but like... i google maps routes from Amsterdam to Braunschweig and Lund, and the Lund route is less than 2 times longer.
16:03<krinn>nice vid planetmaker amazing how dark and compact the smoke is when it climb
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16:05<Zuu>talking of mobile IRC, does anyone know a good client for old scool cell phones that run java programs? I tried two but haven't found one that is to my liking. Or does anyone know a site where you can view the logs of this channel in a mobile friendly format?
16:05<Zuu>Eg. one that doesn't require horisontal scrolling.
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16:05<__ln__>Zuu: did you try jmIrc?
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16:06<Zuu>I think so. Let me check what I got on my phone.
16:06<__ln__>that's also the only irc midlet that i've tried, so my experiences are a bit limited
16:07<Zuu>Yea, It's that one. Quite okay, just crashed my phone when I had that one open and opera mini at the same time, but then I guess my phones memory is just too small.
16:07<appe>Markk: you suck!
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16:07<__ln__>Zuu: multitasking? .... such luxuries!
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16:08<Zuu>__ln__: Well, as my phone died, it turned out it didn't work to multitask. But at least opera mini has support for tabbed browsing.
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16:09<fjb|mobile>My phone is faster than the server which I used until last year.
16:09<appe>irc shell servers doesnt really need to be fast at all
16:09<appe>as far as i know
16:10<appe>irssi aint the hardware eating kind
16:10<Pinkbeast>I had a posh Nokia from the last job, which had more CPU than most computers I've owned... which did rather raise the question of why it ran like a drain, with visible screen refreshes
16:11<Pinkbeast>... especially since Symbian's a derivative of EPOC32 which ran fine on the Psion Series 5, which had less CPU than a modern washing machine
16:11<fjb|mobile>The fall of Nokia.
16:12<Pinkbeast>Vexing, isn't it? Especially since before that I had a 6810, which I loved.
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16:13<fjb|mobile>Nokia is in deep trouble.
16:13<__ln__>It is.
16:14*fjb|mobile wonders when Nokia will start to make rubber boots again.
16:15<appe>nokia doesnt even make smartphones, right?
16:15<appe>last thing ive seen didnt even have third party software support
16:15<appe>or any sort of market
16:15<appe>or file manager
16:16<fjb|mobile>They are making smartphones.
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16:18<__ln__>Only not very smart ones by today's standards.
16:18<__ln__>I'm looking forward to the N9 though.
16:18<appe>i tried a N97, and it was like using an android phone without the android
16:20<__ln__>Some review(s) say that the N9 would have been the iPhone killer if it had been released two years ago.
16:21<__ln__>And... It is not quite in stores yet, but hopefully next month or something.
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16:39<@Terkhen>new meeting already? :P
16:42<__ln__>Terkhen: southern sweden can't be far away from spain which is also south, right?
16:44<krinn>well, closer than passing by north pole, but that must be all
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16:46<Zuu>Well, a quick measurement on google maps says that it is the same distance for me to the north end of sweden as to south spain. That said, it might not be true on a earth globe due to projection etc.
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16:47<Zuu>not really all way down to the south shore of spain, but well south of Madrid.
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16:48<@Terkhen>still pretty far :P
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16:49<__ln__>Lund-Karesuando 1921km, Lund-Madrid 2544km (by road)
16:49<JVassie>anyone familiar with the oftc chanserv?
16:49<Mellanvarld>Zuu: globe mesurements say andorra...
16:49<JVassie>how would i go about adding someone to accesslis pls?
16:50<krinn>disneyland looks closer for everyone :)
16:51<Zuu>Mellanvarld: okay
16:51<JVassie>hey krinn
16:51<krinn>hi JVassie :)
16:51<JVassie>forum for the game im developing
16:51<JVassie>if your interested in getting involved at all :)
16:53<krinn>i doubt you'll going to make that all in squirrel :)
16:54<@Terkhen>squirrel is the scripting language used in OpenTTD AIs
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16:55<JVassie>good thing im not coding it in squirrel then ;)
16:55<JVassie>Terkhen: do you know how to add someone to channel accesslist on oftc? :p
16:55<@Terkhen>I don't even know what is an accesslist
16:55<Zuu>Oh, their website say Squirrel 3.0 is out. Duno what major changes there are.
16:56<@Terkhen>my irc skills are quite poor :)
16:56<JVassie>Yexo? planetmaker? :p
16:56<krinn>Zuu, brand new it seems
16:57<@Terkhen>"performance tuning" for squirrel 3.1 seems interesting
16:57<@planetmaker> /cs add #blah member nickname-or-similar
16:57<Zuu>krinn: Have you found any release note for it?
16:57<@Terkhen>the changelog is hidden somewhere?
16:57<JVassie>thx pm :)
16:58<@planetmaker>no guarantee. I seldom use it and have to look it up everytime
16:58<krinn>Zuu, not yet, i'm looking at it, just found speed/optimize improvment but for 3.1 :)
16:58<JVassie>doesnt work :p
16:58<@planetmaker> /cs help is your friend
16:58<JVassie>cs help si lacking
16:58<JVassie>no help for add command
16:58<@planetmaker>there is
16:58<JVassie>-ChanServ- HELP for add is not available.
16:58<^Spike^>i guess it's /chanserv access #channel add name
16:58<^Spike^>long time since i worked with an access list
16:58<@Terkhen> <--- I found the changelog
16:58<@Terkhen>it seems... lacking
16:59<^Spike^>else just ask around in #oftc
16:59<@Terkhen>maybe it is just a changelog from the RC
16:59<krinn>Terkhen, just change log from RC1
16:59<Zuu>krinn: If you download the 3.0 package, it has a file called "HISTORY" that contains some sort of changelog.
16:59<@Terkhen>this is confusing
16:59<@Terkhen>oh, I'll check that then
17:02<krinn>i see ::func now must be (func)
17:02<JVassie>#oftc is about as responsive as an empty channel ^Spike^ :x
17:03*^Spike^ sighes...
17:03<^Spike^>you sound like most ppl i help on a irc server somewhere else...
17:03<^Spike^>must answer within 5 mins or else it sucks
17:03<JVassie>didnt say it sucks
17:03<JVassie>i just said it was unresponsive ;)
17:04<JVassie>chanserv is odd on oftc
17:04<JVassie>not very intuitive
17:04<^Spike^>i bet 99% of the people wait.. evne better 100% do it on a voluntary basis and get paid 0 it's not a paid job helping people
17:04<^Spike^>it's like regular chanserv to me in most channel commands
17:04<^Spike^>in the most used area that is
17:04<@Terkhen>that story sounds familiar somehow :)
17:05<^Spike^>else another hint: /chanserv help access and /chanserv help access add
17:05<^Spike^>oh and help in general without those additions
17:07*planetmaker hugs ^Spike^
17:07<JVassie>planetmaker: have i missed much re. CETS btw?
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17:08<@planetmaker>others have been quite active
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17:10<krinn>-fixed bug in functions with default parameters (thx ara & Yexo) :D
17:10<frosch123>Zuu: krinn: yexo took a look at squirrel 3 some time ago
17:11<frosch123>iirc there are multiple things which are incompatible with 2 and would break all ais or so
17:11<krinn>i see, a good look it seems, that last one i've put was from history file of 3.0
17:11<@planetmaker>^ that's what I recall, too
17:11<frosch123>krinn: there are multiple buxfixes in squirrel 2 contributed by ottd devs :)
17:11<Zuu>Yea, I don't relly count on it being implemented for OpenTTD. It was more like "oh what have they changed"
17:11<krinn>looks like a bad release for me
17:12<krinn>no real improvments, only fix mostly 64bits version, a 2.5 would have been ok
17:13<Zuu>I also understand Yexo has put quite some time into combating with the Squrrel internals, and throwing that out just to upgrade to 3.0 doesn't sound very nice.
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17:13<krinn>and some really nasty things are there : -removed 'vargv' and 'vargc' keywords
17:13<frosch123>the squirrel version was updated multiple times in ottd
17:13<Zuu>For a language, I think going to a new version number should really be used for cases when you need to break backward compatibility.
17:14<frosch123>just that version 3 makes syntaxtical changes which would break all ais
17:14<Zuu>And the 3.0 does have some changes like that. Just as frosch123 has mentioned.
17:14<JVassie>whoever added random rivers to nightly is legendary :p
17:15<frosch123>JVassie: blame rb
17:16<appe>so, when's openttd going to start working with personal wages?
17:17<__ln__>with what?
17:17<JVassie>personal wages ofc!
17:18<@planetmaker>appe: I don't see any game play gain in doing so
17:18<Zuu>JVassie: Here's the river commit:
17:18<appe>i just realized i used three words that wasnt even supposed to be there.
17:18*JVassie thanks Rubidium
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17:21<@Terkhen>good night
17:22<krinn>night Terkhen
17:23*krinn is dying under heat, what a hot night
17:23*Zuu dissagrees - just open the window and it gets cold :-p
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17:24<krinn>windows are all open, not even a single breeze
17:24<Zuu>so you have to stay up all night and code on your AI?
17:25<krinn>doing an hard work with trains yes
17:25<Zuu>are you using any existing work on rail building or have you built your own system from g round up?
17:25<krinn>my own
17:26<frosch123>krinn: first mistake, never open windows when it is hot ouside
17:26<frosch123>instead close the rolling shutters
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17:26<krinn>frosch123, it's seriously too hot to kept them close
17:26<krinn>and it's night, i close them by day
17:26<frosch123>it's hotter inside than outside?
17:27<krinn>but it must be near 36C
17:27<frosch123>then you should turn of the heating :p
17:27<krinn>the computer doesn't help, and my old screens are good heaters too
17:28<Zuu>have you tried to use any interesting concepts in the rail building?
17:29<JVassie>such as? :)
17:29<krinn>sharing station
17:29<krinn>making them grow, able to use both side if need
17:30<Zuu>Sounds interesting.
17:30<JVassie>realistic i hope? :)
17:30<krinn>and a huge work on creating trains, i can now use any trains with any wagons, in any refit versions of them and the ai learn over time the best combo
17:31<krinn>i have also put an aesthetic feature for trains/wagons combo
17:31<krinn>and done my best to build nice rails (without rails that aren't connect to anywhere)
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17:33<Zuu>Sounds like you've spent quite a lot of time on it. ^^
17:33<krinn>a huge amount yes
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17:34<krinn>but for now i've just force platform kept to 1
17:34<Zuu>I've not made any efforts to use rail other than thinking slightly about reusing someone else code.
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17:34<krinn>i must say i'm proud of the refit part
17:34<__ln__>10 degrees out, 22 degrees inside, i think i'll go to sleep
17:38<pjpe>would placing a lot of buoys lower the cpu time for ship pathfinding?
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17:39<Zuu>pjpe: Yes
17:39<Zuu>At least if you actually include the buyos in the orders ;-)
17:39<pjpe>of course
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19:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the last time i was on the Brocken must have been 1990-ish
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>right after it got accessible by the general public
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>the train didn't go up there yet
19:26<frosch123>hmm, 2001, also ten years ago for me :p
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>i was near there afterwards, but not actually on the top
19:27<frosch123>well, but since i am not living there for 3 years anymore,
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---Logclosed Sun Sep 04 00:00:38 2011