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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-09-07

---Logopened Wed Sep 07 00:00:35 2011
00:34<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:01<@Terkhen>hi dihedral
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03:42<dihedral>\o/ managed to introduce jabber at work :-)
03:43<Noldo>we have irc
03:44<dihedral>i mainly need it to not have to constantly call the homeoffice guys
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04:23<@peter1138>Date: 18-11-4391
04:23<@peter1138>restart? :p
04:26<@Terkhen>you are still far away from that server in 18592
04:26<@Terkhen>your server is young :P
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05:03<doctor_d>hi! i'm stuck with a newgrf translation issue, can someone help please?
05:03<@planetmaker>that depends
05:04<doctor_d>ok, the point is i downloaded a translation file from the firs repository.... and my question is: and now?
05:04<@Terkhen>you downloaded english.lng?
05:04<@planetmaker>translate it?
05:04<@Terkhen>if so, then translate it and attach it to the FIRS development thread in the forums
05:04<@Terkhen>but make sure that your language is not translated already :)
05:05<doctor_d>ok ok i got that
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05:05<doctor_d>but the problem is another
05:05<doctor_d>i don't know where to put the *.lng file in order to play with the trlanslated newgrf... i know, i'm a newbie...
05:06<@Terkhen>to test your translation you need the complete framework to compile FIRS again
05:06<@Terkhen>FIRS development versions are also compiled every day at about 18:00
05:07<@Terkhen>so if you paste your translation to the thread, the next development version after it is compiled will feature your translation already
05:07<@Terkhen>sorry, in the last sentence I meant committed, not compiled
05:08<doctor_d>so i can't download just the translation i need and manually add to the game, can i?
05:08<Swissfan91>does anyone know of a building drawing tutorial? or have any tips of drawing roofs for me?
05:08<@Terkhen>but all translations included in FIRS source are also inside FIRS
05:09<@Terkhen>no need to add them unless you change something
05:10<doctor_d>ok thanks, and one other question, if i download the source code, how can i compile it?
05:11<@Terkhen> <--- if you are using windows that should help you
05:16<doctor_d>ok thanks, even though it's quite out of my league ^_^
05:16<@Terkhen>yes, it is quite complicated to setup
05:18<doctor_d>one last thing and i won't bother you anymore
05:20<doctor_d>if a language file is already provided to FIRS team, what must i do to use the translated version?
05:21<@planetmaker>use a new enough firs and have openttd use that language?
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05:21<@Terkhen>once a translation is provided, we include it in FIRS source and the next development version (and future stables based on those versions) will include it
05:22<@planetmaker>(provided that the language file was already commited by a firs team member)
05:24<doctor_d>i think i got where the problem is. i'll try using a snapshot build or wait for the next stable. anyway it's not a big deal playing in english
05:28<doctor_d>ok thank you very much, have a nice day!
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07:53<andythenorth>George: hi hi
07:54<andythenorth>there are smaller mining trucks which will fit better
07:54<andythenorth>I'll pm them to you
07:57<andythenorth>George: pm sent
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08:09<George>Is that truck available in HEQS ?
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08:24<@planetmaker>I really love your new mine, George :-)
08:25<@planetmaker>yes, that truck size is better
08:26<@planetmaker>but they shouldn't transport strawberry chewing gum ;-)
08:27<George>and what colour do you expect for bauxite?
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>colour is fine, i think, but could maybe use a little more texture
08:28<George>I do not draw it, I copypaste it from 1960s_dump_truck_2_axle.pcx [71.37 KiB] from andy. If you think the other colour should be copypasted, let me know which one
08:29<George>I do not draw cargo in truck
08:29<Eddi|zuHause>then that should probably go to andy :)
08:30<@planetmaker>IMHO the colour should be more orange than pink
08:32<George>do you have 1960s_dump_truck_2_axle.pcx? If yes, what line do you mean?
08:32<George>I suppose the last one is for sand, so this one is bauxite
08:33<@planetmaker>George, I don't necessarily mean to use a particular colouring of andy ;-)
08:33<@planetmaker>you're probably right that it's supposed to show bauxite
08:34<@planetmaker>I mean... look at the rock your mine shows. Then look at the trucks
08:34<@planetmaker>That material cannot be dug out from that mine
08:34<George>But if andy would provide new graphics for his truck with bauxite, I shall replace it
08:34<@planetmaker>The material the trucks transport should be the one from that mine, i.e. same shade of colours
08:35<@planetmaker>it's a surface mine
08:35<George>What do you suggest? To make the mine more pink? I tried that already, it does not look well
08:35<@planetmaker>yes. Thus I suggest to colour the trucks cargo according to your mine :-)
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>look at the picture, the mine is more yellow-ish while the truckload is more pink-ish
08:36<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, yes, that's because it's taken in broken hill
08:36<@planetmaker>where the bauxite comes from a sub-surface mine
08:36<@planetmaker>but the surrounding rock on the surface looks like that
08:38<George>But wouldn't it look strange, if the truck in mine has the other cargo colour than a truck loading nearby?
08:38<@planetmaker>maybe. But what's more strange: a truck in a mine with something which cannot be dug there or the latter where the vehicle sets could adjust?
08:39<@planetmaker>or where one could assume some sorting process already has been done
08:39<@planetmaker>well. In the end you decide. But I find the pink cargo in the orange mine quite strange
08:40<@planetmaker>possibly one could go for a compromise: more pinkish sand and more orange-ish cargo
08:40<Eddi|zuHause>compromise: keep the colour of the (flat) ground like it is, but make the colour of the (sloped) wall slightly more red-pink-ish
08:40<@planetmaker>would work
08:40<@planetmaker>and the cargo of the truck less pinkish ;-)
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08:52<George>I'd suggest also to change the cargo colour for bauxite for all vehicles set
08:53<@planetmaker>yes. Strawberry is not the best colour for it ;-)
08:54<@planetmaker>raspberry actually
08:54<George>Can you draw the better colours?
08:55<Rubidium>give him a large box of coloured sticks and I guess he can draw a better colour
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09:16<George>this is waht Michael suggested
09:17<@planetmaker>I'm not sure about the sand colours, but the ore colours would fit ;-)
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09:39<@planetmaker>I'd possibly switch ore and bauxite there :-)
09:39<@planetmaker>but that might be... too big a change
09:39<George>planetmaker: what do you think? IMHO we can discuss and come to agreement at least for ECS/FIRS/HEQS/LV
09:40<@planetmaker>include opengfx* into that
09:40<@planetmaker>which I can adopt, too
09:40<George>planetmaker: > but that might be... too big a change - if we would o an agreement, I would do the change for ECS/LV/xUSSR set
09:40<@Terkhen>reaching an agreement would be good :)
09:41<@Terkhen>besides that I can't say much; colours are difficult for me :P
09:42<George>Yes. But we need more suggestions. As for me, MBs suggestion does not look right. I'll try to make my suggestion today evening
09:42<@planetmaker>IMHO sand is a bit pale and could be more yellow-ish
09:42<George>Didn't we miss any cargo?
09:43<@planetmaker>but we'd need to pay attention to not confuse it with grain / sulphur
09:43<@planetmaker>oil seeds is good, I think
09:43<@planetmaker>lime stone and potash, too, I recon
09:43*Terkhen does not remember adding support to sulphur and potash in opengfx+ road vehicles
09:44<@planetmaker>nor do I, but...
09:44*Terkhen tests
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09:49<@Terkhen>according to the wiki, potash is a planned cargo for the Chemical Vector, and sulphur a cargo of the ECS Basic Vector for Arctic, which is outdated
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>i don't suppose refitting can change railtype of a vehicle
09:49<@Terkhen>which explains why I missed those cargos while checking ECS :)
09:50<@planetmaker>hm, what's their current status, George? ^
09:51<George>In the low priority plan
09:53<@planetmaker>comparing iron ore and bauxite on google image search suggests to me that maybe on a very rough average, iron ore is a bit more orange than bauxite - but both look very similar
09:54<@Terkhen>since potash and sulphur only require recolouring, I don't mind adding them to opengfx+ road vehicles... two more in a long list of cargos won't hurt :P
10:06<George>FIRS has gravel and clay?
10:06<@planetmaker>stone rather than gravel. But yes
10:06<@planetmaker>clay also
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10:19<@Terkhen> <---- does it look too big for that truck?
10:21<@planetmaker>I think it works
10:21<@Terkhen>ok :)
10:22<@Terkhen>I'll add a few other variations so it has some randomization
10:22<@Terkhen>most of the vehicles have roughly the same size
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10:55<Eddi|zuHause>Ryanair is a perfect example of ultracapitalism
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>going to some tiny airports, scraping off every government funding they can find, and if that runs out, leave scorched earth behind
10:56<larsie>indeed. ultracapitalism rox. it made tycoon.
10:56<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: exactly. and people love it.
10:56<larsie>its funny that socialists play tycoon.
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>not everything that people love is actually good for them.
10:57<larsie>no, but people need to understand this them self
10:57<larsie>you cannot controll men.
10:57<larsie>its impossible.
10:57<larsie>its not how we are created.
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes, we are, we do learn from other people.
10:57<larsie>Eddi|zuHause, didn't you see 'das leben der anderen'
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: didn't you see "by machines of loving grace"?
10:58<larsie>no, haven't seen that one. 2 sec
10:59<Elukka>i like how ryanair would have people stand in airplanes, if those evil government regulations did not forbid them from doing so
10:59<larsie>not easy to find a trailer for it.
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: it's a 3-part documentation
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10:59<larsie>Elukka, well, if it made it cheaper for people - why not. then we have choice.
11:00<larsie>ikea, wall-mart, europris and such stores have done more for poor people than govt. have ever done.
11:00<Elukka>if one wants to have a functional society, the government has to regulate corporations
11:01<Elukka>someone's also got to regulate the government which is troublesome
11:01<larsie>thats the least thing you want, Elukka.
11:01<larsie>no. this is what make men without an heart.
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: everything that capitalism has ever done to poor people is keep them poor
11:01<larsie>only way for poor people to be rich is to work.
11:01<larsie>capitalism legalizes work.
11:02<larsie>socialisms forbids it.
11:02<larsie>you need to search and talk with people so you can do ur job.
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>now that is the most stupid definition i have ever heard :p
11:02<larsie>and govt. have become a fascistic place to be. the richest people have contacts, which makes them less chance to loose the competition
11:03<Elukka>you can see how rampant capitalism makes the poor poorer and the rich richer... modern america is like a textbook case
11:03<larsie>Lobbyism have killed the market.
11:03<larsie>yes, cause modern america ain't pure capitalism. in pure capitalism taxes and regulation of behaviour which doesnt inflicts harm to other is forbidden.
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>how is lobbyism not a market?
11:03<larsie>cause its trumphes the market.
11:04<larsie>The little guy cannot with ease deliver his goods.
11:04<larsie>to the market thus earning his living.
11:04<@planetmaker>and how do taxes contradict capitalism?
11:04<larsie>taxes are theft.
11:04<Elukka>the united states' gini coefficient (inqueality of wealth distribution) is on par with many african nations
11:04<larsie>stealing is forbidden in capitalism.
11:04<@Terkhen>once I get a work, I'll make sure to come back here and tell you guys how rich I have become :P
11:04<Elukka>many developing nations have it better, even
11:05<larsie>african nations are those who gets most help the last 40 years, but this is the continent that have lowered their GDP
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: and how exactly do you want to enforce that rule without a government?
11:05<Elukka>higher number is worse
11:05<larsie>those who find it interesting enforcing property does so. ofcourse I'm for legalizing automatic rifles to the people.
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: africa is a perfect example how the capitalistic sense of "helping" means "keep them poor"
11:05<larsie>No. its hardcore socialism in africa.
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: there's a great book: "confessions of an economic hitman" (or so)
11:06<larsie>in somalia, if you cut your beard - the govt. cuts of your arm. is this capitalism? I say not
11:06<larsie>Eddi|zuHause, yea, i've heard about it and in pure capitalism it wouldnt happen.
11:06<@Terkhen>incredible, I'll just go back to coding :P
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11:06<larsie>basic point is: all are egoists. even those who claim they are not.
11:07<larsie>Terkhen good choice. being egoist is the way, life and truth. :)
11:07<Elukka>i love how pure capitalists think it's less ethical to redistribute a part of their wealth than it is to have the poor die
11:07<@planetmaker>you're not advocating capitalism. You're advocating the power to the strongest. Anarchy basically
11:07<larsie>Elukka, its not their fault that they die.
11:07<@Terkhen>nah, it's just that this conversation reached a point of senselessness that I can't grasp
11:07<larsie>Elukka, yes, i'm anarcho-capitalist, or libertarian if you will.
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: you have missed last night? :p
11:08<@Terkhen>I never read the night backlog when it is very long
11:08<@planetmaker>yeah... the epic return... of epic 'debates'
11:08<@Terkhen>usually you never say anything useful :P
11:08<Elukka>well, going back to coding is certainly more productive .P
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>that perfectly applies to this case :p
11:09<larsie>Elukka, more productive? hmmms? isn't that the seed of fruitfulness? :)
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: if the goal is high productivity, social market clearly trumps both ultracapitalsm and ultrasocialism
11:11<larsie>social market?
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>that's why Germany stands much better than USA after the 2008 crisis
11:12<larsie>Obama is a one-time president. US is to valuable to throw them self for socialism.
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: it's a hybrid system. less free than the free market, less social than socialism. it's a system that worked very well for western europe during the cold war
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>with the destruction of socialism in the 1990s, this model is quickly decaying, though
11:13<larsie>Well. You could remove all those who creates work and imagine what you are left with.
11:13<larsie>socialism is being build again.
11:13<larsie>yuo got carbon taxes.
11:13<larsie>the new world currency.
11:14<larsie>you cannot buy or sell without it.
11:14<Elukka>in pure capitalism, i'd be homeless right now and several people i know would be dead
11:14<larsie>its prophesized in the bible of those times.
11:14<larsie>maybe, or you may had it much better.
11:14<larsie>I don't know.
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>omg, now he's a bible-capitalist
11:15<+glx>oh we're back in time
11:15<larsie> This guy foresaw the economical crisis.
11:15<Elukka>it is currently yesterday night
11:16<larsie>you cannot avoid truth. he he.
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>you must be a moron to not "forsee a crisis"
11:16<larsie>Yea, well. Many people are in such case a moron.
11:16<Eddi|zuHause>crisis happen all the time. just saying "there comes a crisis" doesn't make you a visionary
11:16<larsie>No, but if you watch the clip he explains why.
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>i could as well say "you die".
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>and after you died, i say "i told you so"
11:17<larsie>Legalize production of currency will help alot.
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>how is that helping?
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>banks inventing their own money is exactly what caused the crisis
11:18<larsie>Then people can choose which currency they will use.
11:18<Elukka>this month, leaves will fall from the trees!
11:18<Elukka>i am basically nostradamus
11:19<larsie>Its unavoidable that if men are not allowed to produce, it will be a bad harvesting.
11:20<larsie>Production are done by egoism. that men want production for them self and others they like.
11:20<@Terkhen>oh, the irony
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: men are not only egoists, they are also lazy.
11:21<larsie>Yes. Especially when they dont need to work for their living.
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>larsie: government's job is to make these lazy people work, when capitalism fails to do so
11:23<larsie>Its the otherway around.
11:23<larsie>I understand why people don't work when they know that 80-90% of their money are going back to the mafia state govt.
11:23<larsie>Govt. doesnt produce anything. It's private people who does.
11:24<Hirundo>try producing if said govt doesn't create a road to the factory
11:24<Hirundo>or educate the workers
11:24<Hirundo>or provide treatment to ill workers
11:24<larsie>Hirundo, so you are saying that men are not interested in roads or education?
11:24<Hirundo>or.... well you get the point
11:24<larsie>Yes, and it's a fallacy.
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>good example: compare american (private) railway system with german (public, mostly) railway system
11:25<@planetmaker>could we move to #capitalism ?
11:25<@Terkhen>yes, the world is black and white :P
11:25<Hirundo>no it's not
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>which one do you think works better?
11:25<@Terkhen>and yes, go to #capitalism
11:25<@Terkhen>this conversation is really offtopic, specially in a channel that starts with #open :P
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11:28<Elukka>think there's something more i could do?
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11:29<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, in the slightly angled view, the right could do with 2 dark lines, not only 1
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>the pixels on the very low right stick out a bit, might make those magic blue
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>and move the wheels 1 pixel outwards, to match with the straight view
11:30<Elukka>you mean the dark line where the coach would be attached to another?
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11:30<Elukka>that's easy enough
11:30<Elukka>the wheels already touch the rails, i'm not sure where i could move them
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>the middle wheel doesn't look exactly in the middle to me
11:34<Elukka>can't see any way to make it better though
11:34<Elukka>the old lower version is essentially the other option
11:34<Eddi|zuHause>just move the wheel 1 pixel to the right
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11:52<Eddi|zuHause>hm, better, but something's still not right...
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>need to think about it
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>do you have the complete unscaled image?
11:52<Elukka>with all the sprites?
11:53<Elukka>btw in the older version the wheel placement is the same except one pixel down
11:55<Elukka>here's the full thing in original scale as it stands now, but i haven't tweaked most of the sprites yet
11:57<Elukka>i appreciate the crits, i'm sure the next sprite will be slighty more painless since this is my first try at drawing sprites for anything :D
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12:41<Tatsh>planetmaker, while the patch to cctools is quite large, it does consistently work so what i've built is essentially a series of otherwise small patches for gcc and llvm-gcc that will enable them to compile on Linux
12:41<Tatsh> my instructions now involve downloading cctools, gcc, and llvm-gcc from Apple
12:42<Tatsh>and now there's iphone support as well
12:51<@planetmaker>sounds good :-)
12:51<Tatsh>i'm testing out Qt at the moment
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13:04<@planetmaker>George: great composition. I'll add OpenGFX colours to it
13:05<@planetmaker>And maybe we also add sugar beets and fruits?
13:06-!-|Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
13:06<TrueBrain>hmm .. fruits ...
13:06<@Terkhen>and chocolate :)
13:06<frosch123>tomatos is still not released :p
13:07<LordAro>how would i go about replacing [FS#<a-four-digit-number>] with {{Flyspray|<the-same-four-digit-number>}} ? (automatically, obviously :) )
13:07<@Terkhen>I remember that strange commit
13:08<@Terkhen>eventually I knew what was bananas, but tomatos is still a mistery
13:08<@Terkhen>it was around that commit when I started checking the commit log
13:09<frosch123>LordAro: you would run a bot applying a regular expression replacement like "s/\[FS#([0-9 ]*)\]/{{Flyspray|\1}}/"
13:10<LordAro>hmm... something to do with a text editor would've been better... :)
13:10<frosch123>then use a texteditor which knows about regular expressions
13:11<frosch123>every advanced editor is able to do that
13:11<+glx>notepad++ knowns that IIRC
13:12<LordAro>notepad++ is very useful atm :)
13:12<+glx>or something similar
13:12<+glx>visual studio can do it too (with a different syntax)
13:12<frosch123>no idea, notepad++ is said to be one of the best editors for windows. so, if it does not know about regex, that might be poor for windows :p
13:16<LordAro>frosch123/glx: works perfectly :)
13:17<LordAro>i was about to complain about it not working, but i noticed that i'd missed a '\'
13:24*Zuu start to wonder if "views" shouldn't be named "layouts" or "rotations" in the NoAI API.
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13:25<frosch123>rotations would be misleading
13:27<Zuu>More misleading than "views"?
13:31<@planetmaker>as in principle the tile layout can be completely different and there can be many views with the same statemachine's rotation
13:31<Zuu>Isn't tile layout just visuals?
13:32<Zuu>Anyway, having more than one rotation of the same type doesn't seem more alien to me than the fact that going straight in an intersection is a "turn" in many traffic applications :-)
13:32<@planetmaker>It defines which tiles are occupied by the object / airport / industry
13:33<@planetmaker>so it's definitely more than visual
13:33<Zuu>Yep, indeed
13:33<Zuu>Would layout be a better name?
13:33<LordAro>Alberth: i'm guessing you haven't noticed my pm yet ;)
13:33<@planetmaker>but it doesn't really matter really...
13:34<@planetmaker>it could also be the same layout, just rotated and with different sprites ;-)
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13:34<@planetmaker>personally I'd prefer 'layout' slightly
13:34<@planetmaker>also for objects it's ... a bit a limitation to call it views and limit it to 1,2 or 4 in the expectations to see it as rotations
13:35<V453000>how amazing is it when you write on a forum a post saying "Hi, I draw this, [description], would someone like to help?" And you get a reply "Do you draw it, I would like to play."
13:35<Zuu>I guess 'layout' is slightly more suggesting that it can have different state machines than 'view', but apart from that, I like 'layout' better than 'view'.
13:35<@planetmaker>that's normal
13:35<@planetmaker>^ @ V
13:35<V453000>it surprised the hell of me :D
13:35<V453000>true that I know that that person is ... uhm ... not in the best shape of mind
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13:36<V453000>well, czech forums ....
13:37<@Alberth>LordAro: I noticed, but not opened the attachment yet, I am busy getting a piece of software up & running.
13:38<Zuu>planetmaker: However, using consistent naming for different areas is probably helpful and if the name 'view' has already been established in the NewGRF spec, then it might be better to stick to it.
13:38<@planetmaker>Zuu: as has been layout
13:38<@planetmaker>it's the older name even
13:38<Zuu>So both names are used for the same thing?
13:39<@planetmaker>airports and objects call it views
13:39<@planetmaker>industries call it layouts
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13:39<@planetmaker>industries just have no visual feedback, such that the user can choose
13:39<@planetmaker>but technially that's the same behind the scenes
13:39<@Alberth>Zuu: you are talking about newgrf specs, those are non-consistent, almost by definition :)
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13:40<Zuu>Well, I'll see, maybe I get around to rename views to layouts later. For now I'm more excited about implementing support for them in the API :-)
13:41-!-DarkSide [] has joined #openttd
13:43<DarkSide>hi all
13:44<Zuu>An argument for using 'layout' over 'view' is that in the OpenTTD source code it is called a layout.
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22903 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt english_US.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: czech - 2 changes by TheLamer
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: english_US - 7 changes by Rubidium
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13:49<frosch123>airports are more like industries, so i would prefer "layout"
13:50<frosch123>objects are totally different to industries and airports
13:52<LordAro>where can i find the sourceforge bug list? (i know it's not used, it for the wiki)
13:53<@Terkhen>why do you want to put bug reports on the wiki?
13:53<@Alberth>it is highly obsolete, why would you want to add it to the wiki?
13:54<LordAro>they are already there, i just want a template that links to them
13:54<@Alberth>better delete them :)
13:54<LordAro>e.g. here
13:56<valhallasw>but it has been disabled
13:56<LordAro>just found it, apparently so
13:57<@planetmaker> <-- george
13:58<@Alberth>0.5.2 oh man, that's old :)
13:58<LordAro>i've done all the newer ones :)
13:58<@planetmaker>it's about when I started discovering this game
13:59<@Alberth>yeah, me too :)
13:59<LordAro>he, 0.4.8 for me :) but didn't touch it again until 0.6.3-ish
14:00<@planetmaker>I've a 0.4.8 version somewhere... but I was surprised when I found it ;-)
14:00<LordAro>i shall just ignore the sourceforge bugfixes in the changelog then
14:00<@Terkhen>around 0.6.x :P
14:01<LordAro>looking at the changelog, its fun how much were 'features' which nowadays would just be 'add'
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14:03<LordAro>also how many 'features' were included in the bugfix releases
14:03<LordAro>hi andythenorth
14:04<LordAro>also, 'codechange' (then) == 'change' (now)
14:05<@Terkhen>software archaeology
14:06<@Alberth>read a piece about that too, except that was about use of computers to assist in real archeology :)
14:06<@Terkhen>my project was about that :P
14:07<LordAro>woah, is a complete mess
14:07<@planetmaker>LordAro: we still do a lot of code changes
14:08<@planetmaker>There's a clear difference between change and codechange
14:08<@planetmaker>a codechange never affects behaviour
14:08<LordAro>i know, but seemingly not then: "Codechange: Disable shares by default and increase the default maximum distance from edge for oil refineries (r9339) "
14:08<@Terkhen>urgh :P
14:08<@planetmaker>urgs indeed
14:10<@Alberth>LordAro: it is in the changelog too :)
14:10<@planetmaker>hi andythenorth
14:14<Zuu>planetmaker: In OpenTTD, an AirportSpec have a width and a height and one or more layouts. Each layout have a direction. If two different layouts have considerable different size, shouldn't there be a size_x and size_y for each layout?
14:15<@planetmaker>Zuu: a layout can be irregular
14:15<Zuu>Yes, but even ignoring that, it is strange that the size is per airport and not per layout.
14:15<@planetmaker>ogfx+airports' layouts are not all pure rectangles
14:16<@planetmaker>indeed, that is
14:16<Zuu>For irregular airports, there will need to be a way to get a tile list of yet to be built airports.
14:16<Zuu>Still, being able to get a bounding box for each layout would be useful.
14:17<@planetmaker>you're probably right
14:17<@planetmaker>thus the function probably best would work with layout# as parameter
14:18<@planetmaker>and maybe a special layout# which indicates max(i=0...N layouts)
14:18<Zuu>I'm already doing that for the NoAI API and picking the right X/Y variable depending on the rotation, but for different sized layouts that is going to fail.
14:18<Zuu>I guess the size_x and size_y is the bounding box of the largest layout.
14:23<@planetmaker>that'd be very mis-leading for an l-shaped layout :-)
14:23<@planetmaker>which I consider highly likely to appear when we have custom statemachines
14:23<Zuu>Btw, for irregular airports, eg. GetMinimalAirportDistanceToTile (station_cmd.cpp) will have to change to work with tile layouts instead of bounding boxes.
14:25<Zuu>It now doesn't seem to take rotated layouts into account if I read it correctly.
14:26<Zuu>It takes an AirportSpec, town tile and north airport tile as arguments. An AirportSpec contains all layouts thus the function doesn't have enaugh arguments to deal with layouts.
14:26*Zuu thinks it's time to write a bug report so it doesn't get forgetten
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14:46<Zuu> <--- report
14:48<Zuu>I have no idea if size_x and size_y are computed or read from the NewGRF. In both cases it can be abused by a NewGRF today :-)
14:52<Tatsh>meh, cross compilers; don't expect to build big stuff like Qt ;)
14:53<Tatsh>Qt's complicated C++ is really putting it to the test; collect2 is generating incorrect assembly
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14:54*Alberth would expect boost to be much more of a problem
14:58<Tatsh>it's better to build it on the original machine and just copy over because those will be multi-arch; i haven't yet got the cross compiler to be multilib
14:58<Tatsh>but you can build each binary separately with each separate compiler than use lipo to combine the binaries together (or libs)
14:58<@Alberth>argh, multi-arch binaries :(
14:59<Tatsh>i'm only playing with the idea; in reality i'll just isntall Qt libs via nokia's installer on my mac then copy them over
15:00<@planetmaker>Alberth: we do that every day ;-)
15:00<@Alberth>planetmaker: not at my system :)
15:01<LordAro>"[19:09:49] <@Alberth> LordAro: it is in the changelog too :)" <-- indeed, as the page is just the changelog copied across :P
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15:04<Rubidium>as if much runs really natively lately... *especially* on Intel x86 processors
15:04<Zuu>Woho, first non-zero index layout/view built by an AI :-)
15:09<@Alberth>jvm does not run natively? ;)
15:09<LordAro>Zuu: screenie?
15:10<Zuu>Not yet, but I will soon publish a new copy of my patch-queue and then probably a screenshot.
15:10<Zuu>Does there exist a convinient/automated way to export a hg patch queue?
15:11<Zuu>Just take the patches form .hg/patches/.. and rename them to have .patch?
15:11<Zuu>Still, I will probably have to remove the changes to the project files..
15:12*Alberth always gives them a .patch extension while creating them :)
15:12<Zuu>Alberth: Good tip
15:12*planetmaker names them *.diff ;-)
15:13<LordAro>zuu: hg export?
15:13<LordAro>not that i'm an expert with mercurial
15:13<@Alberth>And I also start with a few numbers, like "10" "20" etc so the order is easy to determine (and 'ls' does the right thing)
15:13<@planetmaker>Zuu: in an existing queue use hg qrefresh
15:13<@planetmaker>or hg qmv
15:13<Zuu>qrefresh wouldn't it just update the current patch file?
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15:14<@planetmaker>what do you mean with 'export'?
15:14<@Alberth>eg "10_add_doxygen.patch"
15:14<Zuu>something that is suitable to upload to the forums.
15:14<@Alberth>Zuu: use tar or zip or so
15:14<@planetmaker>Zuu: the individual patches from .hg/patches are quite suitable, aren't they?
15:14<Tatsh>non-native needs to die
15:14<LordAro>Zuu: "hg diff -r qparent" - outputs all patches in 1 diff
15:14<@planetmaker>hm... I'd not recommend tar and zip
15:15<Tatsh>wine > virtualbox + windows
15:15<@planetmaker>harder to read :-)
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15:15<Rubidium>Alberth: given that x86 ops are an intermediate language for recent Intel x86 CPUs, no... it doesn't run really natively
15:15<Zuu>LordAro: That would make reviewing tha patches harder.
15:15<@Alberth>Tatsh: no java, C#, .net, python, perl, and many other languages?
15:15<Tatsh>Rubidium, which recent CPUs?
15:15<Tatsh>keep anything that doesn't use a JIT
15:16<LordAro>Zuu: i would just zip the .hg/patches dir then
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15:16<Rubidium>Tatsh: anything with microcode
15:17<@Alberth>so what was the last processor that does not have that? :p
15:17<@Alberth>maybe an ARM processor?
15:18<Zuu>Oh, and if anyone has been annoyed that they can't pipe output to the Windows copy memory, I have written a small utility for that. I find it quite useful :-)
15:19<Zuu>Eg "hg qseries | cin" and then go and paste it in the browser.
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15:32<Ammler>Zuu: use from and then "hg qseries | lodgeit"
15:35<LordAro>that was fun...
15:40<Zuu>Ammler: Cool, I'll see if it exist in Cygwin some day. For now I've just sticked my program on the internet so that I can grab it when I need it.
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15:41<@planetmaker>Zuu, it's obviously a python script... it should work on all OS which have python installed
15:41-!-literal is now known as Hinrik
15:41<Hinrik>long time no see
15:41<Hinrik>haven't been here in years
15:43<@Terkhen>hi Hinrik
15:44<@planetmaker>I'd have to say 'long time no see' doesn't cut it for me... I don't recall a previous one ;-)
15:44<Hinrik>yeah, I don't recognize any of the nicks in here
15:45<@planetmaker>that'd be strange, though ;-)
15:45<@Terkhen>yes, there are some old nicks here too :)
15:45<Hinrik>except maybe orudge
15:46<LordAro>Hinrik: when were you last here?
15:46<Hinrik>hm, maybe around version 0.3
15:46<frosch123>neither hinrik not literal matches anyone in my logs of the past 4 years :p
15:47<LordAro>0.3 is _very_ old :)
15:47<Hinrik>it's definitely been more than that because I added the Icelandic krona, and it has lost considerable value since I did so :)
15:48<Hinrik>130kr == 1 pound when I added it, now it's closer to 190
15:49-!-LordAro [] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia]
15:50<@planetmaker>0.3... that is like stone age ;-)
15:51<@Terkhen>I started at 0.6.3 or so :P
15:51<@Terkhen>@commit 305
15:51<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: Commit by bjarni :: r305 /trunk (os/macos/ (2004-09-21 21:19:08 UTC)
15:51<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: made the shellscripts executable, so the user do not have to do this manually
15:51<@Terkhen>@commit 311
15:51<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: Commit by bjarni :: r311 /trunk (lang/icelandic.txt os/macos/track_starter) (2004-09-23 20:12:51 UTC)
15:51<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: Added incomplete Icelandic translation (Hinrik)
15:52<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: Mac: made track_starter executable by default. Needed for midi player
15:53<@planetmaker>maybe even mesolithic, not something newer ;-)
15:53<@orudge>0.3? old? pah :p
15:53<@Terkhen>most of the devs active today started later than that
15:53<@Terkhen>most :P
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15:56<@orudge>hmm, 0.3 itself was actually only released a month-ish after 0.1
15:56<@orudge>took a while to go from 0.3.6 -> 0.4.0 though
15:57<@Terkhen>heh, so short?
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15:57<@Terkhen>what about 0.2? :P
15:57<LordAro>mostly due to svn crash?
15:57<@orudge>0.2.0 was released just under a month after
15:57<Rubidium>orudge: relatively speaking... only 4 months between 0.3.6 -> 0.4.0
15:57<@orudge>LordAro: no, don't think the SVN crash really delayed anything as such
15:57<@orudge>it just lost history
15:57<@orudge>Rubidium: mm
15:57<@orudge>but compared with the rate before, it was slower
15:57<@orudge>obviously since then major releases tend to come but once a year ;)
15:58<Rubidium>well, 0.3.0 -> 0.4.0 is ~1 year
15:58<@Terkhen>back then we were faster than firefox now :P
15:58<@orudge>0.1.0 -> 0.2.0 was 27 days :)
15:58<LordAro>hmm. did no one _at all_ have a svn mirror when it crashed?
15:59<@orudge>LordAro: people had checkouts
15:59<@orudge>but no backups of the repository itself
15:59<@planetmaker>LordAro: svn doesn't lend itself to mirroring
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15:59<@orudge>if we'd been using git then, things would have been different :)
15:59<Rubidium>planetmaker: lies...
15:59<Rubidium>svnsync would work pretty well
15:59<Rubidium>and so does rsync
16:00<@Alberth>so does hgsubversion :p
16:00<@Terkhen>those things existed back then? :P
16:00<Rubidium>nope ;)
16:01<@orudge>hmm, first release of git in April 2005
16:01<@orudge>so, yeah, I guess it would have been difficult to be using that then :)
16:01<@Terkhen>in 2004 I was starting at university with C, so everything that old sounds like caveman technology to me :P
16:01<Spideh_bnc>so my dedicated server is giving me grief :)
16:01<@Alberth>nah, RCS is old :p
16:02<frosch123>SCCS :s
16:02<Spideh_bnc>everytime I restart it a line gets added to the end of the config file [server_bind_addresses] (and random text =) on the line after that
16:02<@Alberth>yeah, there was one before RCS, I was just wondering about its name :)
16:02<@Alberth>Spideh_bnc: open a window, and throw the server through it
16:03<Spideh_bnc>I would but its in a different country :P
16:03<@planetmaker>rm -rf / then?
16:03<LordAro>orudge/planetmaker: fair enough :)
16:03<Rubidium>Spideh_bnc: what command line are you using to start OpenTTD?
16:03<Spideh_bnc>openttd -D
16:04-!-JVassie [~James@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04<Rubidium>and what is the 'random' text?
16:04<Spideh_bnc>actually last time I used openttd -Df and then it added this to the config file
16:04<Spideh_bnc>f =
16:05<@planetmaker>-Df is no valid option
16:05<Rubidium>then it's basically doing what you asked it to do; start OpenTTD and bind to 'f'
16:05<Rubidium>where 'f' is a (DNS) name for the ip address you want to bind to
16:05<Rubidium>and not starting with -x causes OpenTTD to write the changed settings, such as the bind address to the configuration file upon closing
16:06<Rubidium>planetmaker: -Df is a valid option, it just might not do what you'd expect
16:06<@planetmaker>I compared it to -D -f
16:08<@planetmaker>which probably was wanted. But you're right of course :-)
16:09<Spideh_bnc>yes that much better
16:10<Spideh_bnc>so if I did openttd -D openttd.cfg it would add "openttd.cfg" to the [server_bind_addresses] aswell right?
16:12<Elukka>Eddi|zuHaus: how's it look to you now?
16:12<Spideh_bnc>great all probs solved. thanks :)
16:12<Elukka>erm. one of the signs is the wrong way, ignore that
16:12<Elukka>not just one
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16:50*sagag slaps orudge around a bit with a large fishbot
16:50*sagag slaps avdg around a bit with a large fishbot
16:50*sagag slaps Born_Acorn around a bit with a large fishbot
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16:50*andythenorth suspects a kick
16:50<@planetmaker>@kicks sagag with a large boot
16:50<@planetmaker>@kick sagag with a large boot
16:50-!-sagag was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [with a large boot]
16:51<@planetmaker>for better effect without s
16:51<MNIM>I was browsing through my uploads and I spotted those two.
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16:51<@Yexo>Zuu: does CluelessPlus have a new home already or is still the last version?
16:51<MNIM>slightly more than a hundred years of growth!
16:51*andythenorth spots some FISH
16:52<johny>very nice map, congrats
16:52<@planetmaker>you sure are in the correct channel, johny?
16:52<Zuu>Yexo: is not the last version. I'm not sure if I've created a new project at or not of it it only exist in a local hg here.
16:52<Zuu>(as well as tar-files on bananas etc.)
16:52<@Yexo>I'm in the process of looking at all projects at so we can shut it down
16:52<johny>oh, sorry - I thought I am in the toilet :(
16:53<@Yexo>is there still something there you need?
16:53<MNIM>Sadly, the trouble with old maps is that the cities get massively big and I can hardly look at them without having massive lag
16:53<Zuu>I don't think so.
16:53<MNIM>so I restarted
16:53<MNIM>then came this map
16:54<MNIM>and Im now building a new one with even more massive rail usage in mind
16:54<Zuu>The only thing would be the SVN log, but it should be available in my local .svn dir if I ever would be interested in it.
16:55<@Yexo>if you want to keep it you can clone with hgsubversion or so
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16:55<MNIM>hmmmmh. in what map did I make that massive quadruple line RORO-Terminus station?
16:57-!-sgs [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:57<MNIM>oh yeah, now I remember.
16:57<MNIM>lost all those maps in a major reinstall
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16:59<George>about FIRS russian translation (string that describe amount of cargo produced from cargo delivered). Where should be more strings provided, because of measure units. More detailed report would be provided later.
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17:04<@Yexo>anyone got a clue who "ac84" is? forum nick would be nice
17:05<@Yexo>George: akasoft pasted a russian translation of FIRS here:
17:06<George>Yexo: yes, we are currently discussing it on the russian forums
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17:07<@Yexo>ok, just wanted to make sure you were aware of that version
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17:07<@Yexo>thanks Terkhen :)
17:07<Zuu>Yexo: Did you suggest cloning from the remote svn server or the local checkout?
17:07<@Yexo>you can't clone from your local checkout
17:07<@Yexo>or at least, you won't preserve the history that way
17:08<@Yexo>a local svn checkout doesn't have the history
17:08<Zuu> give me "bad gateway"
17:08<Zuu>Is there a different URL to use?
17:08<@Yexo>TrueBrain: ^^
17:12<@Yexo>TrueBrain: I'll pm-ing/mailing two people that still have a project on the site
17:12<@Yexo>might take a while to get hold of them, but afterwards it's just me who'll have to move the last libraries over
17:12<TrueBrain>and why not move over your libs already? :P
17:12<@planetmaker>Yexo: we could move the svn repos to the devzone. In principle svn works there, too
17:12<Zuu>Hmm, my username + password don't work. Have tried to type username in all lower case as well.
17:13<Zuu>But maybe blank username is enough to read.
17:13<@Yexo>Zuu: it's not your normal openttd password
17:13<@Yexo>or at least, it might not be
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17:14<Zuu>I though it was, but if it isn't I have no idea what it is.
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17:14<@Yexo>want me to reset it?
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17:16<Elukka>Eddi|zuHaus: how does licensing for sprites work? if CETS ends up using something i draw, can i also give it to other people for other sets?
17:17<@Yexo>Elukka: if you've drawn it yourself you can always give it to whoever you want under whatever license you want
17:17<Elukka>oh, alright
17:17<Zuu>Yexo: It would be useful. I have found a file in my AppData with my password but it is encrypted some way :-)
17:17<@Yexo>CETS is only allowed to use it if you give them permission to use it with their license
17:17<Elukka>so how do i license something if i want to say anyone can use it how they like :P
17:18<@Yexo>you say exactly that :)
17:18<Elukka>i don't really care under what license someone distributes something i draw
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17:18<@Yexo>there are a few caveats though: if CETS uses your sprite under the GPL license (and you're fine with that), than somebody modifies your sprite in CETS (and that version is also GPL), you are only allowed to distribute the modified version as GPL
17:19<@Yexo>unless you get permission from the people that modified the sprites to distribute it as something else
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17:28<Ammler>"anyone can use it how they like" <-- is that some kind of BSD license?
17:31<Hinrik>is there a way to make the maximum loan higher than £500k ?
17:32<Hinrik>it's not a lot of money if you want to start in 2037 and make a maglev network :P
17:32<@planetmaker>yep. But also in 2037 there are other means of transport
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17:39<Elukka>check out those lovely guide pictures they've drawn
17:40<Tatsh>planetmaker, do you use a 32-bit timestamp?
17:40<Tatsh>2038 = end of the world!
17:40<V453000>Hinrik: just use the money cheat, money is no problem in openttd sooner or later anyway
17:41<Elukka>okay so maybe i can start calling this finished some day soon
17:45<@planetmaker>Tatsh: osx is a bsd system... so it uses that probably, too
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17:45<@planetmaker>but ... does it matter now?
17:45<Tatsh>actually i have a site that uses 32-bit timestamps
17:46<Tatsh>my boss tried to set a date to sometime past 2038 and i had to explain to him why it didn't work
17:46<Tatsh>it does handle the date issue with an error and doesn't 'crash' which is good; i hadn't even tried it
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18:48<@Terkhen>good night
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19:24<pjpe>anyone seen this?
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19:30<Swissfan91>hello everyone
19:34<Elukka>Eddi|zuHaus : if you're there, can you tell if this is anywhere close to CETS standards now? i fixed the problems i could see and all the sprites are done now
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19:46<@planetmaker>good start, Swissfan91 :-)
19:46<@planetmaker>I'd increase the light / shadow effect a bit more
19:46<@planetmaker>and the one clock is not circular
19:47<@planetmaker>the shadow difference on the green roof is imho ok. But the the walls don't show that
19:47<@planetmaker>and... are you sure you want the "no derivative"?
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19:48<Swissfan91>sorry, im here now
19:48<Swissfan91>by increase light/shadow, you mean make the dark darker and the light lighter?
19:48<@planetmaker>mostly shadow darker
19:49<Swissfan91>I see, ok.
19:49<@planetmaker>you virtually have no shadow
19:49<Swissfan91>so you're saying the green roof is better?
19:50<@planetmaker>it has some light effect as opposed to the rest
19:51<Swissfan91>I see.
19:52<Swissfan91>I did make an attempt with the rest. The grey seems to merge together.
19:58<Swissfan91>I've edited the post. Is that better for the roof?
20:00<Elukka>can you link your post again? i'm not sure i can be of much help since i'm as new to this as you but i'd like to see it :D
20:01<Elukka>might want to try to get more detail in
20:01<Elukka>which is admittedly hard with so few pixels
20:02<Swissfan91>yeah, i was struggling with detail, but I wanted the basic shape first.
20:02<Swissfan91>if you look at the church I was using for inspiration, there isnt that much detail on the spire
20:03<Elukka>planetmaker: i see you work on CETS too
20:03<Elukka>i really hope the set doesn't lose steam (hehe) since it sounds like it'd be pretty amazing
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20:03<@planetmaker>are you sure your church tower roof is equally sloped to both sides?
20:04<Swissfan91>i hope so. ):
20:04<Swissfan91>but it could well not bed
20:04<Elukka>oh there's an entire tracking table for all vehicles :O
20:04<@planetmaker>the top pixel is not centred above the wall iirc
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20:05<@planetmaker>or to me it feels like 1px(?) off
20:05<Swissfan91>ah, it appears so. I really struggled with the slope. I hoped it wouldn't be too noticeable
20:05<@planetmaker>I don't say it's easy. I know it's not
20:07<Swissfan91>I shall try and rectify that at some point
20:09<@planetmaker>btw: if you want to make a project where people can contribute and work on: then you must not use anything which forbids modifications in the license
20:09<@planetmaker>everything where modification is forbidden can be considered lost work
20:10<Swissfan91>ah, I see. So my license atm means only I can do anything with them publicly?
20:10<@planetmaker>so... you just picked something without knowing what?
20:11<@planetmaker>Can you sign a piece of paper for me? I'll fill in terms later :-)
20:11<pjpe>planemaker do you do any yapf
20:11<Swissfan91>no, I thought that license was that people had to ask my permission before using any sprites I made.
20:11<@planetmaker>that's what it means
20:11<@planetmaker>which is imho a bullshit license as it's as good as no license
20:12<@planetmaker>and as such: lost work
20:12<@planetmaker>died upon birth as no-one can build or improve on it
20:13<Swissfan91>I see what you're saying. But if I have no license, somebody could take my sprite, and just open a new set and say it is theirs?
20:14<@planetmaker>please read esp. the two case studies
20:14<@planetmaker>there are enough negative case studies, though ;-)
20:15<Swissfan91>will do
20:16<@planetmaker>and ask yourself the question: why do you want to ensure that everyone has to explicitly ask you before they may use your sprites in their own work (they'll always have to credit you with proper license)
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20:16<@planetmaker>what should happen to your work should you be hit by a car?
20:16<@planetmaker>(not that I wish that - on the contrary)
20:17<@planetmaker>pjpe: no
20:17<pjpe>who does
20:17<pjpe>news to me
20:17<Swissfan91>Ah, I think I understand.
20:17<@planetmaker>usually I have openttd do the pathfinding for me, though
20:18<Swissfan91>"but in essence it means, and only that is important for our purpose: ALL work is copyrighted."
20:18<Swissfan91>that bit, I didn't know.
20:19<pjpe>that michi kid
20:19<pjpe>that's the one
20:19<pjpe>i ask because i saw this article
20:19<pjpe>and it seems like it would help with ship pathfinding
20:19<pjpe>and maybe road vehicles
20:22<@planetmaker>pjpe: we have no developer who has exclusive domains...
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: you might want to learn how to highlight people by spelling their name properly.
20:22<@planetmaker>if you have suggestions, it's best to not seek for the "correct" one, but to just bring them forward
20:22<Elukka>...that would be useful, yes
20:23<@planetmaker>those who are interested will then see / read it
20:25<@planetmaker>I'm just not sure whether this should go into the suggestions or development forum
20:28<Swissfan91>@planetmaker - to conclude: not mentioning a license gives me adequate protection?
20:28<@planetmaker>yes. But what do you need to protect?
20:28<@planetmaker>your vanity?
20:28<@planetmaker>isn't attribution enough for that?
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20:30<Swissfan91>of course attribution is enough. Sorry, I am picking the wrong words. My fear was people stealing it without attribution. So protection against that. :)
20:31<@planetmaker>then CC-BY is enough
20:31<@planetmaker>which means "do what you like with it. But give credits"
20:32<@planetmaker>which is also the most community-friendly
20:32<pjpe>people can always steal it
20:32<pjpe>just whether they ethically should or not
20:32<pjpe>but will people really check
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20:34<@planetmaker>that is also not the point of the license. As that cannot be avoided anyway
20:34<Swissfan91>Indeed. Thanks for your help PM :)
20:34<@planetmaker>But the license allows the good guys to build on it - and give credits
20:37<Swissfan91>which is what we're all here for!
20:37<pjpe>not me
20:37<pjpe>i'm going to steal it as soon as you work on it
20:37<pjpe>and say it's mine
20:39<@planetmaker>you've seen the flame wars about those?
20:39<pjpe>which reminds me
20:39<pjpe>i wonder if that new us set guy is still working
20:39<pjpe>i want the damn justice league hq in my games
20:40<Elukka>Eddi|zuHause :D any comments on the sprite?
20:47<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: haven't looked at it too closely.
20:47<Swissfan91>@planetmaker, if I PM you a sprite, could you take a quick look at something?
20:48<Elukka>what's the procedure for getting a sprite vetted and accepted into CETS?
20:48<@planetmaker>Elukka: there's no formal nor established procedure.
20:48<@planetmaker>No sprites are coded yet.
20:48<@planetmaker>Best open a ticket for that vehicle and attach your sprites
20:49<@planetmaker>Swissfan91: dunno? What about forums?
20:49<Swissfan91>I meant a PM on the forums :)
20:50<Elukka>i suppose i would need some sort of membership to add a ticket?
20:50<@planetmaker>only thing required is registration at the devzone
20:52<@planetmaker>Swissfan91: give it a try ;-)
20:52<@planetmaker>asking to ask sucks and sucks time pointlessly
20:52<Elukka>is the vehicle list a comprehensive one?
20:53<@planetmaker>Elukka: it's most likely not 100% complete
20:54<Elukka>i'm not sure the coach i drew is on there but i thought it a reasonably safe bet that a very prominent german coach would be in the set
20:54<@planetmaker>Swissfan91: you just have to count pixels... there's no magic
20:54<Elukka>anyhow, i suppose i should make a ticket under features
20:54<@planetmaker>both conditions cannot be true concurrently with that
20:54<Elukka>next time i'll also pick a vehicle from the list
20:54<@planetmaker>finding the centre of something is... not that difficult. There's no perspective
20:55<Swissfan91>I counted the roof out ok, but when you draw a line down from the top.. it doesnt cross the centre of the base
20:55<@planetmaker>no scale change rather
20:55<@planetmaker>see. then it's off
20:56<Elukka>hey is there something particular i need to do with the png file (something about palettes) to make it okay for ottd?
20:57<@planetmaker>I'd say 4px further left
20:57<@planetmaker>balkony might fit
20:58<Swissfan91>ok, here's my problem. I find the centre of the base, and draw a line all the way up. It means the roof point needs moving left - correct?
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21:00<Swissfan91>I would send you a picture explaining, but its forums downtime.. time.
21:01<@planetmaker>rather it's bed time :-)
21:01<@planetmaker>good night
21:05<Swissfan91>I'm off too Elukka. Have a good time spriting!
21:06<Elukka>i'm gonna see sprites when i go to bed
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21:09<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: the wagons are not representative yet
21:09<Eddi|zuHause>it's just some made up ones to have a basis for development
21:10<Elukka>i'll stick to basic wagons that'll be needed anyway rather than drawing any special ones
21:11<Eddi|zuHause>if in doubt, we always can put it into the "extended" set, so nothing is wasted :)
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23:29<Hinrik>which article on the wiki talks about strategies to maximize stations' service rating an such?
23:39<Elukka>dunno, but in a nutshell the most important parts are that you always have a vehicle loading at the station and that your vehicles are as fast as possible
23:39<Elukka>the former being the most critical
23:40<Elukka>so in essence if you have a coal mine you don't want one long train you want two shorter ones
23:45<Hinrik>btw, I think I found a bug
23:45<Hinrik>if you place a station, and then place the exact same station over the previous one, you get charged for it
23:45<Hinrik>so you can spend money on nothing
23:46<Hinrik>this is in 1.1.2
23:46<Hinrik>I complied trunk but I couldn't get it to run...
23:49<Hinrik>compiled, even
23:54<Pinkbeast>You always get charged when replacing station tiles.
23:55<Pinkbeast>... arguably you should not be when it's the same tile
---Logclosed Thu Sep 08 00:00:36 2011