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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-09-11

---Logopened Sun Sep 11 00:00:54 2011
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01:09<EyeMWing>Sononfa...
01:09<pjpe>oh hey you're that guy
01:09<pjpe>doing that thing
01:09<EyeMWing>Was trying to test a patch. Was about to complain that it doesn't work when I realized I'm trying it in my vanilla version.
01:10<pjpe>are you going to put the station sprites in your us set revamped?
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01:11<EyeMWing>Not in the main set, but once I've ticked off a few goals, I don't see why not.
01:11<pjpe>aw sweet
01:12<pjpe>the guy had some really nice stations drawn up
01:12<pjpe>but they weren't in game
01:12<pjpe>and then he disappeared
01:13<EyeMWing>These? http://www.as-st.com/ttd/usa/stations.html
01:14<pjpe>those are the ones
01:14<pjpe>only toronto union seems to be in the current set
01:15<EyeMWing>I think I've seen the bare platforms somewhere, too.
01:16<Elukka>the steel mill platforms and grain depot are in game
01:17<EyeMWing>Recolored, I think.
01:18<EyeMWing>Well, at least the steel mill
01:18<EyeMWing>Oh wow.
01:18<EyeMWing>This works even less well in the patched copy than in trunk.
01:19<EyeMWing>Wait
01:19<EyeMWing>no it doesn't
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01:24<pjpe>now who wouldn't like to have the justice league hq station in their games
01:24<pjpe>who
01:24<pjpe>no one that's who
01:25<EyeMWing>Some decent stations might convince me to actually service passengers.
01:29<EyeMWing>There's a whole bunch of tiny little 1 or 2-piece station sets that in the ottdc grf pack. Licenses permitting, rolling some of those up, plus the big city stations that were never implemented would be a pretty good start.
01:31<pjpe>there are only really 3 decent station tiles for large cities
01:31<pjpe>the 2 station halls in i think the industrial station renewal
01:31<pjpe>and union station in the us set
01:31<pjpe>everything else is too small scale
01:46<Elukka>http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/pr_abteilwagen_4kl_lu7.png
01:46<Elukka>hmm.
01:47<EyeMWing>Okay, I just have to ask. What on earth are the extra angles for?
01:47<Elukka>some sort of magic that makes them turn smoother in corners
01:48<Elukka>vital for the longer wagons (like twice as long as this one, presumably also magic) so they don't look bad
01:48<Elukka>i don't code, i just draw on top of templates :P
01:49<EyeMWing>I think I know what the first bit of magic is, but... Wagons longer than 8/8?
01:49<Elukka>yep
01:49<Elukka>it was described as "hacky"
01:49<pjpe>articulated wagons?
01:49<Elukka>needs a patch
01:50<Elukka>no i believe they're simply longer wagons
01:50<pjpe>is that smooth turning magic in the codebase yet
01:50<pjpe>i looked through it but couldn't really make heads of it
01:51<EyeMWing>Got a link to the patch? The US set has some locomotives that are currently chopped up into like, 6 articulated pieces
01:52<Elukka>pjpe, seems to be in trunk
01:52<pjpe>i mean in the nml
01:52<Elukka>oh, no idea
01:53<Elukka>eyemwing i was actually trying to find it too :P
01:54<Elukka>i swear someone linked it...
01:58<Elukka>or not. dunno
01:58<Elukka>Eddi|ZuHause would know more
02:00<Elukka>yeah looking into it i haven't the faintest idea how CETS plans to manage the longer vehicles
02:00<pjpe>is there even a thread
02:01<Elukka>i don't even know
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02:21<@planetmaker>moin
02:22<Elukka>hey, people were curious about how CETS manages longer rail vehicles
02:22<Elukka>do you happen to know?
02:23<@planetmaker>yes. I suggest to look at the source for the exact 'how'
02:23<@planetmaker>it uses rail curvature info
02:23<@planetmaker>and articulation
02:24<Elukka>oh, it does use articulation
02:24<Elukka>does that make longer carriages bend in corners?
02:24<@planetmaker>no, they're one piece
02:24<Elukka>okay that's the magic part
02:24<@planetmaker>visually
02:25<@planetmaker>basically a wagon consists of three parts. Only the middle part has (visible) graphics
02:26<@planetmaker>But it cannot be recommended to use that really
02:26<@planetmaker>The game engine is not ready for this and it'll glitch
02:26<Elukka>how does that manifest in game?
02:27<EyeMWing>I had a feeling that's what was going on.
02:28<EyeMWing>I guess I'll just keep ye olde bendy locomotives for now.
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02:40<andythenorth>Bonjour
02:40<@planetmaker>salut andythenorth
02:41<EyeMWing>wtf? "Repository is unrelated"?
02:43-!-supermop [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
02:44<@planetmaker>did you clone from that repo (i.e. is it one of the defaults, like pull or push)?
02:47<EyeMWing>... Oops. This is the wrong repository altogether.
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03:26<EyeMWing>planetmaker: Any recommendations for a reasonable Python dev environment?
03:26<andythenorth>EyeMWing: text editor?
03:26<andythenorth>:P
03:27<pjpe>vim
03:27<EyeMWing>Chasing references in text editors sucks. I'm a pampered Microsoftie by day.
03:27<andythenorth>hmm
03:27<pjpe>that visual studio python plugin?
03:28<andythenorth>I have only used eclipse as a python IDE, and that sucks for various reasons
03:29<pjpe>netbeans is a good die for java
03:29<pjpe>eclipse always seemed shoddy
03:29<EyeMWing>Eclipse is spectacular in finding every possible way to be wrong.
03:30<EyeMWing>Good call on the Visual Studio plugin, I've actually used that before and forgot about it.
03:30<pjpe>or you can be an idiot and use wing
03:30<pjpe>or wings
03:30<pjpe>or whatever that python ide is
03:30<pjpe>god i hate that
03:31<andythenorth>EyeMWing: RUST looks promising :)
03:31<EyeMWing>Promising and ambitious.
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03:54*planetmaker uses XCode
03:54<@planetmaker>or nedit. or kate
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04:02<pjpe>text mate works fine
04:07<andythenorth>text wrangler :P
04:07*andythenorth is low-fi
04:08<andythenorth>the place suddenly seems to be full of OS X users
04:09<pjpe>it's a good os
04:09<pjpe>and pretty too!
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04:19<Rubidium>pjpe: unless you want to develop an application to run on more than 2 versions of that OS
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04:20<pjpe>things usually work on the current and previous version
04:20<pjpe>which i don't find that bad
04:22<Rubidium>well, OpenTTD always fails many months (if not years) after Apple makes a release
04:22<pjpe>can't speak for previous versions
04:23<pjpe>but for the latest os update is was because openttd was using two functions for fullscreen that were deprecated for years
04:23<pjpe>and only removed in lion
04:23<EyeMWing>Removing deprecated features from an OS more often than once a hardware generation is reckless.
04:24<Rubidium>pjpe: Microsoft removed directmusic in 2007 from their development kits, yet it still works
04:25<pjpe>great for them
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04:26<Rubidium>nah, great for forward compatability
04:26-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
04:26<Rubidium>but then... Apple made an ever bigger mess in the past
04:26<@Alberth>Apple clearly does not care for anybody but themselves
04:26<Rubidium>saying a particular feature was supported (via one API call), but not actually supporting it (when actually using it)
04:27<EyeMWing>Microsoft never removes anything ever because users will always say "This new operating system broke my program! Stupid buggy Microsoft." not "My program does something it was supposed to stop doing 15 years ago! Stupid buggy program."
04:28<EyeMWing>Apple, of course, is immune to ever having anyone question their perceived quality and doesn't have to worry about that problem, and can break things more or less at will.
04:28<andythenorth>and they do
04:29<EyeMWing>Plus they don't have to worry about the ramifications of some ramshackle pile of junk "enterprise software" failing and costing one of their customers a trillion dollars.
04:29<andythenorth>whether that will continue post-Steve is another question
04:29<Rubidium>now I'm certainly not saying that Microsoft or Linux or BSD is a saint with respect to backward compatability, but it's perceivably doing a much better job at it
04:29<andythenorth>it's not so much Apple as Steve :P
04:29<andythenorth>Steve doesn't care about backwards compatibility. It's not on his agenda
04:30<@Alberth>Can we please stop discussing these stupid 'coins in the train list' ? I am getting sick and tired of it
04:30<andythenorth>ok
04:30<EyeMWing>I guarantee somewhere in the financial industry exists a program that uses DirectMusic to play an alarm when the stock market crashes or something.
04:30*andythenorth has stopped
04:31<Rubidium>Alberth: okay, lets discuss coins in the road vehicle list then ;)
04:31<@Alberth>ARGH!
04:32<Rubidium>I think we should use a golden coin for lots of money, a silver one for small bits and a chocolate one for loss (looks like shit)
04:32<@planetmaker>'coins in the train'? Oh, that thread? :-)
04:32<andythenorth>why don't we discuss groups instead?
04:32<andythenorth>that always goes well
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04:33<frosch123>still better than discussion one-tile locks :p
04:33<Rubidium>no! half tile locks!
04:33<frosch123>diagonal locks?
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04:35<@Alberth>diagonal bridges!
04:36<EyeMWing>Diagonal stations! (No, really. Bendy station platforms would be awesome)
04:38<pjpe>diagonal bridges and diagonal roads is the weirdest idea
04:38<pjpe>i can't picture it doing anything but taking up lots of space and looking weird
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04:42<EyeMWing>Roads could be okay. Decidedly "strange looking" in TTD, but given the right artistic treatment they'd look alright and be far more useful in getting vehicles around efficiently.
04:42<frosch123>yeah, bendy stations! i want the platform at the top upside-down spot of a loop-the-loop
04:43<pjpe>openrollertransportcoastertycoon
04:44<frosch123>how many tons of coal can you transport on a roller-coaster-track?
04:44<EyeMWing>ECS tourists only.
04:45<@Alberth>@calc 25*80 / 1000
04:45<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 2
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04:48<Elukka>diagonal track slopes!
04:52<andythenorth>two tile locks
04:52<andythenorth>3 tile locks are stupid stupid
04:52<andythenorth>and it's stupid to be able to overbuild river, but not rapids
04:52<andythenorth>just annoying
04:54<Eddi|zuHause>you're supposed to build the lock next to the rapids ;)
04:54<EyeMWing>If you built the lock over the rapids, you'd essentially be damming the river
04:55<andythenorth>sounds a bit detailed to me
04:55<EyeMWing>When did rivers go into the map generator anyway? I just saw it for the first time today, but it had been awhile since I grabbed a nightly
04:56<andythenorth>we have huge detailed locks that are supposed to go alongside rapids
04:56<andythenorth>but 1 tile depots
04:56<andythenorth>seems like wrong thinking
04:56<Hyronymus>somewehre last week EyeMWing
04:56<Elukka>has anyone thought up a satisfactory method of removing/readding/something rivers?
04:56*Hyronymus agrees with andythenorth
04:56<Elukka>a bit silly that you can just remove a river and it's gone forever
04:56<EyeMWing>1 tile depots need to die.
04:57<Hyronymus>can't river tiles be like radio transmitters: unremoveable from the map
04:57<Elukka>mainly it bothers me because i'll accidentally remove a piece of river and it's gone
04:57<Elukka>wider, longer major rivers would be a really cool thing too
04:57<b_jonas>I'd like diagonal rail bridges
04:58<b_jonas>and diagonal rail tunnels
04:58<b_jonas>but it's dangerous to go down that route
04:59<@planetmaker>why?
04:59<b_jonas>because after that I'll want curved bridges and bridges with crossings and multiple lanes and tunnels with the same and eventually we're at the point where Locomotion is where you can build more freely in the air or underground then on the ground
05:00<andythenorth>1 tile depots are fine
05:00<@Alberth>b_jonas: and that is bad how, exactly?
05:01<b_jonas>it kind of ruins the game if you can build in 3d over and under cities and other rails
05:01<@Alberth>andythenorth: they are entrances to underground tunnels :p
05:01<b_jonas>you never have to plan anything because you always have place for your new track
05:01<b_jonas>you just put it deeper or higher everything else
05:01<b_jonas>too easy
05:01<b_jonas>really, just play with that game
05:02<b_jonas>it gets boring much more quickly than ttd
05:02<b_jonas>because of the too much freedom
05:02<@Alberth>we'll add an advanced settings flag :)
05:04<EyeMWing>Advanced Settings: The window where you choose whether you want to play Transport Tycoon Deluxe or... Whatever.
05:05<EyeMWing>1 tile depots really hub the realism center in my brain the wrong way. MLSS was the greatest thing to happen to me in ages. My railyards tend to be bigger than most cities for some reason...
05:06<b_jonas>by the way, is there a good design for transporting lots of steel on a very short route (about 25 squares currently, depending on the placement of stations)? I'm currently using six trains each on individual tracks, but it's hard to place the depots for them
05:07<Eddi|zuHause>if you want 1-tile-locks, you might just as well make the rapids traversable in the first place...
05:07<@planetmaker>b_jonas: that's an RV task
05:07<@planetmaker>not for trains
05:07<b_jonas>why?
05:07<EyeMWing>HEQS.
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05:08<b_jonas>um, I don't think I want to load a vehicles newgrf to this game. that would be kind of cheating.
05:08<b_jonas>maybe for the next game.
05:08<andythenorth>2 tile locks
05:08<andythenorth>1 tile would be stupid
05:09<@Alberth>just draw a tilted ship :)
05:09<@planetmaker>:-D
05:09<EyeMWing>Next suggestion would be to build a loop.
05:09<@planetmaker>hm, have ships also break-downs?
05:10<@Alberth>yes, they have
05:10<@planetmaker>:-) Could have nice graphics with water gushing in ;-)
05:10<b_jonas>EyeMWing: my problem with the loop is, that would make the length of the rail much longer, so the trains would have to travel much
05:10<andythenorth>b_jonas the flow would be better
05:10<@Alberth>planetmaker: would be progress compared with the current black smoke :)
05:11<b_jonas>andythenorth: it wouldn't, because currently the six trains are each on separate tracks
05:11<andythenorth>ok
05:11<andythenorth>so flow is not an issue
05:11<EyeMWing>Yeah, but you could pack the same number of trains onto half (or less) the tracks.
05:11<@Yexo>good morning :)
05:11<b_jonas>so it could be better only if I had more than six trains
05:11<@planetmaker>I'm not sure that would be changed, Alberth. but one could still vary the vehicle
05:11<@Alberth>moin Yexo
05:11<@planetmaker>moin Yexo
05:11<andythenorth>b_jonas: can you build a second level of tracks using bridges on the same ground footprint
05:11<@Yexo>b_jonas: why each train on an individual track?
05:11<@Alberth>b_jonas: such waste of tracks and space
05:12<@Yexo>given 4 tracks you should easily be able to accomodate 10 trains or something like that
05:12<andythenorth>b_jonas: build a canal
05:12<Wolf01>hello
05:12<@planetmaker>hi Wolf01
05:12<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
05:12<andythenorth>ships have ~infinite capacity per water tile
05:12<@Yexo>hello Wolf01
05:12<b_jonas>it's short, like 25 squares. making them loop would make the distance like one and a half times as long because the trains would also need to turn
05:12<Elukka>Eddi|ZuHause: you woke up! http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/pr_abteilwagen_4kl_lu7.png
05:12<b_jonas>andythenorth: heh
05:12<Elukka>i know white proof would likely be more accurate, but... i think the brown looks way better
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: i'm also gone now
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: looks ok, but the second view from the left loosk a little too short
05:13<Elukka>*roof
05:14<Elukka>yeah i might have done something wonky i was half asleep
05:14<Elukka>figured i'd look at it again tomorrow before posting it on the devzone
05:14<@Yexo>b_jonas: who said anything about looping?
05:15<b_jonas>Yexo: EyeMWing did
05:15<b_jonas>should I upload a screenshot?
05:16<@Yexo>sure, if you want to
05:16<Elukka>actually yup one of the views is missing a few pixels
05:19<b_jonas>I guess I'll also have to check out the transport from the four mines and make them all consistently transport 80%+ of the ore
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05:23<Elukka>http://www.brawa.de/en/products/h0/wagons/passenger-coaches/45458-compartment-coach-d3-kpev.html
05:23<Elukka>ooh a picture of a grey 3 axle coach
05:24<b_jonas>screenshot (650 KB): http://www.math.bme.hu/~ambrus/pu/tt-steel-1
05:28<andythenorth>b_jonas: bigger trains
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05:29<b_jonas>andythenorth: hmm, that might work
05:30<b_jonas>especially if I upgrade to monorail
05:30<b_jonas>how many carriages could they pull?
05:30<b_jonas>I only have the X1 currently
05:32<CIA-2>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22918 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h newgrf_canal.h): -Fix: [NewGRF] Properties for feature 0x05 were not zeroed for each NewGRF, thus waterfeatures could glitch when the properties were set by a previous NewGRF and the NewGRF assumed the properties to be unmodified
05:33<b_jonas>I should also improve the transport from the mines a bit
05:34<EyeMWing>Well, it just took me 20 minutes to find a horsepower rating on a DMU when it's right on the wikipedia page. That sort of thing usually means it's time for bed.
05:35<Rubidium>bed? You mean brunch... but ofcourse that should be enjoyed in bed, shouldn't it? :)
05:35<@planetmaker>:-)
05:36<@Yexo>b_jonas: I say with my previous comment: you can have at least double the amount of trains on those tracks
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05:37<b_jonas>Yexo: with what layout?
05:38<b_jonas>how could they not get stuck if they're confined in such a small place?
05:38<b_jonas>I mean, I could probably add two more tracks
05:38<b_jonas>or more
05:38<EyeMWing>Brunch at 5:30AM sounds interesting. I should try it some time.
05:38<b_jonas>there's enough space on the NW
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05:43<@Yexo>b_jonas: like this: http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/b_jonas.png
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05:53<b_jonas>Yexo: I don't think that could run twice as many trains without getting stuck
05:53<b_jonas>but it could indeed be better than what I have now
05:53<@Yexo>I'm 100% sure you can
05:54<@Yexo>4 trains for every 2 tracks is easy
05:54<@Yexo>I'd say you might be able to get 5 or 6 trains on those
05:54<@Yexo>of course it wouldn't run as fluently anymore, but it will never get stuck due to the proper signaling
05:55<b_jonas>also, wouldn't that need signals at the exit of the station tracks, before the crossing?
05:55<@Alberth>b_jonas: 4 trains at 2 tracks: 1 loading, 1 unloading, one from A -> B, one from B -> A
05:56<@Yexo>Alberth: in the example above there are 2 platforms on each side
05:56<@Yexo>so there can be 2 loading, 2 unloading, 1 A->B, 1 B->A
05:56<@Yexo>b_jonas: no, you don't need those
05:56<@Yexo>try it out, the layout I posted works
05:57<@Alberth>Yexo: way too many platforms if you ask me :)
05:57<@planetmaker>it wouldn't work on a roro station, though, Yexo
05:57<@Yexo>planetmaker: right, but this isn't one ;)
05:57<@Yexo>Alberth: agreed, but I didn't want to change his station layout too :)
05:57<@Yexo>and it allows for more trains this way
05:58<b_jonas>how does that work? if there are no exit lights, how can trains park on both platforms?
05:58<b_jonas>how do they know not to exit at the same time?
05:58<@Alberth>b_jonas: path signals reserve a whole track
05:58<@Yexo>they're in a pbs-signal block, so they'll only leave when they've reserved a route to a signal
05:58<@planetmaker>they'll figure it out. That's what path signals are for
05:59<@planetmaker>hm... though... turning. Sure, Yexo?
05:59<b_jonas>but then wouldn't have to reserve the way out when they enter?
05:59<@Yexo>quite sure
05:59<b_jonas>I'll test this
05:59<@Yexo>no, they "end of line" is also a valid end-point for a reservation
05:59<@Yexo>planetmaker: yes, I've used this in some games
06:00<@Alberth>Yexo: I find those double platforms more a pain in the ass, as the incoming and outgoing trains tend to get in each others way
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06:00<@Yexo>that's true and the reason I prefer roro stations for stations that are busier, but this works fine for not-too-busy stations
06:00<@Alberth>b_jonas: they reserve an outgoing path after finishing loading/unloading
06:00<@planetmaker>Alberth: hardly. with path signals you have not really a measurable impact
06:01<b_jonas>so they can reserve a path even if there's no lights?
06:01<@Alberth>yep
06:01<b_jonas>ah, I guess it's reversing that does that
06:01<b_jonas>they have to reserve a path when they reverse
06:01<b_jonas>even if they do that automatically
06:01<b_jonas>fun
06:02<b_jonas>in that case this layout may fit here
06:02<@Alberth>planetmaker: in my experience, the 2nd train always just claimed a path to the 2nd platform just before the 1st train finishes unloading
06:03<@Yexo>Alberth: that depends on unloading speed, train length, etc.
06:04<@planetmaker>and traffic density
06:04<@planetmaker>and the general station setup ;-)
06:05<@Alberth>it should, but perhaps there is self-regulating mechanism in there that causes it
06:05*Alberth suspects the breakdowns
06:06<b_jonas>it would be nice if somehow when both platforms are empty the incoming train took the farther platform
06:06<@Yexo>place a reversed path signal before the first platform but not for the second
06:07<@Yexo>to create an artificial malus for that platform and not for the other
06:07<b_jonas>hmm
06:07<b_jonas>I should try that next time I build large terminuses
06:07<@Yexo>other options are: slightly longer platform, make that tile a road crossing
06:07<b_jonas>how does road crossing help?
06:08<@Yexo>the rail pathfinder prefers routes without road crossings
06:08<b_jonas>wtf... my trains try to avoid competitor's road vehicles? that's stupid
06:08*b_jonas looks for yapf settings to turn it off
06:09<@Yexo>in the console type: set yapf.rail_crossing_penalty 0
06:09<b_jonas>I guess that might be it, yes
06:09<@planetmaker>I'd not advise it though
06:10<b_jonas>why?
06:10<@planetmaker>I'd strongly advise to NOT modify the pathfinder settings
06:10<b_jonas>yes, I would not like to modify it either if I can avoid it
06:10<b_jonas>but I still don't understand the penalty for road crossing
06:10<b_jonas>they don't have a speed limit for railway, does it?
06:10<@planetmaker>as you'll complain then in 10 days about strange vehicle behaviour - just because you basically use totally useless PF penalties instead of the well-tuned default ones
06:10<@Yexo>no, but the vehicles on there might as well be yours as your competitors
06:11<@Yexo>and you wouldn't want to crash your own road vehicles, would you?
06:11<@Yexo>also: crashing a road vehicle IIRC drops the station rating in nearby stations
06:11<@planetmaker>hm, what would make sense :-)
06:11<b_jonas>this game doesn't even have competitors, nor road vehicles currently
06:11<@Yexo>so no reason to change that setting at all
06:12<b_jonas>most of the road crossings are where I cross town roads I've built to nudge the town to build around my passenger station
06:12<b_jonas>and want to make the roads look nice so they're continuous
06:12<b_jonas>even though towns pick up roads that aren't continuous with their roads too
06:12<b_jonas>but that looks unnatural so I avoid it
06:13<b_jonas>there's no reason for trains to avoid those roads
06:13<b_jonas>even in a game with competitors, this makes most of the crossings
06:13<@Yexo>trains won't avoid them, just if there is a parallel track next to it without road crossings of exactly the same length and with the same amount of trains, it'll chose the one without road crossings
06:13<b_jonas>if I want to spare my vehicles, I build bridges or tunnels
06:14<b_jonas>Yexo: I guess that's true, it's not a very strong penalty
06:14<b_jonas>so I probably should just ignore it
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06:56<@Terkhen>hello
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07:14<CIA-2>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22919 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Doc: Some doxygen sprinkles
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07:47<CIA-2>OpenTTD: yexo * r22920 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Cleanup: replace two very old town variables taht were rarely used by small functions that compute there value on-the-fly when necessary
07:49<Swissfan91>are there any mods online?
07:50<@Yexo>define "mod"
07:50<@Yexo>if "NewGRF", yes, a lot
07:51<Swissfan91>a moderator of the forums :)
07:51<@Yexo>ah, yes :)
07:51<Swissfan91>could you possibly split the O/T from this topic > http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=56570
07:52<Swissfan91>although very helpful, I could do with it not in there.
07:53<@Yexo>sorry, I'm only moderator for the OpenTTD section
07:53<@Yexo>just create a topic report asking for it to be split of
07:53<Swissfan91>ah yes, OK.
07:53<@Yexo>that's generally the fastest way to get moderator attention
08:02<Hyronymus>Swissfan91: your signature is rather much too big definitvely
08:03<Hyronymus>and you want all the pain.net/gimp convo to be split?
08:03<JVassie>Swissfan91: its not that much offtopic
08:03<@planetmaker>yeah
08:12<Swissfan91>Hmmm, I'm not sure. I mean it is really helpful, which led me to think it could be a topic about palettes in drawing programs.
08:15<Swissfan91>shall we keep it in then?
08:24<@Alberth>Swissfan91: better make an entry at a wiki then; forum threads are not so easy to retrieve
08:25<Swissfan91>how do you mean?
08:25<@planetmaker>forum threads age very fast and in 4 weeks no-one will remember
08:26<@planetmaker>nor find it
08:26<@planetmaker>if you find something helpful, then wiki conserves knowledge much better
08:28<Swissfan91>Oh I see. Well, I was thinking that FooBars comment about the way to load TTD palette as swatches in Photoshop was the new bit of information. So possibly if he adds that to the wiki?
08:49*andythenorth finds use for HEQS forklift
08:50<@planetmaker>'he'?!
08:50<@planetmaker>'you' was the statement
08:52<CIA-2>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22921 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ (cocoa_v.mm fullscreen.mm): -Fix: [OSX] Don't allow the old fullscreen mode also not as fallback on OSX 10.7. Also add a few sprinkles of coding style accross cocoa display drivers
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09:04<Swissfan91>I don't really understand it, as I don't use photoshop. So me adding it would be silly right?
09:05<Hyronymus>so Swissfan91 , what to do with your report
09:05<valhallasw>you could just add it, with a link to the forum thread
09:05<Swissfan91>you can leave it, Hyro :) thanks.
09:05<valhallasw>in that way, you do add useful information, but you don't have to be afraid of taking the blame!
09:05<valhallasw>(not that anyone would actually blame you, but whatever)
09:05<Hyronymus>ok
09:07<Hyronymus>but please fix you signature size, Swissfan91
09:08<Swissfan91>ah, I thought it was ok. Hold on.
09:09<Swissfan91>the image is too big? Or too much text?
09:09<Hyronymus>too high in total :)
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09:09<@Yexo>you can chose either the image or the text, together it's too much
09:09<@Yexo>"Signatures may contain up to five lines (one line being that displayed on a browser opened to 800px width) of text (of small or normal size) and/or one image, valid combinations include; a single image of no more than 60px high, 468px wide and 10KB in size. Two images are allowable side-by-side if they abide by this height rule, and their total width does not exceed 468px. The total file size must be no larger than 15KB. Signatures containing an i
09:09<@Yexo>mage this large may also include one line of small size text. Signatures containing an image of 30px high may include up to three lines of small size text or two lines of normal size text. Images of 15px height or less may allow up to three lines of normal size text or four lines of small size text. Please note that minor variations on this will usually be acceptable - in general, think of the common sense rule that your signature should not be lon
09:09<@Yexo>ger than your post."
09:09<@Yexo>sorry, that was more than I thought :p
09:10<Hyronymus>lol
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09:15<Swissfan91>I'm sorting it now.
09:17<andythenorth>hmm
09:17<andythenorth>pipelines would be nice
09:18<Swissfan91>I have taken two lines out. Will that suffice?
09:18<@Yexo>not according to the rules I quoted above, but ask Hyronymus if it's enough for him
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09:19<Hyronymus>stop bothering me :P
09:20<Hyronymus>out of curiousity: why the text *Other users screenshots are available
09:23<Swissfan91>Because I just put screenshots, not MY screenshots. Kind of like a disclaimer.
09:24<Hyronymus>rofl
09:24<Hyronymus>I'm fine wih it
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09:28<Swissfan91>it was a joke :P
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10:28*planetmaker ponders whom to elect as major...
10:28<@planetmaker>All write the same bullshit
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10:33<frosch123>then pick the opposition
10:34<@planetmaker>for sure :-)
10:34-!-Swissfan91 [Swissfan91@5e0ad068.bb.sky.com] has quit []
10:34<@planetmaker>The current major was once member of the NPD before he joined CDU
10:35<frosch123>if everything is bad, the best solution is to deelect everyone
10:35<frosch123>as it is unlikely that they try again
10:35<frosch123>so others can appear
10:35<@planetmaker>:-)
10:36<@planetmaker>I'll take a die with me :-)
10:36<@planetmaker>bbiab
10:47<@planetmaker>right. I could have voted for my grandma as they only wanted the election notification.
10:48<@planetmaker>Thus I could in principle vote in every vote location...
10:52<Rubidium>planetmaker: Owen for major? ;)
10:52<@planetmaker>:-)
10:52<@planetmaker>+1
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11:08<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22922 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Use wrapper methods to access and register spritesets.
11:09-!-Hyr|afk is now known as Hyronymus
11:09<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22923 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Move application of the construction stage into TileLayoutSpriteGroup::ProcessRegisters().
11:09<@planetmaker>yuhu :-)
11:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22924 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Codechange: Enhance NewGRFSpriteLayout for drawing construction stages in spritelayouts with inconsistent number of sprites per spriteset.
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11:10<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22925 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] Allow referencing spritesets from different Action1 in a single Action2.
11:11<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22926 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] Extended Action1 format to define arbitrary spriteset IDs.
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11:12<Hirundo>:o
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12:08<Greyfur>Hello
12:08<@planetmaker>hi
12:09<Greyfur>I would like to ask, is there any way, how to make two companies service on one track ?
12:09<@planetmaker>on default openttd there is not
12:09<Greyfur>I mean in TTD Patch it was possible to buy 75% of the other company and it worked
12:09<@planetmaker>I'm sure it doesn't
12:09<@planetmaker>you could maybe buy the company completely. But then it was one company
12:10<@planetmaker>you can do that here, too, if another company bancrupts
12:11<Greyfur>Well I am sure, I have played a game, where I buyed only 75% of the other company and could use their rails
12:11<@planetmaker>well. In any case, this is not TTDPatch
12:11<@planetmaker>and in multiplyer it sucks majorly, if someone just bought my company
12:12<@planetmaker>and could do with my stuff what s/he wanted
12:12<Greyfur>In that case it must have been Open TTD
12:12<@Yexo>no, it probably was ttdpatch
12:12<@Yexo>in openttd there has been an infrastructure sharing patch that allowed you to share rails with other companies
12:13<@planetmaker>but it's 24 months outdated now
12:17<Greyfur>Actually I don't have the newest up to date openttd installed, so I guess I will try. Thanks!
12:18<@planetmaker>it won't allow you that either
12:18<@Yexo>Greyfur: there is no nor has there ever been an official version of OpenTTD that supported it
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12:24<Greyfur>:(
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12:38<Greyfur>my connection broke
12:41<@planetmaker>that looks different than a quit :-P
12:43<@planetmaker>andythenorth: do you have a mac which understands the zoom guesture?
12:44<andythenorth>planetmaker: propably
12:44<andythenorth>I turn all that crap off
12:45<Greyfur>planet : thanks for reminding me, why I left the community a few years back.
12:45<@planetmaker>you're welcome
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12:51<@planetmaker>andythenorth: but you run SnowLeopard now, do you?
12:52<@planetmaker>http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/WindowsViews/Conceptual/UIScrollView_pg/ZoomZoom/ZoomZoom.html <-- I mean this guesture, andythenorth
12:55<@planetmaker>or anyone whose mac supports that?
12:57<@orudge>planetmaker: "Scroll View Programming Guide for iOS"
12:57<@planetmaker>orudge: hm?
12:57<@orudge>they're gestures on the iPhone/iPad, etc
12:57<@orudge>not the Mac
12:57<@orudge>iOS != Mac OS :)
12:57<@planetmaker>I know that
12:57<@orudge>well
12:57<@planetmaker>but it's available also for mac
12:57<@orudge>I'm not aware of pinch zooming being in the Mac
12:57<@planetmaker>it was just the first page in google to explain that
12:58<@orudge>hmm
12:58<@planetmaker>well, someone posted a patch for that
12:58<@orudge>well
12:58<@planetmaker>But my hardware doesn't support it
12:58<@orudge>what hardware do you have?
12:58<@planetmaker>but iirc the new macbooks support many guestures
12:58<@planetmaker>mine is a 3.x year old macbook
12:58<@orudge>hmm, mine is a late 2009 MacBook Pro
12:58<@orudge>I'm not sure if it'd support that
12:58<@orudge>it might do
12:58<@orudge>I've never used it if so
12:59<@planetmaker>I'd doubt that it supports that already; but maybe
12:59<@orudge>hmm, well, it's a multi-touch touchpad, you can do things like three-finger and four-finger swipes
12:59<@orudge>let me see
13:00<@planetmaker>then maybe :-)
13:00<@orudge>hmm
13:00<@planetmaker>hm, orudge, you might need one additional patch...
13:00<@orudge>I can do a sort of pinch to zoom in Safari
13:01<@orudge>ah, yes, the Trackpad control panel does show things like that
13:01<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/070_default_no_minimum_sdk.diff <-- that one
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13:01<@planetmaker>otherwise you won't get the 10.6 features which it is
13:01<@planetmaker>you need snow leopard or newer
13:01<@orudge>mm
13:01*orudge has Snow Leopard and Lion
13:02<@planetmaker>ok :-)
13:02<@planetmaker>then my patch and FS 4760 together should give the result
13:02<@orudge>let's see
13:04<@planetmaker>do you have compile stuff installed?
13:04<supermop>hey guys
13:05<@orudge>I haven't built OpenTTD in a few months, seems I don't have liblzma installed
13:05<@planetmaker>otherwise with a bit of patience the binary will be compiled here, too. In the hope that it would work elsewhere
13:05<supermop>is there a reason i cannot set service interval greater than 800 days
13:05<supermop>?
13:05<@planetmaker>but it's not that fast as I watch TV concurrently
13:06<frosch123>planetmaker: if you provide a binary, you should fix the typo in the patch :)
13:06<@orudge>but MacPorts can sort that out
13:06<@planetmaker>orudge: for testing you could do without liblzma
13:06<@orudge>yeah
13:06<@planetmaker>yes, I should
13:06<@orudge>but I may as well install it now anyway :)
13:07<@planetmaker>hm, which, frosch123?
13:07<@planetmaker>(there's a new version as of today)
13:07<frosch123>+ HandleKeypress(WKC_EQUALS<<16);
13:07<frosch123>see fs
13:08<frosch123>though this does not necessarily prevent testing
13:08<@planetmaker>ah. Yes, I'd consider it a mouse event
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13:08<supermop>also, intuitively, shouldn't ctrl+click on order with the 'go to' tool selected copy that order, rather than center screen on that station?
13:08<frosch123>planetmaker: from the spec you posted, it only seems to a be an event for the ottd window
13:08<frosch123>with no specific location
13:10<frosch123>which would mean, zooming an image would always zoom around the center of the window, and not around the finger position
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13:10<@orudge>ooh, nice, lots of deprecated warnings when compiling now on the Mac
13:10<@orudge>but, it builds
13:11<supermop>later all,
13:11<@planetmaker>orudge: yes, my patch shows them, too. As it makes sure to not build against old sdks (which hides them)
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13:11<@orudge>ah, ok
13:11<@planetmaker>I guess I should just commit that patch ;-)
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13:11<@planetmaker>no need to make compatible binaries when not building universal
13:12<@planetmaker>*backward compatible
13:13<@orudge>well, pinch to zoom seems to work
13:13<@planetmaker>hm, how exactly?
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13:13<@orudge>er, well, use two fingers far apart, and move them close together
13:13<@orudge>or vice versa to zoom out
13:14<@orudge>check the Trackpad section of the System Preferences, too
13:14<@orudge>do you see "pinch open & close" there?
13:14<@orudge>if you don't, I guess your hardware doesn't support it
13:14<@orudge>I can disable it there and it won't work in OpenTTD
13:15<@planetmaker>mine doesn't - or I could use it in other programmes, I guess :-)
13:15<@planetmaker>and no, the trackpad preferences doesn't have anything like that.
13:15<@planetmaker>that's why I know I don't have it
13:15<@orudge>fair enough
13:15<@orudge>well, it seems to work for me, anyway :)
13:15<frosch123>orudge: do you have some image software which support that zooming?
13:16<@orudge>er, I'm not sure
13:16<@orudge>it works in Safari
13:16<@orudge>let me try in Preview
13:16<@orudge>yes, it works there too
13:19<frosch123>orudge: does it matter where you do it?
13:19<frosch123>i.e. does it zoom around the center of your fingers?
13:19<frosch123>or does it always zoom relative to the center of the window?
13:19<@orudge>hm, I'm not sure
13:20<@orudge>it zooms relative to where the cursor is
13:20<@orudge>where your fingers specifically are doesn't matter
13:21<@planetmaker>ok, so it should zoom-in in secondary views when the cursor hovers them
13:21*orudge tests
13:21<@orudge>no, that doesn't happen
13:21<@orudge>it only zooms the main OpenTTD viewpoint
13:22<@orudge>using two fingers up/down does zoom secondary viewpoints
13:22<@orudge>but pinching doesn't
13:23<@planetmaker>hm. normal zooming also works on main viewport, does it?
13:24<@planetmaker>hm... I wonder though whether we need two zoom-functions...
13:24<@orudge>planetmaker: yes
13:24<@orudge>brb
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13:27<frosch123>two-finger up/down is like mousewheel?
13:28<@planetmaker>yes
13:28<@planetmaker>and zooms in or out
13:28<@planetmaker>on all viewports
13:28<@planetmaker>and scrolls where it should
13:29<@planetmaker>I never use a mouse on this machine ;-)
13:30<frosch123>well, you can disable the scrollwheel zooming in adv. settings
13:31<frosch123>so, if it is the wrong gesture, it can be disabled :)
13:31<frosch123>there is actually a setting to make the scrollwheel scroll the viewport
13:31<frosch123>s/scroll/pan/ ?
13:31<frosch123>including x/y direction for second wheel
13:32<@planetmaker>hm
13:32<frosch123>i guess that works as well with those two finger gestures
13:32<@planetmaker>I need a new mac :S
13:35<frosch123>be careful, that means more work
13:35<frosch123>if you decide for a linux box, it would mean less work :p
13:35<@planetmaker>:-P
13:35<@planetmaker>well... I could install linux on it, too ;-)
13:35<@planetmaker>the hardware is good quality
13:36<@planetmaker>I actually still have a 50GB partition free... for either windoze or linux ;-)
13:37<frosch123>dual-boot? who does that today :)
13:37<@planetmaker>indeed
13:37<@planetmaker>but also a VM could occupy that
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22927 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: slovak - 126 changes by klingacik
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14:58<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> but it's 24 months outdated now <-- chill's patchpack contains an updated infrastructure sharing patch
14:59<@planetmaker>can be, yes
15:03<__ln__>any hope for infrastructure sharing in trunk?
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>i used it a few months ago :)
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: not really
15:03<@planetmaker>not currently. No one works on it
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: too many conceptual problems, imho
15:03<@planetmaker>They can be solved
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>just take the payment issue
15:04<__ln__>but it is there already. the oil platforms.
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>using transfers (or any kind of destinations patch) only the last mile gets paid
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>all other companies involved get nothing
15:05<@planetmaker>__ln__: exactly
15:05<__ln__>how about limited infrastructure sharing -- airports usable for everyone?
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: yes, it's a trunk bug. but nobody bothered fixing it
15:06<@planetmaker>__ln__: that has the same issues
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15:06<__ln__>well ok i see there's a problem with shared airports, too.
15:07<@planetmaker>I could block it in principle. Or the other one could. Thus it needs a method which removes all own stuff from a competitor's property
15:07<@planetmaker>so that I cannot be left with a debt spiral I cannot break
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>what i missed in infrastructure sharing: merge my tram station with the other player's train station (via ctrl+click)
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>or add my own platforms
15:08<@planetmaker>unrealistic to have stations owned by two ;-)
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>(so not actual sharing of tracks, only transfer points for cargo)
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>it's not really unrealistic
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>take Leipzig main station, it was a station owned by two companies, the saxon state railway and the prussian state railway
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15:09<Eddi|zuHause>hence all facilities existed twice
15:09-!-Bas_Honing [~BasHoning@8-79-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>in the eastern half the trains from erfurt, halle/magdeburg and berlin arrived, and in the western half the trains from dresden arrived
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>err, other way around
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>this is basically still true, as there are very few track connections from one half to the other
15:11<@planetmaker>:-) makes sense
15:11<TrueBrain>NOTICE: All OpenTTD webservice will be down for a minute or 5 (how ever long it will take OVH to accept a new mac address). I am sorry if your addiction is hurt in any way.
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15:14<Eddi|zuHause>or take Hettstedt main station, it has through-tracks by the prussian main line between Sangerhausen and Aschersleben (afair that was part of the "Kanonenbahn"), and dead-end tracks for the private "Halle-Hettstedter-Eisenbahn"
15:15-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
15:16<__ln__>TrueBrain: thanks for letting us know, so i can now desperately click refresh
15:16<__ln__>over and over again
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>the "Kanonenbahn" was a pre-WWI rail track reaching from Berlin all the way to the western border, avoiding major traffic hubs, intended for military use.
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15:18<Eddi|zuHause>civilian travel on many sections was very low, so it was left to decay after WWII in those areas
15:18<__ln__>is it still there?
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>the section Sangerhausen-Hettstedt-Aschersleben is still in use
15:19<TrueBrain>OpenTTD Web Services should all be back online. Please let me know if there are any issues
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15:19<Eddi|zuHause>but for example the section Treysa-Leinefelde is decayed. the DDR-BRD border was in that section
15:20<Eddi|zuHause>last time i checked, they discussed reopening a short strip Treysa-Homburg (Efze)
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15:32<Ammler>Rubidium: I fear your last tar detection thing is broken
15:33<Ammler>I have same grf, different md5sum once in file dir and once in tar
15:33<Ammler>openttd is not able to load both
15:34<Ammler>r22815
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15:43<Eddi|zuHause>do you mean "both" as in "at the same time", or as in "either one"?
15:46<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: dutchstations once in a tar and once unpacked
15:46<Ammler>different versions (md5sums)
15:46<Ammler>if I rename the unpacked grf, I am able to load the newer grf
15:47<Ammler>I also have setting allow_older_newgrfs set
15:47<@planetmaker>Ammler: maybe you can prepare a testcase with those two newgrfs. And a savegame which tries to access the 'hidden' one
15:47<@planetmaker>if that's the issue
15:47<Ammler>newgrf_show_old_versions = true
15:47<Ammler>I guess, this has no effect on newgrfs without versions
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15:56<Ammler>planetmaker: are you sure, it adds the tar to the path?
15:56<@planetmaker>I thought so
15:56<Ammler>as there are paths in the tar
15:56<@planetmaker>but only since r22905
15:56<Ammler>so it would be .../newgrf.tar/newgrf/newgrf.grf
15:56<@planetmaker>thus we should urgently update tomorrow ;-)
15:56<Ammler>why not now?
15:57<@planetmaker>18 people is too much to kill the fun
15:57<Ammler>:-D
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15:57<Ammler>so Rubidium fixed the issue whith the commit I thought he broke it
15:57<@planetmaker>eh?
15:58<@planetmaker>well, that fix was actually a crash-fix
15:58<Ammler>[21:32] <Ammler> Rubidium: I fear your last tar detection thing is broken
16:00<Ammler>well, if we restart now, we see how many are really active :-)
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16:00<Eddi|zuHause>interesting theory :)
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16:12<__ln__>"Nach einem Erdrutsch bei heftigen Regenfällen ist bei St. Goar ein Intercity mit etwa 800 Menschen an Bord am Sonntag entgleist."
16:12<@planetmaker>jo
16:13<@planetmaker>good night
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16:33<__ln__>will greece collapse tomorrow?
16:33<Elukka>is there a reason greece would collapse tomorrow in particular?
16:35<__ln__>it's monday.
16:37<Rubidium>if it would, then announcing it ~6.5 hours ago would've had more impact
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16:44<Eddi|zuHause>"an american 'large' egg is equivalent to a european 'medium' egg"
16:44<frosch123>is today the day of quotes?
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>i quote on any other day as well...
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16:54<@Terkhen>good night
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18:16<Elukka>hm.
18:16<Elukka>any way to run opengfx+ landscape with cs railroad tracks?
18:16<Elukka>no matter the load orders the landscape grf overrides the cs tracks with the default ones
18:16<Elukka>though oddly enough it displays the cs track sprites in the build menus
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>i'm afraid that requires a CS-tracks grf that is updated to use railtype-overlays
18:22<@Yexo>loading opengfx+landscape before cs railroad tracks works fine here
18:22<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: might depend on parameters
18:22<@Yexo>ogfx+landscape 0.2.2 and CS railroad tracks 1.4
18:22<@Yexo>for me: all default
18:23<@Yexo>Elukka: which openttd version are you using? are you using any other newgrfs?
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18:24<__ln__>Slashdot says "Has Cleverbot Passed the Turing Test?"
18:24<Elukka>Yexo: foobar's r22855 build patched with YACD
18:25<Elukka>using a whole bunch of other grfs, gonna try with just the two
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18:32<Elukka>huh. works now somehow
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19:16<Elukka>grfs that have windows and dos versions... which one do you use under opengfx?
19:17<@Yexo>pick either
19:18<@Yexo>if the colors are wrong, click "toggle palette" in the newgrf window after selecting the offending grf
19:19<Elukka>oh you can do that
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19:27<Eddi|zuHause>rule of thumb: use DOS grf if it has action 14, use windows grf if it doesn't
19:28<EyeMWing>Where in the source if the engine status window? (the one with the viewport and the orders button etc.)
19:30<EyeMWing>Oh. engine_gui.cpp
19:30<EyeMWing>derp.
19:31<EyeMWing>wait, no. that's the exclusive preview window.
19:42<@Yexo>did you try vehicle_gui.cpp?
19:42<@Yexo>the window with the actual orders is in order_gui.cpp
19:43<EyeMWing>vehicle_gui Looks to be the vehicle list. Unless they're both in there.
19:44<@Yexo>struct VehicleViewWindow is the one you're looking for
19:44<@Yexo>there are several windows defined in vehicle_gui.cpp
19:44<EyeMWing>Yeah. Just spotted it.
19:45<EyeMWing>Thanks
20:06<EyeMWing>This should crash in interesting ways.
20:10<pjpe>i've never noticed how cool the planes move in this game before
20:12<Swissfan91>ohhhhh, Swissfan91 has updated his sprites. What?
20:12<pjpe>who
20:13<Swissfan91>when?
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20:15<jerry>can't reach bananas
20:15<jerry>ingame
20:17<EyeMWing>Down for me as well.
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20:51<Elukka>what the...
20:51<Elukka>why does YACD force destinations for FIRS industries even if it's off for cargo?
20:53<pjpe>perhaps it is a bug
20:53<pjpe>what does it mean when my banana has a large black streak on the outside of the inside-the-skin part
20:54<pjpe>apparently it means they're ripe
20:54<pjpe>hope i don't die
20:54<Elukka>i guess it's about time i try a game with cargo destinations for industries
21:00<Elukka>yes the banana will viciously murder you
21:00<pjpe>tell my wife
21:00<pjpe>hello
21:01<Elukka>did you know bananas are so radioactive they occasionally trip radiation alarms in ports
21:02<pjpe>yes
21:02<pjpe>i dod
21:02<pjpe>i very much so knew that
21:02<pjpe>don't you feel special now
21:03<Elukka>very special
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21:27<Elukka>hmm... unforeseen downside to cargo destinations
21:27<Elukka>it's extremely hard to get good ratings
21:32<Elukka>how odd. CHIPS station pieces aren't working
21:32<Elukka>trains just can't drive through them
21:33<Elukka>hm. rebuilt the station and they can
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22:12<EyeMWing>Wow. I've been hacking on this for like 2 hours and only just now got it to crash. I thought I was a much worse C++ developer than this.
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---Logclosed Mon Sep 12 00:00:57 2011