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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-09-26

---Logopened Mon Sep 26 00:00:26 2011
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01:52<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:19<planetmaker>moin
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02:24<@Terkhen>hi planetmaker
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02:52<norbert79>Morning
02:53<Markk>Hoi norbert79
02:53<norbert79>Morning Markk
02:54<Markk>How are you? :)
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02:56<norbert79>Thank you for asking, got a cold, tired, but ok. You?
02:57<Markk>Ah, thay sucks, I had a cold/flu for 2-3 weeks ago and just started to get better.
02:58<Markk>It's the coldseason. :)
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02:59<Markk>It only takes a couple of days to fetch a cold, but you're tired and sheitbfor weeks afterwards.
03:00<Markk>I'm quite fine, especially for being a monday and all.
03:03<appe>"sheitbfor"
03:03<appe>sounds like german zombie sickness
03:03<Markk>sheit for*
03:03<Markk>;)
03:03<Markk>Sheißfor
03:03<Markk>:D
03:05<appe>exactly!
03:05<appe>it starts with a flu
03:16*norbert79 is listening to Skeewiff - Farsky And Cratch @ [192kbps]
03:20*norbert79 is listening to Skeewiff - Cop Show @ [192kbps]
03:23<norbert79>Aw, crhist... I need to turn this off
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03:29<appe>we all celebrate the joy of knowing what bitrate your mp3s have.
03:29<appe>\o/
03:29<appe>youre/djüür/jåour
03:29<appe>bah
03:29<norbert79>appe: It came with the default script, since it worked well, I didn't feel really changing it
03:30<appe>:)
03:30<norbert79>But got it disabled by now, so you are again forced into the Unknown :)
03:30<appe>oh noez
03:30<appe>it's like people who (six times an hour) paste the specs of the computer.
03:31<appe>I FELT SO INTAREZTED LOL
03:31<norbert79>Actually automatic announce was turned off, yet it showed up... Guess why I got angry
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05:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm... interesting idea, problematic idea: 1) remove time-dependency for station rating, 2) reduce rating each time cargo is added to station (production, transfer), 3) increase rating each time cargo is taken away, 4) reduce rating if cargo couldn't be loaded because the train is full
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>(certainly needs some tweaking to handle both low-throughput and high-throughput stations sensibly)
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05:31<appe>the CERN/Gran Sasso OPERA experiment papers just got peer-reviewed.
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05:32<appe>except being the fastest peer-review in history, it seems like we have to re-define what the speed of light is, in relative to small masses of matter like this, or types of matter like this.
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06:09<llugo>Eddi|zuHause: would the last six factors on http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_Mechanics#Station_rating still be relevant in your idea?
06:09<Eddi|zuHause>llugo: i don't see why not
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06:11<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: what's wrong with my music?
06:17<llugo>conditions of point 2 in that table could also be altered :), like 0, 2, 5 or so but that might be a matter of taste
06:20<Eddi|zuHause>llugo: yes, but imho that doesn't go far enough
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08:37<z-MaTRiX>hey
08:37<z-MaTRiX>what do you think about ghc ? http://haskell.org/
08:38<z-MaTRiX>about 1GB installed, and a hello world is 1MB compiled in binary
08:38<norbert79>z-MaTRiX: I think the size speaks for itself...
08:39<z-MaTRiX>but its a fully functional and recursive language
08:39<z-MaTRiX>;/
08:39<norbert79>And it would need 1 MB for just a damn Hello World from the memory...
08:39<z-MaTRiX>yep
08:40<norbert79>Imagine the same fro the whole code being rewritten...
08:40<z-MaTRiX>and 1.4MB for a raytracer program
08:40<z-MaTRiX>source is 16kb
08:40<z-MaTRiX>~8kb is comment
08:40<norbert79>I think the size still speaks for itself... Bloated
08:41<z-MaTRiX>heheh
08:41<norbert79>And I still don1t see any additional features, yet just more work
08:41<z-MaTRiX>yes pretty high level
08:41<z-MaTRiX>well it features functional programming
08:42<norbert79>Good luck converting 100%
08:42<z-MaTRiX>type Vector3 = (Float, Float, Float)
08:42<z-MaTRiX>add :: Vector3 -> Vector3 -> Vector3
08:42<z-MaTRiX>add (x,y,z) (a,b,c) = (a+x, b+y, c+z)
08:42<z-MaTRiX>heres how it declares the vector add function
08:42<norbert79>ever considered the problems where differences comes with different CPU types, or 64 bit?
08:43<norbert79>Since it's very high level, you are depending on the whole framework... Risky
08:43<norbert79>It's like moving the code into Java
08:43<norbert79>Yeeeey
08:43<z-MaTRiX>yes if you want to distribute a binary either it should be general, or everybody install the 1GB bloat
08:43<dihedral>thanks!
08:43<z-MaTRiX>for compiling
08:43<z-MaTRiX><;
08:44<norbert79>z-MaTRiX: Doubt, that anyone here would be interested
08:44*dihedral reads the backlog
08:44<z-MaTRiX>no
08:44*z-MaTRiX hates java
08:44<z-MaTRiX>didnt even think about that
08:44<z-MaTRiX>nor tcl
08:44<dihedral>haskel is interesting - what do you want to do with it?
08:44<z-MaTRiX>this compiles binary executable
08:44<norbert79>Haskell seems no different to me in this matter...
08:45<dihedral>nearly all languages have their use ;-)
08:45<dihedral>tcl can be pretty sweet
08:45<dihedral>so can java
08:45<norbert79>dihedral: Yes, A screwdriver is always useful, except for cooking :)
08:45<planetmaker>the least use could be "bad example" or "fun past time activity to develop *** like whitespace" ;-)
08:45<planetmaker>or brainfuck ;-)
08:45<z-MaTRiX>tcl is better in efficiency
08:46<dihedral>moocows
08:46<z-MaTRiX>ah and flash
08:46<z-MaTRiX>tahts the worse
08:46<z-MaTRiX>eats 100% cpu all the time
08:46<dihedral>depends on the exact scenario - tcl does not have to be more efficient
08:46<norbert79>I would disagree there for a moment: http://www.orisinal.com ... Can't get that smaller in other languages.
08:46<z-MaTRiX>amsn is in tcl
08:46<z-MaTRiX>;/
08:46<z-MaTRiX>azureus is in java
08:46<norbert79>Behalf of Flash
08:47<z-MaTRiX>now azureus eats very much CPU
08:47<dihedral>...
08:47<norbert79>Rather pretty nice examples, aren't they? :))
08:47<z-MaTRiX>and every flash animation ad in a website
08:47<z-MaTRiX>yep į have compared apples to bananas
08:49<z-MaTRiX>i was thinking about a use for ghc, a program that is fairly complex and needs many calculations
08:50<z-MaTRiX>cad software
08:50<norbert79>http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Applications - Doesn't seem to be very attractive to many developers, doesn't seem, that many prefer it...
08:50<z-MaTRiX>yes
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>that's because "ordinary programmers" don't understand it :p
08:50<z-MaTRiX>also the domcumentation examples fail often
08:51<norbert79>Besides, many of these links end either in 404 or 403
08:51<z-MaTRiX>so its a hard start
08:51<norbert79>Eddi|zuHause: Oh, right, sorry
08:51<z-MaTRiX>ahah
08:51<z-MaTRiX>yes and the 404-s
08:51<z-MaTRiX>those are awesome if you are a beginner and want examples
08:51<norbert79>z-MaTRiX: Wait, so, I have almost no documentations, I might end up with a non-working code, or bogus code, and my binaeries would be the 10-20x of their current size... How wonderful!
08:51<z-MaTRiX>they have been developing it for 20 years+
08:52<z-MaTRiX>norbert79<< but look at the bright side, it can compile itself (:
08:52<z-MaTRiX>you can learn the source
08:52<norbert79>I am really hoping you have been just sarcastic, when mentioning Haskell
08:53<z-MaTRiX>hmm not 100% because
08:53<z-MaTRiX>have seen a 3d game in opengl with haskell
08:53<z-MaTRiX>;/
08:53<z-MaTRiX>and the screenshot showed 60fps
08:54<z-MaTRiX>in a quake 3 engine
08:54<z-MaTRiX>http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Applications_and_libraries/Games
08:54<z-MaTRiX>but im sure its not attractive to programmers for many reasons
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08:55<@peter1138>my current wm is xmonad
08:55<@peter1138>haskell :S
08:56<@peter1138>to customise it, you write and compile some haskell :P
08:58<z-MaTRiX>hehe interesting, what about performance?
08:59<z-MaTRiX>is 16GB enough for / ?
08:59<@peter1138>plenty
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>if you exclude /var
09:00<TinoDidriksen>I never saw the need for separate partitions...upgrades preserves /home trivially anyway.
09:02<norbert79>TinoDidriksen: Well, in server enviroment, it's a must, and for own use, seperating /home is always preferred
09:03<TinoDidriksen>I admin several servers, and no I really don't see the need.
09:03<z-MaTRiX>peter1138<< not sure i want a tiling window manager ;/ i always have more windows than the screen size
09:03<@peter1138>that's why they're spread onto different desktops
09:04<z-MaTRiX>TinoDidriksen<< its a clever thing to avoid fragmentation and filling the root with logs for example
09:04<z-MaTRiX>peter1138<< what linux distro uses that haskell windowsystem?
09:05<@peter1138>i doubt any distro "uses" it
09:05<@peter1138>i guess by "use" you mean installs as a set of defaults...
09:05<z-MaTRiX>:)
09:05<z-MaTRiX>so your linux is from scratch or gentoo?
09:05<@peter1138>no, it's debian
09:06<z-MaTRiX>btw i have a basic RHEL 6 system and my root partition seems rather small (8GB)
09:06<norbert79>peter1138: Just out of curiosity: do you use LUKS (Linux Kernel based eCryptFS support)? (Just asking, since you said you have no fragmented system-drives)
09:06<z-MaTRiX>+2GB var +4GB swap
09:06<z-MaTRiX>+2GB home
09:07<@peter1138>did i say that?
09:07<norbert79>Oh, sorry, wrong persom
09:07<norbert79>person
09:07<norbert79>TinoDidriksen: Just out of curiosity: do you use LUKS (Linux Kernel based eCryptFS support)? (Just asking, since you said you have no fragmented system-drives)
09:07<norbert79>Sorry peter1138 :)
09:07<@peter1138>i only use LUKS on a USB flash thing :)
09:07<norbert79>peter1138: For USB I prefer Truecrypt, for easier use
09:08<norbert79>also for beginners
09:08<@peter1138>yeah, i might switch back to that
09:08<TinoDidriksen>Nope, no encryption.
09:08<@peter1138>truecrypt kinda sucks though
09:08<norbert79>peter1138: Never had any issues... Why?
09:08<@peter1138>but windows access is cool
09:08<z-MaTRiX>and luks stores keys at the beginning of your harddisk
09:08<z-MaTRiX>in case it damages, no way you decrypt your data
09:08<norbert79>z-MaTRiX: Sometimes that's a good thing :)
09:09<TinoDidriksen>That's what backups are for...
09:09<@peter1138>z-MaTRiX, even for my usb flash thing?
09:09<z-MaTRiX>aes256-cbc-essiv without lucks seems better
09:10<z-MaTRiX>peter1138<< yes the flash things used to go badsector land
09:10<z-MaTRiX>depends on what you store on it
09:10<@peter1138>so the keys for the LUKS partition of my usb flash stick are on my hdd?
09:11<@peter1138>so how does it work on other computers?
09:11<z-MaTRiX>no unless you make a backup
09:11<z-MaTRiX>but the keys are encrypted with your password...
09:11<@peter1138>14:08 < z-MaTRiX> and luks stores keys at the beginning of your harddisk
09:11<@peter1138>so that's not true
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>he meant the beginning of the partition in question, i'm quite convinced.
09:12<@peter1138>maybe you meant encrypted volume rather than harddisk?
09:12<z-MaTRiX>well įd think you encrypt your whole drive
09:12<TinoDidriksen>At the beginning of the device it is protecting, then.
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: how do you always manage to mistype your "i"s so badly?
09:12<z-MaTRiX>its an autoreplace <;
09:13<@peter1138>it's combining the i and the '
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>how silly
09:15<z-MaTRiX>įţ waş oņly şomę şţylę
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09:15<z-MaTRiX>dd hi
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: so what do you plan to do about this?
09:19<z-MaTRiX>about what?
09:20<z-MaTRiX>i think i can't make the 1GB ghc install below 100MB
09:25<z-MaTRiX>http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=RPPalfJM0do
09:25<z-MaTRiX>you see you like linux
09:28<@Belugas>hello
09:29<norbert79>Hey Belugas
09:29<@Belugas>hi norbert79
09:29<norbert79>Belugas: How's your morning?
09:30<Markk>Hellu again, may I ask a language question again? :D
09:30<Markk>This time it's german.
09:30<Markk>"Glückwünsche" or "Herzlichen Glückwunsch!"?
09:30<Markk>I srsly don't trust Google Translate.
09:30<norbert79>Markk: Sounds ok to me, depends on which ocassion you would like to use it
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09:31<@Belugas>norbert79: fine, so far :) I still have my cold, i'm all bruised and tired because of the work i did on the basement and around the house, but since i've got no big rush/bug/catastroph onmy plate, i'm ok :)
09:31<Markk>A german friend of mine has finally quit her job (it's a good thing in this case) and I would like to say "Congratulations!".
09:31<Markk>Seems a bit to long, even for being german like.
09:32<norbert79>Markk: "Glückwunsch" seems to be enough for me, but I guess some real German members would have better ideas :)
09:32<Markk>norbert79: I thought that you're German. :o
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>hm... what's the easiest way to get temperate river-shores in arctic?
09:33<norbert79>Markk: No, just using as an additional language, despite being related to many German things. :)
09:33<Markk>norbert79: ah :)
09:33<norbert79>If having lived for 3 years in old DDR counts there, well, I could be called a bit German then :)
09:33<Markk>:)
09:34<Markk>I'm still trying to choose which language I should choose between Dutch and German.
09:34<MNIM>if you ask me, neither >.>
09:34<Markk>It seems like Dutch is a bit closer to Swedish than German, but I know more German than Dutch.
09:34<planetmaker>Frisian
09:34<norbert79>Preussian
09:34<norbert79>:))
09:34<Markk>planetmaker: That's even more f*cked up. D:
09:34<Markk>:D*
09:34<Eddi|zuHause>norbert79: that is not really a language
09:35<Markk>I could learn like Swiss german.
09:35<norbert79>Eddi|zuHause: Sorta :)
09:35<MNIM>both are hard as duck to learn properly even
09:35<Markk>And noone will understand me.
09:35<planetmaker>norbert79: not even sorta ;-)
09:35<norbert79>planetmaker: Alright, Austrian then
09:35<norbert79>:P
09:35<Eddi|zuHause>norbert79: and _real_ 14th-century-ish prussian is actually not even german
09:36<Markk>I can pronounce Utrecht correctly.
09:36<Markk>And Groningen.
09:36<planetmaker>well. 14th century language is nowhere near the current one. Probably not even for latin
09:36<norbert79>Talking about this: http://www.scribd.com/doc/62944937/Sievers-Tatian-lateinisch-und-altdeutsch-mit-ausfuhrlichen-Glossar-1872
09:36<norbert79>Just found. :)
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, but old prussian is actually a baltic language (related to latvian and lithuanian)
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09:40<norbert79>Still, it can be called almost as a seperate one, just like with Hungarian and Szekely, where Szekely's also speak Hungarian, but their dialect almost made it an own one.
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09:49<norbert79>But let's switch to something more evil: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110909/09222615881/new-way-to-build-snowman-patented.shtml
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>hm... where and how does the calculation for model life happen? according to my data, the DBSetXL 0.82 has the following data for the BR 05:
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>0x00 "Date of introduction" 0x1566 (6209) (= 01.01.1937)
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>0x04 "model life in years" 0x15 (21) (= 01.01.1958)
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>0x26 "Retire vehicle early" 0x04 (4) (= 01.01.1954)
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>but in my test runs, the BR 05 is never available after 01.01.1952, anyone can explain this discrepancy?
10:13<@Belugas>somebody found a technical glitch taht forced thm to retire the engine 4 years earlier!
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>a "test run" consists of setting a year by cheat, and typing "resetengines" in the console over and over again
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>(actually, once, and then [up][enter] over and over)
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10:29<CakeMasher>So i've been trying to connect the the admin port (3977), authenticate and send a rcon command through an external script i've made..
10:29<CakeMasher>The documentary says a TCP connection should me made, followed by sending the ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN package
10:29<CakeMasher>what i did.
10:30<CakeMasher>The server should reply with the ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_PROTOCOL followed by ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_WELCOME
10:30<CakeMasher>however, when i send the JOIN package, and start listening to the connection for incomming data, it times out after 30 seconds for not recieving any thing.
10:30<planetmaker>well, what I know is that the sample implementation of joan I works...
10:30<planetmaker>you should probably try to get that along with the sample bot and try to sort it out
10:31<planetmaker>joan being the java implementatin of stuff. Where's dihedral?
10:31<CakeMasher>donno?
10:32<planetmaker>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan and the bot https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grapes
10:32<planetmaker>the rethoric question was not inteded to be answered but to be a highlight for him ;-)
10:33<planetmaker>he might show up in the evening hours
10:33<planetmaker>he wrote the stuff
10:34<CakeMasher>joan?
10:34<CakeMasher>he wrote joan?
10:34<planetmaker>see the link(s)
10:34<planetmaker>and what I just said ;-)
10:34<CakeMasher>yeh
10:34<CakeMasher>looking at it
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10:41<CakeMasher>hmm
10:41<CakeMasher>isnt joan the server side of the administration connections?
10:41-!-TWerkhoven [~Turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
10:41<dihedral>i'll be right with you
10:41<^Spike^>joan if i remember correctly is a java library that allows you to communicate using the admin port
10:41<CakeMasher>hmm
10:42<CakeMasher>The Java OpenTTD Admin Library (joan) is a library which takes over the communication part with an OpenTTD (dedicated) server.
10:42<planetmaker>yes
10:42<CakeMasher>source: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan/wiki
10:42<CakeMasher>so isnt that the server side?
10:42-!-Br33z4hSlut5 [~static.kp@92.68.154.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:42<planetmaker>... the server-side is OpenTTD
10:42*dihedral reads the backlog
10:42<planetmaker>joan is what you try to implement, CakeMasher
10:42<CakeMasher>yeh, but it looks like an extention for the server side's admin port communication
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>err... this looks weird: src/engine.cpp:569:uint retire_early_max_age = max(0, e->duration_phase_1 + e->duration_phase_2 - retire_early * 12);
10:43<planetmaker>or rather grapes + joan together are what you try to write
10:43<dihedral>joan is the lib that basically does all that for you
10:43<dihedral>grapes is a project which makes use of joan
10:43<CakeMasher>hmm
10:43<CakeMasher>what i want to accomplish is to connect to the openttd admin port, auth, and send rcon commands..
10:43<z-MaTRiX>wow freenode has ipv6 now
10:43<CakeMasher>and recieve the results from the commands
10:44<dihedral>you can feel free to copy and paste from joan
10:44<CakeMasher>yeh, i dont know where to start
10:44<dihedral>let me find some references for you
10:44<dihedral>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan/repository/entry/src/main/java/org/openttd/network/NetworkClient.java
10:45<planetmaker>CakeMasher: as you write php... you could certainly also use a java lib...
10:45<dihedral>this file defines how data is communicated
10:45<dihedral>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan/repository/entry/src/main/java/org/openttd/network/NetworkClient.java#L508 <- the AdminJoin Packet
10:46<CakeMasher>yeah
10:46<CakeMasher>i've got that
10:46<CakeMasher>i think
10:46<dihedral>3 strings are sent, password, bot name and version
10:46<CakeMasher>chr ($length) . chr (0) . chr (0) . $adminpass . chr (0) . $botname . chr (0) . $botver . chr (0)
10:46<CakeMasher>that is what i've been sending
10:48<dihedral>first 2 bytes are length of the packet
10:48<CakeMasher>yeah
10:48<CakeMasher>$length contains the number of the data being send
10:48<CakeMasher>$length = strlen ($adminpass) + strlen ($botname) + strlen ($botver) + 5;
10:49<dihedral>have a look at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttdlib/repository/entry/includes/OpenTTDLibPacket.php
10:49<dihedral>that is from openttdlib which can already communicate with openttd (on the udp port) however, the packet class is the same more or less
10:50<+glx><z-MaTRiX> wow freenode has ipv6 now <-- but only 1 of the 3 servers in rotation works for me
10:50<z-MaTRiX>heheh ok
10:50<+glx>though I use SSL too
10:50-!-hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-26-100.as13285.net] has joined #openttd
10:50<CakeMasher>hmm
10:50<CakeMasher>intresseting..
10:50<z-MaTRiX>yep i see
10:50<z-MaTRiX>i have just switched to ssl too
10:51<z-MaTRiX>and host is gone on v6
10:51<z-MaTRiX>reverse lookup failed
10:52<z-MaTRiX>reconnected 6x and its ok now
10:52<+glx>only 2001:6b0:... works for me
10:53<norbert79>I wonder if my ISP will allow using IPV6, how I would be able still connecting to IPv4 servers for older games...
10:53<norbert79>I am afraid not given additional IPv4
10:54<CakeMasher>hmm
10:54<CakeMasher>codecubes isnt available any more =[
10:55<z-MaTRiX>calvino.freenode.net[2001:1418:13:1::25/6697] this worked for me now
10:56<z-MaTRiX>i wonder how is v4 v6 determined, if v6 avail then prefer that?
10:58<CakeMasher>dihedral: codebudes.org isnt available any more.. =[
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11:07<dihedral>codecubes is not of interest
11:07<CakeMasher>hmm
11:07<CakeMasher>i've been looking through it
11:07<CakeMasher>downloaded the compleet lib..
11:07<CakeMasher>complete*
11:07<dihedral>what do you want from codecubes?
11:07<CakeMasher>but dint get much more wiser..
11:07<dihedral>there is nothing that would not be found at dev.openttdcoop.org ;-)
11:08<CakeMasher>all things refere me to codecubes for examples and such
11:08<dihedral>http://pub.dihedral.de/OpenTTDLib
11:08<CakeMasher>yeah
11:08<CakeMasher>i've downloaded OpenTTDLib-0.3.2.zip
11:09<dihedral>http://pub.dihedral.de/OpenTTDLib/latest/example2.php
11:09<CakeMasher>yeah
11:09<CakeMasher>seen that o
11:09<CakeMasher>to*
11:10<dihedral>that's my secret way of advertising openttdcoop :-P
11:10<CakeMasher>haha xD
11:10<CakeMasher>but this is an query system eh
11:10<CakeMasher>to get some server information
11:10<dihedral>basically you can use the Packet class to create the packets you want to send to the tcp port too
11:10<CakeMasher>yeah, but i've got the right package.. i think
11:11<dihedral>that could be the problem ^^
11:11<CakeMasher>the server dosnt give any error
11:11<CakeMasher>about illegal packages or somthing
11:11<CakeMasher>when i use 'name' as adminname, and 'v1' as version
11:11<CakeMasher>the console says the following:
11:12<dihedral>password must be set on the server too, the admin_password
11:12<CakeMasher>dgb: [net] [admin] Client connected from 127.0.0.1 on frame 57107
11:12<dihedral>i think it was admin_password
11:12<dihedral>\o/#
11:12<dihedral>very good
11:12<CakeMasher>dgb: [net] [admin] 'name' (v1) has connected
11:12<dihedral>ah there you go then
11:12<dihedral>you whould have received a protocol packet too if i am not mistaken
11:12<CakeMasher>yeh, the documentary however says the server should respond to that
11:13<CakeMasher>yeah
11:13<CakeMasher>but i'm not recieving any thing
11:14<dihedral>how is your socket setup
11:14<CakeMasher>standart
11:14<dihedral>..
11:14<dihedral>paste some code to a pastebin ;-)
11:14<CakeMasher>ok, 1 sec
11:17<CakeMasher>http://pastebin.com/an2CvmLp
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11:19<dihedral>include the Packet class and use that
11:19<dihedral>it will write length etc. for you
11:19<CakeMasher>okay =)
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11:20<CakeMasher>OpenTTDLibPacket.php?
11:21<dihedral>all you do is $packet->Send_string("name");
11:21<dihedral>for example
11:22<dihedral>$packet->PrepareToSend();
11:22<dihedral>$r = @fwrite( $this->_fp, $packet->getData(), OpenTTDLibPacket::SEND_MTU );
11:22<dihedral>for example
11:22<dihedral>this is all found in OpenTTDLib
11:22<dihedral>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttdlib/repository/entry/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L1084
11:23<CakeMasher>ill try
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11:26<dihedral>you may also like this method: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/openttdlib/repository/entry/includes/OpenTTDLib.php#L969
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>please someone tell me why the calculations don't match the observed behaviour: http://www.tt-ms.de/forum/showthread.php?tid=5551&pid=77088#pid77088
11:27<CakeMasher>yeah, ill do that as second :P
11:27<CakeMasher>first the send part
11:31<CakeMasher>hmm
11:32<CakeMasher>i dont understend it completely
11:32<dihedral>i am still here for a bit
11:32<dihedral>show me a paste and your issue :-P
11:32<CakeMasher>how do i create the join packet? :S
11:32<CakeMasher>$packet->Send_string ($adminpass);
11:32<CakeMasher>$packet->Send_String ($adminname);
11:32<CakeMasher>$packet->Send_string ($adminver);
11:33<CakeMasher>$packet->PrewpareToSend();
11:33<CakeMasher>like that?
11:33<CakeMasher>PrepareToSend*
11:35<dihedral>$packet = OpenTTDLibPacket::NetworkSend_Init(PACKET_TYPE);
11:36<dihedral>PACKET_TYPE is a constant defined in OpenTTDLibPacket
11:36<dihedral>they do not exist for the admin network yet
11:36<dihedral>you can just copy the definition from openttd
11:36<dihedral>or from joan
11:36<dihedral>and define the constants as integer values
11:37<CakeMasher>hmm, could you maby make an exmaple for how to send the ADMIN_PACKET_JOIN command??
11:38<dihedral>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan/repository/entry/src/main/java/org/openttd/enums/PacketType.java
11:38<dihedral>in OpenTTDLibPacket you create a const ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN = 0;
11:38<dihedral>then $packet = OpenTTDLibPacket::NetworkSend_Init(OpenTTDLibPacket::ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN);
11:39<dihedral>$packet->Send_string(......
11:39<dihedral>then the 'prepare to send' thing, and then write the data to the socket
11:43-!-Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd
11:43<CakeMasher>so ill just add in the openttdlibpacket the follwing:
11:43<CakeMasher>const ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN = 0;
11:47<planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: can statistics explain the behaviour?
11:47<planetmaker>The high end of the life span is increasingly less likely to see
11:52<planetmaker>CakeMasher: you expand on the existion openttdlib?
11:52<planetmaker>*existing
11:53<CakeMasher>i'm trying to figure out how this works :P
11:53<dihedral>yes
11:53<dihedral>as it does not know ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN
11:53<CakeMasher>yeh
11:53<CakeMasher>i've got the first 2 lines.. now xD
11:53<CakeMasher>$packet = new OpenTTDLibPacket;
11:53<dihedral>and you do that with all other packets and values found in http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/joan/repository/entry/src/main/java/org/openttd/enums/PacketType.java
11:53<CakeMasher>$packet->NetworkSend_Init (OpenTTDLibPacket::ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN);
11:54<CakeMasher>yeah, nice list :D
11:54<CakeMasher>good to know ^^
11:54<CakeMasher>but what do i put in the $packet->send_string command?
11:57<dihedral>you use 3 times $packet->Send_string() because you send 3 strings ;-)
11:57<CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminpass);
11:57<CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminname);
11:57<CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminver);
11:57<CakeMasher>?
11:57<dihedral>zye
11:57<dihedral>aye
11:57<CakeMasher>ok
11:57<CakeMasher>so now i have:
11:57<CakeMasher> $packet = new OpenTTDLibPacket;
11:57<CakeMasher> $packet->NetworkSend_Init(OpenTTDLibPacket::ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN);
11:57<CakeMasher>
11:57<CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminpass);
11:57<CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminname);
11:57<CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminver);
11:57<CakeMasher>
11:57<CakeMasher> $packet->PrepareToSend ();
11:57<CakeMasher> fwrite ($sock, $packet->getData());
11:57<CakeMasher>is that correct??
11:58<CakeMasher>i wont get any errors from the PHP side, but the openttd server wont allow me to login
11:58<CakeMasher>dbg: [net] [admin] '' () has disconnected.
11:58<planetmaker>has the server set the correct admin password?
11:59<CakeMasher>dbg: [net] [tcp/admin] received illegal packet from '' ()
11:59<planetmaker>which you use in authentication?
11:59<CakeMasher>see the code above..
11:59<CakeMasher>thats what i send
11:59<CakeMasher>but the package isnt good
11:59<__ln__>i thought this is #openttd, but apparently it's a pastebin
12:00<dihedral>$packet = OpenTTDLibPacket::NetworkSend_Init(OpenTTDLibPacket::ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN);
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12:01<CakeMasher>Strict Standards: Non-static method OpenTTDLibPacket::NetworkSend_Init() should not be called statically in
12:02<dihedral>well i used to in 5.2 :-P
12:02<dihedral>then define it as static ^^
12:03<CakeMasher>still the same error from opentd
12:03<CakeMasher>ah wait
12:03<CakeMasher>hmmz..
12:03<CakeMasher>the admin '' () made an error and has been disconnected. reason: 'fout spelwachtwoord' (fout spelwachtwoord = wrong admin pass)
12:04<CakeMasher>but the adminpass is correct..
12:04<CakeMasher>ill recheck it
12:04<planetmaker>CakeMasher: you didn't edit the cfg _after_ you started OpenTTD?
12:04<CakeMasher>nope
12:05<planetmaker>and rcon gives you the same admin_password?
12:05<planetmaker>rcon set admin_password
12:05<dihedral>admin_password must be set before openttd starts
12:05<dihedral>as else the network port is not opened
12:05<planetmaker>can't I set it via rcon?
12:05<dihedral>and if it's not opened he would not get the message he gets
12:05<CakeMasher>the admin password is set..
12:05<planetmaker>oh :-)
12:06<CakeMasher>$packet->getData();
12:06<CakeMasher>containts: admin0name0v10
12:06<dihedral>that is a \0
12:06<planetmaker>hm?
12:06<dihedral>quite important else openttd reads on ;-)
12:07<CakeMasher>ill change the version..
12:07<CakeMasher>admin0name0phpversion0
12:07<dihedral>the version is not interesting
12:07<dihedral>they are only strings
12:07<CakeMasher>hmm
12:07<dihedral>the password is important
12:07<CakeMasher>yeah, the password is correct..
12:07<CakeMasher>i'm 100% sure of that
12:08<dihedral>and openttd is reading the correct config?
12:08<CakeMasher>yeah
12:08<planetmaker>well. via rcon one can query the pw :-)
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12:08<CakeMasher>when i use my old code, it does works..
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12:09<CakeMasher>$length = strlen ($adminpass) + strlen ($adminname) + strlen ($adminver) + 5;
12:09<_1009>Ohi
12:09<CakeMasher>$data = chr ($length) . chr (0) . chr (0) . $adminpass . chr (0) . $adminname . chr (0) . $adminver . chr (0);
12:09<CakeMasher>that one
12:09<_1009>That looks like some crazy code :þ
12:09<CakeMasher>hehe xD
12:11<_1009>I got three things I can still work on with OpenTTD: Drag&drop terraforming in Scenario Editor; Giving Money to companies instead of players; Adding a "Start game with this Scenario"-button in the Editor. Should I work on of those or do something else?
12:12<dihedral>add a fine type of cost that simply lets money vanish from a company ^^
12:12<CakeMasher>xD
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12:13<_1009>I'd like it if something I'd do would be included in OpenTTD and not die on Flyspray (okay, I'm not sure what exactly will happen with my written patch "Stop AI Cheat" :P
12:13<_1009>So that's why I thought I'd better get dev feedback first
12:14<@Yexo>activety has been pretty low lately, but that patch will get picked up soner or later
12:14<@Yexo>"Start game with this scenario" might not be easy to create, but the other two seem good ideas
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12:15<CakeMasher>dihedral: when i compare the package made by me and made by ur class, there is a differends..:
12:15<CakeMasher>your package: admin0name0phpversion0
12:15<CakeMasher>my package: adminnamephpversion
12:16<planetmaker>0 or \0
12:16<CakeMasher>chr (0)
12:16<CakeMasher>hmm
12:16<planetmaker>without separator things are missing
12:16<_1009>Yexo is there any preference as to which to develop, or will both be wanted?
12:16<CakeMasher>in your package, they are 0's i think
12:17<@Yexo>giving money to companies instead of players is the easiest one I think
12:17<planetmaker>I'd like a "play this scenario" and "load scenario via ctrl/cmd+l in the SE"
12:17<planetmaker>what yexo just mentioned is much more important, though
12:17<@Yexo>drag&drop terraforming in the scenario editor is harder, since some people want to keep the current behavior where you can terraform an x by x block at once without drag&drop
12:18<@Yexo>I'd like such a button too, but I'm not too sure how it'd work
12:18<CakeMasher>dihedral: when i add: $data = str_replace ("0", chr (0), $packet->getData ());
12:18<CakeMasher>it does works..
12:18<CakeMasher>but, i dont know if that should be a good thing to do
12:18<@Yexo>save scenario to memory, load from there as normal game?
12:18<@Yexo>or save to a temporary file even perhaps
12:19<_1009>Hm alright, I'm probably going to do the "start game with this scenario" button first, cheers :)
12:19<@Yexo>and there won't be an easy way to go back to the scenario, which might lead to lost changes for users expecting to do a quick test and get back to editing easily
12:20<planetmaker>hm... why would one need to start a game to "test" a scenario?
12:20<_1009>I'm probably going to save it as a temporary file (or do a save dialogue first)
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12:20<planetmaker>what might be similarily useful is the option to just switch to SE from ingame
12:20<_1009>I don't know, it was suggested, I could imagine someone would want to play on a scenario they just made right away
12:21<_1009>imo that sounds a lot harder, lol :P
12:26<_1009>Alright before I start it's pizza time, catch you guys in an hour or so
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22963 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: basque - 60 changes by HerrBasque, Thadah
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: belarusian - 42 changes by Wowanxm
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: latvian - 48 changes by Parastais
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: thai - 19 changes by originalBlueSin
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13:52<@Terkhen>hi frosch123
13:52<frosch123>evening terkhen :)
13:53<Wolf01>hello
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15:31<dandan1>hi
15:32<supermop>hi
15:32<dandan1>i'm having trouble installing NML under Mac OS. Anybody here who could help me with this?
15:33*Rubidium proposes planetmaker ;)
15:34<dandan1>good idea, he is already used to me bothering him ;-)
15:37<supermop>speaking of which, can nml do stations yet?
15:37<supermop>or bridges?
15:39<@Terkhen>no, don't know
15:39<dandan1>bridges are generally a pain to code. I don't know if there are perhaps plans for a new implementation on the nfo side
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15:40<@Terkhen>I have not heard of that
15:41<Rubidium>moimoi
15:43<z-MaTRiX>http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=RPPalfJM0do
15:44<z-MaTRiX>i know you all like linux <;
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15:49<frosch123>there are too many cats in that video
15:51<Elukka>it's possible to have too many cats?
15:52<@Terkhen>of course it is
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16:00<@Belugas>it is indeed
16:00<@Belugas>we have one, at home. a big one. main Coon. My wife is allergic. so 2 will be too much cats :)
16:01<Pinkbeast>She must be pretty tolerant if one is not too many
16:04<@Terkhen>yes :P
16:04<Elukka>ah, certainly
16:04<Elukka>i'm also allergic so even one in my house would be too many
16:04<Elukka>a video however can contain all the cats around :p
16:05<Elukka>http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/IMG_2851.jpg
16:05<Elukka>he's nice and won't cause any allergic reactions
16:06<V453000>nice cat
16:12<@Belugas>she is in total love with our cat indeed. and manages to make sure there's just enough of furr hanging in mid air.
16:12<@Belugas>including vacuum twice a day...
16:14<V453000>:D yeah
16:14<@Belugas>not mine, but VERY close : http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mainecoonbrowntabby.jpg
16:16<V453000>:))
16:16<V453000>cutey furball
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16:18<@Terkhen>:P
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16:20<Belugas>grrrrrr
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16:31<z-MaTRiX>another downside of a cat is you get brain disease from it or parasites
16:31<z-MaTRiX>same for the dog if you let it "kiss" you
16:31<Belugas>only if you let your cat out
16:31<@Terkhen>I must be completely crazy by now
16:32<Belugas>if your cat is a precious thing, which NEVER leaves a pawn outside the 4 walls of your house, you're safe
16:32<z-MaTRiX>hehe
16:32<z-MaTRiX>isit possible?
16:32<Belugas>quite
16:33<Belugas>come at my place and you'll see by yourself ;)
16:33<V453000>my cat leaves outside very often and it is healthy as can be
16:33<z-MaTRiX>it will be a few thousand kms
16:34<Belugas>never said that it will AUTOMATICALLY catch something ;)
16:34<Belugas>just that staying home, there's very little it can catch
16:35<Belugas>apart... flies, mice, belly...
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16:36<V453000>certainly :)
16:37<z-MaTRiX>i believe if you sterilize it it will be safe, just cook in a pressure cooker >=117C fro 30 minutes
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16:38<z-MaTRiX>not sure it kills prions too, that may need up to 2 hours
16:38<frosch123>can you speed that up by using a mircowave?
16:40<Belugas>:)
16:41<frosch123>night
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16:41<z-MaTRiX>maybe, but only if you can evenly distribute in the 3d space otherwise there may be cold spots where bacteria will survive
16:42<z-MaTRiX>btw a microwave oven can create new molecules at random hotspots where the microwaves interfere
16:43<z-MaTRiX>random new molecules are surely good for health
16:48<@Terkhen>yes, it could spawn a new virus :)
16:52<z-MaTRiX>:)
16:52<z-MaTRiX>resident evil is on the way
16:52<z-MaTRiX>mutating existing viruses in the microwave oven
16:55<@Terkhen>good night
16:59<George>Is it possible to check, is there is desert tles on the map during cargo definition? I mean want to replace water cargo with something else in case there are no desert tiles on the map. Is it possible somehow?
17:01<@Yexo>no (other than by checking the climate)
17:02<Elukka>do desertless tropical maps even happen?
17:03<Elukka>mine are about half desert even if there's water everywhere
17:03<@Yexo>manual created scenarios?
17:03<planetmaker>you can design such maps
17:03<Elukka>true
17:03<@Yexo>though for such cases a grf parameter would suffice imo
17:04<@Yexo>George: the big problem with such detection is that it'd have to be static over the course of a game
17:04<@Yexo>if it was to be added than openttd couldn't allow any new desert tiles be created, because that means your grf would behave differently if the game was saved/loaded (=instance desync in multiplayer)
17:05<George>Yexo: Isn't it work like that already?
17:05<@Yexo>or (a more likely scenario), the other way around: the removal of the last desert tiles
17:05<George>There is no way for desert tile to appear?
17:05<@Yexo>George: no, because your grf can't check for "any desert tiles"
17:05<@Yexo>ok, the example was not that good, the other way around (removing all desert) still holds though
17:06<@Yexo>it was more of an explanation why such a variable won't be implemented
17:06<George>So, there is in fact no way for desert tile to appear
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17:07<George>If I place water over desert tile, and then remove it, it would be a desert tile?
17:08<@Yexo>don't know about that
17:08<@Yexo>but I'm quite sure you can remove the "is a desert tile" status somehow
17:08<@Yexo>if not by building water, perhaps by building an object
17:08<George>So, every tile has a desert bit, that can't change during gameplay?
17:09<George>if i remove the object, it would be desert tile?
17:09<@Yexo>I think it currently can be changed somehow, not sure about that though
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17:10<@Yexo>but it can be changed in the scenario editor without problems, and in that case your grf is already loaded, so it can already cause problems there
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17:10<George>you mean I can save a game, open it in editor, add desert and continue playing>
17:10<George>?
17:12<@Yexo>yes, you could do that
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17:52<planetmaker>@seen someone
17:52<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: someone was last seen in #openttd 49 weeks, 2 days, 4 hours, 12 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed
17:52<planetmaker>^^ dandan1
17:52<planetmaker>dunno :-)
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17:54<dandan1>oh that was the famous someone
17:55<z-MaTRiX>who's bored? grep -i "<a[^<>]*href=" "./index.html" | sed -r 's;.*href=["'"'"']*([^"'"'"']*).*;\1;Ig;
17:55<supermop>do trees grow randomly or only near other trees?
17:55<planetmaker>both
17:56<planetmaker>or rather randomly with bias
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>actually it's pretty much both
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>a tree tile can decide to plant a tree on a neighboring tile
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>or the map can decide to plant a random tree anywhere every
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>256 ticks (i believe)
17:57<supermop>ah
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>or every tick in tropic
17:57<supermop>can trees die if overcrowded?
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>trees can die. but has nothing to do with overcrowdedness
17:58<supermop>and, is a pine tree more likely to build another pine near it?
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>if you disable tree growth, trees slowly die out
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>there's some fractal tree algorithm, but yes, it tries to keep the same type of tree
17:59<supermop>so could one add a tree that looks like tall prairie grass, and have a prairie grow organically?
18:00<Elukka>putting my sprites and DBset sprites side by side, the style is staggeringly different
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: that is no problem, as they are (ultimately) not meant to be played alongside
18:00<Elukka>yeah, just an observatio
18:00<Elukka>n
18:03<Elukka>CETS vehicles look smaller too
18:03<Elukka>going by the templates
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18:04<supermop>ok off to a mogwai show, might be able to release a grf when i get back,
18:04<supermop>ater
18:04<supermop>*later
18:12<Elukka>hmm. CETS colors look more realistic, but DBset is easier to see
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18:15<Elukka>http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Art%20and%20stuff/dbsetcets_mockup.png
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18:17<Eddi|zuHause>your wagons look a pixel too low
18:18<Eddi|zuHause>and fine tuning of colours, brightness, alignment etc. can be done after i get these things into the grf
18:18<Elukka>i was wondering about that
18:19<Elukka>i'm just going by the templates
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18:20<Elukka>oberhümer's locomotive is a pixel lower than the dbset locomotive too
18:20<Elukka>2 in places
18:22<Elukka>so i think my sprites are consistent with his in scale
18:24<Elukka>i think it wouldn't necessarily hurt to notch everything up a bit in brightness
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18:41<supermop>apparently the concert has been canceled
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18:59<Wolf01>'night
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19:08<+michi_cc>Elukka: Not sure if it is just an illusion due to the fence, but the CETS roofs seems more "flat" than the DB one.
19:09<Elukka>that's because the roofs of the actual coaches are fairly flat
19:09<+michi_cc>Elukka: And it might be more of an issue with contrasts and not brightness. (Which the OpenGFX tracks are a good anti-example of. Your comparison probably looks better on original terrain).
19:11<Elukka>the roofs are a case of http://www.brawa.de/uploads/tx_userinhaltsseite/48246-Gedeckter-Gueterwagen-Cassel-DRG.png vs http://www.brawa.de/typo3temp/pics/48683-gedeckter-gueterwagen-glr-dresden-drg_36e3e03805.jpg
19:17<+michi_cc>Railroad models quite often don't show what they are supposed to show BTW (stuff like roof type, brake cabins, doors and so on for older archetypes often don't match what the description promises). And never use the length of H0 passengers waggon models to get real-life sizes, most models of UIC and similar wagons are shortened.
19:20<supermop>hey planetmaker
19:20<supermop>are you around?
19:20<Elukka>i know they're often shortened
19:21<Elukka>brawa's prussian coaches which is what i've been drawing match up with actual drawings
19:21<Elukka>(except that they seem to be longer than what most sources state, for some reason)
19:23<Elukka>mostly models are the only source to be found for old stuff though
19:23<Elukka>well. i suppose speaking german would help a bit
19:24<+michi_cc>Yeah, it's the modern, longer passenger wagons that are shortened most often. The shorter wagons are more often correct.
19:25<Elukka>roco and probably brawa make real length coaches
19:26<Elukka>i prefer shortened ones on my model railway for practical reasons, though :P
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19:26<+michi_cc>Guess why the companies do/did it :)
19:27<Eddi|zuHause>that's why they produce shortened wagons, many "hobby" rail networks have too sharp turns to handle wagons >25cm properly
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19:28<Eddi|zuHause>and those extra 5cm of length may make the difference of having 3 or 4 wagons on the train fit into the station
19:28<Elukka>they might run, but they need a lot of space around the tracks and look stupid on curves
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>"Was können Kühe ohne zu sterben?"
19:32<Eddi|zuHause>"Ins Gras beißen"
19:45<Elukka>i have plenty of 360 mm radius curves :(
19:56<supermop>what is the current version of grfcodec?
19:56<Eddi|zuHause>5.something
19:56<supermop>does it automatically renum or not?
19:57<Eddi|zuHause>it includes nforenum, but does not execute it automatically
19:57<supermop>i think its been over a year since i've encoded with it...
20:00<supermop>hmm too hungry to think straight, ill have to try again after dinner
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20:49<supermop>alright
20:50<supermop>that seems to work
20:51<supermop>can I make a grf from several small .nfo files rather than one long one that is tens of thousands of lines long?
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20:57<Eddi|zuHause>yes and no
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>if you forgive the expression
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21:06<supermop>hmm
21:06<supermop>how do you mean?
21:11<supermop>do i simply type a long list of nfo files into grfcodec?
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21:39<supermop>is there a grfcodec readme somewhere?
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23:48<supermop>how do i make grfcodec use nforenum?
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---Logclosed Tue Sep 27 00:00:27 2011