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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-10-01

---Logopened Sat Oct 01 00:00:54 2011
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03:04<@Terkhen>good monring
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05:38<__ln__>hi W01
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05:48<Eddi|zuHause>so we have a version 1.1.13 now?
05:48<@planetmaker>the lucky version
05:49*Rubidium wonders what he's missing... tt-ms?
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06:12<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i don't think we need "special transport wagons for luxury horses"
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06:22<@planetmaker>lol. :-)
06:31<Eddi|zuHause>apparently the DRG built 5 of these in 1935 prior to the olympic games, they were refitted with express wagon bogies
06:47<Wolf01> lolwut?
06:49<__ln__>Wolf01: that's a shortened version of the original which is about as old as the internet.
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07:23<xmirakulix>I just updated the extrazoom patch(es) to apply against the current trunk
07:23<xmirakulix>does anybody have deeper knowledge about patch queues in mercurial?
07:24<xmirakulix>Does it support you in maintaining patches that mutually depend on each other in order to compile?
07:24<@planetmaker>yes, it does so
07:25<@planetmaker>a queue is actually exactly that: a stack of patches. The firs depends on nothing. The next (can) depend on the first. etc
07:25<xmirakulix>that i know
07:25<@planetmaker>then I didn't understand your question :-)
07:26<xmirakulix>but in the ez repo the two patches on top of each other depend mutually each on another
07:26<Ammler>the order defines the dependency...
07:26<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: i've seen a version of that with explanations what actually happened
07:26<xmirakulix>so the lower doesn't compile with the one on top
07:26<@planetmaker>then it would make sense to make it one patch, wouldn't it?
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>xmirakulix: either merge them, or split them further apart
07:27<xmirakulix>yes, I thought that too :)
07:27<@planetmaker>each patch can be whatever you want. Of course you can make a patch which will break compilation and only fix that in a subsequent patch
07:27<Ammler>you can't apply the lower without applying the higher, without moving
07:28<@Terkhen>I prefer to use patches that are "complete": you should be able to compile each one requiring only all the previous ones
07:28<@Terkhen>that way it is way less confusing
07:29<@Terkhen>and it is easier to test each one if you need to go back and make changes
07:29<xmirakulix>I do too
07:29<@planetmaker>xmirakulix: what you can do with mq is "guard" patches. That is tell a patch further down in the queue to only apply when another patch has been applied previously
07:29<xmirakulix>thats exactly my opinion Terkhen
07:29<@planetmaker>xmirakulix: I guess most people in this channel have that opinion ;-)
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07:30<@planetmaker>"as small as possible / sensible". But never break compilation
07:31<xmirakulix>right :)
07:31<xmirakulix>just wanted to know, if mercurial had any magic to deal with this. seems it hasn't :)
07:32<Ammler>he, it has, people just do not prefer it
07:34<@Terkhen>to deal with what?
07:34<Ammler>multiple patches depending on others
07:34<xmirakulix>not compiling patches
07:34<xmirakulix>mutually depending patches
07:34<@Terkhen>I never had the need to use something like that so I can't help you there
07:35<@Alberth>mercurial does not require compilability, you do
07:35<Ammler>you are not able to apply patch2, if patch1 isn't applied
07:35<Ammler>(without moving)
07:35<Ammler>quite simple dependency, isn't it? :-)
07:36<@Alberth>xmirakulix: mercurial as well as most other VCSes do not say how to use them, you can use them in any way you prefer. The trouble is of course that you have to find an approach that you like :)
07:36<xmirakulix>Ammler: No it isn't in case of the extra zoom patches on openttdcoop
07:36<Ammler>that is just one patch there
07:37<Ammler>the compilefarm.diff is ignoreable...
07:37<xmirakulix>no, its a queue that contains along with others the ez.diff and the lookupcolour.diff that depend on each other
07:37<Ammler>on eachother?
07:37<@planetmaker>xmirakulix: a bit besides the current point: do you just want to update the extra zoom patch or do you want to really implement the feature? :-)
07:37<Ammler>bot patches don't work alone?
07:37<@Alberth>xmirakulix: so your pre-decessor clearly had different ideas about how to use the queue
07:38<@planetmaker>Personally I think the EZ needs to be completely separate from 32bpp...
07:38<xmirakulix>Alberth: yes, thats now obvious to me :)
07:38<xmirakulix>Ammler: no, they dont
07:38<Ammler>ok, that is silly, imo
07:39<xmirakulix>and a pain to maintain and test
07:39<Ammler>xmirakulix: if you prefer, you could also make fork/branch instead mq
07:39<xmirakulix>that's how I do it in my local git repo
07:40<Ammler>the ez patch on devzone is kinda stalled
07:40<@Alberth>forking/branching has the disadvantage that pulling the patch into small pieces is non-trivial
07:40<Ammler>but on the other side, you chould be able to create a patc from your git and reaplce the hg mq
07:41<xmirakulix>yeah, that's why I updated it today, LordAro asked me to update the separate patch files, so they can be published there
07:41<Ammler>Alberth: merging is easier imo
07:41<@planetmaker>xmirakulix: like Ammer says, the EZ there is stalled... it probably would be nice if someone would pick it up again
07:41<@Alberth>Ammler: not for trunk-inclusion, where you need many small patches
07:41<xmirakulix>I just did so :)
07:42<@planetmaker>xmirakulix: personally I have the idea that zoom should work independent of blitter
07:42<@planetmaker>and the whole thing could be cut into two separate queues:
07:43<Ammler>planetmaker: you should also think about, if it is really worth to keep 8bpp
07:43<@planetmaker>a) zoom b) extra sprites for other zoom levels and maybe c) improve 32bpp blitter / handling
07:43<@Alberth>Ammler: ditch all newgrfs?
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07:44<Ammler>Alberth: last time I checked, I was able to use newgrfs with 32bpp blitter
07:44<@planetmaker>a) might be achieved by means of independent of blitter
07:44<@planetmaker>then one has no issue there
07:44<TrueBrain> <- scale2x at work :D
07:44<TrueBrain>(wrong game, but I dont care :P)
07:45<xmirakulix>could you give me a head up on the plans on trunk inclusion of any of a, b or c?
07:45<@planetmaker>xmirakulix: all three are desirable features
07:45<frosch123>is opendune already ported to the quake engine?
07:45<TrueBrain>frosch123: depends; did you make the plans for that and executed them?
07:46<@planetmaker>but I think a) is the most important one
07:46<TrueBrain>(why on earth would anyone want to 'port' a 2D game to a 3D engine?)
07:46<@Terkhen>I remember a nice thread about scaling methods for a)
07:46<@planetmaker>as b) clearly would depend on it
07:46<@Terkhen>TrueBrain: someone at tt-forums is suggesting to port OpenTTD to the unreal engine :)
07:46<@planetmaker>Terkhen: that's where I bookmarked that page from
07:47<TrueBrain>Terkhen: what is wrong with that person?
07:47<frosch123>TrueBrain: nothing, he will present his results in only 6 months :)
07:47<TrueBrain>people do love their random suggestions, dont they?
07:47<TrueBrain>frosch123: like the C# port I guess?
07:47<@Terkhen>nothing, the suggestion is wrong, not the person :P
07:48<frosch123>TrueBrain: who cares about c# :) today they want facebook apps :p
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07:48<Eddi|zuHause>there's plenty of these suggestions as well :p
07:48<TrueBrain>Terkhen: to come up with something like that, you do need one twisted mind, or a very small IQ :P
07:49<TrueBrain>frosch123: lolz; I got asked by a customer if we too compile our PHP code via the facebook compiler
07:50<@Terkhen>you got to be kidding :P
07:50<xmirakulix>You know that they do "compile" php code?
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07:51<xmirakulix>It's called HipHop, translates php code to c++
07:52<TrueBrain>xmirakulix: I just said that, didn't I?
07:54<xmirakulix>TrueBrain: Yes you did :)
07:54<TrueBrain>you just wanted to show off, ah, I see :)
07:56<@Alberth>however, xmirakulix showed me that the customer is less crazy than I thought.
07:57<@Alberth>as in, he was referring to an actual piece of software :)
07:57<xmirakulix>that was my original intention :)
07:58<frosch123>now i wonder what is worse: git, php, hiphop or facebook
07:58<@planetmaker>frosch123: a combination thereof ;-)
08:03<TrueBrain>Alberth: you didn't know? Pfff :P
08:04<TrueBrain>one of the worst inventions ever :P
08:04<TrueBrain>to improve performance of a broken language by compiling it to a sane language ... the world is doomed ;)
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08:07<frosch123>damn... i put a hangar into the orders instead of the airport, and wondered why it does not make any profit :p
08:07<@Alberth>I stay far enough away from horror software to miss such 'news' completely
08:07<TrueBrain>frosch123: you play the game?
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08:07<TrueBrain>Alberth: ghehe :D
08:07<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: typical newbie mistake :p
08:07<@Alberth>TrueBrain: we pay him to do that :)
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08:07<TrueBrain>wuth? He gets paid?! :P
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08:44<vpelletier>hi. I'm new to openttd (and ttd in general), and started to play with 1.1.3 (debian sid). I find the window placement quite annoying on a large screen (1920x1200), as very often new windows are spawned at what feels like the furthest possible screen location from cursor...
08:44<vpelletier>is there a way to tweak that ? (didn't find anything about this in advanced settings, although I did find sticking-window-border distance setting)
08:45<@planetmaker>iirc, the only way would be to change the source code
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08:52<vpelletier>found in the code, thanks
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08:56<frosch123>first time someone is happy about that answer :)
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09:20<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: is it normal that scripts/ contains the line "clean::" with two :?
09:20<@planetmaker>Clean is a double-colon target. All occurances work independently of eachother
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>what's the meaning of it?
09:21<@planetmaker>thus one can add additional clean code without changing where the original code is implemented
09:21<@planetmaker>all parts executed, but independently
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>my syntax highlighting seems to fail on that... or i don't understand it
09:22<@planetmaker>thus the clean:: in cleans only that part which also generates.
09:22<@planetmaker>It's called in parallel (or before or after) the clean:: target in Makefile.common
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i think i get it
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>i just have never seen this before, and it looked weird
09:23<@planetmaker>for clean it's the cleanest solution for making it modular (pun intended ;-) )
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09:23<Elukka>heh, google translate
09:24<Elukka>"Small cattle shed cars to model sheet A8 genus districts Altona"
09:24<Elukka>"For the promotion of small livestock (pigs, calves, sheep, goats, poultry). Unloaded compartments are loaded with individual pieces by exploiting animals."
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>i think it's about 70% accurate :)
09:25<Chris_Booth>its readable XD
09:25<xmirakulix>poor exploited animals…
09:26<vpelletier>is there a way to build openttd to run from working copy ? it compalins about not finding opensfx (otherwise available from system, installed by package)
09:26<frosch123>whoo, my gold mine increased from 6 to 18 bags a month
09:26<Eddi|zuHause>the grammar is a little off... the "exploiting" ("ausnutzen") refers to optimal space usage. not the animals
09:26<frosch123>now 2 helicopters cannot handle it anymore :p
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09:27<Eddi|zuHause>how is 6 pieces per month even possible?
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>when the industry produces 8 to 9 times a month
09:27<@planetmaker>vpelletier: if opensfx is installed in the default localtion it *should* work.
09:27<Elukka>Eddi, i figure 'association type' refers to standardized wagons of the german... something... railway car association, but what's interfchange type and what do the city names in wagon classes refer to?
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>"interchange" because most parts were standardized by then, so replacement parts could be easily interchanged
09:28<@planetmaker>otherwise... search path for it is
09:28<xmirakulix>vpelletier: you should have an OpenTTD folder in your homedir
09:29<vpelletier>planetmaker: $ dpkg -L openttd-opensfx\n[...]\n/usr/share/games/openttd/data/opensfx-0.2.3.tar\n[...]
09:29<vpelletier>no idea what is standard :)
09:29<@planetmaker>the readme tells you /usr/games
09:29<@planetmaker>thus your distro uses a non-standard path
09:29<@planetmaker>and probably put the other things also in a non-standard path
09:29<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: by transferring the cargo in units of 6 to the station
09:30<@planetmaker>and compile openttd also to use the non-standard path
09:30<@planetmaker>which fails on self-compiled binaries
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>vpelletier: the path must be given to configure
09:30<@planetmaker>(unless specifically told to change that, too)
09:31*vpelletier slaps himself a bit around with a trout
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>something along the lines of "./configure --shared-dir=/usr/share/games"
09:31<vpelletier>I used /usr/games/openttd as the prefix...
09:31<vpelletier>whereas /usr works
09:32<vpelletier>time to test my revolutionary window placement algorythm...
09:39<Elukka>always thought the bavarian coal cars looked american, apparently they were based on american ones
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09:57<vpelletier>as such, it deadcode-ify auto placement function
09:59<vpelletier>but at least, with this code I'll stop having to move all the way through the screen for the just-opened window
10:00<vpelletier>I'll try to play with this more than just testing to see if it's easier to live with than original auto-placement
10:10<frosch123>it will likely suck when opening multiple windows in a row
10:10<frosch123>like pressing clone multiple times
10:12<vpelletier>it will also probably suck with a stylus, as I read it is supported in the code
10:13<vpelletier>I initially wanted to place window next to its parent, finding closest open space...
10:13<vpelletier>but the code is much more complex, and requires knowing parent position - which I couldn't find from a quick search
10:13<vpelletier>so I went with cursor position
10:15<@Alberth>w->left and w->top :)
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>designing proper UI is tricky :)
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10:18<vpelletier>Eddi|zuHause: indeed. and I don't intend to blame auto-placement code author :)
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10:19<vpelletier>Alberth: I thought it was the toolbar
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10:19<Eddi|zuHause>vpelletier: most of the UI is from before "standard" GUIs like Windows were widespread
10:19<@Alberth>vpelletier: everything is a window, including the toolbar and the main display
10:19<vpelletier>I mean, I don't know which is the parent winfow from which new one is created
10:20<vpelletier>Alberth: indeed, but I don't know how to get the right "w"
10:20<@Alberth>w->parent not filled in at that time?
10:20<vpelletier>mmh, I didn't notice a ->parent was available
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12:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22968 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_road.cpp road_cmd.cpp): -Feature: Allow road corners on steep slopes.
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12:47<Eddi|zuHause>have i mentioned that i need "inverse foundations" to lay double tracks along a slope?
12:48<frosch123>i always build those on two levels
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12:53<Eddi|zuHause>there are a few other situations where you occasinally need to cut into the mountain
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>like trying to place a wide curve
12:56<Wolf01>frosch123, what's allowed more than before with this feature?
12:56<frosch123>before steep slopes allowed only straight uphill roads
12:56<frosch123>now you can build a corner at the top
12:57<Wolf01>uhm, maybe I don't remember well the game
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>can town houses already be placed on steep slopes?
12:57<frosch123>i guess default ones cannot
12:58<frosch123>however, we need a solution for building on steep slopes with the highest corner in the south
12:58<frosch123>build a half road on the top and then try to turn it into a straight downhill road :p
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>we need it displaying the road bit
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>nobody ever implemented that
12:59<Eddi|zuHause>there are sprites for that in the forum
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>i mean similar to how autorail displays the rail bit
13:01<frosch123>does not help in this case :p
13:02<frosch123>maybe the mouse movement should consider the direction it comes from
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13:02<frosch123>so the selection stays behind the foundation when approaching from the back, and it stays on the foundation when approaching from the front
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13:04<Eddi|zuHause>all that needs is a "trigger" whether the curser left the currently selected tile
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13:19<Rubidium>LordAro: after sunset ;)
13:19<LordAro>not for me :)
13:20<Rubidium>poor LordAro!
13:20*LordAro doesn't see how that is bad...
13:21<Rubidium>are you sure sunset hasn't passed for you yet?
13:21<LordAro>(i can't see outside atm)
13:21<Rubidium>it's pretty light outside for me as well, yet the sun has set already
13:22*LordAro googles
13:23*LordAro stops googling, and remembers why he came on here
13:24<LordAro>is there a good example in ottd code i can code for converting a char* to utf format?
13:26<Rubidium>utf8 is an encoding that uses chars as storage
13:26<Rubidium>but there are many other encodings that use chars as storage
13:27<Rubidium>so the real question is what encoding you want to convert the input data from is
13:28<Rubidium>and whether that encoding uses a single byte or multiple bytes
13:28<@Alberth>wouldn't just utf-8 support not be enough?
13:28<LordAro>Alberth: that is the intention :)
13:28<@Alberth>given that you cannot in general guess the encoding from a file
13:30<@Alberth>if so, Utf8EncodedCharLen could be the elementary function
13:30<@Alberth>hmm, you may also need to really convert to code points otherwise you cannot detect whitespace and such
13:31<LordAro>the name 'oberhuemer' (with umlout) is a good testing example - the 'u' is displayed in the grf (short) description, but is just a '?' in the readme
13:31<@Alberth>have a look in string.cpp & friends for some functions
13:31<Rubidium>in any case, OpenTTD assumes that all internal strings are utf8 encoded strings
13:32*frosch123 would blame the readme in first instance as well
13:32<@Alberth>another good reason to assume utf-8 (otherwise you'll have to convert your encoding to utf-8 :)
13:33<LordAro>so... what do i have to do? :)
13:33<@Alberth>LordAro: it is possible that 'oberhuemer' is not utf-8, but eg some windows encoding
13:34<LordAro>true - i guess strings in grfs are automagically converted to utf-8
13:34<@Alberth>nothing automagic there either, it is all programmed (but not by us) :p
13:34<Rubidium>LordAro: somewhat sometimes, though generally they are just utf8 encoded
13:35<Rubidium>or plain ASCII, in which case they are (by definition) utf8 encoded as well
13:36<LordAro>so, do i need to do anything, or just 'blame the readme'?
13:36<Rubidium>blame the readme
13:37<LordAro>great! :)
13:37<@Alberth>LordAro: convert the readme to utf-8 to check :p
13:37<Rubidium>ghehe... then you first need to guess the encoding
13:38<Rubidium>though, iconv may help you
13:38<Rubidium>and `file` may tell you the encoding (in some cases)
13:38<Rubidium>iconv is a tool for codepage conversions
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13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22969 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 3 changes by sebastian_my
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: traditional_chinese - 4 changes by sebastian_my
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: danish - 2 changes by beruic
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: latvian - 25 changes by Parastais
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13:46<LordAro>Rubidium: ok, is it used in the source anywhere?
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13:47<Rubidium>LordAro: just some OSX code
13:48<Rubidium>but you shouldn't use it in OpenTTD as you can't correctly guess the codepage. I mentioned it so you can convert the oberhuemer readme to utf8 for testing
13:48<LordAro>oh right
13:49<LordAro>oh, and i think i found a bug - view the description of the icarus set (5.3 IIRC)
13:49<LordAro>comes up with 'DrawString being used to draw newlines' etc
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13:52<Rubidium>might be a difference between '\r\n' and '\n'
13:53<LordAro>should i make a ticket? or will it be fixed in the next few minutes? :)
13:54<Rubidium>LordAro: FS#4769?
13:54<LordAro>that looks like it :)
13:55<LordAro>i'll add some info
13:55<Rubidium>that set is buggy
13:55<LordAro>but surely ottd should handle it (better)?
13:56<@Yexo>how should it handle it better?
13:56<@Yexo>nothing actually goes wrong
13:56<LordAro>"please notify the developers of this"
13:57<@Yexo>at that point openttd can't determine where the string came from
13:57<frosch123>we could add a blacklist of broken grfs :p
13:57<@Alberth>LordAro: 'this' meaning the newgrf
13:58<LordAro>if title has a newline in it, [strip/do not show/whatever] newgrf
13:59<LordAro>i g2g
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15:37<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, probably not.
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16:03<Elukka>amazing how much stuff we've shot up to space
16:04<Elukka>while i was out for perhaps 15 minutes, discussing life, the universe and everything with a friend
16:04<Elukka>we saw four satellites (and a couple meteors)
16:04<Elukka>and jupiter was bright as hell
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16:06<Eddi|zuHause><Alberth> given that you cannot in general guess the encoding from a file <-- if you encounter a non-utf8 character, you can try to use an ASCII-esque fallback, like windows-1252, which will be "good enough" unless you have cyrillic texts
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>and if you meet lots of \0 characters, you can try utf16
16:13<@Alberth>some ad-hoc heuristic is stil 'not guessable in general' imho :)
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>no, of course not
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>but sometimes a bad heuristic is giving waaaay better results than the best exact algorithm :p
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>(especially if no exact algorithm exists)
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16:20<Rubidium>I'd not make any effort; just document openttd only supports utf8 readmes
16:21<Rubidium>saves so much effort
16:31<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22970 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_text.cpp newgrf_text.h): -Fix [FS#4769]: strip newlines from NewGRF strings that should not have newlines, e.g. the NewGRF's name
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16:49<vpelletier>as was detected, my window placement code is annoying when copying vehicles. otherwise, it's nicer to me than existing code
16:50<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: I think the CETS wagon cargo classes need some special case for FIRS 'BEER' (exp+piece+liquid)
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>put that at the end of the priority list ;)
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>or better: write that into the cargo wagon ticket
16:52<Elukka>oh google translate again
16:53<Elukka>"Märklin Dampflok Br. 50 MFX Sound aus 29500 Neuware"
16:53<Elukka>is "Märklin Steam Locomotive Br 50 29 500 MFX sound from virgin"
16:56<@planetmaker>hehe :-)
16:56<@planetmaker>not that I entirely understand the German either
16:58<Rubidium>isn't it logical?
16:59<Rubidium>brand: Maerklin, type: Dampflok BR. 50 MFX, extra info: sound from <location>, where location is postal code and town name ;)
17:01<Elukka>it's just supposed to say 'märklin steam locomotive br 50, mfx sound decoder, new, from the 29500 set"
17:02<@planetmaker>Rubidium: 29500 would be very lucky to have that as post code ;-) ... though feasible, of course
17:03<@Alberth>just search your new house by postal code :)
17:05<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: Ticket commented
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17:20<Monarch1st>are real people on today?
17:20<supermop_>I am not real
17:21<Monarch1st>good neither am i
17:21<Monarch1st>i've got a question about openttd stations
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>i have an answer, but i don't know if it fits your question
17:24<Monarch1st>ha! all we do is try it and see
17:24<Monarch1st>i'm trying to set up a advanced 2-bay terminus staion
17:25<Monarch1st>as seen on the wiki, about 2/3 of the way down
17:25<Monarch1st>(under the heading 'variations')
17:26<Monarch1st>i've tried to copy it precisely, but whenever there is a train in the right side, it will not let a train out of the right side
17:26<Monarch1st>there seems to be missing a signal that clears the others when the train fully enters the right side
17:26<Monarch1st>am i missing something?
17:27<Monarch1st>sorry that should be will not let a train out of the left side
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17:30<Eddi|zuHause>there's probably one under the bridge that you missed
17:31<@planetmaker> <-- you find many savegames and station designs in that archive, Monarch1st
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17:32<@planetmaker>and.. one can link images directly instead of "2/3 down"
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17:33<@planetmaker>and some more stations:
17:33<Monarch1st>didnt know you could put a signal under a bridge - which would it be, vertical bar or horizontal bar, and i'm thinking one way out?
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>Monarch1st: on the way out only normal signals are needed
17:33<Monarch1st>(dont know much about signals, only get the game out once a year or so, and forget what i learned last time!)
17:34<Monarch1st>ah, good to know
17:35<Monarch1st>hey, that did indeed work! cool beans
17:35<Monarch1st>can a not be made on the wiki page marking this?
17:36<@planetmaker>it's a wiki...
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>it's a wiki, just put it there
17:42<Monarch1st>my first time editing a wiki. eeeexcellent
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17:59<supermop_>hey planetmaker, do you think I should wait for nml before doing anymore work on my grf?
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19:01<Wolf01>uhm, I can't get the mean of the new "road corners on step slopes" feature
19:01<z-MaTRiX>someone needs data deduplication script?
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: what's the problem? you can now place road curves where you couldn't any before
19:02<Wolf01>that's what I can't get!
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19:03<Wolf01>i can't found any new road configuration which I wasn't able to build before
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: steep slopes are number 23,27,29 and 30 in this picture:
19:06<Wolf01>ok, maybe now I understood
19:10<Wolf01>I was clicking in the middle of the tile so I was placing a straight road instead of the roadbit
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19:17<Elukka>why are they called steep slopes?
19:17<Elukka>they don't seem any steeper to me
19:18<Eddi|zuHause>they pass 2 heightlevels in one tile
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>so in manhattan metric they have steepness 16hu/16lu, while normal slopes have 8hu/16lu. and even in euclidean metric it would turn out steeper gradient
19:20<Eddi|zuHause>that's also (partly) why we don't have diagonal rails on slopes
19:24<Elukka>i see
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19:31<supermop>Can you have more than 16 station types in one station category?
19:37<Wolf01>'night all
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19:43<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: i was under the impression the limit was 256
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>but i have actually no clue
19:49<supermop>i am grasping at straws
19:49<supermop>as to what might be causing this not to work
19:50<supermop>it's really simple nfo
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---Logclosed Sun Oct 02 00:00:56 2011