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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-10-03

---Logopened Mon Oct 03 00:00:57 2011
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02:32<Markk>Oi :)
02:44<norbert79>Morning Markk !
02:45<Markk>How are you doing? :)
02:45<Markk>Are you better than last week?
02:46<norbert79>Better, thank you, catched something like a flu, got KO-ed for the last 4 days
02:46<norbert79>I am not recovered full, but feeling ok
02:46<Markk>Good that you're better atleast.
02:46<norbert79>Was a bit early for flu :)
02:47<norbert79>And you Markk ?
02:47<Markk>Alot of people here catches cold and flu's atm.
02:47<Markk>It's fine. :)
02:48<Markk>I've slept well, eaten breakfast, got my morning cigarette (even 4 of them already :x ), got my morning bike ride (from the bus to work, about 15 mins) and also my morning coke. :)
02:49<Markk>So, I shouldn't complain I guess. :)
02:49<norbert79>Sounds nice
02:51<Markk>Yes, indeed it is. :)
02:51<norbert79>Do you know the movie Matrix, I assume, right?
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02:51<Markk>Would be perfect with some OTTD right now, but I don't think my supervisor would fancy that as much as I would. :)
02:52<Markk>Think I've seen all of them.
02:52<norbert79>And do you also know the movie it was basically based of, Dark City from 1998?
02:52<Markk>Hm, I don't, acctually. :o
02:53<norbert79>Well, during the weekend I had a chance watching it, and I must say it was quite exciting and interesting for me
02:53<__ln__>Better watch the Director's Cut though.
02:53<norbert79>__ln__: Did
02:53<norbert79>__ln__: I must say I was impressed
02:54<norbert79>Mr Hand :)
02:54<__ln__>But that Matrix would be based on Dark City... I don't think that's possible.
02:55<norbert79>__ln__: Ehm, shall I come with pages, which compare both movies? (DC - Matrix 1)
02:55<norbert79>There are tons of similarities
02:55<norbert79>and you can feel on Episode 1, that it was extraordanary, while 2nd and the 3rd episode kinda sucked
02:57<norbert79>__ln__: - Actually this article made me to watch Dark City
02:57<__ln__>norbert79: I know, but the premiere of Dark City was only 13 months before the premiere of Matrix.
02:58<norbert79>__ln__: Sure, but 13 months are a lot of time
02:58<__ln__>Which IMHO is a short time to copy the ideas, write a script, shoot, do a lot of special effects, and have it released.
02:58<norbert79>__ln__: Nah, you would be suprised...
02:58<norbert79>__ln__: Besides, the main focus was on bullet time
02:59<norbert79>either way the Watchowsky brothers could gather a copy of the screenbook of Dark City any time
02:59<__ln__>norbert79: While you're at it, you could also watch ExistenZ, the third movie from the same era with a sort of similar theme.
03:00<norbert79>__ln__: Now you made me curious
03:00<norbert79>__ln__: I watched the 13th Floor too, which also was used by the Watchowsky brothers
03:00<__ln__>Oh yes, that's the fourth.
03:00<norbert79>Let me check ExistenZ
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03:00<norbert79>13th floor rocked too :)
03:01<norbert79> - No shots from the movie... Dang
03:01<norbert79>Hah, found some though on
03:02<norbert79>I think I have seen this, or at least I can remember having seen it on German television once
03:02<norbert79>yet not in full
03:02<norbert79>I remember the controllers
03:03<norbert79>I should rewatch it again... Thanks for the tip __ln__
03:06<norbert79>__ln__: Basically if you recall the end of Matrix 2, you remember a scene where Neo disables some sentry robots in real life with the same method he used within the Matrix. That was the point, where I stopped watching Matrix, but if you also recall Dark City, you remmeber the main character doing the same, yet there was at least an explanation to that how he was able doing so. Yet that scene is also an exact proof of copying Dark Cit
03:06<norbert79>y, but it was used at the worst part of the story...
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03:07<__ln__>I've been trying to forget Matrix 2 and 3 because they sucked so much.
03:08<norbert79>__ln__: So does everyone :))
03:08<norbert79>__ln__: Yet the scene with the candy and the girl was fun :D
03:08<norbert79>I mean dessert
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03:54*__ln__ has forgotten
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04:33<devilsadvocate>z-MaTRiX: one day as 1 day in game would be impossible to play with
04:34<devilsadvocate>and what about construction? would you wait for a month for your first track to be laid?
04:34<norbert79>devilsadvocate: That would be quite a challenge :))
04:37<b_jonas>as long as you still have a fast-forward control...
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05:32<appe>seriosly, wouldnt it be nice as a parameter?
05:33<appe>where the setting goes from normal (plus fast-forward), slow, slower, slowester, slowie mc'finnegan and realistic
05:34<appe>you dont have to change track completion
05:34<norbert79>peter1138: I would also call it 'real time' instead
05:34<appe>simply change the ratio between city growth and game speed.
05:34<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, "simply"
05:35<appe>as an idea, of course
05:35<@peter1138>one tick every ~ 19 minutes
05:36<@peter1138>that would be painful
05:36<appe>you guys always use the fast-forward button?
05:37<norbert79>appe: Almost never
05:37<norbert79>appe: it's fast enough for me already
05:37<norbert79>appe: In Single I tend using the 'Pause' often
05:37<norbert79>while thinking
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05:38<appe>ah, i see
05:38<Eddi|zuHause>same here
05:42<V453000>I use pause only when debugging some signals tbh
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05:47<norbert79>moin planetmaker
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06:35<papa>why do i get Erro:failed to find agraphics set?
06:35<papa>i installed openttd 1.1.3 on ubuntu using a .deb from the site
06:35<z-MaTRiX>because you dont have one ?
06:35<papa>i have openttd.grf
06:35<papa>does that count?
06:36<papa>no_sound.obs ogfxh_tropical.grf opntitle.dat orig_win.obg
06:36<papa>ogfx1_base.grf ogfxi_logos.grf orig_dos_de.obg orig_win.obs
06:36<papa>ogfxc_arctic.grf ogfxt_toyland.grf orig_dos.obg
06:36<papa>ogfxe_extra.grf openttd.grf orig_dos.obs
06:36<@planetmaker>and where's opengfx.obg?
06:37<@planetmaker>why didn't you install OpenGFX via your package manager, too? It should be a recommended install for OpenTTD
06:38<papa>that makes sense
06:41<papa>thx brah
06:42<appe>is the standard maps and stuff also made as grfs?
06:43<norbert79>Standard maps?
06:44<norbert79>you mean heightmaps and scenarios? Those can be downloaded using the game's built-in downloading feature
06:44<appe>no, the type of map (tropical, etc) that comes with the game
06:45<@planetmaker>grf stands for "graphics resource files"...
06:45<appe>i see
06:45<@planetmaker>a NewGRF of course can totally re-define what "tropical climate" means
06:45<appe>i thought it was used only as additional information
06:45<appe>grf != newgrf
06:45<@planetmaker>yes and no
06:45<@planetmaker>grf includes the base sets.
06:46<@planetmaker>But generally NewGRF is a grf, too
06:46<appe>a newgrf is of course a grf, but the "new" is added to mark that it's not a part of the core?
06:46<appe>i see, thank you.
06:46<@planetmaker>you're welcome
06:46<Markk>appe: Get back to work now.
06:46<norbert79>Markk: Look who's talking ;-)
06:46<Markk>You shouldn't play with OTTD or yourself right now. :(
06:47<Markk>norbert79: :)
06:48<@planetmaker>Markk: why should he? It' a public holidy today ;-)
06:48<Markk>Nope. :)
06:48<Markk>Not here.
06:48<Markk>And I know he's at work, or atleast should be. :D
06:48<@planetmaker>see. Broaden your horizon ;-) :-P (scnr)
06:50<appe>Markk: markymark.
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07:00<FHerne>Would it be possible to make a NewGRF for whales?
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07:02<@planetmaker>I call that impatient ;-)
07:04<Eddi|zuHause>nah, there have been way worse :p
07:05<@peter1138>newgrf whales?
07:05<@peter1138>is that a ship type?
07:06<@peter1138>transports cargo type "jonah"
07:06<frosch123>do whales fly when filled with helium?
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly sure they explode :p
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>(given that you can prevent the gas from escaping in the first place)
07:07<appe>think of a balloon
07:08<appe>the ratio between the thickness of the plastic and the volume inside it
07:08<appe>would be a bit difficult with a whale.
07:08<appe>unless you are carvy mc'knife
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>is that a reference of some sort?
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07:46<Eddi|zuHause>Ammler: i'm still missing "email notification on commit"
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08:09<Ammler>Eddi|zuHause: you have enabled email notifications "for any event" ?
08:10<Ammler>might not work for commits, not sure
08:11<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is exactly the problem
08:12<Ammler>ok, I guess that it only meant for tickets
08:12<Ammler>and you do not want to use rss feed?
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>i'd have to set up yet another background program for that...
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>hm, exclude refrigerated from mail wagons?
08:18<Ammler>also you know the other IRC channel?
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08:29<Eddi|zuHause>no, i don't know any other irc channels.
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08:48<Eddi|zuHause>now it's getting totally weird... it complains that bitmask entries cannot be > 31, but after make clean it works...
08:49<@planetmaker>something not re-compiled maybe while it should? Which resulted in an index being >31 while it is not when properly re-generated?
08:51<Eddi|zuHause>all i did was change src/cargo_definitions.pnml
08:53<Eddi|zuHause>hm, cargo wagons 1870-1910: transport liquids in barrels on open wagons?
08:58<@planetmaker>why not?
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>narf, these damn cargo multipliers
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>need code like:
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>if (defined(GOOD)) { capacity : 2*<cap>; cargo: GOOD } else { capacity: <cap>; cargo: first_refittable }
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09:12<@planetmaker>eh? why not just via callback?
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: because if first_refittable happens to be GOOD, all capacities are halved
09:13<Eddi|zuHause>instead of the GOOD one doubled
09:13<@planetmaker>nah, just make an unconditional callback. Which returns the goods capacity and otherwise always the other
09:14<@planetmaker>independent of what cargos are defined
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>you mean cb15?
09:14<@planetmaker>but nml takes care of that
09:14<@planetmaker>you just set the units
09:14<@Terkhen>nml uses both IIRC
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>cb36 is subject to the multipliers
09:14<@planetmaker>nml handles both simultaneously
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: anyway, the default behaviour is plain stupid
09:15<@planetmaker>I still don't see your issue.
09:16<@planetmaker>Just set goods capacity via that cargo_capacity CB and you're done
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>it's more complicated than that
09:16<@planetmaker>in nfo
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>assume a wagon that is refittable to LVST and GOODS
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>and sets a capacity of 10
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>then by default it carries 10 LVST and 20 GOOD
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>now assume an industry set reshuffles the cargo slots, so GOOD comes before LVST
09:17<@planetmaker>the action0 capacity is totally unimportant, if you use the CB
09:18<Eddi|zuHause>now that same wagon carries 5 LVST and 10 GOOD
09:18<@planetmaker>^ that as target for cargo_capacity CB and it always should work
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>but then i have to know _all_ cargo multipliers
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09:20<@planetmaker>you don't care about them. You set the capacity
09:20<@planetmaker>20 goods. 10 other units
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>but i want to care about them
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09:21<@planetmaker>why do you want to care about them?
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>why not?
09:22<@planetmaker>for example to avoid the issue you complain about
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09:27<chats>can someone please help me i am trying to get ttd to run on my 64 bit vista system i can install it but it wont let me build anything
09:27<@planetmaker>start in 1950 and don't use NewGRFs
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09:27<@Terkhen>chats: what error do you get?
09:28<@planetmaker>If you use NewGRFs: make sure you start at a date where the NewGRFs supply vehicles
09:28<chats>i see i tried to start at 1850 for a longer game sorry i am not to good at this
09:28<supermop>should ogfx + vehicle sets supply earlier vehicles?
09:28<@planetmaker>it should not (yet)
09:29<supermop>didn't tto have a few from the 20's, so that when you started in 1930 they were there already?
09:30<@planetmaker>yes, one can start 1920+
09:30<supermop>i was testing my grf in alpine/north america/whatever the other day
09:30<supermop>with no other grfs
09:30<@Terkhen>supermop: IMO OpenGFX+ should supply earlier vehicles, yes
09:30<@Terkhen>as soon as I get nice sprites for earlier trucks :P
09:30<supermop>i didnt realize it bc i'd never played alpine before (i only had tto as a kid)
09:30<@Terkhen>hi Belugas
09:30<supermop>but i had nothing but the passenger boat when i started
09:30<chats>thankyou for the help been wanting to get this game again for years
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09:31<@Terkhen>chats: enjoy ;)
09:31<supermop>i did manage to build a nice ferry network while i waited for trains to be invented, so that I could build a train station to see if it worked...
09:38<Belugas>hello Terkhen :)
09:38<@Terkhen>I hope monday is going fine for you :P
09:39<supermop>ooooh grf is working!
09:39<Belugas>so far yes , thanks :) bad wether, but who gives a shit wne woking inside ;)
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09:44<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: err... is the makefile creating the grf twice?
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09:44<@planetmaker>no, why?
09:45<@planetmaker>it's calling nml twice
09:45<@planetmaker>once with -M --MT and once with --grf
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>because i was getting the warning twice
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>what does -M and -MT do?
09:50<Eddi|zuHause>and might that be the reason why changing cargo_definitions.pnml does not immediately get recognized?
09:55<@Yexo>planetmaker: there is no reason to call nml twice
09:55<@Yexo>you only need to recompute the dependencies when the final nml file has been changed, and at that time you also need to rebuild the grf
09:55<@Yexo>the two go hand in hand
09:56<@planetmaker>I need to recompute dependencies when one pnml file or (if used) one of the graphics source list files changed
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose we should not allow fish in a mail wagon
09:59<@planetmaker>Yexo: alternatively I'd have to get rid of the option to do a separate dependency check - which is bad, if you remove a dependency. As then make will fail and not re-generate dependencies as it should
10:00<@planetmaker>(now dependencies are not used / read during dependency generation)
10:00<@Yexo><planetmaker> I need to recompute dependencies when one pnml file or (if used) one of the graphics source list files changed <- but if one of those files changes, you also need to recompile the final grf
10:00<@Yexo>hmm, true
10:01<@Yexo>I forgot about removing dependencies
10:01<@Yexo>perhaps ignore the output from nml during depcheck?
10:01<@Yexo>2> /dev/null ?
10:01<@planetmaker>hm, probably a good idea
10:02<@Yexo>maybe not, what if nml fails to generate dependencies due to a bug in the nml code?
10:02<@planetmaker>also true
10:02<@planetmaker>but then make already failed
10:02<@planetmaker>but yes, we'd not know why...
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>perhaps a --quiet option to nmlc?
10:04<@peter1138>V453000, "Unfortunately there is one thing in OpenTTD to remember - the depot counters are ... weird" < bug report?
10:05<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: good idea, added to issue tracker as #3106
10:05<V453000>I think it is reported already
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it's not the depot counters that are off
10:05<@peter1138>(and the screenshot doesn't make sense, but if you're using invisible things, then i guess it's hard to see)
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>it's basically fs#3569
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>bounding boxes for shortened vehicles are still full length
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>(affects turning point in curves, reservations, etc.)
10:06<V453000>yes, that
10:07<@peter1138>iirc, curve speed was always based on number of wagons, not length
10:07<@peter1138>(not necessarily right ofc)
10:07<supermop>do only special types of fonts work in ottd?
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>curve speed is based on number of turns in the vehicle chain
10:07<V453000>that would be odd, shorter wagons would automatically slow down
10:08<@peter1138>supermop, no
10:08<supermop>whenever i set a custom font i just get a generic sans serif that doesnt look anything like it
10:08<V453000>as Eddi says, but the problem is that you dont "know" the length when the depot says something else
10:08<supermop>whether i use .ttf or .otf
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>the problem only shows if the last vehicle is (significantly) shortened
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>"cigarette smoke contains polonium-210"
10:09<V453000>[1].png those wagons arent that short, are they? :o
10:09<V453000>well, obviously are :(
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10:10<Eddi|zuHause>"the issue was discovered 40 years ago, but publishing was suppressed"
10:12<supermop>is there something I might be doing wrong but am missing?
10:13<supermop>i just put the path to the font in the cfg, right?
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: should rather use the font name
10:13<supermop>doesnt work when i do that
10:14<@Terkhen>that's how my font options look
10:14<@Terkhen>that works on both linux and windows
10:15<supermop>do i need to set the anti aliasing to true?
10:15<supermop>im just playing in 8bpp
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10:17<@peter1138>yeah, curve speed limits are still based on number of parts, not length
10:17<@peter1138>so that "bug" is expected
10:17<@peter1138>"does not fit in the station" ... well...
10:19<V453000>the only problem I have is that the depot tells me it should
10:19<V453000>but still, not a big problem
10:20<@peter1138>i look at that picture and i see a train fitting into the station...
10:21<V453000>which picture
10:21<V453000>well, then why is the track behind the station occupied
10:22<V453000>but the train does load with normal speed
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>reservations are affected by fs#3569, station loading not
10:22<@peter1138>is it actually occupied, or not unreserved?
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>do you ever listen to what i say?
10:23<V453000>peter1138: the block behind the signal is occupied
10:23<V453000>I can make a larger screenshot to make it visible if you want
10:23<@peter1138>looks empty to me ...
10:24<V453000>looks, isnt
10:25<@Terkhen>supermop: did you try what I pasted? (font name only, no path)
10:25<supermop>yes, but then i get an error on opening ottd
10:25<@Terkhen>what error?
10:25<supermop>one sec ill screen shot it
10:26*Terkhen just uses whatever name office uses for the font
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>hm... internet is acting up today... constantly getting dns errors
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: solution, put the invisible engine in front
10:29<V453000>interesting, works
10:29<@peter1138>i guess the problem is the concept of a wagon being on *a* tile
10:29<@peter1138>when clearly they are often on two tiles
10:30<@peter1138>thus you can enter and leave tiles independently...
10:30<supermop>ok I added another picture:
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10:35<@peter1138>_vehicle_initial_*_fract and _initial_tile_subcoord are scary
10:40<frosch123>V453000: peter1138: fs#3569
10:40<@peter1138>peter1138, yes, we know
10:41<frosch123>whenever the last vehicle is <= 4/8 it fails
10:41<@peter1138>and to fix it requires messing about with sprite offsets or some such
10:41<frosch123>ironically newgrf specs say that for ttdp short wagons only work at the end of a train, while it is the other way around for ottd :p
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>"fixing" this must be relayed to the GRFs
10:42<@peter1138>probably the same issue in ttdp
10:42<frosch123>(mind that short wagons do not work for ttdp at the end as well for the same reason)
10:42<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, every single newgrf that uses shorter wagons?
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i mean like a special flag similar to 32px vehicles
10:43<@peter1138>oh. possible.
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>any grf not setting this flag has the old behaviour
10:43<V453000>well, my newgrf is going to have only 0.5 tile wagons for a reason :P
10:43<supermop>Terkhen, that suppressed the error for Transport, but not for Minion
10:43<supermop>and in game the medium font still does not look like transport
10:44<@Terkhen>minion is truetype?
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10:44<supermop>minion is otf
10:44<supermop>i think
10:44<supermop>transport is ttf
10:44<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: ottd should put the vehicle on the tile which is in the middle of the shortened vehicle, not of a 8/8 vehicle
10:45<frosch123>no need for a flag in a newgrf
10:45<norbert79>supermop: OTF might not be supported by OpenTTD. it's a different format
10:45<frosch123>only for a complicated savegame conversion
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but that changes the values for var45 etc
10:45<supermop>that's a shame but understadable
10:45<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: you mean it fixes them? :p
10:45<supermop>but i dont get why the transport still does not appear
10:46<norbert79>supermop: Guess noone really came up with the need of supporting OTF
10:47<supermop>ah, about 90% of my fonts are otf, never thought about it until now
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: and how do you intend to handle sprite offsets?
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: they'd depend on travel direction
10:47<frosch123>the bounding box also depends on travel direction
10:48<frosch123>just add two more values to the table
10:48<supermop>ok I just tried the same thing with a true type font 'commercial script' copying the name out of MS Word, and still get that 0x1 error
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>but the anchor point is always the back (hidden) corner of the bounding box
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10:48<frosch123>not for vehicles
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>so if the vehicle drives towards you, and you shorten the bounding box, you need to offset the anchor point, where you didn't before
10:49<supermop>likewise with Bank Gothic
10:49<frosch123>Vehicle::x_offs any ::y_offs are already orientation specific
10:50<@Terkhen>supermop: Arial works?
10:52<supermop>lets see
10:52<@Terkhen>did you download the 9x binary/installer?
10:52<@peter1138>norbert79, openttd doesn't support fonts, treetype does
10:52<@peter1138>if freetype doesn't support otf... well
10:53<supermop>arial gives no errors, and looks like arial
10:53<supermop>I dont want arial in my game....
10:53<norbert79>peter1138: That arises a question since Freetype does support it
10:54<@peter1138>(heh, treetype :S)
10:55<@Terkhen>supermop: then I'm guessing that freetype does not support those fonts, but I don't know why
10:56*Terkhen never had those problems with the fonts that are included with windows, office or linux
10:56<supermop>bank gothic is included with office
10:57<@Terkhen>not with mine
10:58<supermop>i am sure i used it to write essays in highschool (before i had any adobe fonts etc)
11:00<@Terkhen>it's not included in windows 7 / office 2007, that's all I know :)
11:00<@Terkhen>what about writing "Bank Gothic" instead of Bank Gothic at openttd.cfg?
11:01<supermop>no luck
11:01<supermop>it seems like if any .ttf fonts are supported, all of them should be...
11:02<supermop>just tried "Transport Heavy"
11:03<supermop>no errors, but it renders as Arial
11:04<supermop>tahoma works
11:04<supermop>looks roughly more like tahoma than arial
11:07<supermop>although personally,
11:07<supermop>my goal isnt to have some random humanist san serif font
11:07<supermop>so i'd rather use the default sprite font than arial or tahoma
11:08<supermop>transport is a really good readable bold, so i thought it would work well at ttd scales
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11:15<supermop>That said, I am going to give up on the fonts, get some lunch, then finish this grf now that the first half is working
11:16<@peter1138>heh, it was a suggestion to see if other fonts would work, not a suggestion as to what to use :p
11:17<supermop>i cant figure out why transport does not work though, as it is also ttf
11:17<@peter1138>where can i get it?
11:17<@peter1138>oh, found it
11:17<@peter1138>might not be the same one mind you
11:19<supermop>there used to be a free version linked from its wikipedia page but i dont see it anymore
11:19<supermop>the designer has also released a ver expensve new version
11:21<@peter1138>doesn't work for me either
11:21<@peter1138>no error given
11:22<@peter1138>i get an italic courier as a substitute. lovely.
11:23<@peter1138>must be something in the way we open it, cos it works elsewhere
11:23<@peter1138>(i assume gnome is using freetype...)
11:24<@peter1138>incidentally it puts characters in wrong places
11:25<@peter1138>{ and } are replaced with 1/3 and 2/3 fractions
11:26<@peter1138>dbg: [freetype] Font "/usr/share/fonts/X11/75dpi/courO12.pcf.gz" misses no glyphs
11:26<@peter1138>why? :S
11:36<supermop>i know the fractions glyphs are for miles on highway signs
11:42<@peter1138>right, i disabled fontconfig
11:42<@peter1138>and it works
11:42<@peter1138>(and complains that some glyphs are missing)
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11:43<@peter1138>looks pretty bad too
11:44<supermop>what is fontconfig?
11:44<@peter1138>bad aliasing
11:44<@peter1138>i dunno if it's used on windows
11:44<@peter1138>it's used on *nix as a database of fonts
11:45<@peter1138>gah, antialiased fonts are terrible, why did i write that? :S
11:45<@peter1138>(i know why)
11:45<@peter1138>it needs to be a 2-stage process if there are shadows
11:46<@peter1138>maybe i should write that...
11:46<@peter1138>there's no % symbol :(
11:50<supermop>oh well
11:50<supermop>maybe it was never cut out for this anyway
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11:56<supermop>also cannot get this replica of the BR Rail Alphabet to work:
11:58<supermop>nah, the one further down
11:59<@peter1138>terrible too
12:00<supermop>these are amateur efforts
12:00<@peter1138>even less correct glyphs
12:00<supermop>well its only meant to contain glyphs used on british signs
12:00<@peter1138>yes i know
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12:10<supermop>i dont know what to name this station tile
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12:11<frosch123>"Station tile #1"
12:11<@planetmaker>I'd call the tile from your last link 'telescope tile' ;-)
12:12<supermop>i have no idea why that guy has fonts and random telescopes together
12:12<@planetmaker>light bucket?
12:12<frosch123>though, if you want to make it more interesting, you should call it "Station tile #2"
12:12<@planetmaker>haha :-)
12:13<supermop>ill put something up in a few minutes
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12:59<supermop>hmm grfcodec doesnt recognized dos palette?
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13:01<Eddi|zuHause>depends what you are trying to do
13:02<supermop>i set all these pcx files to the dos palette in photoshop, but it complains when encoding them
13:04<@planetmaker>then the error most likely is not in grfcodec
13:04<supermop>il just change them all to win
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>more likely your photoshop palette was wrong
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>grfcodec handles dos palettes just fine for everybody else
13:05<supermop>i downloaded it from a link that planetmaker posted
13:06<supermop>on devzone i thinl
13:06<supermop>anyway, be right back, I have to finally get lunch
13:07<@planetmaker>supermop: I've no idea whether that palette works or not - I personally can't test photoshop, but have to trust people who supply the palette info for it
13:08<@planetmaker>but it's most likely from either foobar or michi_cc - both of whom I'd assume to know what they do
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13:08<supermop>ok cool
13:08<supermop>i think i should stick with win anyway, as that was what i used in previous releases
13:09<@planetmaker>changing it for an existing NewGRF mostly is pointless...
13:09<supermop>anyway, thanks for everyone's help this morning
13:09<supermop>i will be back later
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13:19<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22975 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp saveload/group_sl.cpp): -Codechange: Do not store Group::num_vehicle in the savegame, but compute it like num_engines on load.
13:20<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22976 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp group.h group_cmd.cpp group_gui.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: Split group statistics into separate struct.
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13:20<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22977 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename SetCachedEngineCounts() to GroupStatistics::UpdateAfterLoad().
13:21<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22978 /trunk/src/ (group.h group_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: Replace IncreaseGroupNumVehicle() and DecreaseGroupNumVehicle() with GroupStatistics::CountVehicle().
13:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22979 /trunk/src/ (group.h group_cmd.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Codechange: Add GroupStatistics::CountEngine().
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13:22<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22980 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Add: GroupStatistics for DEFAULT_GROUP.
13:23<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22981 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Add: GroupStatistics for the ALL_GROUP.
13:24<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22982 /trunk/src/ (company_cmd.cpp company_gui.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_func.h): -Cleanup: Remove CountCompanyVehicles() and use ALL_GROUP statistics instead.
13:25<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22983 /trunk/src/group_gui.cpp: -Feature: Display the number of vehicles in the group GUI also for the ALL and DEFAULT groups.
13:25<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22984 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Feature: Display profit icons for groups in the group GUI.
13:26<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22985 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Display autoreplace status in group GUI.
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>while you're there: for the "ungrouped" group in the "manage list" dropdown an entry "split into shared order groups"
13:30<CIA-2>OpenTTD: frosch * r22986 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Add (r22985): More icons for the vehicle list.
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>foreach(vehicle) { group = find_shared_vehicle_with_group(vehicle); if (group == default_group) { group = create_new_group(); } add_to_group(group, vehicle); }
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13:43<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: translators * r22987 /trunk/src/lang/ (latvian.txt welsh.txt):
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: latvian - 54 changes by Parastais
13:45<CIA-2>OpenTTD: welsh - 122 changes by kazzie
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14:01<+michi_cc>planetmaker: I think andy reported that Photoshop somehow saves the palette of PCX files reversed of PNG files. I've extracted the palettes out of PNGs, so which is why it likely fails.
14:02<@planetmaker>ah, thanks
14:02<@planetmaker>sounds like a "useful" feature, though :S
14:07<+michi_cc>No idea if there even is a formal specification of PCX, but it likely only contains "here by 256 palette entries" anyway :) And storing stuff reverse isn't uncommon, just look at BMP files.
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14:15<Eddi|zuHause>so which one to do next: additional vehicle text, vehicle graphics variation or vehicle sprite slicing
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14:19<@Terkhen>hi andythenorth
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14:23<andythenorth>did I miss much?
14:23<andythenorth>it seems quiet here apart from the arguments
14:24<@Terkhen>a shiny new feature
14:24<andythenorth>road corners on steep slopes?
14:24<andythenorth>climate aware canal stuff?
14:25<Wolf01>bah, the newmaparray is like herobrine in minecraft
14:25<@planetmaker>hahaha :-)
14:25<@planetmaker>Believe the internet, read, the "Transport Tycoon" section:
14:25<@planetmaker>It's open source!
14:26<@Terkhen>andythenorth: full reimplementation of openttd in 3D
14:26<@planetmaker>andythenorth: climate-aware canals are > 2 years old ;-)
14:27<@Terkhen>no, they are only from yesterday
14:27<@planetmaker>uhm... no?
14:28<@planetmaker>Only for the TTD base set they're new
14:28<@Terkhen>oh :P
14:28*Terkhen never notices that stuff anyways :P
14:29<frosch123>snow-aware buoys are still missing
14:29<frosch123>though i have not seen buoys covered in snow :p
14:29<@planetmaker>yes... I don't find the buoy sprite :-)
14:29<@Terkhen>neither did I... maybe some ice chunks? :P
14:30<@planetmaker>yes, sounds good
14:37<andythenorth>I noticed we're remaking it in 3D
14:37<andythenorth>I believe there are two people forking for it? :P
14:37<andythenorth>should be done in double the time
14:40<frosch123>true, for 32bpp doubling the number of people involved might indeed double the time needed
14:41<andythenorth>it's probably near-geometric actually
14:41<andythenorth>adding four people probably increases the time by 12-16 times
14:41<andythenorth>due to communication ineffciency :P
14:47<andythenorth>is there any sane way to measure 'progress' for ottd development?
14:47<andythenorth>is it even a valid concept?
14:47<Rubidium>progress requires goals, doesn't it?
14:48<V453000>we exchanged rivers for reversing engines :P
14:49<andythenorth>what happened to bump up so much code in 2009?
14:49<@planetmaker>noai probably. or yapf. or both :-)
14:49<frosch123>yapf is like 2006/2007
14:50<@planetmaker>ah, I meant the path signals
14:50<frosch123>yapp is 2008
14:50<frosch123>merged on 2008-08-03
14:50<frosch123>easy to remember for me :p
14:50<@planetmaker>boah, that long ago?
14:50<frosch123>(birthday present)
14:50<@planetmaker>hm... significant date for you?
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14:50<@planetmaker>he :-)
14:51<andythenorth>progress is fewer open bugs? more users? more loc? more features? less features? fewer users? less loc?
14:51<andythenorth>(less / fewer / s)
14:52<frosch123>andythenorth: number of open fs bug tickets is no good measurement. there are too few of them
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>there is no canonic way to measure progress. only activity
14:52<frosch123>it is between 10 and 30 for years
14:53<andythenorth>activity is measurable how? commits? irc discussions? forum threads? downloads?
14:53<frosch123>though maybe we were at 6 when releasing 0.6.3 or so
14:53*andythenorth has no reason other than curiosity to ask this
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: typically number of commits, or number of changed lines, or similar
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14:54<@Terkhen>andythenorth: I don't understand your obsession with progress :P
14:54<andythenorth>it's an obsession with whether it is a valid question ;)
14:55<frosch123>i guess number of active developers (with commits in past 6 months) is most interesting
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14:55<andythenorth>one day we might find ourselves asking 'is ottd dying' questions (like ttdpatch and many other projects )
14:55<andythenorth>but they might be the wrong kind of question
14:55<frosch123>ok, with that measurement it is dieing :)
14:56<frosch123>since r20000 or so :p
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>depending on who you ask, openttd has been dying for years
14:56<frosch123>somewhen last year the number of commits per month dropped from 250 to 100
14:56<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause I believe there's a relevant quote about that :P
14:57<@planetmaker>I wonder why :-)
14:57<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: someone said, if ttdp dies, ottd dies as well :p
14:57<andythenorth>does ottd also pay taxes? :P
14:57<andythenorth>this balloon track is somewhat ttd-like:
14:57<@planetmaker>it has no expenses, andythenorth ;-)
14:58<frosch123>andythenorth: only sales tax
14:58<andythenorth>planetmaker: there are only two certainties in life... :)
14:58<@planetmaker>what's the other?
14:58<frosch123>for other stuff it would need to be registered somewhere :p
14:59<andythenorth>third quote here:
15:01<@planetmaker>ah, right
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15:05<andythenorth>also, in the immortal words of lisa loeb :P
15:05<andythenorth>"they've been dying since the day they were born"
15:05<andythenorth>which is highly philosophical :P
15:05<andythenorth>so is ottd dying? Or is that a tiresome question?
15:05<frosch123>[20:57] <planetmaker> I wonder why :-) <- today the majority of devs are not students
15:06<frosch123>andythenorth: usually the goal of an open source project should be: it dies if noone cares about it dieing
15:07<andythenorth>thereby achieving its destiny....
15:07<andythenorth>as all code dies
15:07<andythenorth>so the 'perfect' open source project is a dead one?
15:07<andythenorth>as in 'complete'
15:08<@planetmaker>a game from fossils for fossils?
15:08<andythenorth>complete = perfect = dead
15:08<frosch123>planetmaker: oh, and the development is more spreading now
15:09<frosch123>there is not only the ottd project, but also nml and opengfx
15:09<andythenorth>and noai
15:09<frosch123>and other grf projects
15:10<andythenorth>and soon! 3D!
15:10<@planetmaker>that's probably one of the main reasons
15:10<andythenorth>and a gui made in squirrel
15:10<andythenorth>and other ideas that suck
15:10<@planetmaker>sometimes I wonder whether things wouldn't become easier to setup if we bundled graphics with OpenTTD
15:10<frosch123>andythenorth: well, none of the usual ottd devs has a noai project; resp. i guess admiralai has a marginal impact
15:10<V453000>andythenorth: dont you make fun of it, the 3D will bring a whole new wave of people! :D
15:11<frosch123>however, ottd is growing which makes it harder for new guys getting involved
15:11<andythenorth>we don't bundle opengfx?
15:11<Kogut>@noai - is it possible to add small thing to waypoints? ( )
15:11<@planetmaker>it's not part of the main openttd package
15:11<andythenorth>bad out of the box experience
15:11<@planetmaker>the installer may install it, but not automatically
15:11<andythenorth>basically, 'batteries not included' :P
15:12<Rubidium>planetmaker: the installer installs it automatically (it's enabled by default the first time)
15:12<andythenorth>we should just buy atari, and ship the original graphics
15:12<andythenorth>if we all bought one share at a time, slowly...
15:12<@peter1138>DO IT
15:14<Kogut>@andythenorth it was suggested and rejected ( )
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15:14<@planetmaker> <-- where do we actually return var 0x8D / 0D?
15:15<Rubidium>planetmaker: we should be
15:15<frosch123>somewhere in newgrf.cpp
15:16<frosch123>*value = _cur.grfconfig->palette & GRFP_USE_MASK;
15:16<frosch123>i.e. the palette which is selected for the grf
15:17<@planetmaker>ah... 0D... I grep'ed for 8D
15:19<frosch123>ah, answering mb?
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15:20<frosch123>ottd also converts recolour sprites according to the palette setting
15:20<frosch123>so, it really does not matter what the grf does. ottd does it right
15:20<frosch123>(if a14 is right :p )
15:22<Rubidium>just say it returns the palette of the action 14
15:23<@planetmaker>hehe... live broadcasting is about 2...3 seconds lag - judging from a comparison of the noise from the nearby stadium and the life stream of the match ;-)
15:23<Rubidium>planetmaker: nice, ain't it
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15:24<frosch123>quite few delay
15:24<Rubidium>enough time to turn on the TV to see the goal
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15:24<frosch123>i guess tv is more
15:24<@planetmaker>Not sure that TV is more...
15:24<@planetmaker>I'd not assume it's an officially sanctioned stream ;-)
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15:27<supermop>they might have a delay so that they can cut out in case something they cannot show happens
15:28<@planetmaker>supermop: we're in Europe...
15:28<@planetmaker>not in the US ;-)
15:28<frosch123>supermop: we are in eu ... what pm said :p
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15:31<supermop>i imagine there are still penty of things that a european network would rather not show on live tv
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15:31<Rubidium>'allo 'allo in Germany (but that ain't live)?
15:32<+michi_cc>One main reason for live TV deals is still the way to a satellite and back. While the use of cable transmission is increasing, remote TV trucks are still mainly satellite.
15:32<supermop>well its not illegal in the us if someone does something offensive on live tv, but most networks would cut it out anyway to prevent the bad publicity
15:32<@planetmaker>yes... and probably "Sky" goes via satellite. And then via <wherever> to a Russian server and back to this town ;-)
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>i once had a local radio station simultaneously in FM and satellite, you notice a significant delay
15:33<@planetmaker>yes... Also national radio is always a second or two behind FM
15:33<Prof_Frink>You notice a delay between FM and DAB, never mind satellite.
15:33<@planetmaker>(compared with their stream)
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>did DAB2 actually take off better than the last try?
15:34<Prof_Frink>DAB is great.
15:35<Prof_Frink>Much better quality than...
15:35*peter1138 still has no DAB kit
15:35<@peter1138>better than AM?
15:35<Prof_Frink>R4 Longwave for listening to tms.
15:35<@peter1138>alway remember listening to R4 LW on the way down through france
15:36<+michi_cc>planetmaker: The satellite portion is mostly the remote truck to base station part, base station to broadcast station respectively cable TV head is increasingly becoming cable based.
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>what's R4?
15:36<Prof_Frink>BBC Radio 4!
15:36<@peter1138>BBC Radio 4
15:36<@peter1138>the one with the archers on
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: i'd have thought base station to broadcast station is likely "Richtfunk"
15:37<Prof_Frink>And other things you may have heard of. Like HHGTTG.
15:38<@planetmaker>Unless they uplink from the stadion to the satellite directly
15:38<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: It was, but for example with cable TV ARD/ZDF switched all remaining radio/satellite links to cable transmission concurrently with HDTV.
15:38<@peter1138>mind you there was always 1053/1089 on MW, back in the day...
15:39<@peter1138>music on MW isn' very nice thuogh
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15:40<+michi_cc>Not sure if all DVB-T emitters are wired, but I'd guess during the analog/digital switch the did that as well.
15:41<Eddi|zuHause> <- we should have that in openttd
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15:43<frosch123>why does the tram need to drive slow?
15:43<frosch123>do the houses move from time to time?
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the tram moves more left/right at higher speed. or it needs to wait for people to move away
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15:50<Der_Herr>Hi, is there a console command that allows to generate a map from a heightmap?
15:53<Rubidium>no(t yet)
15:54<Der_Herr>which means, there will be one soon or more far in future? ^^
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15:58<@planetmaker>that highly depends on *someone* writing a patch.
15:59<Rubidium>XeryusTC: in what way is not being able to look at a pro game a limitation by OpenTTD? Why can't you just remove the password from the server, set one on the company and reduce the allowed number of companies to 1? After all, a bot can also change the password of a company
16:00<XeryusTC>Rubidium: for how long has the server been able to change the password of a company?
16:00<supermop>should i bump the version number of my grf to 1.0.0?
16:00<@planetmaker>XeryusTC: > 1 year
16:00<@planetmaker>it's rather a limitation of ap+
16:00<@planetmaker>(if it can't do that)
16:01<supermop>i've rewritten it from scratch, and it uses different tiles now
16:01<XeryusTC>ah, i stand corrected then :)
16:01<@Terkhen>supermop: do you use any features that are only available from 1.0.0 upwards?
16:02<XeryusTC>i wonder why you have never notified us in .pro or our private universe about it so that it could actually be fixed so we can have people spectate ;)
16:02<@planetmaker>supermop: you do that when you think that the NewGRF is about feature-complete ;-)
16:02<@planetmaker>XeryusTC: it is known and iirc it was used for some time
16:02<@planetmaker>I don't know why it was not used anymore
16:02<@planetmaker>probably no-one adjusting apü+
16:03<Rubidium>XeryusTC: because I know of you having this problem for only about 5 minutes
16:03<supermop>i think so
16:03<XeryusTC>we had a static company password for a while i think, but that got changed for some unspecified reason even though it was actually a working system
16:03<XeryusTC>Rubidium: that question was directed at planetmaker ;)
16:04<Rubidium>also, dihedral has been pretty aware of the patch that introduced the feature
16:04<@planetmaker>XeryusTC: yes, I don't know (anymore) either why it was changed ;-)
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16:05<XeryusTC>also, in the most optimistic case it would only be changing the command in the the config of ap+, worst case it should only be a few lines i'd recon :o
16:05<@planetmaker>XeryusTC: and I assumed that to be common knowledge among those who administer the servers
16:05<@planetmaker>XeryusTC: then... go ahead
16:06<@planetmaker>(the usual answer, I know...) :-)
16:06<XeryusTC>you do know how good i am at breaking things right? :P
16:06<@planetmaker>yes :-P
16:07<@planetmaker>but so am I.
16:07<@planetmaker>Or anyone who touches code
16:17<Kogut>Stupid question - I see in code mysterious GB ( StationID station_to_join = GB(p2, 16, 16); )
16:17<Kogut>What is it?
16:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's why, whenever someone asks me what i am doing, i am saying: "i break everything"
16:18<@planetmaker>in that case 16 bits starting from bit 16 from variable p2
16:19<@planetmaker>(read backwards)
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16:19<@Terkhen>Kogut: src/core/bitmath_func.hpp IIRC
16:19<@planetmaker>it's a macro function defined... ^
16:19-!-Devroush [] has joined #openttd
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>i thought it's a template function nowadays
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16:21<CIA-2>OpenTTD: rubidium * r22988 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_changelog.hpp ai_vehicle.hpp ai_vehicle.hpp.sq): -Fix: don't return ERR_UNKNOWN when the vehicle would become too long
16:24<Kogut>oh, my bug
16:24<Rubidium>no, not your bug
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16:24<Kogut>@planetmaker, Terkhen - thanks
16:24<Rubidium>only related
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not entirely sure how to do length-refitting yet...
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>in a generic enough fashion
16:26<Kogut>I see
16:26<Rubidium>Kogut: as the failed preconditions are caused by the code
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16:28<Kogut>OpenTTDDevBlackBook/NoAI/Adding a squirrel function - "To make Squirrel aware of the new function, generate a new Squirrel interface file with Call that script from within the src/ai/api directory. " - is it required only for new functions?
16:29<Rubidium>for any API change
16:34<Kogut>"To make Squirrel aware of the changes, generate a new Squirrel interface file with Call that script from within the src/ai/api directory. " - is it possible to do it under Windows? According to wikipedia I need Thompson shell to run it.
16:34<Rubidium>get msys/mingw
16:34<Rubidium>or cygwin
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16:41<Elukka>driver san fransisco has been distracting me from spritin'
16:52<Kogut>@Rubidium - so now I should move folder with openttd src inside mingw folder?
16:53<Rubidium>Kogut: no, you can just start the shell from mingw and "browse" to the right directory
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16:55<Kogut>@Rubidium I am unable to go higher than C:\Users\Kogut\MinGW
16:56<Rubidium>cd /c/
16:57<andythenorth>good night
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17:02<@Terkhen>Kogut: follow
17:02<@Terkhen>good night from here too
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17:13<supermop>ok Grf is done!
17:16<supermop>who wants to try it ut?
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17:20<@planetmaker>good night :-)
17:22<Kogut>good night
17:24<supermop>new version of my MLSS
17:24<supermop>writing the forum post now
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17:35<Kogut>#include FT_ERRORS_H
17:35<Kogut>5>C:\openttd_folder_kompilacyjny\OpenTTD essentials\shared\include\freetype/freetype.h(34) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'freetype/fterrors.h': No such file or directory
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17:43<Elukka>well, this took me longer than it had any right to...
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>the | view looks like the roof is quite round, which the other views don't really reflect
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>so make it rather look completely flat there
17:45<Elukka>hmm i did the same thing there i did with the compartment coaches.. it's a bit round but not much
17:46<Elukka>it looks kinda odd completely flat in that view, though it's an easy change
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>maybe make that pixel some colour inbetween the brown and the grey
17:48<Elukka>it'll still be equally round on the magic blue side
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17:50<Eddi|zuHause>it's less noticeable there, because the braker's cabin is not "merging" with the roof there
17:50<Kogut>fun, fun, fun! I compiled OpenTTD (according to Visual C++) but there is no exe
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>Kogut: have you looked in objs directory?
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17:51<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: if in doubt about the length of a wagon, check the tracking table
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: and if you don't agree with the value given there, check back with me and we discuss a solution
17:51<Kogut>I checked it with *.exe search
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17:55<Elukka>well, it agrees with my length
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: also, might you be willing to draw another version with open doors?
17:56<Elukka>sure, not sure how it should look though
17:56<Elukka>i guess i'll go stare at dbset
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>i need something visually changing to devise a scheme how to do loading stages and loaded stages
17:57<Elukka>any idea which way the door's supposed to open?
17:57<Elukka>oh towards the back i think
17:58<Elukka>brakeman's cab i mean
17:58<Elukka>hm and towards the other end on the other side
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>question is if the other side opens to the same direction
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>so always to the right
18:04<Elukka>why am i getting the feeling oberhümer is going to say it's too textured :P
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18:09<Kogut>I compiled it again, now compiler decided to do sth with ai_foo.cpp files, and compiled this stupid .exe file. Now I have "no available language packs"
18:09<Eddi|zuHause>you need to compile the complete solution, not only one subproject
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18:11<Kogut>1>------ Build started: Project: version, Configuration: Debug Win32 ------ 2>------ Build started: Project: langs, Configuration: Debug Win32 ------ 1>Determining version number 2>Generating strings.h 1>Host skryptów systemu Windows firmy Microsoft (R) wersja 5.8 1>Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation 1996-2001. Wszelkie prawa zastrzeżone. 2>Build log was sav
18:11<Kogut>"Build started: Project: langs, Configuration: Debug Win32" <--
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds right
18:12<Kogut>maybe I should move generated exe?
18:13<Prof_Frink>"Debug Win32"? Wouldn't that take a while?
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18:15<Kogut>langs folder is almost empty (except buildLog and tables subfolder)...
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18:18<+glx><Prof_Frink> "Debug Win32"? Wouldn't that take a while? <-- no debug is way faster than release
18:18<+glx>Kogut: just press F5 once it is compiled
18:19<MNIM>I think the guy is thinking the compiler debugs win32 itself, lol
18:19<+glx>else you need to move generated exe for objs\Win32\... to bin
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18:25<Eddi|zuHause>i think the 5lu template could use some position adjustment
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: closed wagon graphics are now in
18:25<Kogut>@glx - thanks
18:25<Kogut>Nice rivers
18:25<Kogut>but it is even more visible that government in is stupid as real government
18:25<Kogut>in openttd*
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18:30<Elukka>eddi, that was fast
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: as long as it's only one image, it's actually really simple
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: just make an entry in the graphics column of the tracking table, and add the file
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18:32<Eddi|zuHause>the joy of meta-programming. only the very first instance is actually complicated, adding more later is really trivial (if done right)
18:33<Kogut>well, I compiled openttd, but my change to noai api changed absolutely nothing :D
18:34<Kogut>is correct?
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>"Iran gives Belarus 300 Million €" ... and that is news worthy, in times where greece gets like 300 billion €?
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18:35<Elukka>perhaps it'd be better if the 4 axle coaches were all one type in game (and it randomly picked a sprite), and 3 and 2 axle coaches would be used for the other types?
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: yes, that is only temporary
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18:36<Elukka>guess i better draw the other ones :P
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>the plan is to have the 3 axle wagons early, and the 4 axle wagons later, basically replacing the 3 axle ones
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>the D-Zug wagon must get different sprites altogether
18:37<Elukka>in game it looks like the wrong wagon's sprite sometimes overlays the next wagon, or is that just because i don't have that one patch
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>that leaves 2 versions of the 4-axle wagon, one with 70km/h and one with 100km/h (possibly with different running costs)
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: yeah, drawing is occasionally wrong, not entirely sure why that is, or whether there is a way around this
18:39<Elukka>it looks like the other wagon should go on top
18:39<Elukka>dunno if there's anything you can do about it though
18:40<Elukka>it's less noticeable in motion
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>partially the problem is that the wagon gets longer in - view
18:41<Eddi|zuHause>it would be less noticeable if it behaved euclidean
18:41<Elukka>hm. if the length of the coaches is alright, i'll go finish up the mail wagon
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>a 10lu mail wagon?
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>or a shorter one?
18:42<Eddi|zuHause>the value in the tracking table is not a realistic one yet
18:42<Elukka>well it looked like it used the same chassis as the 4 axle coaches
18:42<Elukka>haven't really done much work on it yet
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18:45<Elukka>that sort of thing
18:47<Kogut>Interesting "tower" on the left side
18:47<Kogut>what is this?
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>that is the braker's cabin
18:48<Kogut>but why it is elevated?
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>before brakes could be controlled from the engine, each wagon needed a person operating the brakes
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>the braker must have some overview, so the cabin is usually elevated
18:50<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. to see the engine
18:51<Elukka>another one
18:51<Elukka>"Working in brakeman's cabins was dangerous, especially in winter because the cabins were unheated and draughty and there was little room to move around and keep warm. As a result brakemen frequently froze, sometimes even to death, placing the entire train at risk due to lack of braking power."
18:51<Elukka>the worst job
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>later a closed air pressure line was introduced, first to passenger trains, later to cargo trains. so by changing the pressure in the line, the engine can operate all brakes simultaneously
18:52<Pinkbeast>Um... vacuum brakes?
18:52<Kogut>interesting... thanks!
18:52<Pinkbeast>In a lot of places, air brakes are much later.
18:53<Elukka>yeah, like... 70's
18:54<Elukka>but you brits tended to have separate brake vans
18:54<Elukka>rather than a cab on each wagon
18:54<Pinkbeast>On goods trains, yes.
18:54<Pinkbeast>But what I'm saying is that we (like most places) went brakemen -> vacuum brakes -> air brakes because it's a lot easier to make vacuum with a steam locomotive than it is compressed air.
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>cargo trains tend to have less braking power
18:56<Pinkbeast>When's the vehicle in that picture from?
18:56<Elukka>around the turn of the 20th century i think
18:57<Pinkbeast>Huh. We mandated automatic brakes on pax trains in 1889, but I guess that was first.
18:59<Elukka>Eddi|zuHause: did they retrofit those coaches with continuous brakes when the brakeman's cabs started to disappear?
---Logclosed Mon Oct 03 19:05:09 2011
---Logopened Mon Oct 03 19:05:17 2011
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19:29<Elukka>Eddi|zuHause: the 4 axle mail car is the same length as the passenger coaches, right?
19:30<Eddi|zuHause>i have no information about that
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19:30<Elukka>well, i suppose they would be
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---Logclosed Tue Oct 04 00:00:09 2011