| --- | Log | opened Thu Oct 13 00:00:36 2011 |
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| 01:51 | <@Terkhen> | good morning |
| 01:53 | <Lachie> | hey guys, I'm encountering an error with a GRF file I'm coding that I've never seen before |
| 01:54 | <@planetmaker> | moin |
| 01:54 | <Lachie> | "read past end of pseudo-sprite" |
| 01:54 | <@planetmaker> | it's an nfo syntax error or an nml bug |
| 01:55 | <@planetmaker> | i.e. one sprite should for syntactical reasons be longer than it is |
| 01:55 | <Lachie> | I figured as much. Have the specifications changed? I had no issue running it the last time I worked on it (would have been over a year ago, mind you) |
| 01:55 | <@planetmaker> | No, they didn't change. But OpenTTD might complain more verbosely about incorrect NewGRFs |
| 01:56 | <Lachie> | hmm. I would have thought renum would pick up this sort of things |
| 01:56 | <@planetmaker> | one would think so, yes |
| 01:57 | <Lachie> | cheers anyway. Is there any way to get it to be more specific about the error? back in the day TTDP would give you a sprite number and a bit more info |
| 01:57 | <@planetmaker> | -d grf=X where X could go up from 1 ... 9. I'd start with 1 |
| 01:57 | <@planetmaker> | openttd -d grf=1 |
| 01:57 | <Lachie> | alright, I'll give it a try |
| 01:58 | <@planetmaker> | indeed I wonder why it doesn't give the sprite number right away. |
| 01:59 | <@planetmaker> | which renum do you use, Lachie? Make sure you use a 5.x |
| 02:01 | <Lachie> | oh wow. I'm wildly out of date. Will get to on to that promptly. |
| 02:03 | <@planetmaker> | get it from http://www.openttd.org/download-grfcodec |
| 02:03 | <@planetmaker> | (nforenum and grfcodec are now one package) |
| 02:03 | <@planetmaker> | but still two programmes |
| 02:03 | <@planetmaker> | thus usage didn't change |
| 02:06 | <Lachie> | hum |
| 02:06 | <Lachie> | new version hasn't changed anything. The debug window doesn't give any extra information |
| 02:08 | <Lachie> | though interestingly enough it has loaded a single engine from the grf. |
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| 02:11 | <appe> | morning |
| 02:12 | <Lachie> | okay, excellent, seems to have pointed me in the direction of what I need to know |
| 02:17 | <@planetmaker> | good :-) |
| 02:18 | <@planetmaker> | often it's a property used with an invalid length |
| 02:18 | <@planetmaker> | and moin appe |
| 02:20 | <Lachie> | yeah indeed, and it's been so long since I've written NFO that I've almost forgotten how to read it! But found the bugger. |
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| 02:28 | * | planetmaker nowadays recommends writing NewGRFs in NML ;-) |
| 02:35 | <Lachie> | planetmaker: given my repeated failings at writing any sort of coding language other than NFO, I somehow doubt it would work. |
| 02:36 | <Lachie> | would also prefer not to rewrite 2000 lines of NFO in NML xD |
| 02:37 | <@planetmaker> | can only make it simpler ;-) |
| 02:38 | <Lachie> | is it possible to convert between them yet? Last time I checked it couldn't be done |
| 02:38 | * | planetmaker has done so with 20000 lines :-P |
| 02:38 | <@planetmaker> | this time it can't be done automatically either. |
| 02:39 | <Lachie> | planetmaker: it's taken me 7 years to write these 2000 lines, mind you :P |
| 02:40 | <@planetmaker> | see. That's why ;-) |
| 02:40 | <@Terkhen> | rewriting is usually not an option, unless the conversion script works for you and you are willing to fix the resulting code |
| 02:41 | <@planetmaker> | sadly yes |
| 02:43 | <@planetmaker> | though I'd probably do that for any NewGRF where I want to do more than a few small bug fixes |
| 02:43 | <@planetmaker> | already adding the parameters to TTRS kinda was quite annoying |
| 02:44 | <@planetmaker> | *parameter gui |
| 02:44 | <@Terkhen> | but that's because we are willing to fix the resulting code :P |
| 02:44 | <@Terkhen> | it is a lot of work |
| 02:44 | <@planetmaker> | yes, it is |
| 02:45 | <@planetmaker> | though we managed to convert opengfx from nfo to nml in less than two weeks ;-) |
| 02:46 | <@planetmaker> | but that's mostly easy nfo |
| 02:46 | <@planetmaker> | or was |
| 02:46 | <@Terkhen> | :P |
| 02:46 | <Lachie> | still a huge file regardless, I can respect that |
| 02:47 | <@planetmaker> | I consider the last two weeks an investment into the future :-) |
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| 03:43 | <DDR_> | What's the difference between nfo and nml? Is there some page I can read about it? |
| 03:44 | <@planetmaker> | "what's the difference between assembler and C?" is the same type of question. Read http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial |
| 03:44 | <dihedral> | good morning |
| 03:44 | <@planetmaker> | hi dihedral |
| 03:45 | * | planetmaker must always resist the urge to write "Heidi" instead ;-) |
| 03:46 | <@planetmaker> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi |
| 03:49 | <dihedral> | pffft |
| 03:49 | <DDR_> | Great book, that. ^_^ |
| 03:50 | <dihedral> | why germans want to pronounce the nick like the german word 'die' i do not know |
| 03:50 | <dihedral> | in my ears it sounds more like a german pronounced 'dai' |
| 03:50 | <@planetmaker> | I know :-) |
| 03:51 | <dihedral> | so not fair ^^ |
| 03:51 | <@planetmaker> | but that doesn't stop me 'hearing' "Heidi" I write "Hi dih..." |
| 03:51 | <dihedral> | it was terrible being in a german css clan once with that nick - i hated being on teamspeak :-D |
| 03:51 | <dihedral> | :-D |
| 03:51 | <@planetmaker> | see ;-) |
| 03:52 | <dihedral> | lol |
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| 03:52 | <@planetmaker> | I would pronounce it (in de pronounciation) as "daihidrael" but as "die" |
| 03:53 | <norbert79> | Morning all |
| 03:53 | <norbert79> | Teamspeak... Bah.. Mumble for the win :) |
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| 03:55 | <DDR_> | Dear lord.. |
| 04:00 | <norbert79> | <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heidi -> this reminds me always on the Bullyparade and on the "Heidi" scenes... :) |
| 04:01 | <norbert79> | "Großvater, Großvater" "Ja, Heidi?" :) |
| 04:01 | <@planetmaker> | hehe |
| 04:02 | <norbert79> | I wonder how dihedral would look with hair locks :) (Hope it's the right word) |
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| 04:12 | <DDR_> | Maybe 'dreadlocks'? http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=dreadlock |
| 04:12 | <Ammler> | dihedral: change your nick to dehidral :-) |
| 04:13 | <dihedral> | urgs |
| 04:13 | <dihedral> | dieder :-P |
| 04:13 | <dihedral> | yuck |
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| 04:15 | <norbert79> | DDR_: Nah, Heidi would have looked silly as being a rasta... :D |
| 04:16 | <dihedral> | dread locks ;-) |
| 04:16 | <dihedral> | similar to dead lock |
| 04:18 | <DDR_> | Heh. |
| 04:18 | <z-MaTRiX> | [100907] celltech I will admit I'm running a 2.7ghz with only 512mb ram |
| 04:18 | <z-MaTRiX> | [100915] celltech I'm too lazy and cheap to upgrade |
| 04:20 | <norbert79> | Hmm, PS3 also has only 512 MB of RAM |
| 04:20 | <norbert79> | so considering this... |
| 04:20 | <norbert79> | :) |
| 04:20 | <z-MaTRiX> | ;> |
| 04:21 | <z-MaTRiX> | i had 5112mb on w98 and xp, but thee vectorgraphic performance wasnt too cool |
| 04:21 | <z-MaTRiX> | *512 |
| 04:21 | <dihedral> | :-D |
| 04:21 | <norbert79> | 5112 MB and Windows 98... Niccce :) |
| 04:21 | <z-MaTRiX> | it was more usable with 768MB and kindof ok with 1GB |
| 04:21 | <z-MaTRiX> | its only my keyboard repeat rate ;/ |
| 04:22 | <z-MaTRiX> | pushes key in after an instant |
| 04:22 | <norbert79> | I used or still use a GB big HDD in my 486. Plain Bios can't see in full, DOS neither, yet Linux can. Has 40MB of RAM, have to cut off 8, when starting Simcity 2000 :D |
| 04:22 | <norbert79> | 8 GB |
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| 04:22 | <norbert79> | (486 can handle HDD up to 4 GB or 6, can't recall) |
| 04:24 | <z-MaTRiX> | ;/ |
| 04:24 | <z-MaTRiX> | i only remember the 32GB bios bug |
| 04:24 | <norbert79> | Well, 486's couldn't handle big HDD using DOS or Windows 98 |
| 04:24 | <norbert79> | but thje funny thing: Linux can use all the sapce |
| 04:24 | <norbert79> | space |
| 04:25 | <z-MaTRiX> | well i had a pentium II cpu with 40GB hdd |
| 04:25 | <z-MaTRiX> | and a 486 is 32 bit also |
| 04:25 | <z-MaTRiX> | with FPU |
| 04:25 | <norbert79> | sure, mine was AMD 5x86-133 Mhz |
| 04:25 | <norbert79> | is |
| 04:25 | <norbert79> | cause I still have it |
| 04:26 | <z-MaTRiX> | so the 486 board has a 8GB bug in hdd controller? |
| 04:26 | <norbert79> | probably |
| 04:26 | <norbert79> | I see also remarks when booting Slackware kernel telling, that BIOS cannot see HDD in full, working around of it |
| 04:26 | <z-MaTRiX> | i believe the motherboard has the limit on memory too |
| 04:26 | <norbert79> | sure, 64 MB |
| 04:26 | <z-MaTRiX> | you cant put in 1GB edo modules ... |
| 04:26 | <z-MaTRiX> | <; |
| 04:27 | <norbert79> | no, not really possible :)) |
| 04:27 | <norbert79> | besides mine aren't EDO :) |
| 04:27 | <norbert79> | don't ask me what type, but sure not EDO |
| 04:27 | <PeanutHorst> | mine could theoretically take 160MB |
| 04:27 | <norbert79> | cause I tried them |
| 04:27 | <PeanutHorst> | unless they've made 256MB 72-pin modules by now |
| 04:27 | <z-MaTRiX> | SD ram ? |
| 04:27 | <PeanutHorst> | norbert79: probably FPM |
| 04:27 | <z-MaTRiX> | sd in 486 sounds new |
| 04:27 | <norbert79> | PeanutHorst: Probably.. |
| 04:28 | <norbert79> | PeanutHorst: But I have 2 16MB big modules, and my old two 4 MB |
| 04:28 | <norbert79> | inside |
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| 04:28 | <norbert79> | And AWE 64... Heh, haters gonna hate :) |
| 04:29 | <z-MaTRiX> | soon i'll upgrade my system too |
| 04:29 | <z-MaTRiX> | phenom 2 x2 or x4, 4GB+ ddr3 @ 1333MHz |
| 04:29 | <z-MaTRiX> | i'll set /tmp on ramfs |
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| 04:30 | <z-MaTRiX> | and i wontneed any swap :) |
| 04:30 | <@peter1138> | ... |
| 04:30 | <norbert79> | SWAP is always necessary, unfortunetally |
| 04:31 | <norbert79> | and in Linux without swap you cannot hibernate |
| 04:31 | <z-MaTRiX> | dont tellme i need swap with 8GB ram |
| 04:31 | <norbert79> | z-MaTRiX: Depends what you are running |
| 04:31 | <z-MaTRiX> | never used more than 2GB |
| 04:31 | <norbert79> | I would still make some measurements first |
| 04:31 | <@peter1138> | i need swap with 4GB RAM |
| 04:32 | <z-MaTRiX> | ;/ |
| 04:32 | <norbert79> | and /tmp on RAMFS is also kind of risky |
| 04:32 | <@peter1138> | not needed it with 6GB |
| 04:32 | <@peter1138> | though it's still there |
| 04:32 | <norbert79> | and in Linux you would need at LEAST the size of your RAM for setting as SWAP |
| 04:32 | <@peter1138> | why is it risky? |
| 04:32 | <@peter1138> | /tmp tmpfs is going to be default at some point |
| 04:33 | <norbert79> | peter1138: Some spcific files are stored in /tmp, in case for RAM error it could affect the functionality or working of important running applications |
| 04:33 | <norbert79> | sure, but not /tmp in ramfs |
| 04:33 | <z-MaTRiX> | well yes, tmpfs writes to swap if ram is getting full |
| 04:33 | <z-MaTRiX> | ramfs wont |
| 04:33 | <norbert79> | I would still store temporary files into temporary hard-disk space |
| 04:33 | <@peter1138> | hm |
| 04:34 | <norbert79> | yet of course I always think in server-like situations... |
| 04:34 | <z-MaTRiX> | norbert79<< i have seen guys putting /tmp on encrypted volume with random password on boot |
| 04:34 | <norbert79> | Mine is full encrypted using LVM :) |
| 04:34 | <z-MaTRiX> | also they used to delete everything on it at boot |
| 04:34 | <norbert79> | sure, every distro does that, unless application defines otherwise |
| 04:34 | <norbert79> | I use some which actively use /tmp |
| 04:34 | <z-MaTRiX> | though redhat plas lol with it |
| 04:35 | <z-MaTRiX> | plays |
| 04:35 | <norbert79> | lot |
| 04:35 | <z-MaTRiX> | lets system store rootkits in /tmp |
| 04:35 | <norbert79> | if a rootkit gets to your system, it won't get bothered by /tmp :) |
| 04:35 | <norbert79> | it will just screw yours up bad |
| 04:36 | <@peter1138> | hmm, run /tmp is on tmpfs for ages |
| 04:36 | <norbert79> | Talking about UNIX, Dennis M Ritchie passed away :( |
| 04:36 | <@peter1138> | it's /var/run etc that's moving to tmpfs too |
| 04:37 | <z-MaTRiX> | would be nice if they make default "noatime" everywhere |
| 04:37 | <norbert79> | peter1138: Yeah, I am very 'happy' about that... Damn stupid, that will break tons of different distros when distupgrading... Or if it doesn't, it will sure cause some headaches. I already made a ~run on my / |
| 04:37 | <z-MaTRiX> | itsa lol |
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| 04:38 | <norbert79> | Yet it sure serves more purpose than when having 'cdrom' in root... That wasn't funny either |
| 04:38 | <norbert79> | and still isn't |
| 04:39 | <@peter1138> | yeah, that's... why? |
| 04:39 | <@peter1138> | and initrd/vmlinuz, for that matter |
| 04:39 | <@peter1138> | nobody uses those any more |
| 04:39 | <norbert79> | I still prefer it |
| 04:40 | <norbert79> | Never liked monolitic kernels |
| 04:40 | <z-MaTRiX> | btw im considering to install a linux from scratch |
| 04:40 | <norbert79> | z-MaTRiX: You don't have any girlfriend... And if you start with it, you will never have |
| 04:40 | <@peter1138> | eh? what does monolithic kernels have to do with it? |
| 04:40 | <z-MaTRiX> | ahaha |
| 04:40 | <norbert79> | it will take THAT ammount of time from your life :) |
| 04:41 | <z-MaTRiX> | i write a bashscript for it |
| 04:41 | <norbert79> | peter1138: How would you access an encrypted drive without initrd? |
| 04:41 | <norbert79> | z-MaTRiX: Even worse then :D |
| 04:41 | <@peter1138> | norbert79, no reason for it to be in / |
| 04:41 | <@peter1138> | in /boot, yes... |
| 04:41 | <norbert79> | peter1138: Oh, that |
| 04:42 | <@peter1138> | and they are in /boot |
| 04:42 | <norbert79> | peter1138: Well, yes, but because of old UNIX compatibility |
| 04:42 | <norbert79> | peter1138: and if you have no boot because it's not needed, having them in / is much easier |
| 04:42 | <norbert79> | BSD's still use / for that |
| 04:42 | <norbert79> | at least OpenBSD 3.4 did |
| 04:42 | <z-MaTRiX> | clear;e=eval\ ;p=printf\ ;x="$e$p\$";u=USER;n=NAME;r=$(stty -g);stty raw -echo;read -sn1 -p \[$($x$u)@$(${x}HOST$n):~\]$\ ;a="The Matrix has you now $(grep $($x$u$n) /etc/passwd |awk -F: '{print $5}')...";while [ "$a" ];do $p\%c "$a";a=${a:1};sleep .$(($RANDOM*20));done;stty "$r";$p\\n |
| 04:42 | <z-MaTRiX> | :) |
| 04:43 | <norbert79> | it lists your /etc/passwd... so? |
| 04:43 | <norbert79> | like passwords would be still there :) |
| 04:43 | <z-MaTRiX> | not exactly |
| 04:44 | <norbert79> | well, it modifies a bit too, but decent systems do backups of /etc/passwd ;-) |
| 04:44 | <z-MaTRiX> | still cold |
| 04:44 | <norbert79> | not in a mood for analysis, just tell |
| 04:44 | <norbert79> | haven't eaten yet anything today |
| 04:44 | <z-MaTRiX> | yeah sounds familiar |
| 04:45 | <z-MaTRiX> | will go in a few mins too |
| 04:45 | <z-MaTRiX> | well you can run it to test, its a bashscript |
| 04:45 | <norbert79> | yeah, right... lol |
| 04:45 | <norbert79> | not in a mood for chroot-ing it |
| 04:45 | <norbert79> | so don't test me, just tell :) |
| 04:46 | <norbert79> | (btw it was obvious of BASH... KSH uses partly some points different) |
| 04:46 | <z-MaTRiX> | that'd not make it cool anymore |
| 04:46 | <norbert79> | alright then don't... I am off eating |
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| 04:46 | <z-MaTRiX> | btw |
| 04:47 | <z-MaTRiX> | clear;e=eval\ ;p=printf\ ;x="$e$p\$";u=USER;n=NAME;r=$(stty -g);stty raw -echo;read -sn1 -p \[$($x$u)@$(${x}HOST$n):~\]$\ ;while read -n1 a;do $p \\$($p '%03o' $(($($p'%d' "'"$($p'%c' "$a")"")-1)));sleep .$(($RANDOM*2));done< <($p\%q 'Uif!Nbusjy!ibt!zpv!'"$($p'%s' "$(grep $($x$u$n) /etc/passwd |awk -F: '{print $5}')" | while read -n1 y;do $p'%c' "$($p\\$($p'%03o' $(($($p'%d' "'$($p'%c' "$y")")+1))))"; |
| 04:47 | <z-MaTRiX> | done;)"'///');stty "$r";$p\\n |
| 04:47 | <z-MaTRiX> | here it is more obscured |
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| 04:53 | <Elukka> | today i learned that there is an entire line of HO scale couples in the act of boinking |
| 04:54 | <Elukka> | an interesting detail for a layout, i suppose |
| 04:55 | <Korenn> | Elukka: time to model up a brothel? :P |
| 04:55 | <Elukka> | well there's enough different ones to make it work |
| 04:58 | <PeanutHorst> | ... |
| 04:59 | <PeanutHorst> | yeah this is why I'm not into scale modelling. |
| 04:59 | <Elukka> | sexy, sexy scale modelling |
| 04:59 | <PeanutHorst> | ... you're not helping your case. |
| 05:00 | <Elukka> | okay, how about simply awesome modelling? |
| 05:00 | <Elukka> | http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l327/pabrs/modelrailroad%202011/modelbaan-2011-06-25-50d-20225-int.jpg |
| 05:00 | <Elukka> | (not mine) |
| 05:02 | <Korenn> | I used to be impressed with model railroad builders, until I met warhammer players. those guys are nuts :P |
| 05:03 | <Elukka> | i've done some warhammer |
| 05:03 | <Elukka> | i contend there are more insane model railroaders |
| 05:03 | <Korenn> | I did too. until I found out that I couldn't be arsed with all the detail for single figures |
| 05:04 | <Elukka> | http://www.turkishmodeltrains.com/selcuk/selcuk9pi.jpg |
| 05:04 | <Korenn> | possibly, never met them |
| 05:04 | <norbert79> | Elukka: The Konditorei looks lovely |
| 05:04 | <Elukka> | i wish i had the skill |
| 05:04 | <norbert79> | Elukka: Wow to the second one too |
| 05:04 | <norbert79> | It takes patience |
| 05:04 | <Elukka> | HO figures are a lot smaller than warhammer figures too :P |
| 05:04 | <norbert79> | use to do maquettes |
| 05:04 | <@peter1138> | that last one almost doesn't look like a model |
| 05:05 | <norbert79> | peter1138: Agree |
| 05:05 | <@peter1138> | the figures are obvious |
| 05:05 | <@peter1138> | and the shadows are too crisp |
| 05:05 | <norbert79> | peter1138: But it is a model |
| 05:05 | <@peter1138> | norbert79, exactly... |
| 05:05 | <norbert79> | Thats the amazing part :) |
| 05:05 | <@peter1138> | tbh |
| 05:05 | <Elukka> | my extent of scratchbuilding so far... http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/Railway/brickwall.jpg kinda messy but i think it'll do for an old worn down building |
| 05:06 | <@peter1138> | i looked at the second one first |
| 05:06 | <@peter1138> | it wasn't until i looked at the first one that i realised :p |
| 05:06 | <norbert79> | Elukka: Now that's a challenge |
| 05:07 | <Korenn> | that's pretty cool. But personally I rather put my creativity into making digital stuff - that way it can be used more than just once :) |
| 05:07 | <Elukka> | i do digital too :P |
| 05:07 | <norbert79> | Korenn: If you do real stuff and then digital or the opposite, the one helps always the other |
| 05:07 | <Korenn> | nowadays you could model that wall in digital and have it 3d printed |
| 05:07 | <norbert79> | Korenn: Since it's the tool different, not the topic |
| 05:08 | <Elukka> | 3D printing has issues |
| 05:08 | <Elukka> | i've yet to see any affordable 3D printing service that has good enough quality |
| 05:08 | <Elukka> | plus even then it's expensive |
| 05:08 | <Korenn> | norbert79: sure, but the results aren't usable in the same way. if I model a wall like that in Blender it will take about the same amount of time, but I can spawn the wall in my games thousands of times, and use it in lots of projects. |
| 05:08 | <norbert79> | I have seen one recording, which provides good 3d quality, but it sure is expensive |
| 05:08 | <Elukka> | yes but your wall doesn't actually exist in the physical world :P |
| 05:09 | <Korenn> | while as a physical thing you only have the one |
| 05:09 | <Korenn> | Elukka: unless you have it printed :) |
| 05:09 | <norbert79> | Korenn: Sure, but achiving the same effect, like a busted wall is being done the same way, or can be done |
| 05:09 | <Korenn> | though ofcourse |
| 05:09 | <Korenn> | if you're talking 3d printer, one should also include 3d scanner |
| 05:09 | <Korenn> | which would allow the reverse |
| 05:09 | <Korenn> | but is a bit broken still, in practice |
| 05:09 | <Elukka> | i'd love to just 3D model stuff and have it printed |
| 05:10 | <Elukka> | the technology isn't quite there yet, though |
| 05:10 | <norbert79> | not true |
| 05:10 | <Elukka> | http://www.pienoismallit.net/media/kuvat/07/15/29/071529.jpg |
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| 05:10 | <Elukka> | when a print looks like that... |
| 05:10 | <Korenn> | Elukka: we use http://www.shapeways.com/ |
| 05:10 | <norbert79> | I have seen one company doing 3d printing on a business level |
| 05:10 | <Elukka> | yeah i know shapeways |
| 05:10 | <Korenn> | they do metal too |
| 05:10 | <Elukka> | of course if you're enough of a madman you can still make http://www.pienoismallit.net/media/kuvat/08/53/51/085351.jpg out of that |
| 05:10 | <Korenn> | and with a little bit of filing, it looks really awesome |
| 05:10 | <Elukka> | yeah they do and its humongously expensive |
| 05:11 | <norbert79> | or you take the time and make it on your own using real materials :) |
| 05:11 | <norbert79> | like good ol' times |
| 05:11 | <norbert79> | buying steel, forming it... |
| 05:12 | <Elukka> | i considered using shapeways but didn't figure any real use for it |
| 05:12 | <Elukka> | modeling wise |
| 05:12 | <norbert79> | Elukka: One example, if you are a Sci-Fi fan you can get easily different accessories through them |
| 05:12 | <norbert79> | Elukka: Like a communicator in Star Trek |
| 05:12 | <Elukka> | i also considered printing some of my 3D spaceships for fun :P |
| 05:13 | <Elukka> | but too expensive, not good enough looking |
| 05:13 | <norbert79> | why not printing it part by part? |
| 05:13 | <norbert79> | and then assemble it |
| 05:13 | <norbert79> | :) |
| 05:13 | <Elukka> | it's still not gonna be any cheaper or look any better |
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| 05:13 | <norbert79> | well, not sure on the look side |
| 05:13 | <norbert79> | but sure on the expensive part |
| 05:15 | <Elukka> | they charge by volume of material used |
| 05:15 | <Elukka> | doesn't matter how complex the model is |
| 05:16 | <Elukka> | kinda curious now how much wall sections and stuff like that would cost though |
| 05:16 | <Elukka> | and if there's some way to smooth out the grain |
| 05:17 | <norbert79> | 3D printing is nice when building maquettes |
| 05:17 | <norbert79> | easier regaining lost parts |
| 05:17 | <norbert79> | where in the past you had to buy the whole box to get what was missing |
| 05:18 | <norbert79> | and creating the parts wasn't cheap either |
| 05:18 | <norbert79> | or take Lego |
| 05:18 | <norbert79> | well, maybe Lego is not a good example |
| 05:18 | <norbert79> | but you get the idea |
| 05:20 | <Elukka> | huh. shapeways has improved since last i looked |
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| 07:08 | <norbert79> | this is a quiet day |
| 07:21 | <Eddi|zuHause> | actually, this is one of the most active mornings das in the past year or so |
| 07:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | -das |
| 07:32 | <@planetmaker> | the bricks on the model are all wrong: they'd usually be shifted 25 ... 50% against the ones in the next row |
| 07:32 | <@planetmaker> | and... this referred to a very old comment in this channel... |
| 07:32 | <@planetmaker> | note to self: scroll down |
| 07:32 | <@peter1138> | heh |
| 07:34 | <Elukka> | yeah, it's just doing that would add several hours to it |
| 07:34 | <Elukka> | assuming you mean the thing i did |
| 07:34 | <@planetmaker> | yes, I do |
| 07:34 | <Elukka> | it'd just take too long |
| 07:35 | <@peter1138> | but look better |
| 07:35 | <@peter1138> | unless you want it to look like tiles |
| 07:35 | <Elukka> | it already takes bloody hours |
| 07:35 | <@planetmaker> | it'd look a lot better |
| 07:35 | <Elukka> | now imagine carving every single less than 1 mm tall brick |
| 07:35 | <Elukka> | separately |
| 07:35 | <Elukka> | thousands of them |
| 07:36 | <Elukka> | i'm sure better methods exist, i just don't know of them |
| 07:38 | <@planetmaker> | Elukka: don't carve each. But carve horizontal lines and then add vertical ones |
| 07:38 | <Elukka> | every vertical line separately if the bricks are to be displaced |
| 07:38 | <@planetmaker> | ? |
| 07:39 | <@planetmaker> | but yes, you'd carve a bit. but... hours? |
| 07:39 | <Elukka> | it sure would take a while |
| 07:39 | <norbert79> | Worth knowing how it would look |
| 07:40 | <Elukka> | it really would need another method of doing it |
| 07:41 | <Elukka> | i count that one wall would require approximately 1600 individual vertical lines |
| 07:41 | <Elukka> | vs. 40 or so for the 'tile-like' bricks |
| 07:43 | <@planetmaker> | well. carving dashed lines is not that bad as carving completely independent ones |
| 07:43 | <Elukka> | seems very difficult to carve them accurately enough as a dashed line |
| 07:44 | <Elukka> | remember, the tiles are like 2.5 mm wide, 1 mm high |
| 07:44 | <@planetmaker> | then create a wire-mesh which you imprint on it |
| 07:45 | <Elukka> | hmm |
| 07:46 | <Elukka> | i'm looking into premade products at the moment |
| 07:47 | <Elukka> | i really need a better wall material too |
| 07:47 | <Elukka> | what i've been using is a kind of a... hard cardboard? kind of thing |
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| 07:52 | <Elukka> | http://www.pienoismallit.net/media/kuvat/07/89/29/078929.jpg |
| 07:53 | <Elukka> | the best looking self made model brick building i've ever seen |
| 07:53 | <@peter1138> | impressive |
| 07:54 | <@planetmaker> | quite |
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| 07:55 | <Elukka> | it only takes a few decades' experience and a lot of esoteric tools and substances :P |
| 07:55 | <norbert79> | Elukka: is that your work? |
| 07:55 | <Elukka> | no :D |
| 07:55 | <norbert79> | Damn looks sexy |
| 07:56 | <norbert79> | best work so far I have ever seen |
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| 08:08 | <Elukka> | http://i.imgur.com/wmkyS.jpg |
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| 08:33 | <@peter1138> | ALL THE LADIES |
| 08:33 | <norbert79> | GET INTO THE KITCHEN! |
| 08:33 | -!- | norbert79 was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [norbert79] |
| 08:34 | -!- | norbert79 [~Norbi@deibp9eh1--blueice4n2.emea.ibm.com] has joined #openttd |
| 08:34 | <norbert79> | lol? :) |
| 08:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | how about using actual bricks? :p |
| 08:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | saves you carving any lines :p |
| 08:39 | <PeanutHorst> | ALL THE SINGLE LADIES |
| 08:40 | <norbert79> | ...damn you PeanutHorst, have no good idea because of "SINGLE" |
| 08:41 | <norbert79> | without it it was easier :) |
| 08:41 | <@peter1138> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLJ5a6aJOb8 |
| 08:43 | <PeanutHorst> | norbert79: it goes "IF YOU LIKED IT THEN YOU SHOULDA PUT A RING ON IT" |
| 08:44 | <norbert79> | PeanutHorst: Life is never that easy or simple, I know that ;-) |
| 08:44 | <norbert79> | PeanutHorst: It's not like buying an iPhone ;-) |
| 08:45 | <PeanutHorst> | trust is like an iPhone screen... once you break it ... |
| 08:45 | <PeanutHorst> | it's time to buy a new iPhone, on a two-year contract :> |
| 08:45 | <norbert79> | lol |
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| 09:53 | <appe> | android. |
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| 10:13 | <norbert79> | Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god... Boardwalk Empire Season 2 is out, and I almost missed the first three episodes... |
| 10:15 | <@planetmaker> | you have sooo my pity |
| 10:15 | <norbert79> | planetmaker: Thank you, let me give you a hug... |
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| 10:30 | <dihedral> | urgs |
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| 11:50 | <@Terkhen> | hmm... I suppose it is okay to hardcode CT_PASSENGERS for passenger subsidies, since houses are "hardcoded" to produce passengers too |
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| 12:00 | <dihedral> | unless of course you start creating different types of passengers |
| 12:01 | <dihedral> | of... different ... ethnical ... backgrounds.... |
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| 12:02 | <b_jonas> | dihedral: not of different ethnical backgrounds, but of different financial backgrounds |
| 12:02 | <dihedral> | hehe |
| 12:03 | <b_jonas> | managers is a new cargo type that pays more than passengers but less of them fit to a vehicle |
| 12:03 | <b_jonas> | they travel on first class |
| 12:03 | <b_jonas> | so passengers are split to managers and tourists |
| 12:05 | <@Terkhen> | the only difference is that "passengers" subsidies are more frequent than any other |
| 12:05 | <@Terkhen> | hmm... OpenTTD does not scale the amount of subtitles to map size :O |
| 12:05 | <@Terkhen> | should it? |
| 12:07 | <@Terkhen> | err, s/subtitles/subsidies/ |
| 12:08 | <Elukka> | hmm |
| 12:08 | <@Terkhen> | now it's quite obvious what I'm planning to do when I get tired of coding |
| 12:08 | <Elukka> | is there already an option for the amount of subsidies? |
| 12:08 | <Elukka> | frequency i mean |
| 12:08 | <@Terkhen> | nope |
| 12:08 | <Elukka> | i think that may be better than scaling it to map size |
| 12:09 | <@Terkhen> | why not both? |
| 12:09 | <Elukka> | well, sure |
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| 12:10 | <b_jonas> | why not scale it by the number of industries and towns instead? |
| 12:10 | <Elukka> | well i just wouldn't want subsidies to be popping up left and right everywhere just because i'm playing a big map |
| 12:11 | <@Terkhen> | b_jonas: because that would be more complicated |
| 12:11 | <@Terkhen> | for that, IMO a manual option to tweak the amount would be better |
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| 12:12 | <b_jonas> | how about just scaling with the expected number of industries and towns, computed from the map size multiplied by the difficult options setting the number of towns/industries? |
| 12:13 | <@Terkhen> | sorry, what? |
| 12:13 | <@Terkhen> | isn't the expected number what the difficulty says? |
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| 12:14 | <b_jonas> | Terkhen: I think the expected number is that product. With the same difficulty settings, you get more industries on a larger map. |
| 12:14 | <@Terkhen> | ah, I misunderstood you |
| 12:14 | <@Terkhen> | IMO you don't need to complicate things that much |
| 12:16 | <@Terkhen> | since subsidies have low base probability anyways, you will not notice small changes |
| 12:18 | <b_jonas> | but then Elukka has a point too: more subsidies might mean more messages (though I have them hidden in the message settings) |
| 12:18 | <@Terkhen> | that could be solved with a global parameter that affects the amount regardless of size |
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| 13:48 | <Elukka> | Eddi|zuHause: did you make magic pink work or figure out a new way for wagon loads yet? |
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| 14:04 | <@Terkhen> | currently, subsidy code tries to establish a passenger subsidy by choosing two towns at random, and if that fail they choose a random cargo from a random industry |
| 14:05 | <@Terkhen> | I wonder what would be the best way to decide source and destination if we consider that towns can produce and accept anything, opposed to produce only passengers and accept only TE_FOOD and TE_GOODS cargos |
| 14:05 | <@Terkhen> | I'm thinking on letting the passenger part as it stands now (they should be more common anyways) |
| 14:06 | <@Terkhen> | after that, choose a random cargo and look for appropiate source/destination |
| 14:06 | <@Terkhen> | but I think that the random cargo idea is not a good one |
| 14:06 | <@Terkhen> | hmmm |
| 14:09 | <Pinkbeast> | Couldn't it start by picking a random unserviced industry or town? |
| 14:10 | <@Terkhen> | if you choose a random industry or town, you will end up with too much mail subsidies |
| 14:11 | <@Terkhen> | although... maybe that's not a bad thing |
| 14:11 | <Pinkbeast> | And defining an unserviced town is tricky especially in cargodist/YACD worlds. |
| 14:12 | <Pinkbeast> | However, I have one passenger here waiting to go to the pub, so I must leave it here. |
| 14:12 | <@Terkhen> | that part of the code is already taken care of |
| 14:12 | <@Terkhen> | see you |
| 14:16 | <@Alberth> | perhaps try to distribute the subsidies evenly over the map? |
| 14:17 | <@Alberth> | (by picking a 'good' towns, then deciding what cargo it has/needs?) |
| 14:17 | <@Terkhen> | hmm... it should do that, yes |
| 14:17 | <@Terkhen> | it would be nice |
| 14:17 | <@Terkhen> | but I still need a way to get a good random source |
| 14:17 | <@Terkhen> | the current code just chooses two random industries and if they are not close enough it tries again :P |
| 14:18 | <@Terkhen> | maybe I should just give a % chance of town/industry source, it's simple |
| 14:18 | <@Terkhen> | then it could pick up a source that is far enough from existing subsidy sources |
| 14:19 | <b_jonas> | why would you want to distribute them evenly on the map? |
| 14:19 | <@Alberth> | yeah, don't make it complicated sounds like a good idea |
| 14:22 | <@Terkhen> | b_jonas: sometimes I get three subsidies with the same source, that's not very useful |
| 14:22 | <@Terkhen> | hmm... or maybe it was same destination, I don't remember |
| 14:22 | <b_jonas> | same destination shouldn't be a problem |
| 14:22 | <@Terkhen> | no, but it is boring :P |
| 14:22 | <b_jonas> | same source same cargo type is not very useful, so maybe you want to check that, yes |
| 14:23 | <b_jonas> | make an interface for AI scripts to choose subsidies and leave it to the AI developers to come up with interesting or evil AIs. :-) |
| 14:24 | <@Terkhen> | that's a job for a future goal framework |
| 14:24 | <@Terkhen> | which I have no intention to code :P |
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| 14:50 | <@Alberth> | b_jonas: except players don't make subsidy offers to other players |
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| 14:59 | <b_jonas> | Alberth: sure, it would be more like a GRF thingy |
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| 15:00 | * | Alberth is pretty sure you don't want to code subsidy offers in NFO either :p |
| 15:00 | <appe> | http://rationalreality.50webs.com/godel_files/godel2.jpg |
| 15:00 | <appe> | <3 |
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| 15:25 | <andythenorth> | efening |
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| 15:26 | <supermop> | hello andy |
| 15:28 | <@Alberth> | hi andy |
| 15:29 | <Elukka> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH8joSKRPAE |
| 15:29 | <Elukka> | china 2003 |
| 15:29 | <Elukka> | pretty awesome |
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| 17:18 | <DDR_> | Hi; can anyone recommend a server with an interesting industrial chain (maybe ECS?) and some people on it? |
| 17:21 | <@Terkhen> | good night |
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| 17:47 | <Monarch1st> | hi all |
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| 17:48 | <Monarch1st> | i'm making my own scenario, but i want to delete one of the newgrf files that was inherited from the main program. how do i do that? |
| 17:50 | <Chris_Booth> | hi Monarch1st |
| 17:50 | <Chris_Booth> | you need to edit your openttd.cfg file |
| 17:50 | <Chris_Booth> | it though it not recomended to remove a GRF once it is loaded |
| 17:50 | <Chris_Booth> | as this can cause openttd to crash |
| 17:51 | <Monarch1st> | you mean i have to dump my scenario, and all the work that has gone into it, and start it over? |
| 17:52 | <Chris_Booth> | not realy I am just warning you |
| 17:52 | <Chris_Booth> | you need to change this setting in your openttd.cfg though |
| 17:52 | <Chris_Booth> | scenario_developer = true |
| 17:52 | <Chris_Booth> | yours will be set to false |
| 17:53 | <Monarch1st> | ahh, whew. |
| 17:53 | <Chris_Booth> | but if it is something like a town GRF or an industry GRF it will crash unless you remove all objects in that group |
| 17:53 | <Chris_Booth> | openttd.cfg will be in the share directory |
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| 17:53 | <Chris_Booth> | and you need to edit it with a simple text editor |
| 17:53 | <Monarch1st> | ha! bout 10 secs ahead of me |
| 17:54 | <Chris_Booth> | you will also need to close your game |
| 17:54 | <Monarch1st> | wait. it doesnt have a share directory |
| 17:54 | <Chris_Booth> | or you can type that setting into the games built in consol |
| 17:54 | <Monarch1st> | game already closed |
| 17:54 | <Chris_Booth> | Monarch1st: what OS are you using? |
| 17:55 | <Monarch1st> | win xp pro |
| 17:55 | <Chris_Booth> | then it will be in you my documents folder |
| 17:55 | <Chris_Booth> | my docs/openttd |
| 17:55 | <Chris_Booth> | and use notepad |
| 17:57 | <Monarch1st> | there we go ... |
| 17:57 | <Chris_Booth> | good good |
| 17:57 | <Chris_Booth> | now you will notice a new 'new grf' list |
| 17:58 | <Monarch1st> | woohoo! |
| 17:59 | <Monarch1st> | cool beans, deleted...now to see if it makes a difference |
| 17:59 | <Monarch1st> | thanks very much! |
| 17:59 | <Chris_Booth> | np |
| 17:59 | <Chris_Booth> | be careful though |
| 17:59 | <Chris_Booth> | and remeber to turn it off again |
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| 18:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: did you make magic pink work or figure out a new way for wagon loads yet? <-- magic pink works. now we need to devise some appropriate recolour maps for black/grey/yellow/red/... |
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| --- | Log | closed Fri Oct 14 00:00:38 2011 |
