Back to Home / #openttd / 2011 / 10 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-10-16

---Logopened Sun Oct 16 00:00:42 2011
00:25-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd
00:57-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B7269A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
01:04-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B75B4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:07-!-Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:19-!-Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd
01:25-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:28-!-Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
01:52-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-113-68.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
01:57-!-mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-110-87.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:52-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
02:52<andythenorth>ciao
03:00-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
03:13-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd
03:16<Rubidium>SpComb: the game is actually dimetric (or near isometric)
03:20<Rubidium>a flat tile is 64 pixels wide and 32 high, which means there is a 2:1 ratio between x and y -> arctan 0.5 ~= 27°
03:20<@peter1138>yeah, proper isometric isn't convenient with square pixels
03:21<Rubidium>-> 180 - 2*27 = 126 which isn't quite 120° yet
03:21<Rubidium>@calc 180 - 2*arctan(0.5)
03:21<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Error: 'arctan' is not a defined function.
03:21<Rubidium>you stupid bot
03:22-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
03:22<@peter1138>26.565°
03:25-!-Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
03:37-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has joined #openttd
03:37-!-PeanutHorst [~peanutlx@115-64-68-182.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:37<Wolf01>'morning
03:39-!-TWerkhoven [~Turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
03:42-!-PeanutHorst [~peanutlx@115-64-68-182.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
03:49-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd
03:50-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
04:00<@Terkhen>good morning
04:12-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BD0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
04:13-!-pjpe [ade6a119@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
04:14<Lachie>evening
04:30<@planetmaker>moin
04:31<@Terkhen>hi Lachie
04:31-!-Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
04:34-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
04:34-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
04:44-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
04:45-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
04:45<Lachie>what's the go Terkhen?
04:52-!-Bolt_ [~chatzilla@124-168-110-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
04:53<Bolt_>greeting all
04:53<@Alberth>hi
04:55-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
04:58<Lachie>hey dudes, how do I reverse the direction of an engine in the consist (not the first engine)? Control isn't working. Simply tells me it cant reverse the direction
04:59<Bolt_>I think I found a defect in the trunk
04:59<Bolt_>my AI cannot place signs in the trunk. it can in 1.1.3 tag
05:01-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d083773.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
05:01<Bolt_> AISign.BuildSign(AIMap.GetTileIndex(2,2),"Test Message");
05:01<Bolt_>noting happens
05:02<Korenn>Lachie: try ctrl or shift ;)
05:02<Lachie>read the line again :P
05:03<@Terkhen>Lachie: IIRC now NewGRFs have to explicitly say if they want the engines to be reversible or not
05:03<@Terkhen>it's a relatively recent change
05:04<@planetmaker>what Terkhen says ^^
05:04<@Terkhen>Lachie: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=52798
05:06-!-Bolt__ [~chatzilla@124-168-110-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd
05:06<Lachie>all these NewGRF changes... fuu
05:06<@SmatZ>Bolt_: do you have signs enabled?
05:07<@SmatZ>I think you have to enable showing of other companies' signs
05:07<Bolt__>the player can add the signs.
05:07<@planetmaker>yes, but do _you_ see them?
05:07*Bolt__ is searching for the setting
05:07<@planetmaker>there's a new transparency option
05:08<Lachie>so where does the Prop go?
05:08<@planetmaker>it was actually introduced so that AIs can happily spam debug signs but normal playing is not "harmed" by it ;-)
05:08<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Trains#Miscellaneous_flags_.2827.29 <-- Lachie
05:10<Lachie>excellent. Thank you planetmaker :)
05:10-!-Bolt_ [~chatzilla@124-168-110-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:12<Lachie>it's a little confusing catching up on all these changes
05:12<Bolt__>thanks SmatZ. I found the setting!!.
05:14<@planetmaker>mostly it's only additions, Lachie ;-)
05:14<@planetmaker>though this can be considered a change. Technically the behaviour was previously undefined or under-specified ;-)
05:21<Bolt__>I have created a patch to the game to allow the variable - _ops_till_suspend from sqvm.h available to the AI script. it is very useful for performance tuning the AI
05:23<Bolt__>how best to make this change available?
05:23<@planetmaker>forums, if you want general feedback, or our bug tracker, if you think it's "done" and can be included without (much) discussions and changes
05:24<@planetmaker>or you could start by showing us the diff here ;-)
05:25<@Terkhen>I don't know much about AI code, but IIRC they had their number of operations limited to prevent them from using all the cpu... doesn't letting them change that value defeats the point?
05:26<@planetmaker>was it about having AIs change that value? I didn't understand it that way
05:27<@Terkhen>maybe I'm the confused one :P
05:27<@planetmaker>I concur, that the AI changing that value IMHO is not a thing we want. having it read the value - why not?
05:28<@Terkhen>oh, reading should be okay, yes :)
05:28<@planetmaker>Principially possible is a patch which allows AIs to change the ticks to suspend in a controlled fashion, a small corridor
05:29<@planetmaker>which has to average out on the long run. But that might be too complicated ;-)
05:30-!-KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-123-239.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
05:30<@planetmaker>hm... I think the palette animation between ttdviewer and OpenTTD differs :S
05:31<Bolt__>the patch is to allow reading of the OpCode current state for the tick. that is all
05:32<@Terkhen>ok :)
05:32<Bolt__>changing the opCode limit within the AI would be a bad idea. but allow the reading of the current state allows for some interesting re-designed AI.
05:32-!-Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:32<@planetmaker>That's conceptually fine :-)
05:33-!-KouDy [~KouDy@ip-86-49-123-239.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit []
05:33<@Alberth>a good entry point for doing much pre-mature optimization ;)
05:33<Bolt__>the .patch file generated to TortoiseSVN is 4kb
05:33<@planetmaker>paste.openttdcoop.org
05:34<Bolt__>indeed. but also understanding how the squirrel code works.
05:34<@planetmaker>or whereever
05:34<@Alberth>Bolt__: but even then, you are optimizing for the current squirrel implementation, which may change in time
05:34<Bolt__>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/647/
05:36<Bolt__>Alberth - you are correct,
05:38<@Alberth>you are a little careless with empty lines
05:39<Bolt__>true. it is my forage into the openTTD code base. My first change!
05:39<@Alberth>line 82 breaks the alignment of the table
05:40<@planetmaker>the functions miss the doxygen
05:41<@Alberth>yeah, it's a quite good patch
05:41<Bolt__>when you make an action in the game, you forfeit all your opcodes for that tick. by knowing the op codes remaining, it should be possible to do useful work in the tick before performing the game action. ( or so my theory goes)
05:41<@Alberth>planetmaker: the AI code has slightly different conventions than the other code (to complicate matters)
05:42<Bolt__>I noticed that the train AI spend a lot of time in construction..
05:42<@planetmaker>Alberth: might be. I hardly ventured in that code region
05:43<@Alberth>but it looks like in ai/ai_instance.hpp that you need more doxymentayion indeed.
05:43<@Alberth>s/ay/at/
05:43<Bolt__>would you like me to update the patch to include the specially formatted comments?
05:43<@Alberth>sure, it's your patch
05:43-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BD0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:44<@Terkhen>that would be nice :)
05:44<@planetmaker>Alberth: but where are functions then documented?
05:44<@planetmaker>I mean... you're the code correctness police, not me. But...
05:44<@Alberth>Bolt__: I am not sure how managable dynamically changing work is, it sounds like it would complicate the squirrel code a lot
05:45<Bolt__>yeah, perhaps. but it sounds like a fun challenge for me.
05:45<@Alberth>planetmaker: in the *.h files rather than in the *.cpp files. I believe we should fix that some day
05:47<@Alberth>Bolt__: perhaps it is wise to first open a topic in the NoAI forum about it? It gives you and other authors a chance to try it, and see how it works.
05:47<Bolt__>ok sure.
05:48<@planetmaker>but yes, generally looks very nice
05:48<@Alberth>I am a bit worried that people will only use it for doing premature optimization with it
05:48<@planetmaker>well, can't be helped
05:49<@planetmaker>that's the AI authors' responsibility
05:49<@planetmaker>with newgrfs I'm also responsible as author that it looks and works ok ;-)
05:50<@Alberth>hmm, fair point
05:50<@planetmaker>(and not to optimize an industry set to produce and accept stuff for all industries :-P )
05:51<@Alberth>but... no industry yet accepts 'things' and 'stuff' :p
05:51<@planetmaker>OpenTTD-simple: one industry which produces stuff and accepts stuff. And one generic vehicle per type which transports stuff ;-)
05:51<@planetmaker>and then only one type of house where "stuff" lives in :-P
05:51<@planetmaker>welcome to cylon world
05:51<PeanutHorst>...
05:51<@Alberth>would be great for kids :)
05:52<@planetmaker>:-D
05:53<@Alberth>preferably big stuff in nice primary colours :)
05:54<Bolt__>btw, I love the game. since I played the original LONG time ago.
05:55<@planetmaker>I guess that's why we're here ;-)
05:56<@planetmaker>Alberth: that idea actually is that simple it's even feasible to make such scenario in a quite reasonable amount of time
05:56<Bolt__>In terms of pre-mature optimisation, knowing how to write more efficient code from the start, will help me to write AI that is far faster.
05:56<@planetmaker>good :-)
05:57<@planetmaker>Some AIs are not really fast, thinking of AIs which take literally (game)years to start doing anything
05:57<Bolt__>for instance. using list.valuate() uses 50% less opCodes that a foreach loop
05:57-!-Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
05:58<@planetmaker>Bolt__: maybe you find a place (in the wiki?) to elaborate on this?
05:58<@planetmaker>Other less experienced AI authors might profit from it
05:58-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
05:58<Bolt__>I am not an experience AI author. I am just tinkering.
05:59<Bolt__>reading the docs. absorbing, reading others code to learn.
05:59<Bolt__>BORG...
05:59<@planetmaker>:-)
05:59<Bolt__>assimulating
05:59<Bolt__>:)
06:03<Lachie>that's the way to be
06:04<@Alberth>there's enough information to last a life time :)
06:06<Bolt__>indeed.
06:06<@planetmaker>only one lifetime? ;-)
06:06-!-DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
06:09<Bolt__>Ill post something into the forums and wiki. with code examples. give me a few days to compile it for human consumption
06:10-!-JVassie_ [~James@2.25.206.0] has joined #openttd
06:11-!-Fuco [dota.keys@server.dasnet.cz] has joined #openttd
06:12<@planetmaker>hm... I think we have a regression with palette animation
06:12<@planetmaker>the light house's animation differs between trunk and 1.0.5
06:13<@planetmaker>in 1.0.5 it's still correct
06:15<Elukka>http://i.imgur.com/qmtEP.jpg
06:15<@planetmaker>also in 1.1.0
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>that looks very american
06:20-!-Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd
06:20-!-Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-023-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
06:23<Bolt__>trying to create an account in the tt-forums.net. I get the error 'One or more of the fields entered was marked as spam' what does that mean?
06:23<Bolt__>could it be that it does not like the @gmail.com email address?
06:24<@planetmaker>iirc that e-mail address is ok
06:25<Bolt__>tt-forums.net - » Why can’t I register?
06:25<Bolt__>It is possible the website owner has banned your IP address or disallowed the username you are attempting to register. The website owner could have also disabled registration to prevent new visitors from signing up. Contact a board administrator for assistance.
06:25<Bolt__>not v useful
06:26<@planetmaker>orudge: ^
06:31<Bolt__>worked it out. that error was the websites way of saying 'that username is already in use'
06:34<@orudge>Bolt__: what username are you trying to use?
06:34<@orudge>or were you trying to use?
06:34<@orudge>(brb)
06:34<Bolt__>username: bolt
06:35<Bolt__>i created 'bolt12345' as a test.
06:35<Bolt__>i have since changed its email address to a@gmail.com so I can create another account.
06:35<Bolt__>since I now know what the error means.
06:40<Elukka>Eddi|zuHause: this is the weirdest thing
06:40<Elukka>V19.1001
06:41<Elukka>http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/steamotor/19-1001a.jpg
06:41<Elukka>looks like your usual streamliner... but http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/steamotor/19V8.jpg
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>yes. some more details here: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRB-Baureihe_19.10
07:12-!-b_jonas [~x@russell2.math.bme.hu] has joined #openttd
07:20-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:24-!-Bolt__ [~chatzilla@124-168-110-10.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:32-!-hanf [~Klaus@host-89-242-74-197.as13285.net] has joined #openttd
07:48<CIA-6>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23032 /trunk/src/table/palette_convert.h: -Fix (r14224, r22419): Palette conversion windows to DOS for light house / stadium animated colour was mixed up
07:49<TrueBrain>planetmaker: what does r14224 have to do with it? :)
07:49<@planetmaker>that's where the palette was actually defined and where it originally went wrong
07:49<TrueBrain>@commit 14224
07:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Commit by truebrain :: r14224 /trunk (5 files) (2008-09-02 15:34:38 UTC)
07:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: -Fix: copy Makefile.bundle too to your working dir, so you don't need to run ./configure in the root of OpenTTD
07:49<TrueBrain>you sure? :P
07:49<@planetmaker>hm...
07:50<@planetmaker>no :-)
07:50<TrueBrain>:D:D
07:50<@planetmaker>14229, sorry :-)
07:51<@planetmaker>nasty type or bit flip in memory between looking up and typing the ci message ;-)
07:51<TrueBrain>bit flip, I am sure :)
07:52<@planetmaker>:-)
07:53-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-060-227.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
07:56-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-61-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
08:01<MNIM>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Pm_3-5_als_Pm_3-3_Warszawa_06.04.05.jpg
08:01<MNIM>sexy.
08:02<MNIM>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRB_Class_03.10
08:09<Elukka>why did they have to scrap the V19...
08:09<Elukka>it was damaged during ww2, then repaired, then grabbed by the americans, tested in virginia, scrapped
08:09<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: because the americans had no use for it
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>diesel traction was the future
08:10<Eddi|zuHause>and "V19" was not the official name anyway
08:11*MNIM looks for steam turbine engines en steam-electrics
08:11<Elukka>not the br 03, but i think the br 05 (which looks very similar streamlined) looks better without streamlining
08:11<Elukka>http://www.bahnbilder.de/bilder/br-05-284195.jpg
08:12<Elukka>those are some huge driving wheels
08:13<MNIM>drive wheels in excess of 2m weren't uncommon, or so Ive heard
08:13<MNIM>anyway, gotta go
08:16<b_jonas>on ships?
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>the BR 05 and BR 61 (and resulting from that the 18 201) have the largest wheel diameters in germany, 2300mm
08:21<b_jonas>how about in ancient China?
08:21<Elukka>the great railways of ancient china?
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>i doubt ancient china ever was part of germany
08:22<b_jonas>Elukka: ships, not railways
08:22<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: you sure?
08:22<Elukka>we were talking of steam locomotives
08:22<b_jonas>oh
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: they never teach these things in school!!
08:22<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: we should sue them!
08:22<Eddi|zuHause>history of germany is such a neglected topic!
08:22<b_jonas>you mentioned large wheels so I thought of ships
08:23<Eddi|zuHause>b_jonas: and the pictures of steam engines didn't put you off?
08:23<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, all I learnt about germany is that they dig great holes on the beach, and stole my bike
08:24<b_jonas>oh
08:24<b_jonas>well I just heared "drive wheels in excess of 2m weren't uncommon"
08:25-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
08:26<@Alberth>yo!
08:26<b_jonas>in here, the transportation museum has a large ship's engine connected to two paddle wheels exhibited outdoors a bit farther from the museum. every kid climbs on them, despite the signs.
08:27<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: too far? Awwhh
08:27<TrueBrain>I am sorry :)
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: sorry, not quite awake yet
08:28<b_jonas>well, some trains are also exhibited
08:28<b_jonas>I should visit that museum again some times
08:29<b_jonas>though I have another museum queued first
08:29<b_jonas>hmm, maybe Tuesdy afternoon
08:29<b_jonas>or maybe not
08:30-!-SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has joined #openttd
08:34<__ln__>http://www.i-programmer.info/news/82-heritage/3194-leonardo-di-caprio-to-play-alan-turing.html
08:36<TrueBrain>the reasons I hate Windows: I upload something via VirtualBox on Windows in a Linux guest with 10 MB/s (well, 11, but who is counting)
08:36<TrueBrain>I open WinSCP, I upload the same file on the Windows host system to the remote .... 746 KB/s ..
08:36<TrueBrain>wtf?
08:37-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
08:37<@Alberth>ie WinSCP is horribly bad programmed?
08:37<TrueBrain>or Windows is
08:39<@Alberth>given the size of the OS, P(windows is badly programmed) = 1
08:39<TrueBrain>lol :D
08:43-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1dc0:4b2d:a10f:a693] has joined #openttd
08:43-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
08:44-!-TWerkhoven [~Turbulent@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:02<TinoDidriksen>Use rsync instead of WinSCP...
09:04<b_jonas>or download stuff on http
09:05<@Alberth>very likely TB is not downloading stuff from the internets
09:07<b_jonas>sure, but I mean, when I want to move a large file on LAN to a windows machine, I often do it by putting it on a HTTP server on one machine and load it from the windows machine
09:08<b_jonas>it doesn't have to do anything with the internet
09:09-!-Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has joined #openttd
09:10-!-llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cdb8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
09:11-!-llugo [~lugo@mgdb-4db8cdb8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit []
09:11-!-lugo [lugo@209.141.56.5] has joined #openttd
09:11-!-mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-190-133.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
09:16-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-113-68.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:18-!-TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
09:22<@Alberth>lol, that is one silly work-around :)
09:24<@Terkhen>you can access files on any computer in a LAN by writing \\ip and using that computer credentials
09:24<@Terkhen>unless the computer is configured differently
09:26<@peter1138>yeah, cos we all use windows
09:31<Arafangion>I'm going to assume a very open definition for "configured differently".
09:32<@Terkhen>:P
09:33<@Terkhen>I was talking about avoiding that silly work around on windows
09:33-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4db3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
09:34<@Alberth>moin
09:34<Arafangion>Well, most file transfer methods are pretty sucky for large files.
09:34<Arafangion>Except, perhaps, http and ftp, sadly.
09:34<@peter1138>floppy disks especially so
09:34<b_jonas>rsync --partial ?
09:34<@Alberth>HD-copy :p
09:35<b_jonas>truck filled with hard disks?
09:35<TWerkhoven>null-modem cable ?
09:35<b_jonas>ah, people still call serial cables that? fun
09:35<@Terkhen>hi frosch123
09:35<@peter1138>i copied doom wads with a serial cable
09:35<@peter1138>took a while
09:35<Arafangion>peter1138: Those aren't a large file, surely?
09:35<@Alberth>b_jonas: truck filled with tapes works very well
09:35<b_jonas>I used those much more than modems
09:36<b_jonas>serial cables that is
09:36<@Terkhen>heh :P
09:36*Alberth uses serial UTP nowadays :p
09:36<b_jonas>tape reader to telex through modem to tape punch?
09:36<Arafangion>I like to use SSH - keep it simple.
09:36<@peter1138>Arafangion, 14MB was very large back then
09:37<b_jonas>yeah, I used floppies too, back when they worked
09:37<b_jonas>running between two rooms swapping three floppies
09:37<Arafangion>Alas, ssh is pretty crappy with resumption, so b_jonas's suggestion is a respectable workaround.
09:37<@peter1138>and i still remember when the encryption overhead presented quite a bottleneck
09:38<Arafangion>There's a fork of openssh actually, tuned for performance.
09:38<Arafangion>One option is indeed to disable encryption.
09:38<b_jonas>I still don't understand why you call it a workaround
09:38<b_jonas>http is for downloading stuff
09:38<b_jonas>how the hell is it a workaround?
09:38<@peter1138>*hyper text transport protocol*
09:38<@peter1138>yeah, perfect for downloading files
09:38<b_jonas>it's also not silly
09:39<b_jonas>who cares about the name?
09:39<@Terkhen>because an http server is not intended to share files on a LAN, although it can be used for it
09:39<b_jonas>I'm using rsync for local copying stuff too, when it's neither remote nor synchronizing anything
09:39<@Alberth>copy a file on a LAN? let's start a server first. How is that not weird?
09:40<b_jonas>Alberth: start? it's already on when I turn on the machine
09:40<b_jonas>all I need is give a file to it and it's shared
09:40<@Alberth>why do you run http servers at random machines?
09:40<@peter1138>to copy files around :)
09:40<b_jonas>Alberth: who said random machines
09:40<b_jonas>I use this to copy files from my machine to other machines, at home
09:41<b_jonas>it's not a random machine
09:41<@Alberth>so how do you copy it back from your other machine then?
09:41<andythenorth>why is this weird?
09:41<@Alberth>start a http server?
09:41<andythenorth>it's as good as any other route
09:41<b_jonas>samba if the other one is a widows machine
09:41<Arafangion>http can handle push as well as pull.
09:41<b_jonas>or it depends
09:41<andythenorth>some ready-to-go NAS boxes do this
09:42<b_jonas>it doesn't happen as often
09:42<Arafangion>http is actually very flexible.
09:42<b_jonas>Arafangion: I know, but it doesn't help
09:42<andythenorth>I've done it for cross-platform sharing
09:42<andythenorth>now I'd probably just use Dropbox
09:42<andythenorth>or IM
09:42-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C359.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:42<andythenorth>or email
09:42<andythenorth>or USB
09:42<b_jonas>the point is that I can do anything with my own machine I want, but I don't want to install stuff on the other machine
09:42-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D0DB.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
09:42*Arafangion gets some sleep.
09:42<b_jonas>I can use http because at least a simple http client is always available on whatever other machine I want to copy to
09:44<Arafangion>It's also astonisingly trivial to write yourself.
09:44<b_jonas>that's also why when I'm doing this I often put files to a zip archive
09:44<b_jonas>because the other machine will always have a zip decompressor
09:45<b_jonas>that reminds me, am I the only person to have used double-zip? as in, zip files without compression, then zip that zip file with compression.
09:45<b_jonas>so that files aren't just compressed individually like zip does.
09:45<Arafangion>b_jonas: That's sensible.
09:45<@Terkhen>isn't that what tar.gz supposedly does?
09:45<Arafangion>b_jonas: But windows's default crappy zip doesn't do that.
09:45<Arafangion>Terkhen: More or less, yes.
09:46<@Terkhen>and yes, I never use Windows zip implementation, I instal 7z or winrar
09:46<b_jonas>Terkhen: yep
09:46<Arafangion>The hot new kid is lzma, I believe.
09:46<Arafangion>tar.lz
09:47<b_jonas>actually it's xz which is the new version of lzma compressing better and with a cooler sounding name
09:47<@Terkhen>xz
09:47<b_jonas>it's not like it's better than some older compressors, but somehow it's managed to spread
09:47<b_jonas>I've been finding xz-compressed tarballs everywhere on the net before computers even started to have xz decompressor
09:48<b_jonas>(luckily there's usually a gzip-compressed copy next to it, just like in many places that distribute bzip2-compressed tarballs)
09:48-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd []
09:50<Arafangion>I used to be crazy about compression. Now I just like gzip. It's a sensible balanace.
09:51<Arafangion>And more importantly, doesn't tax my Atom D525 too hashly.
09:51<Arafangion>*harshly.
09:51<Arafangion>Which is what I play OpenTTD on. :)
09:51<b_jonas>there's always http://www.mailcom.com/challenge/
09:52<b_jonas>to show the current state of art in compression
09:52<b_jonas>though that works only if you only care for size, not for speed or memory use of compression of decompression
09:55<Arafangion>Yeah, well memory's cheap these days - but speed is not.
10:07<@Alberth>but it is all multi-core nowadays
10:25-!-bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has joined #openttd
10:33-!-hanf [~Klaus@host-89-242-74-197.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:45<Rubidium>yeah, xz/lzma can compress the savegames 10 to 15% better than they do at the moment with default settings
10:53<frosch123>multi-core is nice. finally something can make good use of mutexes :p
10:53<@Terkhen>:P
10:54<TrueBrain>best argument ever :D
10:55<Rubidium>not mutices?
10:55<@Alberth>almost infinite new opportunities to create nice non-reproducable bugs :p
10:55<frosch123>i think semaphores are popular in this channel :p
10:56<@Alberth>nah, we just need more people :)
10:57<@Alberth>like #python, 700+ people chatting :)
10:57<frosch123>you mean idling?
10:57<@Alberth>mostly, but sometimes you get 4 discussions concurrently :)
10:58<Rubidium>http://www.kindertv.net/screenshots/albums/screenshots/Dommel/dommel8.jpg <- Semaphore. I used to love him ;)
11:00<Korenn>Dommel was awesome, dutch stories but drawn by a japanese studio
11:00<Korenn>or flemish, I guess?
11:02*Alberth was thinking about this dommel: http://eindhoven.sp.nl/images/dommel.jpg
11:03<Korenn>Alberth: I was expecting a picture of beer :P
11:12-!-Danio [Danio@83.101.65.8] has joined #openttd
11:22-!-Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:23-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has joined #openttd
11:27-!-Lachie [whitey@creep.bur.st] has joined #openttd
11:29<@Terkhen>yay, I lost an hour because I confused the arguments of HasBit
11:29<SpComb>type-safety!!1
11:31<@Terkhen>http://devs.openttd.org/~terkhen/screenshots/subsidy.png
11:32<@Terkhen>now I need a houses NewGRF that produces / accepts strange stuff
11:32<@Yexo>ecs houses?
11:33<frosch123>toyland?
11:34<@Terkhen>let's try :)
11:41-!-JVassie_ [~James@2.25.206.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:01-!-JVassie_ [~James@2.25.206.0] has joined #openttd
12:22-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
12:22<b_jonas>What's your experience with plastic glass frames? Is their material really better than it used to be a decade ago?
12:23-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit []
12:24-!-Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has quit []
12:30<Ammler>b_jonas: which newgrf?
12:39-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
12:40<b_jonas>Ammler: huh? in real life
12:40<Ammler>real life is off topic here :-)
12:41<__ln__>real life *is* a newgrf.
12:41<Ammler>hehe
12:41<@Alberth>any form of 'real' is off-topic :p
12:41<b_jonas>Ammler: there are railroad modelers here, I think they know all about plastics
12:42<@Alberth>most often in the form of 'realistic' :)
12:42-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-190-133.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
12:42-!-NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-190-133.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
12:42-!-NOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-190-133.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit []
12:42-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-190-133.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit []
12:42-!-mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-190-133.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte]
12:44-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit []
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>since when is this channel _not_ off topic?
12:47<TrueBrain>who are you talking to? :P
12:47<TrueBrain>:D:D
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>i'm praying to the almighty root
12:48<TrueBrain>sudo su -
12:48<TrueBrain>yes? :)
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>something like that
12:48-!-TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
12:49-!-TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:04<MNIM>Wait, we have somebody who knows the river dommel?
13:07-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-060-227.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:08-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-006-139.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd
13:10-!-TWerkhoven2 is now known as TWerkhoven
13:15-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
13:20-!-TWerkhoven2 [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
13:22-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
13:25-!-TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:26<Rubidium>MNIM: I'd argue you ought to know it when you work so close to it
13:27<MNIM>ahah.
13:27<MNIM>I thought alberth was german, actually.
13:27-!-z-MaTRiX [~matrix@nude.lesbianbath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:30-!-Devroush [~dennis@178-119-81-33.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:31*Rubidium wonders whether having been to Germany counts
13:32-!-hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-30-81.as13285.net] has joined #openttd
13:39-!-DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
13:40-!-DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:44<@Alberth>MNIM: why do you think so?
13:44-!-mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-190-133.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
13:45<MNIM>I dunno, really
13:48-!-DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
13:49-!-DayDreamer1 [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:51<@Alberth>:(
13:51<@Alberth>it's just that several people have that idea, and I'd like to know why
13:51-!-TWerkhoven2 is now known as TWerkhoven
13:52<Rubidium>"Frisians, the medieval and modern ethnic group inhabiting Frisia, a region on the western coasts of Germany [...]"
13:53<TWerkhoven>o_O
13:54<Elukka>http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/swisselec/swisselc3a.jpg
13:54<Elukka>electric steam locomotive
13:54<@Alberth>Oh, I am German after all :p
13:55-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BD0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:55<Rubidium>the joys of selective quotations ;)
13:55<@planetmaker>hehe
13:55<frosch123>western coast of germany?
13:56<TWerkhoven>yup
13:56<@planetmaker>Alberth: you have a strong dialect then :-P
13:56<TWerkhoven>theres a tiny bit of it
13:56<Elukka>http://www.aqpl43.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/swisselec/swisselec6.jpg
13:57<@Alberth>planetmaker: hoho, Frisian is a real language! (not that I speak it though :) )
13:57<@planetmaker>yeah, I know. Officially acknowledged minority or so, right?
13:57<@Alberth>something like that :)
13:57<frosch123>frisian is incomplete :p
13:57<@planetmaker>:-P
13:58*planetmaker should play in Frisian
13:58<@planetmaker>maybe I learn something ;-)
13:58<Rubidium>it's such a minority language that it even has a 2 letter ISO 639 code
13:58<TWerkhoven>theres a frisian translation?
13:58<@planetmaker>yes
13:58<TWerkhoven>wow
13:58<TWerkhoven>the benefits of opensource
13:58<@Alberth>frosch123: unfortunately, I can only understand it
13:58<frosch123>it's not packaged in the nightly as it is too incomplete
13:59<frosch123>1047 missing strings
13:59<TWerkhoven>out of?
13:59<+glx>may more :)
13:59<+glx>*way
13:59<frosch123>70.1% done
13:59-!-bryjen [~bryjen@76.92.84.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
13:59<frosch123>around 4000 strings per language
14:00<Rubidium>Schwyzerdütsch doesn't even have a 2 letter ISO 639 code
14:01<frosch123>frisian is spoken by 400.000 people according to wiki
14:02<b_jonas>Rubidium: how about a three letter code?
14:02<b_jonas>wait, let me look that up
14:02<Rubidium>if a language has a 2 letter code, it has a 3 letter one as well
14:02<b_jonas>I mean Schwyzerdütsch
14:03<Rubidium>oh, it has one
14:03<@planetmaker>hm... in the context of iso 639 the word "macrolanguage" has an interesting meaning
14:03<@planetmaker>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrolanguage
14:04<b_jonas>it seems Schwyzerdütsch has a three-letter iso639 code: gsw
14:04<Rubidium>Dutch as well: dut and nld
14:05<Rubidium>or ger/deu for German and fre/fra for French, yet English only has eng
14:07-!-z-MaTRiX [~matrix@2a01:270:dd00:7701:1337:1337:1337:1337] has joined #openttd
14:08-!-z-MaTRiX [~matrix@2a01:270:dd00:7701:1337:1337:1337:1337] has quit []
14:08-!-z-MaTRiX [~matrix@index.linuxsecured.net] has joined #openttd
14:08<z-MaTRiX>hi
14:10<@Alberth>hi
14:11<Rubidium>that's Hindi ;)
14:12<z-MaTRiX>wazup?
14:12<z-MaTRiX>some new construction limits in-game?
14:12-!-xmirakulix [~anonymous@85-127-129-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd
14:13<@planetmaker>:-)
14:13<@planetmaker>z-MaTRiX: not that I'm aware of. Did you find a server which employs some?
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: so if every language has a 3-letter code based on the english name, and one based on its native name. is there any wonder that both are the same for english?
14:13-!-xmirakulix [~anonymous@85-127-129-225.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit []
14:13<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: not every language
14:14<@planetmaker>Servers can limit bulldoze / terraform for clients
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: ok, then fiddle "usually" and "most" into that sentence :)
14:15<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: Frisian = Frysk/fresk/friisk/frasch/Fräisk, and has fry as 3 letter code
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>was fri already taken?
14:16<z-MaTRiX>Frisian Dew thats a nice flower
14:16<Rubidium>no
14:19<Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> "Frisians, the medieval and modern ethnic group inhabiting Frisia, a region on the western coasts of Germany [...]" <-- that's not totally wrong, given "West Frisia", "East Frisia" and "North Frisia", 2 out of 3 are part of germany
14:21<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: coast of western germany != western coast of germany
14:21<@planetmaker>I think it can be understood both ways and both is correct
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that may depend on where you are standing :)
14:22<frosch123>well, western coast would fit around 1400
14:23*TWerkhoven wonders how many ppl are here from current-day friesland in the NL
14:23<Rubidium>from as in "currently living" or "born in"? In both cases I'd say at least one
14:24<TWerkhoven>either or
14:24<TWerkhoven>i was born there, but moved to scotland 5 years ago
14:24<frosch123>so, at least two
14:25<TWerkhoven>and have since been mistaken for portugese, irish, german, spanish and english
14:25<Rubidium>then I'd say resp. at least 1 and at least 3
14:25<Rubidium>though I'd have guess you can from Utrecht (the province) ;)
14:26<Rubidium>s/can/came/
14:27<TWerkhoven>lol
14:27<TWerkhoven>any reasson why?
14:27<Rubidium>TWerkhoven: http://maps.google.nl/maps/place?ftid=0x47c65d8f893a0b39:0xc7c6acb4a468878f&q=52.023293,5.243654&ved=0CAwQ-gswAA&sa=X&ei=GSKbTrPmE9fbOPG9gMEP
14:28<TWerkhoven>ah yes, forgot about that one
14:32<TWerkhoven>never even been there though
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>that reminds me... i never even asked where "Borstel" actually was...
14:38<Rubidium>which of the two? ;)
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>as in "Ingo von"
14:40<@planetmaker>that depends, Eddi|zuHause
14:42<Rubidium>ghehe... one is 127 km, the other 254 km from Braunschweig
14:42<@planetmaker>it's a common place name in North Western Germany with variations of *borstel and *bostel
14:42<@planetmaker>and has no relation to the Dutch word of "borstel" ;-)
14:42<@planetmaker>it derives from buar stell
14:43<@planetmaker>ethymologically speaking
14:45<@planetmaker>there's no exact town or village which I could point you to, though
14:47<@planetmaker>if it has to be a place, it'd probably be this: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borstel_%28Landkreis_Diepholz%29
14:48<@planetmaker>or better http://nds.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6ssel_%28Landkreis_Deefholt%29 :-P
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>"(Stand: Kommunalwahl am 9. September 2001)" <- that page probably needs an update
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>or two.
14:50<@planetmaker>yeah ;-)
14:50<@planetmaker>but the first mentioning of that place coincides with how far back I can roughly trace my name
14:53-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-72-17.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
14:54-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@nsc.ciup.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:56-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has joined #openttd
14:59-!-mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-190-133.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:05-!-Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-177-193.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd
15:06-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
15:37-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd []
15:37-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>i think one of my calculations was too evil: nmlc: "src/templates/gfx_templates.pnml", line 47: Real sprite paramater 'xsize' out of range 1..65535, encountered -18
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>but if nmlc would tell me the include chain, it'd help tremendously actually figuring out _where_
15:39-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd []
15:51-!-Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe93dd00-34.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit []
15:53<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23033 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4776]: the last custom playlist items went lost when the files in the .obm are not contiguous
15:56<@planetmaker>g'night
15:56<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23034 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix: make sure the custom playlists are 0 terminated
15:59<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23035 /trunk/src/music_gui.cpp: -Fix (r23034): compile failure
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>hm... when was the last "compile before commit" commit?
16:01<@Terkhen>I made one of those months ago IIRC
16:01-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd
16:01-!-LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-236-122.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
16:01<LordAro>eveninga
16:01<@Terkhen>code, compile, fix something that was forgotten, commit without compiling again
16:02<@Terkhen>hi LordAro and andythenorth
16:02<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: compile in the right directory before commit ;)
16:02<LordAro>ubuntu 11.10 ftw :)
16:02<@Terkhen>does it have gnome 2?
16:02<LordAro>i believe so
16:02<LordAro>and unity, unfortunately
16:02<@Terkhen>bah
16:03*Terkhen did not like unity
16:03<@Terkhen>it feels as if I'm in a phone
16:03<LordAro>11.04 decided that unity wouldn't run on my pc, 11.10 decided it would, but my icons went missing, so i switched back
16:03<LordAro>i like to know what programs i've got installed, not have to search for them
16:04<LordAro>or at least, that was my impression of it
16:04<@Terkhen>I wonder if anyone did a serious fork of gnome2 already
16:04*Terkhen googles
16:04*Rubidium wonders how much win something is that is said to be "the latest of everything" when it ships with an OpenTTD of over 13 months old...
16:05<LordAro>"checking libtimidity... not found" and i'm getting sort of "bitty" music from ottd
16:05<LordAro>libtimidity is installed, i've checked
16:05<@Terkhen>heh, it does not include a 1.1.x?
16:06<LordAro>sound effects are fine
16:06<@Terkhen>wow, it's 1.0.4
16:06<LordAro>and its the same with 1.1.0
16:06<LordAro>known issue?
16:07<@Terkhen>I don't know, check the readme, I remember something about music
16:07<@Terkhen>I never use it anyways
16:07<Rubidium>if it sounds wrong, then timdity is broken... not OpenTTD ;)
16:08<@Terkhen>I vaguely remember some problems with timidity back when I used ubuntu
16:08<LordAro>typical
16:08<LordAro>it was fine with 11.04
16:09<Rubidium>LordAro: I'd argue you don't have libtimidity installed
16:09<Rubidium>https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/timidity/+bug/483491
16:11<LordAro>oh, my icons just went missing again - not unity's fault :)
16:11<@Alberth>evenink LordAro
16:12<LordAro>hai Alberth
16:12*Rubidium ponders changing from Debian unstable to Ubuntu stable for the extra thrill of having lots of brokeness ;)
16:12<@Terkhen>hmm... I'll need to rethink my subsidies patch, you barely get any industry subsidies at all
16:13<@Terkhen>try arch :P
16:14<@Terkhen>it's fun until something breaks
16:14<@Terkhen>then it is extra fun
16:16<LordAro>[21:09:04] <Rubidium> LordAro: I'd argue you don't have libtimidity installed <-- i'd argue not: http://i53.tinypic.com/az6z5f.png
16:16<LordAro>unless... libtimidity is not timidity
16:16<Rubidium>have you read my link?
16:16<LordAro>ah
16:16<Rubidium>it's a bug report about timidity not providing libtimidity
16:16<LordAro>ok, you win :)
16:17<@Terkhen>that's a big bug :P
16:17<Rubidium>not really
16:18<Rubidium>as libtimidity is a separate project (I think some sort of ancient fork of timidity)
16:18<@Terkhen>oh
16:18<@Terkhen>confusing name then :P
16:22<Rubidium>agreed ;)
16:23<LordAro>hmm, how do you add new programs to ubuntu repos?
16:23<LordAro>i can find nothing on the interwebs
16:24<@Terkhen>get them on debian first and wait? :P
16:25*LordAro keeps pondering changing to debian
16:26<@Terkhen>when I think about changing distributions, I install them on a virtual machine first
16:26<@Terkhen>then I can play a bit and know for sure if I like them or not
16:27<LordAro>i did that, but never get around to using it :)
16:34<@Alberth>just install the new distribution :)
16:34-!-heyhey [heyhey@modemcable043.42-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd
16:34<heyhey>hey
16:34<@Alberth>you're missing a 'hey'
16:35<@Terkhen>hey heyhey
16:35<@Alberth>but welcome :)
16:35<heyhey>lol just started playing openttd, found the channel, happy to see there's a place to chat about it
16:36<@Alberth>actually other topics dominate the channel, but discussions about openttd are fine too :)
16:37<heyhey>cool, my wife is not happy I found this game though, like once you get a game going it's hard to stop for a couple of hours
16:37<heyhey>is there a list of like tested patches out there, I was on the forums but it's really hard to sort what's good and not buggy
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>"couple of hours"? did you mean "couple of days"? :p
16:39<Rubidium>I'd argue that most if not all of the good and not buggy patches are already in OpenTTD
16:39<@Alberth>good night all
16:39<Rubidium>night
16:40-!-Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd []
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>your best bet about semi-useful patches is a patchpack, but there hasn't been one in the past few months
16:41<heyhey>ok, I just downloaded a bunch from within the game too, just wanted some more maps and modern vehicles
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>those are NewGRFs, not patches
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>important difference
16:42<heyhey>ok, my mistake, I was referring to that then..
16:43*Terkhen likes OpenGFX+ sets, but those don't change much
16:44<@Terkhen>also FIRS and HEQS
16:44<heyhey>can I get firs/heqs within the download content of within the game?
16:44<Pinkbeast>It does seem a pity that every patchpack person starts with a few really nice ones, expands to something the size of the Moon, and burns out.
16:44<Pinkbeast>heyhey> yes
16:44<@Terkhen>heyhey: yes
16:44<heyhey>ya, looking for one geared with vehicles
16:45<@Terkhen>I kept mine reasonably small until I abandoned it for obvious reasons :P
16:45<andythenorth>heyhey: get the latest FIRS here: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/
16:45<Pinkbeast>heyhey> You still seem to be a bit confused between patchpacks and newgrfs
16:45<andythenorth>heyhey: the latest FIRS also needs a nightly build of the game (not the 'release')
16:46<@Terkhen>hey, don't start confusing him already :P
16:46<@Terkhen>with nightly stuff
16:46<heyhey>ya I get confused easily already
16:46<andythenorth>I forgot that FIRS needed the nightly until after I posted the link :P
16:47<andythenorth>silly /me
16:47<heyhey>ya I like the newgrfs you can just click install right within the game
16:47<@Terkhen>heyhey: the newest FIRS (with a lot of new nice stuff) requires a version of OpenTTD that still hasn't been released (called a nightly)
16:47<@Terkhen>but you can find a previous version on the online content that works fine too
16:47<@Terkhen>to start with the game you don't need bleeding edge :)
16:48<@Terkhen>if you use a industry NewGRF such as FIRS, you also need vehicle NewGRFs
16:48<heyhey>nah I just want some updated planes/vehicles/trains that sort of thing, like that goes into futuristic stuff as well
16:48<@Terkhen>because the old vehicles won't be able to carry the new cargos
16:49<heyhey>ya this is the one I had installed av8 for planes, going to look for some more
16:49<@Terkhen>for ships I like FISH, for vehicles, eGRVTS + HEQS, for planes av8
16:50<@Terkhen>of course that's just my personal opinion :)
16:50*Terkhen does not have a favourite train set
16:50<Pinkbeast>For trains is a trickier one but I would gently suggest URKS1 for people who don't know what they want
16:50<heyhey>ok perfect
16:50<Pinkbeast>*UKRS1
16:50<heyhey>is anyone as old as me in here? i'm 32 and playing a game like this lol my wife thinks I'm nuts
16:51<Pinkbeast>You're younger than me, at the very least.
16:51<@Terkhen>older than me, but I usually feel young here
16:52<heyhey>also, terk, is there a good AI that is able to use those grfs or no?
16:52<heyhey>I added some AIs, but like even after 10 years, they just sit there having done nothing
16:53<heyhey>or some start then just stop building a bit into it
16:53<Pinkbeast>NoCAB is most likely to muddle through random grf selections (but just clogs all the roads up with vehicles 90% of the time).
16:53<@Terkhen>I usually play alone or multiplayer
16:53<Pinkbeast>AdmiralAI sometimes does well, sometimes chokes.
16:53<@Terkhen>but I know that many AIs require a lot of time to plan what to do
16:54<heyhey>ok
16:54<Pinkbeast>trAIns, Choo Choo, and "Denver and Rio Grande" all sometimes manage to build working railway operations.
16:54<@Yexo>heyhey: I'm aware of at least one 72 year old person playing openttd
16:54<@peter1138>Belugas is not that old
16:55<@Yexo>lol
16:55<@Terkhen>:D
16:55<heyhey>ok, so then I can tell my wife a lot of older guys are playing too and I'm not that out of my mind
16:55<Pinkbeast>I doubt they are all "guys" either
16:55<andythenorth>heyhey: younger than me
16:55<andythenorth>slightly
16:55<andythenorth>I played the original in 1994 :P
16:55<Eddi|zuHause>i think 32 fits right into the main target group, the group of people who played this game in the mid 90's as kids
16:56-!-DayDreamer [~DayDreame@ip-86-49-59-175.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:56<heyhey>ya, honestly I love these games, are there any new ones in development, I know Cities in motion or XL wasn'tt oo good
17:00-!-SystemParadox [~simon@proxima.systemparadox.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:00<LordAro>Alberth (and a few others) started freerct a few weeks ago - it'll be several months before there's anything useable, however
17:01<andythenorth>good night
17:01-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc15-aztw25-2-0-cust3.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:02-!-Adambean [AdamR@82.hosts.reece-eu.net] has quit [Quit: Gone fishing]
17:02<Elukka>heyhey: i don't really know of any
17:02<Elukka>i still want a replacement for sim city 4 too but nobody's made a better citybuilder so far
17:03<heyhey>ya, they don't make games like they used to now
17:03-!-supermop__- [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
17:03<Pinkbeast>And Sim City (2-4) are pretty badly stuck in the American "everybody drives" mentality
17:04<Pinkbeast>... let alone trying to set up a city where nobody drives
17:04<Elukka>public transport has worked pretty well in my towns
17:04<Elukka>might be due to the expansion pack, might be due to mods, dunno
17:05<Elukka>vanilla sim city is like a bizarre mix of america and china, really :P
17:05<Elukka>america for the aesthetics, china because it's the only place where modern cities just spring out of nothing like that
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>there are some mods which change the penalties for using transports
17:17-!-yrol [~yrol@hmbg-4d065ff2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
17:17<yrol>Greek Kings :o)
17:18<yrol>Does someone here know what "openttd plus" is? i am trying out the latest ( v13.5) build of chills patchpack and get an errormessage about that grf producing an error/missing and searched a bit around and it seems to be some addon, yet i dont know where to find it.
17:20<@Terkhen>I don't know what is openttd plus, but if you have a problem with a patchpack you should ask at the patchpack thread
17:20<@Terkhen>the patchpack author will know how to help you better than us :)
17:21-!-Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:21<@Yexo>IIRC "openttd plus" is some random grf that tries to fix some already fixed problems or so
17:21<yrol>Yes, sadky, Chill seems to have left.
17:21<yrol>ah, i wonder how it got into the requirements for the build, it wasnt in my .cfg file
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>chills patchpack requires some additional base GRFs
17:23<Elukka>i think chill mentioned he's busy with moving and other such real life things but is interested in continuing with the patch pack later when he has more time
17:23<yrol>can a build, at first start edit the openttd.cfg and include a grf? it seems so, as now i have that grf in the list
17:23<@Yexo>yrol: it's a broken newgrf (it says it uses nfo version 1)
17:23<@Terkhen>yrol: a build can do anything, that's why the best place to ask is the patchpack thread itself
17:23<@Yexo>older versions of openttd didn't check that version, more recent versions like chills patachpack do and simply don't load these grfs
17:24<@Terkhen>but I don't think that chills patchpack includes a broken newgrf on purpose
17:24<yrol>°nods°
17:24<@Yexo>are you sure the message was about that grf missing/
17:24-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f4db3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:24<@Yexo>and when did you get that message?
17:24<V453000>you mean TD DP+ trains?
17:24<@Yexo>V453000: yes
17:25<V453000>ah
17:25<V453000>yes that is incompatible with new OpenTTDs :)
17:25<V453000>I think
17:25<@Yexo>it's simply broken
17:25<LordAro>indeed
17:25<V453000>yes
17:25<LordAro>it annoyed me so much i deleted it :)
17:25<V453000>well it did not bring anything interesting in the game anyway
17:26<LordAro>in fact, can someone change it's database things on bananas? limit it to 1.0.x
17:27<yrol>yexo, i am using chills patchpack v13.5 with the v1.2.0.2253 build and get a "ignoring invalid newgrf:openttd plus\ottdpp.grf, incompatible version to this openttd version"-error. it jsut made me wonder because i have not included ( as it is not in the repository of the ingame newgrf-list.
17:27<@Yexo>yrol: do you get that message in the console?
17:27<LordAro>that's more a warning rather than an error
17:27<LordAro>night all
17:28<@Terkhen>good night LordAro
17:28-!-LordAro [~lordaro@host86-156-236-122.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: "Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."]
17:28<yrol>yexo, no, in a separate window right afer starting the exe ( win xp sp3 32 bit ) i can click OK and apperently its not a big showstopper...then though i get a nasty second popup about a missing "flat_blacktiles.grf" which then crashes the ( still starting, no GUI shown ) game.
17:30<yrol>and that one i dont even have in the grf-list
17:30<@peter1138>doesn't need to be
17:31<@peter1138>you get the error if the file is in your newgrf directories
17:31<@peter1138>it's picked up during the scan to see what newgrfs are available
17:31<@peter1138>basically, ignore it
17:32-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>flat_blacktiles errors you get when you don't follow the installation instructions
17:32-!-supermop__- [~daniel_er@cpe-67-243-25-39.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: supermop__-]
17:32<yrol>ah.
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>and the other error is fairly certainly because the grf is in your .cfg
17:34-!-pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
17:36<@peter1138>other error?
17:39<yrol>peter1138, this warning: "ignoring invalid newgrf:openttd plus\ottdpp.grf, incompatible version to this openttd version"
17:40<yrol>hm, i found now some files that i should have downloaded and installed and did that.
17:42-!-Elukka [~Elukka@89-166-103-135.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
17:45<yrol>woohoo :o) after some more renaming, it works now, thanks for the help.
17:56<@Terkhen>good night
17:56<yrol>niteee
17:57-!-Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0a9627.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
17:59-!-Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:02<Wolf01>'night
18:03-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.237.235.128] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:03<@peter1138>yrol, yeah, that's the warning i was talking about
18:05<yrol>peter1138, it vanished after i started the game once and exited it again ( as usual )
18:05<yrol>hm, out of curiousity, not to beg... why do useful and neat features like the copy patch do not make it into trunk?
18:06<yrol>is it because it is too buggy or because it is seen as too.. uhm... easy to build then things?
18:08<Ammler>the former, but the latter is also true :-)
18:08-!-Bolt_ [~chatzilla@adexio2.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #openttd
18:09-!-Bolt_ [~chatzilla@adexio2.lnk.telstra.net] has quit []
18:10<__ln__>more action in indy than in F1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFyb0f9Ia0k
18:11<yrol>but would not including such features make the game more open to newbies who maybe are a bit overwhelmed by (in this case ) the whole station and tracks-building with all the signals and stuff? or... do you not want new players who aint able to cope with the depth of the game as it is?
18:11-!-Neon [~Neon@dslb-094-219-023-129.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
18:13<@Yexo>yrol: there have certainly been discussions about whether or not we'd want such a patch at all
18:14<@Yexo>but so far there has not even a decent patch be created, so starting the discussion again is quite useless
18:14<Ammler>I don't think such a feature would be useful for a newbie
18:15<Ammler>it could be useful to make boring test cases
18:16-!-Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d083773.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us!]
18:17<yrol>Yexo, "there have certainly been discussions" i can imagine that. I looked around the wiki and the design-example for stations, junctions and the like are... well... crazy.With having the copy paste patch in trunk, it ertainly would be easier for players to re-create them and by that perhaps only copy stuff, instead of -learn- how it all works, resulting in less sophisticated palyers.
18:18<@Yexo>it's not so much about that (I honestly couldn't care less how sophesticated the players are). There are however some "problems" of how and when to allow it in multiplayer
18:19<@Yexo>and I always doubt the usefulness for almost all junctions, since as soon as you play even on "normal" terrain roughness you won't be able to paste most of the time due to height level differences
18:19<yrol>Yexo, yes.
18:20-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit []
18:20<yrol>right, i always play on the most flat terain possible ( chills patchpackallows even more flat) and it wojuld need major landscaping ( and fund ) to realize many of the more complicated designs
18:21<yrol>not to mention time.
18:22<@Yexo>maybe half the "complicated" designs on the wiki are not good at all
18:24<yrol>i think they have their use in a "build"-environment, you know, like... creating artful installations, i can not really imagine them being useful to build ( although they may have their use as finished designs )
18:25<yrol>( on a 12000x12000 map °winjks° )
18:25<b_jonas>Yexo: the problem is, most of the designs on the wiki are from the era before path-signals
18:25<yrol>still, hats off to the designers of those designs
18:26<b_jonas>I'd like guides for how to use designs with path signals
18:26<@Yexo>b_jonas: even without path signals most are not that good
18:26<b_jonas>Yexo: sure
18:26<b_jonas>but still
18:26<@Yexo>for junctions or for stations?
18:26<b_jonas>Yexo: both, and also for depots
18:27<@Yexo>I don't think anything has changed for depots
18:27<@Yexo>for junctions and stations; build rail like before, replace entry signal by path signal, remove all combo and exit signals. That should work in most cases
18:27<b_jonas>depots might not have changed much but there's very few guidance about them on the wiki
18:28<b_jonas>and sometimes you want depots next to stations or junctions so if that is a good design that should be shown in the designs for junctions and signals
18:28<@Yexo>it really depends on your playstyle and settings
18:28<b_jonas>a mo, let me parse that
18:28<@Yexo>I always play with breakdowns off so I don't care about depots
18:29<yrol>:o)
18:29<b_jonas>so you say I should always remove all the exit signals? for both ro-ro and terminus stations?
18:29<yrol>there is replacing though, so depot placement has -some- importance
18:29<@Yexo>yes
18:29<b_jonas>as for "like before", I couldn't build good networks before
18:29<@Yexo>yrol: true, but for that I usually just place depots directly connected to my rail somewhere
18:30<yrol>Yexo, hm, temporary Depots?
18:30-!-JVassie_ [~James@2.25.206.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:30<@Yexo>not temporary, but I just don't care about make small sidelines for depots so trains don't block the rail as long when they come out
18:31<@Yexo>since they only go in for replacements it doesn't matter so much
18:31<yrol>°nods°
18:31-!-Danio [Danio@83.101.65.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:31<@Yexo>b_jonas: did you see http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Main_station and the rest of that wiki?
18:32<b_jonas>Yexo: no
18:32<yrol>Oh, this daylength patch is great! finally not so muchstress anymore
18:32<b_jonas>I didn't know I should rea the openttdcoop wiki even if I don't play on their server
18:32<@Yexo>a lot of the information on the wiki is useful for all players
18:34<b_jonas>ok, thanks
18:34<b_jonas>I will look at it later
18:36-!-KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:37-!-KenjiE20 [kenjie20@free.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd
18:55-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-61-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:00<yrol>°waves°
19:00-!-yrol [~yrol@hmbg-4d065ff2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-]
19:02-!-Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd
19:03-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
19:06-!-tompaw_ [~tompaw@slave30.tesserakt.eu] has joined #openttd
19:08-!-TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc14-linl7-2-0-cust28.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into]
19:08-!-tompaw [~tompaw@slave30.tesserakt.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:12-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BD0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:32-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd
20:27-!-hanf [~Klaus@host-2-96-30-81.as13285.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:27-!-Devroush [~dennis@ip-83-134-177-193.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit []
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>ooh... forum backup... didn't have that in quite a while...
21:31-!-glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:1dc0:4b2d:a10f:a693] has quit [Quit: bye]
21:42-!-Horus [~Desconhec@201-67-188-96.bnut3703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd
21:55-!-Horus [~Desconhec@201-67-188-96.bnut3703.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has left #openttd [Saindo]
23:49-!-pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-006-139.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own]
---Logclosed Mon Oct 17 00:00:46 2011