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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-10-18

---Logopened Tue Oct 18 00:00:47 2011
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00:57<yrol>Greetings :o)
00:58<yrol>is it possible ( i looked but cannot find such a feature ) to search only in one specified thread in the forum?
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01:04<SpComb>there's a search box at the bottom left
01:09<yrol>ah wonderful, thankees :o) i feared i had to read all 90 pages now
01:18<yrol>i use chills patchpack v13.5 ( altest version ) ( he apparently has left for good, according to a post in the forum, so i cant ask there/him ) and tried now half a dozen files that were linked to in the various threads, but to no avail... can someone here maybe help me with this problem? ( takes a while to load, sorry ) is this a known problem?
01:20<yrol>textexplanation: when i zoom out and move the map, the areas outside of the palyablemap have weird graphics and smear around when i move the mouse
01:21<Pinkbeast>I infer you are using Windows since you have told us nothing about what OS etc you are using.
01:21<Pinkbeast>... and I'm afraid that image is a bit teeny-tiny eyestrain-o-vision to really comment on.
01:22<yrol>windows xp sp3, yes with ottd v1.2.0.22553 and v13.5 of hills aptchpack
01:23<yrol>the issue is visible and i tried to explain it in text aswell :o)
01:24<yrol>one can also rightclik and download the image, then its 1900x1080
01:24<yrol>which shouldnt be more helpful, i think
01:25<Pinkbeast>Nope, still tiny. I suspect that's some dire Javascript from the image hosting site that tries to squirrel away the full-size version.
01:26<yrol>im just stumped, i downloaded and repalced files form many threads where it was said this or that needs to be done to fix it, yet nothing got fixed, i checked the installation procedure for the patchpack again aswell
01:26<yrol>ah, i see, i use NoScript,i guess, thats why i can download it
01:27<Pinkbeast>I use NoScript too.
01:27<Pinkbeast>What newgrfs are you using?
01:28<yrol>oh, pleae dont say, it has to do with that °gulps°
01:28<Pinkbeast>Well, it doesn't do it to me on the Windows box here, same version of the patchpack...
01:29<yrol>here is the list:
01:29<Pinkbeast>And starting a fresh game with no newgrfs is an easy test you could do.
01:29<yrol>GAH of course, what was i thinking...
01:30<Pinkbeast>... if it does cure it, it's only 6 more goes to find the offending one by interval bisection. :-)
01:30<yrol>ok, it didnt help, same error with no newgrf's
01:31<yrol>another try:
01:32<Pinkbeast>And if you toggle the fullscreen toggle in Game Options?
01:33<yrol>it -does- kinda look like an alpha-texture related error
01:34<yrol>fullscreen checked at 1980x1050 & 1024 x768..same error
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01:35<Pinkbeast>I guess it's a ropey graphics card, but I'm afraid I can't help you. Sorry.
01:36<yrol>nope. i dont get that error with the current release
01:38<yrol>well, thank you for your help nevertheless :o)
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01:39<yrol>you dont happen to know a modification that makes the text bigger in places like the map ( where the industires are listed ) and similar?
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01:39<yrol>its so tiny, i have to recharge my electron molecular microscope every 2 hours :o(
01:40<yrol>or i have to get so close to the screen ,taht i have snot all over it
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01:52<yrol>Pinkbeast, hellO?
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02:22<@Terkhen>good morning
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02:26<yrol>good morning Terkhen
02:59<@Terkhen>hi Lachie
03:01<Lachie>what's new?
03:02<@Terkhen>not much for me :P
03:05<Lachie>fair enough. I'm just making a grf compatible with these new vehicle flipping rules in OTTD
03:06<@Terkhen>nice :)
03:10<dihedral>morning Terkhen & planetmaker
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03:15<@Terkhen>hi dihedral
03:19<Lachie>winrar. getting a hold of this coding thing again
03:24<@Terkhen>winrar code? :P
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04:55<@Terkhen>hi appe_
04:56<__ln__>hi appe_ & Terkhen & dihedral & Lachie
04:56<@Terkhen>hi to you too :P
04:58<@planetmaker>halos ;-)
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06:20<@planetmaker> <-- a new transparency setting? :-)
06:21<peter1139>and non-opengfx? :p
06:21<@planetmaker>has bad luck
06:21<@planetmaker>I can't provide non-grid tiles for that
06:21<@planetmaker>I must not
06:22<peter1139>new action 5?
06:22<@planetmaker>they'd have that option, if they use the non-grid base tiles newgrf as static newgrf, though
06:22<@planetmaker>but action5 which provides the grid lines
06:22<@planetmaker>checkout the dir of that png
06:22<@planetmaker>it contains the patch queue
06:24<@planetmaker>for unchanged base sets the transparency setting toggles light grid lines and darker grid liens
06:25<@planetmaker>you can test the effect if you use a non-grid newgrf, like ogfx+landscape or nogrid land
06:26<@planetmaker>I think the composite patch is currently not exactly up to date. I forgot to update it
06:27<b_jonas>if you're adding new buttons to transparency options, add one for hiding the railway fences too, and make the transparent industry button hide the smoke of power stations as well :-)
06:28<@planetmaker>That's an entirely different patch
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06:28<@planetmaker>two different patches actually
06:28<@planetmaker>and... isn't the smoke hidden in trunk?
06:29<b_jonas>planetmaker: I don't know, I haven't checked trunk for that
06:29<@planetmaker>then do that :-P
06:31<XeryusTC>b_jonas: railway fences can be hidden by turning full detail off under the wrench menu
06:31<XeryusTC>or the cog in ogfx
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06:37<@planetmaker>he's right, though. Transparency settings could use an overhaul. But the last attempt failed on detrimental desires which could not be accomodated consistently ;-)
06:37<@planetmaker>thus nothing was changed ;-)
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06:48<b_jonas>XeryusTC: yes, I know full detail works, but that should be on the toolbar
06:49<b_jonas>the smoke is more difficult, there's currently no way to hide it
06:49<@planetmaker>full animation should then go there, too. And town names. And signs. And ...
06:49<@planetmaker>b_jonas, as said: did you check trunk. Do that, if you didn't.
06:49<b_jonas>yes, I'll check trunk
06:50<b_jonas>should I be use opengfx 0.3.5 release with trunk?
06:50<@planetmaker>0.3.7 actually
06:50<b_jonas>I'll get that
06:50<b_jonas>but stable is okay, right?
06:51<b_jonas>I mean, I don't need an unreleased opengfx
06:51<@Yexo>when industries are transparant the smoke from the powerplant is completely hidden
06:51<@Yexo>in openttd trunk
06:52<b_jonas>there's yet one would-be-nice feature I'd like for transparency, but that's difficult because it involves drawing stuff
06:52<b_jonas>a way to show trees in such a way that you can see which squares have trees but without them covering stuff behind
06:53<@planetmaker>that'd not involve much drawing
06:54<b_jonas>maybe, but drawing small things like tree trunks can be more difficult than drawing huge buildings
06:54<@planetmaker>they basically exist already ;-)
06:54<@planetmaker>for the tranparency of the forest
06:54<@planetmaker>as its ground tile
06:55<@planetmaker>anyway, the main thing there is the coding work
06:55<@planetmaker>and yes, makes sense
06:56<b_jonas>yeah, something like those trunks could work
06:56<b_jonas>but it's not that easy
06:56<b_jonas>because you need graphics for them on sloped tiles too
06:56<b_jonas>and for rough terrain and snow etc
06:56<b_jonas>you can't use just the forest tiles
06:56<b_jonas>but they might provide inspiration
06:56<@planetmaker>they could simply be used as overly as the trees are used
06:57<b_jonas>let's see, I'll build a trunk
06:57<@planetmaker>anyway, just providing sprites with different ground is... dead easy ;-) Just means to export different layers of the graphics file :-P
06:58<b_jonas>Yexo: thanks for checking by the way
06:58<@planetmaker>b_jonas, why do you think I told you to check trunk? >:-|
07:03<b_jonas>I'm building trunk now
07:08<b_jonas>indeed, in the trunk, hiding the smokes from the power station works
07:23<b_jonas>is it true that a bribe increases town ratings enough to build a station no matter whether the bribe is successful?
07:24<b_jonas>this appears to claim that:
07:24<@planetmaker>not true
07:28<b_jonas>to increase ratings in a station, can I just use a truck that picks up cargo and drops it in a very close station, then carries it back to the original station?
07:46<Korenn>b_jonas: it might
07:46<Korenn>since I don't think it cares about transferring
07:47<Korenn>you might even be able to drop it off at the same station immediately ;)
07:50<b_jonas>I might even try to transfer it to a different station (without bringing back) and run the trains from that second station
07:50<b_jonas>because cargo waiting on a station also hurts the rating
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08:03<b_jonas>also, could we have price estimates work even while paused, even if you could only do the actual operation when unpaused?
08:06<@Yexo>b_jonas: you don't need the second station to increase the ratings on the first one
08:07<b_jonas>Yexo: I need the second station if I also want to use the rating bonus for no or little cargo waiting on the station
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08:08<@Yexo>ir make more trains instead to achieve that
08:08<@planetmaker>not necessarily. Just have a train load
08:09<@planetmaker>or sufficient trains to load (and transport away) the stuff
08:10<@planetmaker>i.e. always have one (or more) trains load so that the station remains empty
08:10<@planetmaker>still. No tactic will help you, you you have a monthly turn-over of a few 10k cargo units
08:11<@planetmaker>As then the average cargo amount will still be too high, even if you manage to transport everything
08:11<b_jonas>planetmaker: but if I transport every cargo to a second station very close, won't that help me?
08:11<@planetmaker>if you can transport it anywhere you can also transport it to the real destination
08:12<@planetmaker>so: no
08:12<@planetmaker>if a short distance travel helps you, more vehicles for the real route also could help you
08:13<@planetmaker>still, sometimes this local transport can be helpful. But then you have possibly the same station rating problem at the transfer station...
08:13<b_jonas>why, I can transport to a short distance with much fewer vehicles, right?
08:13<@planetmaker>so the problem just moved one station further
08:13<b_jonas>why does the station rating matter at the transfer station?
08:13<@planetmaker>cargo there will also decay...
08:13<@Yexo>b_jonas: in almost all cases the problem is not the amount of vehicles (you can always build more) but the capacity of the original station
08:13<@planetmaker>and it also influences town rating
08:14<@Yexo>station rating doesn't influence town rating
08:14<@Yexo>nor does amount of cargo waiting
08:14<b_jonas>hmm, cargo decay, true
08:14<@planetmaker>it influences the cargo decay
08:14<@planetmaker>which directly relates to waiting cargo
08:16<b_jonas>still, even with the cargo decay I think it might sometimes be worth
08:16<b_jonas>I get more cargo from the industry
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08:21<@planetmaker>you get the same, if you have a train load constantly....
08:21<@planetmaker>with full load orders
08:22<b_jonas>but the train can't constantly be in the station. you need multiple trains for that, possibly many if the destination is far away
08:22<@planetmaker>yes. so?
08:22<@planetmaker>you need to transport that cargo anyway, don't you?
08:23<@planetmaker>thus you need at least two trains, yes. But...?
08:23<b_jonas>no, I don't need to transport all the cargo
08:23<b_jonas>I can transport cargo with just one train
08:24<b_jonas>but still want a high enough rating that when the train arrives to the source station, that station already has a trainful of cargo
08:24<b_jonas>or I might want the station rating high just so an opponent gets less cargo from the same industry
08:24<@planetmaker>if that's to be the case you can just as well use two trains
08:25<@planetmaker>as it means one full load time = travel time
08:25<@planetmaker>and it means you can skip on the overhead of caring for the vehicles and a 2nd station
08:26<b_jonas>two trains might not be enough
08:26<b_jonas>but I guess you convinced me
08:26<b_jonas>this trick is rarely useful probably
08:27<b_jonas>I'll have to test
08:27<@planetmaker>it makes sense for very low production industries
08:27<@planetmaker>then the frequency of pickup is increased, if you transport by RV
08:28<@planetmaker>and shipping that to a somewhat regional hub which gets supplied by several such small suppliers
08:29<@planetmaker>but for any "normal" industry you'd quickly have dozens of RV just shuttling cargo. Not helpful, usually
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08:47<b_jonas>it's 1930! I must find all my bridges and replace them.
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08:49<b_jonas>wow, it's possible to replace road bridges under road vehicles?
08:49<b_jonas>nice technology
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09:01<@Terkhen>it shouldn't be possible
09:01<@Terkhen>what version are you using?
09:02<b_jonas>Terkhen: 1.1.3
09:02<b_jonas>it's possible even under a train
09:02<b_jonas>I just replaced a bridge under a train to wooden, and the train immediately slowed down to 32 km/h
09:02<Elukka>sounds good to me
09:04<@planetmaker>Terkhen, iirc it should be possible
09:04<b_jonas>I'll point out to this next time they close a bridge for months for repairs
09:05<b_jonas>I'll ask them to hotswap the bridge under my car instead
09:05<b_jonas>it doesn't even seem to cost extra
09:05<@planetmaker>Terkhen, otherwise a competitor could block you from doing so forever
09:05<@Yexo>that doesn't hold for rail bridges
09:05<@planetmaker>yes, they can (and iirc are) handled differently there
09:05<b_jonas>planetmaker: a competitor can do lots of other evil things with road
09:05<Elukka>why shouldn't it be possible , anyway?
09:06<@Terkhen>yes, that makes sense for road vehicles
09:06<Elukka>seems like a useful feature to me
09:06<@Terkhen>but not much for rail :P
09:07<@Yexo>you can also convert normal rail to electrified rail while there is a train on it
09:07<b_jonas>Yexo: heh, point
09:07<@planetmaker>iirc you couldn't do that always. That was quite ugly
09:07<@Yexo>indeed, that changed not too long ago
09:08<b_jonas>Yexo: but that doesn't make your train to immediately change speed, so it's easier to imagine it as being delayed to after the train in reality
09:08<b_jonas>the trains actually start to accelerate on the bridge if I replace it to a faster bridge
09:08<@planetmaker>as do cars
09:09<@planetmaker>they usually just accelerate much faster
09:13<b_jonas>hmm, could a newgrf define a "soldiers" cargo type that you couldn't carry on bridges or aquaducts?
09:15<@planetmaker>soldiers on train or truck don't hurt bridges either ;-)
09:15<b_jonas>planetmaker: it's not the soldiers that do, it's the war
09:15<b_jonas>the war effectively destroys all the bridges
09:15<peter1139>if the bridge is destroyed then they won't go on it :p
09:16<@planetmaker>so your problem rather is: don't build bridges and de-struct all existing ones
09:16<@planetmaker>you can do that
09:16<@planetmaker>ill-posed question :-P
09:17<b_jonas>right, maybe in a wartime grf, bridges would be banned altogether, no matter the cargo
09:20<@planetmaker>ttd is a peaceful game anyway :-)
09:21<b_jonas>yep, except when I start to trap the road vehicles of an AI opponent
09:22<b_jonas>and then destroying them by running over them with a train!
09:22<b_jonas>boom boom boom!
09:22<b_jonas>sure, that breaks my station ratings too
09:22<b_jonas>one-way roads makes this easier than in ttdp
09:22<@Terkhen>that's not how wars are usually fought
09:23<Elukka>i think the real issue with wars in ttd would be that it's just not very entertaining to redesign your entire network for a temporary situation
09:23<Elukka>and then redesign it again when it's over
09:24<b_jonas>hmm, could it be worth to transport grain and livestock in separate trains just because UKRS allows faster max speed on one of them?
09:24<b_jonas>Elukka: you'd just simulate continuous war
09:24<b_jonas>you loaded a war grf, played the whole game under war
09:24<Elukka>that sure would be a long war
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09:25<b_jonas>come on, time is not to scale in ottd anyway
09:26<Elukka>well i do think different kinds of scenarios with grfs to complement them could be interesting
09:28<Elukka>war seems, gameplay wise, anathema to a game that relies on stable economic conditions and business going as usual
09:28<Pinkbeast>I think it's worth transporting grain and livestock in separate trains _anyway_ because of the ease of running them fully loaded, provided that a small enough locomotive is available to make that economical.
09:29<b_jonas>running them in the same train increases cargo rating because they'er in the source station more frequently
09:29<@planetmaker>wild west economy: transport hunters and settlers one-way. And buffalo meat and bear hide the other ;-)
09:29<b_jonas>planetmaker: heh
09:30<Pinkbeast>Yeah, but if I run joint farm trains I'm always finding I want to adjust the consists for a bunch of trains which OTTD makes into a royal PITA.
09:30<Elukka>see, something like a wild west scenario could be interesting
09:30<@planetmaker>btw... does anyone feel like drawing fields?
09:30<@planetmaker>Like rice fields? Or... whatever grows in tropical climate?
09:30<@planetmaker>including all the usual growth stages the fields currently have?
09:30<Elukka>pinkbeast: you can always 'full load all cargo'
09:31<b_jonas>planetmaker: also, the buffalos exist as road vehicles that you must use to migrate hoards of buffalo cargo between their winter and summer places, which produces you buffalo meat cargo
09:31<Pinkbeast>Elukka> No help - now the cargo I have too much of is piling up.
09:31<Elukka>well, true
09:32<@planetmaker>probably it should remain something recognizable as 'grain', though. Given the cargo from farms
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09:32<Pinkbeast>Fundamentally if the relative ratios of production change, I want to change my rolling stock to match, and this is a pain, and OTTD does not well represent the sort of situation where an industry with low production is served by a mixed traffic locomotive which has multiple duties.
09:33<b_jonas>Pinkbeast: I think a farm always changes the production of grain and livestock together
09:33<@planetmaker>how could it be made better / easier?
09:33<b_jonas>you can't have a farm producing much more of one than the other
09:33<Pinkbeast>jonas> Then you are wrong.
09:33<b_jonas>maybe it depends on the settings
09:33<Elukka>planetmaker: what do you need the fields for?
09:34<b_jonas>I'm not using the "smooth economy"
09:34<b_jonas>planetmaker: the Japanese landscape grf has some fields, but they're not perfect
09:34<@planetmaker>Elukka, we could get different fields for different climates. In either OpenGFX+ Landscape. Or maybe also directly in OpenGFX
09:34<Pinkbeast>planetmaker> What I've been thinking of is a facility to nominate a "master train" in a group (and I know that improving grouping facilities is on the list).
09:34<@planetmaker>b_jonas, they don't fit this purpose. Yes, I know them
09:34<b_jonas>in particular, it would be nice to have Indonesian style terraced rice fields
09:34<Pinkbeast>Then have a way to say for a group "make all trains like the master train".
09:35<Pinkbeast>This would trump all autoreplace orders, which would then be effective only on the master train.
09:35<Elukka>the tropical climate in ttd doesn't really strike me as a climate where rice would be grown
09:35<Elukka>and i still think the grass is way too blue in opengfx :P
09:35<Pinkbeast>So then I take the master train to the depot manually, remove a grain hopper, add a livestock van, and bingo.
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09:35<b_jonas>Elukka: I'm rather thinking of temparate
09:35<b_jonas>with a grf
09:36<Elukka>i suppose that would be quite possible
09:36<Pinkbeast>This also handles extending trains in response to more powerful locomotives very neatly
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09:55<Elukka>Eddi|zuHause: something's odd with the 4 axle wagon sprites in the newest release (tried it on the newest nightly)
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: yes, random liveries are broken
09:56<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: it's a problem with nml
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10:19<__ln__>is there openttd for MeeGo?
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>did you try to compile one?
10:20<__ln__>nope, i haven't gotten as far as installing the development tools.
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>if you find an SDL port, there's quite some probability that it will Just Work(tm).
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>(with maybe some usability problems wrt input devices)
10:21<__ln__>i was just about to ask how does it handle showing and not showing the on-screen keyboard
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>OSD shows when you click into an input box
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10:37<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I just wonder, did you get a private IRC message from me? (about half an hour ago)
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>did you expect an answer?
10:38<@planetmaker>It made me wonder whether you received it at all
10:39<@planetmaker>so, I guess. Yes, I did ;-)
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11:45<DanMacK>Is the rotation ability for airports in the latest trunk nightly?
11:48<andythenorth>open source warcraft 1 anyone?
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but only when you have an appropriate grf
11:48<@Terkhen>it should, check OpenGFX+ Airports
11:48<Xaroth>andythenorth: why would anybody do that, if there's dune?
11:48<DanMacK>I have the grf, but for some reason, rotation's not an option
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11:49<@planetmaker>it needs to be explicitly supported by the airports NewGRF
11:49<@planetmaker>where there only is one: OpenGFX+ Airports. At least to my knowledge
11:49<@planetmaker>and welcome, DanMacK :-)
11:50<@planetmaker>and rotation is selected via the small arrows in the "view". It's not directly largely announced
11:50<DanMacK>that's what I thought, but tthey're greyed out...
11:51<DanMacK>would help if the grf was active in the scenario :/
11:51<@planetmaker>being active is quite a pre-condition, yes ;-)
11:52<@planetmaker>you'll not have luck with stable OpenTTD. You'll need to have to grab a nightly OpenTTD
11:52<@planetmaker>It uses some new NewGRF features which are not in stable
11:53*DanMacK always uses the nightlies
11:53<@planetmaker>good :-)
11:59<DanMacK>So... I'm an idiot :P
12:00<DanMacK>Also, any seaplane airports yet??
12:04<TrueBrain>DanMacK: be careful with those statements, it can be used against you :D:D
12:07<Eddi|zuHause>DanMacK: it should be possible to recode the small airport as seaplane port, but you won't get to differentiate between aircraft types, so all planes could land there
12:08<DanMacK>so short answer... no
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12:09<DanMacK>Av8 2.0 will have a few, that's why I'm asking
12:09<@planetmaker>You can. You just have to trust the player to send only the right planes there
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12:09<@Terkhen>"trust the player" <--- heh
12:09<DanMacK>how soon before we can see actual seaplane ports?
12:09<@planetmaker>Yes it will. And if you give me (or zero.eight or y3xo) the sprites, we'll happily include a seaport version
12:10<@planetmaker>which still would have this limitation that it's "just another small airport"
12:10<@Yexo>I"m not sure that's actually possible planetmaker
12:10<@Yexo>unless all tiles would be at sea level
12:10<@planetmaker>Yexo: would be fine enough, I guess
12:11<@planetmaker>Though building it on the shore would be nicer, I didn't test the exact options so far, though
12:13<@planetmaker>Yexo: but even if it's only a "normal small airport on sea tiles" it IMHO would be a good thing to spark some interest
12:13<@Yexo>spark interest in what exactly?
12:13<@planetmaker>(if with adequate graphics supplied which match a sea port)
12:13<@planetmaker>in more diverse airports :-)
12:14<@Yexo>I think there is enough interest in that already
12:14<@planetmaker>and it'd be a case to demonstrate of what's also feasible
12:14<@Yexo>the problem now being newgrf airports still not done
12:14<@planetmaker>yes... and we're no wizards nor do our days have 48 hours. I know :S
12:15<@planetmaker>as usual there's many more interesting projects than time :-)
12:18<TrueBrain>we should move the orbit of the earth to get 48h days :D
12:18<TrueBrain>not that it would help .... but the idea is nice :P
12:18<TrueBrain>so cold, so cold
12:19<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: what does the orbit have to do with the day length?
12:19<@planetmaker>shame, shame ;-)
12:19<@planetmaker>(think of 25.5 hours of Mars) ;-)
12:20<b_jonas>reminds me to Jules Verne's novel Hector Servadac
12:20<b_jonas>where they get 12 hour long days first, then 6 hour long days
12:20<b_jonas>also a double long year
12:23<@Belugas>muwhahaha!!! I'm glad we have an astronomist with us :D
12:23<@planetmaker>astronomer or astrophysicst. Whatever you want ;-)
12:24<@planetmaker>"My" institute calls it "extraterrestrial physics"
12:25<@Terkhen>so other planets have different physics? :P
12:25<@planetmaker>"extraterrestrial" only means the "physics of things not on Earth"
12:25<b_jonas>Terkhen: no, it's a ploy to get more funding
12:26<@Terkhen>a ploy makes sense :)
12:26<@planetmaker>b_jonas: no. astrophysics actually is wrong. Our field of research is not stars
12:26<@planetmaker>which _astro_ would imply
12:27<@planetmaker>thus the naming is simply correcter than the more common "astrophysics" or "astronomy".
12:28<@planetmaker>As most such institutes bear "astro"* correclty also in their name
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12:28<@planetmaker>and "planetology" wouldn't cover it either ;-)
12:28<TrueBrain>planetmaker: :D:D:D I am well aware, just liked the comment :P
12:28<@planetmaker>I know you (should) know ;-)
12:29<b_jonas>so are you one of those people that search for exoplanets?
12:29<TrueBrain>we have telescopes doing that :P
12:29<@planetmaker>b_jonas: no
12:29<@Belugas>he knows you know
12:29<@planetmaker>I build planets. In my labs ;-)
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>"planetology" sounds wrong...
12:30<@planetmaker>my nick speaks truth ;-)
12:30<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: it's correct, though
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12:30<TrueBrain>planetmaker: how big of a planets? :D
12:30<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: I, personally? 100µm :-P
12:30<@planetmaker>ok. 500µm
12:31<@planetmaker>But we reached already 10cm ;-)
12:32<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: planet + logos = planet science
12:32<b_jonas>planetmaker: ah, you work for Magrathea
12:32<TrueBrain>normal people call them balls btw :)
12:32<@planetmaker>b_jonas: ehm... no?
12:32*planetmaker wonders what magrathea now is
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>given current progress, how long until you have several thousand km?
12:32<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: 5000 years
12:32<TrueBrain>planetmaker: you don't know Magrathea?!
12:33<TrueBrain>that woudl seriously shock me tbh
12:33*KenjiE20 writes his name in a glacier
12:33<TrueBrain>remind me when we have a BBQ next time I should bring you a book :P
12:33<Prof_Frink>I thought planetmaker *was* Slartibartfast.
12:33<@Terkhen>finding an unknown planet and claiming that you created it would be faster
12:33<@planetmaker>hm... I should :-)
12:34<@planetmaker>I totally forgot about that. Gotcha ;-)
12:34<TrueBrain>bad planetmaker, bad bad bad planetmaker :P
12:35<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that's a serious faux pas :p
12:36<@planetmaker>quite :-)
12:36<TrueBrain>btw, planetmaker, what do you think about the fact we can now travel faster than light?
12:37<@planetmaker>hahahaha :-)
12:37<TrueBrain>or about the 730km long tunnel we hav ethrough our earth?!
12:38<Rubidium>TrueBrain: they didn't prove moving faster than light, or at least they haven't disproving there being a wormhole ;)
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>hey, when the italian ministery of education says they built it, who are we to question them!
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>maybe previous measurements of speed of light were just wrong :)
12:38<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: speed of light is... a definition meanwhile ;-)
12:38<TrueBrain>Rubidium: lets just keep it on a relativistic correction error, shall we? Easier :)
12:39<@Terkhen>maybe lightspeed has been slacking until now
12:39<@planetmaker>Rubidium: but it has been proven that a wormhole immediately collapses upon contact with matter ;-)
12:40<TrueBrain>planetmaker: well, they were wrong about dark matter too, so ...
12:40<@planetmaker>(yes, they can exist in perfect vaccum)
12:40<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: but what about the neutrino measurements from 1987a?
12:40<TrueBrain>dirty lens :P
12:40<@planetmaker>They arrived concurrently with the light. Not two years earlier
12:40<TrueBrain>and the Italian .. they just cant read clock
12:40<@planetmaker>well... but the callender?
12:41<TrueBrain>they are Italian, can you be sure about anything?! :)
12:41<TrueBrain>I mean, they did build a tunnel of 700+km! :P
12:41<@planetmaker>Probably Berlusconi intervened :-P
12:41<TrueBrain>sorry, I am trolling :)
12:43<TrueBrain>the whole bla about FTL just makes me giggle
12:43<TrueBrain>many of my friends come to me: they have proven FTL exists!!
12:43<TrueBrain>like ... dude ... seriously ...
12:44<TrueBrain>next you are going to tell me we have a black president
12:45<peter1138>For The Lose
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12:47<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: my lecturers on general relativity were meinel and neugebauer:
12:47<@planetmaker>I trust them if they say that wormholes can exists - if there's no matter around
12:48<TrueBrain>a paper from 1995? Really? :D
12:48<@planetmaker>I just googled for their names and field equations ;-)
12:49<TrueBrain>but yeah, I trust you on that claim, without question :)
12:49<valhallasw>ooooh physics
12:49<@planetmaker>if they found one solution to them, they should know roughly what they do ;-)
12:49<TrueBrain>I was just refering to the recent discovery Dark Matter does not do what they thought it would :)
12:49<TrueBrain>one of the reason I love this field
12:49<@planetmaker>quantum gravity is bound to give us surprises for sure anyway...
12:50<TrueBrain>what is true this year, can be old next year
12:50<TrueBrain>and hello mister valhallasw
12:50<valhallasw>bonjour monsieur TrueBrain
12:50<TrueBrain>it has been a while
12:50<TrueBrain>you already earned your titles by now, or still battling for them? :)
12:51<valhallasw>nah, I'm in Paris for my last internship
12:51<TrueBrain>nice pick :)
12:51<TrueBrain>What field?
12:51<valhallasw>and it's raining here -_-'
12:51<valhallasw>granular matter
12:51<TrueBrain>hahaha :D
12:51<valhallasw>specifically: droplet detachment of suspensions
12:51<TrueBrain>how did you manage to get out of the country without upsetting .... most of hte professors? :D
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: the funny thing is that it's just a bunch of wild theories, nobody has a clue how to actually prove or disprove them
12:52<valhallasw>I'm not sure why it would upset people...?
12:52<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: Dark Matter, the current theory, has been disproven this week. Followup surveys are needed of course, but they observed something different than the theory predicted
12:53<TrueBrain>valhallasw: they strongly suggested we shouldnt go outside the Netherlands in my time :P
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: over the course of histories, disproval of theories is known to have pushed science a good way forward
12:53<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: it always does. Proving is impossible (most of the time), disproving moves you forward
12:54<TrueBrain>valhallasw: but so you are almost done; nice :D Concratz on that ;)
12:54<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: the theories may be less wild than one might assume ;-)
12:54<valhallasw>TrueBrain: hm, no idea. I just asked my the prof from my first research (Van Hecke) if he had some ideas on labs
12:55<TrueBrain>planetmaker: Dark Matter and co are wild for most people on the world I guess ;)
12:55<@planetmaker>and the difference between theory and hypothesis is exactly "can be tested" and "can't be tested"
12:55<valhallasw>and I mostly did not care too much about study advisors and other annoying bureaucrats
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>what actually happened to the guys that proclaimed they might have found a new natural force?
12:55<TrueBrain>valhallasw: you will do fine in this branch of science :D :P
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12:56<TrueBrain>and LordAro joins in force
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12:56<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: there you have your new natural force :D
12:56<LordAro>hi Truebrain
12:56<LordAro>sorry - pressed on the icon twice, apparently
12:56<TrueBrain>topic of today: science, (astro)physics to be exact ;)
12:57<TrueBrain>planetmaker just told us he is going to send us all our own planet
12:57<@planetmaker>yeah. Instant planets. You'll have to feed it to grow to proper size :-D
12:57<TrueBrain>would be scary :P
12:57<valhallasw>Just add water.
12:57<TrueBrain>what do you feed them after, say, 1km ?
12:58<@planetmaker>siblings ;-)
12:58<@planetmaker>or get your own asteroids and comets
12:58<TrueBrain>where do you hide it from your mom
12:58<@planetmaker>ah. It's inflatable. Under your bed will do.
12:58<b_jonas>smaller planets
12:58<TrueBrain>well, one day we had a near-miss with a comet, the other day it was not even close ..
12:58<TrueBrain>how do I know when to put my planet out there?!
12:58<b_jonas>I mean, you feed it smaller planets
12:59<KenjiE20>pfft, feed, just roll them like katamari's :p
12:59<TrueBrain>now you just make me hungry
12:59<valhallasw>TrueBrain: it will just be returned to sender when it's impossible to reach the intended destination.
13:00<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: these passages are usually announced. Just listen to your favourite news station
13:00<TrueBrain>NASA doesn't track all near-orbit objects
13:00<@planetmaker>And buy an Ariane V heavy to get it there ;-)
13:00<TrueBrain>they try to
13:00<TrueBrain>but they don't :P
13:01<TrueBrain>hihi, don't put a monkey in it, it might not come back :D
13:01<@planetmaker>well... it's hard. Ephemerides calculations in N-body simulations with many more unknowns... challenging ;-)
13:01<TrueBrain>poor monkey .. then you live in Iran, which is sad enough, and then you are send in space to die? It is so sad ...
13:02<TrueBrain>challenging doesn't describe it :)
13:02<TrueBrain>I mean, we can't even tell if Eris or Pluto is bigger ...
13:02<@planetmaker>Pluto... this inflated-ego dwarf planet
13:02<@planetmaker>who gives a shit? ;-)
13:03<TrueBrain>well, it scares me, that we can't even tell how big something is this 'close' to us
13:03<TrueBrain>hahahaha :D
13:04<TrueBrain>owh, that is a really good one :D
13:04<@planetmaker>yeah... we had it as background of our conference laptop a few years back.
13:04<@planetmaker>I don't know anymore how many people asked me for that image ;-)
13:05<TrueBrain>hmm ..
13:05*TrueBrain ponders adding Cloud9 to OpenTTD dev-space
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i immediately loved that picture back then
13:10<Eddi|zuHause>such details like the inclination of uranus :)
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13:11<@planetmaker>yes it has a lot of detail which is not easily visible ;-)
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>have they found a replacement yet for "Mein Vater Erklärt Mir Jeden Sonntag Unsere Neun Planeten"?
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23037 /trunk/src/lang/italian.txt:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 3 changes by Snail_
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13:57<CIA-6>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r23038 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix: Check that the selected font size is valid the font face in use and choose the nearest size to that selected if not. Font metrics should then just work.
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15:18<andythenorth>one day, I'll go too far in the BROS thread :P
15:19<Pinkbeast>But not today?
15:19<andythenorth>that remains to be seen
15:20<Pinkbeast>I was gently pleased with myself for keeping my mouth shut when the P1 SIM guy turned out to be writing a book about how to do an utterly impossible project.
15:23<Rubidium>I must have missed that post/thread :(
15:24<andythenorth>Rubidium: you could enjoin the BROS thread :P
15:25<Rubidium>oh, I didn't miss it
15:26<Rubidium>it's just long-ish ago
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15:26<Rubidium>using word for a book... he really is going to do it completely and utterly alone, is he?
15:26<Rubidium>and I guess he needed a few hours more forced LaTeX usage before he understood what we were about
15:28<Rubidium>but then I've made ~30 people very happy LaTeX users by forcing it through their throat for a project (together with VCS). When we were at about 25% of the project they already were happy I pushed it.
15:28<Rubidium>though I guess smallfly is like andythenorth's junior devs
15:28<andythenorth>they are no longer my junior devs
15:29<andythenorth>mostly they are now someone else's well trained non-junior dev, or someone else's problem :D
15:29<@planetmaker>no longer your devs? or no longer junior? ;-)
15:30<peter1138>hmm, crap
15:30<peter1138>so apparently i've got a font that has one valid size, 13
15:30<peter1138>so we chose 13
15:30<peter1138>and it says it's an invalid size
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15:33<andythenorth>13 is unlucky
15:33<andythenorth>I provide employment contracts that forbid the use of v13, etc
15:33<andythenorth>you have to use 12a, or skip 13
15:33<andythenorth>in version control, you should make an empty commit for r13
15:34<andythenorth>this fear of 13 is not entirely grounded
15:34<Rubidium>I'd call it 1π ;)
15:34<andythenorth>as my birthday is the 13th :P
15:35<@Terkhen>andythenorth: you should stop trying to change them
15:36<@Terkhen>what project will you use as an example to explain why VCS is useful then?
15:36<Rubidium>andythenorth: do you also forbid all version numbers that start with a 5 followed by a lucky number? As well as version 4?
15:37<andythenorth>Rubidium: no, but if you explain it to me, I might (please don't explain)
15:37*andythenorth also has a serious magpie problem
15:37<@Terkhen>what's that?
15:39<andythenorth>the magpie rhyme?
15:39<Rubidium>a magpie is a lovely bird, isn't it? ;)
15:39*peter1138 still grumbles at FreeType
15:40<supermop_>still cant get any margaret calvert fonts to work?
15:40<Rubidium>in any case... I won't say that 4 sounds like death (in quite a lot of Asian languages) and I won't say that 5 sounds like not (in Cantonese)
15:41<peter1138>no, dealing with bitmap fonts now
15:41<peter1138>Could not choose font size 16, nor best match 7x13. FreeType reported error 0x17
15:41<peter1138>0x17 means invalid font size
15:42<peter1138>7x13 is a font size that freetype earlier said was valid...
15:44<andythenorth>good night
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15:51<LordAro>this libtimidity thing is weird - on self-compiled version, while loading grfs, music is fine, after that, it goes weird again
15:53<LordAro>and now, it's weird (but not as weird as normal) while loading grfs :)
15:53<@Terkhen>weird how?
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15:53<LordAro>don't really know how to describe it
15:54<LordAro>sort of 'scratchy'
15:54<LordAro>the problem is to do with timidity/libtimidity on ubuntu 11.10, so don't worry too much :)
15:55<Rubidium>ah... Ubuntu, there where OpenTTD's upstream is an AI...
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16:05<LordAro>wait, what?
16:05<peter1138>how odd
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16:26<DDR_>Stupid text input boxes. -_-
16:27<@SmatZ>time to change your password
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>interesting password indeed :)
16:28<__ln__>is this the first time ever DDR says something?
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16:30<Eddi|zuHause>almost :p
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16:35<peter1138>DDR_ is 71?
16:45<DDR_>Luckily, not my password for much.
16:46<DDR_>Nah, thought I was typing into the popup password box, for some reason cursor was still in IRC. :/
16:48<@Belugas>ho yeah baby, remove it... come on... here's 5$ for you
16:48<@Belugas>oops.. sorry...
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16:54<@planetmaker>good night
16:55<@Terkhen>good night
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17:21<z-MaTRiX>SmatZ<< \o/
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18:15<Madey>hey everyone
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18:19<TrueBrain>hello mister I say hello and leave
18:19<TrueBrain>*sad panda*
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18:27<TrueBrain>derp derp
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18:36<z-MaTRiX>downloading superman
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---Logclosed Wed Oct 19 00:00:47 2011