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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-10-21

---Logopened Fri Oct 21 00:00:58 2011
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02:31<@Terkhen>good morning
02:33<@peter1138>hello good sir
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03:04<@planetmaker>moin
03:04<andythenorth>hola
03:04<andythenorth>and also ciao
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03:10<Zuu>elo and ood bye ;-)
03:10<@planetmaker>:-) helo Zuu
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03:30<lugo>Eddi|zuHause2: i like the idea of that fence patch very much, but i for one couldn't contribute anything useful to that thread so no activity there doesn't mean that it isn't interesting
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04:12<Eddi|zuHause>we might need an installer for these "stupid" mac folks...
04:13<@planetmaker>yes. But all other folks do have an installer
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04:17<z-MaTRiX>hi
04:17<z-MaTRiX>:)
04:17<@planetmaker>hi
04:17<z-MaTRiX>hah coolness, plant looks white in IR
04:17<z-MaTRiX>:)
04:18<z-MaTRiX>http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/01/11/40-incredible-near-infrared-photos/
04:18<z-MaTRiX>like on some pics here
04:19<@planetmaker>I think you mentioned that yesterday, yes :-P
04:19<z-MaTRiX>just tried it now
04:20<@peter1138>http://www.flickr.com/photos/vgm8383/2176897085/lightbox/
04:20<@peter1138>^ HDR done badly
04:21<@planetmaker>it's not a photographic impression...
04:22<@peter1138>hmm?
04:23<Eddi|zuHause>z-MaTRiX: you realize that "white" is just an illusion suggested by the developed photo. just like black/white film
04:23<@planetmaker>the colour contrast is different in different parts
04:24<@planetmaker>but it's not necessarily a bad image
04:24<z-MaTRiX>well i have webcam
04:24<z-MaTRiX>:)
04:24<Ammler>planetmaker: linux has installer?
04:24<@planetmaker>it's called package manager
04:25<z-MaTRiX>installer?
04:25<Ammler>but not made by openttd :-)
04:25<z-MaTRiX>well it can be installed using a bashscript
04:25<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: mac has an app store :p
04:25<z-MaTRiX>perlscript anaconda or binary executable
04:26<@planetmaker>peter1138: I'd not have made the sky that dark, granted. And the 2nd attempt also looks better from that guy
04:27<@peter1138>it ends up too noisy, and too saturated
04:27<@planetmaker>mostly the latter
04:28<@planetmaker>http://www.flickr.com/photos/vgm8383/2371803132/ <-- better
04:28<@peter1138>it ends up looking like multiple pictures pasted together, heh
04:29<@planetmaker>well... HDR _is_ multiple pictures pasted together ;-)
04:29<@peter1138>true :p
04:29<z-MaTRiX>ah i have found my long lost 1W uv led
04:29<z-MaTRiX>was searching it about 14 month
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04:39<@planetmaker>z-MaTRiX: you really care to search months for a 1 or two dollar item which is readily available cots?
05:08<FFLaguna>Is it possible to set the flow of time slower in-game?
05:08<FFLaguna>Like... trains, planes, and automobiles travel at the same real-time speed, but the date progresses more slowly?
05:08<MINM>nope, sorry
05:09<FFLaguna>So not much chance for multi-day maps, then
05:09<MINM>though I say that's a pretty good idea, I myself kinda wish for that too
05:11<Eddi|zuHause>well... there's about a dozen daylength patches :p
05:12<FFLaguna>Hmmmm
05:12<FFLaguna>Any suggestions on a good daylength patch, then?
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>a good one would have ended up in trunk by now
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>but it's near impossible to provide a good one
05:14<FFLaguna>Oh :(
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05:15<lugo>whatever was integrated in Chills Patch Pack worked like charm for me
05:16<lugo>whatever daylength patch i mean
05:16<lugo>i only used multiplactors 2x or 3x though
05:18<FFLaguna>If I patch in a daylength mod, such as this one http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=42432 , and I'm the server host, is that good enough? Or do my clients need the same patch, as well?
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05:19<@planetmaker>clients need the same
05:19<@planetmaker>as soon as something changes how the game progresses, all people need the same patched version
05:19<FFLaguna>Thank you
05:30<z-MaTRiX>planetmaker<< actually its $10+ :) but everything will be found if i throw out unneded things
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05:57<z-MaTRiX>:)
05:57<z-MaTRiX>In essence, the optical pickup is an electronically steered and stabilized microscope which is extracting information from tracks 1/20 the width of a human red blood cell while flying along at a linear velocity of 1.2 meters per second
05:58<z-MaTRiX>(cd drive)
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06:54<z-MaTRiX>hah
06:54<z-MaTRiX>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_One_(company)#IQ_Series
06:56<z-MaTRiX>20megapixel+
06:59<z-MaTRiX>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasselblad#H3DII
07:00<@peter1138>cheap :)
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07:13<CIA-6>OpenTTD: planetmaker * r23046 /extra/website/frontpage/templates/frontpage/development.html: [Website] -Change: Amend development page by adding information on AI development and expanding on NewGRF development
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>OpenTTD seriously dislikes overwriting the grf file and then not using reload_newgrfs
07:28<@planetmaker>does it?
07:29<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it reads invalid sprites and occasionally crashes
07:30<Eddi|zuHause>and the makefile doesn't recognize changes to english.lng.in
07:34<@planetmaker>yes... by default it only depends on *.lng in the lang dir
07:34<@planetmaker>I guess that needs adding, too. Or is that added in Makefile.in?
07:35<@planetmaker>like %.grf: $(shell ls lang/*.lng.in)
07:36<Eddi|zuHause>dbg: [grf] Unknown StringID 0x00D0 remapped to STR_EMPTY. Please open a Feature Request if you need it <--- not sure what that means
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: Makefile.in has this line:
07:37<Eddi|zuHause>%.lng: %.lng.in src/table/CETS_Tracking_Table.tsv $(GENERATE)
07:38<@planetmaker>hm. I see. But the grf won't depend on it as it doesn't find the lng
07:39<@planetmaker>try adding %.grf: ...
07:39<@planetmaker>as well
07:40<@planetmaker>hm. no. it'sm ore convoluted
07:40<@planetmaker>I'll look into it. I have an idea. But can't test right now
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>i still have no idea how those string warnings happen...
07:48<Eddi|zuHause>pushed my changes now, so if anybody with a clue clicks around the purchase list and finds a sensible scheme why this happens, please tell...
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09:15<@Belugas>hello
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09:19<@planetmaker>hello Belugas
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09:43<@Belugas>sir rich maker ;)
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10:24<z-MaTRiX>http://www.mirrorless-dslr-guide.com/samsung-nx10-features.html
10:24<z-MaTRiX>heres a cool mirrorless DSLR
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10:42<@peter1138>erm
10:42<@peter1138>where would i find a libtermcap.so.2? :S
10:46<@Belugas>i do not believe in mirrorless dslr. dunno why, just that it does not feel... right
10:46<@Belugas>mirror = optics
10:47<@Belugas>mirrorless = electronics
10:47<z-MaTRiX># whereis libtermcap.so.2
10:47<z-MaTRiX>libtermcap.so: /lib64/libtermcap.so.2 /usr/lib64/libtermcap.so
10:47<@Belugas>can fail, does not have same quality as mirrors
10:47<z-MaTRiX>Belugas<< mirror is only used for your viewfinder in DSLR
10:47<z-MaTRiX>that is skipped
10:47<z-MaTRiX>and not clicking
10:49<@Belugas>viewfinder is the most important part! i am not going to shoot using the lcd, ever
10:49<z-MaTRiX>in this case mirror is a bottleneck
10:49<z-MaTRiX>it will fail
10:49<z-MaTRiX>and prevents accurate autofocus
10:49<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: How do you want to show the track classes when using the simplified rail or a foreign track grf?
10:49<@Belugas>with a 100000 cycle? autofocus is not relevant to mirror
10:49<z-MaTRiX>also prevents live-view on your lcd
10:50<@Belugas>i have spot on focus with viewfinder
10:50<z-MaTRiX>well they used to advertise 200-300k cycles
10:50<@Belugas>live-view is not a proper way to shoot
10:50<z-MaTRiX>i always used live-view
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: we could check the presence of railtypes in the switch
10:50<@Belugas>you get too far from the picture, you loose accuracy on composing, my opinion
10:50<z-MaTRiX>and these have OLED displays
10:50<z-MaTRiX>that is superior to any LCD
10:51<+michi_cc>Or we could just not care and hope players are bright enough :)
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that's the present state of the code :)
10:53<@Belugas>live view shold only be used when dealing with small cameras withouth viewfinders, or no dslr, in my point of view
10:53<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23047 /trunk/src/network/core/config.h: -Documentation: silly typo in comment
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>one problem currently is that the additional purchase info text does not get displayed in the prototype announcement (unless that has been changed recently and i missed that)
10:54<@planetmaker>what's the issue with railtypes and cets now?
10:54<z-MaTRiX>what do you think? sd or sdhc?
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10:55<@planetmaker>given you aquisition rate mentioned yesterday sd is sufficient
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10:55<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i added the track classes to purchase info text (cb23)
10:55<@planetmaker>ah. I see
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the question was whether we should hide them, when no relevant track set is loaded
10:55<@planetmaker>Yes... adopting that to available RT would be nice (if that was the original question)
11:00<@planetmaker>[ STORE_TEMP(rt_var, STR_EMPTY), (LOAD_TEMP(rt_var) == STR_EMPTY) ? (railtype_available("BLUB") ? STR_RT_BLUB : STR_EMPTY), ... ]
11:00<@planetmaker>not sure whether that works
11:01<@planetmaker>in a switch, like e.g. for CB234
11:01<@planetmaker>*CB23
11:02<@planetmaker>thus successively going to the least preferred track type
11:03<@planetmaker>and I'm missing a ": STORE_TEMP(rt_var, LOAD_TEMP(rt_var))"
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure there are easier ways to do that
11:05<@planetmaker>we could probably create a global mapping for certain railtype preference characteristics
11:05<@planetmaker>and fill that with the proper strings
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>i'll think of something
11:06<@planetmaker>hm... how many RT do the trains support?
11:06<@planetmaker>that many strings we need
11:06<@planetmaker>or variables
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>it's probably just switch between a set of texts for nutracks/dbrails/certs/default
11:07<@planetmaker>we need got track sprites for ce-tracks
11:08<@planetmaker>or we just vary fences ;-)
11:08<@planetmaker>s/got/good/
11:08<@planetmaker>damn it
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i thought maybe we just use some default tracks, and colour code something like a km-stone
11:09<@planetmaker>that's possibly a good idea
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>in the hope that varact2 for railtypes can get the tileXY-position, so we could display a stone every 2 tiles (like catenary pylons)
11:12<@planetmaker>yes and no. We could abuse the pseudo-random bits. which depends on tile position
11:13<@planetmaker>and repeats every 4 tiles
11:13<Pinkbeast>Is that guaranteed to remaind the case?
11:13<@planetmaker>it's random bits. so: no
11:13<@Yexo>they don't repeat every 4 tiles, right?
11:14<@planetmaker>it's a somewhat regular pattern iirc
11:14<@planetmaker>it's not real-random
11:14<@planetmaker>it's really position-dependeant
11:14<@planetmaker>but too long ago I play-tested with ser
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>no, i really meant a fixed calculation, not pseudorandom
11:14<@planetmaker>iirc it's the x or y-coordinate's last bits
11:15<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you won't get means to read adjacent rail tiles
11:17<@planetmaker>as the argument that that eats way too much cpu is still valid (for every ground tile)
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, really, the catenary code already does that
11:18<@planetmaker>catenary pylon placement is not newgrf-able
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, for colour coding the railtypes that is not necessary. it would be necessary for curvy rails
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12:50<Eddi|zuHause>hm... there's no equivalent of "{SKIP}" for nml?
12:51<@planetmaker>there is {SKIP} iirc
12:51<@planetmaker>or doesn't that work for you?
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>it's not documented here: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Language_files
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Language_files#String_parameters
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>ah... POP_WORD
12:54<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: there's no {SKIP} in OpenTTD anymore
12:56<Prof_Frink>Then where does the {RUBBISH} go when you demolish something?
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13:04<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: {INCINERATE}?
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13:20<Chris_Booth>evening all
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23048 /trunk/src/lang/ (japanese.txt unfinished/basque.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: basque - 29 changes by HerrBasque
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: japanese - 72 changes by nex259
13:46-!-LordAro [~LordAro@host86-156-236-122.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
13:47<@Alberth>hi
13:47<LordAro>evening
13:48<LordAro>sorry for the quick exit yesterday, btw - not my fault :L
13:48<TrueBrain>excuses! :P
13:48-!-valhalla1w [~valhallas@vpn91.ext.espci.fr] has joined #openttd
13:48<LordAro>i did get your link, but you didn't get my reply :)
13:51<LordAro>(google code-thingy) looks cool, i think i will sign up to this :)
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13:56<@Alberth>ok :)
13:56<LordAro>also, "and your first code in an open source project :p" incorrect :P
13:56<LordAro>@rev 21654
13:57<LordAro>dang it
13:57<LordAro>whats the command?
13:57<@Alberth>@commit 21654
13:57<@DorpsGek>Alberth: Commit by yexo :: r21654 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2010-12-29 12:19:33 UTC)
13:57<@DorpsGek>Alberth: -Add: [NoAI] AITown::IsCity() so AIs can find out which towns grow faster than others (Lord Aro)
13:57<LordAro>ty :)
13:57<@Alberth>pure luck :)
13:57-!-DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-190-29.w109-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd
13:58<@Alberth>nonetheless, thanks for the patch :)
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13:58<LordAro>oh, and i didn't see an option to set for 'patch', perhaps there is a setting missing somewhere?
13:59<@Alberth>iirc you can click at 'defect' to get other options
13:59<LordAro>i didn't see that option
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14:00<LordAro>indeed, i cannot see it now
14:00<Wolf01>hello
14:00<LordAro>hi
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14:02<@Alberth>hmm, you are right, it's missing. Must look into that.
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14:07<Zuu>hello LordAro, how is your readme reader going?
14:07<LordAro>getting there, but alberth made me break it again :)
14:08<Zuu>Btw, can players see if a town is a city?
14:08<Rubidium>it's in the caption of the town authority window
14:08<LordAro>it's in the town window
14:08<LordAro>too slow :)
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14:08<Zuu>Ok
14:09<LordAro>and (slightly) because of me, so can AIs :)
14:13<LordAro>oh! a commit by tb
14:14<@Alberth>If all is well, you can add patches now :)
14:15<LordAro>indeed, i can :)
14:16<@Alberth>weird that they don't add it by default
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14:17<@Alberth>evening andy
14:17<andythenorth>hai
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14:24<andythenorth>quak
14:27<frosch123>moin
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14:38<andythenorth>will I get my head down and learn nml?
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14:44<@Alberth>not while you get distracted by chat messages like this one :p
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14:52<andythenorth>meh
14:52<andythenorth>can't we discuss things we're never going to code instead?
14:53<@Alberth>are you ever going to code a highly configurable industry set?
14:53<andythenorth>specify 'configurable'
14:54<@Alberth>where you can specify input and output cargoes by parameters
14:54<@Alberth>so a user can build arbitrary chains
14:54<andythenorth>I suggest not
14:54<andythenorth>on the grounds that it will suck
14:55<@Alberth>some challenge-oriented people will like it I think
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14:58<andythenorth>so what would happen?
14:59<andythenorth>I can specify coal mine accepts milk and produces sheep?
14:59<@Alberth>I'd make simple cargoes like A B C etc, and simple factory graphics
15:01<frosch123>andythenorth: well, with 32 cargos you could make a industry chain of length 32 :p
15:01<frosch123>33 actually
15:05<andythenorth>Alberth: if you want to specify in / out cargos for a generic processor, that's more plausible
15:06<andythenorth>I've considered dock / warehouse industries that act as primaries and are configurable
15:06<andythenorth>Alberth: sounds like a mashup of opengfx+ and FIRS
15:06<@Alberth>you could make industries that need a chain and produce very little
15:06<andythenorth>why don't you code it?
15:07<@Alberth>I might one day, just for fun
15:07<andythenorth>it's OpenGFX+, FIRS *and* manual industries all schumshed together
15:07<andythenorth>you can use FIRS graphics
15:07<andythenorth>there are cbs to customise in / out cargo
15:08<frosch123>now i have it, 32 industrytypes which each produce and accept one cargo, so they form a circle of accepting the cargo each other. finally a 33rd industrytype which produces a random cargo at a very low rate
15:10<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23049 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp smallmap_gui.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#4810]: Use the same forest-check for the vegetation-map colour as for nearby station names.
15:11<frosch123>it's even realistic
15:12<frosch123>name the industries like various public authorites and transport different types of mail between them
15:12<andythenorth>'paperwork'
15:13<andythenorth>'red tape'
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15:15<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: man this is annoying... makefile doesn't recognize changes to railtypedefinitions.pnml
15:15<andythenorth>make clean?
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes, but after the 20th time, you run out of swearwords
15:17<andythenorth>what, make clean doesn't work?
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>make clean does work
15:17<Eddi|zuHause>but it shouldn't be necessary
15:18<andythenorth>but it is
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>it is not
15:18<andythenorth>I have a shell script called makego
15:18<andythenorth>which basically calls make clean && make install
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>it's just poorly programmed
15:18<@Alberth>frosch123: sounds like the planet of the vogons :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vogon
15:18<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: mostly just overly complex
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: "Passierschein 28 a"?
15:18<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: that's a bit harsh :P
15:19<andythenorth>I felt bad moaning about it so I just standardised a workaround
15:19<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: exactly
15:19<andythenorth>make clean takes only a fraction of the build time
15:20<@Alberth>I noticed yeah :)
15:20<frosch123>Alberth: i have to book lieing on a desk right next to me for about 1 year. did not read it yet :p
15:20<frosch123>s/to/the/
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: but it takes up my precious developer time when i reflexically type "make", get an error, and wonder why that happens, because i just fixed it, then have to remember "ah make clean"
15:21<andythenorth>reflexively type 'makego'
15:21<andythenorth>or just cursor up :P
15:21<frosch123>alias make "make clean && make" ?
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: now that's stupid
15:22<@Alberth>make it recursively clean ? :)
15:22<andythenorth>that's exactly what I did
15:22<andythenorth>shell script / alias /s
15:22<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: you basically break with cets every assumption on how a newgrf is built albeit you complain it doesn't work out of the box. Man. that is annoying
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but it's a .pnml file
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: it should work out of the box
15:23<@Alberth>right
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: and i do think it did work, until you last touched the makefile
15:23<@planetmaker>only if cpp can write a dep file when parsing cets.pnml
15:23<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: revert the makefile?
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: why would that fail?
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i hardly ever touched cets.pnml
15:24<@planetmaker>so, is it included there?
15:24<@planetmaker>the pnml file?
15:24<frosch123>automatic dependencies generally fail when there are intermediate files
15:25<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: automatically works only if parsing cets.pnml and its includes can derive that dep
15:25<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: yes, it's there
15:25<@planetmaker>then you're out of luck for today, I'm afraid
15:26<@planetmaker>I'll try to look at it tomorrow or Monday
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: Makefile.dep is empty for me
15:27<Eddi|zuHause>if that's relevant
15:31<@planetmaker>it should be found in cets.src.dep
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it is
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16:03<Eddi|zuHause>something is wrong with the {{} and {}} codes...
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>someone load CETS, and click on "ICE1" (DBAG) or "VT 18.16" (DR)
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>and then watch the console
16:06<frosch123>{}} is nonsense
16:06<frosch123>it means "\n}"
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>uhm...
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>ok
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>even then
16:06<frosch123>does the console say the grf is broken?
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>the console says "dbg: [grf] Unknown StringID 0x00D0 remapped to STR_EMPTY. Please open a Feature Request if you need it"
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>but only for those two engines
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>which are the only ones which have {} in their axle scheme
16:07<frosch123>then i would complain first at nml :p
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>i can't see the beginning of the errors, because it's really a huge chunk
16:11<Wolf01>and if you use only } ?
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>Wolf01: that won't matter, as {} works properly
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>it's just a not really well placed newline
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>shouldn't change functionality
16:12<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: recent ottd check strings for invalid \n
16:12<frosch123>and remove them
16:12<frosch123>or so
16:12<frosch123>maybe they complain only
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i use it successfully elsewhere in cb23
16:13<frosch123>cb23 allows new lines
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>yes, which is where this stuff is used
16:13<frosch123>but e.g. vehicle names do not
16:13<frosch123>well, then use grf2html to check what the grf says
16:14<frosch123>for the string
16:14<frosch123>then you should be able to blame nml or ottd
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>grf2html is gonna be fun with 25k sprites :p
16:16<frosch123>use the --nodata option
16:16<frosch123>then it does not generate the png and the browser will be fine
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>good to know
16:17<frosch123>also opera performs better than e.g. firefox
16:20<andythenorth>I don't think this is a FISH bug: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/2321
16:20<andythenorth>I think it's an openttd bug
16:21<andythenorth>I think a varaction 2 is reporting an incorrect value for speed
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>"have you checked TTDPatch" :p
16:22<Rubidium>ships and aircraft are alike (but not quite)
16:23<Rubidium>andythenorth: try stopping a ship; it won't slow down gradually. It will be simply stopped. Then starting it will start at top speed
16:24<andythenorth>yup
16:24<andythenorth>so...
16:24<andythenorth>how does this get improved?
16:24<Rubidium>when somebody implements realistic ship acceleration?
16:25<andythenorth>hmm
16:25<andythenorth>so is this not just a broken varaction 2?
16:25-!-Hyronymus [~chatzilla@s53757898.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
16:25<andythenorth>if I stop the ship, the varaction 2 correctly reports speed 0
16:26<andythenorth>but if the ship breaks down, speed is unchanged
16:26<andythenorth>so does a broken down ship keep its speed value, but stop moving?
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>hm, my grf2html doesn't understand action14
16:26*andythenorth can envisage that code
16:26<frosch123>but HandleBreakdown sets cur_speed to zero for non-aircraft
16:26*andythenorth should read source
16:26<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: trunk does
16:27<andythenorth>if broken down move 0, else move v
16:27*andythenorth has not read source :P
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound right: Text 0xD061 "Bo'Bo'+2'2'" <0x7B dword> "6,14" <0x7D signed byte> "+Bo'Bo'"
16:28<frosch123>0x7B is {
16:28<frosch123>so nml fails to properly utf-8 encode those
16:28<frosch123>high-ascii characters are control codes :p
16:28<frosch123>or is that wrong in ottd?
16:29<frosch123>hmm, now i wonder whether they shall not be control codes when using utf-8
16:29*Alberth ponders how 0x7y is a high ascii character
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>i wondered that same thing...
16:30<frosch123>Alberth: what else?
16:30<frosch123>ascii is 0x20 to 0x7f
16:30<@Alberth>it is less than 0x80
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>"high ascii" starts at 0x80
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>0x7B is arguably lower than 0x80
16:30<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: well, so, maybe at least a bug of grf2html
16:30<@Alberth>and 0x7y < 0x80
16:31<frosch123>yes, thus it is high ascii
16:31<frosch123>> 80 would not be ascii
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but what grf2html says roughly coincides with what i experienced in openttd
16:32<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: so they both seem to do the same thing
16:32<@Alberth>so I don't understand 'high ascii' apparently
16:32<frosch123>"Finally, characters 7B..7F no longer function as the above formatting instructions, but will display regular glyphs " <- from the specs
16:33<frosch123>so, at least the specs are very clear in this point :)
16:34<andythenorth>what's the nicest order for ship IDs?
16:34<andythenorth>(menu sort)
16:34<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: ottd code looks correct
16:35<andythenorth>PAX ships, general ships, freight ships?
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: nml does not seem to set the utf8-thorn
16:36<frosch123>ok, then it is a nml bug :)
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/661/ <- what grfcodec says
16:37<andythenorth>"nobody cares about /me" :P
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: group by passenger/cargo, and sort by size
16:38<andythenorth>k
16:38<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: grf2html also seems to be right :)
16:38<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: intro date?
16:38<andythenorth>older ships -> newer ships
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>if necessary, also group by speed and ocean/canal
16:39<andythenorth>hmm
16:39<andythenorth>that too
16:39<andythenorth>speed you can sort for
16:40<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it is a nml bug
16:40<frosch123>now, open a ticket and wait respectfully :)
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>in CETS i group by cargo, traction type and company, then sort by intro date in each group
16:42<andythenorth>river boats before sea boats?
16:42<andythenorth>or vice versa?
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16:45<Eddi|zuHause>yes. :p
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>one of those
16:45<andythenorth>hmm
16:46<andythenorth>vehicle ferries refit to all cargos
16:46<andythenorth>oh well
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>put them in the middle?
16:46<andythenorth>I'll try something and tweak it if it sucks
16:46<andythenorth>yup, they're going in the middle
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>passenger - universal - cargo
16:46<andythenorth>yup
16:46<andythenorth>that's my plan ;)
16:47<andythenorth>could just do it like NARS 2: oldest -> newest
16:47<andythenorth>:P
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that's the code that sorts CETS vehicles: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/658/
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16:47<andythenorth>heh
16:47<andythenorth>proper code
16:47<andythenorth>I always find lambda sorts magical
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16:48<andythenorth>I write them about twice a year, always following instructions :P
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>i hardly ever do not use lambda in a sort...
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>who the hell is interested in standard orders? :)
16:53<andythenorth>log tug: end of the list? or middle?
16:53*andythenorth crowdsources
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i'm not entirely sure about this, but: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/format_codes.diff
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that _should_ trigger the utf8-encode if any of these 0x7B..0x7F characters are found
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but i don't know if nml tries to use these anywhere else
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16:58<frosch123>i do not know either :p
16:59<frosch123>andythenorth: your fish is broken, ship reliability never drops below 98%
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know what they do either
16:59<andythenorth>frosch123: my ships are very well built
16:59<andythenorth>and lovingly maintained
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: but with that patch everything is displayed properly
17:03<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23050 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] When vehicles break down, update the image cache after changing the vehicle state to make fish happy.
17:04<frosch123>andythenorth: i am not allowed to close fish tasks :p
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>"so long, and thanks for all the fish"?
17:06<frosch123>[21:20] <frosch123> Alberth: i have to book lieing on a desk right next to me for about 1 year. did not read it yet :p
17:06<frosch123>s/to/the/
17:07<frosch123>s/Alberth/Eddi|zuHause/
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'm one of those stupid people that only watch the movie
17:08<frosch123>the book is even the english one
17:09<frosch123>which is troublesome with some authors. e.g. discworld is boring in english as i only get half of the jokes. the disc world "child" books are fine though :p
17:10<frosch123>damn, i forgot the name of the girl
17:10<Rubidium>then I guess I'll wait for "NML the movie" before using it ;)
17:12<frosch123>not every computer program is suited to become a movie
17:12<frosch123>wing command worked well; tomb raider worked less
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>SkyOne (i think) produced some discworld tv movies
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>The Hogfather, The Colour of Magic, and Going Postal
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17:18<frosch123>weird selection
17:18<frosch123>hmm, otoh. might be the first of each of the "death", "wizzard with two z" and "moist" series
17:19<frosch123>no "mort" is first of death-series
17:21<Wolf01>'night
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17:26*andythenorth will go fishing, if there's free time
17:26*andythenorth is in a fishing mood
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17:28<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and i lied with 25k sprites, it's now 34k
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>and ~20k realsprites
17:32<andythenorth>good night
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18:02<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: 16M is your limit
18:03<FFLaguna>New WoW expansion announced
18:03<FFLaguna>New race/class/other stuff
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>there was some vague mentioning of a 64k limit
18:03<FFLaguna>Bah, wrong channel
18:03<FFLaguna>And I don't even play WoW
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>FFLaguna: i don't think anybody here cares
18:03<FFLaguna>I don't care either, but some other people will
18:03<FFLaguna>Not meant for this channel :P
18:04<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: 64k is the size limit of a single pseudo sprite
18:04<frosch123>i.e. the limit of the complexity of a single varact2
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>right now i'm rather worried about the number of concurrently "alive" varact2
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>if that limit is really 256, then i'll probably hit that
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>although there may be a way around that
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18:07<frosch123>if you hit it, you are doing it wrong :p
18:08<frosch123>hmm, connection seems to work again
18:09<frosch123>anyway, using temporary storage you can extent the number of alive varact2 to more than the number of atoms in the universe
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18:16<frosch123>night
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19:38<Mazur>planetmaker already to bed?
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 22 00:00:59 2011