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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-10-28

---Logopened Fri Oct 28 00:00:28 2011
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02:07<Elukka>jesus christ
02:08<Elukka>i wanted to do some texturing and then i opened blender and lost all urge to work in 2 minutes
02:08<Elukka>"ui conventions? nnnnnaaah, we don't need those"
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02:51<Zuu>Elukka: They possible decided to invent their own conventions :-)
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03:18<Celestar>hail peops
03:22<Ammler>orudge: no chance to setup forwards from ttdpatch wiki to tt-wiki?
03:23<Ammler>instead just linking to
03:26<Ammler>and good morning :-)
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04:05<@planetmaker>moin Ammler :)
04:05<@planetmaker>found the broken links on the base cost grf page? ;-)
04:07<@planetmaker>hi z-MaTRiX
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04:14<z-MaTRiX>(2/0)/(1/0)= ?
04:16<z-MaTRiX>i'd say 2
04:16<DDR_>I'd go with one.
04:16<@planetmaker>you can only try to make a statement on a value, if you have a limit to consider. Could be -2 as well. Or something else. Depends on how fast the limits approach 0
04:16<DDR_>2/0 and 1/0 are both infinity...
04:17<@planetmaker>both is undefined. Not infinity ;-)
04:17<DDR_>And I know that something divided by itself is 1.
04:17<DDR_>planetmaker: I defined it. :P
04:17<z-MaTRiX>0 is named zero, and is a representation of the number halfway between (-1) and (1) ON the one-dimensional number-line.
04:17<z-MaTRiX>it is not nothing
04:17<DDR_>Besides, the beauty is that we don't HAVE to define it!
04:18<@planetmaker>DDR_: division by zero is undefined, also 0/0 ;-)
04:18<z-MaTRiX>Any number divided by itself equals 1.
04:18<z-MaTRiX>=> 0/0 = 1
04:18<@planetmaker>as there cannot be a sensible definition even. And ^ is correct for |R \ {0}
04:18<DDR_>I'm working in a programming language that defined infinity as the largest number you can store in a 32-bit integer.
04:18<DDR_>For all intents and purposes, it seems to work /wonderfully/. :P
04:19<@planetmaker>x / x^2 for x=0 != 0 but infinity
04:19<DDR_>z-MaTRiX: Sold. :)
04:19<z-MaTRiX>1/0 != 2/0
04:19<DDR_>The important thing is that you're consistent about it, and that you don't look too closely.
04:19<@planetmaker>as with 0/0 = 1 can can also prove 1=2
04:20<DDR_>1+1=3, for large enough values of 1.
04:20<z-MaTRiX>0*0 != 0*1 != 0*2 ...
04:20<z-MaTRiX>add imaginary part
04:20<@planetmaker>you can only ever work with limits if you try to divide by 0. Otherwise all statements of blah / 0 = whatever are meaningless
04:21<z-MaTRiX>how about
04:22<z-MaTRiX> 1/0 = 1z(inf)
04:22<z-MaTRiX> 2/0 = 2z(inf)
04:23<z-MaTRiX>1z(inf)*0 = 1
04:27<z-MaTRiX>(2*0) / (1*0) = 2z(0) / 1z(0) = 2
04:27<@orudge>Ammler: how strange, I'm not sure why that's happened
04:28<@orudge>may have to get patchman to update IP addresses, I guess
04:28<@orudge>there was a redirect on there before, anyway
04:28<Terkhen>good morning
04:31<Ammler>planetmaker: I have lots of links to the old grf wiki, that is why I ask for forward :-P
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04:35<@planetmaker>Ammler, run a bot over the wiki and replace all by or so ;-)
04:35<@planetmaker>moin Terkhen
04:36<@planetmaker>z-MaTRiX, on a wiki?
04:36<Ammler>planetmaker: tt-forums
04:36<@planetmaker> from the wiki-bot will do the trick nicely
04:36<Ammler>and I do for sure not learn how to use a wiki bot just to replace some links :-P
04:36*planetmaker did :-P
04:37<Ammler>you made a bit more
04:37<@planetmaker>but I have ne coop wiki family specs so far
04:39<Ammler>well, as long as people blame owen instead me for the broken links ;-)
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05:10<@orudge>Ammler: well, the links will be fixed shortly, just need to speak to patchman
05:20<Ammler>isn't your domain?
05:22<Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> Ammler, run a bot over the wiki and replace all by or so ;-) <-- that's treating the symptoms, not the problem
05:32<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, and what is the problem?
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05:33<@planetmaker>and old un-maintained domain slowly shutting down in pieces? Put onto life support for... very little reason?
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: there are links to all over the internet, you can't fix all of them. and it's really simple to just keep the redirect alive
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06:35<Ammler>well, at least as long as the domain exists, there is no need to keep/pay for it
06:45<TinoDidriksen>Just "301 Redirect" and everythign will eventually follow...
06:46<TrueBrain>TinoDidriksen: you might think. Yet 5 years ago we had an URL, and people STILL request it ... while it has been on a 301 for 5 years :D
06:48<@planetmaker>TinoDidriksen, why would I update my bookmark (or actually my memory) just because a browser re-directs a webpage - something I might not even notice or care about?
06:48<TrueBrain>that is the result, yeah :P
06:48<TrueBrain>a nag-screen does help btw :D
06:48<TrueBrain>nobody loads these days :D
06:49<TrueBrain>I lied ...
06:49<TrueBrain>@calc 713 / 577972
06:49<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 0.00123362377416
06:50<TrueBrain>@calc 713 / 577972 * 100
06:50<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 0.123362377416
06:50<TrueBrain>0.12% still opens :P
06:51<TrueBrain>still the 301 .... haha :D
07:01<@planetmaker>,45612,2561554.html <-- nice... so much for EULA and about conforming to legal requirements
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07:14<Terkhen>EA is always doing stupid things
07:14<Terkhen>I didn't buy the original Mass Effect bacause of the crazy DRM it had
07:14<Terkhen>and now this
07:15<blathijs>Also, I don't actually get the idea that any of this DRM crap stops games from being pirated...
07:16<TinoDidriksen>ME1 had DRM?
07:17<Terkhen>TinoDidriksen: yes, it only allowed you to install the game five times IIRC
07:17<@planetmaker>blathijs, it stops the occasional pirate. Not the 'dedicated'
07:17<@planetmaker>But to stop the 'occasional' pirate, that's overshooting by quite a margin.
07:17<TinoDidriksen>, I have it via Steam, which has no such limit.
07:18<Terkhen>blathijs: other game with the same DRM than Mass Effect was pirated a day before release, so... it doesn't
07:18<blathijs>planetmaker: What's an "occasional pirate", then?
07:18<Terkhen>TinoDidriksen: I bought it years after, they ended up removing that DRM
07:19<@planetmaker>blathijs, the one who'd just take it, if it means no effort
07:19<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: "non-conforming" EULA parts are automatically void.
07:19<Terkhen>also, you can consider Steam as a form of DRM... but at least it is one I can live with
07:19<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I know. But what point is it, if 90% of the EULA are void? As outlined there?
07:20<@planetmaker>(and the article also explains so, ... shouldn't I haven't know it before)
07:21<@peter1138>what does that article say?
07:22<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, not quite far ahead to the specifics yet...
07:27<@peter1138>maybe google translate will help
07:27<@planetmaker>peter1138, basically a lawyer analysis EA's EULA for the "origin" "copyright protection" as is going to be used by EA from now on
07:27<Celestar>basically the whole EULA is illegal :P
07:27<Eddi|zuHause>i doubt that, it's quite legal specific stuff.
07:28<Eddi|zuHause>google translate will probably just result in gibberish
07:28<@planetmaker>The result basically is, that every single paragraph of that EULA is illegal, surprising or too detrimental for customers, each of the reasons along rendering it void.
07:29<@planetmaker>And as the EULA goes, they basically grant themselves the right to completely monitor your computer and communications and publish all such gathered information in order to protect their copyright
07:29<@planetmaker>oh, and to transmit these gathered data to any country in the world as they see fit, too
07:30<b_jonas>only that? they don't even mention the user's first born child?
07:30<@planetmaker>and to exclude any means of appeal or any liability far beyond what law allows
07:30<b_jonas>what kind of lenient eula is that?
07:30<b_jonas>(cf. )
07:31<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: and to use these data for marketing purposes
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07:33<@planetmaker>also. Though they seem to have removed that half-sentence.
07:35<Celestar>closed-source shit.
07:37<MINM>probably a dutchman who built that house >.<
07:37<@planetmaker>that's not de-motivational. That's tasteless
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07:53<z-MaTRiX>let's see what we have in the fridge to the beer
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>please, stop trying to be funny. it's in your best interest
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08:19<lugo>is there a way to see every file-upload a user has done on the forums?
08:20<lugo>i'm sure i've seen a water airport done by aegir and wanted to post a link to that thread in the recent discussion..
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09:54<@Belugas>lugo, i doubt you can
09:55<@Belugas>you should try searching the posts with different keywords
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09:57<MINM>the screenshots on the OTTD site could deserve some new ones from 1.1.3
10:00<@peter1138>make some nice ones
10:02<MINM>am doing that right now.
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10:03<@Belugas>hint: don't make ones that are showing off your skills, but ones that show how cool OTTD is
10:04<@Belugas>and ones that do not show stuff that can be done on TTDPatch, there are some poor souls quite sensible to that...
10:04<MINM>what are those?
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10:13<MINM>how bout that?
10:14<MINM>I did have some old maps with pretty f'ing heavy traffic that could qualify as that, with rather complicated junctions with integrated stations
10:14<MINM>ehh, can you actually see that link?
10:14<MINM>I think I forgot to remove the comma from the file name
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10:20<MINM>should be fixed now
10:22<TrueBrain>hmm, dutch train set <3
10:22<@Belugas>newgrf... mb will hit you with a ton of bricks
10:23<@Belugas>on the other side, who cares what he says...
10:23<TrueBrain>if we did care, OpenTTD would be a dead project by now
10:23<MINM>isn't dutch trainset, is 2cc with primary yellow and secundary blue colours :D
10:23<TrueBrain>MINM: in result, the trains are dutch :P
10:23<MINM>true. that was my intention, after all
10:23<MINM>even if the landscape is far from dutch
10:24<TrueBrain>or city names
10:24<TrueBrain>the NS extended its coverage ;)
10:24<MINM>actually, that specific model train that runs the line is dutch, too
10:24<MINM>that game is from before I figured out how to enable town name grfs >.<
10:24<MINM>considering I did so only this week :D
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>didn't they want to build a 2000m high mountain? :p
10:25<MINM>eh, not sure if april foolds
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10:25<MINM>silly fingers, what are you doing with that D?
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10:26<MINM>let's hunt another pretty picture.
10:28<MINM>in my games I try to use trains from as close to the Netherlands as possible, except where I can't avoid it (dutch trains don't go well with mountains, apparently, who would have thought?)
10:28<TrueBrain>1 leaf on the rails and they come to a stand-still
10:30<MINM>well, nowadays it's not leaves, but copper theft
10:31<TrueBrain>that is one thing they really can't help :)
10:31<TrueBrain>without copper, trains simply don't run :)
10:32<Prof_Frink>Just keep all the cables live.
10:33<MINM>they do
10:33<MINM>apparently copper is valuable enough nowadays to steal it from live running wires
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10:33<MINM>also, signaling is done with copper, if I'm not mistaken
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10:36<Terkhen>some people here have died while trying to steal copper
10:38*Belugas ears are dry. timwe to get them wet with some music
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10:49<MINM>"Can't change volume inside OpenTTD [FS#4416]"
10:49<MINM>listed under known bugs
10:50<MINM>I thought already that this was a feature, lol
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11:11<@orudge>Ammler: (and should now be working again, now on the tt-forums server :)
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11:34<Sacro>MINM: no, we use fibre mostly now
11:34<Sacro>but they just damage it :(
11:34<MINM>in the netherlands?
11:34<@Belugas>Sacro is not on the continent
11:37<Sacro>we have our own little island over here
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11:57<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro^: need bigger signs that say "this is not a copper cable"
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11:59<Sacro^>Eddi|zuHause: I think they've got that far, they just damage it to be twats
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23060 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: tamil - 124 changes by aswn
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13:59<@Belugas>big time...
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14:49<andythenorth>did I miss much?
14:50<andythenorth>a bit
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14:56*Belugas hugs andythenorth
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15:18<Celestar>sorry :P
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16:40<frosch123>haha, so that 5000 vehicle game uses a grf version 1 grf :p
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>that's... unfortunate :p
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>we should build more grfs that will deactivate themselves in future versions :p
16:42<frosch123>yay, the 2kx2k map is maybe 0.0001% filled
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16:43<Eddi|zuHause>i can imagine 5000 is quite a low limit for RVs
16:43<frosch123>well, the pf won't cause a problem, when roads branch only every 200 tiles or so
16:43<Terkhen>those are still around?
16:44<frosch123>Terkhen: 1.1.x still works with them
16:44<Terkhen>heh :P
16:44<frosch123>and it is on bananas
16:45<frosch123>that game is actually funny with trunk. it says missing grf, and when opening the "find missing grfs online" it says "you already have this" :p
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: it's mostly malformed newer grfs, not actual grf version 1
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16:45<Terkhen>I see :)
16:46<frosch123>i am not even sure whether there was ever a grf with version 0 or 1 "released"
16:49<frosch123>august 2002 to july 2003
16:49<frosch123>grf version 1 introduced action 8 btw :p
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16:54<andythenorth>let's deprecate newgrf
16:54<andythenorth>then our lives will be improved
16:55<@Belugas>hem... really?
16:55<@Belugas>is newgrf related somehow with my basement?
16:55<@Belugas>or... my work@work?
16:56<Rubidium>lets deprecate and axe all network code. That will make our live much easier ;)
16:56<andythenorth>all network code in the world?
16:56<andythenorth>or just in ottd?
16:56<Rubidium>just the network code related to OpenTTD
16:57<@Belugas>nonono... al the code in the world!
16:57<@DorpsGek>someone wants to deprecate this channel?
16:57<@Belugas>boring code them?
16:58<frosch123>well, my software passed the fat yesterday. so it should be fine to deprecate it today :)
16:59<Terkhen> <--- proposal for 1.2.0
17:00<andythenorth>should be easy to port to a wide range of platforms
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>Terkhen: finnally converted to 100% c++!!
17:00<andythenorth>I think I could write a browser-based version of that
17:01<frosch123>the ottd installer does not require 7 dvds, it must be old
17:01<frosch123>we should make a ottd release on bluray
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it doesn't require online registration or DRM
17:02<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that's what you think :p
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>we should write an EULA that says "we may scan your computer to identify unlicensed software"
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>that's totally "in" right now
17:04<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: "we may scan your computer to identify unsupported content" ;)
17:05<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: we will steal your creditcard information ? :)
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17:05<TrueBrain>with signing the iTunes EULA, you agree to be attached to another person for experimentation
17:05<TrueBrain>South Park all over again ...
17:05<frosch123>oh, trojanin left
17:06<frosch123>were was she sent to?
17:07<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I have a favour to ask...
17:08<andythenorth>I need a refit scheme for a cargo tram
17:08<Mazur>Ah, Topless Towers.
17:08<andythenorth>a contemporary one, like the VW one
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm, like <A><B>*<A>?
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>let me get back to that tomorrow-ish
17:09<andythenorth>I can do the code, but I am lacking inspiration wrt capacity, number vehicles etc
17:09<andythenorth>wagon length will be similar to the biggest current tram in HEQS
17:10<andythenorth>Rubidium: you mean 2A :P
17:10<Rubidium>no, 42
17:10<andythenorth>should a modern cargo tram refit to bulk cargos?
17:10<Mazur>\052 ?
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17:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23061 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/mysql.cpp: [MSU] -Change: force utf8 connection with the MySQL server
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17:22<andythenorth>real VW cargo tram does 50 km/h, same as the current fastest HEQS trams
17:22<andythenorth>that would give it no gameplay advantage
17:23<andythenorth>how fast should it go?
17:24<supermop_>does it need to go faster?
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>trams rarely go faster than 60-70km/h
17:24<andythenorth>supermop: it needs some reason to exist in game
17:24<andythenorth>graphics are not enough :P
17:25<supermop_>it could have lower running cost?
17:25<supermop_>better load speed?
17:25<andythenorth>both valid, but not compelling
17:25<supermop_>better reliability?
17:25<andythenorth>running costs don't really matter
17:25<__ln__>why does VW have one?
17:25<andythenorth>reliability - lots play with breakdowns off
17:25<andythenorth>__ln__: see the link further up
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: because they couldn't get rail access to their factory
17:26<supermop_>i think he means, what are the advantages vw sees in it - your tram could have the same
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't really apply
17:27<DDR_>VW put it in because they couldn't put their trucks on the road without causing congestion.
17:27<andythenorth>UK trams seem to be 80km/h
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>as the current heqs "trams" wouldn't have been an alternative
17:28<DDR_>However, since tram tracks run on roads in OpenTTD, there's no advantage.
17:28<__ln__>you can build tram tracks without roads in ottd.
17:30<andythenorth>alicante has 100km/h trams
17:31<Elukka>"The Electroliners were cleverly designed to operate with the high platforms, sharp curves, and narrow clearances of the Chicago Loop and the Chicago 'L', to run at speeds of 80 miles per hour (130 km/h) or more on the North Shore's main line, and to make their way up Milwaukee city streets to the North Shore Milwaukee Terminal in downtown Milwaukee."
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>some german cities have "Stadtbahn" which is something inbetween a tram and a commuter rail
17:32<__ln__>three finnish towns used to have trams -- today only one still has them.
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>and then there's hybrid trams that can operate as regular railways
17:32<frosch123>does the unrealistic train set feature a cargo trams with a rocket engine?
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17:32<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: it would be an unrealistic tram set then
17:33<Elukka>i've had something inbetween a tram line and commuter rail in openttd
17:33<Elukka>buses were not enough to handle the passengers of one big city so i built single track rail lines through the middle
17:33<Elukka>with small stations and EMUs
17:34<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: new route type: tramtraintrack
17:34<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well... dreams :p
17:34<andythenorth>what would it do?
17:34<andythenorth>other than require an ugly transition tile?
17:34<supermop_>perhaps there would be a roadtype overlay for narrow and standard gauges
17:35<supermop_>with all sorts of trains running down trucks i guess
17:35<V453000>Trains on Roads: Dumbness reborn? Stupidity of a train combined with stupidity of a tram? Getting closer to ship intelligence levels :D
17:36<supermop_>highline was built in New York because people kept getting run over by the industrial trains that ran between factories and warehouses on the streets
17:37<supermop_>and now its a nice park
17:37<Elukka>i've seen photos of standard gauge trains running on city streets
17:37<Elukka>in the US and... czech republic, i think
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17:39<V453000>havent seen a train in the street ever
17:39<V453000>(I am czech)
17:39<TrueBrain>but the question is
17:39<TrueBrain>have you ever been outside?
17:40<MINM>well, in older ages this was far more common.
17:40<Elukka>don't trust my memory too much
17:40<Elukka>i just remember reading it was czech, but i'm not sure
17:40<MINM>most harbour cities did, for example, antwerp
17:40<Elukka>i can throw you a picture though
17:41<Eddi|zuHause>the narrow gauge "Harzquerbahn" has a section where it's running on the streets in Wernigerode
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17:42<Eddi|zuHause>or at least it used to, i think they rebuilt the road there now
17:42<V453000>that is a czech train indeed Elukka
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>"after successfully establishing a monopoly on map data, google is now charging for use of its api"
17:45<andythenorth>except for the lots of app developers who are switching to MS bing
17:45<andythenorth>which is free....for now
17:45<TrueBrain>and MS is doing DMCA Takedown of open source projects that use the Skype API
17:45<TrueBrain>I love this world ...
17:46<andythenorth>it's a happy place
17:46<TrueBrain>greed is good
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>i guess "do no evil" is one of these good intentions that never actually survive new years day
17:46<andythenorth>I for one feel sorry for google
17:46<andythenorth>and their lack of revenues
17:47-!-pugi [] has quit [Quit: I reject your reality and substitute my own]
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>i couldn't care less about googles revenues
17:48*andythenorth wonders what 900kW is in real money
17:48<andythenorth>'quite a lot'
17:49<andythenorth>one thing the CarGo tram could do is go up hills faster :P
17:49<andythenorth>it's 1,200hp, or more depending on number of wagons
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>you know how google is dangerous to modern society? since the appearence of gmail fewer and fewer people have the knowledge how to set up a mailserver. and if google's advertising-based market suddenly breaks away, it'll draw a hole into society
17:50<andythenorth>that, and if we lost search, we'd face a traumatic loss of access to trivia
17:51<Elukka>there are a tonne of free mail services besides gmail and also a tonne of other perfectly functional search engines
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>this is actually true for lots of "clouds"
17:51<Elukka>if google went under then others would gain a huge surge of popularity
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>once you rely on them, you're lost if they suddenly break away
17:51<andythenorth>went under? I think someone would pick over the bigs
17:51<andythenorth>bits /s
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: imagine an energy crisis
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: who could afford running huge datacenters?
17:53<andythenorth>just do search slower :P
17:53<andythenorth>there would be fewer users then
17:53<andythenorth>time sharing?
17:53<andythenorth>answers by carrier pigeon?
17:53*andythenorth codes a bit of tram
17:53<andythenorth>this will be fun
17:54<andythenorth>we (I?) will have to set HP according to number of wagons
17:54<andythenorth>as RVs have no idea about powered wagons
17:54<andythenorth>cb36 is always pleasing
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17:57<Eddi|zuHause>that should be easy, just check on cargo-subtype, and give different results
17:58<andythenorth>it's fun
17:58*andythenorth ponders
17:59<andythenorth>for grf version 8(?) could we ditch the tiresome things like 'weight in 1/4 tons', speed * 3.2 ?
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>use nml :)
17:59<andythenorth>I mean, it's fun to do the calculations every time, but I'm wearing out certain keys
17:59<andythenorth>nml takes the fun away
17:59<andythenorth>nml is just like writing code
18:00<andythenorth>if I want to write code, I might as well write code I'm going to get paid for
18:00<andythenorth>I like nfo, it's arcane and pointless, thereby fun
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>i let my code write code...
18:00<andythenorth>code generators are eviiiil
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>yes. *pets cat*
18:02<andythenorth>so what is the point of action 0 prop 15 for RVs?
18:04<andythenorth>that's the one that sets speed :P
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: can set speed 4 times higher than prop 08
18:04<andythenorth>it's prop 08 that's redundant
18:04*andythenorth hits the upper limit of prop 14 (again)
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>can't cb36 override that with higher values?
18:05<Eddi|zuHause>and why can't articulated parts have weight?
18:07<andythenorth>ask Terkhen
18:08<andythenorth>is 50mph too fast for a freight tram, and is it too much of a speed jump?
18:08*andythenorth thinks it might be interesting
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>what's that in real world speeds?
18:08<andythenorth>introduced 2010
18:08<andythenorth>most players will have switched trams to trucks by then
18:08<andythenorth>so it will be just nicley annoying
18:08<Elukka>i think freight trams would make the most sense with YACD and FIRS... though YACD kinda sounds like it won't be finished
18:09<andythenorth>freight trams make sense anywhere you want transfers ;)
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>there are no sensible truck sets :(
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18:11<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: if we sorted out RVs I would make one
18:11<andythenorth>for as long as RVs remain crappy, I'm not bothering
18:11<Mazur>Don't worry, worthwhile RV's will be coming.
18:12*andythenorth wonders how to annoyingly exclude bulk cargo in the new tram
18:12<andythenorth>it's too late to work out bit masks
18:13<andythenorth>maybe tomorrow :P
18:13<andythenorth>also grain and stuff
18:13<andythenorth>this refit mask will be an arse probably
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18:15<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: the CarGo tram capacity is 15t for trailers, 7.5t for cab cars, which seems good
18:16<andythenorth>the current biggest HEQS tram is 20t per wagon
18:16<andythenorth>so the modern one will be faster, more powerful, lower capacity
18:16<andythenorth>ideal for express cargo in town :)
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>so no bulk cargo then?
18:16<andythenorth>I don't think so
18:17<Elukka>LV4 has worthwhile trucks
18:17<andythenorth>keep using the old tram (lower speed, higher capacity) or mining trucks
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18:19<andythenorth>wtf? I get new heads on the HEQS repo
18:19<andythenorth>how tiresome
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18:24<Eddi|zuHause>hg pull && hg rebase
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>hg pull -u && hg rebase
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18:33<andythenorth>I did pull before writing code
18:33<andythenorth>and before committing :(
18:33<andythenorth>merge fixed it
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>not only pull, but also update
18:34<andythenorth>yup - I always use hg pull -u ;)
18:34<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you forgot? :)
18:34<andythenorth>the rollback I did must have added new heads
18:34<andythenorth>why does a rollback create a head?
18:35<frosch123>andythenorth: do "hg pull --rebase"
18:35<andythenorth>maybe I rolled back my last commit :P
18:35<andythenorth>instead of the add
18:35<@Yexo>that is quite possible
18:35<andythenorth>possibly I just removed some useful code from HEQS :)
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18:36<@Yexo>you didn't, head is now r661 which is the merge between r659 and r660. r660 has r658 as parent
18:36<@Yexo>so if you did rollback before you started working this has indeed happened
18:36<@Yexo>since r659 was only adding a tag the merge was done automatically
18:36<@Yexo>and nothing is list
18:37<andythenorth>so what is the correct way to undo an add?
18:37<@Yexo>"hg forget" == "hg remove -Af"
18:37<andythenorth>I should have committed the changes I wanted to keep, and reverted the add
18:38*andythenorth -> bed
18:38<andythenorth>good night
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18:44<Terkhen>good night
18:45<Mazur>If you wish.
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19:32<tas_t_ice>is the in-game server list busted?
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20:17<Eddi|zuHause>apparently services are not particularly healthy over the past few weeks
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20:36<dihedral>would someone be interested in reviewing a minor patch regarding the admin network?
20:37<dihedral>without this patch connected admins know nothing about client id 1
20:38<dihedral>so basically the server itself
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20:42<dihedral>better :-P
20:48-!-Elu is now known as Elukka
21:20<tas_t_ice>the web server list is working fine, but the in-game server list is definitely busted
21:21<dihedral>in what way busted?
21:21<tas_t_ice>it's just empty, and find server doesn't seem to pull the list. entering the IP manually adds the server to the list
21:21<tas_t_ice>and that seems to work
21:23<dihedral>then you are not able to query the servers via udp
21:23<@DorpsGek>dihedral: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
21:25<tas_t_ice>maybe i need to reset my NAT router
21:25<dihedral>or your isp does not permit it
21:26<tas_t_ice>it was working about 6 hrs ago
21:28<dihedral>oh - i would say you are right there ^^
21:28<dihedral>but i am guessing either Rubidium or TrueBrain are aware of the fact
21:29<dihedral>there was a commit about the master server not long ago
21:29<dihedral>but they are very likely asleep at this time of the day / night
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21:36<Kerplow>hey im having an issue
21:42-!-Kerplow [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
21:44<dihedral>but it is nice to know people play openttd at this time of the day :-)
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---Logclosed Sat Oct 29 00:00:33 2011