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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-10-31

---Logopened Mon Oct 31 00:00:40 2011
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05:14<dihedral>a Celestar
05:14<dihedral>hello sir :-)
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06:51<appe>aint that a synthesizer?
06:52<appe>something hammond-ish
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08:27<Celestar>friggen UTMS
08:28<Celestar>I'm a whopping 20m from the base station.
08:28<Celestar>and the connection is unstable.
08:28<virrpanna>then you're probably too close
08:37<+michi_cc>Celestar: Maybe you should switch to UMTS :p
08:37<Celestar>michi_cc: lmao
08:37<Celestar>michi_cc: interesting. Have you tried putting m7 into Tile and moving type_and_height to an own struct?
08:38<+michi_cc>No, but
08:38<Celestar>I'm down 10% in performance if I do tha t:P
08:38<+michi_cc>it wouldn't make sense for me right now anyway, because I want a single Tile* for simplicity.
08:40<blathijs>No need to keep performance optimizations in place while you're completely rebuilding the infrastructure (breaking the assumptions the optimization is based on)
08:40<Celestar>I'm just trying various things
08:40<Celestar>trying to learn what actually happens :P
08:42<+michi_cc>m7 really is the best candidate for being split of because the common tile types (MP_CLEAR, MP_WATER, MP_TREES) don't use m7, and a split m7 means you don't waste cache loading something not accessed anyway.
08:48<appe>m7 is a bolt for me.
08:50<Celestar>a bolt? :P
08:51<Celestar>michi_cc: isn't the normal x86 cache loaded in blocks of 16 bytes anyway?
08:54<+michi_cc>Celestar: More like 64 bytes normally for current CPUs
08:58<Celestar>yeah I was thinking of older stuff :P
09:18<Celestar>O2 Germany fired 'Alice'
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09:51<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: they announced that quite a while ago
09:51<z-MaTRiX>hey Eddi|zuHause
09:53<blathijs>win 23
09:54<@planetmaker>lost 1 ;-)
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10:10<TrueBrain>blathijs: change your password :P
10:11<appe>what difference does a 64 system make, really?
10:12<frosch123>your adress space is bigger than 4 gb, so you can leak more
10:13<appe>ah, yes. the physical ram limit
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10:18<Eddi|zuHause>it's not the physical ram limit, there's PAE for that... it's the ram-per-process limit
10:18<Eddi|zuHause> <- thoughts?
10:20<MNIM>what is it going to be?
10:20<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: Thought about including a Schattenbahnhof? (If vertical space permits, that is.)
10:21<MNIM>also, legend?
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: yes, there are switches for that there already
10:21<MNIM>michi_cc: does schattenbahnhoff mean shadow station?
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: yes
10:21<@peter1138>openttd's new track laying system
10:24<MNIM>hah, you wish
10:24<MNIM>at least I picked up something from all those rail magazines :P
10:26<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: Obviously I can't see the real heights, but the "spiral" at the lower left appears to me to have quite steep slopes with the all the over-under-over
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i have that concern as well
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>not sure how to solve it
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>can't make it any larger, and a direct curve doesn't really fit
10:28<Eddi|zuHause>or would have too narrow radius
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10:37<appe>that word is fantastic.
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11:00<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: the red narrow loop is 3.1m long, so getting 10cm height difference would be around 3%
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>more problematic is the grey outer loop
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>it must have bigger height difference, and is only 2.9m
11:02<Eddi|zuHause>(the grades of downwards tracks is rather don't-care)
11:02<@peter1138>just make the gap too small and use graphics trickery to make it look taller
11:04<MNIM>Grey means tunnel, or what?
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12:34<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23068 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Add: [NewGRF] Long date of last service for vehicles, also available in the purchase list.
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12:39<@peter1138>when are unpurchased vehicles serviced? :)
12:41<George>Hi. Question about CB 1D. When I add the wagon in the middle of the train, what var contains the position of the inserted wagon? I want to allow some wagon to be attached only at even position. Is that ppossible?
12:42<George>would it be var 40?
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12:44<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds like something which should be in extra callback info... but i don't actually know
12:46<George>I can't find any additional CB info for CB 1D
12:47<@planetmaker>peter1138, the final testing / QA :-)
12:47<@peter1138># it's the final testing
12:47<@peter1138>da na na naaaaa
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>George: it sounds like var 40 would contain info on the original wagon chain that the wagon was moved from...
12:48<George>Eddi|zuHause: That is useless
12:48<frosch123>George: cb 1d is only ever called for the last wagon of a train
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>but i cannot confirm that right now
12:49<frosch123>when inserting a wagon in the middle that means that all wagons after it are removed first, and then reattached one by one again
12:49<frosch123>when any of those cb 1d fail, the inserting fails
12:50<George>So, the wagons after would not be deattached?
12:50<frosch123>no, the inserting will fail
12:50<frosch123>i.e. ottd makes sure that grfs do not have to distingush inserting in the middle or at the end
12:51<frosch123>just assume the train is build from the front to the end
12:51<frosch123>only appending, no insertion
12:51<@planetmaker>nice variable, michi_cc :-) I shall make use of it in ogfx+trains, too :-)
12:51<@planetmaker>You add more and more incentive to actually update that grf again ;-)
12:52<George>frosch123: Interesting. I have to think about it. And where is it written, that CB1D would be called for all the wagons after attached?
12:52<@planetmaker>George, that's of no concern really
12:52<frosch123>i guess it is not written explicitly, but it is the only way to keep stuff consistent :)
12:52<@planetmaker>you only need to consider being the last. It's much easier that way
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: was there no var 80+ slot available anymore?
12:54<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: 80+x slots are generally not "available"
12:54<George>Does it mean, that the train length would be the position of insertions+1?
12:54<@planetmaker>uhm... no?
12:55<frosch123>George: if you have a train A C D and you insert B between A and C. then cb 1d is called for attaching B to A, for C to A B and for D to A B C
12:55<frosch123>i.e. B does not know about C or D
12:55<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: the question is: what is value of var40 during the attaching of B to A? 1? 2?
12:55<George>Yes, I understand that
12:56<George>is it 2?
12:56<George>Oh, Eddi|zuHause already said that :)
12:57<frosch123>the wagon is not yet attached to the chain when the cb is called
12:57<George>so it is 1?
12:58<George>and so I can't check the number of wagons in the row with var 41???
12:58<George>because the wagon is alone?
12:59<George>looks like vars 4x for a wagon are useless in that case :(
12:59<frosch123>you can count vehicles from the back
13:00<George>frosch123: So, what should I check to diallow let's say 3 wagons with the same ID in the row?
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: next issue on the list: vehicles that are both articulated and dualheaded :)
13:02<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: possible spec-ish: set prop 13 to 1 for the front part, and 1 for the start of the back part, 0 for all other articulated parts
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13:02<Eddi|zuHause>that second 1 marks the spot where intermediate vehicles will be attached
13:03<@planetmaker>George, cb1d and checking the number of wagons with the same vehicleID as the current one
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: but that doesn't work, when the wagon is not attached yet
13:04<Eddi|zuHause>George: maybe you should use the start/stop callback instead?
13:04<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, but I know how many of it previously are attached
13:04<frosch123>yeah, i do not see a way to code that
13:05<frosch123>start/stop is only called for the front engine
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>George: at that point the full consist is known
13:05<frosch123>so that won't work either
13:06<George>planetmaker: I do not want to disallow 3 wagons with the same ID, I only want to disallow them in a row
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123/George: you can use var61 in the start/stop callback
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>so maybe it's possible to iterate through the whole consist
13:07<frosch123>you could use variable 61 to check the vehicle types on "manually"
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>although i don't really see how iteration would be done in NFO
13:08<frosch123>i.e. during cb1d: get the consist length, and use var 61 to read the engine types of the last two wagons
13:08<frosch123>other than that, this might be a usecase for scope 5 :p
13:09<@planetmaker>uh oh num_vehs_in_vehid_chain, i.e. var 0x60 with type 81 not useful here?
13:10<@planetmaker>or rather... actually var 0x41, if there must not be more than n consecutive of the same ID
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13:11<frosch123>yay, "ergooki special"
13:11<frosch123>sometimes captchas raise weird questions :p
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: var41 does not contain useful values, that's the problem
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: because the wagon is not part of the chain yet
13:13<@planetmaker>hm, yes ok :-)
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13:41<Eddi|zuHause>mäh, my topology is wrong...
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>need to get the inner track to the outside...
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14:03<z-MaTRiX>yeah my favorite video:Mosquito killed by a Laser
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14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23069 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt:
14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: tamil - 54 changes by aswn
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18:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23070 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Add: [NewGRF] House variable 0x64.
18:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23071 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Allow passing custom extra data through the generic NewGRF animation helper class.
18:31<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23072 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: [NewGRF] House callback 0x148.
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18:37<Eddi|zuHause>is that an "MB should finally release his house set" commit? :p
18:38<__ln__>does it come with foreman and cuddy?
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18:44<+michi_cc>The 'unsupported in NML' list got longer again :p
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18:45<Eddi|zuHause>these lazy bastards...
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's been 6 hours and the long service date is still not supported!!!1!11einself
18:47<MNIM>they do that in german too?
18:47<MNIM>or just you :P
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think i have ever seen that in a non-ironic environment...
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19:00<@Yexo><Eddi|zuHause> it's been 6 hours and the long service date is still not supported!!!1!11einself <- lies!
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19:04<@Yexo>and there are no house vars at all in nml, so I'm not going to care about that one :p
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19:39<Eddi|zuHause>tzz... forum users... create a thread "please make roads with signs" directly above the "UKRoads /w Signs" thread...
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19:40<Eddi|zuHause>(or was that thread moved there later?)
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20:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23073 /trunk/.hgignore: -Update: Add another generated file to .hgignore.
20:21<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23074 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Add Vehicle::GetEngine() to simplify code.
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20:23<Elukka>there's 7 billion people now
20:23<Elukka>12 years back there were 6, 12 (a bit less or a bit more depending on how things go) years from now there'll be 8 billion
20:23<Elukka>this will end well
20:23<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23075 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add GetGRF() and GetGRFID() methods to Engine and Vehicle to simplify code.
20:26<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23076 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Separate code for NewGRF and default refit masks more strictly.
20:29<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23077 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Change: [NewGRF] Enforce that the default cargo type of a vehicle is one of the refittable cargos in case of refittable engines.
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 01 00:00:43 2011