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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-11-16

---Logopened Wed Nov 16 00:00:38 2011
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02:40<@planetmaker>moin
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02:42<andythenorth>hi planetmaker
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03:19<dihedral>greetings
03:23<@planetmaker>hi dihedral
03:28-!-Celestar [~dax@89.204.154.81] has joined #openttd
03:28<Celestar>\o
03:35<dihedral>oi
03:38<@Terkhen>good morning
03:44<appe>morning
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04:36*Celestar doesn't like the behavior of "raise land"
04:37<Celestar>because it doesn't actually raise land.
04:37<MNIM>that's... kinda odd?
04:40<@planetmaker>should it be called level land to h+1?
04:40<Celestar>planetmaker: I think it should preserve the shape of the levelled land?
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04:41<@planetmaker>possibly
04:41<@planetmaker>it should raise all covered corners by +1
04:41<@planetmaker>s/corners/grid nodes/
04:43<@planetmaker>at least in the SE it would be much better
04:43<Celestar>I might do that :P
04:45<Celestar>can you default sound and music to -snull -mnull in the config file?
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04:46<@planetmaker>I guess not. But you can select NoSound and NoMusic sets
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04:47<@planetmaker>oh no! andy the frosch joined again. Nearly on the same second! ;-)
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04:47<frosch123>i scared him
04:47<@planetmaker>hide and seek? :-)
04:48*andythenorth client froze :P
04:48<andythenorth>s
04:49<andythenorth>silly old colloquy
04:50<@planetmaker>andythenorth: give limechat a shot
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04:52<andythenorth>how shell-esque
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04:53<andythenorth>so far nobody has pointed out that YACS will make the world end
04:55<@peter1138>so will YAEZ, YACD, YAIM and YAMA
04:55<@peter1138>and YAPP is terrible because block signals are always superior, or soemthing like that
04:56<b_jonas>it's not the end of the world, it will just kill OTTD
04:56<b_jonas>:)
05:00<Celestar>YACS?
05:00<Celestar>cargo scheme?
05:02<andythenorth>cargo scheme
05:03<@peter1138>hmm
05:03<@peter1138>i wonder how celestar's CD compares to YACD
05:04<frosch123>isn't the biggest diffeence in the handling of towns?
05:05<frosch123>one takes stations as destinations, the other one takes houses as destination afaik
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05:15<Celestar>peter1138: the biggest problem of mine was that in the last version, only a single route was computed.
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05:18<Celestar>it wasn't a design constraint, I was just a little lazy :P
05:35<@peter1138>:)
05:39<andythenorth>with the houses as destination, you get compelling madness on PAX routes
05:39<Celestar>I'd have to implement an own pathfinder which can return mutliple paths.
05:39<andythenorth>but you also can't do anything until there are decent RVs available :P
05:39<andythenorth>lazy pax won't walk anywhere :(
05:39<andythenorth>and also...you just end up wanting an AI to run your pax for you :P
05:39<Celestar>haha
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05:40<Celestar>peter1138: I|m sure I have the code .. somewhere
05:40<Celestar>but I also know it'd OLD
05:43<@peter1138>YACD is great for pax
05:43<@peter1138>but less so for freight :(
05:43<Noldo>why is that?
05:43<Eddi|zuHause>freight may benefit from YACDist
05:44<Celestar>who said that pax/mail and freight should have the same system?
05:45<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. passengers will move to all possible destinations, and are not generated if the destination is not reachable. and freight will always be generated for a reachable destination
05:46<@peter1138>i never played with cargodist
05:47<@peter1138>conflicts !
05:47<Eddi|zuHause>it's great, but you have less incentive to connect up remote locations
05:49<@planetmaker>why should fright only want to go to already connected destinations?
05:49<@planetmaker>*freight
05:49<@planetmaker>fright might well do :-P
05:51<@peter1138>gah, too many changes for me to update it
05:51<@peter1138>job for michi_cc ;)
05:56<Celestar>hm.
05:57*Celestar is looking for an appropriate translation for 'Sesselfurzer'
05:58-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has quit []
05:58<appe>is that german?
05:58<appe>i love the long hard german words
05:58<appe>like schmetterling
05:58<appe>or geschwindigkeitbegrenzung
05:59<Eddi|zuHause>http://dict.leo.org/forum/viewUnsolvedquery.php?idThread=190195&idForum=1&lp=ende&lang=de
06:00<@peter1138>bah, they asked me to choose a mobile phone
06:00<@planetmaker>samsung nexus?
06:01<@planetmaker>available from tomorrow :-P
06:01<@planetmaker>at least in the UK, or so I read
06:01<@peter1138>heh
06:01<Celestar>HTC Sensation?
06:02<Celestar>well yeah. "pencil pusher" .. but that's way too weak.
06:02<appe>nexus prime <3.
06:02<@peter1138>hmm
06:03<@peter1138>doesn't take long for marten to get mopey
06:03<@peter1138>about 3 steps
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07:18<Eddi|zuHause>i have a feeling fs#3569 is a prerequisite for trains driving backwards
07:25<@peter1138>hmm
07:25<@peter1138>i can't remember
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07:42<Eddi|zuHause>it might be easier if the anchor point was moved to the vehicle position, and the vehicle position was moved to the center of the (shortened) vehicle
07:43<Eddi|zuHause>but you might have problems with odd-length vehicles then, they'd need a fractional position
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08:02<andythenorth>hmm
08:02<andythenorth>anchor points and positions - reminds me of coding flash games
08:03<andythenorth>in flash, each object is a new plane, on which the nested objects exist.
08:03<andythenorth>so you make good friends with localToGlobal and globalToLocal when you want to do collision detection :P
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>hm... Civ5 stopped working :(
08:13<Eddi|zuHause>it starts up, plays the music, but after the initial dialog i don't get to the main menu
08:17<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: how is Civ5?
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>it's ok
08:17<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: I found Civ 4 pretty great especially with BTS
08:17<Eddi|zuHause>it's a step backwards in complexity, compared to BTS
08:17<Celestar>is it?
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, shorter tech tree, fewer units, smaller armies
08:19<Celestar>even shorter tech tree? :P
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>the latter enforced by the one-unit-per-tile rule
08:19<Celestar>the one-unit-per-tile rule sounds pretty helpful
08:19<Celestar>because a single battle in Civ4 could take like 5 minutes.
08:19<Eddi|zuHause>yep, gameplay is totally different because of that
08:19<Celestar>how do you protect settlers then? :D
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>well, one fighting and one non-fighting unit
08:21<Eddi|zuHause>the "embarking" feature is quite good. you just move your unit to a water tile, don't need a ship (lose all remaining movement points, though)
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08:32*andythenorth wants to play warcraft 1 or 2 again :|
08:32<andythenorth>open warcraft 1?
08:34<V453000>:D
08:35<@peter1138>andythenorth, graphics look too complicated
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09:18<@Belugas>ShowMessage('Good '+ SalutationFor(TimeZone) + ' everyone!');
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09:24<Celestar>rofl
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09:33<TomyLobo>when calculating transport distances for revenue, what is counted? industry-industry distance or station-station distance?
09:33<Xaroth>Belugas: that's just being lazy...
09:33<Xaroth>TomyLobo: station-station
09:33<TomyLobo>thanks
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09:42<@planetmaker>station-sign to station-sign to be exact
09:45<b_jonas>that's because you're also not paying for transporting the products between the industry and the station. little invisible man are doing that automatically for you.
09:53<@Belugas>Xaroth : what do you expect from me, right when sitting down, without my second coffee???
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10:11<Xaroth>Belugas: a cup of tea would be nice..
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10:33<Hawson>'morning all
10:33<Hawson>(or other appropriate time of day)
10:34<Hawson>Is it possible to use an HTTP proxy for *only* the online content downloads? I understand that the network game protocol uses something else.
10:36-!-Swissfan91 [~Swissfan9@host-78-145-58-1.as13285.net] has joined #openttd
10:36<Swissfan91>anyone here know about drawing/coding newobjects?
10:38<@Yexo>yes, but see the topic: Don't ask to ask, just ask
10:39<Swissfan91>im drawing some ski pistes. obviously they are on snow tiles. If i want them to change as the snowline moves, do I draw them for all of the snow/grass transition tiles and the plain grass tile?
10:39<@planetmaker>no
10:39<andythenorth>you might be able to use the ground tile
10:39<@planetmaker>you code it properly to use the ground tiles
10:41<Swissfan91>so i place the things that i want on a blue sprite tile, and it takes whatever ground is under it?
10:42<@planetmaker>that's feasible, yes
10:42<Rubidium>Hawson: it is not possible to configure a proxy for the online content
10:42<@planetmaker>Swissfan91: have a look at the source of opengfx+landscape
10:42<Swissfan91>would it be possible to say, have all of the piste furniture disappear when the tile becomes snow/grass and then grass?
10:42<@planetmaker>look at the implementation of the company land
10:43<@planetmaker>it's quite advanced, though
10:43<Rubidium>Hawson: unless it's a transparent proxy, but then you don't need to configure it
10:43<frosch123>Swissfan91: yes, you can show a regular path in summer
10:43<@planetmaker>can be made much simpler if you just query the tiletype
10:43<Swissfan91>i see, ok. so in terms of what i need to make as a drawer..
10:44-!-Celestar [~dax@89.204.154.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:45<lugo>http://i.imgur.com/0cluB.jpg
10:46<Swissfan91>perhaps two tiles, both on a blue tile. one with the furniture there for a snow tile, and the other as i would want it to appear with grass underneath?
10:46<frosch123>yes
10:46<Hawson>Rubidium: Thanks. I was afraid of that.
10:46<Hawson>Is there a "manual" workaround?
10:47<Hawson>I can download files via a proxy myself, but then what should I do with them?
10:47<frosch123>Hawson: http://bananas.openttd.org/en/
10:47<Swissfan91>ok, cool. thanks guys.
10:47<Hawson>frosch123: yeah, found that. :)
10:48<@Yexo>Hawson: extract them and place the tar files in the directory as indicated by readme.txt
10:49<Swissfan91>also - how do I make it so trees appear on my tile? and that they mirror whichever tree set is loaded? Is this a coding technique?
10:49<@planetmaker>yes
10:49<Rubidium>Hawson: you need to be able to connect to the openttd server on a custom protocol to get the metadata of the content. That connection is used as fallback.
10:49<@planetmaker>select a tree sprite and say that it should be shown
10:50<Rubidium>Hawson: so if you get a list of content tou download, then you should be able to download it over the fallback "protocol"
10:50<Hawson>Accurate documentation. Novel.
10:50<Swissfan91>ah ok, cool.
10:50<Rubidium>Hawson: so in there is basically no need for support for a http proxy
10:50<Hawson>Rubidium: yeah, for whatever reason, I can get the manifest lists, but not the actual files
10:51<Rubidium>Hawson: in openttd.cfg search for the no_http_content_downloads setting and change that to true
10:51<Hawson>rather, the "files" I get (e.g. OpenGFX.tar) are really HTML dumps from a filter
10:51<Hawson>hmm...interesting
10:52<Hawson>score!
10:52<Hawson>awesome.
10:52<Hawson>Thank you.
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11:29<@planetmaker>Are there more landscape replacement NewGRFs other than OpenGFX+Landscape, NoGridLand, Toyland2Mars, Japanese?
11:29<@planetmaker>and Alpine?
11:30<TrueBrain>"
11:30<TrueBrain>My name is Kelvin Kerkular I am 31 years old, and my junior sister name is
11:30<TrueBrain>Vivian Kerkular, 28 years old, we are Citizens of Liberia, currently
11:30<TrueBrain>residing in the refugee camp in Ghana. I am contacting you solely on a business
11:30<TrueBrain>related issues.
11:30<TrueBrain>"
11:30<TrueBrain>I love emails
11:31<__ln___>he wants to do business with OpenTTD, i presume
11:31<TrueBrain>would be an epic reply :D
11:38<blathijs>I think it's awesome that they have internet connection in that refugee camp, though
11:38<@planetmaker>satellite telephone
11:38<@planetmaker>:-P
11:38<TrueBrain>one hell of an expensive data plan
11:39<@planetmaker>:-)
11:44<TrueBrain>so .. okay ... now I really want to publish my HG, as I want the CF to compile it ..
11:45<TrueBrain>how to do that .. hmm ..
11:45<@planetmaker>The hg or the patch queue?
11:45<TrueBrain>well, the CF can't handle queues, so it has to be committed I guess
11:46<@planetmaker>It could pull from a repo with applied mq
11:47<TrueBrain>oeh, nice
11:47<frosch123>TrueBrain: committing is a bidirectional thing
11:47<frosch123>qfinish + qimport
11:49<TrueBrain>its funny .. you can pull from a MQ, but you cannot push :P
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11:52<Swissfan91>anyone think they'll actually use my TARS new objects when finished? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=980385#p980385
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>TrueBrain: hg push --mq?
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>of course, the mq-repo must be separate from the normal repo
11:54<TrueBrain>I want to push the result :)
11:54<TrueBrain>and I fail :(
11:54<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23234 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio_func.h network/network_content.cpp): -Fix [FS#4840]: crash when after downloading content
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12:16<Swissfan91>any requests for mountainside furniture?
12:18<Eddi|zuHause>fields and meadows that are preserved under snow
12:18-!-sla_ro|master [~slaco@95.76.27.160] has joined #openttd
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>(including snowy fences/hedges/...)
12:20<@planetmaker>that's quite a steep request for a NewGRF, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
12:21<Swissfan91>that is something i really want to. I am saving that for the industry, though.
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>what? if you don't need auto-placement, this is a good use case for objects
12:22<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you want NewFields :P
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>i know
12:22<andythenorth>frosch123 got stuck with those
12:22<andythenorth>we had an implementation + test newgrf
12:22<andythenorth>but there were....issues
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>that was before we had objects
12:23<Swissfan91>other farms manage it in ECS and/or FIRS don't they?
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>Swissfan91: there's currently only one type of field
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>Swissfan91: industries can only say "plant fields around this"
12:24<andythenorth>we toyed with the idea of industries building objects...
12:24<andythenorth>basically give it some layouts, and have them build on a cb
12:24<Swissfan91>i am completely lost here. sure you could just make an industry which is a barn, and then a meadow field around it similar to the Animal Farm in ECS/
12:25<andythenorth>Swissfan91: I / we hijacked your question ;)
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>ideally you would have multiple kinds of fields. farms may plant "wheat" fields, forests may plant "tree" fields, dairy farms may plant "cow meadows"
12:25<Swissfan91>oh i see, i never knew there was only one type allowed.
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>power stations could plant power lines as fields
12:27<frosch123>i wrote a spec for that last week :p
12:27<z-MaTRiX>hey-ho
12:29<Swissfan91>ah well, that may have thrown a spanner in the works of my industry set then.
12:29<Swissfan91>any other requests for mountainside furniture?
12:30<frosch123>mines
12:30<frosch123>(old deserted mines)
12:31<andythenorth>frosch123: proof of spec?
12:31<andythenorth>:P
12:32<Swissfan91>i was thinking more alpine - for skiing primarily - but i will add that to my overall list.
12:32<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/761/ <- i was looking into which cb could get new results since grfv8
12:33<frosch123>but drawing foundations and autoslope may get new results as well
12:33<andythenorth>frosch123: effect 1 has some interesting possibilities...
12:34<andythenorth>would any control be needed over *where* new objects are built ?
12:34<frosch123>i would expect newobjects to have placement restrictions, which do not allow many possitions anyway :p
12:34*andythenorth would rather not over-complicate it
12:35<frosch123>so, there is no use in specifying exact positions, and north/south/west/east does not sound useful
12:35<frosch123>max distance might be possible
12:35<frosch123>or even needed
12:36<andythenorth>radius, not manhattan :P
12:36<andythenorth>I can imagine cases for N/S/E/W - to match specific graphics
12:36<andythenorth>I wouldn't be the one wanting to use them
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12:38<Swissfan91>talking of foundations - how do I go about drawing a building that is say, 2x2, and has two flat squares and two slopes squares?
12:40<andythenorth>frosch123: nice spec :)
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12:54<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=57396 <-- someone has patience?
12:54<@planetmaker>I must not answer, it would be rude ;-)
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13:16<Wolf01>evenink
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13:44<LordAro>evening
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23235 /trunk/src/lang/serbian.txt:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: serbian - 32 changes by etran
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13:59<Hawson> /win 2
13:59<murr4y> /fail 2
14:01<Rubidium>/whythespace?
14:03*Hawson shrugs
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14:15<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: is it appropriate to publish your cargo scheme proposals to the newgrf wiki yet?
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15:23<appe>ah, the swedish grf sets and state808.
15:24<appe>a very, very intriguing combination
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15:26<@planetmaker>state808?
15:26<andythenorth>state808?
15:26<andythenorth>or 808 State?
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15:26<@planetmaker>appe: then make sure to use the newest edition of the rails ;-)
15:28<appe>i was so into the game i didnt realize i wrote state808
15:28<appe>if a swedish x2 train used pacific 202 as onboard traveling music, i would die of joy.
15:28<appe>planetmaker: oh, oh!
15:29<appe>planetmaker: i think i do, actually.
15:29<@planetmaker>0.7.2? :-)
15:29<@planetmaker>It's only a few hours old :-P
15:29<appe>ah, heh
15:29<appe>where does one find it?
15:30<@planetmaker>banananananananananananananananananssssss
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15:38<chill>TrueBrain: Thank you very much for taking the time setting up the compile farm, everything works perfectly now.
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15:38<TrueBrain>np; happy to see the CF put to good use :)
15:38<chill>Also, hi all.
15:39<chill>I will make good use of it anyway :)
15:39<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23236 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23141): Construction of objects was always rejected.
15:41<chill>Well I have some announcements to make now. See you later all.
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16:07<Swissfan91>to any foru moderator - i was thinking that a thread whereby people/sets can request that they need a drawer or coder, and drawers and coders can offer themselves and promote their skills. does this exist already?
16:09<andythenorth>graphics forum
16:09<andythenorth>graphics development sub forum
16:10<andythenorth>you create a thread there
16:10<andythenorth>for your set ;)
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>put "artist needed"/"coder needed" into the thread title
16:11<andythenorth>yup
16:11<Swissfan91>my set already has one :P i meant a general one for everyone.
16:12-!-planetmaker is now known as planet-of-frogs
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think that's needed
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>the frogs have invaded?
16:13<Swissfan91>because, for my set, i need a coder for example. and aside from learning it myself, i dont really know what coders are out there. There could be a newobjects coder sat there doing nothing, not knowing of any sets that need a coder.
16:13<andythenorth>Swissfan91: not needed, won't work :)
16:13<andythenorth>there are almost no coders
16:13<andythenorth>as far as we know...
16:13-!-planet-of-frogs is now known as planetmaker
16:14<Swissfan91>no coders in general? or none for newobjects?
16:15<andythenorth>'few coders' would be more accurate
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>"numbers of coders * development time per coder / number of projects" converges towards 0
16:15<Swissfan91>ahhh :(
16:16<Swissfan91>no lovely ski pistes for anyone to ski on this xmas then!
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>Swissfan91: you could try to reuse code from OpenGFX+Landscape for the ski pists
16:17<@Yexo>Swissfan91: finding a coder is usually a lot easier if you produce graphics first and post them in your topic
16:18<Swissfan91>i have been, Yexo.
16:18<Swissfan91>a tiny amount, i admit.
16:18<@planetmaker>just keep going :-)
16:18<Swissfan91>i am quite worried that Yexo is seeing a thread with no graphics in though? :S
16:19<@Yexo>no, I'm seeing them
16:19<@Yexo>I didn't look at the forum at all before making my previous remark ;)
16:19<Swissfan91>ahhh, well. humble pie for one. :D
16:19<@Yexo>the last graphics file you posted doesn't have the correct format though. The blue needs to be rectangular, like in the one before
16:20<Swissfan91>even though the tile is blue, it needs a blue rectangle around?
16:21<@planetmaker>Swissfan91: the lift doesn't need the tile below
16:21<@planetmaker>it just needs a normal rectangle around
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>Swissfan91: yes, otherwise you'd draw white stuff
16:21<@planetmaker>it's then the coder's responsibility to place it properly
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16:22<Swissfan91>so i should be drawing straight onto the snow tile? I thought i was told that if you want the sprite to be placed on whatever the ground tile, you use a blue base.
16:22<andythenorth>Swissfan91: 1 min
16:22<LordAro>evening
16:22<andythenorth>you can look at some FIRS spritesheets, it might help you figure it out...
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>Swissfan91: no, you don't need to paint it on the snow tile. just flood-fill everything that is white with blue
16:22<andythenorth>Swissfan91: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/file/9d17cf2a8d3f/sprites/graphics/industries
16:23<andythenorth>use the 'raw' view on a file to see the png
16:23<andythenorth>e.g. http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/raw-file/9d17cf2a8d3f/sprites/graphics/industries/aluminiumplant.png
16:24<andythenorth>Swissfan91: http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/raw-file/9d17cf2a8d3f/sprites/graphics/industries/quarry_waterpit.png
16:24<andythenorth>http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/raw-file/9d17cf2a8d3f/sprites/graphics/industries/cementplant.png
16:26<Swissfan91>i've edited my post. like that?
16:26<Swissfan91>just made neater, obviously.
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, basically
16:27<Swissfan91>potentially seperated out as in the links from Andy.
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>the separation is actually unnecessary, since everything between the sprites is ignored
16:28<andythenorth>but it's much easier to code with a regular grid
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>but it might make templating easier if you have the separation
16:28<Swissfan91>ah yes, ok.
16:28<@Yexo>Swissfan91: it's easier to code when there is white between the different tiles
16:28<andythenorth>and I would find it odd without the white dividers, they make it easier to code x, y, height, width for action 1
16:28<@Yexo>since you can clearly see where a rectangle begins / ends
16:28<andythenorth>Swissfan91: I had to ask all these questions too when I started coding :)
16:29<@planetmaker>yes. I'd not enjoy coding w/o separator
16:29<Swissfan91>are the blue boxes that you have cropped yours into just random, or are they set sizes?
16:29<andythenorth>despite I know how to use the same chroma key blue in motion graphics for TV, I never saw sprite sheets until TTD ;)
16:29<@planetmaker>width = tile width. Height = fits most
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>Swissfan91: they are fixed sizes
16:29<@planetmaker>or height = ground tile height
16:29<andythenorth>Swissfan91: for FIRS vary in size, but the separation between them is constant on the x axis
16:29<Eddi|zuHause>Swissfan91: so you can use the same xsize/ysize and xrel/yrel values
16:30<@planetmaker>it doesn't hurt to use a (usually) too hight box
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16:30<@planetmaker>It's always a very good idea to use a box exactly a tile wide
16:30<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: wrt YACS - now we await comment from MB and others...
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes
16:31<@planetmaker>(and draw the stuff such that the alignment wrt a tile placed in the very bottom would fit)
16:31<andythenorth>I propose Eddi|zuHause as benevolent dictator of YACS
16:31<Swissfan91>ahh ok, i think i'm getting there.
16:31<@planetmaker>andythenorth: first we get the properties. then we can adjust the wiki. My 2ct
16:32<andythenorth>fine by me
16:32<@planetmaker>and if we don't rush it, it'll all be fine by then :-)
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16:32<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: if we treat YACS as a spec that newgrfs comply with or don't, we can ignore hazardous. Say it's out of spec for YACS compliance. Leave it in the wiki.
16:37<appe>http://fac.dndr.se/poo/new_dump/telefon2.wav
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>i think that's a bad idea
16:37<appe>(it's audio, and it's mine)
16:37<appe>oh, this is not #ambient.
16:37<appe>please ignore
16:38<Swissfan91>edited again > http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=980429#p980429
16:38<Swissfan91>is that correct now?
16:39<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it can't be removed because we don't know who's using it?
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16:44<Swissfan91>andy?
16:44<andythenorth>hazardous is a crappy class for refitting with, it's silly. Might be useful for doing clever vehicle things, like speed tricks
16:44<andythenorth>Swissfan91: looks fine to me
16:45<Swissfan91>thanks for your help.
16:45<andythenorth>good luck :)
16:46<andythenorth>you should learn to code next
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16:50<Swissfan91>give me a chance :P maybe next year in my gap year.
16:51<andythenorth>it's only 1s and 0s :P
16:51<andythenorth>and some other numbers
16:51<andythenorth>and the letters a-f
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>http://media.techeblog.com/images/_funnykeyboards_1.jpg
16:52<Swissfan91>well.. if its that simple.. we should all be coders :D
16:52<Swissfan91>i have found out the drawing is just a bunch of pixels
16:52<Swissfan91>creating noise on the other hand... oh dear.
16:53<andythenorth>Swissfan91: pop quiz, which direction does the light come from? :)
16:53<Swissfan91>top right?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>light direction - the bane of andythenorth's apprentice years
16:53<andythenorth>Swissfan91: whack whack oops
16:54<andythenorth>bottom right, high up
16:54<andythenorth>there you go, I saved you some pain ;)
16:54<Swissfan91>now i'm confused!
16:54<Rubidium>andythenorth: whichever direction Simon Foster fancied at time of drawing?
16:54<andythenorth>Rubidium: that is true
16:54<andythenorth>if you take the mode, you'll get bottom right
16:55<andythenorth>if you look closely at the vehicles, he clearly constructed a 3-light film lighting rig for each one :P
16:55<andythenorth>which follows each vehicle around
16:55<andythenorth>the default RVs are lit by Lies!
16:55<Swissfan91>so the shading on this (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=969787#p969787) is wrong?
16:56<andythenorth>not really, that one's ok
16:56<andythenorth>there should be heavy shadow under the overhang of the roof though
16:57<Eddi|zuHause>there should be more noise :p
16:57<andythenorth>http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/raw-file/9d17cf2a8d3f/sprites/graphics/industries/dairyfarm.png
16:57<Swissfan91>i toyed around with shadow. but then i thought, surely the big building should make a shadow on the small building?
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>and the wires look weird
16:58<Swissfan91>don't mention the N word Eddi!
16:58<andythenorth>noise is easy
16:58<Swissfan91>the wires are weird, they're just put there for show.
16:59<Swissfan91>obviously not much of a show for some people :P
16:59<andythenorth>Swissfan91: the shadows in ottd are not at all consistent. Doesn't matter
16:59<andythenorth>when it looks good to draw shadow, draw shadow
16:59<andythenorth>when it doesn't, don't :)
17:00<Swissfan91>ah, ok. any tips on drawing noise then?
17:00<andythenorth>use three closely related shades
17:00<andythenorth>not more
17:00<andythenorth>look at the roofs on these buildings ;) http://hg.openttdcoop.org/firs/raw-file/9d17cf2a8d3f/sprites/graphics/industries/machineshop.png
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17:01<Swissfan91>three closely related shades from the OTTD palette?
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>you have a dead pixel in your image :p
17:02<andythenorth>moi?
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you :)
17:02<andythenorth>meh
17:02<andythenorth>where's that?
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>in the white area below the 7th sprite
17:04<andythenorth>oh yes
17:04<andythenorth>pixels have to die somewhere I guess
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>ever since i had dead insects in my screen, i am really sensitive to odd pixels...
17:05<Swissfan91>out of interest, why have you chopped the buildings up? To keep them in the 1x1 and 1x2 limit?
17:05<andythenorth>yup
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>VLC is driving me crazy, because it turns the mouse cursor into a black pixel
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>Swissfan91: you cannot draw left or right of a tile
17:05<andythenorth>Swissfan91: industries don't have a limit, but the graphics for each tile need to be sliced to fit the tile
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>Swissfan91: only above
17:05<andythenorth>there are many ways to do it
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>this is especially problematic if you want to draw wires between two pylons that are 2 tiles apart (to allow building infrastructure inbetween)
17:07<Swissfan91>ah right, ok. eventually, i would like a 2x2 building that is on two flat tiles and two slopes tiles. is this a problem for both coder and drawer?
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17:08<Eddi|zuHause>no. as long as the tiles are continguous, it's no problem
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>the slicing can even be done automatically
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>just provide one giant sprite
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17:08<Swissfan91>how do sloped tiles work? in the sense that do you draw your own foundations, does the game do it?
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>the game draws the foundation if you tell it to
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17:09<andythenorth>game can provide foundations from the base set graphics
17:09<andythenorth>they vary by climate
17:10<Swissfan91>i see.
17:10<Swissfan91>brb
17:10<andythenorth>you can also provide your own foundations, but it's a pain
17:10*andythenorth -> bed
17:13<@planetmaker>night, andythenorth
17:13<andythenorth>bye
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18:02<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23237 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: ignore special characters, such as the train "character", when determining a fallback font
18:09<@planetmaker>g'night
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18:13<Wolf01>'night
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19:43<TrueBrain>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/769/ <- well, that is a new one ....
19:45<+glx>nice one
19:45<TrueBrain>they are starting to become rather creative
19:45<+glx>I like the fact london is west african country
19:46<TrueBrain>they paid the relocation from the money
19:48<+glx>it's clear it's based on a template
19:48<+glx>(and filled by someone not really knowing how it should be filled ;) )
19:59<Eddi|zuHause>so where can i get my ?4.5 Million Euro Only?
20:03<DabuYu>where's the list of tracking numbers? :)
20:03<TrueBrain>I left that out
20:03<TrueBrain>I don't want you guys to steal my money
20:03<DabuYu>lol
20:04<DabuYu>it would be interesting to check if those numbers actually all originate from the same location
20:05<TrueBrain>you are just jealous I was on the mail list!
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>i never get spam mail :(
20:08<DabuYu>not only spam is creative - quotation mails are creative too
20:09<DabuYu>i quote a price from point A to point B, costing 799 dollar. it says "please note that if your location is more that 10 km out of point C, add $1.50 for each kilometer"
20:09<+glx>my brother often receive FBI mails from china
20:09<DabuYu>point A to C is 1600 kilometer...
20:12<DabuYu>i get so many spam mails (10 per day at least) that i never actually check what's in them
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20:13*TrueBrain is happy; my local patch makes OpenTTD rather challenging :)
20:13<TrueBrain>I have a Xaroth begging me to not shut down the server :P
20:14<TrueBrain>that is really bad ....
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>what's a quotation mail?
20:20<frosch123>night
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 17 00:00:47 2011