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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-11-18

---Logopened Fri Nov 18 00:00:53 2011
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03:00<@peter1138>oh *above* the other text :p
03:00<@planetmaker>below, right above the buttons is better IMHO ;-)
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03:10<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:21<@planetmaker>hello appe
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03:26<@planetmaker>hi dihedral
03:26<__ln___>good beforenoon
03:30<@peter1138>planetmaker, either way is easy :)
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03:31<@planetmaker>whereever, it's a good idea for articulated vehicles in particular
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06:23<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: now add some magic that it can adjust to drawing larger sprites (with higher detail) :)
06:25<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, it doesn't care
06:25<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: yes, but the gui should resize properly
06:25<@peter1138>well, height-wise it does, but i gave it 2x space
06:25<@peter1138>width-wise it should be centred
06:26<@peter1138>and yes i was thinking as i wrote it that it could already adapt it for EZ
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06:48*andythenorth -> writes html
06:49<andythenorth>with inline styles
06:51<@peter1138>andythenorth, make some preview sprites
06:51<@peter1138>well, purchase info
06:51<andythenorth>spec / screenie...
06:52<@peter1138>um, i only have a diff :S
06:52<@planetmaker>var 0x10, type 22
06:52<@planetmaker>or something like that
06:52<@planetmaker>extra purchase view sprite
06:52<@planetmaker>like extra purchase view text
06:52<andythenorth>yet another newgrf feature I haven't had time to implement :P
06:52<andythenorth>this is fun :)
06:53<@planetmaker>well, not even existing yet ;-)
06:53<@peter1138>you've had 4 hours
07:00<frosch123>should it have some actiion 0 flag to enable it?
07:00<frosch123>it might look pointless for normal vehicles
07:01<@peter1138>frosch123, i was wondering about that, but wanted to keep it simple as a test
07:01<frosch123>otoh, it might look more consistent if the selection is always shown
07:01<@peter1138>also i wouldn't have any way to make sure it displayed it properly without making a test grf :)
07:02<frosch123>though if it autosizes in y direction, it would always be inconsistent
07:02<@peter1138>it doesn't, it gets a static vehicle height
07:03<@peter1138>selected only by type, not model
07:05<@peter1138>hmm, the yate cargo ship in opengfx is too long
07:06<frosch123>all ships are too long
07:06<@peter1138>the originals fit in the purchase list :)
07:07<@peter1138>hmm, aircraft are too wide tooo
07:08<@peter1138>even the originals don't all fit there :)
07:09<@peter1138>i could always set up a DPI to crop them ;)
07:10<frosch123>make them autosize, and the ignore the SETX from the names :p
07:10<@peter1138>some use spaces, no?
07:11<frosch123>if, then they are broken anyway
07:11<@peter1138>problem is size can vary by year
07:11<frosch123>afaik we also autosize the ship and aircraft depot cells
07:12<frosch123>peter1138: the the grf shall supply sufficient transparency to make the sprites have the same size
07:12<@peter1138>erm, right
07:12<@peter1138>of course
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07:16<andythenorth>autosize depot cells!
07:16<andythenorth>how about 'fix articulated RVs are a raging mess in depot etc'
07:17<frosch123>andythenorth: just implement a train-like depot for rv
07:18<andythenorth>someone did a rough patch for that
07:18<andythenorth>proof of concept
07:18<andythenorth>it's funny how someone never gets anything useful done
07:18<Eddi|zuHause>imho the grf should just provide a property how wide it wishes the purchase sprites to be
07:19<andythenorth>but someone has often done half a patch that cannot be found
07:22<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: within limits, please
07:23<@planetmaker>or I'll request 640px :-P
07:23<yorick>are there any plans to upgrade noai from squirrel 2.2.x to 3.0.x?
07:23<@planetmaker>currently not
07:23<yorick>ok, thanks :)
07:23<frosch123>3.0 is incompatible to 2.x in many places
07:24<frosch123>so, most ais would break
07:24<andythenorth>I thought they'd solved this as experimental error
07:25<frosch123>andythenorth: maybe the software evaluating the result is buggy :p
07:28<@Terkhen>maybe the universe is buggy
07:29<frosch123>yeah, the matrix has limited precision
07:29<frosch123>they only use doubles
07:30<yorick> <-- maybe the fpga they used to detect the particles is buggy
07:31<andythenorth>frosch123: could be closer to the truth than you realise
07:36<Mazur>Why does the r23238 have no language pack?
07:36<Mazur>The nightly.
07:36<Mazur>And how do I fix it, again?
07:37*Mazur nearly forgot the magic worm.
07:39<frosch123>did you copy it over an existing installation, without replacing all files?
07:39<@planetmaker>bah, we're crazy. we have industrytype.h and industry_type.h
07:41<frosch123>we also have cargotype and cargo_type :)
07:41<frosch123>i always open both :p
07:43<Mazur>frosch123, I just used autostart, so a fresh checkout down downloaded.
07:43<Mazur>But I think I may know what went wrong: a local patch, which it could not apply, and I said to skip, must have been applied after all.
07:43<@planetmaker>Mazur: I can only assume that compile barfed on some changes
07:43<@planetmaker>re-compile and see
07:44<+michi_cc>planetmaker: There's more of that, is it station_base.h or base_station_base.h for example :)
07:45<@planetmaker>hm... good point. Maybe station tiles should also get an option to draw grids
07:46<Mazur>Problem solved, thank you all.
07:52<TrueBrain>you are welcome
07:59<@peter1138>recompile the universe?
08:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23248 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename everything related to the NewGRF 'readme' to 'textfile', so it is more generic.
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09:36<@planetmaker>hello Belugas
09:37<@peter1138>oh right
09:38<@peter1138>my NAT configuration wasn't working because...
09:38<@peter1138>i didn't enable ipforwarding. oops.
09:38<@Belugas>mister planetmaker :)
09:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23249 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: Also allow viewing of the other two textfiles supplied by BaNaNaS tars, i.e. changelog and license.
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09:46<@Yexo>iIn python, is "some_list = some_list[1:]" thread-safe if another thread does "some_list.append(3)" ?
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09:54<Hirundo>Yexo: It seems not, according to which suggests to use a Queue instead
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10:32<Xaroth>Terkhen: I think TB made a new addict out of you :P
10:32<@Terkhen>I didn't play that much :P
10:32<Xaroth>liar :P
10:32<Xaroth>you didn't play that much -today- :P
10:32<Xaroth>but yesterday...
10:33<@Terkhen>only a few hours, today I logged in to see a gigantic city
10:33<@Terkhen>that probably answers who were playing a lot yesterday and today :P
10:33<Xaroth>yeh.. er, sorry
10:33<Xaroth>we.. went a bit overboard :P
10:33<@planetmaker>oh, the server is still up?
10:33<Xaroth>planetmaker: yep
10:33<Xaroth>you can see our work :P
10:35<@planetmaker>hm, got the DL link?
10:35<@planetmaker>for the binary?
10:37<@planetmaker>I guess I allow that programme to access the internet. Even when it was downloaded from the internet :-P
10:38<Xaroth>well you don't -have- to.. but that might complicate things a bit if you don't...
10:38<@planetmaker>hm... I don't find the server, though
10:39<Xaroth>it's not advertised
10:39<TrueBrain>I forgot the -nogo prefix, so advertising would be a bit bad ;)
10:44<Rubidium>TrueBrain: it's quite unlikely there's another revision with that revision number any time soon
10:44<TrueBrain>Rubidium: very true
10:44<TrueBrain>but I like things to be clear :)
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10:50<@planetmaker> <-- I should fix something, I guess ;-)
10:51<@planetmaker>I hope it's only locally screwed up :-P
10:51<TrueBrain>wher eon the map?
10:52<@planetmaker>my only tracks. Centre, a bit to the top
10:52<TrueBrain>that really is a local problem, yeah ;)
10:52<@peter1138>oh, graphics glitch :p
10:52<@planetmaker>I guess I screwed with track templates then ;-)
11:02<TrueBrain>5 developers on one server ... that is a first (for me) to see :P
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11:04<Swissfan91>hi everyone
11:05<@planetmaker>hehe, TrueBrain
11:05<@Terkhen>hi Swissfan91
11:05<@planetmaker>it's quite rare, possibly first for me, too
11:05<@planetmaker>hi Swissfan91
11:05<@Terkhen>first for me too :P
11:06<Swissfan91>when you have a minute..
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13:37<andythenorth>peter1138: so what sprites am I drawing?
13:38<Rubidium>andythenorth: monospaced characters?
13:38<andythenorth>there isn't a pixel font we can rasterise?
13:39<Rubidium>there probably is ;)
13:40<Rubidium>but then we need some GPL-ed or BSD licensed font
13:40<andythenorth>any idea of point size?
13:41<b_jonas>um, what kind of font? what do you need one for?
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13:42<Rubidium>andythenorth: something 10-ish?
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13:42<Rubidium> <- the Liberation Mono seems nice
13:42<frosch123>why do we need a monospaced sprite font?
13:43<Rubidium>frosch123: for the readme/changelog that'd be nice
13:43<@planetmaker>frosch123: for readme
13:43<frosch123>do you want it as monospaced version of the normal sprite font, or do you want to use it instead of a freetype font?
13:44<Rubidium>frosch123: the former
13:44<Rubidium>basically adding a fourth sprite font 'type'
13:45<Rubidium>though I see some difficulty with the freetype font; we need to "add" some extra tests there
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23250 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: basque - 20 changes by Thadah
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: english_US - 8 changes by Rubidium
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: esperanto - 55 changes by Christopher
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: finnish - 9 changes by jpx_
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: german - 7 changes by planetmaker
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13:50<Rubidium>too bad the example fails :(
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13:51*frosch123 votes for Floral Caps :p
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13:52<andythenorth>we need a gpl or bsd monaco
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13:59<frosch123>maybe we should just add a dependency for liberation fonts :p
13:59<__ln___>hmm, 20% of britons do not know the meaning of the french word 'bonjour'.
14:02<Wolf01>__ln___, you have a longer tail tonight
14:03<frosch123>i would have expected Sacro to say that
14:05<@peter1138>Name: Emd Nouveau
14:05<@peter1138>Style: Regular
14:05<@peter1138>Type: DOS/Windows executable
14:06<@peter1138>__ln___, it's french for "ZeroConf"
14:06<__ln___>peter1138: that's correct
14:07<Rubidium>hmm, fontcache only returns one monospaced font for me
14:07<Rubidium>although 19 have mono in their name
14:10<Sacro>i know what bonjour means
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14:23<@Belugas>ho? me too! me too!!
14:23<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23251 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix: 3-column view of NewGRF GUI had too much space for certain font sizes.
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15:04<b_jonas>peter1138: lol
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15:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23252 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Add WD_BEVEL_xxx constants.
15:39<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23253 /trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp: -Fix: Several clipping issues with the display of textfiles, esp. with RTL text direction.
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15:43<@Terkhen>hi LordAro
15:44<LordAro>hi Terkhen
15:48<__ln___>is this actually grammatical: "¿Quieres instalar a la última versión de Spotify?"
15:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23254 /branches/1.1/ (6 files in 4 dirs):
15:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
15:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Run StartupEngines() if NewGRFs changed during loading a savegame, just like it's running when NewGRFs are changed during a game (r23083)
15:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Account for snow line table when determining the snow line for building houses (r23082)
15:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] If a NewGRF overrides a default house the minimum start year for that house was set to 1930 [FS#4794] (r23059)
15:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIOrder::GetOrderCount() did not hide implicit orders (r23057)
15:55<@Terkhen>__ln___: that "a" shouldn't be there
15:55<__ln___>Terkhen: that's what i thought too.
16:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23255 /branches/1.1/ (7 files in 6 dirs):
16:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
16:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: When any keys on the on-screen keyboard were pressed the text cursor disappeared (r23132)
16:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIOrder::IsCurrentOrderPartOfOrderList return false for valid vehicles and crashed for invalid ones (r23131)
16:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] calling require() to include a file gave you 100.000 opcodes for free (r23117)
16:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Allow accessing the server's client info as well in the admin network [FS#4813] (r23115)
16:10<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23256 /branches/1.1/ (4 files in 4 dirs):
16:10<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
16:10<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Squirrel] replace custom qsort by std::sort to fix stack overflow [FS#4830] (r23190, r23187, r23186)
16:10<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Do not display railway fences between track and waypoints [FS#4627] (r23163)
16:10<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] AIOrder didn't handle implicit orders correctly in all cases [FS#4823] (r23133)
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16:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23257 /branches/1.1/ (15 files in 4 dirs):
16:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
16:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NoAI] Hide AIObject from the documentation as it cannot be used (r23204, r23201)
16:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [Network] Unstable sorting in the network list when two servers had the exact same name [FS#4829] (r23202)
16:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Oil rigs that "expired" did not get removed from the station list [FS#4822] (r23199)
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16:17<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23258 /branches/1.1/src/lang/ (25 files): [1.1] -Backport from trunk: language updates
16:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23259 /branches/1.1/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
16:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
16:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: 3-column view of NewGRF GUI had too much space for certain font sizes (r23251)
16:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Ignore special characters, such as the train "character", when determining a fallback font (r23237)
16:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Make train var 0xF3 consistent with TTDPatch (r23231)
16:19<CIA-6>OpenTTD: - Fix: Invalidate build vehicle window when changing the setting for wagon speed limits (r23211)
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16:26<LordAro>frosch123: i love how i spent several months getting readme viewer working, then you get changelog and license viewer working within days :L
16:27<frosch123>those did not affect the viewer itself at all :p
16:28<frosch123>just loading a different file
16:31<@Terkhen>it's easier to add features when most of the work is done :P
16:32<LordAro>i guess
16:33<LordAro>i guess the viewer still has the issues of 'tables not being able to work' and 'some strings get truncated'
16:33<LordAro>columns of text
16:34<SpComb>sounded almost like HTML
16:34<Rubidium>LordAro: that requires a monospaced font, which someone has to "draw"
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16:35<LordAro>i would class it as TMWFTLB tbh :)
16:35<@planetmaker>truncation shouldn't happen (anymore) and I didn't see it, LordAro
16:35<@planetmaker>LordAro: it might not be tmwftlb
16:37<LordAro>i noticed it with 2cc train set (2.0.0 beta4.1)
16:40<frosch123>LordAro: strings are no longer truncated
16:41<LordAro>was that r23253?
16:41<LordAro>i guess it didn't get into tonight's nightly
16:43<LordAro>thanks, that part of the patch confused my (even more) - (bevel edges and text truncation-y-stuff) :)
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16:44<andythenorth>commit spree :P
16:45<LordAro>andythenorth: no, it's backport week :P
16:45<andythenorth>Rubidium: I think there are monospaced fonts with appropriate licenses
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16:49<Rubidium>andythenorth: so do I ;)
16:52<Rubidium>just haven't found the 'will' to actually do something towards monospaced fonts :(
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17:13<@Terkhen>good night
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17:39<andythenorth>steam trams could sometimes run engine backwards
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20:26<Eddi|zuHause> 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 001 001 051 Pre-fail Always FAILING_NOW 4867
20:29<+glx>seems bad
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>it's not hugely important data on there, but that's my router/download-box hdd
20:37<Eddi|zuHause>and i'm not sure if i have a small enough hdd to replace it
20:38<__ln__>how small?
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20:38<Eddi|zuHause>it's currently 120GB, i think. doesn't make a lot of sense to put a 500GB-2TB hdd in there.
20:40<Eddi|zuHause>i might have some old 40GB disks, but i'm not sure if they're already bad
20:42<Eddi|zuHause>PS: it's not quite useful to have a headless box display a mexxage "press F1 to continue" on SMART-failure
20:43<__ln__>usually there's a "halt on no errors" setting in bios
20:44<Eddi|zuHause>i was under the impression i set that
20:44<Eddi|zuHause>but i disabled smart in bios now, so it should avoid that anyway
20:48<z-MaTRiX>heres my example of drawing a simple line
20:49<z-MaTRiX>line is still to be cleaned up
20:50<__ln__>indentation is missing
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20:51<z-MaTRiX>will look after that
20:51<z-MaTRiX>(oh and it has unix lineends)
20:51<__ln__>it's suboptimal to calculate sqrt(2) in the loop condition, because it obviously doesn't change.
20:52<z-MaTRiX>hmm well yes
20:55<z-MaTRiX>actually r/sqrt(2) is constant too
20:55<z-MaTRiX>will fix that
20:55<__ln__>i have an unused 1TB disk which i don't dare use for anything important although it appears to work fine
20:55<z-MaTRiX>and whats the problem with it?
20:57<__ln__>once, though only once, i had severe problems with reading data from it, and i thought i'm actually going to lose a bunch of photos and other irreplaceable stuff. but next day, when i ran dd_rescue on it, everything worked flawlessly again.
20:59<Eddi|zuHause>1TB is still overkill for that box
20:59<z-MaTRiX>if mayt0r then it will die soon
20:59<__ln__>the disk reports zero bad sectors, but running the long smart test always just stops at 20%.
21:00<__ln__>it's a samsung
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>WDC WD1200BB-00DAA1
21:02<Eddi|zuHause>served me well over the past almost-a-decade
21:03<Eddi|zuHause>might be 2004-ish
21:03<z-MaTRiX>it lloks like it has reached the theshold then
21:03<z-MaTRiX>so bits are rotting now
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21:05<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: btw, are you in a need of ide or sata disk?
21:05<Eddi|zuHause>either is fine
21:05<z-MaTRiX>i have bought a hitachi 500GB recently
21:05<z-MaTRiX>hitachi has the leading-edge technology since 2009
21:06<z-MaTRiX>a more correct and stable solution of disc magnetizing method
21:06<z-MaTRiX>plus advanced materials
21:06<__ln__>"Western Digital to Acquire Hitachi Global Storage Technologies."
21:07<Eddi|zuHause>i really doubt there's actually that much difference
21:07<Eddi|zuHause>and HDD prices skyrocketed in the past few weeks
21:10<__ln__>so they say
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>it's said that the prices are now totally overvalued. the actual production pause only warranted like a 10% increase, but they increased like over 100%
21:13<__ln__>if one can increase the price of a product by 100% and people still buy it, then it would be stupid not to.
21:14<Eddi|zuHause>that's what they did with fuel
21:15<Eddi|zuHause>there's a weird weekly change in fuel prices that i don't really understand
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>fuel is most expensive on thursdays, and cheapest on sunday
21:16<Eddi|zuHause>by a margin of around 5¢
21:19<__ln__>i also seem to have an unused 120GB ide disk, which isn't failing afaik
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21:20<__ln__>unused as in "not in active use", not "brand new"
21:21<Eddi|zuHause>or i opt for a brandnew low-power system with like a 40GB SSD
21:22<__ln__>at some point SSDs were not actually lower-power than HDDs, but that may have changed
21:23<Eddi|zuHause>but i'm sure there are more low-power systems than a 7 year old athlon-1GHz
21:23<Eddi|zuHause>or 1.3GHz
21:23<Eddi|zuHause>or something like that
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21:25<__ln__>my 1.2GHz ARM system consumes 7W (plus HDD's power)
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21:32<z-MaTRiX>also note that newer hdds usually 80-120GB and up has FSB (fluid dynamic bearings)
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 19 00:00:55 2011