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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-11-19

---Logopened Sat Nov 19 00:00:55 2011
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01:46<andythenorth>oh dear
01:46<andythenorth>is that a town growth patch? :P
01:47<andythenorth>or is that goals?
01:48<Rubidium>morning andy
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01:51<andythenorth>hola
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01:52<Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/alpha.png <- not quite sure of the quality of those characters yet
01:55<andythenorth>the caps N is a bit funky
01:55<andythenorth>all of the caps seem a bit fuzzy
01:55<andythenorth>(upper caps)
01:56<andythenorth>also the upper caps are smaller than the lower caps ?
01:59<Rubidium>andythenorth: yes, otherwise the ones with diatrics would go outside of their boxes :(
01:59<andythenorth>ah
02:00<andythenorth>that is challenging...
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02:27<dihedral>looks like some beta or rc is about to pop out of the ground
02:28<Rubidium>http://rbijker.net/openttd/heh.png <- it doesn't even look totally horrid in-game ;)
02:28<Rubidium>though it did with the smaller capitals :(
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02:32<@planetmaker>moin
02:42<Rubidium>hi planetmaker
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02:47<dihedral>greetings :-)
03:11<@Terkhen>good morning
03:18<@planetmaker>hm, I see mono-spaced letters here somewhere :-)
03:29<Rubidium>where? what am I missing? :)
03:40<andythenorth>Rubidium: looks ok
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03:42<andythenorth>hmm
03:43<andythenorth>Vehicles in vehicles!
03:43<andythenorth>3 tile locks are annoying!
03:43<andythenorth>Ship smoke!
03:43<andythenorth>^^ my work is done
03:43*andythenorth is going out
03:43<andythenorth>;)
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07:15<andythenorth>quak
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07:16<frosch123>moin
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07:29<Wolf01>hello
07:30<Arafangion>*cough*
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07:41<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23260 /trunk/media/extra_grf/chars.nfo: -Codechange: abstract away some NFO by macros
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07:42<appe_>quark
07:42<TrueBrain>I am more thinking neutrinos
07:47<appe_>what about muons?
07:49<TrueBrain>never liked them
07:55<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=152519 <-- is it just me or are those graphics twisted?
07:56<appe_>where?
07:56<appe_>oh
07:56<appe_>the train tracks?
07:56<appe_>:D
07:56<Eddi|zuHause>yes, those
08:00<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that is a special cheat to move trains faster
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08:06<Zuu_>This NoGo looks interesing. Does it use Squirrel for scripting?
08:06<Eddi|zuHause>"if there are no tracks, they will have no option other than to fly, and flying is faster"?
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08:11<frosch123>Zuu_: yes
08:11<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: it's a special bitcode
08:12<andythenorth>meh
08:13*andythenorth has to paint boats and can't play any NoGo
08:14<Zuu_>Cool. I have been thinking a bit on having my airport work as a starting ground to get into applying squirrel to tutorial or goals, but currently I've turned my attention to other projects.
08:15<frosch123>hmm, nogo might actually work for tutorials
08:16<Zuu_>I can't wait to take a look at the implementation when a get to a PC tomorrow.
08:17<Zuu_>I asserted it can be found by looking around a bit :-)
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08:17<Zuu_>I assume*
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08:21<frosch123>in the usual place, yes, but not the current script
08:26<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: if I length adjust these new trams will they still fit in n tiles (I can't remember value of n, but it was one of your design goals)
08:26<andythenorth>(it's straightforward solution otherwise)
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: no, they will get longer
08:27<andythenorth>does that bother you? I'm not concerned
08:27<Eddi|zuHause>i can check how much, if you have more detailed design
08:28<andythenorth>if you drop me the link to the ascii scheme for the existing trams I'll look...
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08:55<appe_>http://wimp.com/diabolicalgirl/
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08:55<appe_>this video describes my feeling while clearing a city with the magical bulldozer.
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09:03<@peter1138>:)
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09:22<Eddi|zuHause>why does kate not offer IBM437 encoding, only IBM850?
09:22<@Alberth>437 was sold out :p
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09:27<@peter1138>who?
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10:31<TomyLobo>is there any easy way to upgrade all trains to maglev?
10:32<TrueBrain>sell & buy :D
10:32<TomyLobo>i could imagine a patch that allows setting up replacements not only between rails and electric rails but between all types
10:32<TomyLobo>and then just upgrading the depot
10:34<@planetmaker>use the universal railtype newgrf in your games
10:34<@planetmaker>or your obvious imagination to write that patch
10:34<TomyLobo>:D
10:34<TomyLobo>so no one has had that idea before?
10:35<@planetmaker>many people have had
10:35<@planetmaker>no-one found it interesting enough to write a patch
10:35<TomyLobo>dang
10:38<+glx>only patch I remember was autoconvert train when converting rails, but that's ugly
10:38<@planetmaker>as said: there's the universal railtype newgrf. Which allows you exactly that
10:39<@planetmaker>As such I'd argue a need for that patch is even not existent anymore
10:41<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23261 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (49 files): -Codechange: Squirrel glue templates were not inline (tnx to michi_cc)
10:42<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23262 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp api/squirrel_export.sh): -Fix: one annoying typo in a squirrel_export marker line
10:50<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23263 /trunk/src/script/ (script_info.cpp squirrel.cpp squirrel_class.hpp): -Documentation: stop naming AI in comments in script/ files; it makes no sense
10:51<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23264 /trunk/src/script/squirrel.hpp: -Fix (r23263): save before commit
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11:03<Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> no-one found it interesting enough to write a patch <-- actually i believe there was a patch already
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>one that allowed upgrading depots with trains inside
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>and then not allowing to start incompatible trains
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11:41*appe_ is really bored
11:46<appe_>bah
11:46<appe_>i wish to try some new industry set
11:46<appe_>got tip? :)
11:48*appe_ tries CHIPS 0.5
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>that is no industry set
11:56<appe_>i know
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>how do i get a specific branch from a git repo?
12:06-!-DanMacK [DanMacK@CPE602ad06dd335-CM602ad06dd332.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd
12:07<DanMacK>Hey all
12:08<@Alberth>hi
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12:10<appe_>planetmaker: i noticed you was in on creating the CHIPS grf.
12:11<appe_>planetmaker: its neat :)
12:11<andythenorth>they seek him here, they seek him there, they seek DanMacK everywhere
12:17<frosch123>appe_: pm is involved in basically every grf on the devzone :p
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12:23<appe_>oh, haha
12:24<appe_>uhm, i cant seem to be able to set a dredging site as a destination
12:24<appe_>with a cargo boat
12:24<appe_>what am i doing wrong? :)
12:24<appe_>oh, never mind.
12:25<andythenorth>click on the green bouy
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12:42<DanMacK>Back, hey all
12:42*DanMacK slaps andythenorth around a bit with a large trout
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13:01<b_jonas>and then you must cut down the largest tree of the forest… with this herring
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13:09<Eddi|zuHause>you use herrings to fix tents, not cut trees...
13:12<z-MaTRiX>Save the trees, eat beavers!
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13:17<andythenorth>meh
13:17<andythenorth>it's too quiet
13:17<andythenorth>ottd must be dying
13:18<z-MaTRiX>maybe new users don't like the limitations
13:18<z-MaTRiX>and maybe the new "feature" should be default disabled
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13:19<Eddi|zuHause>what? you don't like the new feature of newgrfs allowing turing around in the depot?
13:20<andythenorth>there's a new feature :O
13:20<andythenorth>where?
13:20*andythenorth must try it
13:20<z-MaTRiX>like limiting land construction rate
13:20<z-MaTRiX>or amount
13:20<andythenorth>this FIRS set looks quite nice. Maybe I'll try it
13:21<@Alberth>andythenorth: look out, it is not finished yet :)
13:21<andythenorth>is it open source? Can I contribute?
13:21<V453000>:D
13:21<@Alberth>submit a patch, maybe the author likes it
13:22<andythenorth>I heard it's abandoned? Or that the authors are idiots?
13:23<@Alberth>that's sad news :(
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13:23<andythenorth>it was only a rumour :)
13:23<andythenorth>no idea if it's true
13:24<andythenorth>at least one of the authors has jumped ship to a project involving boats :P
13:24<@Alberth>he seems to draw everything he can think of :)
13:25*andythenorth contemplates a railtypes grf
13:26<andythenorth>Alberth: perhaps now is a good time to discuss groups? As it's quiet...
13:26<andythenorth>...less chance of a kitchen sink spec
13:26<andythenorth>i.e. one that has to accommodate every desire :P
13:27<@Alberth>my own desire is to first introduce consists into the game
13:27<andythenorth>I think groups and consists should be firmly decoupled
13:28<andythenorth>otherwise it becomes unsolvable
13:28<andythenorth>current groups is a bit 'meh' but it works
13:28<@Alberth>groups are a layer on top of consists, I think
13:28<andythenorth>'consist' sounds like the most important entity
13:28*andythenorth has an ontology obsession at the moment
13:28<andythenorth>too many spec wars seem to be not because of requirements, but because of piss-poor ontology
13:29<@Alberth>perhaps the bug is that autoreplace is not embedded in groups
13:29<andythenorth>groups work for me
13:29<@Alberth>which causes a lot of confusing discussion
13:29<andythenorth>groups are just a bit labour intensive, you don't gain much from them
13:29<@Alberth>yeah, I never understood their point tbh
13:30*frosch123 uses groups somewhat ad-hoc
13:30<andythenorth>so consists are quite a defined problem
13:30<frosch123>i want to autoreplace some vehicles, drop them in a group, and set the replace
13:30<andythenorth>yup
13:30<andythenorth>I have 1 group for replacing basically
13:30<frosch123>so, actually i only use "temporary" groups :p
13:30<andythenorth>then clear it when I'm done
13:30<andythenorth>+1
13:31<frosch123>except when i already know the grf, then i sometimes set up groups in advanced. for vehicles i know i want to replace later
13:31<@Alberth>consists are probably much more interesting in context of autoreplace
13:31<andythenorth>so consists are quite simply conceptually
13:31<frosch123>e.g. in my last games i started setting up groups like "flat", "heavy", "steep", to assign cheap or strong engines to them
13:31<andythenorth>any consist (train etc) subscribes to or inherits from a master consist
13:32<andythenorth>then there are some gui decisions about how to make a mental model of that for the user
13:32<@Alberth>yeah, they just need to be inserted deep down in the vehicle code :)
13:33*Alberth goes reading about groups
13:43<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23265 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp fontcache.h strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Codechange: replace the setfallbackfont callback function with a class to call back
13:45-!-travels [~travels@99-185-39-47.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd
13:45<travels>i got a question
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23266 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: belarusian - 8 changes by Wowanxm
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: french - 12 changes by glx
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: german - 4 changes by planetmaker
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 12 changes by lorenzodv
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: russian - 6 changes by akasoft
13:46<travels>now i got 2 questions
13:46-!-Elukka [Elukka@78-27-85-217.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
13:47<travels>#1 what was that log for and #2 Does OpenTTD use GoldSrc engine because i went to saves folder and the icons show the Half-Life 1 icon
13:47<frosch123>#2 no
13:47<frosch123>#1 that log appears daily at 19:45 amsterdam time
13:48<Rubidium>that just tells something about the changes being made to OpenTTD's sources
13:48<travels>wait wtf its actually the HL2 icon, but i dont have Hl2
13:48<travels>oh wait i have TF2
13:49<travels>so does OpenTDD use Source?
13:49<frosch123>no
13:49<frosch123>it just uses .sav as file extension
13:50<frosch123>the rest is your os making bold assumptions
13:50<travels>i wonder what would happen if i open them
13:50<travels>(double click)
13:52<travels>Setup file 'gameinfo.txt' doesn't exist in subdirectory 'hl2'. Check your -game paramenter or VCONFIG setting.
13:53<@Alberth>lol
13:53<travels>i shall add the parameter!
13:53<travels>whats the paramenter for TF2?
13:54<@Alberth>tbh, what you are seeing and doing makes no sense at all to me
13:54<Rubidium>-youstupidtf2thisisnotasavegamethatyouareintendedtounderstand
13:54<travels>i know
13:54<travels>im curious what would happen
13:54<travels>im trying to run a OpenTTD save in TF2, and see what would happen
13:55<@Alberth>oh, nothing useful will happen
13:55<travels>ok, so its tf
13:55<frosch123>you should try to hack 127.0.0.1
13:56<@Alberth>no, it is your os that thinks that .sav is a file of tf2, which is not true
13:56<travels>i now
13:56<travels>know
13:56<travels>ok i do not know how to add command line arguements
13:57<travels>ill just change the open with to OpenTTD
13:58<travels>wait HL1 also use .sav, so ill open a HL1 save in OpenTTD and a OpenTTD save in HL1
13:58<Eddi|zuHause>that will likely not work either
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14:00<travels>i dont think i made a saved game in HL1 yet
14:01<travels>yep never made a HL save yet
14:02<Xaroth>frosch123: should be much better now.
14:03<travels>file does not show up in load game
14:03<travels>now ill change the open with file to openTTD
14:04<travels>experiment success
14:05<@Alberth>just start openttd, and load it from the game UI
14:05<travels>i knos
14:05<travels>know
14:05<travels>now its time to play in this Japan scenario i found
14:06<andythenorth>hmm
14:06*andythenorth ponders
14:06<travels>is it bad if i put land in Tokyo Bay?
14:08*travels watches trains
14:11<@Alberth>Xaroth: what revision?
14:11<Xaroth>h22c2b173-nogo
14:11<@Alberth>ok, thanks
14:11<Xaroth>http://master.binaries.openttd.org/custom/nogo/h22c2b173-nogo/index.html
14:12<travels>i want to get the 32pbb texture set, last time i tried, quite awhile ago, i failed horribly
14:14*Alberth never bothered trying that
14:15<Xaroth>frosch123: i got the latest version of the script from tb
14:18<travels>2011-06-15
14:19<Xaroth>frosch123: I think tb brokes it :P
14:21<Eddi|zuHause><travels> is it bad if i put land in Tokyo Bay? <-- isn't that what they're actually doing there?
14:23<@Alberth>but they build an airport on it :p
14:23<travels>i build a railway
14:24<travels>built
14:24<travels>i have no idea how to install the 32bpp pack
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14:41<TomyLobo>do coal mines ever disappear?
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>yes
14:45<TomyLobo>i've had this coal mine for almost a hundred years now
14:45<TomyLobo>not servicing it
14:45<appe_>"meanwhile in sweden"
14:46<appe_>two guys are playing beach tennis in their underwear while drunk people cheer them, out in the street
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>as long as you're actually moving, it's pretty warm :)
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15:47<andythenorth>DanMacK: ygm
16:02<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23267 /trunk/src/ (fontcache.cpp strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Codechange: unify the font name setting of the font cache
16:08<@Terkhen>hi
16:09<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23268 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r23267): compilation failed on Windows
16:10<andythenorth>hi Terkhen
16:11<andythenorth>did you move yet?
16:13<@Terkhen>nope, tomorrow
16:14<andythenorth>ho, we gained changelog field for newgrfs :)
16:20<Xaroth>Terkhen: so you got one more day to play NoGo? :P
16:21<@Terkhen>nah, I'll spend it checking the things I'm going to take
16:21<andythenorth>I tried NoGo
16:21<andythenorth>but it's a NoGo :P
16:21<Xaroth>andythenorth: play online.
16:22<Xaroth>I set up 2 servers for people to try it
16:22<andythenorth>I tried one of them :)
16:22<andythenorth>nobody there ;)
16:23<andythenorth>I kind of want to know what can be scripted, but I couldn't find a repo or docs yet
16:23<Xaroth>try the other one
16:23<Xaroth>people there
16:23<andythenorth>what's it called?
16:23<Xaroth>Xaroth.nl NoGo1
16:23*andythenorth wishes multiplayer list could be filtered
16:24<Xaroth>they can?
16:24*andythenorth is too lazy for multiplayer ;)
16:24<andythenorth>hmm
16:25<andythenorth>Xaroth: so this is town growth goals?
16:25<@Terkhen>yes
16:25<Xaroth>yes
16:25<andythenorth>are there any bigger goals for the map?
16:25<Xaroth>not yet
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16:26<andythenorth>k
16:26<andythenorth>can I put ice in beer if it's not cold?
16:28<z-MaTRiX>yes
16:28<z-MaTRiX>but if it has already frozen then it will not sink in it
16:30<Rubidium>I see no physical reason why that can't be done
16:32<appe_>good news everyone!
16:33<appe_>today, you will be delivering coal from puddingwell mines to huntington falls!
16:35<@Terkhen>or maybe I will be sleeping
16:35<@Terkhen>good night
16:35<Xaroth>nn
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>you might get frozen water to sink in frozen beer by means of quantum tunneling :)
16:49<@planetmaker>good evening :-)
16:49<Xaroth>yo pm
16:49<@planetmaker>appe_: I'd not dare take any credit in CHIPS
16:49<@planetmaker>it's not my work - though I quite love the NewGRF
16:50<andythenorth>CHIPS is so simple :)
16:50<andythenorth>although it's also not :)
16:50<andythenorth>most of the credit is Yexo
16:51<Xaroth>pm: we're doing coop stuffs on nogo1, you in?
16:52<@planetmaker>yup. New binary?
16:52<Xaroth>yup
16:52<Xaroth>with trams
16:52<Xaroth>and your rail set
16:52<@planetmaker>sweet :-)
16:53<@planetmaker>same server?
16:53<Xaroth>it's advertised
16:53<V453000>mayhem? :D
16:53<Xaroth>filter on nogo in name
16:53<@planetmaker>today even with proper maglev tracks :-P
16:54<TrueBrain>sadly, it is 1980
16:55<@planetmaker>h22... is correct version?
16:55<@planetmaker>I don't find the server?
16:55<TrueBrain>yes
16:55<TrueBrain>ends with -nogo ;)
16:55<TrueBrain>the ones popping up green / yellow
16:56<Xaroth>Xaroth.nl NoGo1
16:56<@planetmaker>yes, but there's none. got the IP?
16:56<Xaroth>rawr.xaroth.nl:3980
16:56<Xaroth>top of my head
16:57<TrueBrain>here it is advertised
16:57<Xaroth>planetmaker: http://www.openttd.org/en/server/50443
16:58<@planetmaker>yup, found it with IP. Thx
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17:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23269 /trunk/src/ (67 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: rename some control/string codes/IDs to be more consistent
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17:27<z-MaTRiX>sálálá
17:27<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23270 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix (r23267): compile failure without freetype
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17:49<__ln__>is it cheaper to rent a car in Canada or the US?
17:50<z-MaTRiX>rent one in india, then take to us
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19:03<Wolf01>'night all
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22:26<Eddi|zuHause> 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 200 001 051 Pre-fail Always In_the_past 0
22:26<Eddi|zuHause>suddenly it's like nothing ever happened
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22:33<Eddi|zuHause>Nov 19 21:44:39 johannes-i smartd[2774]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], SMART Prefailure Attribute: 7 Seek_Error_Rate changed from 1 to 200
22:34<__ln__>if you start the long smart test, does it complete?
22:34<Eddi|zuHause>Nov 18 14:13:15 johannes-i smartd[2766]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], SMART Prefailure Attribute: 7 Seek_Error_Rate changed from 200 to 100
22:34<Eddi|zuHause>Nov 19 02:14:38 johannes-i smartd[2756]: Device: /dev/sda [SAT], SMART Prefailure Attribute: 7 Seek_Error_Rate changed from 100 to 1
22:35<Eddi|zuHause>i think the last one didn't... i'll try another one... takes an hour
22:37<Eddi|zuHause># 1 Extended offline Completed: unknown failure 90% 1055 4294705486
22:37<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely sure what that means
22:39<__ln__>me neither, but doesn't sound good
22:41<Eddi|zuHause>Nov 20 04:41:10 johannes-i kernel: [95391.463330] TCP: Possible SYN flooding on port *****. Sending cookies. <-- not sure what that means either
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---Logclosed Sun Nov 20 00:00:57 2011