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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-11-22

---Logopened Tue Nov 22 00:00:16 2011
00:00<z-MaTRiX>i see bits and masks everywhere
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02:40<V453000>morning sir
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03:07<andythenorth>DorpsGek: r23291
03:09<@planetmaker>@openttd r23291
03:09<@planetmaker>@openttd commit r23291
03:09<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Invalid arguments for _commit.
03:09<@planetmaker>@openttd commit 23291
03:09<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit by michi_cc :: r23291 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2011-11-21 22:39:59 UTC)
03:09<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: -Feature: [NewGRF] Properties to always include/exclude cargo types from the refit mask. (peter1138)
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03:09<@planetmaker>there we go
03:12<andythenorth> o o o o o o o o
03:12<andythenorth> o o o o o o o o
03:12<andythenorth>\o/ o o o o o o o
03:12<andythenorth> o \o/ o o o o o o
03:12<andythenorth> o o \o/ o o o o o
03:12<andythenorth> o o o \o/ o o o o
03:12<andythenorth> o o o o \o/ o o o
03:12<andythenorth> o o o o o \o/ o o
03:12<andythenorth> o o o o o o \o/ o
03:12<andythenorth> o o o o o o o \o/
03:12<andythenorth> o o o o o o o o
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03:20<Celestar>wtf :P
03:20<andythenorth>[mexican wave]
03:20<Celestar>@openttd commit 2
03:20<@DorpsGek>Celestar: Commit by darkvater :: r2 /trunk (9 files) (2004-08-10 14:14:00 UTC)
03:20<@DorpsGek>Celestar: -Fix [993829] UDP Fixes (lucaspiller)
03:20<@DorpsGek>Celestar: -Fix change 255/0xFF to OWNER_SPECTATOR for
03:20<@DorpsGek>Celestar: spectator stuff (TrueLight)
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03:27<dihedral>andythenorth, reading too much 9gag? :-P
03:27<andythenorth>no :) Maybe I should go there now...
03:40<Elukka>andy: i totally asked you this before and i think you answered but i forget. was it YACD's or FIRS' fault that you can't disable cargo destinations for industries?
03:40<andythenorth>I don't know :)
03:41<andythenorth>what's the issue?
03:42<Elukka>well, you can't disable cargo destinations for industries
03:42<Elukka>there's an option for that but it doesn't seem to work
03:42<Elukka>...i should probably just check whether it works for default industries
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04:05<andythenorth>Elukka: it's nothing to do with FIRS
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04:37<andythenorth>can grf v8 deprecate prop 1D for trains? (and equiv. for other vehicles)
04:37<andythenorth>I know that grf v8 is not the magic bullet, but what case is there for that prop remaining?
04:39<andythenorth>prop 1D being bit mask of cargo types available for refitting - for those who don't have the wiki in their head
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04:41<@planetmaker>it could, yes.
04:42*andythenorth is being trolled by MB
04:42<andythenorth>he knows well why we're doing it, he's exhibiting his humour :)
04:46<@peter1138>the proposal was there for a week without any comment other than "prop 40/41, are you mad!?!?!?!"
04:47<@planetmaker>it was certainly stated in a private mail to Joseph somewhere why your solution now is bad ;-)
04:47<@planetmaker>Stupid you, that you didn't see it nor take it into account
04:47<andythenorth>I think he's actually being funny
04:48<andythenorth>the more I see MB, the more I think he has a wry sense of humour
04:48<andythenorth>also I have pms with him now and then
04:49<@peter1138>time of the month eh?
04:50<@peter1138>so what phone does marten have?
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04:53<@peter1138>his hand looks awkward holding it :p
04:54*andythenorth has a GPS device and YouTube client that also claims to be a phone
04:54<andythenorth>but as it can't make or receive calls, that might be a dubious claim
04:54<andythenorth>still...I can upgrade to the 4S version - main feature: 'now works a bit like a phone, more of the time'
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06:02<@planetmaker>I like today's xkcd...
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06:10<V453000>hello, how does the auto-refit work?
06:11<appe>planetmaker: indeed. i was rather blown away by the cost of a b-2 bomber.
06:12<@planetmaker>V453000, it needs explicit newgrf support
06:13<@planetmaker>only known newgrf to me: nightly of ogfx+trains ;-)
06:17<@planetmaker>quite :-)
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06:17<TrueBrain>still, what does it do? :)
06:17<@planetmaker>TrueBrain, refit in stations as part of orders
06:18<@planetmaker>i.e. allows to say goto A and load goods, then goto B and load food. restart
06:18<TrueBrain>refit to what? I assumed the 'auto' suggested it does it automatically?
06:18<@planetmaker>thus two-way transfer w/o depot visit
06:18<TrueBrain>ah; that is nice :)
06:18<@planetmaker>also 'available cargo' works
06:18<TrueBrain>but then why the name 'auto'?
06:18<@planetmaker>where 'available' is 'most common'
06:18<@planetmaker>in that station
06:18<@planetmaker>i.e. it automatically refits to 3 goods ans 2 food wagons
06:18<@planetmaker>when then the sation is empty
06:19<@planetmaker>thus 'auto' works, too. Indeed
06:19<@planetmaker>which is the real awesome thing actually :-)
06:19<@planetmaker>though both separately are awesome already :-)
06:19<TrueBrain>so, to summarize what you try to say: it can refit to the amount available in the station?
06:20<@planetmaker>as long as a refit is possible, of course
06:20<@planetmaker>i.e. a tanker won't refit to vehicles ;-)
06:20<@planetmaker>unless that newgrf is crazy ;-)
06:21<@planetmaker>I actually ponder to include one "universal" wagon. Which allows refit in stations for no vehicle change and refit to anything at a cost in depots. Which would simulate switching wagons in depots
06:21<@planetmaker>without user intervention
06:21<@planetmaker>just by orders
06:21<TrueBrain>that indeed is a nice feature. The 'autorefit' raised some questions :P
06:23<@planetmaker>Hm... the universal wagon. I guess, I have a toy to create now ;-)
06:23<TrueBrain>and I think I am going to make a script profile tool of some kind
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06:48<Celestar>wtb [bed]
06:48<TrueBrain>download minecraft
06:48<TrueBrain>get some whool
06:48<TrueBrain>build one
06:49<TrueBrain>well ....... YPT
06:57<@peter1138>desura crashed. good start...
06:58<@peter1138>Before playing you need to agree to the license terms and conditions.
06:58<@peter1138>yeah, i can probably manage that
06:58<TrueBrain>depends on the version :P :P
06:59<@peter1138>of course, it doesn't work...
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>the trick about the GPL is you don't have to agree to anything if you're just playing
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07:20<@peter1138>rules of sodoku: if you're stuck with multiple routes and you find a choice that lets progress quickly, it's most likely the wrong choice
07:32<Xaroth>rules of sudoku: google goggles can solve it for you, saving both time and annorance :P
07:35<@peter1138>maybe if i had an android phone
07:35<@peter1138>or an iphone
07:35<@planetmaker>Good that OpenTTD has also AIs. They can play the game for you, too ;-)
07:35<@planetmaker>No annoying self-building anymore ;-)
07:35<andythenorth>iDon'tPhone you mean
07:35<@peter1138>yeah :)
07:35<@peter1138>andythenorth, sounds like yours is faulty
07:35<andythenorth>only the same as all the others
07:35<@peter1138>sure it's not an ipod? :p
07:35<andythenorth>the fault is that I want to hold it when I'm talking to people
07:36<TrueBrain>planetmaker: sounds like a plan :D
07:36<andythenorth>put it on speaker phone, on the table, it's genius :P
07:37<@peter1138>didn't they "fix" that by changing the way the bars are displayed?
07:37<andythenorth>they fixed it with the 4s
07:48<@peter1138>orudge, you're in trouble with MB ;)
07:50<Celestar>has DBSet been released?
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07:55<@orudge>peter1138: oh, has he posted? I figured he would eventually
08:08<Celestar>my workorder to supply me with two more multi-plugs has been set to "in progress" 24 hours ago.
08:08<Celestar>I guess someone should send an S&R team to the storage rooms.
08:09<@planetmaker>you really work at a weired company, Celestar
08:09<Celestar>planetmaker: I'm a consultant. my job is attempt to make weird companies ... less weird :P
08:10<@planetmaker>ah, those ;-)
08:10<Celestar>thing is .. they rarely listen ...
08:10<andythenorth>Celestar: do a startup :P
08:10<andythenorth>less bullshit in startups
08:10<andythenorth>I've been doing a startup for 10 years
08:10<andythenorth>you'd think it might be done by now :P
08:10<Celestar>my employed at a "startup"..
08:11<Celestar>well we just celebrated the 10th anniversary.
08:17<Xaroth>Celestar: might want to send a S&R team for the S&R team as well :o
08:18<Celestar>Xaroth: yeah. have them on standby.
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08:25<Celestar>the loo is backing up. again.
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>issue a work order!
08:27<@planetmaker>not sure a backup of what's in there is really desirable
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08:27<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: I did. I do about every other week.
08:28*andythenorth ponders
08:28<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: issue more!
08:28<andythenorth>the game could use some kind of piping system
08:28<andythenorth>issue less stuff
08:28<andythenorth>then there's no backup
08:28<Celestar>one might think that in the age of nuclear powered vessels and interplanetary probes, one MIGHT be able to find someone to fix a stupid loo.
08:28<andythenorth>if the game had pipelines...
08:28<andythenorth>town -> waste plant -> fmsp
08:30<Eddi|zuHause>Celestar: all loo-fixing-jobs have been outsourced, so the knowledge has vanished
08:30<@planetmaker>so we need new houses, andythenorth ? :-)
08:31<@planetmaker>a firs houses set?
08:31<andythenorth>screw that :P
08:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: if i want to play simcity, i'll do that outside openttd
08:32<@planetmaker>then the nogo is not for you :-P
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: maybe not this script, indeed :)
08:36<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: how much knowledge is required for such a menial task?
08:36<Eddi|zuHause>how should i know... :)
08:40<Noldo>is this loo fixing somehow analogious to telephone cleaning mentioned in the hichhikers guide or one of the sequels
08:40*peter1138 ponders working on EZ-take2
08:41<Celestar>Noldo: apparently
08:41<@planetmaker>go, peter, go! ;-)
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08:45<Eddi|zuHause>seriously, ask yourself who in your extended friend/family circle deals in "Gas, Wasser, Scheiße"?
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08:54*andythenorth does ponder why pipelines etc are not considered transportation
09:01<@planetmaker>andythenorth, they are.
09:02<@planetmaker>But the fun factor has not quite been established: build and make money. done
09:02<@planetmaker>even more boring than planes ;-)
09:02<@planetmaker>but other than that, there's no real argument agains
09:02<@planetmaker>actually: you could make a railtype. Give me the graphics and I might code you that ;-)
09:02<Pinkbeast>This hasn't stopped Simutrans doing electricity supply on a similar basis...
09:03<andythenorth>planetmaker: rule out any assumption that they can be built underground
09:03<andythenorth>above ground only (or in expensive tunnels)
09:03<andythenorth>requires bridging to cross other routes
09:03<andythenorth>limit capacity to n units per tick
09:04<andythenorth>require booster stations to go up slope
09:04<andythenorth>booster stations occupy n tiles depending on power required
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09:05<andythenorth>do it right, and it adds interesting complexity to gameplay, rather than 'fire and forget' transport
09:05<andythenorth>also done right, it might be extensible beyond pipelines, to ropeways and such
09:05<Pinkbeast>If the capital and maintenance costs were (a bit artificially) high you'd have to get producer production levels up before it would be worthwhile.
09:05<andythenorth>also artificial limitation: pipelines can only route a -> b
09:05<@planetmaker>might make sense with the infra maintenance patch ;-)
09:05<andythenorth>but you can build transers
09:06<Pinkbeast>So then it wouldn't just be a no-brainer "here is my moneymaker at the start of the game" like vanilla OTTD coal transport
09:06<andythenorth>so you might route a -> b, then b->c and b->d
09:06<@planetmaker>sounds like lot of work, though :-)
09:06<@planetmaker>to implement
09:06<@planetmaker>and to draw
09:06<andythenorth>implement yes
09:06<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> actually: you could make a railtype. Give me the graphics and I might code you that ;-) <-- imho pipelines are easier "hacked" as roadtypes
09:07<@peter1138>you better implement roadtypes :)
09:07<@planetmaker>yes, that's true, Eddi|zuHause
09:07*andythenorth suspects it's a project of immense proportions :P
09:07<@planetmaker>though 1-tile trains might do the job just fine. with invisible signals. But they'd then have to be per railtype
09:08<Pinkbeast>Surely if pipelines are to exist they should be a real thing and not one of these dreadful hacks on some other transport types?
09:08<andythenorth>'continuous transport'
09:08<Pinkbeast>... especially with the 16 railtype limit looking a bit stretched in the NuTracks world
09:08<@peter1138>beer pipeline
09:08<@planetmaker>beer pipeline sounds good. I'll need a tea one, too, please
09:08<@planetmaker>Good concept for a fun toyland scenario
09:09<@peter1138>andythenorth, exactly
09:09<Pinkbeast>continuous transport> cable cars for passengers fit that as well
09:10<andythenorth>also moving walkways
09:10<andythenorth>like in the future
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: there are several different kinds of cable cars. but potentially that could be one of the pipeline-types (especially if one of the features is no crossings)
09:10<andythenorth>no crossings
09:10<andythenorth>or at least, no crossings at same height level
09:10<Eddi|zuHause>no switches i mean by that
09:10<andythenorth>bridge over / tunnel under
09:10<andythenorth>and no switches
09:10<andythenorth>transfers only
09:11<Eddi|zuHause>could be useful to connect to some remote tourist center
09:11<@planetmaker>pipeline for tourists? ;-)
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>"miscellaneous transport types"
09:12<andythenorth>nobody mention SG
09:12<andythenorth>it's everywhere recently :P
09:12<Eddi|zuHause>what's SG?
09:12<Pinkbeast>I think one with small gondolas leaving often, like the kind you get in ski resorts, is definitely "continuous transport", not modelling individual gondolas at all.
09:13<Pinkbeast>And if it runs at full speed irrespective of terrain it becomes viable in very hilly areas, which is what you wanted.
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: yes, but there's also the model that has two gondolas, when one is going up the other is going down
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: those can even be used for freight
09:14<Pinkbeast>Eddi> Indeed.
09:15<Pinkbeast>I think there's an argument that horse-drawn wagonways would be better implemented as "continuous transport" than 500 EGRVTS horse trams, too. :-/
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>there's some village in austria that's only reachable by cable car. no road access
09:15<Pinkbeast>I'm moving.
09:15<Eddi|zuHause>they ship entire trucks by cable car
09:16<Pinkbeast>Sure, but one thing at a time, I'm just thinking of things that _are_ continuous transport. :-)
09:22<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, vehicles in vehicles eh?
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>hm... not in this instance...
09:28<andythenorth>pipelines in trucks in cable cars on boats
09:28<andythenorth>all on a plane
09:29<Eddi|zuHause>elephants on a turtle
09:31<andythenorth>in space
09:31<V453000>with beer
09:32<@peter1138>hmm, how often would great a'tuin break down?
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10:06<Elukka>anno has a case of the pretties
10:07<andythenorth>whoever drew those pixels is very good
10:08<andythenorth>how many angles do they have to do? :P
10:08<Elukka>all the angles
10:08<Elukka>all of them
10:09<andythenorth>I suspect they might rely on a man called Ray
10:09<andythenorth>to do their painting
10:09<Elukka>hardware isn't actually powerful enough to do raytracing in games yet :P
10:11<andythenorth>what do they use? scanline rendering?
10:12<andythenorth>most of my CGI skills date back to 'make model, hit render, make lots of tea'
10:12<andythenorth>'go to sleep, make breakfast, more tea, look at screen, curse'
10:13<@planetmaker>game series
10:13<@peter1138>looks pretty good
10:14<@peter1138>and it's 5 years old... wtf?
10:15<Eddi|zuHause>if you do 3D stuff properly, you can just prepare your game settings to be yanked up in 5 years
10:15<@peter1138>when do we get that engine? hehe
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10:22<Elukka>the one the screenshot is from is anno 1404
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10:24<Elukka>andy: i'm not sure of the particulars
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10:26<Elukka>but raytracing is still a thing that takes at the very least several seconds
10:26<Elukka>which is obviously wildly inadequate when you need a new frame 30-60 times a second
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10:50<Eddi|zuHause>man... xkcd made me listen to a song :p
10:51<TrueBrain>I love Windows .... "Offline Availability: Not Available". "Offline Status: Online"
10:51<TrueBrain>confusion all there ...
10:52<@peter1138>ah, 1404... still 2 years old :)
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11:37<@peter1138>hmm, ez-take2 patch is smaller
11:37<@peter1138>doesn't work right yet :p
11:47<Ammler>does it support the existing ez-sprites?
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11:50<@peter1138>currently it supports fuckeduprendering™
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>tried the debug blitter yet? :)
11:51<@peter1138>it's not a blitter issue :p
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12:18<XeryusTC>Xaroth: anyway :P
12:19<Xaroth>:) ta
12:27<@peter1138>signals every other tile *cringe*
12:31<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: where was your patch for the new refit properties for nml?
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>err... one moment
12:32<Eddi|zuHause>the last one first
12:34<andythenorth>there was a nforenum patch as well...
12:34<andythenorth>that I tested as apparently working
12:34<@peter1138>needs to be a bit more complex now
12:34<@Yexo>andythenorth: I've just pushed that one
12:34<@Yexo>after fixing it to use the new property numbers
12:35<@peter1138>yay for hysterical raisins :S
12:35*andythenorth suspects HEQS might be going nightly only soon
12:36<@planetmaker>andythenorth: that's something which _can_ be done in a backward compatible way
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12:39<z-MaTRiX>what do you think of my fillrate benchmark code?
12:40<z-MaTRiX>dd if=/dev/zero bs=65536 count=48 of=/dev/fb0
12:45<@peter1138>semolina pilchards?
12:47<Xaroth>XeryusTC: under the settings menu, select "Competitor signs and names are displayed" .. that works.
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12:50<+michi_cc>Somebody should tell oberhuemer to use a line ending aware editor... The CETS commit diffs get quite useless this way...
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>there are diff options to ignore whitespace
12:52<@planetmaker>still michi is right
12:53<XeryusTC>Xaroth: ofcourse i forgot about that option xD thanks :)
12:54<XeryusTC>at #openttdcoop we all complained to planetmaker for introducing that feature :P
12:54<XeryusTC>because our screenshots didnt have signs in them anymore xD
12:54<Xaroth>XeryusTC: what'd ye think of my claiming-town attempt?
12:54<TrueBrain>I just fix it to show neutral signs :P
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13:05<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: can the makefile be extended to create two grfs of the same source? (so we can generate a separate grf for the narrow gauge vehicles?)
13:06<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: opengfx already does so, so yes, it can
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13:08<Eddi|zuHause>i'm still not sure whether narrow gauge would better be modeled as tram
13:08<Ryxen>Hi all
13:08<Ryxen>i have a question
13:08<Ryxen>i hoped someone could help me with it
13:09<Ryxen>its about the map maker tools
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>"EU forbids putting 'water helps against dehydration' on food packaging"
13:10<Ryxen>could someone help me?
13:10<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: it needs no extension. Just define two files in the TARGET_FILES in Makefile.config
13:10<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: NG - depends on the kind of NG
13:11<andythenorth>if it's unsignalled, low speed, then yes
13:11<andythenorth>otherwise better as a rail type
13:12<Ryxen>Is there a way i can undo my last creation move in a custom made map
13:12<Ryxen>creation = action.
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>Ryxen: only by loading a savegame
13:15<Ryxen>because i loved this game more then others
13:16<Ryxen>but when creating a map and puss the button place random industrie to mutch!!!
13:16<Ryxen>you must delete everything 1 by 1
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13:17<Eddi|zuHause>Ryxen: if you load your scenario in the nightly version, you can use "export as heightmap" feature
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>(note that scenarios created in the nightly version will not load in older stable versions)
13:18<Ryxen>maby im stupid but how do i load it in nightly version i never heared of it
13:20<@planetmaker>same as in stables
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>Ryxen: if you go on you get two options: "download stable" and "download nightly"
13:20<@planetmaker>but for savegames and scenarios there's no way back to then use them in stable, once used in a nightly
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>(sporadically you also get "download testing")
13:21<@planetmaker>like now
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>(but that is not relevant in this case)
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>we don't have any 1.1.x screenshots
13:23-!-ptr is now known as Guest17920
13:23<Ryxen>do you mean version 1.1.4.rc1?
13:24<@planetmaker>that's testing, yes
13:25<Ryxen>could you plz help me where i can download that nightly?
13:25<Ryxen>im on the main page
13:25<@planetmaker>look up left
13:25<@planetmaker>read the three download options. stop at the 3rd and read again
13:26<@planetmaker>especially the 3rd which reads "Download nightly"
13:26<Ryxen>ok thx
13:26<Ryxen>never looked there
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13:26<Ryxen>thx bro
13:26<Ryxen>i hoped this will help
13:26<Ryxen>see ya
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13:28<@peter1138>i doubt it :)
13:29*planetmaker finds this conversation hard to believe
13:29<TrueBrain>he bro, he figured it out bro
13:29<TrueBrain>no worries bro
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>forgot "g"
13:31<@planetmaker>did I mention that I don't fancy being 'bro' of random people?
13:31<@planetmaker>especially in these conversations ;-)
13:31<TrueBrain>well bro, it means you need to smoke more pod bro
13:31<TrueBrain>I mean bro, there is nothing wrong with the word bro
13:31<TrueBrain>bro, this is silly :D
13:31<@Terkhen>yeah bro
13:32<TrueBrain>bro, Eddi|zuHause, can I please remove that sed from my talk list, it is a bit annoying :D
13:32<TrueBrain>broz :D
13:33<@planetmaker>off to sports then. I guess, I'll either provide good serves (to hit away the stupidity) or provide bad ones (because of still laughing). Not sure yet
13:38<SmatZ>Eddi|zuHause: that site looks interesting
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>it hurts my eyes, though
13:39<SmatZ>well, there seem to be links to some books that might be interesting
13:39*andythenorth is playing MP NoGo
13:39<andythenorth>and doing it all wrong
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23292 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt dutch.txt swedish.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: catalan - 57 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: dutch - 8 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: swedish - 9 changes by Zuu
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16:04<@Terkhen> good night
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16:22<andythenorth>hello Zephyris
16:22<Zephyris>Hey, how's it going?
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16:28<volta>hi folks; i'm somehow stuck by my own stupidity: i'm running a game with the newgrfs "pikka's basic industries" and "UKRS industries brick chain" and the default train set; somehow i'm missing wagons for the new cargos ... any idea which newgrf provides those wagons?
16:31<TWerkhoven[l]>oldwagons newcargos or something similar named
16:32<@planetmaker>volta: basically every vehicle newgrf does
16:32<TWerkhoven[l]>or you could try ukrs or nars vehicle sets
16:32<@planetmaker>I'd recommend ogfx+trains and ogfx+road vehicles
16:32<@planetmaker>they keep the spirit of the existing vehicles, but give you support for every cargo, including special graphics for most
16:33<@planetmaker>I'm biased though ;-)
16:33<TrueBrain>really? :P
16:33<volta>ok, i guess i'll have to start over with the new newgrf then
16:34<@planetmaker>volta: also use FISH and if you feel like HEQS
16:34<@planetmaker>(ships and more RV + trams)
16:34<Sacro>and perhaps TSHI
16:34<Sacro>and FKCU
16:34<@planetmaker>bless you
16:34<TrueBrain>you guys have more 4 letter words? :)
16:34*Sacro ponders some new grfs
16:35<volta>i just use trains anyways
16:35<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: for nearly every newgrf, sure ;-) But Sacro is making it up :-(
16:35<TrueBrain>owh, and he is making them up ......
16:36<frosch123>two letter words are nicknames, 4 letter words are grfs
16:37<TrueBrain>fros: ah, k
16:38<frosch123>i am no grf :/
16:38<TrueBrain>owh ...
16:38<TrueBrain>sorry fr
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>how far can a discussion derail? (german forum)
16:39<appe>theme jokes.
16:39<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: are you challenged? :p
16:41<Sacro>he's german
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16:50<appe>sweet mother of god
16:51<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: <-- that helps ;-)
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17:01<andythenorth>good night
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17:11<Jabol>I had a nice idea that would make OpenTTD more "reallistic".
17:12<Jabol>But then I realized I cannot make this.
17:12<@planetmaker>realism is not a design goal. Fun is ;-)
17:13<Jabol>Yeah I know, but I had an idea about day/night cycle that would give some climate to OpenTTD.
17:13<Jabol>If I could know coding and be a very good spriter, I would make a newGRF of it.
17:14<@planetmaker>that would need significant changes. Though houses, industries, objects, rails, ... they can change depending on date
17:14<@planetmaker>but the terrain can't
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17:15<Jabol>Well, if that would be possible to me, I would make trains have glowing lights, the signalizators glow too, make the terrain darker when there's night, etc...
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17:16<frosch123>no games every annoyed me more, than those with day/night cycles or weather
17:16<@planetmaker>you know though that a day lasts 2.2 seconds?
17:16<@planetmaker>you'd have a flashing with 1Hz ;-)
17:17<frosch123>the most realistic day/night cycle is: work at day, play openttd at night :p
17:18<@planetmaker>lol, frosch123 :-)
17:18<Jabol>Woah, I didn't know.
17:19<Jabol>You don't know what are signalizators?
17:19<@peter1138>planetmaker, wouldn't it then be 0.4545 Hz?
17:19<@peter1138>oh balls, i should've named it YAEZ
17:20<Jabol>Argh, my dreams shattered.
17:20<frosch123>peter1138: start again then. do not pass "start", do not collect 4000$
17:20<Jabol>I would love to see speeding trains with glowing lights at the night.
17:21<Jabol>You know, immortal daylight can get boring fastly
17:29<@Yexo>Jabol: the biggest problem is the amount of sprites that would have to be created
17:29<@Yexo>coding-wise it's quite easy
17:30<@peter1138>^ there, that's better (it's the same)
17:31<@peter1138>there is of course the slight problem of memory usage :S
17:32<frosch123>it is not suitable for cellphones?
17:33<@peter1138>the sprite cache needs to be about 20x larger
17:34<frosch123>did you add 4 additional zoom levels?
17:34<@peter1138>no, 2
17:34<frosch123>hmm, right
17:35<Jabol>Also it is just me or OpenTTD's graphics would be nice for an RTS?
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17:37<@peter1138>should be possible to not encode 2x/4x sprites until they're requested
17:38<@planetmaker>peter1138: it's nice. But it makes the game unplayable slow for me
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17:38<@planetmaker>even with nothing but a newly generated map
17:38<@planetmaker>mouse cursor movement with < 1fps is... not helpful :-(
17:39<@planetmaker>at least during station placement
17:40<@peter1138>planetmaker, increase your spritecache size
17:41<@peter1138>from 4 to 64
17:41<@peter1138>22:33 <@peter1138> the sprite cache needs to be about 20x larger
17:41<@peter1138>unlike certain other EZ patches i don't force it :p
17:41<@planetmaker>right. I forgot that I need to adjust that manually
17:42<@planetmaker>that quite solves it indeed
17:42<@peter1138>smallmap is known broken, by the way
17:42<@peter1138>haven't worked on it yet, is all
17:43<@planetmaker>the increased memory usage is IMHO no problem for modern PCs.
17:45<frosch123>3840 x 1080 is not enough to play when zoomed in
17:45<frosch123>i suppose it is not meant for playing :)
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>i guess the sprite cache should be automatically adjusted to zoom level
17:46<@planetmaker>you simply need it when compiled with that patch. Irrespective of current zoom level, Eddi|zuHause
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>then the additional zoom levels should be disable-able
17:47<@planetmaker>anyhow, peter1138, with the bigger sprite cache it works very nice and smooth
17:47<@planetmaker>and it looks good when zoomed-in
17:47<@planetmaker>is it really *2 and *4?
17:48<@planetmaker>It feels like *1.5 and *3 or so :-)
17:49<@planetmaker>LordAro should see this ;-)
17:49<Jabol>I wish there could be more games with graphics like OpenTTD.
17:50<frosch123>wow, timmaexx shows an example how to make the meaning of a whole paragraph depend on a single punctuation mark :o
17:50<frosch123>! vs ?
17:52<@planetmaker>hm, does it?
17:53<frosch123>ending his post with an "!" or and "?" completely reverses it
17:54<@planetmaker>for me it's the difference maybe between annoyed and satiric
17:54<@planetmaker>vice versa actually
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17:55<frosch123>? would require a smiley
17:58<@planetmaker>peter1138: damn, it's really nice with the zoom levels :-)
17:58<frosch123>planetmaker: 32bpp topic is more active than ttdp :p
17:58<@planetmaker>how that it makes sense also with the usual graphics and doesn't require special sprites
17:58<@planetmaker>or otherwise ugly looking sprites
17:59<@planetmaker>he, indeed. I saw the numbers but didn't make that comparison ;-)
17:59<frosch123>well, if it was the other way around, i might have posted it :p
18:00<frosch123>just to troll the 32bpp guys
18:00<@planetmaker>it's been VERY silent lately
18:00<@planetmaker>maquinista or so seems to have moved to lomo
18:01<@planetmaker>and he produced lots of sprites
18:03<frosch123>hmm, andy is already gone
18:03<frosch123>i wanted to ask him whether he envies ttdp for their suggestion topic
18:05<frosch123>hmm, the number of posts in the ottd dev forum actually suprises me
18:05<frosch123>i expected suggestions to be way more
18:06<@planetmaker>there are many postings for each posting which presents a patch
18:07<@planetmaker>less so for suggestions
18:07<Jabol>I always found this weird to see people making smileys with "-" noses.
18:07<@planetmaker>btw, I'm more surprised about the general forum being so active ;-)
18:08<@peter1138>- noses are traditional
18:08<+michi_cc>peter1138: Would it be feasible to have a sprite cache per zoom level so you don't need to store the encoded sprite data for all zoom levels even if they're never shown?
18:08<frosch123>planetmaker: offtopic and forumgames?
18:08<@peter1138>michi_cc, i think it is
18:08<frosch123>i think i was once in the forumsgames section... i ran away fast
18:09<@planetmaker>it could never really interest me either
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18:09<@planetmaker>so... do we need a 'universal' rail wagon?
18:09<@planetmaker>Like which can be refit to another wagon type in a depot
18:09<frosch123>i mostly notice it, when i see someone with "4000 posts" post somewhere, and i do not know him :p
18:09<@planetmaker>and refit to whatever cargo fits the current wagon in stations?
18:09<@peter1138>planetmaker, but it might be fun :)
18:10<@planetmaker>refit costs in depot to another wagon of course like buy - sill
18:10<@peter1138>frosch123, yeah... and then there's all those people lamenting the people who left... who i've never heard of...
18:11<+michi_cc>So GetSprite() would query if the sprite in the wanted zoom level is already stored, and if not would load it and call Blitter::Encode() to only store that zoom level. You wouldn't even need to blow up the sprite just to shrink it the original size then either.
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18:12<@planetmaker>gnight fro
18:12<@planetmaker>damn! ;-)
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18:13<@peter1138>michi_cc, YASC ;)
18:14<@peter1138>the -simple blitters never store resized versions anyway
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18:20<@peter1138>interesting tidbit
18:21<@peter1138>change ZOOM_LVL_GUI to be 2X instead of 4X :)
18:21<@peter1138>it mostly works... hehe
18:27<Jabol>Oh right, in what language is OpenTTD coded with?
18:31<Jabol>Very funny
18:32<Jabol>But now seriously: In what language?
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>lots of them
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18:57<Xaroth>Jabol: check the codebase?
18:57<Xaroth>and lol @ Neon's quitmsg.
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19:03<Zuu>Wasn't there a website which had a graph over how much of the checked in source code that is written in different languages?
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19:11<Eddi|zuHause>not sure where they get "XML" from
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19:12<@planetmaker>I miss the objective C
19:13<@planetmaker>but maybe that's "Other" ;-)
19:14<@planetmaker>and I should scroll
19:14<+glx>VB is wrong, it's VBS :)
19:15<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: From the MSVC project files.
19:15<+glx>ha right
19:16<+michi_cc>And for the C entry I guess they count .h as C and not C++.
19:28*peter1138 smirks at people discovering 4 year old features
19:29<Eddi|zuHause>well... it IS a "hidden feature" :p
19:33<@peter1138>YAEZ is now 31KB
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19:34<@peter1138>24KB smaller than the last one
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20:24<Eddi|zuHause>the third time you can get it in 7kB!
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---Logclosed Wed Nov 23 00:00:22 2011