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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-11-23

---Logopened Wed Nov 23 00:00:22 2011
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04:10<lugo>in opengfx 0.3.4, when you set the bank chain to gold and diamonds, both have the same in color in the cargo payment rates diagram
04:10<lugo>tested for tropic climate only yet; is that known?
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04:13<@peter1138>when you what?
04:14<@planetmaker> <-- In opengfx+ Industries: yes
04:14<@planetmaker>assuming that minimap and cargo payment colour is the same
04:14<@peter1138>oh, opengfx+ industries
04:14<@peter1138>not opengfx
04:15<@planetmaker>yes. It's quite a bit of a difference :-)
04:17<lugo>oops i accidently..
04:25<@peter1138>hmm, right, i ought to fix that smallmap
04:25<@peter1138>river generation has created a 9x9 square lake :p
04:30<@peter1138>tgp really sucks for artic/tropic :(
04:30*Celestar wonders whether vim triggers a BufRead event if it reads from stdin
04:30<@peter1138>oh wait, the snow line was set to 13. no wonder nothing much was above it
04:31<@peter1138>even so, it's still not great :S
04:31<@peter1138>and as i say that i get the best map ever
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05:04<dihedral>killed an old nameserver yesterday at work
05:04<dihedral>today we noticed that enough domains were still running over it due to someone simply having added iptables rules to forward port 53 to the current nameservers in use
05:10<@peter1138>how does refitting alter the number of articulated parts?
05:10<@peter1138>or is it a magic trick?
05:10<@planetmaker>magic trick
05:11<@planetmaker>use CB36 for length and don't draw all parts
05:13<@peter1138>2x zoom is nice
05:14<@planetmaker>very much so, yes
05:14<@peter1138>4x is... erm... silly but never mind
05:14<@planetmaker>doesn't hurt ;-)
05:14<@planetmaker>maybe the max_zoomlevel should be a config file only option to allow continued use on low-memory devices?
05:24<@peter1138>hmm, where's that vehicle following code...
05:24<@peter1138>it only works on ZOOM_LVL_NORMAL for no reason :)
05:38<@peter1138>planetmaker, you're using the 32bpp blitter, right?
05:39<@planetmaker>that's right
05:39<@planetmaker>at least currently
05:39<@planetmaker>that varies
05:39<@peter1138>me too :)
05:40<@peter1138>that alone requires 5x the spritecache size
05:40<@peter1138>old 8bpp -> ez 32bpp needs 105x spritecache o_O
05:40<@planetmaker>but setting it to 80 instead of 4 worked fine
05:40<@peter1138>except the max is 64 :)
05:40<@peter1138>i changed that too
05:40<@peter1138>64 isn't enough if you have a load of newgrfs loaded
05:41<@peter1138>should be plenty in 8bpp though
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05:43<@peter1138>quick hide
05:43*andythenorth hides
05:44<andythenorth>why are we hiding? :o
05:44<@peter1138>i'm playing with FIRS
05:44<@planetmaker> <-- because dikes broke
05:45<@peter1138>but i only linked two industries :p
05:45*andythenorth will definitely hide in that case
05:45<@peter1138>planetmaker, uh?
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05:45<@planetmaker>not your doing, peter1138 ;-)
05:45<@planetmaker>I broke them
05:45<@peter1138>looks similar :p
05:46<@planetmaker>I still have your patch, though ;-)
05:46<@peter1138>really? :D
05:46<@peter1138>i think yaez works a bit better than the last variant
05:46<@peter1138>it's also... smaller
05:46<andythenorth>oh noes
05:46<andythenorth>you'll be able to see all the errors in FIRS :P
05:47<@peter1138>i should've grabbed newstations :S
05:47<andythenorth>just add it to your game
05:48<@peter1138>could do
05:48<@peter1138>but i'd have to ignore the big red warning
05:49<@peter1138>i could really break things
05:49<@peter1138>by changing TILE_SIZE to 64 :p
05:50<@peter1138>you'd get smoother movement, mind you
05:50<@peter1138>but all those tile layouts would be wrong
05:51<@peter1138>could be multiplied i guess
05:51<andythenorth>peter1138: you *have* developer newgrf tools turned on right?
05:51<@peter1138>so you'd only notice a difference for slow moving vehicles... probably not worth it :D
05:52<@peter1138>andythenorth, yes, though i don't develop them these days
05:52<@peter1138>i don't have newstats installed :p
05:53<andythenorth>we should change that message to 'with great power etc...'
05:56<@peter1138>i forgot to set up a bus route in one of the towns
05:56<@peter1138>now it hates me :(
05:57<@planetmaker>plant trees
05:58<@peter1138>the tree planter in arctic... has 12 slots but only 8 are usable
05:58<@peter1138>last 4 are empty
05:59<@peter1138>can they just be hidden?
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06:00<Xaroth>mega screenshots are indeed, mega...
06:01<Xaroth>imagemagick is not giving me the love I need...
06:01<Xaroth>takes half an hour to even begin doing something
06:02<@peter1138>heh, cool, a 200+ tile long river :)
06:03<@peter1138>oh, FISH introduction dates were never done :S
06:04<@peter1138>Tick 15214: GRF config changed
06:09<@peter1138>erm, i mean
06:09<@peter1138>planetmaker, have you tried to build a ship?
06:09<andythenorth>peter1138: FISH introduction dates definitely were done :)
06:09<andythenorth>they were done wrong
06:09<@planetmaker>no, should I?
06:09<@peter1138>andythenorth, 1870? :(
06:10<andythenorth>I decided that for ships, moar > accuracy
06:10<andythenorth>at least until I find a drawing slave
06:12<@peter1138>ok, what's good for 2 fishing grounds of 45t?
06:12<andythenorth>a boat
06:12<@planetmaker>peter1138: I guess the window could become _slightly_ smaller ;-)
06:13<andythenorth>peter1138: depends on how far you need to go, and if you want to arse about with feeders
06:13<@planetmaker>I never thought that FISH would look tiny...
06:15<@peter1138>everything needs "testing"
06:17<TrueBrain>right, time to write OpenDoom3, who wants to help? *me whistles 10 seconds* there, done! EPIC!
06:18<TrueBrain>(Doom 3 source code is released, FYI :P)
06:18<@planetmaker>I know ;-)
06:18<TrueBrain>just telling the others :P
06:24<@peter1138>now you just need 5+ years for someone to make some 32bpp artwork ;p
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07:26<@peter1138>planetmaker, fixed that...
07:27<@planetmaker>sweet :-) I'll give it a shot once gimp is finished building :-O
07:27<@peter1138>gimp: the reason gnome is
07:29<@peter1138>hmm, snappy name, really... GNU's Not Unix Image Manipulation Program Tool Kit
07:29<@planetmaker>yes... currently gtk builds...
07:30<@peter1138>hmm, the sprite aligner is wrong :)
07:35<@planetmaker>peter1138: maybe you should make a repo of it like tb did with nogo which could be compiled. It'd please the few remaining EZ people :-)
07:36<@peter1138>but it's tiny
07:43<MNIM>I was *this* far from accidentally posting my password here
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>don't worry, if you post your password here, it'll be replaced with ******
08:02<MNIM>it doesn't work!
08:12<Eddi|zuHause>it'll be displayed for you, because it's your password
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08:12<Eddi|zuHause>but for us it's ******
08:13<@planetmaker>:-) you two read too much
08:13<MNIM>Haven't, lately
08:14<Eddi|zuHause>haven't read that in ages
08:18<@peter1138>it is a bit of a classic that one
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08:35<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: (NameError) "global name 'expression' is not defined". "nml/actions/", line 221, in ctt_list
08:35<@Yexo>remove "expression." from there
08:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23293 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make LoadScript/LoadFile non-static
08:38<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23294 /trunk/src/script/squirrel_helper.hpp: -Codechange: sq_pop in native callback is just a waste of CPU cycles, as the top is reset in all cases
08:39<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23295 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: put ImportLibrary in AIController (and document the parameters for NoAI docs)
08:42<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23296 /trunk/src/town.h: -Codechange: I found a fund building, but do I fund found buildings?
08:43<Eddi|zuHause>how are you funding buildings if you haven't found them yet?
08:43<TrueBrain>a valid question ;)
08:43<TrueBrain>I just dislike to have to pay to found buildings :P
08:44<Noldo>is founding buildings the process of making foundations for the buildings?
08:44<Eddi|zuHause>(of course there's a huge difference between "found" and "founded")
08:44<TrueBrain>I think it is a spotter who locates the buildings in a town
08:44<TrueBrain>and says: FOUND ONE
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08:45<Eddi|zuHause>in german we have a saying that translates to "you can't see the forest, because all the trees are in the way"
08:45<@planetmaker>it's easy to find a building in town, it's moderately difficult to fund one and somewhat near impossible to found one ;-)
08:45<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: the dutch have that one too
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08:54<Eddi|zuHause>that reminds me of the first time i realized that "forest" and "trees" are something different in Transport Tycoon
08:54<TrueBrain>a lot of trees doesnt make a forest :D
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>these forests _really_ were hidden between all the trees :)
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>i think i noticed because i couldn't remove some trees, while i could remove others
08:55<TrueBrain>broz :D
08:55<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: can't see the wood for the trees?
08:55<Eddi|zuHause>Sacro: yes, if that's what you people say
08:55<@planetmaker>hey bro, be careful with the trees ;-)
08:57<__ln__>finns have that too, both in finnish and swedish
08:58<Eddi|zuHause>must be a _really old_ saying
09:03<@peter1138>who wants EZ?
09:07<Rubidium>enduring zabernism?
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09:14<@peter1138>andythenorth doesn't though
09:14<andythenorth>I do though
09:14<andythenorth>whatever it was
09:14<Rubidium>oh, andy wants enduring zabernism... poor andy
09:17<andythenorth>sounds terrible
09:17<andythenorth>I want EZ and a pixel editor in the game
09:17<andythenorth>just hook it to a png library and grfcodec, we're all done
09:25<@peter1138>hmm, i wonder if i can use this 200+ tile long river :D
09:26<@peter1138>hmm, oil
09:26<@peter1138>but the refinery is inland :(
09:26<@planetmaker>yes, rivers liketo have oil added to them ;-)
09:27<@planetmaker>especially the shell river which comes from lake aral and goes into the exxon sea
09:37<@peter1138>hmm, tooltip position is wrong
09:38<@peter1138>ah, cursor size. hmm.
09:44<@peter1138>fixed ;D
09:44<@Belugas>we have our first snow fall! 5cm during the night, and we are expecting 2-4 more today
09:44<Eddi|zuHause>man you're glad!
09:45<Eddi|zuHause>and you're 44 minutes late :p
09:47<@peter1138>hmm, still some broken bits :p
09:51<andythenorth>rivers are never where you want them :P
09:51<andythenorth>how about we try building towns and industries and crap near rivers?
09:57<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, not really glad, as you would guess ;) My son was delirious on his way to school. And the drivers on the road were so cautious (or stupid, which is quite the same sometimes) that it took me longer to get in, thus the late arrival
09:57<@peter1138> < bug free™
09:59<@Belugas>haaa... zoom out more levels :)
09:59<TrueBrain>what? peter1138 made OpenTTD bug free? EPIC! :D
10:00<@Belugas>i though it was a zoom in
10:00<@Belugas>not disappointed, note :)
10:00<@peter1138>no, it is
10:00<@Belugas>TrueBrain, he's practicing for work :D
10:00<@Belugas>it is?
10:00*Belugas reads more closely
10:04<@peter1138>ah, 4x 8bpp-debug :p
10:19<@peter1138> < funny mishap i had earlier :D
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>looks like a bobby car on lego-roads :p
10:24<andythenorth>peter1138: that's not a mishap, you clearly are using HEQS
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>for the extra heavy passengers? :p
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>must be in america :p
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10:26<@peter1138>that mask looks a bit shoddy around the edges :p
10:35*peter1138 ponders
10:37*andythenorth does that occasionally
10:37<andythenorth>so....grfv8 should remove prop 1D trains (and equiv. other vehicle types)? Or not?
10:39<@peter1138>it would just add more code for no reason
10:39*Belugas cannot understand the zoom in part...
10:39*Belugas decides to go back to payment processing instead
10:39*andythenorth goes back to making the internets
10:39<@peter1138>Belugas, it's sneaky. i changed the base tile size
10:40<@peter1138>(but not via TILE_SIZE, cos that would just mess everything up)
10:40<@peter1138>andythenorth, removing a property is a different kettle of fish from "removing" a callback, which is really just a case of not calling it
10:41<andythenorth>kettles provide tea
10:42*andythenorth -> tea
10:42<@peter1138>same here
10:43*Belugas hums
10:44<@peter1138>everyone's busy reviewing nogo, maybe i should just sneak this in now ;p
10:46<Noldo>what's this?
10:48<@planetmaker>maybe it needs some zooming in onto the patch to find its effect
10:50<@peter1138>i left a little teaser on the screenshots forum ;)
10:51<@peter1138>(it's the dodgy image)
10:51<Rubidium>peter1138: "zoomed in screenshot" does actually zoom out when zoomed in
10:52<@peter1138>probably :)
10:53<@peter1138>ah it uses ZOOM_LVL_WORLD_SCREENSHOT for zoomed in... ok...
10:54<Rubidium>the question is which zoom level the screenshot should be made in
10:55<@peter1138>i'm going for ZOOM_LVL_NORMAL
10:55<@peter1138>it does says zoomed in, after all
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10:56<@peter1138>good call though, i've not tested any screenshots other than ^S
10:56<@peter1138>i didn't know zoomed in even existed, actually
10:57<@peter1138>hmm, giant screenshot is the right size
10:57<@peter1138>but it's in the wrong place
11:00<@peter1138>building docks on rivers is awkward
11:03<@peter1138>silly boat, you're going the wrong way
11:04<Rubidium>hmm, one "big" problem with 4x zoom: glitches become so much more noticable
11:04<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23297 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp table/control_codes.h table/strgen_tables.h): -Add: {CARGO_TINY} (Rubidium)
11:05<@peter1138>which glitches?
11:05<Rubidium>e.g. fence vs bridge pylon and signal vs bridge pylon
11:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23298 /trunk/ (19 files in 4 dirs): -Add: track statistics of all incoming and outgoing goods. Incoming based on TownEffect, outgoing based on CargoType (based on patch by Terkhen)
11:06<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23299 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_company.hpp ai_industry.hpp ai_town.hpp): -Codechange: remove silly comments from AI documentation
11:06<Xaroth>he's on fireh :o
11:06<Rubidium>and ship on aqueduct bridge head with a bridge over it
11:07<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23300 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: show on the GUI when a town grows and make a general framework to store goals of a town
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11:08<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23301 /trunk/src/lang/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: remove changed strings from all languages and alter those we can
11:09<Rubidium>must say signal states are much easier to distinguish though
11:09<@peter1138>that looks illy, yes
11:09<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23302 /trunk/src/ai/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Add: [NoAI] AITown::GetCargoGoal and AITown::GetGrowthRate to query statistics about a town regarding its growing
11:10<@peter1138>never used aqueducts. that issue is in trunk too, yes?
11:10<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23303 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Add: economy.fund_buildings, to disallow funding buildings
11:10<Rubidium>peter1138: I guess it is; you didn't change the sprite sorting, did you?
11:11<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23304 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Add: bump the savegame to start storing the new bits and pieces
11:13<@peter1138>i wonder if ships could be fixed a bit by drawing them as subsprites
11:14<@peter1138>such a huge bounding box :)
11:16<@planetmaker>I gave "you" another two screenshots, peter1138 ;-)
11:17<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23305 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_cargo.cpp: -Fix (r23298): warning about comparing different enums
11:22<Rubidium>peter1138: enduring zabernism seems to work (I at least couldn't find a place that misbehaves)
11:22<Rubidium>besides the "zoomed in" screenshot that might need renaming to "normal zoom" screenshot or so
11:23<@peter1138>i changed it so that it is zoomed in now
11:23<@peter1138>makes sense for if larger sprites are used. or something. hmm.
11:25<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23306 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_cargo.cpp ai_changelog.hpp): -Fix (r23302): forgot to mention AITownEffectList in the Changelog
11:29<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23307 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_cargo.cpp: -Revert (r23306): committed one file too many :s
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11:35<@planetmaker>can I conditionally skip the parameter of a string in a translation?
11:35<@planetmaker>i.e. not ouput the value "1"?
11:36<TrueBrain>user example?
11:36<TrueBrain>user = use
11:36<@planetmaker>your strings ;-)
11:36<@planetmaker>{BLACK}Town grows every {ORANGE}{COMMA}{BLACK} day{P "" s} (funded)
11:37<@planetmaker>The town grows continuously
11:37<@planetmaker>The town grows daily
11:37<@planetmaker>The town grows every {COMMA} days
11:37<TrueBrain>never considered those options :D
11:37<TrueBrain>I kinda like them :)
11:37<TrueBrain>but that would be a bad translation ;)
11:38<@planetmaker>into AE ;-)
11:38<TrueBrain>so change english.txt or translate 1 on 1
11:38<@Yexo>{BLACK}Town grows {0:P "daily" "every {ORANGE}{COMMA}{BLACK} days"} (funded) <- you can try that
11:39<@Yexo>but it's unsupported, and probably doesn't work
11:39<TrueBrain>planetmaker: AE?
11:39<@planetmaker>american english
11:39<TrueBrain>ah :)
11:39<TrueBrain>I guess it should be done from the source
11:39<TrueBrain>in case of 1 (or < 1), make it another string
11:40<TrueBrain>The town grows every day
11:40<TrueBrain>that would be nice too :)
11:40<TrueBrain>The town grows every 1 day looks silly ..
11:40<TrueBrain>meh :D
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11:41<Xaroth>eeeeeeeeeeeeeee :o
11:41<TrueBrain>I see your point planetmaker :)
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11:43<Rubidium>Yexo: it definitely doesn't work, and if it did would only be a solution for a few languages
11:44<TrueBrain>don't more places have the same issue?
11:45<@planetmaker>Not that I know
11:47<TrueBrain>funny :D
11:47<@Yexo><Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: (NameError) "global name 'expression' is not defined". "nml/actions/", line 221, in ctt_list <- was that fixed by removing the ".expression" from that line?
11:49<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: I can't translate {CARGO_TINY}
11:49<@planetmaker>Invalid command {CARGO_TINY}
11:49<@planetmaker>Missing a {UNKNOWN0} command
11:49<@Yexo>planetmaker: bananas checks valid commands via strgen output
11:49<@Yexo>so you'll have to wait for the next strgen update
11:50<@Yexo>hmm, how is strgen actually compiled?
11:50<TrueBrain>planetmaker: gimme a sec to fix that
11:51<TrueBrain>planetmaker: does it work now?
11:52<TrueBrain>I forgot to update strgen during my commits, so I am unsure if I have to revalidate everything or not :)
11:52<@planetmaker>nope, doesn't work yet
11:53<@Yexo>the changes to table/control_codes.h and table/strgen_tables.h should be enough for strgen
11:53<TrueBrain>bah; means i need to revalidate the whole set .. I dont want to ...
11:54<TrueBrain>I just want to redo those two strings
11:54<TrueBrain>think .. think ...
11:56<TrueBrain>owh well
11:56<TrueBrain>takes about 20 to 40 minutes to do this, so sit tight :)
11:56<TrueBrain>Yexo: strgen is compiled by a checkout, I think from extra/strgen or something?
11:57<TrueBrain>that is compiled, and then WT3 calls it with -export-commands
11:57<TrueBrain>but it is not automated (for which-ever reason)
11:57<@Yexo>strgen is part of /trunk
11:57<TrueBrain>the /extra/strgen picks the right pieces and bits
11:57<TrueBrain>a special makefile, and in /trunk it takes the latest trunk checkout
11:57<TrueBrain>our regular magic :)
11:58<TrueBrain>(note the svn:external)
11:59<TrueBrain>that is used by both the WT3 as the CF :)
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12:15<z-MaTRiX>i brought something new for your entertainment
12:16<z-MaTRiX>(grep -Po '<a +.* +href="*[^" >]+' | grep -Po '(?=<a ).*' | grep -Po '(?<= href=)["]*[^" >]+' | sed 's;^";;') <<< '<a gfasg href=asdf><a fgfgg="hi> " href="link" >'
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12:35<z-MaTRiX>perl regexp parsing html links
12:36<z-MaTRiX>its this ougly because its not smart enough
12:37*valhallasw calls jwz
12:39*Belugas congrats peter1138 for been so tricky :)
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12:47<@Terkhen> <-- I can't compile to know for sure... what does (funded) means in this context? that someone funded the creation of new buildings?
12:47<@Terkhen>hi frosch123
12:47<frosch123>Terkhen: that someone bought the "fund buildings" thingie in the town gui
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12:50<Xaroth>yes, frosch123
12:50<Xaroth>er, Terkhen even
12:50<Xaroth>silly me
12:50<@Terkhen>ok, thanks :)
12:51<Xaroth>one of the last dozen changes introduced it
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13:01<Eddi|zuHause><Yexo> <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: (NameError) "global name 'expression' is not defined". "nml/actions/", line 221, in ctt_list <- was that fixed by removing the ".expression" from that line? <-- yes, looks like it
13:02<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> so....grfv8 should remove prop 1D trains (and equiv. other vehicle types)? Or not? <-- no, just add a note in the specs that the new props are "better"
13:06<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: fine by me
13:07<andythenorth>I would like to have 'YACS' as a spec. It's a spec about how to use the features that are available...
13:07<andythenorth>it's not the spec for ottd code
13:07<andythenorth>just a convention
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i should probably update openttd first before testing the refit properties :p
13:08*andythenorth proposes YACS needs a benevolent dictator
13:09*andythenorth proposes Eddi|zuHause
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause>bäh... conflict... in train_cmd.cpp...
13:10<@peter1138>andythenorth, aww, that's sweet
13:11<andythenorth>better him than me
13:11<andythenorth>we don't actually know if he's benevolent
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13:12<Zuu>Am I right that currently there is no interface to set town goals in OpenTTD trunk?
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13:16<TrueBrain>you are right
13:16<TrueBrain>there is nothing in trunk which is qualified to perform such actions :)
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13:16<Zuu>I'm surprised though that you already have commited that part.
13:16<TrueBrain>I was annoyed AIs couldn't query the town needs
13:16<TrueBrain>bit silly
13:17<@peter1138>Town Requires: 5 regularly serviced stations and a large bribe
13:18<TrueBrain>and while at that, I could as well update the GUI to represent more internal values :)
13:18<TrueBrain>peter1138: not for arctic towns above the snowline :)
13:21<Zuu>It does makes sense though to get this in already if it is relevant already to reduce the size of your patch-queue.
13:22<TrueBrain>that was a nice extra ;)
13:23<Xaroth>you still have the killer patch :P
13:25<Xaroth>well, the biggest one is quite.. big :P
13:25<TrueBrain>there is another one added
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13:27<Eddi|zuHause>towns should have a "government": industry-friendly, population-friendly or ecology-friendly
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>each with slightly different benefits and penalties
13:28<Xaroth>define benefits and penalties :P
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>type of offered subsidies, opinion penalties for property destruction
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13:32<@Terkhen>NoGo should allow that in a distant future :P
13:32*Terkhen is planning to retake subsidies one of these days
13:32<Xaroth>goodeh :)
13:34<Xaroth>ok.. 3 years ago (game time) i destroyed 12 statues/fountains from my town ... now.. i destroyed another 16
13:34<Xaroth>what's this town's obsession with fountains and statues...
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13:35<LordAro>TrueBrain: (if you haven't seen it already)
13:35<@Terkhen>politicians like to inaugurate stuff
13:36<TrueBrain>LordAro: fanmail, I love fanmail
13:36<@Terkhen>I don't know how it goes in other countries, but here we have public libraries inaugurated without books for example :)
13:36<@Terkhen>I suppose they'll inaugurate it again once it is usable
13:37<@Terkhen>heh, NoGo fanboys already :P
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>town may also have a say in what industries are placed there
13:38<@Terkhen>this time you are keeping the old behavior intact, that way you won't get people complaining because the old, broken stuff was removed :)
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>remove the old broken subsidies! :p
13:40<@Terkhen>oh, I didn't think of that
13:40<@Terkhen>maybe someone will complain after my queue is committed :O
13:40<@Terkhen>"I liked my subsidy window empty of mail subsidies"
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>maybe a goal script should be able to set a flag to disable subsidies (and make up its own ones)
13:42<Xaroth>that'd be cool
13:42<Xaroth>better, company-dependant subsidy offers.
13:43<@Terkhen>my queue will just improve the default behavior :)
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>something completely different: NewGRF action 14: "developer" settings that only appear in the GUI when the flag is set in config
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23308 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: english_US - 8 changes by Rubidium
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: german - 34 changes by NG, planetmaker
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 16 changes by Snail_
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: russian - 5 changes by Lone_Wolf
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: spanish - 7 changes by Terkhen
13:54<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23309 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Fix: loading old games didn't have goals set for towns (tnx to frosch for spotting)
13:55<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23310 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix: Town GUI was not representing the true conditions of arctic / tropical goals
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14:36<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23311 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Remove: removed the silly blitter called 8bpp-debug. You can find him at the same place as you can find CTRL+D. Sorry for those who liked to trip while playing OpenTTD; I truly am sorry :D
14:39<frosch123>the world became sad suddenly
14:39*TrueBrain gives frosch123 a cookie
14:40<frosch123>new we need a new easter egg :p
14:40<TrueBrain>you still havent found the other two?
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>the most important easter egg seems to be "change newgrfs ingame"
14:41<TrueBrain>(I am sure many people in here now are: other 2? There are easter eggs? And go look :D)
14:42<frosch123>luckily only few found the easter egg in 0.6
14:43<frosch123>so we could remove it silently in 0.7.5 when it turned out it was completely septic
14:44<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: easter egg != surprise egg
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14:45<TrueBrain>you make me curious frosch123
14:45<frosch123>TrueBrain: the most serious cve we ever had
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>some (around 2) people got haywire when we removed the "turn around in depot" easter egg
14:46<@Yexo>the rest probably never knew you could do that :p
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: maybe we need a newgrf property to make the bounding box larger?
14:47<frosch123>name it glitch_rate or so
14:47<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: bounding boxes > 8/8 do not work
14:48<TrueBrain>frosch123: that doesnt sound so serious ...
14:48<TrueBrain>I expected something HUGE :P
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i mean not the vehicle length, just the bounding box (for drawing purposes)
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14:48<frosch123>same, if you make the bounding boxes too big, they will cause even worse glitches
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>currently i get glitches when a train goes over foundations, or a slope
14:49<frosch123>yes, but you do not glitches between the bridge and the whole landscape when a train moves below a bridge
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>not sure what you mean
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>the bridge has a bounding box by itself, so i don't see the problem
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not making them 3 tiles wide...
14:51<frosch123>by making vehicle bounding boxes too big, you can add lots of cyclic dependencies
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise i need the ability to make the sprite offsets depend on var62
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. by setting a 0x100+ register in a varaction2
14:53<frosch123>maybe that stuff is so special, that it warrants speical functionality by ottd?
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14:53<frosch123>a flag to draw sprites relative to another vehicle
14:53<Eddi|zuHause>that could be a possibility as well
14:53<andythenorth>my ships glitch :P
14:54<andythenorth>and yours, if you use FISH :P
14:54<frosch123>andythenorth: your ships are just showing. they pretend to be big ships by projecting images on the landscape, while they are way smaller in real
14:54<frosch123>+ off
14:54<Eddi|zuHause>oh: debug feature: single-step through the ticks (my F1 finger is sometimes not fast enough)
14:55<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: add a console command to unpause for x ticks?
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>"unpause" -> "this is only available on a network server"
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>why, actually?
14:56<frosch123>such a command could also be wired to some kind of coin slot :p
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>haha :p
14:56<Eddi|zuHause>like the TT demo: play only 2 years
14:57<@Yexo>if (!_networking) IConsolePrint(CC_DEFAULT, "Game unpaused."); <- code in ConUnpauseGame
14:57<Eddi|zuHause>god i spent so many hours with that :p
14:57<@Yexo>that's even though it can only be run by a server
14:58<Xaroth>bastard town.. i just removed 10 fountain/statues again, and inmediately the town builds 3 more...
14:58<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth: make a newgrf that reduces the chance of fountains/statues to appear
14:59<Xaroth>Eddi|zuHause: cba, too busy fiddling with NoGo :P
14:59<frosch123>Xaroth: s/bastard/hydra/
14:59<Xaroth>frosch123: that too
15:00<andythenorth> much could be scripted?
15:00<andythenorth>what are the practical/performance limits?
15:00<Eddi|zuHause>really... since michi_cc's patch the glitches at least tripled
15:01<frosch123>andythenorth: scripts only run on the server, so it is limited by the amount that can be synced
15:01<Eddi|zuHause>i need some countermeasure for that, it's not (sensibly) possible with the existing abilites
15:01<Xaroth>andythenorth: more and more, but there are performance limits for now..
15:01<frosch123>andythenorth: especially they cannot reply to "test runs" of players
15:01<andythenorth>frosch123: ok, I see there's quite a practical limit in that case
15:01<Xaroth>like, setting goals for 400+ towns takes .. 3 minutes :P
15:02<Xaroth>if not more
15:02<andythenorth>I have a pet project to simplify ottd industry code by booting a lot of stuff about economy somewhere else :P
15:03<andythenorth>like a script that would ship with default game, based on a library other scripts could use
15:03<andythenorth>I once worked out the combination of advanced industry + economy settings I should test FIRS with
15:03<andythenorth>and came up with 'too many' :P
15:05<andythenorth>it sounds like scripts are much too limited to replace the economy + industry placement code though
15:11<Xaroth>SpComb: that's too long, must be 4 letters
15:11<Xaroth>so I'd go for NoCo or NoMy
15:11<Xaroth>NoCo might be a bit close to NoGo ...
15:12<andythenorth>^ the default script is mostly recessions in that one
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>Xaroth: maybe you should assign goals in small steps, the largest towns first, or so?
15:13<andythenorth>isn't snappy
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>mäh... must get up way too early tomorrow...
15:14<andythenorth>what time is that?
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>at least 4 hours before my natural wake-up time
15:18<andythenorth>dictators don't get a lie in
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15:28<andythenorth>o/ Snail_
15:29<Snail_>hi andy
15:29<Snail_>how's it going?
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15:35<z-MaTRiX>she's a maniac maniac on the floor, and she's dancing like she's never danced before
15:36<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23312 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4849]: assertion could be triggered in case a station was removed just after a vehicle delivered cargo to it
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15:38<andythenorth>Snail_: how is the french set coming along?
15:38<__ln__>hi Wolf01
15:39<Snail_>I'm close to releasing a taster...
15:39<Snail_>there are a few glitches I need to sort out before releasing it though
15:39<andythenorth>including NG? :)
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>Snail_: are you using railtype labels for narrow gauge?
15:40<Snail_>well, this is only the NG part at this time
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>Snail_: possibly sync this with oberhümer's attempts then
15:40<Snail_>Eddi|zuHause: yes
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>and put those on the wiki
15:41<Snail_>member:Eddi%7CzuHause: you mean the NuTracks?
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes, so everybody uses the same labels
15:42<andythenorth>like cargos.... :D
15:42<Snail_>I'll see if that can be done... I am using 5 different types of NG tracks
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>Snail_: a list of those would be useful
15:42<andythenorth>maybe railtype labels also need a benevolent dictator...
15:43<Snail_>well, my rails are designed to work with the set I'm creating... they'll eventually be downloadable together with the set
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: after my last discussion with MB, i don't think that'll help anything :p
15:44<andythenorth>just define a convention
15:44<andythenorth>set authors either use it or don't
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>Snail_: yes, but "designed for" is not the same as "can only be used with"
15:44<andythenorth>multiple conventions - causes some splits in the community, but nobody dies
15:44<Snail_>Eddi|zuHause: right, if some other sets want to use my NG rails, they're more than welcome to do so :)
15:44<Snail_>so I might just add my labels to the wiki?
15:46<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you discussed railtypes with MB?
15:49<Snail_>Eddi|ZuHause: do you have the addy of that wiki page by any chance?
15:49<Snail_>I'm looking for it but can't find it on ...
15:51*andythenorth -> pub
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15:52<Snail_>oh, great! thanks
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>you should talk to oberhümer anyway ;)
15:57<@Terkhen>good night
16:00<Snail_>Eddi|zuHause: I can send him a PM. Looks like my tracks are the first NG ones to hit the table anyway?
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>we don't know who else is developing narrow gauge sets in secret :)
16:01<@planetmaker>hasn't pikka drawn (and released) some?
16:01<@planetmaker>or is that still old-style?
16:01<Snail_>well, there was mart3p... I got his permission to edit his work... so I took it as a base for mine
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>hasn't pikka done "finescale" rails? i.e. standard gauge that is just drawn narrower?
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16:04<Snail_>hi james
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16:05<@peter1138>it's in the uk railway set tracks
16:09<@peter1138>bah, i keep building road/rail routes as if i've got cargo destinations :(
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>i know that problem :p
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16:23<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23313 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: economy.fund_buildings was not shown in the GUI
16:29<Zuu>In rexep (python), how can I use parenthesis in a substitution to only substitute part of the match pattern while still specifying boundary limitations?
16:29<Zuu>Eg. I want to match \.AI_[A-Z0-9], but only replace "AI".
16:32<SpComb>either a look-ahead, or capture and "substitute" the bit you want to keep
16:34<Zuu>Oh, I think I got it, I need to make a group not (only) for what I want to replace, but actually, for what I want to keep.
16:34<Zuu>line = "aAIbc = AITown.AI_CITY;";
16:34<Zuu>line = RegExReplace("(\\.)AI(_[A-Z0-9])", "\\1GOAL\\2", line)
16:34<SpComb>but it's probably easier to just do re.sub(r"\.AI_([A-Z0-9])", r".XXX_\1")
16:35<SpComb>sounds like some terrible refactoring :)
16:36<Zuu>RegExReplace is a two line function that is basically calling p = re.compile and then p.sub.
16:36<SpComb>why not just re.sub?
16:37<Zuu>no idea, but the docs seem to prefer compiling it manually.
16:37<SpComb>no point if you just compile for each call anyways
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16:40<Zuu>Do you know why if the < symbol that matches word beginning is not supported in Python? (I couldn't get it to work with or without escaping)
16:42<valhallasw>it matches word beginning /in which regex dialect/?
16:43<Zuu>it does in vim
16:43<Zuu>Depending on your vim settings you might need to put a \ infront of it.
16:44<valhallasw>"Vim's regular expression dialect is distinct from many of the other more popular ones out there today (and actually predates them)." (according to the first google hit I get for vim regex dialect)
16:44<valhallasw>but you can probably use \b?
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16:45<Zuu>Will \b work even if there is no space in between, eg when there is a bracket? I guess so. I remember reading that it defines words as \w or \W which probably doesn't include brackets etc.
16:46<valhallasw>\b is every boundary between 'word character' to 'non-word character'
16:46<valhallasw>[a-zA-Z0-9_] in ASCII
16:46<valhallasw>not sure what it is for unicode-able regexps
16:47<Zuu>Is line beginning/end a 'non-'word character' in this case? - I guess I should just try it out :-)
16:47<valhallasw> is actually quite a good site as reference
16:47<valhallasw>even though the .info tld suggests otherwise
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16:55<frosch123>Zuu: yes, \b matches at beginning and end
16:55<frosch123>i.e. also ^\w and \w$
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16:57<Zuu>So it is basically the same as < and > except that it is not directional, but it still matches the location between two characters so you do not need to put anytihng back in the result again.
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16:59<valhallasw>Zuu: yes, but you don't need directionality
16:59<valhallasw>using 'beginning of word' and then asking for a 'non-word-character' doesn't make sense ;-)
16:59<Zuu>Oh, right, \b is _beginning_ of word, so it is indeed directional.
17:00<valhallasw>no, it's not
17:00<valhallasw>however, \b[a-z] always matches the beginning of a word
17:00<valhallasw>and [a-z]\b the end
17:01<valhallasw>with < and >, you can make non-sensible stuff
17:01<valhallasw>such as \>[a-z]
17:01<valhallasw>'match end of word, followed by a character from a-z'
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17:10<frosch123>valhallasw: [a-z]\b[a-z] :p
17:11<valhallasw>frosch123: agreed, that doesn't make sense either
17:11<valhallasw>however, my point was you don't lose any flexibility by joining \< and \> into \b
17:12<Zuu>Hmm, my first attempt to use SuperLib in NoGo resulted in a OpenTTD crash (after removing the parts of SuperLib that depend on other libraries)
17:12<Zuu>Lets dig up the debugger and see what happened :-)
17:15<frosch123>valhallasw: s/\</prefix_/ becomes harder to write
17:16<TrueBrain>crash? Interesting ...
17:16<TrueBrain>lemme know what you find out
17:16<TrueBrain>crashing should never happen by scripts :)
17:17<Zuu>I tried to pull, but it appears that you haven't commited any changes since the last CF build.
17:17<TrueBrain>nope, I did not
17:17<TrueBrain>that is, I made enough changes, just nothing new pushed :)
17:19<Zuu>It is probably this code: GoalController.GetSetting("debug_signs")
17:20<Zuu>At least that is what appears to be the squirrel call when debugger kicks in.
17:21<Zuu>It causes AIConfig::GetSetting to be called.
17:21<Zuu>script_controller.cpp, line 80 calls it.
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17:23<TrueBrain>ah, yes, GetSetting is not yet supported for NoGo
17:23<Zuu>The actual problem seem to be that it tries to get the AIConfig of company 66.
17:23<TrueBrain>one of the small parts that is not done
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17:23<valhallasw>frosch123: agreed. a very... limited use case, but nonetheless, a valid one
17:24<TrueBrain>Zuu: well, no, it should never try to call AIConfig for a GoalScript :D
17:24<Zuu>I maybe should have known, but now I just randomly called a SuperLib function that just had "AI" replaced by Goal or GOAL. :-)
17:24<TrueBrain>AIConfig stuff is still wired up wrong; I have to rewire it, but it is tricky :)
17:25<Zuu>Indeed, the times when I've digged in that code it has been a lot of stuff to keep track of.
17:26<Zuu>Both the AIConfig and AIController and friends are quite tricky. :-)
17:26<TrueBrain>yup; took me a long time to separate them correctly
17:27<TrueBrain>and except for AIConfig (AIStorage, AIInfo and some other AI) I managed :)
17:27<TrueBrain>you will like this patch Zuu:
17:27<TrueBrain>will push it to the CF etc now
17:27<Zuu>I have to say that I'm impressed by your work.
17:28<TrueBrain>90% of the work is just refactoring
17:28<TrueBrain>the NoGo itself is very small
17:28<TrueBrain>but tnx :D
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17:29<Zuu>That patch looks nice :-)
17:30<TrueBrain>CF is compiling it now; should be done in like 20
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17:53<TrueBrain>Zuu: new NoGo is compiled, if you like :) Contains events ;)
17:56<Zuu>Okay. Actually the code that I last posted on forums is ready to use the events already. :-)
17:56<TrueBrain>so you said ;)
17:57<Zuu>Now, I added a thing to my NoGo "compiler" that replaces all setting lookup calls with a zero. :-)
17:58<@planetmaker>so, I update the server for you, Zuu? :-)
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17:58<Zuu>At least all that follow my coding style.
17:58<Zuu>planetmaker: It seems noone is playing there now.
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17:58<@planetmaker>well. No reason to not update to the new version
17:58<Zuu>I don't know if that game is done or if anyone wants to continue it.
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18:00<@planetmaker>well. I can leave it running. But with a restart then the new version will become active. Feel free to re-start if / when you have a script :-)
18:00<@planetmaker>update done
18:01<@planetmaker>will be active after a !restart
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18:06<Xaroth>updated nogo1 .. new map tho as the save seems broken o_O
18:06<TrueBrain>yes, savegames are broken :)
18:07<__ln__>how do i get page numbers of table of contents vertically aligned in MS Word 2010, rather than having a kind of inverse indentation for subsection entries?
18:07<@planetmaker>__ln__: use latex and make a screenshot ;-)
18:08<__ln__>the perfect solution
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18:18<TrueBrain>Zuu: might be helpful to you :D
18:21<Zuu>TrueBrain: Thanks indeed
18:30<Xaroth>Zuu: in your town nut, why loop to pop all neighbours over 3, instead of creating a new list and adding the first (up-to-3) from the old list?
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18:44<Zuu>Xaroth: it was just how I made it. Probably because it requires one list less. That said, I see that if the list is long, your method is probably faster.
18:45<Zuu>In overall the implementation was not focused on execution speed, but to try things out.
18:52*Xaroth nods
18:52<Xaroth>so no specific reasoning, right
18:53<Xaroth>and you mentioned something about a compiler? :o
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18:56<Zuu>yep, it is not really a compiler
18:56<Zuu>It is more a pharser
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>a phasor?
18:56<TrueBrain>*pew pew*
18:56<TrueBrain>(what sound does a starwars thingy make?)
18:57<Zuu>Its a python script that converts my SuperLib directory from being targeted at AIs to being usable for NoGo.
18:57<Zuu>The result can then be droped in a NoGo-script directory and included by: require("NoGoSuperLib/main.nut")
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>you mean a 's/AI/GOAL/g'?
18:58<TrueBrain>not GOAL
18:58<Zuu>Depends on context
18:58<TrueBrain>Goal doesn't stand for anything ;)
18:58<Zuu>For constants Eddi|zuHause is right
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it should :)
18:58<TrueBrain>I also just mentioned I don't like the name :P Game Script sounds so much better :)
18:59<TrueBrain>(mentioned in other channel)
18:59<Zuu>oh, _that_ channel :-)
19:00<TrueBrain>seriously considering renaming ....... must ... resist .....
19:00<Zuu>But indeed, "Goal" is a bit silly if it grows out of just being about goals.
19:00<Zuu>Now is the right moment to make changes while there is only a few scripts done.
19:00<TrueBrain>from the ideas and suggestions I got so far, it will control the game, not set goals :P
19:01<TrueBrain>(Tutorial for example :P)
19:02<TrueBrain>and as name: NoGame
19:02<TrueBrain>AI & Goal Scripts .. AI & Game Scripts ..
19:03<Zuu>Another thing my parser/script is doing is to exclude sub libraries that are not suitable for NoGo. Otherwise it would need to inline the road path finder as well.
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20:29<Eddi|zuHause>bäääh... i think we need to revoke oberhümers commit rights...
20:29<@peter1138>6uh oh
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20:30<Eddi|zuHause>11 commits, most of them garbage...
20:32<z-MaTRiX>whats up?
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20:33<Eddi|zuHause> <--- seriously, wtf??
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---Logclosed Thu Nov 24 00:00:24 2011