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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-05

---Logopened Mon Dec 05 00:00:41 2011
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01:14<Rubidium>moin planetmaker
01:22<Prof_Frink>Monday rears its ugly head once more
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01:59<Lachie>planetmaker: what up?
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02:18<@planetmaker>usually the direction anti-parallel to the gravitational vector
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02:23<Lachie>it is said.
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02:30<SpComb>today is a silly monday that doesn't actually exist
02:30<V453000>oh great I am not going anywhere nor going to do any work then :D
02:30<SpComb>because tomorrow is a national holiday and yesterday was sunday
02:31<V453000>hm I cant seem to replicate the bug Nite_Owl talked about at 04:27 CET :z
02:47<@peter1138>the joy of "easily reproducible" bugs
02:56<@planetmaker>NiteOwl's one?
02:56<Xaroth>want a copy/paste?
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02:59<@planetmaker>I'd like a bug report with a step-by-step on how to reproduce with a crash log, Xaroth
03:02<Xaroth>planetmaker: wait what?
03:02<Xaroth>I'm not going to figure that all out
03:03<Xaroth>i got a LoL game to play! :P
03:03<@planetmaker>I can read the irc fine. But it's 100% pointless without more info or a crash log
03:03<@planetmaker>could as well not have been written
03:04*Xaroth shrugs
03:04<@planetmaker>if one cannot reproduce it
03:04<@planetmaker>which I can't either
03:08<V453000>I was actually scrolling through train lists all evening yesterday and I did not encounter any "serious game crashing flaw" as he refered to
03:19<appe>does ttd always create a crash log?
03:19<appe>or is that a feature
03:23<@planetmaker>ttd has no such feature
03:28<appe>and where do you mean this should come from?
03:28<Lachie>ttdp does?
03:30<@Yexo>appe: ttd usually refers to "transport tycoon deluxe", not to OpenTTD
03:31<@planetmaker>openttd usually does when it crashes
03:31<appe>i was refering to ottd. :)
03:33<@planetmaker>you should say what you mean otherwise you'll never mean what you say ;-)
03:35<@planetmaker>Lachie: ttdp iirc has also some sort of crash log
03:48<Lachie>that was more of a rhetorical question mark
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04:02<Eddi|zuHause>why is there always a cat sleeping wherever i want to sit down?
04:02<@peter1138>because you haven't got rid of it yet
04:04<@peter1138>hmm, back in the office after 2 weeks off
04:04<@peter1138>no-one else in :p
04:04<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: "Hunde haben Herrchen, Katzen haben Personal" ;-)
04:08<Celestar>Eddi|zuHause: how many cats you got?
04:20*Celestar likes cats
04:24<Lachie>I love cats. When we get a place that allows pets myself and the girlfriend are going to buy one
04:26<Eddi|zuHause>where do you find places that don't allow pets?
04:26<@peter1138>rental properties
04:26<@peter1138>most don't
04:27*Eddi|zuHause never heard about that
04:28<@planetmaker>in Germany you cannot disallow a cat iirc
04:29<@planetmaker>though you can disallow a dog
04:29<Lachie>wish we had German rental laws then.
04:29<@planetmaker>but as usual: ianal
04:30<Lachie>but the whole layout of the place isn't particularly pet-friendly regardless
04:31<@peter1138>telnet to imap server:
04:31<@peter1138>* BYE Connection refused
04:32<@peter1138>well no, you accepted the connection, then closed it...
04:34<Lachie>alright, ECS, FIRS, what's more popular with the kids these days?
04:35<@peter1138>PBI :DF
04:36<Lachie>that's what I use still, but I understand people like having a ridiculous amount of cargos
04:38<@peter1138>32 isn't enough!
04:38<Celestar>plain basic industries?
04:38<Lachie>Pikka's Base Industries?
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04:45<Lachie>Could ofcourse just pick the 32 cargoes I feel would be most useful in the Australian climate and define them first
04:47<@peter1138>passengers, mail, lager, lager, lager, lager, lager, bruce
04:48<@peter1138>Lachie, define them first? are you talking refit masks?
04:49<Sacro>some of them sheilas?
04:49<Sacro>peter1138: what happened to pikka's industries :(
04:49<Lachie>and we like a good Draught too
04:50<@peter1138>they still work?
04:50<@peter1138>you can have 255 labels, iirc
04:51<Eddi|zuHause>Lachie: if you restrict your GRF to OpenTTD 1.2 (nightly and above) then there's no need to stick to 32 cargos
04:51<Lachie>considering the time it's going to take to bring the NSW Set back up to release standard, that's not a bad idea.
04:51<Eddi|zuHause>below that, it's only the refit mask that has that limit
04:52<Lachie>it may well be OTTD 4.7 by the time I actually get this released
04:53<@peter1138>i remember seeing the landscape several years ago
04:53<Lachie>yeah, that's still kicking around.
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04:54<@peter1138>it should be released :S
04:54<@peter1138>and stuck on bananas
04:54<Lachie>the problem with the landscape is that the graphics aren't actually complete.
04:56<Lachie>and while I don't mind my skill at recolouring train sprites and doing the odd original bit, drawing landscape tiles is beyond my skills and, to be completely honest tedious as fuck
05:07<@planetmaker>which landscape? The australian?
05:10<@planetmaker> <-- I implemented that once as a NewGRF as part of OpenGFX+ Landscape
05:10<@planetmaker>But I may only use that on the condition that I write a completely separate NewGRF. Well. That's not going to happen
05:12<@peter1138>strange license terms?
05:12<@planetmaker>the graphics have no license
05:12<@planetmaker>and I asked the artist and concurrently implemented it
05:13<@planetmaker>and was done when I received that reply ;-)
05:13<@planetmaker>The graphics have been laying around for 5 years. I now know why
05:14<@planetmaker>it would be released by now as savannah 'climate', if I'd had been given a 'sure, please do'
05:14<@peter1138>what was the exact response? heh
05:15<Lachie>this is an interesting development.
05:16<Lachie>yeah, those graphics come under my managerial wing
05:16<Lachie>never knew you wanted them though
05:17<Lachie>but yeah, the only reason they weren't released years ago is because they aren't strictly complete
05:17<@planetmaker>^ peter1138
05:18<Lachie>they're also meant to be temperate graphics :P
05:18<@planetmaker>Lachie: complete or not. I'd have done all necessary work myself to make it a complete landscape set
05:18<@planetmaker>I actually had done that, it just would need a few more exports from the graphics file
05:19<@planetmaker>no further coding work except a bit copy&paste required. Everything already templated
05:19<Lachie>indeed. well, a complete release isn't that far away, so rejoice.
05:19<Lachie>the whole thing's coded on my end, just needed a few extra pieces
05:20<@planetmaker>well. IMHO it doesn't make the response better ;-)
05:20<@peter1138>how is it tied into opengf?
05:20<@planetmaker>by the name of the landscape newgrf
05:21<@planetmaker>which will give you wanter in opengfx style then
05:21<Lachie>I understand where he's coming from though. I really hope I'm not creating animosity, I appreciate OpenGFX and how it's improved OTTD
05:21<@planetmaker>and actually roads and rails, too
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05:21<Lachie>but it's always been, from an end user point of view, as something made by faceless people. coalroads has done a beautiful job on the graphics and he deserves full credit for it.
05:22<@planetmaker>Lachie: the preference of whatever base set doesn't lend this response good reason.
05:22<@planetmaker>Anyone is free to take my code, and modify it and attach additional / other sprites
05:22<@planetmaker>little work to do.
05:22<@planetmaker>But it's arrogant to assume I'll do that work, too
05:23<@planetmaker>"faceless people"?
05:23<@planetmaker>you think credits are not given?
05:23<Lachie>put it this way. I don't know anyone who's worked on the OpenGFX. I assume from this discussion that you have, but I never knew before this instance.
05:24<Eddi|zuHause>i agree, putting an "opengfx" label on your grf makes it very unpersonal
05:25<@planetmaker>And how could that be changed?
05:25<@planetmaker>why does it make it unpersonal?
05:25<@planetmaker>honest question
05:26<@planetmaker>of course, no single NewGRF covers what OpenGFX covers. Has to cover
05:26<V453000>if you have a newgrf with only 1 name under it, it is more obvious who did what I guess
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>if you say "alpine climate" you have an immediate association "by MB"
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>if you say "opengfx landscape" there is nothing
05:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's an anonymous mass
05:26<@peter1138>+ SetRoadType(t, ROADTYPESTORE_SECOND, rt2);
05:26<@peter1138>i guess this is my roadtypes code...
05:27<Lachie>honest answer. It just seems like each GFX is just another opengfx set
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: is that an "oh, i found what i was searching for 2 weeks ago" :p
05:27<@peter1138>no, not really
05:27<@peter1138>although it is in a dir called "trunk"
05:27<Eddi|zuHause>it's not like that ever meant anything :p
05:28<Lachie>my wording's poor at this time of the night. Spend all day creating english and now I have no capability to write anything resembling sense.
05:29<@peter1138>hmm, and my attempt at delaunay/voronoi
05:29<@planetmaker>well. But sounds like I just should scrap OpenGFX*. And leave ;-)
05:29<Lachie>what I mean is, there's a certain... anonymity about anything under the guise of OpenGFX
05:29<@planetmaker>Not appreciated. Anonymous. Pointless
05:29<@planetmaker>And considered bad. Not worth to contribute
05:29<Lachie>you completely disregarded the very first thing I said befoer I started talking about this.
05:29<@planetmaker>That's the attitude communicated. Frequently
05:30<@peter1138>opengfx is kinda anonymous
05:30<@peter1138>i don't think that's anything bad though
05:30<Eddi|zuHause>nobody said that it's bad
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>but i mean that i understand why some artists don't want to throw their stuff in there
05:31<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, it can easily be taken as implied
05:31<@peter1138>personally i prefer the original graphics, but i think opengfx is fantastic too
05:32<@peter1138>part of that is no doubt a "what i'm used to" thing too
05:32<Lachie>at first I preferred the original graphics but now I use OpenGFX. I prefer it now.
05:32<Lachie>indeed, it's a bit of a change.
05:33<@peter1138>now that we had a text viewer, who wants to implement support for hyperlinks? :D
05:35<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: implement a html browser :)
05:36<@peter1138>someone™ should™!
05:37<appe>that reminds me
05:38<@Yexo> <- very much unfinished
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06:02<Lachie>I'm a tiny bit turned around by the syntax in an NML cargo table. The idea I'm getting is that it goes (eg) like PASS [, COAL [, MAIL [, etc etc etc?
06:02<@Yexo>cargotable { PASS, COAL, MAIL }
06:02<@Yexo>[] is used in the documentation to indicate that part is optional
06:02<Eddi|zuHause>[] in the syntax means "this part can be left out"
06:03<Lachie>ah. that would explain why it made no sense to me. cheers. :)
06:06<@planetmaker>Yexo: the line in must read [ [ NSWorkspace sharedWorkspace ] openURL:[ NSURL URLWithString:[ NSString stringWithUTF8String:url ] ] ];
06:07<@Yexo>ok, that was pretty much a guess based on a simple search
06:07<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea how to read objective c
06:09<@planetmaker>[ NSxxx blah:blub ] is the same as NSxxx::blah(blub)
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06:29<@planetmaker>in any case, the patch to view the website before download works well for me, Yexo ;-)
06:30<@planetmaker>it even opens the page as I would want in a tab, thus obeys my browser's default settings well
06:30<@Yexo>there is no code yet for linux, and that is the hardest case I think
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06:31<@planetmaker>would still help 85% of the players ;-)
06:31<@peter1138>what's that for kde/etc ?
06:32<@peter1138>if DESKTOP_SESSION == "gnome" then gnome-open url
06:32<@peter1138>if DESKTOP_SESSION == "kde" then do kde's thing
06:32<@peter1138>else ... erm... something else? heh
06:33<@Yexo>xdg-open, gvfs-open
06:33<@peter1138>oh, xdg-open's a good choice
06:33<@peter1138>should be fairly standard these days
06:33<@Yexo>kfmclient exec <url> <- I think that for kde
06:33<@planetmaker>I have no such variable here, peter1138
06:33<@peter1138>planetmaker, what OS?
06:34<@planetmaker>suse linux
06:34<@peter1138>what DE?
06:34<@Yexo>planetmaker: do you have either GNOME_DESKTOP_SESSION_ID or KDE_FULL_SESSION?
06:34<@peter1138>do you have xdg-open?
06:35<@Yexo>oh, there is also "sensible-browser" and "x-www-browser" to chose from
06:35<@planetmaker>KDE_BUILD_GLOBAL_SYCOCA, KDE_USE_IPV6 and KDE_USE_IDN... nothing else related to my DE
06:35<@peter1138>they're debian things
06:35<@peter1138>planetmaker, that's silly :)
06:35<@planetmaker>I have a WINDOWMANAGER variable
06:35<@peter1138>planetmaker, no xdg-open?
06:35<@planetmaker>I do have that, yes
06:36<@peter1138>okay good
06:36<@peter1138>i vote for just using that
06:36<@planetmaker>indeed, looks like that's tailored for exactly that purpose
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 500/26
06:37<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 19.2307692308
06:37<Eddi|zuHause>@calc (500/26-19)*26
06:37<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 6.0
06:37<@peter1138>oh good QC's updated now
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06:38<@peter1138>it is the truest of the brainy ones
06:39<TrueBrain>who? where? what? when? why?
06:39<@planetmaker>questionable content
06:42<@peter1138>planetmaker, your landscape has dots on it?
06:42<@planetmaker>in that screenshot: yes
06:42<@peter1138>what are they?
06:42<@planetmaker>missing grid sprites
06:43<@planetmaker>thus the transparent ? icon
06:43<@planetmaker>cba to compile that just for the test
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06:56<Eddi|zuHause>it always strikes me as odd every year that the dutch celebrate "nikolaus" one day early
06:59<@peter1138>they're dutch, say no more
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07:29<@peter1138>good news: roadtypes is too far gone, it needs to be rewritten
07:29<Nite_Owl>Any Development Team Members around ?
07:29<Nite_Owl>Oh good...
07:29<andythenorth>peter1138: watertypes
07:30<@peter1138>we have them
07:30<Nite_Owl>Are you aware of the fatal flaw in yesterday's compiled nightly ?
07:31<@peter1138>you need to post your crash files
07:32<@planetmaker>Nite_Owl, always make a bug report about such things
07:32<andythenorth>we need fast flowing or slow flowing rivers :P
07:32<Nite_Owl>Will do
07:32<andythenorth>we actually found a valid case for watertypes
07:32<andythenorth>but I forgot it
07:33<@peter1138>oh, water classes are full
07:33<@planetmaker>and tell us how we can reproduce your crash as part of the report
07:34<Nite_Owl>Will do again
07:35<@peter1138>you didn't the first time :)
07:36<@planetmaker>Nite_Owl, your description as on IRC didn't allow anyone to reproduce it
07:37<@planetmaker>thus be more specific
07:40<@peter1138>signals are obvious at 2x :)
07:40<Nite_Owl>"Open the "available trains" drop down and as you click down the list, at some point, the game will crash." Sorry I left something out - Set the year to 2050 so that the drop down list is very long. As you click on trains near the bottom of the list you get the crash.
07:40<Nite_Owl>I will try and reproduce it again - give me a few minutes
07:41<andythenorth>ship canals + non-ship canals
07:41<andythenorth>maybe that was it
07:41<@peter1138>nope, no crash here
07:41<andythenorth>and also let logs go down rapids
07:42<Nite_Owl>I just got it to crash again - will post the files
07:44<Nite_Owl>Dang it - the full screen shrank and it will not let me out of the crash to create the files
07:47<@planetmaker>if the list is very long, you're most likely also using a particular NewGRF. Important info which also is contained in the crash files
07:47<Nite_Owl>I cannot get out to generate the crash files
07:48<@peter1138>openttd generates them itself
07:48<@planetmaker>should do so yes.
07:49<@planetmaker>Only in rare cases when the crash handler also crashes
07:50<@planetmaker>you should find them near your openttd.cfg
07:50<Nite_Owl>Error - assertion fail - clicking on 'OK' or the red X will not close it - if I do it another way the files will not be generated
07:51<@planetmaker>an assertion fail is always more verbose already as it says where it fails
07:51<@planetmaker>if you can't get the crash files: take your savegame and give detailed instructions how we crash that savegame
07:53<Nite_Owl>Assertion failed at line 1686 of... \src\window.cpp: w->nested_root->resize_y==0 || new_yinc % w->nested_root->resize_y ==0
07:54<Nite_Owl>No save game - brand new game just started to test the crash which is the same circumstance that it occurred originally
07:54<@Yexo>are you using a custom font?
07:54<Nite_Owl>Arial Bold
07:55<@Yexo>which size?
07:55<Nite_Owl>small_size = 10 medium_size = 12 large_size = 14
07:57<Nite_Owl>I closed it in Task Manager and got the crash files. Do you still want me to post them?
07:58<Nite_Owl>Will do
08:15<Nite_Owl>Bug report done.
08:16<Nite_Owl>Let me know if you need more information. I tried to get in everything I could think of that was relevant.
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08:18<@peter1138>i would guess r23429
08:18<@peter1138>but hey
08:23<Nite_Owl>Clicking on a train would move a window beyond the main window boundaries? Could be tied into the code somehow I guess.
08:23*Nite_Owl knows very little about coding
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09:15<@peter1138>that's why it's better to just post the report instead of speculate ;)
09:19<Nite_Owl>True - I had hoped it would be something obvious though...
09:24<@Belugas>hello all
09:25<Nite_Owl>Hello Belugas
09:27<@Belugas>hello Nite_Owl. been a while i've noticed you :)
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>that must be because of the time shift :p
09:28<Nite_Owl>Life has been taking up a lot of my time lately. It will be calling me in about half an hour.
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>like Rubidium and Celestar_ don't live in the same time zone either :)
09:29<@planetmaker>hello Belugas
09:29<@planetmaker>Nite_Owl, as long as _life_ is calling you, you should be fine ;-)
09:29<@planetmaker>I'll only worry, if it's not life :-P
09:33-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.4 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only
09:40<TGYoshi>Triangles are so awful :)
09:40<TGYoshi>if life was cubic..
09:41<@planetmaker>you mean voxels, peter1138
09:48<TGYoshi>You guys probably know this... ln²x = ln(x)² or ln(x²)
09:48<TrueBrain>dont' talk about voxels :'(
09:48<TGYoshi>Instant confusion
09:48<TrueBrain>it depresses me
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10:00<Nite_Owl>Time to fly - later all.
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10:10<@Belugas>salut planetmaker :) Sorry, i've been caugh in an unexpected meeting
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11:07*peter1138 ponders ez sprites
11:07<@peter1138>and what to do with the simple blitters...
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11:08*planetmaker gives peter1138 an EZ sprite. And a cookie
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11:33<Rubidium>peter1138: why would ez sprites influence the blitters? Shouldn't it all be done in the loader?
11:34<@peter1138>if we add support for supplying different zoom levels, it matters a lot
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11:34<Rubidium>but they currently already zoom in and out, right? So it's just zooming a different amount, or am I missing some very important point?
11:35<@peter1138>-simple blitters don't, they zoom out when they draw
11:37<@peter1138>well, could be adjust i suppose
11:38<Rubidium>trashing the sprite cache would probably be bad when zooming in/out, right?
11:38<@peter1138>probably :)
11:38<@peter1138>and viewports...
11:39<Rubidium>then I'd go for using the most zoomed in sprite and scaling that for the simple blitter, and some lines of documentation and maybe removal of the simple blitters when not a DEBUG build
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12:23<grondo>im new in this game
12:23<@planetmaker>then have fun exploring it ;-)
12:23<grondo>how i do to leave if i play online?
12:24<@planetmaker>the same way as in single player
12:24<@planetmaker>ctrl+w or 'leave game' from the main menu (disk icon)
12:24<grondo>oh thanks!
12:24<@planetmaker>or ctrl+q to quit completely
12:25<grondo>are somewone from sweaden here?
12:25<@planetmaker>English only :-P
12:25<grondo>oh sorry!
12:26<Arkabzol>I'm so-so about speaking other languages in crowds.
12:26<Arkabzol>Even if there wasn't a rule about that.
12:26<grondo>im not good to speak english here
12:27<@planetmaker>^ has some nice tutorial for the first steps, IMHO
12:27<grondo>oh thanks!
12:27<@planetmaker>we're working on an ingame tutorial :D
12:28<@Belugas>i speak english not good too. but I do practice. and hey.. man... after a while, i'm almost like a native speaker! Guess they are right when they say practice makes perfect!
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12:28<grondo>maybye a swedish chat!
12:28<@planetmaker>hehe, Belugas :-)
12:29<@Belugas>sounds like an add ;)
12:29<grondo>im gonna play minecraft now bye!
12:29<Arkabzol>OpenTTD clone in Minecraft. Now I'm getting bad ideas.
12:30<@Belugas>Why clone it? Use minecraft!
12:30<Arkabzol>I meant like
12:30<Arkabzol>OpenTTD like it is... but in Minecraft.
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12:47<grondo>hi im back!
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12:57<@Belugas>I wonder if it would possible to ask the guys of Minecraft to do it like OpenTTD...
12:58<@planetmaker>which would be...?
12:58<Kogut>please, define "guys of Minecraft" and "it"
12:59<appe>i guess he is refering to ..trains
12:59<TrueBrain>I think he listens to too much Bloodhungang
13:04<Kogut>@Yexo "dbg:[misc][squirrel] Failed to compile '...\info.nut'" Is it possible to receive info what is wrong?
13:04<Kogut>I enabled ai tools
13:07<+glx>check ai debug window
13:08<Kogut>unfortunately, it is impossible to run ai as it is not recognised by openttd
13:08<Kogut>as ai
13:10<+glx>anyway info.nut is very basic, it's hard to fail to write it ;)
13:11<Kogut>it worked before
13:11<TrueBrain>Kogut: check for missng ;
13:11<TrueBrain>wrong }
13:11<TrueBrain>stuff like that
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13:16<@Yexo>Kogut: the failure reason should be in the same console window as that line
13:17<+glx>and before that line if I read the source correctly
13:19<Kogut>it is appearing in stable (1.1.4, but not in trunk 23432)
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13:19<loss>how do you play transport tycoon?
13:19<@Yexo>it works for me
13:20<@Yexo> <- Kogut see changes since trunk there
13:20<@Yexo>perhaps you're using AICONFIG_DEVELOPER instead of CONFIG_DEVELOPER?
13:20<@Yexo>that was recently changed in trunk
13:21<loss>i mean where to download the full game, i don't get how you download it lol
13:21<@Yexo>loss: which os are you using?
13:21<@Yexo>operating system, probably windows
13:22<loss>windows 7
13:22<@Yexo>download the installer and run it
13:22<@Yexo>don't forget to enable the "download opengfx / opensfx" during installation
13:22<loss>ah thanks mate.
13:23<Kogut>@Yexo - I fixed this problem (CONFIG_DEVELOPER), but in trunk it still silently failes and in 1.1.4 it complains about undefined properties
13:24<@Yexo>can you upload it somewhere?
13:24<TrueBrain>that switch is trunk only, is it not?
13:24<TrueBrain>1.2, not 1.1
13:24<@Yexo>CONFIG_DEVELOPER is not valid in 1.1.4 btw
13:24<loss>yexo how come you have a yellow star next to your name :o?
13:25<@Yexo>loss: become I'm marked as "operator" for this irc channel I guess, it depends on your client how it shows that
13:27<Kogut>@Yexo - info.nut failed due to lack of medium_value = something, what was permitted in earlier version
13:27<@Yexo>can you provide an info.nut that works in 1.1 but not in trunk?
13:28<Kogut>but still there is something strange as I receive console window, what is broken in the trunk
13:30<@Yexo> <- according to the documentation "medium_value" was already required in 1.1.3
13:32<Kogut>On windows 7
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13:32<Kogut>I created folder named "bug" in ai folder, with empty file info.nut inside
13:32<__ln_____>ciao a tutti
13:32<Kogut>started openttd, recent trunk (23432) - without console
13:33<Kogut>started openttd, recent stable (1.1.4) - console appeared
13:33<@Yexo>do you start the stable 1.1.4 through a link?
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13:33<@Yexo>if you start it with "openttd.exe -d" a console will appear
13:34<+glx>debug build have console without -d
13:34<Kogut>"do you start the stable 1.1.4 through a link?" - no, but I opened trunk through shortcut
13:34<@Yexo>is your 1.1.4 build a debug build?
13:34<Kogut>running exe results in openttd starting with a console
13:35<+glx>then your shortcut adds the -d
13:35<Kogut><s>running exe results in openttd starting with a console</s>
13:36<Kogut>still, running openttd with a broken info.nut: 1.1.4 results in game window+console window, trunk - only console window
13:36<loss>where the graphics options?
13:37<@Yexo>loss: what "graphic options" are you refering to?
13:37<+glx>Kogut: you compiled 1.1.4 yourself ?
13:37<+glx>32 or 64 ?
13:38<loss>full screen, resolution etc
13:38<Kogut>I will try with fresh openttd
13:38<@planetmaker>loss: in the game options
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13:39<@planetmaker>has our wiki been recommended to you? ;-)
13:39<@Yexo>Kogut: just downloaded the 32bit 1.1.4 from openttd,org, added an ai "bug" with empty info.nut, but no console opens
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13:40<Kogut>well, I will try with a fresh openttd
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13:42<LordAro>is it me, or is tt-f not working as it should?
13:42<Rubidium>LordAro: what, isn't it snowing?
13:43<LordAro>hmm. my internet as a whole seems to have stopped working
13:43<LordAro>...but not this :L
13:43<Rubidium>broken DNS resolution?
13:43<LordAro>wouldn't know what that means :P
13:44<LordAro>but ping is returning 'unknown host'
13:44<Rubidium>DNS resolution = resolving the address you typed to an IP address
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13:44<Rubidium>LordAro: ping works, right?
13:45<Rubidium>but ping fails (as it can't resolve that address to
13:45<LordAro>it would seem so
13:46<Rubidium>LordAro: ;)
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23437 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: belarusian - 27 changes by Wowanxm
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: dutch - 25 changes by habell
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 25 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: korean - 24 changes by junho2813
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13:49<LordAro_>thats better
13:49<loss>this game hard :o
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13:49<Kogut>@Devs - what happened with location of openttd files? it was in C:\Users\username\documents\openttd (and still should be, according to readme.txt)
13:50<LordAro>loss: no, just more complicated thatyour average fps ;)
13:50<Kogut>@loss - try loooooooong, unrealistic train line hauling coal
13:50<Kogut>or oil
13:51<MNIM>train lines hauling coal can be really long.
13:51<@planetmaker>loss: hard? Most people complain after a few games about too much money too easily ;-)
13:51<@planetmaker>ho, that even exists as guide on the wiki. nice
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13:52<loss>its hard to get use to it all :P
13:52<Kogut>What happened with location of downloaded newgrfs? it was in C:\Users\username\documents\openttd (and still should be, according to readme.txt) [windows 7]
13:53<Rubidium>Kogut: nothing happened to that. Though... the readme defines quite a few extra locations
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13:53<Rubidium>it primarily depends on the location of the config file
13:53<Kogut>well, it is getting ridiculous. I found it
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13:59<Kogut>it is getting funnier and funnier. In fresh install of 1.1.4 broken info.nut is completely ignored
13:59<@Yexo>that is exactly as it should be
14:00<@Yexo>that is, if you force a console window it should show in there
14:00<Kogut>even in ~ console, even with ai_developer_tools setting
14:00<@Yexo>ai_developer_tools is completely irrelevant
14:01<@Yexo>the openttd-internal console is not the right one
14:02<Kogut>what is quite confusing. During making of my first AI my battle with info.nut was victorious but way too long
14:02<@Yexo>hmm, something does seem to be wrong
14:02<Kogut>mainly due to "and now info.nut compilations will silently fail"
14:03<Kogut>maybe it is hard to change (squirrel etc) but it may be really nice
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14:08<Kogut>and somehow it works now (thanks for info about CONFIG_DEVELOPER it was one of the problems)
14:09<loss>this game is way to confusing, trying to get trains and bus moving
14:10<@Yexo>loss: did you follow the tutorial on the wiki?
14:10<loss>there a wiki page?
14:11<loss>plantmark I'm a noob ok :p
14:11<@planetmaker>19:39 planetmaker: has our wiki been recommended to you? ;-)
14:11<V453000>you manage to find IRC but not wiki ? :D
14:11<loss>yup :)
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14:13<@Terkhen>the path of less effort :)
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14:21<Kogut>oho. I love new superzoom
14:21<@Belugas>FEED ME FEED ME!
14:22<@planetmaker>cookie for Belugas!
14:22<V453000>it is handful when figuring offsets :p
14:22<@planetmaker>though... I rather have Christmas stollen here
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14:25<@Belugas>milk for planetmaker
14:25<@Belugas>i stole if from santa for you
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14:30<Kogut>poor Yogscast. Playing with old train acceleration model :(
14:31<V453000>some people even consider it better :D :p
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14:32<Kogut>some people prefer goats
14:33<@Belugas>some others ghosts
14:34<@planetmaker>what about ghost goats?
14:34<Kogut>heh, my little sister decided that she will catch Santa Claus
14:35<@planetmaker>make sure you got a camera at hand :-)
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14:41<Kogut>my computer decided to celebrate Murphy law day. Inserting headphones will mute sound.
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15:06<Nite_Owl_>frosch123: So if I keep the the drop down list results window small the crash should not happen ?
15:07*Nite_Owl_ too many the's
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15:09<Zuu>Woho, my NoGo now can build a bus stop for player 0. :-)
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15:11<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23438 /trunk/ ( config.lib): -Fix [FS#4867]: perform checks for nforenum/grfcodec in configure, including a version check so a proper error can be given when a too old grfcodec or nforenum is used
15:11<@Terkhen>hmm... sounds buggy
15:12<@planetmaker>for the town?
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15:12<@planetmaker>Zuu: can every player use it?
15:13<@planetmaker>or what happens?
15:13<Nite_Owl>Darn this flaky internet connection
15:13<Zuu>No, it builds it as company 0. (index being the internal ones)
15:13<Zuu>I just wanted to test that the tutorial script can execute player actions.
15:14<Zuu>So now, that code has been removed again.
15:15<Nite_Owl>Sorry frosch123 - I was referencing the report I made on Flyspray earlier today.
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15:16<Nite_Owl>I will run some tests.
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15:20<Zuu>In which forum does NoGo script theards belong? OpenTTD Development?
15:21<@Yexo>it's been suggested to rename "OpenTTD AIs" to "OpenTTD Scripts", but that's not yet done
15:21<@Yexo>feel free to post in there though
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15:22<frosch123>Nite_Owl: the window resizes itself when it needs more space for the addtional text
15:23<frosch123>if it then becomes higher than the ottd window, it crashes
15:23<frosch123>so, just do not resize the list too high
15:23<@planetmaker>Zuu: working on the tutorial?
15:24<Zuu>a bit yes, but I'm unsure about the arcitecture, so I think I'll post what I got along with some questions.
15:24<@planetmaker>Zuu: I wonder whether we sh/could start an experiment repo ;-)
15:24<@planetmaker>would get me a bit started.
15:24<@planetmaker>But I didn't yet do much with scripts or AIs
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15:25<Zuu>planetmaker: That means you have fresh eyes :-)
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15:31<Nite_Owl>Test successful and you are correct sir. I was making the window too large for the additional text to expand into and still stay within the boundaries of the overall window. I will keep my windows smaller in the future.
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15:35<@planetmaker>Zuu: I'll be very happy to provide them :-)
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15:42<V453000>hi andy
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15:50<Zuu>planetmaker: Posted to NoAI forum.
15:50<Zuu>Maybe you can move the posts in the NoGo thread over to that thread?
16:00<Zuu>I'm currently temped to say godbye to save/loading tutorial and go for a simple code layout.
16:10<@planetmaker>simple is fine for me :-)
16:10<@planetmaker>the tutorial should probably be simple, single steps
16:11<@planetmaker>you meant with save/load the memory where one left?
16:14<TrueBrain>maybe also move out the idea of accident recovery vehicles? :)
16:14<TrueBrain>I love the idea, but it is a bit misplaced inside NoGo, in the size if grew
16:17<TrueBrain>if=it :D
16:17<andythenorth>seems like GS could easily become a scope monster :D
16:17<andythenorth>and the all purpose solution to every pony :P
16:19<@planetmaker>TrueBrain: the idea of the accident recovery vehicle is nice. But IMHO for now a bit out-of-scope. Or maybe not out-of-scope but something for later
16:19<TrueBrain>planetmaker: that is what I mean :)
16:19<TrueBrain>so to make sure it doesnt get lost, maybe move it to its own thread?
16:19<@planetmaker>I was just confirming you :-)
16:20<andythenorth>it won't get lost :)
16:20<TrueBrain>it really would be an epic eye-candy :D
16:20<@planetmaker>maybe a split would be nice
16:20<@planetmaker>for that reason
16:20<andythenorth>if it's a good idea it will be remembered, or suggested again
16:20<TrueBrain>well, andythenorth just promised it wont get lost, so :P
16:20<@planetmaker>good :p
16:20<TrueBrain>saves me splitting the topic :D
16:20<TrueBrain>I hate that ... forum software .. ugh ..
16:20<andythenorth>unfortunately 'suggested again' also applies to bad ideas :P
16:21<TrueBrain>OpenTTD 3D?!
16:21<@planetmaker>no. 4D. with voxels
16:21<@planetmaker>3D would be boring. No time progression. Just full rotation
16:21<@planetmaker>I really don't understand 3D obsession ;-)
16:22<TrueBrain>BUT THE WORLD IS 3D?!!?!?!?!??!?!?!!1!!!!!111oneelven
16:22<TrueBrain>@kick TrueBrain CAPITALS
16:22<TrueBrain>DorpsGek: you are a pussy
16:22<andythenorth>make it 3D
16:22<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: I don't recognize you.
16:22<Kogut>well, I prefer ASCII than lame 3D like skyrimi or crysis
16:23<andythenorth>you have to choose three out of the four readily accessible dimensions :P
16:23<Kogut>photo realistic 3D is something that may be acceptable
16:23<andythenorth>Kogut: that's done already
16:23<andythenorth>you missed the patch :P
16:24<andythenorth>it even has weather:
16:25<Rubidium>but openttd only has 1D
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16:28<Rubidium>hmm... this is a bit late for me to be working ;)
16:31<Kogut>Yogscast: coal on vacation. And I think that here, this expression is justified: lol
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16:58<@Terkhen>good night
17:00*andythenorth has a pony request
17:00<andythenorth>build locks over rapids without bulldozing the rapids first
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17:21<Wolf01>'night o/
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17:23<TrueBrain>lol @ glx :)
17:23<TrueBrain>cheers mate :)
17:24<+glx>you don't have autojoin, but at least you autojoin on invite
17:24<TrueBrain>only to trusted :)
17:25*Zuu wonders what Tedstery will do if we tell him that OpenTTD is an unpopular vs. popular game... ( @ general forums )
17:26<TrueBrain>Zuu: did you try NoGo-0.1, with GSCompanyMode?
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17:26<Zuu>TrueBrain: Yes
17:26<TrueBrain>did I fix it? :D
17:26<Zuu>And it worked
17:26<TrueBrain>epic :)
17:26<TrueBrain>I tried a few of the script snippets, but that were not real tests .. so I was just hoping the code would be fine :P
17:26<Zuu>Great work
17:27<TrueBrain>stupid oversight :P
17:27<+glx>maybe you need a regression test :)
17:27<TrueBrain>nah :P
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18:19<Jocke>[22:24:21] <andythenorth> it even has weather: <- There's also a passenger train running on that line, I've gone on it when I've visited my uncle ^^
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18:25<DDR>Trains have been run through stupider conditions... basically, see a history of railroading in British Coloumbia for details. :P
18:25<DDR>Though, to spoil the surprise, just tilt that picture by 60 degrees.
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18:37<Jocke>DDR: Hm? I think you misread what I wrote there
18:37<Jocke>I've been on a train on those tracks, with that snow around
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18:51<DDR>Yeah; it looks like a standard railway in a cold climate.
18:52<DDR>Just in B.C., it's not only in deep snow, it's also on a mountain. And in avalanche country.
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19:03<Eddi|zuHause>@calc (500-338)/26
19:03<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 6.23076923077
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19:35<Eddi|zuHause>what did i do wrong when i get: openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp:1039: void SettingEntry::Init(byte, bool): Assertion `this->d.entry.setting != __null' failed.
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>when opening the settings window
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>(i added a setting)
19:36<@Yexo>name mismatch between the setting in settings_gui.cpp and in settings_type.h?
19:39<Eddi|zuHause>hmm... checking
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20:00<Eddi|zuHause> <-- the grids seem to work, but i must have done something wrong with the "natural" layouts. the towns never get larger than about 5x5
20:05<Eddi|zuHause>ah... i think i found it... testing
20:07<Eddi|zuHause>fixed, same link
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>(issue was mising brackets around trinary operator)
20:09<Eddi|zuHause>anyone fancy fixing the found town gui?
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20:14<Eddi|zuHause>i should probably do this against an up to date trunk :p
20:17<Eddi|zuHause>so... better :)
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>*test* *poch* *poch* ... is this thing on?
20:21<supermop_>its not on
20:27<Eddi|zuHause>damn. i'll delete all my work then and start from scratch
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20:45<nicfer>can I make a newgrf without graphics with NML?
20:47<nicfer>I mean, all being code
20:53<nicfer>I'm going to make a grf that moves all maglevs to monorail
20:55<nicfer>also adding some new vehicles using the subtropical graphics
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21:07<Eddi|zuHause>sure, that's possible
21:21<nicfer>a bit OffTopic, what nogo release is 'h6058373d-nogo'?
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21:25<Eddi|zuHause>i can't think of an answer that's not a tautology
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---Logclosed Tue Dec 06 00:00:43 2011