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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-06

---Logopened Tue Dec 06 00:00:43 2011
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02:28<@planetmaker>moin
02:33<appe>morning
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02:57<@Terkhen>good morning
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03:17<Zuu>morning and off to work :-)
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03:28<dihedral>greetings
03:29<@Terkhen>hi dihedral
03:30<@peter1138>urgh, definitely done something to my shoulders/upper back :S
03:30<@planetmaker>hi DDR
03:30<@planetmaker>ehm... hi dihedral
03:31<DDR>Hi, planetmaker.
03:31<@planetmaker>:-)
03:31<DDR>What's up?
03:31<dihedral>:-P
03:31<@peter1138>carrying 8 * 23kg boxes upstairs apparently did it for me :S
03:31<@planetmaker>tab completion is up :-P
03:31<dihedral>the line from Terkhen is
03:31<DDR>Yay! I lurvs tab completion!
03:32<dihedral>i love crtl+r in bash
03:32<@planetmaker>peter1138: do it more often and you'll be fine even afterwards ;-)
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03:33<dihedral>or simply have it amputated if it annoys you :-P
03:33<@peter1138>true that
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05:59<@planetmaker>hm, qc is getting really philosophical ;-)
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06:43<Lachie>evening
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06:56<@Terkhen>hi Lachie
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07:01<Lachie>what's happening?
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07:12<@peter1138>i'm testing EZ sprites
07:12<@peter1138>or will do, once the 32bit-gfx-nightly-megapack-2011-06-15.tar downloads
07:12<@peter1138>38.9MB ~ 100KB/s :(
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07:17<@peter1138>of course, they're quite ugly, but i can't fix that ;)
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08:02<@planetmaker>peter1138, I'm pondering to start a 'real' 32bpp base set or to add that maybe even directly to OpenGFX. Not yet sure what makes sense
08:02<@planetmaker>definitely not all existing 32bpp EZ sprites do
08:03<@Terkhen>that would be nice :)
08:04<@peter1138>32bpp-optimized/anim are crashing :(
08:06<@planetmaker>but I'd definitely like bananas support for that...
08:08<@planetmaker>until then I guess I'll have to supply the "standard package" via bananas and the "extended package" via DevZone
08:12<@planetmaker>Mostly it'll need a graphics artist to really work on that, too
08:12<@planetmaker>To make it all a bit consistent
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08:28<@peter1138>if dst > dst_ln... i've done something wrong. hmm.
08:28<@peter1138>i somehow doubt there are 2.5 million pixels in this row...
08:29<@peter1138>oh, /4
08:29<@peter1138>still :)
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08:38<Amis>Hello o/
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08:39<Amis>Is it possible to turn on "Funding only" for industries when the game is already running? (like through console or something)
08:40<@planetmaker>yes
08:40<@planetmaker>through console
08:40<Amis>Which command is it?
08:40<@planetmaker>look up your openttd.cfg
08:40<@planetmaker>set settingname value
08:41<@planetmaker>or on servers via rcon set settingname value
08:41<@planetmaker>I probably miss some quotes
08:42<@planetmaker>in SP you can of course change it directly via GUI
08:42<Amis>I guess it's "number_industries" and zero is the value of funding only
08:42<@planetmaker>sounds wrong
08:42<Amis>Then "industry_density"?
08:43<@planetmaker>raw_industry_construction
08:43<@planetmaker>you can always fund secondary ones
08:43<Amis>Oh, you may misunderstood me
08:44<Amis>I'm looking for the one at map generation
08:44<Amis>Not how you can fund industries
08:44<@planetmaker>eh?
08:44<@planetmaker>on a server or in single player?
08:44<Amis>The number of industries (very low, low, etc...) when generating a new map
08:44<+glx>so you don't want any industries at start
08:45<Amis>No, I have this map running but the rate at the industries spawn is kinda high and I want to disabled the spawning of new industries
08:45<Amis>Only player should create industries now
08:45<@planetmaker>then the settings you said are the correct ones. Not sure though that changing them has an effect
08:45<@planetmaker>try :-)
08:47<Amis>Great, "number_industries" is unknown and density one is for network only :/
08:47<Eddi|zuHause>"HEQ's" ... oh my eyes bleed! :/
08:48<@planetmaker>I nearly thought so.
08:48<@planetmaker>So what you want to do basically, Amis , is create a new map with no industries and no industry density, manually place in the SE a few industries, if you want and load that map
08:50<+glx>difficulty.industry_density
08:50<Amis>planetmaker, no. I have a map already created and playing it for a while. I want to "set" the spawn rate of new industries to "Funding only" so only ME can create industries and the game won't flood my shores with stupid oil rigs and etc...
08:50<+glx>set it to 0
08:51<Amis>glx, for multi only :/
08:52<+glx>no newgame only indeed
08:52<Amis>*sadface*
08:53<Amis>I guess I have to turn on the magic bulldozer and get rid of em manually
08:53<+glx>probably because newgrfs
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08:55<Amis>I do have some newgrfs but it does the same in a default setting. If you have minimal amount of water area around the edges and you are playing for a while (let's say 20 years) it will keep spawning new oil rigs on there so you'll end up with rigs on rigs
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>we should maybe invest some time to make the difficulty settings changable ingame. e.g. max load or industry density
09:01*Amis nods in agreement
09:01<@planetmaker>The difficulty settings IMHO rather should be converted to normal settings
09:01<@planetmaker>Difficulty is hardly affected by them (or at least as much by other settings)
09:01<@planetmaker>And then maybe setting presets which could be like both, "newbie", "advanced" "all" and "easy", "moderate" "hard" as the other category
09:02<Amis>Nowdays difficulty settings = kinkeh newgrfs
09:02<@planetmaker>and one should move over some game options there, too
09:02<@planetmaker>maybe I should re-activate my meanwhile ancient patch queue...
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>but that is something entirely unrelated
09:05<+glx>won't change the fact that some newgrf read these settings on init and can cause desync if the setting is change between 2 player joins
09:06<+glx>that's the only reason to disable changing some settings ingame
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09:09<Eddi|zuHause>but that applies only to multiplayer
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>the difficulty settings are also not changable in _single_ playeer
09:13<@Belugas>hello
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09:20<@peter1138>size mismatch: full-size 130 256 (33 64), scaled 32 64
09:20<@peter1138>hmm
09:20<@peter1138>that might be it
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09:21<@peter1138>trying to draw a row that doesn't exist. hmm.
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09:22<andythenorth>was this prototyped in ottd?
09:22<andythenorth>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16047098
09:22<andythenorth>:P
09:26<@peter1138>yes, that's it :D
09:27<@peter1138>i wonder how 32bpp-EZ coped...
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09:44<@peter1138>hmmmmm
09:49<andythenorth>yup
09:49<andythenorth>my thoughts exactly
09:51<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/yaez3.png
09:51<@peter1138>yeah :S
09:51<@peter1138>hmm
09:51<andythenorth>madness
09:51<@planetmaker>not bad, peter1138
09:51<andythenorth>some of those buildings aren't pixelated
09:51<andythenorth>what's that about :P
09:51<@planetmaker>cheap rip-off :-P
09:52<@peter1138>oh
09:52<@peter1138>fixed the tall 32bpp sprites being pixelates
09:52<andythenorth>peter1138: are you planning to add a filter that down-samples those nasty hi-res sprites?
09:52<@planetmaker>I'd say 'no'
09:53<@planetmaker>normal tile size should stay authorative
09:53<@peter1138>nope
09:53<@planetmaker>rest is 'extra'
09:53<andythenorth>pah
09:53<andythenorth>:)
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09:56<@peter1138>oh, you want them blocky? heh
09:56<@peter1138>well, don't install the EZ sprites ;)
09:56<@planetmaker>:-D
09:56<@peter1138>(i assume it's possible to have tars full of normal zoom sprites and separate tars for extra zoom)
09:57<@peter1138>some of these ez sprites have massive shadows that aren't drawn properly
09:57<@peter1138>stick out too far from the tile edge
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09:57<@peter1138>much likes FIR's smoke :)
09:57<@planetmaker>hm... shouldn't EZ sprites always have normal zoom accompany them?
09:57<andythenorth>stupid FIRS
09:57<@peter1138>planetmaker, it's not necessary
09:58<@planetmaker>well. Not necessary. But it will be strange
09:58<@planetmaker>How do I then select which EZ sprite to use?
09:58<andythenorth>some of these EZ sprites are confused about where the sun is :P
09:58<@planetmaker>if they're not a set?
09:58<@planetmaker>with the concurrently used normal zoom
09:58<@Yexo><peter1138> (i assume it's possible to have tars full of normal zoom sprites and separate tars for extra zoom) <- I don't think that is currently possible, but perhaps it is
09:58<@Yexo>don't the sprites for a newgrf have to be in the same tar file as the grf itself?
09:59<@planetmaker>^^ I'd like that actually to be necessary
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09:59<@peter1138>huh?
09:59<@planetmaker>or you might very easily get WAY too many cross-talk of unwanted category
10:00<@peter1138>Yexo, no
10:00<@peter1138>it's not currently necessary, and these 32bpp-ez sprites rely on it
10:00<@peter1138>anyway we scale sprites as needed
10:00<@Yexo>how does it work? directory name has to match the grf name?
10:00<@peter1138>Yexo, yup, just that
10:00<@planetmaker>peter1138, but how do they / should theybehave if I have two versions of them? In separate tars?
10:00<@peter1138>that's TrueBrain's design ;)
10:00<@planetmaker>I see much mayhem going there
10:00<@peter1138>planetmaker, buggered if i know
10:01<@Yexo>make the version part of the grf name
10:01<@planetmaker>I'd say "same tar"
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10:02<@planetmaker>because now I forsee that I'll have newgrf or baseset v0.1 with both 8bpp and 32bpp. And then v0.2 also. And... yeah :-)
10:03<andythenorth>broken FIRS smoke in high res
10:03<@planetmaker>Feature: High-resolution bugs
10:03<@planetmaker>or bugs in HD :-P
10:03<@peter1138>andythenorth, it's broken whatever res
10:04<andythenorth>I know but it will be broken better in hi res
10:04<andythenorth>more players will be attracted
10:04<@peter1138>this pack has a miserable 3 vehicles done
10:05<@peter1138>and they're crap
10:05<@planetmaker>peter1138, at the same time I'd not want the 32bpp be active when I use a NewGRF to actionA replace the sprites
10:05<@peter1138>planetmaker, why?
10:05<@peter1138>i assume you know how that works
10:05<@planetmaker>might totally not match the actionA replaced sprite
10:05<@Yexo>planetmaker: if it works well the 32bpp sprites from the newgrf that uses the actionA would be loaded
10:05<@peter1138>it will look for 32bpp versions of the replacement sprites...
10:06<@planetmaker>good :-)
10:06<@peter1138>none of this is new
10:06<@peter1138>32bpp sprites have always been loaded based on grf file name and sprite id within
10:07<@planetmaker>sorry, wasn't sure about actionA :-)
10:07<@peter1138>action a will of course update those, so it won't magically know how to load the original unreplaced sprite
10:07<@planetmaker>yes. That's goood
10:07<@peter1138>and that's been there since 32bpp was introduced
10:07<@peter1138>i'm sure you've tested it with all the 32bpp sets available :D
10:08<@planetmaker>:D
10:08<@planetmaker>but too long ago to test it all in detail :-)
10:09<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23439 /trunk/src/script/squirrel.cpp: -Fix: Use the DEBUG macro to output the reason for a compile failure in info.nut instead of printing it directly to stderr
10:11<@peter1138>so... still wonder how 32bpp-ez gets around this blitter issue
10:12<@peter1138>blitter params are set up based on the zoomed in sprite dimensions
10:12<@peter1138>if the zoom level sprite is a smaller, it'll read out of bounds and break
10:13<@Yexo>are you sure it deals properly with that? Perhaps it just added a bounds check to prevent crashes
10:13<@peter1138>32bpp-ez doesn't appear to change that, but i could be missing it :)
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10:13<@peter1138>could be hidden in their changes to GfxMainBlitter
10:15<@peter1138>oh, i see
10:15<@peter1138>GetSprite returns a different sprite based on the global _cur_dpi->zoom
10:16<@peter1138>nasty
10:16<@peter1138>otoh, it means gfxmainblitter has the real sprite size
10:17<@peter1138>i haven't changed the spritecache that way though
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10:19<@peter1138>maybe i should o_O
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10:36<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/yaez4.png
10:36<@peter1138>yeah, delightful
10:36<@peter1138>tall sprites loading
10:36<@peter1138>and dodgy shadows showing :p
10:36<@peter1138>oh, and dodgy recolour sprites
10:38<Elukka>hm. somehow most 32bpp sprites look less detailed than 8 bit ones
10:38<Elukka>they have that untextured 3D model look
10:39<@peter1138>yup
10:39<SpComb>reflections, eh
10:39<@Terkhen>yes, they look plain
10:40<Elukka>i suppose another problem with them is that you'd need some kind of general art direction to make them look good and consistent
10:41<@Terkhen>since all of them would be "new" sprites, they could establish conventions such as "direction of light" and "direction of wind" that are not consistent with 8bpp
10:41<@Terkhen>not that I notice those details :P
10:44<@peter1138>apparently the sun is at about 3:10pm
10:45<@peter1138>how reasonable is it to require sprites to be the correct scaled size?
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10:49<Elukka>i think the models would need proper texturing to look really good as sprites
10:51<Rubidium>peter1138: I see no reason why that couldn't be a condition for the sprites (read: I'm okay with such a requirement if is makes stuff simpler code wise)
10:51<@planetmaker>direction of light is - according to andy - about 4:30pm
10:51<@planetmaker>maybe also am ;-)
10:51<@planetmaker>and roughly consistent size among one sprite category makes sense imho
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10:52<@planetmaker>16:45 peter1138: how reasonable is it to require sprites to be the correct scaled size?
10:52<@planetmaker>^^ you mean that the zoom-level sprites must be the same proportions properly scaled?
10:52<@planetmaker>would be fine with me, too
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10:54<Ammler>a common direction of light might be ok, but for wind it would rather be bad
10:54<Ammler>or boring :-)
10:56<@peter1138>planetmaker, don't be silly, it's dark at 4:30am ;)
10:56<@planetmaker>:-D
10:57<Elukka>it's dark at 4:30 pm now!
10:57<@planetmaker>Ammler: for a single set it might make sense ;-)
10:57<@planetmaker>I guess a common _light_ direction makes quite sense
10:57<@peter1138>currently if a prescaled down sprite is too small, i ignore it, and make one based on the last valid zoom level
10:57<@planetmaker>pre-scaled down?
10:58<@planetmaker>I thought we always want normal zoom?
10:58<@peter1138>prescaled as opposed to scaled by the game
11:06<andythenorth>afaik the 32bpp stuff has a common light direction if they all use the same render rig
11:06<andythenorth>but they've chosen a dumb direction :P
11:06<andythenorth>so they're all consistently ugly
11:10<Rubidium>I must say the *train* of http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=153009 looks pretty nice, although the shades outside of the image need to go
11:11<@planetmaker>yes
11:11<andythenorth>they are toylike which is nice
11:11<Rubidium>though it gives me a much higher "Thomas & friends" feel
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>it emphasises the need for longer wagons :)
11:12<@planetmaker>yeah ;-)
11:13<Rubidium>or... narrower/lower vehicles
11:13<Rubidium>will help with some other glitches as well ;)
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>speaking of which: i'd _really_ like a newgrf property to make the bounding box longer than the vehicle
11:13<andythenorth>looks like chuggington
11:13<andythenorth>I'd like long ships not to disappear 32% of the time :P
11:18-!-MEEKS1 [6d964b9e@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
11:19<MEEKS1>hi can some1 help me?
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/town_space2.diff <-- need testers, and someone who updates the found town gui
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11:23<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, why longer?
11:24<@peter1138>it will fuck up tunnels/bridges/probably-foundations/probably-crossing-tile-edges, etc..
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: no, it won't. shorter bounding boxes fuck up tunnels/bridges/foundations/...
11:25-!-sla_ro|master [slaco@95.76.26.172] has joined #openttd
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. if you use refit tricks to shorten a vehicle to 1lu to make a "shorter" consist
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>this worked fine previously, but with the new shortened bounding boxes, it glitches
11:26<Eddi|zuHause>HEQS trams might suffer from this (haven't checked)
11:27<andythenorth>what would the glitch look like?
11:27<@peter1138>should allow 0lu vehicles :)
11:27<@peter1138>then you just bung them on the end
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: let it drive over a foundation or slope, the foundation will occasionally be drawn over the vehicle
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11:29<@peter1138>if the vehicle is bigger than the bounding box, yeah
11:30<@peter1138>i assume the vehicle following goes crazy with 0lu vehicles ;)
11:30<TGYoshi>you guys know everything so.. is it possible to split log(2x-3) so I get rid of the chain-rule? :3
11:32<Hirundo>What's so bad about the chain rule?
11:33<TGYoshi>What´s so great about the chain rule?
11:33<Hirundo>It works (tm)
11:33<Hirundo>Now provide your answer :P
11:33<TGYoshi>So much writing ;)
11:34<Hirundo>d/dx(2x-3) = 2, I don't see how that causes much writing
11:34<+michi_cc>Not that it would help you with the chain rule, but log(a-b) = log(a) + log(1-b/a)
11:35<TGYoshi>Mwah, if I use the chain rule I gotta write all this:
11:35<TGYoshi>a = log(b)
11:35<@peter1138>hmm, not possible to have different sprite offsets either
11:35<TGYoshi>a´ = 1/(ln10 * b)
11:35<TGYoshi>b = 2x-3
11:35<TGYoshi>b´ = 2
11:35<TGYoshi>f´ = a´ * b´
11:36<TGYoshi>= 2/(ln10 * 2x-3)
11:36<TGYoshi>+brackets*
11:36<TGYoshi>So much writing ;)
11:36<TGYoshi>michi_cc: ty, so much stuff? :/
11:36<TGYoshi>lol
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: the other application would be my longer wagons, which are currently difficult to compose of several sprites, when they go around curves or slopes
11:39<@peter1138>long bounding boxes aren't going to help there
11:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes, they actually are
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>well, they'd be a workaround
11:40<Eddi|zuHause>the other thing i need is to give a dynamic sprite offset
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11:41<Eddi|zuHause>as in either "draw this relative to <other vehicle>" or "apply this offset to the sprite [and use var62 to calculate the offset]
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12:01<@peter1138>hm
12:09<andythenorth>j<
12:09<andythenorth>gn
12:09<andythenorth>fb
12:09<andythenorth>"it seems to be a simple pattern"
12:09<@peter1138>well said
12:10<andythenorth>"possibly a repetition of a musical theme"
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>your < is at a weird place
12:11<@peter1138>no, it's the correct place
12:11<@peter1138>although andythenorth randomly pressed shift
12:12<andythenorth>I don't like that other character
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12:14<@peter1138>hm j, k. l/ etc
12:15<andythenorth>jb
12:15<andythenorth>g.
12:15<andythenorth>yj
12:15<andythenorth>uk
12:15<andythenorth>what larks
12:15<andythenorth>:P
12:15<andythenorth>we should write code for a living
12:18<@peter1138>i do
12:18<@peter1138>fortunately just computer code, not cryptographic codes :p
12:19<murr4y>this is good material for a new dan brown novel
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12:33*andythenorth makes a living paying other people to write code
12:33*andythenorth is a capitalist exploiter
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12:37<Jordan>Hello, how would I go about making the icons bigger? Like 4 times bigger?
12:38<@planetmaker>grab the graphics programme of your choice and use the zoom algorithm of your choice and code the whole thing as NewGRF
12:39<@planetmaker>you might just use the BigGUI NewGRF, though
12:39<@planetmaker>would save you the work ;-)
12:40<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-biggui/nightlies/LATEST/ <-- maybe you want this updated version
12:40<Jordan>okay I'll try that thanks
12:48<lugo>mmh i'm having issues with desyncs in a game i host (openttd-chillpp-hec8df784-windows-win32)
12:48<lugo>thing is, only one player gets desynced
12:49-!-pjpe [ade6a119@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
12:49<lugo>since he has the exact same version as all other players and since the wiki reads 'Desyncs are always bugs in OpenTTD' i wonder what's happening there
12:49<@peter1138>4x might be a bit much :)
12:49<@Yexo>you're playing with a custom patchpack, so complain in the topic for that
12:49<andythenorth>roadtypes2 ?
12:49<andythenorth>oh my fingers slipped :P
12:49<andythenorth>I should learn to buffer brain and fingers
12:50<lugo>Yexo: yeah thought there might be some general troubleshooting steps i could do before that
12:50<@peter1138>nah, everyone wants glossy unmatched high resolution sprites, i'm sure
12:52<lugo>so some tweaking in the [network] part of the config is not likely to do anything right?
12:52<@Yexo>not likely
12:52<@planetmaker>lugo: you can compile the game with desync debugging enabled, start the server in desync debugging mode and then analyse the MB of data it spews out
12:52<@planetmaker>and search where it differs from savegames from the clients taken in similar regular steps
12:53<@planetmaker>i.e. desync debugging is one of the least amusing bugs to fix
12:54<@planetmaker>as you've to compare state of client and server. And have a well-known initial state to start from)
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12:55<Jordan>there we go that's much better. Now I can differentiate between the buttons. :)
12:56<@planetmaker>Jordan: if you also play online, you might want to add that NewGRF in your openttd.cfg to the list of static newgrfs
12:56<@planetmaker>then it's always active
12:57<lugo>thanks planetmaker, i was afraid of that...
12:57<Jordan>I found the newgrf-static section in openttd.cfg but I don't know what to put
12:58<@planetmaker>do you have that newgrf currently in the "normal" newgrf section?
12:58<@planetmaker>Then just copy that line
12:59<Jordan>no I don't
12:59<@planetmaker>mind also that editing the cfg will only be effective if OpenTTD is not running
12:59<Jordan>right
12:59<@planetmaker>or it'll be overwritten once you quit OpenTTD
13:00<Jordan>wait
13:00<Jordan>>ogfx-biggui.grf =
13:00<Jordan>that showed up under the newgrf section
13:01<@planetmaker>yep. Just move that to the static section
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13:01<@planetmaker>save the cfg. and you're done
13:01<Jordan>okay cool
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13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23440 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: estonian - 35 changes by hellohboy
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: french - 25 changes by glx
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: hungarian - 35 changes by Brumi
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 2 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: japanese - 4 changes by ikanotheokara
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13:58<Eddi|zuHause>possible suggestion for YACD: allow setting a percentage of cargo that will go to a random connected location (instead of choosing a completely random destination)
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>so an industry will produce X% for predetermined destinations, Y% for connected destinations, and Z% for random destinations
14:00<Eddi|zuHause>that may improve things in the beginning, when the predetermined destinations are not fitting well into your network
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>that'd be something inbetween current YACD and CargoDist/YACDist
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14:17<andythenorth>that's a nice suggestion
14:17-!-Tenebrae [~Tenebrae@pool-71-105-104-87.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
14:17<andythenorth>it's even realistic :P
14:17<Tenebrae>There are people here.
14:17-!-JVassie [~James@2.30.129.191] has joined #openttd
14:17<Tenebrae>Whether or not they want to answer your question is another matter entirely.
14:17<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause industries don't contract so much with industries for which there is no transport :P
14:17<Tenebrae>Oh, snap.
14:17-!-Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>ENotAtEndOfBacklog :p
14:20<SpComb>EWrongPersonOnRightChannel
14:21<andythenorth>anyone want to code BANDIT?
14:21<andythenorth>:D :P
14:22<andythenorth>I could use a collaborator
14:22<andythenorth>I am endlessly fun to work with, just ask anyone round here :P
14:23<andythenorth>it's nml...
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>you could adapt my generator script :)
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>then all you need is a table with stats :)
14:23<andythenorth>your generator script handles articulated RVs?
14:24<andythenorth>maybe you adapt it :D
14:24-!-JVassie_ [~James@2.30.129.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>it handles articulated trains
14:24<andythenorth>I find your views interesting, may I subscribe to your newsletter?
14:25-!-awesome [50a205e1@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
14:25<andythenorth>that's pretty awesome
14:25<awesome>hi... how do i make aserver for my friends only?
14:25<Rubidium>- set a password
14:25<Rubidium>- don't advertise it, but let your friends enter the address manually
14:25<awesome>i mean how do i MAKE it?
14:26-!-Tenebrae [~Tenebrae@pool-71-105-104-87.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #openttd [Leaving]
14:26<Rubidium>- ask you friends over and run a LAN only game
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>set up your firewall and click on start multiplayer game
14:26<Jordan>I think he means "how do you set up a server"
14:26<awesome>my friend can't find the server and i have port forwarded it?
14:26<awesome>yes!
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>awesome: let them input your IP
14:27<awesome>how?
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>awesome: likely you port-forwarded only TCP, not UDP
14:27<Jordan>damn I have 500 passengers waiting at a bus station
14:28<awesome>i port forwarded in both?
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>Jordan: i think i had 15000 once :)
14:28<awesome>can i use hamachi?
14:28<Jordan>DAMN
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>awesome: i don't know what that is
14:28<Jordan>Hamachi is a VPN program
14:28<Jordan>it would work
14:29<awesome>ok.. 2 sec will try it out
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14:29<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you do know that code generators are always evil?
14:29<andythenorth>or did you not get that email?
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yep :p
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: we did cover that in compiler construction lectures :p
14:30<andythenorth>they may seem innocent, but they are really just biding their time
14:30<andythenorth>waiting to bite you
14:30<andythenorth>with an edge case, or complexity hell
14:30<Sacro>I miss yacc and bison
14:30*andythenorth has written code generators :P
14:31<awesome>how do my friend join?
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14:31<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i cover edge cases with including a "custom callbacks" file
14:31<andythenorth>ah
14:31<andythenorth>cheating :P
14:32<andythenorth>I am trying to avoid edge cases in BANDIT - by design
14:32<Jordan>oh god now there's 760 passengers
14:32<andythenorth>conveniently, the edge cases can be put in HEQS, which is plain old NFO + CPP
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: usually i use this for some weird articulation exceptions... usual articulation is done by (AB*C)
14:32-!-Joker [50a205e1@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>but i have a train that has ABC*D
14:33<Joker>how did my friend join my hamachi server?
14:33<Jordan>you give him your hamachi network's name and password
14:33<Joker>yes but ingame
14:33<@Belugas>he prefered to be with your hamachi server than with you!
14:33<Jordan>he enter's your computer's IP address
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>Joker: search for LAN games?
14:34<Joker>okay..... we are in a hamachi group! but how does he connect in game?
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>"making something idiot proof just creates better idiots"
14:36<@Alberth>Joker: he picks an existing company, or creates a new one
14:37<@Alberth>Joker: http://wiki.openttd.org/Multiplayer#Entering_the_game
14:38<Joker>he can't find the server!
14:38<Joker>F.I.N.D!
14:38<@planetmaker>Joker: setup your network properly and allow the proper ports to pass
14:39<@planetmaker>@ports
14:39<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
14:39<@Alberth>you don't need to find it if you have its IP address
14:39<@planetmaker>and search the forum for it. In 99.995% the people mis-configured one or more of firewall or router
14:39<@planetmaker>which is something you'll have to figure out from those handbooks you got for them
14:40<@Alberth>Joker: http://wiki.openttd.org/Multiplayer#Connecting_to_a_server <-- in that window, he clicks 'add server', and types your IP address
14:42<Jordan>oh god everyone wants to leave Nunington
14:42<Jordan>>Waiting: 1635 passengers
14:42<@Alberth>if he cannot connect, most likely your ports are configured wrong at the router firewall, or your firewall of the machine. In theory his firewall can also mess things up, but that does not happen a lot, as normally, firewalls allow outgoing connections
14:42<Jordan>>population: 1956
14:43<@Alberth>oh, that is quite normal :)
14:43<Jordan>what kind of hellhole is that place
14:43<@Alberth>your average OpenTTD town :)
14:43<Jordan>O_O
14:45-!-KritiK [~Maxim@95-27-226-16.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
14:46<@Alberth>Jordan: any similarity between concepts in the game and the real world are purely co-incidental and not intended :p
14:46<Jordan>I see
14:47<@planetmaker>:-)
14:47<@Alberth>in other words, don't try to interpret game events as anything real-world :)
14:56<Jordan>>city offers subsidy
14:56<Jordan>>won't let me build close enough
14:56<Jordan>trollololol
14:58-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd
14:58<Jordan>how can I make a train station wider? Just build another one beside it?
15:03-!-valhalla1w [~valhallas@193.52.24.37] has joined #openttd
15:03<@Alberth>That's the easiest way yeah. You can leave a gap between them if you press CTRL while placing, a window pops up with stations nearby select the one you want to extend then :)
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15:06<Jordan>dammit I just cloned a truck I want to sell. :-/
15:17<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I would like to buy your generator script
15:17<andythenorth>I have in my hand 1 dollar in silver coins
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15:34<andythenorth>hmm
15:35<andythenorth>trucks are much smaller than trains aren't they?
15:35<andythenorth>http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=383063&nseq=4
15:35<andythenorth>I forgot to notice
15:37<@Alberth>that is an error in reality
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15:38<andythenorth>reality is not conformant with the game :o
15:38<andythenorth>is reality GPL, or other OS license?
15:42<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: it worries me that I mostly understand your generator :o
15:42<andythenorth>makes it far too tempting...
15:42<Eddi|zuHause>hey i DID put in comments :p
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>and asides of the articulation stuff, there's not a lot of magic in there
15:43<@Alberth>andythenorth: I have no source, nor do I know where to find it :p GPL seems unlikely if you ask me :)
15:43<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I really want to use it...but I won't learn nml that way :(
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>well, there's the parser for the refit lists, and the parser for the graphics
15:44-!-Celestar [~dax@dslb-188-099-125-241.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>and stuff about putting the railtype in the description, but you're likely not going to need that
15:45<andythenorth>need that for roadtypes :P
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>and you still need to know nml, if you want to modify/extend the "prototype" vehicle that the generator is based on
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>the point of the generator is to not have to copy-paste the modification to all vehicles
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15:54<andythenorth>I've been heading that way with templates and defines :P
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes. and this is one more step removed from that :)
15:56<andythenorth>tempting...
15:57<@planetmaker>might be worth it, andythenorth :-)
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>"(German pay-tv) FOX channel will air A Christmas Carol (last year's Doctor Who christmas special) in february"
15:58<Eddi|zuHause>"christmas is gonna be late" :p
15:58<andythenorth>so first I'd have to convert Eddi's script...
15:58<andythenorth>unless Eddi|zuHause wants a BANDIT credit...
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>s/FEAT_TRAINS/FEAT_ROAD/?
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>(or whatever that is in nml)
15:59<andythenorth>ho
15:59<andythenorth>all the prop numbers are abstracted :D
15:59<andythenorth>I forgot that
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>you can probably leave out some columns from the table
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. all that has to do with company/epoch/set
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>there's likely not much real modification needed, only leaving out stuff that you don't need
16:02<andythenorth>I'm convinced...
16:02<andythenorth>I have CETS checked out
16:02<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23441 /trunk/src/ (script/api/script_airport.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#4764]: some airport functions didn't take the layout into account resulting in wrong noise levels or nearests towns (patch by Zuu)
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>there were some makefile changes to call the generator script, you'll have to ask planetmaker about that
16:07<Zuu>Oh, I've forgoten that I written that patch. :-)
16:07-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Tschüß]
16:07<Zuu>wrote*
16:08<@planetmaker>or +have ;-)
16:08<Zuu>I though "I've" but then saw I hadn't typed that. :-)
16:08<@Belugas>hee?? Zuu wrote something that fixed my stuff? cool!
16:08*Belugas is moved
16:09<@planetmaker>good night from here
16:09<Rubidium>too bad that all that moving didn't get you in Europe so participating in the meets would be easier
16:09<Celestar>(=
16:09<Rubidium>night planetmaker
16:11<@Terkhen>good night
16:11<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/yaez6.png < like that
16:11<@peter1138>oh well
16:11<@peter1138>overlapping ground sprites... bad :)
16:11<andythenorth>hmmph
16:11<andythenorth>that building looks ok though
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>oh great... "Eric Bolling of 'Follow the Money' (FOX Business Network) thinks that the muppets movie conveys a communistic message"
16:11<@peter1138>what, the depot in the middle? :D
16:11<andythenorth>the factory :)
16:12<@Belugas>night planetmaker, sweet dreams among the stars :)
16:12<andythenorth>sometimes I like the CGI stuff, sometimes I don't
16:13<Zuu>gqod night planetmaker
16:13<Zuu>good*
16:14<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: the fun thing is that my text editor can syntax highlight python :)
16:14<Rubidium>why does that hous have a swedish flag?
16:14<andythenorth>whereas I am too dumb to teach it nml syntax colouring
16:14<andythenorth>it's swedish houses
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>i just use the nearest script language for nml highlighting
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>what's wrong with the colouring in that picture?
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>the factory roof, i mean
16:18<Zuu>Belugas: I think that patch was part of my work this summer on NoAI support for Airport views and towards NewGRF airports.
16:18<Zuu>I haven't dared to check how much of it that has become broken by all recent changes by TrueBrain :-)
16:19<TrueBrain>pff, I never break anything :D
16:20<Zuu>Actually, I don't think there is that many conflicts, more that files have been renamed + moved around etc.
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16:21<@Alberth>that is easily solved by editing the patch file :p
16:21<Zuu>At least that is what I hope for without looking into it. :-D
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16:25<@Belugas>[16:19] <TrueBrain> pff, I never break anything :D <-- liar, you broke your nail 2 days ago
16:26<TrueBrain>proof it!
16:26-!-amix [~Michal@77.88.121.165] has joined #openttd
16:26<amix>hello
16:26<amix>snowing here
16:26<amix>:)
16:26<@Belugas>hem... cannot...
16:26<TrueBrain>set your snowline higher
16:27<Zuu>I'm happy as long as there is no snow, ice or other slippy surface.
16:27<@Belugas>amix, i'm NOT glad for you, and i'm glad it does not here!
16:27<@Belugas>samo samo, Zuu
16:27<@Belugas>and i have to say, SO FAR, i have a delightfull december
16:27<amix>huhu
16:27<Zuu>Makes my bike ride to work much quicker and safer. :-)
16:28<amix>i love the snow
16:28<amix>:)
16:29<Zuu>With snow I have to go up 10 minutes earlier in the morning if I bike or maby 30-40 minutes earlier if I want to take the bus.
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16:30<amix>Zuu: :)
16:30<amix>i goto training studio
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16:33*andythenorth has a new bike
16:33<Zuu>nice
16:38<@Belugas>i'd rather hide in my <still-in-construction> studio when snow falls
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16:41<appe>snow is an abomination.
16:41<Eddi|zuHause><Zuu> I'm happy as long as there is no snow, ice or other slippy surface. <-- that reads like "i like snow, just as long as there's no snow"
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16:43<frosch123>or, if there is really a lot of it
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>Bug of the day: Facebook allows viewing private photos in the "report for pornography" form
16:53<Jordan>oh facebook
16:53*Rubidium wonders what is "face" about those photos
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16:57<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: I already reported all the photos of my friends
16:57<TrueBrain>just for shit and giggles
16:58<appe>http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/908310_460s_v1.jpg
16:58<andythenorth>bye
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17:01<Eddi|zuHause>that makes absolutely no sense
17:09<+michi_cc>Eddi|zuHause: Regular viewers of FOX News are less informed than people who don't consume any news at all: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/poll-fox-news-viewers-less-informed-than-those-who-read-no-news.php
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17:11<Eddi|zuHause>michi_cc: i always get my news from comedy shows :p
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17:16<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and conspiracy websites
17:25<frosch123>night
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18:01<@peter1138>21:14 < Rubidium> why does that hous have a swedish flag?
18:01<@peter1138>i dunno, swedish people seem to have a thing for spamming swedish flags...
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18:32<__ln__>the most spoken language on the streets of berlin: spanish
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18:47<Zuu>peter1138: I guess they are compensating for that it has became a situation in Sweden where the flag has been taken over by the far right extrimists. Though, I think it was worse 5-10 years ago.
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20:12<lightningchicken>hi
20:17<lightningchicken>hi
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22:18<Lachie>afternoon.
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22:30<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, that may as well describe the state i am in :p
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 07 00:00:54 2011