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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-07

---Logopened Wed Dec 07 00:00:54 2011
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01:35<Lachie> morning.
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01:45<Lachie>not even sure of the technical correctness of writing a GRF in this fashion, but I care not.
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02:12<appe>morning, people
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02:38<@planetmaker>Lachie, the only important thing is, is that the resulting NewGRF is technically correct
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04:01<Lachie>planetmaker: quite sure it will be. I'm just giving myself a whole lot of extra work by creating the code for *everything*, regardless of whether or not it's been drawn yet. Can be commented out and left for later.
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05:07<__ln__>anyway, the Berlin Wall is in bad condition, largely missing... maybe they could apply EU funding to build a shiny new wall that is stronger and higher.
05:09<lugo>grauer streifen grüner rand
05:11<lugo>weisse streifen grüner rand actually %)
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05:20<Uppy>evening all. Can someone tell me how i deliver goods?
05:20<@Yexo>any type of cargo of specially the "goods" cargo?
05:21<Uppy>i have a oil factory that makes goods
05:21<Uppy>but i dont know where i send them
05:21<Uppy>after that
05:21<@Yexo>to a big enough town
05:21<Uppy>how big does it need to be
05:21<@Yexo>no specific amount, it needs a few "big" buildings that'll accept goods
05:22<@planetmaker>depends on the houses. Check out with the station build tool
05:22<@planetmaker>it tells you where it accepts goods
05:22<@Yexo>open the station building tool, hover over the center of a city and see if it accepts goods
05:22<Uppy>will having a mail route
05:22<Uppy>improve a town
05:23<@Yexo>having up to 5 serviced stations in a town will help it grow
05:23<@Yexo>doesn't matter what type of cargo, as long as there is a vehicle at those stations at least every 50 days
05:24<Uppy>ive got one town
05:24<Uppy>with a port that recives
05:24<Uppy>does that work towards improving the town
05:25<@Yexo>if the port is close enough to the city center, yes
05:27<Uppy>5 different places! Yipes
05:33<Uppy>Hmm think ive got it working
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05:36<Sleepingcap>Ello, do players use this chat to find people to play Open TTD with? Like via hamachi or such?
05:38<@planetmaker>seldom. Best way is to just join servers and see whether you like those
05:38<@planetmaker>But of course you can ask :-)
05:39<@planetmaker>But of course it happens, especially if people get excited about a new feature or NewGRF Which they want to test jointly :-)
05:42<@planetmaker>and esp. over in the German community people use the forum to agree on a common time to play jointly
05:51<Sleepingcap>join servers? Where would I see any kind of a server list
05:52<@planetmaker>take a guess
05:52<Elukka>multiplayer menu, make sure you have internet and not lan selected
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06:10<@peter1138>when QC is about marten & padma, it's early
06:10<@peter1138>when it's about AIs taking over the world...
06:10<@planetmaker>wasn't early really
06:10<@peter1138>not early, but not late :)
06:10<@planetmaker>it used to show up at midnight local time East Coast or so
06:10<@peter1138>it's a bit crazy that he doesn't have a few days worth drawn ahead of time
06:11<@planetmaker>one would think so. But nearly no web comic I know does so
06:11<@peter1138>userfriendly did, but that stopped ages ago
06:11<@peter1138>it's been reruns for years, heh
06:14<@planetmaker>I guess I didn't read it all
06:16<@planetmaker>the userfriendly
06:16<@planetmaker>I barely read that
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06:17<@peter1138>i used to, back in 2000
06:22<@peter1138>basically before it went all commercial, heh
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07:58<andythenorth>so..NoGo shouldn't (imho) be able to adjust newgrf vehicle climate availability or intro dates (messy nightmare)
07:58<andythenorth>but NoGo might want a hook to a 'buy new vehicle' event
07:58<andythenorth>and the ability to allow, or deny - with a message
07:59<andythenorth>further, maybe a patch for depots that would gray out vehicles that NoGo won't let you buy (sprite recolor)
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09:20<@Belugas>snow flakes this morning. would not stay. luckily :)
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09:54<RetiredNavyVet>anyone know if CargoDist for 1.1.4 is available and where?
09:55<@planetmaker>That makes no sense
09:55<@planetmaker>an 1.1.4 with cargodist wouldn't be an 1.1.4.
09:55<@planetmaker>Thus only the usual builds are available from the usual places
09:55<RetiredNavyVet>thought CargoDist was a mod for OpenTTD?
09:55<@planetmaker>it is.
09:56<@planetmaker>But it makes no sense to apply a game-changing mod to a stable version
09:56<@planetmaker>It's then incompatible. Thus no point to apply it to a stable version
09:56<@planetmaker>And... patches are always _source code_ patches
09:56<@planetmaker>in our community
09:57<@planetmaker>thus I advise you to visit the cargodist thread and look for a link to binaries
09:57<RetiredNavyVet>hmm, thanks...still learning the game; saw it mention in a video...
09:57<@planetmaker>well, yes, cargodist works. But patches just as well can be built to a development version of OpenTTD
09:58<@planetmaker> <-- has some cargodist version
09:59<@planetmaker>it's a full OpenTTD, thus just unzip it into a separate dir
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09:59<@planetmaker>No need to overwrite your 1.1.4 which you might have elsewhere
09:59<@planetmaker>you can use both versions along eachother
09:59<RetiredNavyVet>nice; looking at some of the AI's now...not sure if I need one or not
09:59<@planetmaker>depends what you want ;-)
10:00<RetiredNavyVet>well, no cheating or other advantages thats for sure
10:02<@planetmaker>None of the AI can do that
10:03<RetiredNavyVet>I want to keep the game vanilla but would no object to good enhancements that don't significantly change the gameplay
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10:04<@planetmaker><shameless plug>You can try OpenGFX+ Industries and OpenGFX+ Trains and OpenGFX+ Road vehicles. Maybe FISH and av8 NewGRFs
10:04<@planetmaker></shameless plug>
10:04<@Yexo>basically all of OpenGFX+
10:05<RetiredNavyVet>those are grahic sets?
10:05<@planetmaker>yeah, don't forget the airports... though you might be able to use them only with nightlies
10:05<@Yexo>note that "graphic sets" change more than only graphics
10:05<@planetmaker>grf means graphics ressource file. They can change way more than graphics
10:05<@Yexo>but in the case of OpenGFX+ those other changes are minor and just general gameplay improvements
10:05<@planetmaker>The mentioned ones e.g. allow you to choose the indutries to play with and give your vehicles refit capabilities
10:06<RetiredNavyVet> gald I found OpenTTD!
10:06<@planetmaker>The OpenGFX+ goal is to "iron out" those edges which base sets can hardly overcome without changing the game significantly
10:08<RetiredNavyVet>wow, tons of them...have some reading to do :)
10:08<@planetmaker>yes. Many vehicle sets give you 'realistic' vehicles
10:09<Elukka>that cargodist version is really old
10:09<Elukka>i think there's a more recent one in the thread
10:09<RetiredNavyVet>found a 1.1.3 version of it
10:10<Elukka>yup, here's a newer one
10:11<Elukka>okay there's probably an even newer one there
10:14<@peter1138>^ night mode!
10:15<@peter1138>pretty useless for play though :)
10:19<RetiredNavyVet>looks like Minecraft, Skyrim, and Skyward Sword won't beet getting much play time X)
10:19<RetiredNavyVet>...from me
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10:35<RetiredNavyVet>hmmm, what year does the game "end"?
10:35<+glx>there's no real end, but you get engame screen in 2050
10:35<+glx>(or something near that)
10:36<RetiredNavyVet>ty; man, keep running out of moeny early :( fun though!
10:37<+glx>coal lines are money maker
10:37<RetiredNavyVet>does installed content automatically update?
10:37<RetiredNavyVet>...e.g. FISH
10:37<+glx>no you need to update them
10:38<RetiredNavyVet>tried starting with airplanes...nope; will try coal mines next :)
10:38<RetiredNavyVet>efficient use of rail lines is gonna take a bit to figure out, not to mention signals X)
10:38<+glx>you can start with one track per train
10:38<+glx>then learn signals :)
10:41<Elukka>when you do start playing around with signals, ignore all other types besides path signals
10:41<Elukka>they're easier and better than normal ones, really the different types only have niche uses you might care about much later
10:41<RetiredNavyVet>have been watching some YT vids...I have much to learn
10:41<+glx>indeed, and there's only one rule to remember with path signal: place them only where a train can safely wait
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10:42<RetiredNavyVet>so I don't need signals all the way down a track as I see in some videos?
10:43<+glx>that's for really complex networks :)
10:44<+glx>you can always put block signals on long lines to allow more trains on them
10:45<RetiredNavyVet>ahhhh, thats probably what I'm seeing...makes sense
10:47<RetiredNavyVet>woot, big UI...i can read the screens!
10:47<+glx>characters are too small ?
10:48<RetiredNavyVet>with the default options some of the text is hard to read for me
10:49<RetiredNavyVet>oooh, ty!
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10:59<RetiredNavyVet>added OpenGFX+ Trains but don't see them in the available trains list; the mod is active
10:59<RetiredNavyVet>...or do others become available as time goes by?
11:00<@planetmaker>RetiredNavyVet, the trains don't look different. The wagons might. They will allow to refit to different cargos
11:00<@planetmaker>you didn't want changes, did you? :-)
11:01<RetiredNavyVet>ty; some new art is good :)
11:01<@planetmaker>e.g. passenger wagons will match the engine they're attached to for the multiple units
11:01<RetiredNavyVet>ahhh, I see
11:01<@planetmaker>you'll have better cargo sprites
11:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23442 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Fix [FS#4511]: document that some video card drivers have trouble going to 8bpp mode
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11:25<RetiredNavyVet>hmm, is it better to start by getting close cities linked by buses, or jump into trains between resources?
11:26<RetiredNavyVet>I'm playing on a 256*256 map at medium difficulty to learn the rules :)
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11:51<Sacro>the only rule is there are no rules
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12:33<frosch123>hmm, my internet provider offers me more for less money... do i trust him?
12:34<SpComb>with a 36 month contract?
12:34<@planetmaker>frosch123: the real question is: do you need it?
12:34<@planetmaker>does it matter?
12:34<frosch123>24 months, but i would not care about that
12:35*planetmaker got like all telephone stuff he needs, including mobile for 20€ / month
12:35<frosch123>yeah, that's about the offer i got now :p
12:36<__ln__>what kind of speeds are available for that price?
12:36<@planetmaker>2MBit is what I got
12:36<@planetmaker>suffices for me
12:37<frosch123>internet flat 7200 kBit/s; phone + mobile with a limit on the time per month (which i will never reach)
12:37<frosch123>100 minutes mobile/phone
12:37<frosch123>i think i never manager to make more than 30 minutes in a month :p
12:37<@planetmaker>sounds like a deal I'd accept then, if you can live with 24 months
12:38<@planetmaker>which provider?
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12:38*SpComb did 21 minutes of talk time over the three summer months
12:38<SpComb>but my contract doesn't include any free hours
12:38<frosch123>well, in the first 24 month it is even only 10€/month, and i get a new cellphone
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12:38<SpComb>it's just 0.069€/min
12:38<frosch123>planetmaker: 1&1 like before
12:38*__ln__ pays 36,90€/month for 24Mbit ADSL (admittedly the actual speed is ~14Mb/s due to long wires)
12:38<@planetmaker>right. That's why it's very similar to what I have :-P
12:40<@planetmaker>I guess they're really only interested in you staying with them for 24 more months
12:42<@planetmaker>and important might be: it's the same provider. Thus nothing can go wrong for the transition. Or so one should think...
12:51<frosch123>ah, i only get the cellphone if i pay 20 € from the beginning
12:52<__ln__>do DSL subscriptions have daily/monthly gigabyte limits?
12:53<frosch123>oh, and the internet has a limit of 500MB/month :o
12:54<frosch123>i will clearly hit that limit
12:55<__ln__>that's the mobile limit?
12:55<frosch123>no, normal internet, not mobile
12:55<__ln__>wtf, 500MB?? do they mean GB?
12:56<__ln__>or 500MB/day?
12:56<frosch123>the advertisement said unlimited, the details say 500MB/month
12:56<frosch123>then 64 kBit/s, i.e. no internet at all :p
12:57<frosch123>hmm, some other document says, it's the mobile internet limit
12:58<frosch123>yawn... these documents are quite inconsistent :p
13:01<frosch123>oh, i guess my assumptions were totally wrong from the beginning. it seems to be only a mobile thingie, no normal internet at all. so it is an add-on, no replacement :o
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13:02<frosch123>yeah, with that everything makes sense; though it is no longer interesting for me :p
13:05<@planetmaker>he :-)
13:05*planetmaker -> away for evening. See you tomorrow or (much) later
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13:21<Arie->I have an appointment in 10 minutes so no time to look for svn changes or on flyspray
13:22<Arie->but in r23440
13:22<Arie->while in the scenario editor
13:22<Arie->i had a part of sea water, and than a ramp north east and than a canal northeast
13:23<Arie->while building a lock openttd crashes
13:23<Arie->*building a lock on the ramp
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13:24<andythenorth>locks :P
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13:25<frosch123>yeah, building locks in se crashes :p
13:25<frosch123>ah, it tries to count the lock for infrastructure numbers
13:25<frosch123>but in se it is not owned by a company
13:41<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23443 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23413): Building of locks in SE failed.
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23444 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/urdu.txt:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: urdu - 92 changes by haider
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14:06<andythenorth>seems my site is back up
14:06<andythenorth>how interestink
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14:44<nicfer>how can I checkout an old openttd svn revision?
14:44<@Alberth>checkout can take a -r REV option
14:44<nicfer>svn checkout svn:// -r 11111
14:44<nicfer>like that?
14:45<nicfer>being 11111 the wanted rev
14:45<@Alberth>usually options are before the arguments, so svn checkout -r 11111 svn://
14:46<@Alberth>or if you already have a working copy, you can run svn update -r xyz
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14:47<nicfer>I'm trying to compile this patch for windows
14:47<@Alberth>2009 :)
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14:59<@Belugas>lol... a patch in grf format!!! that was a good one :D Digging may give interesting results
15:01<nicfer>I was trying to make a binary out of that last diff but I got a weird error
15:01<nicfer>while compiling
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15:02<@Alberth>c++ compilers also change over time :)
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15:09<nicfer>changing topic, I'm trying to make a newgrf that moves monorail trains to maglev (or better viceversa, since I hate maglev graphics), tweaks some trains speed, capacity and smaller things, and maybe adds some new MUs
15:11<nicfer>the question is, how can I make that without having to define sprites in nml? (I'm going to reuse sprites for them for now)
15:20<nicfer>or is there an specific channel for graphics?
15:21<frosch123>try defining monorail/maglev compatible to each other
15:21<@Alberth>in the world, I am quite sure some channels are used for discussing graphics as sole topics :)
15:22<@Alberth>but newgrfs can also be discussed here :)
15:26<@Belugas>definitively going along with frosch123 on the properties
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15:27<nicfer>well, I don't know if there's already a newgrf that does such things
15:28<@Alberth>euhm, weren't you "..I'm trying to make a newgrf.." ?
15:29<frosch123>i would expect there is some grf which changes the default maglev engines into monorail engines
15:29<frosch123>railtype newgrfs are newer though, so there is not much around
15:32<@Belugas>you have some documentation with you on nml, nicfer?
15:33<@Belugas>or you WANT TO make a grf and are in fact in the very early stages, i.e.: wishing to?
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15:35<nicfer>I was trying to make one since most of the grfs that do similar things have too much variety on trains and most of them are too redundant
15:35<nicfer>and also wanted to learn some nml
15:36<@Belugas> <-- might help a lot
15:37<nicfer>can I make a newgrf without graphics in nml? (only changing properties)
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15:38<Hirundo>nicfer: Yes, that's possible
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15:42<nicfer>speaking better, can I define instead of a new train modify an existing one?
15:42<Hirundo>Yes, you can do that by providing the ID of the existing train
15:43<Hirundo>item(FEAT_TRAINS, your_name, <id>)
15:43<Hirundo>IDs are located here:
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16:01<@Alberth>evenink Wolf01
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16:02<@Belugas>sir Wolf01 :)
16:09<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23445 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Fix [FS#4715]: document behaviour with aircraft/ships poking outside of the depot before getting hidden
16:10<andythenorth>^ they're just cautious :P
16:10<Wolf01>they should duck
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16:20*andythenorth plays the game
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16:33<andythenorth>with YAIM, ships are definitely ftw
16:34<frosch123>also with canals? or only with sea/rivers?
16:35<andythenorth>mostly sea / rivers
16:35<andythenorth>I can't afford to build locks :P
16:36<andythenorth>even with my new 'improved' canal costs, they're still terrifyingly expensive :P
16:36<frosch123>don't locks have a separate cost multiplier?
16:38<andythenorth>I fixed them good :P
16:39<andythenorth>but it's early in my game, and I'm playing 'mountainous'
16:39<andythenorth>and I have to use a lot of extra canal tiles because I can't overbuild rapids :P
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16:45<Arie->sorry for my kind of rude bugreport earlier this evening regarding locks
16:45<Arie->but I see a commit three hours ago
16:45<Arie->so I guess it's been fixed
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16:54<nicfer>so, I've starting my first grf by improving the 'Dash' DMU
16:55<nicfer>now it has a max speed of 144 km/h and is available in 1971
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16:58<nicfer>now, how are modified wagons?
16:59-!-Eddi|zuHause3 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
17:01<nicfer>I want to make passenger ones powered for MUs
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>there's a callback for that
17:07<andythenorth>my trams aren't loading
17:07<andythenorth>wonder why
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17:10<andythenorth>loading speed wasn't set :P
17:11<andythenorth>I didn't know it had to be set, I thought it defaulted to 5
17:11<andythenorth>prop 07 RVs - " The default is 5 for trains and road vehicles"
17:12<andythenorth>perhaps trams aren't treated as road vehicles in this context
17:13<@Yexo>andythenorth: there is only a default for "known" ids
17:13<@Yexo>as soon as you go over the default ids there are no defaults at all
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17:23<andythenorth>shame dock sprites can't show cargo waiting
17:29<@Terkhen>good night
17:29<nicfer>I can't find the callback to set powered wagons for MUs
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17:43<nicfer>better said, I need to make passenger carriages work as powered for MUs
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18:43<Sacro> Pass Uckfield 5E71 WTT SN Selhurst T&r.s.m.d Pass 0003
18:43<Sacro>0006 0006 London Bridge 2Y77 WTT SN 5 Caterham 0006 0006½
18:43<Sacro>Pass London Victoria 2L74 WTT SN 5 Oxted Pass 0012
18:43<Sacro>0017 0016½ London Victoria 2P51 WTT SN 5 Tattenham Corner 0017 0017
18:43<Sacro>Pass East Grinstead 5L70 WTT SN London Victoria Pass 0019
18:43<Sacro>Pass Tattenham Corner 5G49 WTT SN Selhurst T&r.s.m.d Pass 0021
18:43<Sacro>Pass Tonbridge 5S47 WTT SN Streatham Hill Shed Pass 0023
18:43<Sacro>Pass London Victoria 1H66 WTT SN Worthing Pass 0026
18:43<Sacro>Pass Caterham 5G05 WTT SN Selhurst T&r.s.m.d Pass 0027
18:43<Sacro>Pass London Bridge 2T79 WTT FC 4 Three Bridges Pass 0029½
18:43<__ln__>Sacro: you're doing it wrong
18:43<Sacro>whoops :D
18:43<Sacro>also, I hear yogscast has taken the site down
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18:45<TrueBrain>Sacro: just lies, no worries :)
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18:58<TrueBrain>owh, lol, it seems Yogscast really is claiming they brought down our website; I guess I should stop fiddling with it before they come up with more farytails :D
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18:59<TrueBrain>@calc 250000 / 60 / 60
18:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 69.4444444444
18:59<TrueBrain>@calc 25000 / 60 / 60
18:59<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 6.94444444444
19:00<TrueBrain>some fun stats: a normal EU night for us is 7 hits per second on our httpd; last hour it was 70 hits/s :P
19:00<TrueBrain>it has been 250+ hits/s today :) Seems to not be even close to the max we can serve .. /me is happy :)
19:01<TrueBrain>recalibrated the balancer today, to serve binaries to the US people more locally; seems to work fine too now :)
19:01<@planetmaker>zernebok getting more traffic, eh?
19:02<TrueBrain>see his post, but his bandwidth was tenfolded of normal yesterday :)
19:02<TrueBrain>I am really happy with that :D
19:03<@planetmaker>which post?
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19:04<TrueBrain>on the yogscast thread
19:04<@planetmaker>got a link?
19:06<@planetmaker>oh, missed that totally. ty
19:08<TrueBrain>we are collecting a bit of stats there :)
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22:56<Eddi|zuHause>Assertion error in File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nml/", line 34, in pop
22:57<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound good
23:00<Eddi|zuHause>it might be a) helpful to give the actual assertion which failed, and b) turn that into a real error?
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---Logclosed Thu Dec 08 00:00:57 2011