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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-08

---Logopened Thu Dec 08 00:00:57 2011
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00:04<uppy>Hey Everyone I have a train that goes into the station but isnt delivering his cargo. It just stop with one or two trains bits outside the station then reverses
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00:29<RetiredNavyVet>any known bugs with trucks failing to load iron ore?
00:30<RetiredNavyVet>...have a very short run between mine and mill but trucks just won't load any ore at all
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03:00<@planetmaker>Lachie: <-- that's the same as the numbers for real sprites in NFO
03:01<@planetmaker>you simply specify where the sprite is located in your graphics file. upper left coordinate, width, height and offsets in x and y direction.
03:02<Lachie>from the point of view of using templates though, I'm assuming the different spritesets using that template have to be set up in exactly the same way?
03:02<@planetmaker>using a template for real sprites becomes interesting as soon as you have more than one piece of graphics which are arranged in a similar fashion
03:03<@planetmaker>So that you can express their relative positions or alignment once - by means of a template. And then you use the template for the real sprites instead of specifying everything over and over.
03:04<@planetmaker>i.e. if you have N engines which are all in identical files (as in the tutorial example ) or in one file below eachother, you define a template like
03:05<@planetmaker>template tmpl_trains(x, y) = { [0, 0, 64, 31, -31, 0, NOCROP] ... }
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03:05<Lachie>okay, I understand now.
03:05<@planetmaker>and then you use tmpl_trains(2, 10) where needed (where 2 and 10) are some offsets
03:07<Lachie>okay, I get it now. That really does make it that much easier.
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03:14<Lachie>now, are there any templates for setting up train sprites in the correct way, or only the tram/RV ones on the wiki?
03:16<@planetmaker>Lachie: what is "the correct way"?
03:17<@planetmaker>of course existing train sets for sure contain templates. They might use different graphics arrangement in the graphics files than you have. What might be interesting is the alignment which could be taken over
03:17<@planetmaker>Look at OpenGFX, OpenGFX+Trains or DutchSet sources. All three contain templates for trains.
03:19<@planetmaker>Some of Pikka's alignment templates are found in NML-form in OpenGFX+Trains. FooBar finds them too cryptic in how I implemented them ;-) He might be right
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03:20<@planetmaker>a jack-of-all-trades template attempt is not always 'best' ;-)
03:21<@Terkhen>good morning
03:21<@planetmaker>hi Terkhen
03:23<Lachie>I assume the file I'm looking at is templates_sprites.pnml?
03:24<@planetmaker>sounds like a name I used
03:25<Lachie>now, the only templates in there are marked as "wagon" templates, are these appropriate for a locomotive?
03:27<@planetmaker>in principle yes. Some engines, esp. the steam ones, might want a bit higher sprites possibly
03:27<@planetmaker>but generally for 8/8 length vehicles I see no difference in the needed alignment
03:27<@planetmaker>I have there engine templates, too ;-)
03:28<@planetmaker>I think the main reason to have these two template categories there is the different arrangement in the graphics files, though
03:28<@planetmaker>it's not an alignment difference
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03:33<Lachie>ah yes, engine templates. excellent.
03:36<Lachie>but there's only templates for an 8/8 engine, correct?
03:36<@planetmaker>the turboengine template is 7/8
03:37<Lachie>but none shorter?
03:38<Lachie>(just querying, I'm happy to give it a go myself)
03:39<@planetmaker>not in my NewGRFs so far, I'm afraid. FooBar has some in the DutchTrains:
03:40<@planetmaker>hm... I wonder.... maybe CETS has
03:41<@planetmaker>not in an easy way it seems
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03:54<@peter1138>QC in NSFW shcoker
03:56<@planetmaker>questionable :-P
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05:20<lugo>if anyone complains about desync-issues again, please ask them if all clients use binaries specifically build for their system. Last time i had problems, i was distributing my 32bit-bundle not knowing some clients hat 64-bit systems..
05:22<@planetmaker>if the binary runs, it runs and is valid
05:22<@planetmaker>that clearly is not a solution to avoid desyncs. And not the cause
05:22<lugo>though, those clients didn't receive a warning that they were using a "wrong" binary. i.e.: "This is a 32-bit binary, but your system has ??-bit, continue yes/no"
05:22<@planetmaker>if it runs, it runs and is not wrong
05:23<@planetmaker>wrong binaries simply don't run
05:23<lugo>well the desyncs were gone as soon as they got their specific binaries....
05:23<lugo>maybe coincidence...
05:23<@planetmaker>they connected anew. Thus new game. New luck
05:24<@planetmaker>99.5% chance that it's coincidence. But not the cause. Maybe it symptoms easier
05:24<@planetmaker>like improper variable size declarations
05:25<@planetmaker>in any case "use the proper binary" is not the solution.
05:25<@planetmaker>As at least one of the binaries then needs fixing
05:25<@planetmaker>probably the result then only was, that they all used the same arch as the server
05:27<lugo>server is 32 bit, 2 clients 32-bit, 2 clients 64-bit, the 64-bitters kept desyncing, til they got their specific binary - just to sum up
05:31<lugo>btw, yaay for yaim in trunk! it's awesome!
05:32<Noldo>yet another what?
05:32<@planetmaker>there's no 64-bit blitter
05:32<@planetmaker>hm... added an 'l' :-)
05:33<Noldo>I did that too at first reading
05:44<@blathijs>planetmaker: Actually, you added 'it bl'
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06:12<TrueBrain>lugo: so when the 64bit users were using the 32bit client, it desynced, and when they changed to 64bit client they no longer did? On a vanilla OpenTTD? (unmodified)
06:13<@planetmaker>no no, chillpp, iirc
06:14<TrueBrain>ah; then I don't care :) (sorry)
06:15<TrueBrain>I am surprised they don't desync much more often tbh; if past is any indication, patchpacks often desync a lot due to unstable patches used. Clearly chillcore does a better job than others did, but it is to be expected at least 1 patch is unstable :)
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06:28<Rubidium>lugo: what version of OpenTTD was desyncing?
06:29<Rubidium>lugo: and a 32bits binary on 64bits CPU cannot desync when the 32bits binary on a 32bits CPU does not (under the exact same circumstances), unless the CPU is faulty
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07:03<lugo>Rubidium: r23440; "cannot desync when the 32bits binary on a 32bits CPU does not" < how do you mean that? All clients should have desynced at the same time?
07:05<lugo>well we had 2 to 3 desyncs from the 64-bit-clients, than the server crashed, and than i realized they were using "incorrect" binaries
07:05<lugo>i should have the crashlog..
07:07<lugo>is there a scp-version of consolefish yet? :D
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07:07<@peter1138>a server crash might tell you something is not right with it ;)
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07:09<lugo>TrueBrain: vanilla, with ~25 newgrfs, yep that's what happened..
07:10<TrueBrain>it wasn't chillpp?
07:10<lugo>well i thought i'd spare me some troubling not using the pack :)
07:10<@planetmaker>if vanilla openttd crashes... then please make a bug report with the crash files
07:10<TrueBrain>desyncs dont crash planetmaker ;)
07:11<TrueBrain>lugo: that is very unusual ... a 32bit app should run identical on a 32bit system as 64bit system ... odd
07:11<@planetmaker>no. But I read server crash
07:11<@planetmaker>"...than the server crashed..."
07:11<TrueBrain>planetmaker: somehow I fail to read that :P /me rereads for the 5th time :)
07:11<@planetmaker>desync on trunk, yes. Doesn't crash. Is a pain
07:11<TrueBrain>ah, there :P
07:12<@planetmaker>Brought us the coop stable server, though ;-)
07:12<@planetmaker>and is my main motivation to maintain that :-P
07:12<TrueBrain>hehe, those good old days :)
07:12<@planetmaker>yeah, post 1.0.0... :-)
07:12<TrueBrain>post 0.6.3 :P
07:12<@planetmaker>but ... the coop welcome server only appeared after 1.0.0. Or exactly then
07:13<@planetmaker>And cought 4? 5? desyncs till 1.0.2 or so
07:13<TrueBrain>I remember I fixed a douzen of desyncs with coop when they just started :P
07:13<TrueBrain>I remember one specificly, newgrf that had random data initialized ...
07:13<TrueBrain>on each client different :P
07:20<@peter1138>mind you back then we didn't really support newgrf
07:20<TrueBrain>the parts we implemented were :P
07:20<lugo>sooo.. just putting up crash.log and crash.sav and a little summary of my rant would qualify as a bugreport?
07:20<TrueBrain>and I only remember it because it was the only newgrf code I ever debugged :P
07:21<@peter1138>it was basically "support for one particular vehicle set" :p
07:21<@peter1138>back when pause-on-join was a separate patch
07:21<TrueBrain>lugo: depends on the quality of the rant ... as in, rather no rant and just a nice summary ;)
07:21<@peter1138>i guess openttdcoop might've been a different group of people back then
07:26<@peter1138>hmm, right, file_slot/file_pos implies it's in a grf file currently
07:28<Arkabzol>I might be butting in, but I'm curious about the spawn behaviour of oil rigs and wondered if/where I could read about it since the wiki doesn't say much.
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07:28<Arkabzol>Spawn behaviour in general would be interesting, actually.
07:30<appe>you guys are mostly not english
07:31<appe>but most of you speak and spell it fantasticly good
07:31<appe>thus, i have a question
07:31<appe>in swedish, i often refer to "things that wasnt yesterday"
07:31<appe>as in, "oh look, 90's porn. that wasnt yesterday!"
07:32<appe>does that work in english?
07:32<@peter1138>not really
07:32<@peter1138>i mean, it's factually correct, but...
07:32<@peter1138>(also, wasn't)
07:33<TrueBrain>you sound like an old men if you say that :D
07:33<appe>maybe i am
07:33<appe>you runt
07:33<TrueBrain>(or in your case: when, I guess)
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08:08<lugo>another problem i'm having...
08:08<lugo>i tried connecting to said server from a client, through Multiplayer-GUI
08:09<lugo>it wasn't in the list of online games, but that would have been too good to begin with ;)
08:10<lugo>so no problem i say, just add the ip:port via 'add server'
08:10<lugo>no dice..
08:10<lugo>but when starting openttd with a command switch, i.e. openttd.exe -n ip:port, it would connect just fine
08:11<TrueBrain>@openttd port
08:11<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
08:11<TrueBrain>mind the UDP part
08:12<lugo>mmmh, i thought i did put both UDP/TCP through, gotta double check that, thanks
08:12<TrueBrain>the -n option bypasses all UDP communications, where the GUI requires it
08:12<lugo>ah, that makes sense then
08:13<TrueBrain>it would also mean you are not listed on the masterserver list
08:14<TrueBrain>which the server would have told you about too if I am not mistaken :)
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09:19<@planetmaker>hi Belugas
09:19<@Belugas>sir planetmaker :)
09:23<@Terkhen>hi Belugas
09:28<@Belugas>sir Terkhen :)
09:28<@Belugas>Let it Snow, Let it Snow!
09:50<@peter1138>^ i need that firmware :S
09:58<SpComb>but it's not freee enough!
09:59<@peter1138>^ looked free back then o_O
10:00<SpComb>GPL'd binary firmware?
10:00<@peter1138>i can't bring the interfaces up :(
10:00<SpComb>or someone just understood the `static const u32 firmware_foo[]` bit wrong
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10:01<SpComb>peter1138: didn't they add the firmware .bin?
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: what you mean is open, not free
10:02<@peter1138>SpComb, exactly
10:03<SpComb>peter1138: well, 'starfire/gfp_rx.bin' :)
10:04<SpComb>and /lib/firmware, I assume
10:04<@peter1138>[ 549.225121] starfire 0000:0b:04.0: firmware: requesting adaptec/starfire_rx.bin
10:04<@peter1138>[ 549.228439] starfire: Failed to load firmware "adaptec/starfire_rx.bin"
10:04<@peter1138>different name...
10:04<SpComb>blame debian
10:05<@peter1138>that is 2008, so it's a different kernel version
10:05<SpComb>that has firmware/adaptec/starfire_rx.bin.ihex
10:07<SpComb>but funny that the debian maintainer didn't add it in
10:07<@peter1138>bah, i'll complain to his wife, that'll solve it
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11:11<@Yexo>lol, P1SIM is delayed by another year yet again
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>we should nominate DBSetXL for a vapourware award (since it had announced a release date, which passed)
11:20<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: it's still no 11 years 11 months and 11 days since OpenTTD 1.1.1 (or 11.11.11)
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11:26<@peter1138>^ bit spammy :P
11:27<@peter1138>^ hah!
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12:28<Eddi|zuHause>how do i "restore" a file in mercurial that was deleted in a previous commit?
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12:32<@planetmaker>rebase the current version on the previous one, maybe with --detach?
12:32<@planetmaker>works only in hg 2.0.x
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12:39<@Yexo>hg cat some/file.txt -r old_rev > some/file.txt ?
12:39<@Yexo>bit of a workaround though
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12:45<@planetmaker>alternatively commit onto the previous version. And the merge the two heads, keeping the old file in the merge
12:45<SpComb>`hg revert -r ... foo/...` ?
12:46<@planetmaker>that only works when you've not committed
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12:46<SpComb>no, that's `hg revert foo/...`
12:46<SpComb>"Using the -r/--rev option, revert the given files or directories to their contents as of a specific revision"
12:47<SpComb>sounds right
12:47<@planetmaker>I see. Interesting. yes
12:47<SpComb>haven't tried it, mind
12:47<SpComb>it's a little confusing after using `svn revert`
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12:52<@peter1138>hg smells
12:52<@peter1138>so yeh
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12:57<Hexxeh>Compiling OpenTTD using --os=unix, but it's still trying to link in OSX frameworks, is there some other option I need to set to cross-compile to Linux?
12:57<Hexxeh>Well, technically not Linux, Native Client, but close enough.
12:57<Rubidium>I guess you need to pass the right gcc as well
12:57<@planetmaker>errm... cross-compiling is never a task to just set a flag and be done
12:57<Hexxeh>Done that yeah
12:57<@planetmaker>and right libs
12:58<@planetmaker>and right arch
12:58<Rubidium>oh, and --host?
12:58<Hexxeh>It's compiling just fine using the native client toolchain, just fails at link because it's trying to link OSX frameworks that don't exist on there
12:58<Hexxeh>is host required in this case?
12:58<@planetmaker>missing linker flags?
12:59<Hexxeh>./configure --without-lzma --without-liblzo2 --endian=LE --host=x86_64-nacl --os=unix --disable-network --enable-static --with-zlib=/Developer/nacl-sdk/src/toolchain/mac_x86_newlib/x86_64-nacl/usr/lib/libz.a
12:59<Hexxeh>fails at linking with x86_64-nacl-g++: ApplicationServices: No such file or directory
12:59<Hexxeh>ApplicationServices is an OSX framework it shouldn't be trying to link at all
13:00<Rubidium>freetype or libpng could be providing that
13:01<Rubidium>could you post the config.log somewhere?
13:01<Hexxeh>yeah sure, one moment
13:01<TrueBrain>--without-libpng (or --without-png?) might help? :)
13:02<@planetmaker>I wonder thought whether w/o libpng the game will be fun ;-)
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13:03<Hexxeh>kinda assumed libpng was pretty essential ;)
13:03<@Terkhen>just for screenshots / heightmaps IIRC
13:03<Rubidium>not as essential for multiplayer than lzma
13:03<TrueBrain>problem is that it most likely pulls in OSX stuff
13:03<@planetmaker>Hexxeh: your compiler is detected as osx' gcc
13:03<@planetmaker> returned i686-apple-darwin10
13:03<Hexxeh>planetmaker: any flag to override it?
13:04<Rubidium>Hexxeh: ignore planetmaker ;)
13:04<TrueBrain>owh, it seems SDL pulls it in
13:04<Rubidium>what he saw what the local compiler used for strgen
13:04<TrueBrain>as does libpng :)
13:04<Hexxeh>i'll admit, i've never compiled openttd from source before, but i was playing openttd on my chromebook earlier today, thought it'd be much better if it ran under native client so i'm gonna have a crack at porting it
13:04<TrueBrain>and freetype :)
13:04<Rubidium>the host compiler (for building OpenTTD) is x86_64-nacl-g..
13:05<@planetmaker>but Rubidium is right as usual ;-) Didn't we just establish that he's a smart guy? :-)
13:06<Rubidium>but it is definitely picking up a lot of the OS X libraries
13:06<TrueBrain>you will have to overwrite all of them manually
13:06<TrueBrain>libpng-config, sdl-config, freetype-config all return OSX stuff
13:07<TrueBrain>Hexxeh: at the bottom of the file you just showed, it says: LDFLAGS, then a long line. You have to fiddle as lng till all the OSX deps are gone there I guess :)
13:08<Rubidium>I'd advise a chroot/jail with only the gcc/g++ of the local operating system and the libraries and gcc of the operating system you're cross compiling to
13:08<Hexxeh>surely there's a better way than that?
13:08<Hexxeh>that seems like sidestepping the issue rather than fixing it
13:08<@planetmaker>the LDFLAGs contain all the frameworks
13:08<Rubidium>and you'd definitely need sdl or allegro if you want to use it for something else than a dedicated server
13:09<TrueBrain>Hexxeh: the 'bug' to fix is in your system :)
13:09<Hexxeh>Rubidium: SDL lib is available
13:09<Rubidium>Hexxeh: there is, but that means --with-libpng=/path/to/the/right/libpng-config
13:09<Rubidium>for all libraries
13:09<Hexxeh>that works
13:09<Hexxeh>i'll do that then
13:09<Rubidium>Hexxeh: but the SDL library that gets picked up is an OSX SDL, or at least the sdl-config is an OSX one
13:09<TrueBrain>or point to the right library yourself, but yeah, like said: you have to set them all manually :)
13:10<@planetmaker>might be much easier to compile natively ;-)
13:10<TrueBrain>or build a valid jail :)
13:10<TrueBrain>that is how we crosscompile :)
13:10<Rubidium>I'm doing my DOS builds in a jail just because it's much better contained and won't pick up foreign libraries ;)
13:11<TrueBrain>for crosscompiling you have to make sure all native libraries, configs and headers are surpressed, and the ones for which you are cross compiling are used :)
13:12<TrueBrain>(which is a bitch, and which is why crosscompiling is 'harder' than just compiling for a native system :))
13:12<Rubidium>too bad that pkg-config and friends still don't have proper cross-compiling (and multiarch) support
13:12<@planetmaker> <-- Rubidium
13:13<@planetmaker>compiles. I haven't yet extensively tested
13:13<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23446 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: move _cur_palette and it's related first/count dirty variables into a single structure
13:13<@planetmaker>but seems that AvailabilityMacros.h is included in the ApplicationServices.h
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13:18<Hexxeh>hmm, what's the minimum libs i need to provide paths for if i'm doing it this way? done libpng, zlib, freetype, sdl
13:18<Hexxeh>osx libs are still getting pulled in
13:18<Rubidium>*all* libraries
13:19<Rubidium>either give it the path to the config, or --without-library
13:19<@planetmaker>--without-XXX for all XXX which can be found OSX
13:19<Rubidium>which is essentially everything ;)
13:21<Hexxeh>think I got it
13:25<Hexxeh>yep, just got nacl linker errors now, awesome
13:26<@planetmaker>great :-)
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13:36<@Belugas>while not not table.eof do
13:36<@planetmaker>but but but ... ;-)
13:36<@Belugas>only works when no data is avaiable
13:36<@Belugas>stupid me...
13:36<@Belugas>that's the trace of a phone call!
13:36<@peter1138>not not :D
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13:41<Eddi|zuHause>hey, double negative is an emphasis of a negation. don't they teach that?
13:41<Hexxeh>except now it's refusing to compile my glue code
13:42<Hexxeh>so the list of objs_cpp is generated at configure time?
13:42<Hexxeh>rather than being hardcoded into a makefile
13:43<+glx>it's hardcoded in makefile by configure :)
13:44<Hexxeh>yeah, that's what i mean
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23447 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: catalan - 42 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by Jacco011
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: polish - 26 changes by matma6
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 27 changes by Tucalipe
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: urdu - 150 changes by haider
13:56<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: someone forgot to tell the compilers that
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14:00<andythenorth>planetmaker: does ottd work with Lion (10.7)?
14:00<andythenorth>I assumed not
14:00<andythenorth>most things don't apparently :P
14:01<@planetmaker>andythenorth: last time I tried, it works
14:01<@Terkhen>yes, it seems that trying is a required step for knowing if something works or not :)
14:02<@planetmaker>not like it's really supported big time, but yes
14:02<@planetmaker>it has a few open issues wrt that which neither I nor anyone else addressed so far
14:03<andythenorth>everyone I know who tried it has downgraded from Lion
14:03<andythenorth>the sample size is admittedly small
14:04<@Terkhen>heh, so it is like windows vista?
14:05<andythenorth>10.6 could be the last OS X I ever use.
14:05<andythenorth>but probably I'll end up upgrading :P
14:05<andythenorth>they get you like that
14:06<@Terkhen>you can always jump versions if one is bad
14:06<@planetmaker>I didn't downgrade really. But I didn't swap the HDDs to make the 10.7 my primary system
14:06<@planetmaker>but from what I saw it's not bad.
14:06<@planetmaker>I was mostly lazy
14:09<andythenorth>I've become one of those people who resents change :(
14:09<andythenorth>like those guys who thought the sky had fallen when OS X replaced OS 9
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14:33<Rubidium>andythenorth: it's at least not officially supported ;)
14:34<andythenorth>If I use it and I find no bugs, does it become officially supported? :P
14:34<andythenorth>I guess not :P
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14:37<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23448 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: keep a local copy of the palette in the 32bpp animated blitter so changes of the palette data during the game don't influence drawing (with SDL)
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>"NewGRF 'HEQS 1.1.0' returns wrong information, result of callback 0x0x14b2251 returns unknown and invalid result 0x0x23" <-- wth?
14:38<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: old version?
14:38<andythenorth>I made one that was broken
14:38<andythenorth>I think ottd got more strict about my broken cbs
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: still, the message is all wrong...
14:41<@peter1138>0x0x23 :D
14:41<@peter1138>your printf is adding 0x
14:41<andythenorth>use a different HEQS
14:41<andythenorth>makes your ottd bug get fixed :P
14:42<@peter1138>oh, it's not done with printf :)
14:42<andythenorth>tech levels, either they're fine, or stupid
14:42<andythenorth>I'm confused :P
14:42<@planetmaker>they don#t fit the game at all
14:43<frosch123>so, the 0x is too much :p
14:43<andythenorth>but a GS where a local authority prevents xyz until goal abc is met makes sense
14:43<frosch123>but 14b2251 is also a bit much
14:44<@peter1138>a parameter's going wrong somewhere
14:44<frosch123>oh, using wrong parameters
14:44<@peter1138>i guess that's the pointer to the grf's name
14:45<frosch123> <- likely something like that
14:47<@Alberth>looks ok
14:47<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23449 /trunk/src/lang/ (26 files): -Fix (r23140): Wrong parameters in error message.
14:48<frosch123>hmm, i did not check unfinished languages
14:48<frosch123>persian translated it :)
14:49<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23450 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/persian.txt: -Fix (r23449): Forgot unfinished languages.
14:51<@Alberth>I'd translate it too, how did they find out it was wrong?
14:52<@Alberth>it's not like the error happens every day :)
14:54<frosch123>now it says "Callback 0x23 returned unknown/invalid result 0xcb0"
14:55<frosch123>cb1 and cb2 are also in store :)
14:55<frosch123>does "cb" mean callback?
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14:56<Arkabzol>You know you're a greedy bastard when your transfer railroads go around a power station.
15:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23451 /trunk/src/video/sdl_v.cpp: -Codechange: [SDL] Move 32bpp-anim palette animation to the draw thread instead of the single threaded bit of the game loop. This causes a speedup of up to 15% when animation is turned on with the 32bpp-anim blitter
15:03<@Alberth>a callback returning a callback? :p
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15:36<@Yexo>the OpenTTD forum section is now above the general transport tycoon one, and still there are multiple people posting questions about openttd in there
15:37<@planetmaker>that's indeed very amazing
15:38<@planetmaker>I'd not have bet on that level of "intelligence"
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15:38<@planetmaker>But then... I learnt some new lessons on reading comprehension and attention span in the postings and e-mails from the last 72 hours or so
15:38<andythenorth>it's not intelligence
15:38<andythenorth>it's accuracy
15:38<@planetmaker>something I'd not have thought possible
15:38*andythenorth makes stupid dumb mistakes all the time
15:39<andythenorth>but /me can discuss n-dimensional non-euclidean hyperspaces with only a small amount of trouble
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15:40<@planetmaker>and it's one of 5
15:40<frosch123>the ttdp forum should be moved above the tt forums
15:40<@planetmaker>2 in forums. 3 via e-mail
15:40<frosch123>it annoys me that the 32bpp forum is more active :p
15:40<andythenorth>I liked this post:
15:40<andythenorth>"The first mistake most gameplay zealots make is thinking that the game should revolve around them. The second is believing that it already does"
15:41<andythenorth>and the problem with that is?
15:41*andythenorth qualifies on both counts
15:41<@planetmaker>yes, I liked that posting, too
15:42*andythenorth will now play the game some more
15:42<andythenorth>my game is probably quite different to most player's
15:48<Arkabzol>I like how the oil rigs "produce" passengers. It's like they're making babies.
15:53<andythenorth>water_cmd.cpp l361 - I take it my pony about locks overbuilding rapids won't be granted?
15:53<andythenorth>seems to be by design
15:57<andythenorth>can we make it an advanced setting?
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>"do not enforce realistic building"?
15:58<andythenorth>'make rivers more useful'
15:58<frosch123>"win after 5 minutes"
15:58<@planetmaker>"AI: play game for me [x]"
15:58<frosch123>the 5 could be a setting thougg
15:59<andythenorth>frosch123: I already won - I bought a coal train :P
15:59<frosch123>can nogo popup a query box "do you want to win now?" ?
15:59<@planetmaker>it could, I guess
15:59<andythenorth>you could set a timer
16:00<andythenorth>'win in 3 mins'
16:00<frosch123>there should be a gs where you can bribe the government to build a road/canal for you :p
16:00<andythenorth>so....I have to maintain my own patch queue to fix rivers? :(
16:01<frosch123>andy patchpack?
16:02<Elukka>hmm. from TTD's perspective you wouldn't see the upper fourth of the BR38's driving wheels
16:02<Elukka>might apply to some other locomotives too
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16:02<Elukka>or upper third depending on the angle
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: bug oberhümer?
16:03<Elukka>i'm not sure how it'd look
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>you never know unless you draw it
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: open wagon. oberhümer has introduced some stuff to copy the dutch set's use of the fire cycle colours for cargo recolouring (instead of the magic pink i proposed earlier)
16:04-!-Neon [] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
16:04<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: maybe you want to reconsider your drawings :)
16:05<@planetmaker>why now fire cycle?
16:05<Rubidium>that's a bad idea. How am I supposed to transport fire now?
16:05<@Belugas>with a torch?
16:05<@Belugas>a candle?
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: no, the "problem" is wagons made of fire transporting something else :)
16:06<@Alberth>Belugas: a 'sparks' train in toy land!
16:06<@planetmaker>indeed I see use for the fire palette
16:06<@Belugas>that'd be cool! instead of smoke, or bubble, you'll see sparkles!
16:07<@planetmaker>or a ghetto-style party waggon with burning oil barrels
16:07<@Alberth>a 'stars' mine would be nice too :)
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: maybe you want to start a ticket for discussing this?
16:07<@Yexo>what was the problem with magic pink?
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: from my point of view, it's easily changeable
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: no idea, he did this without asking
16:07<@planetmaker>I was until 2 minutes ago under the impression that the magic pink would be used as it's pointless colours anyway in other contexts
16:08<andythenorth>real men draw the load sprites
16:08<andythenorth>non of this recolouring nonsense
16:08<@Alberth>planetmaker: the only reason I can see for not being able to read the readme text is either they are too young to read, or they don't know english
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: we already have 25k sprites without anything drawn :p
16:09<andythenorth>where's the problem with that? :P
16:09<@Yexo>Alberth: but in both of those cases they have no business posting on the forums
16:09<@planetmaker>Alberth: and stop reading / quoting at the sentence before the answer to their question is written down?
16:10<Eddi|zuHause>ok... i'll start a ticket
16:10<@planetmaker>well, ok
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16:11<frosch123>still mountain rafting?
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16:13<andythenorth>so andypatchpack now contains:
16:13<andythenorth>- the rather elegant daylength solution by Eddi|zuHause
16:13<andythenorth>- fix locks
16:13<@Belugas>mine of stars... now that's quite an idea! andythenorth, next time you've got an empty page moment, you'l know what to do!
16:15<@Alberth>andy doesn't do toyland :(
16:15<@planetmaker> <-- Eddi|zuHause
16:16<@planetmaker>nice ticket number :-)
16:16<Rubidium>we're also almost at a nice revision number
16:17<Elukka>i really need to get some sprites done...
16:17<@planetmaker>oh, wrong speaker :-)
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: so why are we not having a party?
16:18<@planetmaker>did you organize one?
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: also, the livestock wagon was listed as length 4 in the table, while you drew a length 5 one
16:19<Elukka>hm. i assumed it was the same chassis as the goods wagon
16:20<Elukka>least that was the only type of prussian livestock wagon i could find pictures of
16:20<frosch123>Rubidium: we already have the nice number
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>it's the same as the A6 goods wagon, but the one used in the set is the A10 goods wagon
16:20<frosch123>just rotated left by one
16:21<Eddi|zuHause>hm, no. the same as the A1
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>A1: 8,1m, A6,6: 6m, A10: 9,1m, livestock: 8,2m
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>A1: 8,1m, A6: 6,6m, A10: 9,1m, livestock: 8,2m
16:24<@Belugas>Alberth: he does not play anyway, he just codes!
16:24<@Belugas>hem.. does he?
16:24<andythenorth>I play until I find something that needs changing
16:24<andythenorth>which is usually about 30 seconds
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: in, the raise in pop_global, shouldn't that be exception_unique?
16:25<andythenorth>I think the game is nearly done though
16:25<andythenorth>just needs locks fixing...
16:26<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: no
16:26<@Alberth>playing and finding bugs is quite common here :)
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>then i'm probably not understanding what the function does
16:26<@Yexo>pop_global() will fails if and only if pop() fails too
16:27<@Yexo>pop() gets a number, as soon as restore() is called that number will be available again
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16:27<@Yexo>pop_global() gets a number, but it won't become available after the next restore()
16:27<@Yexo>pop_unique() gets a number that has never been given out before via pop() or pop_global()
16:27<@Yexo>hi Linkandzelda
16:28<Linkandzelda>whats up
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16:29<@planetmaker>today I was greeted in another channel with "hello, what is your question" ;-)
16:30<Eddi|zuHause>"please state the nature of the medical emergency"?
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16:31<andythenorth>dunno why I try to follow rivers at all :P
16:32<Linkandzelda>hmm does anyone know what is the latest version for PSP?
16:32<Linkandzelda>and whether its still in active development
16:33<@planetmaker>yes and yes. But the answer to the underlaying question is "I don't" and "it's not" ;-)
16:33<Linkandzelda>hehe i expected as much
16:34<Linkandzelda>i just wnted to play online with it
16:34<@Yexo> <- that has a 0.5.3 version
16:34<@planetmaker>then it's definitely the wrong choice
16:34<@Yexo>no clue whether it works at all, but certainly not online
16:35<Linkandzelda>i see
16:35<Linkandzelda>hmm ok
16:35<Linkandzelda>and what about ipad or iphone? :)
16:35<Linkandzelda>any other mobile device versions?
16:35<@Yexo>there is a more recent version for that
16:35<@planetmaker>neither is officially supported, but ^
16:35<@Yexo>but it's not in the appstore due to apple's policy
16:36<Linkandzelda>oh damn apple
16:36<Rubidium>there's on in the android one I've heard
16:37<andythenorth>should make a browser version :P
16:37<frosch123> <- wow, up to date to 1.1.4
16:37<Elukka>Eddi|zuHause: there's a 5 lu "Verschlagwagen für Kleinvieh (Verbandsbauart)" on the tracking table
16:38<Elukka>my problem in general is most of this stuff is so obscure i can't just plug whatever is on the tracking table to google and expect to get detailed info on it
16:38<Linkandzelda>that looks awesome
16:38<Elukka>so i use the sites that've been linked, i google around and look for pictures of models if real ones aren't available
16:38<@planetmaker>I just wished those developers could be arsed to issue patches upstream
16:38<@planetmaker>but none does
16:39<Elukka>sometimes it might be slightly inaccurate, but i don't have any better sources of information
16:39<frosch123>planetmaker: the dev link results in an sdl port page
16:41<@planetmaker>hm, got the link? I don't find it
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: yes, i changed that number to fit the graphics for now
16:41<frosch123>all ports including the sdl are in one big git thingie
16:45<@planetmaker>seems so, yes
16:45<@planetmaker>might even be understandable
16:45<@planetmaker>it's then easy to pull the general UI fixes to each
16:45<@planetmaker>but... bad for any single game
16:46<frosch123>planetmaker: actually the openttd source is not in the git repo, just the patch
16:46<frosch123>which only contains stuff to make it compile, and changing some default settings
16:47<frosch123>so, it's basically an sdl port, while porting the games was kind of trivial .)
16:48<@planetmaker>yes, surprisingly small
16:49<frosch123>haha, i love the user reviews: 1/3 is 5 starts, 1/4 is 1 star; hardly intermediate ratings :p
16:49<frosch123>either it's great, or it is unplayable because of being too small :p
16:50<Linkandzelda>is there any reason why my company is worth £1 and my freinds is worth £146,000
16:50<Linkandzelda>yet we both make profits and have been playing the same amount of time
16:50<Linkandzelda>in a multiplay game
16:50<Rubidium>your cash + vehicle value - loan is less than 0
16:51<Linkandzelda>i see
16:51<Rubidium>the cash + vehicle value - loan of your friend is 146.000
16:51<frosch123>£1 value is the minmum, it cannot go negativ
16:51<Linkandzelda>i have 5 trains he has 10
16:51<Linkandzelda>i have 160,000 loan he has 180,000
16:51<Linkandzelda>it just seems like the difference cant be so great lol
16:52<@Alberth>he has twice the number of trains that you have atm
16:53<Rubidium>well, assume you have 160.000 worth of trains, then your friend has twice that. 160.000 - 160.000 = 0, 320.000 - 180.000 - 140.000
16:53<@planetmaker>an engine is 20k + wagons
16:53<Rubidium>the last - should've been an =
16:53<Linkandzelda>hmmm i seeee
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16:59<@planetmaker>good night
16:59<andythenorth>2 tile rivers might be....good?
17:04<Elukka>larger, wider rivers would be lovely
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17:13<appe>two months passed
17:13<appe>one tron ottd track completed.
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17:15<andythenorth>good night
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17:20<Linkandzelda>if i buy some shares in a company
17:20<Linkandzelda>do i recieve profits from them?
17:21<Rubidium>heffer_: (RH#)705565 is FS#4571, RH#698959 looks messed up; for some reason it couldn't open the title game. Also "new_mode" is "MP_STATION" (which is a tile type, not a mode). Besides that I've got not much of a clue what might've gone wrong
17:22<Rubidium>heffer_: in any case, I'd assume that the title game has been working so the real question is: what caused the load failure of the title game. However, the back trace gives no information about that whatsoever and the amount of reproduction data is quite small
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17:24<@Terkhen>good night
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17:32<Rubidium>Linkandzelda: no, but if the other company's value rises you can sell the shares at a higher price making a nice profit
17:32<__ln__>appe: url?
17:32<Linkandzelda>i hought that was the case, thanks
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17:52<appe>__ln__: not yet.
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18:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23452 /trunk/src/script/api/ (script_station.cpp script_station.hpp): -Codechange: document instead of writing to stderr that ScriptStation::GetCoverageRadius doesn't work for STATION_AIRPORT
18:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23453 /trunk/src/script/api/ (ai/ai_station.hpp.sq script_station.cpp script_station.hpp): -Add: [NoAI] AIStation.GetStationCoverageRadius(StationID)
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20:56<RetiredNavyVet>any idea why I can't pick up fruit (v1.1.4) with a refrigerated train car?
20:56<Eddi|zuHause>you refitted it to fruit?
20:57<RetiredNavyVet>its description say it can carry fruit...still need to refit?
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>depends on the vehicle set
20:57<RetiredNavyVet>hmmmm, ok. I'll check, may have misread the info
20:58<Eddi|zuHause>click on the vehicle and there on vehicle details
20:58<Eddi|zuHause>there you can see what the vehicle is actually carrying
20:58<RetiredNavyVet>ahhhh, it, ty!
21:00<RetiredNavyVet>lol, now I know why I couldn't pick up wood earlier today too
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 09 00:01:00 2011