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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-09

---Logopened Fri Dec 09 00:01:00 2011
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02:14<appe>morning people
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02:35<@planetmaker>moin
02:55-!-Wolfsherz [~Wolfsherz@2.211.55.46] has joined #openttd
03:00<Lachie>I'm getting a syntax error 'unexpected token ":". I assume it's talking about the colon in name: blah of the line it's complaining about. Any reason why it would do this?
03:01<Lachie>(in NML, derp)
03:10<CIA-6>OpenTTD: peter1138 * r23454 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Change: Mark company window dirty when moving a rail engine creates or deletes a train.
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03:23<@peter1138>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/8943507/Parts-of-Britain-are-battered-by-gale-force-winds-and-storms.html
03:23<@peter1138>oops?
03:26<@planetmaker>:-D
03:27<@planetmaker>Seems something failed
03:27<@planetmaker>Lachie: it would need the code to see why
03:27<Noldo>oh, that's why they shut them down on high winds
03:27<@planetmaker>maybe missing semicolon in the previous line?
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03:28<@peter1138>Noldo, yeah
03:29<@planetmaker>Mostly, I'd assume they have a max. rotation speed due to mechanical wear / material strength
03:29<@planetmaker>it's pointless and not helpful if the blade tips rotate supersonic
03:31<Lachie>planetmaker: just the specific line in question?
03:31<@peter1138>previous lines
03:32<@peter1138>i'm guessing whatever mechanism stops it failed
03:32<Lachie>nevermind, it was a mistake on my half. I forgot to add the "property" bit
03:32<@peter1138>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/8943507/Parts-of-Britain-are-battered-by-gale-force-winds-and-storms.html?image=3
03:32<@peter1138>^ mind you, that won't help either, heh
03:32<Lachie>so it just went item (blah, blah) { name:
03:35<@planetmaker>the whole block I'd say.
03:35<@planetmaker>NML is written in block
03:35<@planetmaker>s
03:36<@planetmaker>ah, nvm
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03:40<Lachie>yeah, I'm a slow learner.
03:41<Lachie>it also doesn't want to accept a t in one "weight" property, but is fine with all the others
03:41<@planetmaker>it doesn't accept them in callbacks iirc
03:41<@planetmaker>not yet
03:41<@planetmaker>only in property blocks
03:43<Lachie>'tis a property block
03:44<@planetmaker>no quoted code, no idea, I'm afraid
03:44<@planetmaker>no offence, but it's probably something stupid. These things usually take the longest to see. You're not alone there :-)
03:45<Lachie>power: 500hp; weight: 60t; engine_class: ENGINE_CLASS_STEAM;
03:45<Lachie>would have been nice for some line breaks. Thanks, NotePad++
03:45<@planetmaker>there are paste services...
03:45<Lachie>touche.
03:45<Lachie>I'm in the midst of cooking dinner, so I'll leave it til I'm back.
03:46<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Units <-- tells you the unit is ton or tons. Not t
03:47<Lachie>ah. it's weird that it only picked up that one then, and not in the other property blocks. will get on to that one shortly.
03:48<@planetmaker>it complains about the first found
03:50<Lachie>and it's just occured to me that ofcourse it didn't pick up the other mentions, they were all commented out. I should probably just go back to bed today.
03:55<@planetmaker>in that case: sweet dreams :-)
03:59<@planetmaker>hm... they yesterday stopped a truck driver on the highway that drunk that he could barely stand and that drunk incapable to make an alcohol test...
04:00<@planetmaker>still, no-one was hurt, no accident caused. By sheer luck
04:09<SpComb>or mad truck driver skillz :)
04:09<SpComb>they probably have a lot of practice
04:11<@planetmaker>he had two empty schnaps bottles in the cabin ;-)
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04:38<@peter1138>general protection fault: 0000 [#1] SMP
04:38<@peter1138>not seen a GPF for a long time...
04:38<@planetmaker>err, what?
04:39-!-Cornelian [b29bd029@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
04:39<Cornelian>Hello, anyone?
04:39<@planetmaker>good when you can complain to someone else then, peter1138 ;-)
04:39<@planetmaker>hi Cornelian
04:39<Cornelian>Is it possible that you can help me with a prolbem i've been having in OpenTTD
04:40<@peter1138>planetmaker, complain? :p
04:40<@planetmaker>possible. But such questions can only be answered when the nature of the problem is known
04:40<@planetmaker>i.e.: don't ask to to ask. Just ask
04:40<@planetmaker>@topic get -3
04:40<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
04:40<@Alberth>even DorpsGek agrees :)
04:41<@planetmaker>:-)
04:41<Cornelian>Allright :) I simply can't choose the load if available option in my transports
04:41<@planetmaker>it's in the topic for a reason
04:41<@peter1138>you can
04:41<@planetmaker>that's the default
04:41<@peter1138>it's the default
04:41<Cornelian>well... my default is full load
04:41<Cornelian>when i try to pick the first it deselects...
04:41<@planetmaker>then disable the 'full load' and you have 'if available'
04:42<Cornelian>That's what i try, but it just turn off picking up anything
04:42<@Alberth>that's 'no loading'
04:42<Cornelian>Yes exactly
04:43<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Order_checker#Order_checking <-- have you read?
04:43<Cornelian>Oh yes
04:43<Cornelian>I've been all around the wiki ;)
04:45<@planetmaker>well. On stations you always have those 4 options available as loading.
04:46<Cornelian>Yes
04:46<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Order_checker#Loading_options
04:46<Cornelian>i can select all of them, except the top one
04:46<Cornelian>if i do, it disables loading
04:46<@planetmaker>what does "disable loading" mean?
04:46<Cornelian>It
04:46<@planetmaker>with "available" it means that the train goes to the station, picks up what is wating, and then leaves
04:47<@planetmaker>if there's nothing waiting, it won't load
04:47<Cornelian>Yes, i can do that
04:47<Cornelian>can't*
04:47<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/load_fullload.png <-- order 1 is load if available, 2 is full load
04:48<Cornelian>Yes, now click the drop down
04:48<@planetmaker>can't do what exaclty? That entry surely is available in the load order drop down list?
04:48<Cornelian>click load if availbe
04:48<@planetmaker>and then you're done
04:48<Cornelian>No, because it doesn't do that
04:48<@planetmaker>oh, it does. But does your train allow to carry the cargo you want to carry?
04:48<Cornelian>I'll illustrate just a sec
04:49<@planetmaker>i.e. are the wagons equipped to carry what yo uwant to pickup?
04:49<@planetmaker>please include info on cargo-to-carry and cargo capacity of vehicle :-)
04:49<Cornelian>A bus for example, picking up passengers
04:49<@planetmaker>yup
04:50<Cornelian>It will wait untill it has a full load or 100%
04:50<@planetmaker>100% = full load
04:50<Cornelian>yes
04:50<@Alberth>you mean it also picks up passengers arriving while you load?
04:50<Cornelian>Then it will leave the station. This takes forever
04:50<@planetmaker>"if available" can mean anything between 0 and 100%
04:50<Cornelian>I know
04:50<Cornelian>That's what i want it to do
04:50<Cornelian>But the option doesn't work
04:51<@planetmaker>can you provide a savegame where I can see that behaviour?
04:51<@Alberth>what version?
04:51<Cornelian>1.1.4
04:51<Cornelian>http://mibpaste.com/7mLTaT this is what happens
04:51<Cornelian>It's in danish, but it's the same order
04:51<@planetmaker>I don't see anything there?
04:51<@Alberth>it's empty
04:52<Cornelian>Oh crap..
04:52<@planetmaker>use imagebin
04:53<Cornelian>http://imagebin.org/187755
04:53<Cornelian>There
04:53<@planetmaker>yes. and?
04:53<@planetmaker>looks to me like it's working
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04:53<@planetmaker>it doesn't say in the orders above "if available"
04:53<@planetmaker>but that's normal
04:54<@planetmaker>as it's default
04:54<Cornelian>are you saying, if nothing is selected
04:54<@Alberth>the line with the order is what you should look at, not at the button
04:54<@planetmaker>if it says nothing else it's always "unload and load if available"
04:54<Cornelian>it will pick up if available
04:54<Cornelian>Oh. My. God
04:54<@planetmaker>"unload if accepted and load if available" is default. And not textually indicated
04:55<@planetmaker>Maybe it's a suggestion for improvement ;-)
04:55<Cornelian>That's what confused me. It not being indicated
04:55<Cornelian>It could be
04:55<Cornelian>Anyways, thank you very much :)
04:55<@planetmaker>you're welcome
04:55<Cornelian>You deserve a cookie
04:56<@planetmaker>*mampf*
04:56<Cornelian>lol
04:56<Cornelian>Bye :D
04:56<@planetmaker>enjoy :-)
04:56<@Alberth>have fun playing :)
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04:57<@planetmaker>hm... :-) I might possibly make sense indeed to indicate also default orders
04:57<@planetmaker>a bit more text. But so what
04:57<@planetmaker>hm... maybe two colums. A load and an unload column
04:57<@planetmaker>which indicate the corresponding actions
04:58<@planetmaker>new order gui
04:58<@planetmaker>damn
04:58<@Alberth>always text would be sufficient imho
04:59<@Alberth>although the separation of loading and unloading does seem to confuse people
04:59*Alberth wonders what the wiki says about it
05:00<@planetmaker>always text would be sufficient. but it would be nicer if one could change the load and unload behaviour directly where it is shown
05:00<@planetmaker>but that's a different task than "always show"
05:03<@Alberth>hmm, that would clean up the mess at the bottom :)
05:03<@planetmaker>yes
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05:03<@planetmaker>it's not exactly intuitively usable
05:04<@planetmaker><| Goto non-stop |> Some Nice Place <| Unload if available |> <| Load if available |>
05:05<@planetmaker>a line like that where you could change in place would be MUCH more intuitive
05:05<@Alberth>the window would be much wider?
05:05<@planetmaker>yes, would be wider
05:05<@planetmaker>though... in columns, maybe not much
05:05*Alberth ponders a kind of pop-up when you click an order
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05:06<@planetmaker>I'd like arrows where you can just change it
05:06<@planetmaker>like the adv. settings
05:06<@planetmaker>though a drop down there would also work
05:07<@planetmaker>Goto non-stop |v| Barlinghausen-Süd unload if accepted |v| load if available |v|
05:08<@planetmaker>one would not even have to remove the buttons below for hysterical raisins
05:08<@Alberth>I am still not entirely convinced you want to have the uload + load combination
05:08<@planetmaker>Yes, why not?
05:08<@Alberth>as the combination does not make a lot of sense
05:08<@planetmaker>that's what you actually normally do, don't you?
05:08<@planetmaker>not?
05:08<@planetmaker>not all, agreed
05:09<@Alberth>hmm, good point, I guess I mean forced unload/load
05:09<@planetmaker>but "no unload and load". "unload and no load". "transfer and no load"
05:10<@planetmaker>I'm still not warm with the concept of forced unload. As one usually either wants it unload (when accepted) or unloaded and further transported (=transfer)
05:10<@Alberth>the trouble is of course when some cargo-d*st hits trunk :)
05:10<@planetmaker>the "unload" order is also a bit confusing for newbies who don't know that it means "unload always and process, if accepted"
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05:17<schultza>why is my pre-signal not selecting my round-about track? for waiting trains?
05:17<@Alberth>picture please :)
05:17<@Alberth>or a save game
05:18<schultza>how do i make a picture?
05:18<schultza>or how do i create a proper round-about track that will be used?
05:19<@Alberth>I use a screenshot tool, normally, but the ? at the right of the top bar has a screenshot menu too
05:19<@Alberth>round-abouts are very tricky, they tend to cause deadlocks
05:20<@planetmaker>ctrl+s
05:20<@planetmaker>is much quicker in creating screenshots
05:20<@Alberth>a round-about where the whole round-about can be used by 1 train at a time is safe, but has little capacity
05:20*SpComb ping timeouts
05:21<schultza>how do i send the file now?
05:22<@Alberth>use a image pastebin site, like imagebin
05:22<@Alberth>(and paste the url here)
05:24<schultza>http://imagebin.org/187757
05:25<@planetmaker>you're using a path signal as entrance. Not a pre-signal
05:25<@planetmaker>don't mix block and path signals
05:25<@peter1138>presignals smell
05:25<schultza>how do i set this up correctly then?
05:25<@peter1138>good in their day
05:25<@planetmaker>remove all exist signals at the entrance. And replace all exit signals at the exit by normal signals
05:26<@planetmaker>and read the signal pages in the wiki
05:26<@planetmaker>they have a few simple examples
05:26<lugo>well...my files didn't seem to get attached to #4
05:26<lugo>*#4876
05:26<schultza>im trying to follow this > http://www.tycoongames.net/strategyguide.issue4.html
05:26<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Signal which explain the use
05:27<@peter1138>that's rather old :)
05:28<@planetmaker>the page you quoted doesn't seem to know anything about signal types
05:28<@planetmaker>and targeted at transport tycoon deluxe
05:28<@planetmaker>which is an ooooold game ;-)
05:29<@planetmaker>then attach them now, lugo ;-)
05:29*lugo searches the edit button
05:29<lugo>or via comment?
05:29<@planetmaker>comment
05:29<@planetmaker>the bug tracker has no edit for a reason
05:33<lugo>done
05:34<schultza>so the easiest way is to remove the exit points in front of the station? and continue with the path signal?
05:35<@planetmaker>ty, lugo
05:35<@planetmaker>schultza: yes
05:35<@planetmaker>alternatively replace the single path signal by an entry signal
05:36<@planetmaker>hm, lugo, can you give me the missing NewGRFs (all which are random/* )?
05:37<@planetmaker>and the SAC one?
05:40<@planetmaker>lugo: and do you have still a savegame which will run and not crash immediately?
05:42<@planetmaker>(but maybe after a few seconds)
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05:47<@planetmaker>lugo: but... this crash seems totally unrelated to any desync on first sight
05:48<lugo>i fear the autosaves all got overwritten, and didn't manually save before >1902 :/
05:48<lugo>you don't have testw.grf are you kidding me? :P
05:49<@planetmaker>All those NewGRFs in random/* are missing and not available online
05:49<@planetmaker>nor do I have that version of SAC's objects
05:49<@planetmaker>it's not the testw.grf
05:50<@planetmaker>it's a firs, tramdpw, VASTobjects and maricow
05:53<lugo>i'm wondering about a way to send them to you, i can only ssh-via-http to my server right now...
05:53<lugo>do you have an ftp?
05:53<@planetmaker>no. But there's e-mail and forum mail
05:54<@planetmaker>alternatively they could be attached to the bug report. As anyone who wants to look at the game would need them, too
05:54<@planetmaker>as one zip file
05:54<lugo>yeah don't have a cli email client set up right now :)
05:55<@planetmaker>but surly you can scp the stuff to you and send from the computer you're chatting from
05:56<@planetmaker>or you have a ftp or http server on your openttd server machine
05:56<@planetmaker>then I could retrieve them that way
05:57<lugo>yeah would need to access port-forwarding for that, which i can't right now :/
05:57<lugo>and i didn't find a viable way to scp via http yet
05:58<schultza>grr... neither way makes my trains use the round-about
05:58<@planetmaker>well. Then the same way you got the other files
05:58<lugo>the hard one
05:58<@planetmaker>scp and then mail is hard?
05:59<@planetmaker>you obviously have ssh to the server. Use scp by the same channel
05:59<lugo>i'm using consoleFISH, i think you can't transfer files with it
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06:01<lugo>http://www.serfish.com/console/
06:02<@planetmaker>grab winscp
06:03<@planetmaker>on any other system you'll have scp already
06:04<lugo>...well i've heard of ways to tunnel through http with winscp, but i'm not to eager trying that out right now :D
06:04<lugo>well setting up a ftp listening on the currently unused torrent port might work ;D
06:06<@planetmaker>well. you got somehow the other two files :-)
06:06<@planetmaker>I trust you that the same method will work again
06:07<@planetmaker>I mean... you'd just need a web-based browser for your file system
06:07<@planetmaker>not even ssh
06:07<@planetmaker>(as problematic as that might be from a security standpoint)
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06:16<schultza>still having problems creating the loop around
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06:19<Wolf01>hello
06:21*Alberth waves hi
06:22<@Alberth>schultza: if you want help, we need more info than that
06:22<@planetmaker>a loop is a means to achieve some things (though often a bad one), but barely a goal in itself ;-)
06:23<schultza>same situation... i tried both alternatives to fixing the track with a round-about try-again approach, and the additional track is not being used....
06:24<@Alberth>try-again approach?
06:24<schultza>overflow round-about
06:25<schultza>basically, im building an overflow loop
06:25<@planetmaker>better build an overflow depot ;-)
06:25<@planetmaker>as that has infinite capacity
06:26<schultza>just a depot before the station?
06:26<schultza>is that the only way to manage overflow?
06:27<@Alberth>http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_station#Advanced_stations
06:27*Alberth always builds a waiting bay, looks nicer :)
06:42<lugo>planetmaker: http://gandalf.zernebok.com/download/file.php?id=136061&sid=2c5ad5b317190487462b860c724dd575
06:43<@planetmaker>that's only one of the grf files?
06:51<schultza>ugh.. some code needs to be fixed.. the looptrack needs to be seen... i will start using the escape depot
06:52<lugo>planetmaker: http://www.openttd.info/infusions/pro_download_panel/file.php?did=543&file_id=531
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07:10<@Alberth>looptrack as at the wiki works for me
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08:21<andythenorth>hello
08:22<lugo>salut!
08:25<@planetmaker>lugo: I'm still missing the four newgrfs from the random folder of your crashy savegame
08:25<@planetmaker>you linked wallys and sac's objects...
08:25<@planetmaker>hi andythenorth
08:32<lugo>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r2635/firs-r2635.zip
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08:34<lugo>http://ttdpatch.de/download/maricow.zip
08:34<@planetmaker>you sure it's the very same versions?
08:37<@planetmaker>hm, yes
08:37<lugo>wasn't too sure ;)
08:38<@planetmaker>if you use non-bananas newgrfs always supply them with bug reports
08:42<Eddi|zuHause>the press makes it sound like they are going to throw britan out of the EU :p
08:43<lugo>i'd have dull feeling uploading other peoples grf, but if that's needed... i may add them in the comments when i'm home...
08:43<@planetmaker>lugo: that's why I offered you to send them to me via e-mail or forum mail
08:43<@planetmaker>(would also be much more convenient for me
08:44<@planetmaker>as I'd not have to click X links or downloads
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08:44<lugo>yeah i was searching for a more elegant solution
08:44<@planetmaker>gather, zip, mail?
08:44<@planetmaker>makes me wonder
08:44<@planetmaker>really
08:44<@planetmaker>and get proper ssh to your machine
08:46<lugo>usage of ssh in the network i'm in right now, isn't exactly appreciated i'm afraid :)
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>wtf?
08:50<Eddi|zuHause>do they also forbid you to lock your car when parked?
08:51<lugo>i think i don't get the analogy, but telnet is blocked either..
08:52<@Alberth>standard ports can normally not be opened by user programs
08:52<lugo>and that's what my problem is
08:52<@Alberth>so use a non-standard port :)
08:53<@Alberth>something above 1024 or so
08:53<@Alberth>or yell at the sys-admin that he should install ssh ;)
08:54-!-Pulec [~pulec@static-cl093181068250.unet.cz] has joined #openttd
09:06<@Belugas>hello
09:10-!-nooblord5000 [598f1ad6@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd
09:10<nooblord5000>hello
09:11<@planetmaker>hullo
09:12*andythenorth keeps finding bugs
09:12*andythenorth should play the game more
09:13<@planetmaker>that seldom hurts ;-)
09:20<nooblord5000>hya
09:22<nooblord5000>im running a server
09:22<nooblord5000>anyone wanna join?
09:22<nooblord5000>the name is nooblord5000's world
09:22<nooblord5000>no password
09:22<nooblord5000>free to join anyone
09:22<@Yexo>nooblord5000: up until a few days ago we always had more servers that clients
09:22<@Yexo>right now it's oppposite, but not by much
09:22<@Yexo>the current average is like 1.2 players per server
09:23<nooblord5000>u wanna join?
09:23<@Yexo>in other words: we don't need more servers, but more online clients
09:23<nooblord5000>fine
09:23<nooblord5000>u dont wanna join
09:23<nooblord5000>anyone?
09:24<@planetmaker>Yexo: indeed there seem meanwhile about the same, clients and servers
09:24<@Belugas>he... anyone else would probably have the same opinion as Yexo, nooblord5000 :)
09:24<@planetmaker>or even slightly more clients
09:24<@Belugas>as for myself, I am working
09:24<nooblord5000>so no one?
09:24<@planetmaker>doesn't make your recommendation invalid, though
09:25<@planetmaker>nooblord5000: people will join it. If you give it some time
09:25<@planetmaker>For people to return you'll need to provide good "service" though
09:26<@planetmaker>Like active moderation / administration and interesting maps and a reliable uptime
09:27<nooblord5000>im a new to this
09:27<nooblord5000>and my time zon is +1
09:27<nooblord5000>GMT
09:28<nooblord5000>i just hit 20000 people in my biggest town!
09:28<nooblord5000>and yeah the server is on right now
09:31<nooblord5000>anyone free to join
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09:38<nooblord5000>JOIN SERVER:name:nooblord5000's world,on time: RIGHT NOW,password:THERE IS NO ONE!
09:38<TrueBrain>nooblord5000: this channel is not meant to advertise your server. Please don't.
09:39<@Yexo>a single line if fine, but now you've gone over the top a bit
09:42<nooblord5000>why
09:42<@Belugas>because you are spamming
09:42<@Belugas>which is rude
09:42<@Belugas>and annyoing
09:42<nooblord5000>im not
09:42<nooblord5000>im just tell ing about my server
09:42<@Belugas>i have a bad day, don't start
09:42<TrueBrain>nooblord5000: imagine all 250 server admins advertising their server every 5 minutes in this channel :)
09:43<TrueBrain>we have a serverlist to tell people about your server. and although I really like your enthousiasm for this game, it simply is a channel rule: do not advertise your server :)
09:43-!-MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:43<nooblord5000>ok
09:43<nooblord5000>didnt know that
09:43<TrueBrain>and that is okay :)
09:43<@Belugas>thanks for your understanding :)
09:43<andythenorth>you could advertise in #openttdservers :P
09:43<nooblord5000>there is 250 servers?
09:44<TrueBrain>nooblord5000: this channel is not meant to advertise your server. Please don't.
09:44<TrueBrain>oops
09:44<TrueBrain>sorry :)
09:44<TrueBrain>my copy/paste buffer fucke dup
09:44<TrueBrain>http://www.openttd.org/en/servers
09:44<TrueBrain>that I wanted to paste :)
09:44*Belugas hugs SlowBrain
09:44<@planetmaker>:-D
09:44<TrueBrain>"Servers registered as on 2011-12-09 14:44:09 UTC. There are 308 clients, 229 IPv4 servers and 37 IPv6 servers."
09:44<andythenorth>which bugs should I fix first :P
09:44<TrueBrain>andythenorth: the OSX ones please
09:44<andythenorth>planetmaker: I thought you were disappearing for some days?
09:45<@planetmaker>were I?
09:45<andythenorth>maybe I misread
09:45<andythenorth>feel like some FIRS tickets? Small ones?
09:45<nooblord5000>lol
09:45<TrueBrain>planetmaker: you only have yourself to blame for thatone :P You walked right into his trap :D
09:45<@planetmaker>I guess :-)
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09:46<@planetmaker>andythenorth: more likely after the upcoming release(s)
09:46<@planetmaker>want to finish a few things before that
09:46<andythenorth>what are you releasing?
09:47<@planetmaker>look back a year less 14 days ;-)
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09:51<@planetmaker>andythenorth: I could also say: something which gives more incentive to players using firs 0.7
09:52<andythenorth>:)
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09:53<@planetmaker>that's the same thing which crashes, lugo's game, Yexo
09:54<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: nogo-0.2 allows you to build roads (for free) in world generation; maybe you can make a GS to show your town algorithm by connecting all towns? :D:D
09:54<@Yexo>I know,but I hope this game has more known grfs
09:55<@planetmaker>:-)
09:55<@planetmaker>one
09:56<@planetmaker>which is also available in the net it seems
09:56<@Yexo>only mainhqw.grf is missing
09:57<@planetmaker>searching for that filename will give you a download link
09:58<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/mainhqw.grf <-- or there
09:58<@Yexo>don't need it
09:59<@planetmaker>I know
09:59<@planetmaker>it can only be static actionA
10:00<@Yexo>found the bug too
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10:06<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23455 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r23438): send the stderr in the right part to /dev/null
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10:11<@Yexo><planetmaker> that's the same thing which crashes, lugo's game, Yexo <_ you remember where he posted that?
10:11<@planetmaker>on FS
10:12<@planetmaker>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4876 <-- but quite wrong title
10:12<@Yexo>that is a completely different issue
10:12<@planetmaker>no, the attached crash log is that issue
10:12<@planetmaker>at least the crash.sav has
10:12<@Yexo>same as which issue?
10:13<@planetmaker>as this one in the forums
10:13<@Yexo>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=57687 I' ve been fixing this one
10:13<@planetmaker>yes
10:13<@Yexo>that has to do with airports, not with road stops
10:13<@planetmaker>Message: Assertion failed at line 2086 of ..\src\station_cmd.cpp: layout < as->num_table <-- I get the same with lugo's crash.sav
10:14<@planetmaker>thus the desync and crash he talks about are totally different things IMHO
10:14<@Yexo>planetmaker: that bug was introduced in r23441, lugo played with r23440
10:14<@planetmaker>I loaded it in my trunk, granted
10:14<@Yexo>those are really different issues
10:15<@planetmaker>then that (new) bug stopped me getting the same thing :-)
10:16<@planetmaker>I know of no other bug then
10:16<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23456 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23441): oilrigs don't have any layouts nor do they provide airport noise
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10:24<Hirundo>today's wtf is a meta-wtf: http://thedailywtf.com/
10:25<@Yexo>hahaha
10:25<@peter1138>haven't read that site for years, heh
10:26<@Yexo>Is there anything in the spec that requires industries to have tile 0,0 in their layout?
10:29<andythenorth>hmm
10:29<andythenorth>how do I animate in FIRS?
10:30<Hirundo>Yexo: IIRC not
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10:32<Hirundo>andythenorth: a) show different gfx depending on animation_frame and b) set animation properties (simple stuff) and/or callbacks (more complex stuff)
10:32*andythenorth looks
10:33<@planetmaker>plastic plant (?) has it
10:36<andythenorth>the iron works (I'm working on has it)
10:38<andythenorth>or is that using child sprites?
10:39-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
10:39<@planetmaker>child sprites or not. It's about showing one sprite or another depending on animation frame
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10:48<andythenorth>so I need to define animation in a child sprite?
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10:51<@planetmaker>andythenorth: not necessarily. If it's, say, a building sprite, you can also swap the whole building sprite as animation frame
10:51<@planetmaker>s/as/during an/
10:53<andythenorth>I wish I could unlearn nfo :(
10:53<andythenorth>it is a definite hinderance
10:54<@Yexo>how is that a hinderance?
10:57<andythenorth>too much doesn't translate
10:57<andythenorth>nml is an entirely different way of creating a grf
10:58<andythenorth>makes nml much more difficult than nml really is
11:02<andythenorth>bringing a gun to a knife fight :P
11:04<@peter1138>child sprites are an optimisation thing
11:04<@peter1138>they occupy the same bounding box
11:06<@peter1138>only the parent sprites are sorted
11:08<@peter1138>something i noticed with newgrfs
11:08<@peter1138>tile layouts tend to have lots of bounding boxes, one for each sprite
11:08<@planetmaker>andythenorth: knowing NFO is not a hindrance but an asset. It helps you understand quite a few quirks
11:08<@peter1138>like the swedish houses, they have a bounding box for the flag
11:09<@peter1138>which could just as easily be part of the regular sprite
11:11<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23457 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: introduce Industry::TileBelongsToIndustry() to simplify code checking for that
11:12<@peter1138>FIRS fruit plantation has a lot of bounding boxes
11:12<@planetmaker>:-)
11:12<@peter1138>some even overlap the tile edge o_O
11:12<Arkabzol>Hell yeah Sweden.
11:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23458 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:
11:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Fix: don't assume all industries that cut trees have tile 0,0
11:12<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Fix: wait until all tiles of an industry are completed before starting to cut trees
11:14<@peter1138>andythenorth, maybe you should use more child sprites ;)
11:14<@peter1138>nothing to do with animation thoughy
11:15<@peter1138>stations generally need bounding boxes cos they have vehicles going through them
11:16<@peter1138>but industries don't
11:17<@peter1138>heh, and the smoke on the metal foundry has a bounding box
11:19<@peter1138>i guess there's a misconception as to what bounding boxes are for ;)
11:39<andythenorth>I use bounding boxes because I don't know how not to
11:41<andythenorth>also
11:41<andythenorth>are there any examples of animation with nml? I just need to swap realsprites
11:42<andythenorth>normally I'd just check var 44
11:42<andythenorth>and enable animation on the tile
11:45<@Yexo>opengfx+airports has animation for at least the flags
11:45<@Yexo>doesn't firs already have some animation?
11:45<@Yexo>var 44 is named "animation_frame" in nml
11:45<@planetmaker>andythenorth: FIRS iirc has animations
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11:46<andythenorth>I'm probably doing this wrong
11:47<@Yexo>can you show the changes you already have?
11:47<andythenorth>I don't have any :)
11:47<andythenorth>I have no idea what to change
11:47<andythenorth>I should just start from scratch and write a full industry
11:47<@Yexo>what do you want to change?
11:48<@planetmaker>laluminum plant has it, andythenorth
11:48<@Yexo>ie which industry / tiles do you want to add animation to?
11:48<andythenorth>iron works
11:48<andythenorth>it already has animation though
11:48<andythenorth>I'll just waste your time with dumb questions
11:48<andythenorth>I need to write an industry grf from scratch in nml
11:49<andythenorth>I'll do that later
11:49<@Yexo>it's really no problem to keep asking questions
11:50<andythenorth>I won't learn anything
11:50<andythenorth>also there's a manual
11:50<@Yexo>I doubt that
11:51<@planetmaker>I think what you might want to do, is implement one industry from scratch in NML
11:51<@planetmaker>but you can do that in FIRS, too
11:51<andythenorth>I had approximately zero questions when using the tutorial to create vehicles in nml
11:51<andythenorth>maybe one or two
11:51<@Yexo>^^ if you do create a simple industry in nml, perhaps we could use that as example?
11:51<@planetmaker>just skip all templates when doing so
11:51<@planetmaker>also ^^
11:51<@Yexo>we don't have example code for industries yet
11:52<@planetmaker>also, other animation code is found with e.g. the oil wells
11:52<andythenorth>good point
11:53<andythenorth>that appears to use the cb
11:56<andythenorth>what would be an amusing standalone industry?
11:56<andythenorth>I keep thinking a lighthouse...
11:56<@planetmaker>Post office. Input = Output
11:57<@planetmaker>:-P
11:57<@planetmaker>gives you exponentially more mail when you input mail from towns ;-)
11:58<@planetmaker>Well. Maybe a fish farm?
11:59<@Yexo>output=input won't really work, but output=input/4 or so might be interesting
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12:02<@planetmaker>Or maybe some ancient industries... not sure which... a pottery?
12:02<@planetmaker>accepting clay?
12:02<@planetmaker>producing goods?
12:03<b_jonas>shouldn't towns work like that anyway, returning some of the passengers you take there?
12:04<@planetmaker>personally I really would like a fish farm :-)
12:05<andythenorth>should probably be in core FIRS
12:05<@planetmaker>I like the fish cargo. And fish farms would allow fish also on land or near the shore
12:06<@planetmaker>And has many options for interesting graphics
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12:14<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23459 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: don't crash trying to draw airport tiles when the airport grf is missing
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12:29<andythenorth>what will this evaluate to?
12:29<andythenorth>THIS_ID(spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof)
12:29<andythenorth>when CPP parses it
12:29<@planetmaker>depends on the definition of THIS_ID. In FIRS it's defined per industry.
12:30<@Yexo>something like aluminium_plant_spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof
12:30<@planetmaker>And expands to Industry_spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof
12:30<@planetmaker>where Industry is the actual industry name
12:30<@planetmaker>Actually both, Yexo and I quoted one _ too much ;-)
12:31<andythenorth>so passing params to CPP is like a concat?
12:31<@planetmaker>that macro is just concattening
12:31<andythenorth>ok
12:31<@Yexo>it depends on the macro
12:31<@planetmaker>but ^^
12:31<@Yexo>#define THIS_ID(...) aluminium_plant ## __VA_ARGS__
12:31<@Yexo>## is concat in cpp
12:31<andythenorth>ok
12:32<andythenorth>I thought the params were for nml, and THIS_ID was substituting a constant
12:32<andythenorth>or such
12:32<@planetmaker>nope, it's all cpp magic
12:32<@Yexo>nml never sees THIS_ID
12:32<andythenorth>so a lot of what I think are parameters, aren't
12:32<@planetmaker>to avoid writing the lengthy industry name
12:33<@planetmaker>and to allow to write macros independent of industry
12:33<@Yexo>andythenorth: if you only write a single industry, leave out all those THIS_ID macros
12:33<@planetmaker>yes.
12:33<andythenorth>I am back trying to unpick the existing code :P
12:33<@Yexo>their use is to make THIS_ID(some_tile) and THIS_ID(some_tile) have unique names when used for different industries
12:33<@planetmaker>no macros: no THIS_ID needed
12:34<@Yexo>that way both the oil rig and the aluminum plant can have THIS_ID(tile_a) without them overwriting eachother
12:36<andythenorth>can nml do a concat?
12:36<@Yexo>for strings: yes, for identifiers, no
12:36<andythenorth>hmm
12:36<andythenorth>ok
12:37<Rubidium>andythenorth: what version of FIRS has checksum FB9B8446A99B02F73488AB9A7DE4CBCA and grfid F1250005 ? ;)
12:37<@Yexo>"abc" + "def" works and results in "abcdef"
12:37<andythenorth>Rubidium: :P
12:37<andythenorth>no idea
12:37<andythenorth>I might have just written the identifiers out longhand
12:37<andythenorth>as they also have 'spritelayout_' etc
12:37<andythenorth>spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof is not short :)
12:37<andythenorth>ironworks_spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof is barely worse
12:38<@Yexo>THIS_ID is useful because it's used in some macros IIRC, dunno precesily
12:38<@Yexo>but I agree that writing it out in this case would make things clearer
12:39<andythenorth>I assumed there was some object orientated magic using parameters
12:39<@planetmaker>Rubidium: 2635
12:39<andythenorth>and that THIS_ID was equivalent to calling self() or this() or whatever
12:39<andythenorth>I have been trying to figure out what the object / property hierarchy is :D
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12:40<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r2635/firs-r2635.zip
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12:49<andythenorth>hmm
12:49<andythenorth>so switching tile action 2s was the *old* way to do animation
12:49<andythenorth>presumably now the correct way is to put realsprites into a register?
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12:51<@planetmaker>it's easier to do that via registers, yes
12:51<@planetmaker>as you then can say:
12:51<@planetmaker>sprite: somespriteset(number)
12:52<@planetmaker>and only use one layout statement and get sprites directly there via parameter
12:52<@planetmaker>which for example could be the animation_frame directly
12:53<@Yexo>andythenorth: there is no correct or wrong way for it
12:53<@Yexo>switchting tile action2s is still valid
12:54<andythenorth>clunky though :)
12:54<@Yexo>depending on how exactly you code it, doing it via registers might be easier and/or less code
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13:12<Hirundo>afaik just doing somespriteset(animation_frame) in the spritelayout should work
13:13<andythenorth>and then handle animation_frame in the graphics?
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13:24<andythenorth>so to animate a tile, do I need to substitute SPRITELAYOUT_FENCES_NORMAL with a custom layout?
13:27*andythenorth hearts EZ
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13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23460 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt czech.txt unfinished/urdu.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: czech - 42 changes by ReisRyos
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 33 changes by Tucalipe
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: urdu - 154 changes by haider
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14:30<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23461 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: handle a missing airport newgrf as graceful as possible by not crashing when loading such savegame or when an airport is removed
14:53<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23462 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.h station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: use AirportTileTableIterator in a few more places to make the code easier to read
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15:09<@Terkhen>hello
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15:28<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23463 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23461): unused variable
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15:48<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23464 /trunk/src/ (order_backup.cpp order_backup.h order_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#4876]: clear the backed up orders of a removed station as well, otherwise one could create orders to a station that was never in the original backupped orders. For example a road vehicle trying to go to a buoy.
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16:40<andythenorth>hmm
16:41<andythenorth>auto-replace is not very clever
16:41<andythenorth>maybe we can upgrade that :P
16:42<Rubidium>that's a common thought for more of the things the developer of autoreplace wrote
16:43<Rubidium>though autoreplace can't be made much more clever without massive conceptual changes
16:43<andythenorth>I am reading the code :P
16:43<Rubidium>is the complexity already oozing out of all orifices?
16:44<andythenorth>not sure yet
16:44<andythenorth>where is GetBestFittingSubType hiding :P
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16:47<Rubidium>vehicle_gui.cpp?
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16:48<andythenorth>yup
16:49*andythenorth wonders if the trailing parts of articulated RVs are just ignored by autoreplace
16:49<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23465 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#4827]: add 'find missing content online' button to 'load savegame' and 'find network game' windows
16:50<frosch123>autoreplace works in whole vehicles
16:50<frosch123>so, all rv are only one vehicle, articulated parts do not matter
16:51<andythenorth>so if first vehicle has 0 capacity, subtype will be ignored?
16:52<frosch123>hmm, might be an issue, yes
16:52<frosch123>it should pick a part with cargo
16:52<andythenorth>I should just put 1t capacity on first vehicle?
16:52<frosch123>(autoreplace checks that the vehicle only carries one cargotype, and refuses to replace inconsistent vehicles)
16:57<@Terkhen>good night
16:57<frosch123>andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/diffs/checkallarticpartsforsubtype.diff <- does that improve it?
16:57*andythenorth tests
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16:59<@planetmaker>good night
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17:03<andythenorth>frosch123: :(
17:03<andythenorth>no apparent improvement
17:03<andythenorth>could be a problem with my trams
17:04<frosch123>ah, i guess i need to do the same with the new vehicle
17:07<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23466 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp window.cpp): -Fix [FS#4871, FS#4874]: assertion triggered when resizing a window during ReInit by an amount that's not a multiple of the resize interval
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17:44<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23467 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Feature [FS#4827]: automatically close the online content window after confirming the download with 'ok'
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18:04<frosch123>night
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18:10<Wolf01>'night
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19:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23468 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Feature [FS#4827]: when looking for missing content, automatically select it so you can easily start the download
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19:08<wolf9988>hello
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19:19<Eddi|zuHause>if we have "open in browser" link support, the download window could offer a "search on grfcodec for <GRFID>" link
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>for missing content
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19:23<@Yexo>search on grfcodec?
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>err
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>grfcrawler
19:28<Eddi|zuHause>same 4-letter prefix :p
19:29<+michi_cc>Anybody in here with a real Win95/98 install?
19:29<@Yexo>a grfcrawler api so the game could check if any grf matches the grfid, and if so provide a link to the grfcrawler page would be even better
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19:32<Zuu>Eddi|zuHause: Just dig up my task on FS where I've collected cross-platform methods to obtain a browser hopefully liked by the user. :-)
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>Yexo: what's different than just providing a link to the search page, with the grfid filled in?
19:33<Eddi|zuHause>Zuu: that wasn't the point.
19:33<@Yexo>not much, but the game could provide a clue that you won't find anything there
19:33<@Yexo>@bug 2750
19:33<@DorpsGek>Yexo: Temporary Offline
19:33<@Yexo>@fs 2750
19:33<@DorpsGek>Yexo: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2750
19:33<@Yexo>that one?
19:34<Zuu>Yep
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19:37<@Yexo>let's see if I can finish my open_url patch
19:39<Zuu>I think it would be awsome if this can finaly be added where as for sure it is not possible to guarantee it to work in all corner cases, it will probably work forthe majority and the rest could possible set a config in openttd.cfg to make it work.
19:40<@Yexo>my current idea is to simply not care about the rest
19:40<Zuu>If the rest are Linux people and you go with XdgUtils, they can just try to obtain XdgUtils. :-)
19:41<@Yexo>exactly
19:53<+michi_cc>Yexo: grfcrawler *has* an API: http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/xml.php?api=search&q=535A5644 (only no documentation as far as I an see :)
19:53<@Yexo>bah, xml :p
19:55<@Yexo>@base 16 10 5b8c
19:55<@DorpsGek>Yexo: 23436
19:55<+michi_cc>And the "documentation": http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/tycoon/link/1219689767#1219689767
19:56<welshdragon>off topic question: anyone able to help me with python?
19:57<@Yexo>not if you don't ask what your problem with it is
19:57<welshdragon>I'm using the tutorial here: http://learnpythonthehardway.org/book/ex8.html
19:57<welshdragon>my code is http://pastebin.com/jJX9sCuf
19:58<+michi_cc>Search by GRFID: http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/xml.php?api=search&type=grfidlist&q=535A5644+6D620C00
19:58<welshdragon>it says that on line 12 'str' object is not callable
20:00<Pinkbeast>Does it produce any output? What if you remove line 12? Have you got the crack-brained indentation thing wrong?
20:00<Pinkbeast>remove line 12> and the corresponding comma obviously
20:00<Pinkbeast>Oh, line 12; no % between "formatter" and (
20:01<Pinkbeast>... I'm not a Python programmer so for all I know that's right but it looks like it might be wrong
20:01<welshdragon>oh
20:01<welshdragon>line 8 is missing an %
20:01<welshdragon>duh
20:01<Pinkbeast>Oh, I meant line 8, didn't I?
20:02<welshdragon>thanks Pinkbeast, dunno why I'm learning to code at gone 1 am
20:02<Pinkbeast>That is when most code is written :-)
20:03<Zuu>at 2 am you start to wonder if it isn't time to go to bed. :-)
20:03<Eddi|zuHause>and then you continue anyway until 4 or 5 :p
20:05<welshdragon>no no, I'm going to bed soon
20:06<welshdragon>still, eventually I should be able to start coding for OTTD
20:06<@Yexo>http://devs.openttd.org/~yexo/open_url.diff Can someone test this under linux and/or mac osx?
20:07<@Yexo>it adds a "view website" button in the online content window
20:10<@Yexo>also I'm far from sure fork/execv is the best solution here
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20:49<CIA-6>OpenTTD: yexo * r23469 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Fix (r23468): gcc warning about initialization order
20:56<Zuu>Yexo: would maybe OpenBrowser need more protection against someone trying to execute remote commands by crafting an URL?
20:57<@Yexo>I think (but am not 100% sure) that the current implementation is safe
20:58<Zuu>I see, you found a way to explicitly specify your arguments as an array for Linux and not just compose a string that is executed.
20:58<@Yexo>yes, that's why I use execv and not system
20:58<@Yexo>but I'm on windows right now, so I haven't even compiled that code
21:10*Zuu => bed
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23:04<Lachie>hmmm, maybe NFO was easier after all.
---Logclosed Sat Dec 10 00:00:02 2011