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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-15

---Logopened Thu Dec 15 00:00:28 2011
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03:01<dihedral>good morning
03:01<appe>Elukka: how cute
03:02<appe>it's a nice one
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03:46<Elukka>the i-have-issues-with-human-sexuality-and-i-wanna-make-my-denial-law -bill
03:46<appe>i think its horrid
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04:06<@peter1138>that's 8 months old
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04:09<appe>im finding it hard to find new info about it
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04:38<@peter1138>hmm, pikka's level crossings have no signs/lights/barriers :S
04:44<@planetmaker>those make lot of work, if you want to cater for left and right side traffic, open and closed state, snowy and non-snowy state
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04:50<@peter1138>simple lights don't
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07:26<fjb|tab>Moin Nite.
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08:17<Eddi|zuHause>statistics of the day: "men with children work longer than men without children"
08:21<appe>does the test imply wether or not unemployed is accounted for?
08:21<appe>most fathers do need a job to continue being a father.
08:22<TrueBrain>Eddi|zuHause: logic. men w ith children no longer wants to fuck his wife. Logic.
08:23<__ln__>or: children make work less efficient, so it takes longer.
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08:25<TrueBrain>after a child you lost parts of your brain?
08:31<fjb|tab>TrueBrain: I don't see the logic there.
08:31<TrueBrain>fjb|tab: how many children do you have? :P
08:34<fjb|tab>Depends if you count my own or the children of my girlfriends. ;-)
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08:37<fjb|tab>Moines glx.
08:38<fjb|tab>Strange auto correction...
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08:54<Amis>Hello o/
08:54<Amis>I was wondering if it's possible to lower the rate at what the game places transmitters all over the map or at least turn it off?
08:55<@Yexo>you can enable the magic bulldozer and remove them that way
08:56<Amis>But the problem is that each time I generate a map it's all ugly when zoomed out because there are transmitters all over the place
08:56<Amis>It's plain ugly and there are unnaturally too much of em
08:58<XeryusTC>if you live in a country where you have multiple mobile network operators then you'll notice that there are not too much in openttd ;)
08:59<Amis>Pic related:
08:59<@Yexo>that map looks too empty anyway :p
08:59<XeryusTC>and you can also make them transparent if you find them ugly
08:59<Amis>Yexo, I like playing on huge map with big distances
09:00<@planetmaker>given the size of typical towns that does not look like many transmitters
09:01<Amis>I guess I'll just use the rock newgrf if there's no option to remove it
09:02<Amis>Btw, are there any year limit for lighthouses?
09:02<Amis>I don't have any
09:03<@Yexo>they're only build near the edges of the map and IIRC also only if there is water nearby
09:05<@planetmaker>hm, near map edges only? I thought water vicinity was the only requirement. But granted, I didn't look at that piece of code so far
09:07<Amis>Now that's something I would also like to be changeable
09:08<Eddi|zuHause>you can make a newobject grf
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09:12<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, but that won't change the com tower
09:14<Amis>I wonder if an intelligent newgrf could be made that detects "peeks" in the generated landscape and places transmitters on the top of em
09:14<@planetmaker>objects are not auto-placed on world generation
09:14<@planetmaker>other than lighthouses and transmitters
09:15<Amis>That means: ...?
09:17<Amis>Transmitters on top of hills would at least make sense
09:23<@planetmaker>arent't they on top of hills?
09:24<Amis>planetmaker, nope
09:25<Amis>I mean, not in OpenTTD
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09:25*Belugas starts mumbling about discussion getting too RL oriented...
09:31<@planetmaker>Amis, I'm quite sure they're not in valleys. Looking at your map: it has so little topography that height hardly matters
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09:32<fjb|tab>Moin Belugas.
09:33<Amis>planetmaker, but I could image a newgrf that has a "roughness" slider for bigger, more smoother maps
09:36<@planetmaker>I can imagine many things. But maps topography is not NewGRF-influenced.
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09:37<kleinerdrache>hi there
09:37<@planetmaker>And yes, the newgame settings have parameters to adjust smoothness and size of features
09:37<@planetmaker>hi kleinerdrache
09:37<@planetmaker>do you breath fire?
09:38<kleinerdrache>I have a railway station and a haven next to each other, and it says that can be connected with the ctrl key, but this doesn't work, how can I do that?
09:38<kleinerdrache>both have their own names
09:41<@planetmaker>you can't connect existing stations
09:41<@planetmaker>you can only connect via ctrl new parts to an existing station
09:41<kleinerdrache>planetmaker what now?
09:41<@planetmaker>even when they would not touch
09:42<kleinerdrache>thats bad, but they are so close together. Maybe I build a new one next to it, move all by ship and then remove the first one?
09:42<@planetmaker>you can just delete one and rebuild it by using ctrl+click and then attach it to the other existing one
09:43<@planetmaker>just forget about the existing cargo. More hassle than gain ;-)
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09:46<Amis>I had much trouble with reconfiguring all vehicles orders' when moving em to other stations till I found out about shared orders
09:52<fjb|tab>Sharing makes your life easy.
10:06<@peter1138>do you need an undo knob?
10:17<@Belugas><PLAY AND WATCH> button?
10:19<fjb|tab>That is called public server.
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10:28<@Belugas>good one :)
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10:36<nitraat>hi all, hope someone here who knows the OpenTTD source well can help me out with a question
10:36<nitraat>how is the number of days in transit calculated? especially with regards to waiting in a station and transferred cargo
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10:47<TrueBrain>from moment it came into existance till you deliver it
10:47<TrueBrain>kinda the most obvious one :)
10:47<@peter1138>not entirely true :)
10:50<TrueBrain>odd, I cannot find anything on the wiki which specifies the term
10:50<TrueBrain>it only uses it
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12:11<@Belugas>hoo.. Chirac kapput
12:12<@Belugas>no one is untouchable!
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12:40<appe>chirac, that french duder?
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12:54<Rubidium>nitraat: every 185 ticks (default) the cargo is in a vehicle it is aged
12:59<appe>Belugas: never mind.
13:02*Belugas enters the Kingdom of Ignorance
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13:08<@peter1138>what's more likely to see fruitition?
13:09<@peter1138>a) transport empire b) p1sim c) openlocomotion
13:10<@Alberth>a) seems to make some progress at least
13:10<@Belugas>a) is the one with the more code written, i'd say a). But the dev team is... dunno... not... open?
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13:11<@Alberth>although 'yay another window' gets a bit tedious :)
13:11<@Alberth>the team is just 1 person afaik
13:11<Rubidium>Alberth: but so is the 32bpp thread ;)
13:12<@Alberth>32bpp may be sooner finished that TE :)
13:12<Rubidium>just for the 32bpp thread there are still some 20k sprites to be drawn, and I guess the amount of windows in TE will be two orders of magnitude smaller
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13:13<@Alberth>windows is just interface, the real stuff is behind that
13:16<@Belugas>mmm... Asus Transformer Prime delayed to the 20th of december :(
13:17<@Belugas>one toy less under the tree :S
13:17<fjb|tab>Alberth: But you need an interface to make things usable.
13:18<Rubidium>fjb|tab: not always
13:18<@Alberth>fjb|tab: yes, but it is not the primary problem of the program imho
13:18<fjb|tab>Belugas: But it will be cheaper next year.
13:18<Rubidium>e.g. we need zoomed in sprites to make the zoom in (more) useable ;)
13:19<@Belugas>fjb|tab: agreed. But we'll have 1% tax rate increase by then
13:20<@Alberth>fjb|tab: that is, it is relatively easy to create yet another window, especially the kind of windows he is doing. It does not add to the core engine however
13:21<fjb|tab>Rubidium: I was speaking about interfaces in general, not that 32bbp stuff which I don't care for.
13:23<fjb|tab>Belugas: But it will be more than 1% cheaper in a few weeks.
13:24<fjb|tab>Moin Terkhen .
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13:29<@Belugas>hey Terkhen :)
13:29<@Belugas>fjb|tab, when I see the rate at which they are getting cheaper, i'm not sure i'll have a good deal before summer :(
13:29<@Belugas>I WANT MY TOY NOW!!!
13:29<@Belugas>ooops... sorry dear.. OUR TOY
13:31<fjb|tab>Belugas: The price will stay high as long as nobody can buy it.
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13:35<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23519 /trunk/src/script/api/doxygen_filter.awk: -Change: do not export enum values in the AI documentation
13:36<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23520 /trunk/src/script/api/script_engine.hpp: -Fix-ish: wrong @param name causing missing documentation
13:36*fjb|tab will have to play with an Archos 80 G9 until then.
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13:39<Eddi|zuHause>i find it worrying that patents have degraded to a system how one can most effectively destroy the other guy's christmas sales.
13:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23521 /trunk/ (17 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: use the actual enum values from the 'core' in the API when they refer to the in-game values in the cases where that is possible and sensible
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23522 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt korean.txt unfinished/urdu.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: catalan - 19 changes by arnau
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: korean - 22 changes by junho2813, telk5093
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: urdu - 1 changes by haider
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13:46<@Belugas>fjb|tab: WE do not like to wait :)
13:46<@Belugas>Archos 80? is it good?
13:46<@Belugas>"will have to play.. until then" you want the prime too?
13:48<fjb|tab>Belugas: waiting for the prime too. The Archos is ok.
13:48<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23523 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt: -Fix: language compilation error
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14:11<fjb|tab>Belugas: The display of the Archos is not the best and the case feels weak. But it is fast. It still has somet trouble playing HD videos with a high bit rate. And you have to buy an additional license to play mpeg videos with the build in player.
14:13*Belugas hopes prime will be as good as they say :)
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14:15<fjb|tab>Three prime will be a lot faster, but the Archos is cheap and gets constant updates.
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>"firefox now too big to compile under win32"
14:16<fjb|tab>Oh oh…
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>apparently the "profile guided optimization" linker phase exceeds 3GB ram
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14:19<@Belugas>yeah... 4 core cpu will help indeed :) plus the battery life and all.
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14:21<kleinerdrache>is it possible to get an overview over railway stations to see how much things/passengers are waiting?
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>click on them?
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>the station list has small icons displaying how much is waiting as well
14:23<fjb|tab>Yes, just click at the stations button in the toolbar.
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14:24<kleinerdrache>thanks fjb|tab
14:25<fjb|tab>Moin andythenorth.
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14:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23524 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_core.cpp ai_scanner.cpp ai_scanner.hpp): -Codechange: move the name of the scanner to a level deeper
14:54<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23525 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 3 dirs):
14:54<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Codechange: make Window::flags4 WindowFlags instead of uint16, with only values known in WindowFlags (and move out 2 timers to their own variable)
14:54<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Codechange: rename Window::flags4 to Window::flags
14:54<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Codechange: move some non-inline functions from .hpp to .cpp
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15:46<lappro>hi all
15:47<Zuu>Hello lappro
15:47<fjb|tab>Moin lappro.
15:47<lappro>wow wouldn't have thought the chat of this originally old game would be this active :O
15:49<lappro>just came here after seeing yogscast vid :P though i would discover some ancient stuff, its quite the opposite
15:49<V453000>you obviously do not realize what openttd offers :p
15:50<lappro>anything important i need to know? or should i just pioneer my way through the community/game/something i dont know yet?
15:50<V453000>discovering on your own is best I think :)
15:50*Zuu agrees
15:51<lappro>yea 1 question, i couldnt find a server file or something so i can run my own server for friends im going to invite?
15:52<Zuu>You don't need a separte OpenTTD version for that.
15:52<Zuu>You need to set up your network properly however
15:52<lappro>its build into the client?
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>yes, every client can act as server
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>just start a multiplayer game
15:52<lappro>thx for the info
15:54<@DorpsGek>Zuu: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
15:55<Zuu>For portforwarding see above.
15:55<lappro>thx :D
15:59-!-Zuu [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:59<lappro>bye zuu?
16:04-!-Zuu [] has joined #openttd
16:04<Zuu>hello again :-)
16:05<Zuu>Windows decided to screw up my keyboard input each time I pressed Alt GR until I forced it to work by switching keyboard layout back and forth. A reboot fixed that. :-)
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16:12<lappro>is there a tutorial available?
16:12<Zuu>Download TutorialAI
16:12<Zuu>(from online content in the game)
16:13<Zuu>Set it as AI opponent and start a new game.
16:13<lappro>i can download that from within the game or do i have to download it from the site or something and put it in the game directory
16:14<Zuu>Start the game and click on the lower left button in the menu.
16:14<Zuu>It should say "online content" or similar.
16:14<lappro>got it thanks
16:15<lappro>i shall check it out tomorrow, bed time now :P
16:15<lappro>bye all
16:15<Zuu>That tutorial is a bit experimental. For longer tutorials, see the wiki or youtube.
16:15<lappro>i will see if i understand it afterwards have to go now
16:16<lappro>thx btw
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16:16<Zuu>good night
16:27<@Terkhen>good night
16:35*andythenorth -> bed
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16:53<Eddi|zuHause>if you like conspiracies :)
16:54<V453000>nice one :D
16:56<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23526 /trunk/src/ (37 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: unify cargos vs cargoes
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>car goes wrrmm wrrmm
16:57<TWerkhoven[l]>mine goes putputputput
16:59<TrueBrain>mine goes zoef
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>what's cargös anyway?
17:01<frosch123>a relative of cargøs
17:02<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23527 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: unify colo(u)r as far as it goes
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>(my german mind is conditioned to do s/oe/ö/g)
17:02<frosch123>oh, of course there is also cargœs
17:03<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so you read gös all day?
17:03-!-Neon [] has quit [Quit: Python is way too complicated... I prefer doing it quickly in C.]
17:03<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: then read it as cargoës :p
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>which brings us back to cars :)
17:04<frosch123>i love my compose key ♥
17:04-!-Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>i rather like dead keys
17:05<frosch123>dead keys are the death of programming or so
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>or let's say i've gotten used to them
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>the only relevant dead key for programming is ^
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>and you quickly learn to type [^][space]
17:06<frosch123>there is also `
17:06<frosch123>and ~
17:06<frosch123>though maybe the latter is usually not dead
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>~ is not a dead key (usually)
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>and ` is not used in many languages
17:07<frosch123>sh :)
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>use $() :)
17:07<frosch123>though you can use xargs in some case
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>that's better, because it can be nested
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>what's usually more troublesome for programming is the placing of {[]} on german keyboards
17:08<@Alberth>and ' and "
17:09<frosch123>or searching in vi an man :p
17:09*Alberth consistently fails to remember that possibility :p
17:10<frosch123>searching in man?
17:10<frosch123>it's the only way to use the bash manual :p
17:10<frosch123>(well, if there is actually any)
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17:14<fjb|tab>frosch123: Use tcsh.
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17:15<frosch123>i use both tcsh and bash, that's why i am continuously failing at both :p
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17:22<appe>scones, anyone?
17:23<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23528 /trunk/ (111 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: move widget enums to widgets/NNN_type.h
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17:54<V453000> ^^
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>might need a few adjustments to lighting etc.
18:00<V453000>nah, true colour :D
18:01<Eddi|zuHause>and you should have different wagon sprite offsets depending on position_in_vehid_chain and motion_counter
18:01<V453000>yes, this is just the first version :)
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18:13<Immy>Hi there, I was wondering if it is possible to change the "victory"/"win" conditions in the multiplayer mode of the game.
18:14<dotwaffle>silly question: if a train is at 100% full of passengers, but won't leave a station, and has any orders, but specifically not "full load" - any ideas how to "fix" it so it will leave without hitting skip?
18:18<@planetmaker>dotwaffle: most likely: improve your signaling
18:19<dotwaffle>planetmaker: signalling?
18:19<@planetmaker>or, if the train carries other cargo, you use full load all and that cargo is not yet 100% loaded
18:19<dotwaffle>planetmaker: sorry, should have made it clearer, it says loading/unloading
18:20<dotwaffle>it's just a floss with 9 passenger cars, all full with 40 pax
18:21<dotwaffle>i.e. max 360 pax, all filled.
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18:23<dotwaffle>what's strange is the order isn't ful load!
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18:24<@planetmaker>dotwaffle: well. Needs more than words, I guess :-) i.e. a savegame
18:25<@planetmaker>Immy: not quite (yet)
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18:27<dotwaffle>planetmaker: - much appreciated!
18:28<dotwaffle>and yes, i suck at rail planning ;)
18:28<@planetmaker>everyone has his own style
18:28<dotwaffle>i don't really have a style, more of a desire for lazyness!
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18:32<dotwaffle>planetmaker: it's quite a headscratcher!
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18:35<Eddi|zuHause>lazyness is also a style! :p
18:37<@planetmaker>dotwaffle: I honestly don't know.
18:37<@planetmaker>The train should just leave the station. It does if you tell it to skip orders
18:37<@planetmaker>interestingly the others do
18:37<dotwaffle>planetmaker: exactly. it's *very weird*
18:38<@planetmaker>oh, no
18:38<@planetmaker>You gave it a timetable
18:38<@planetmaker>and told it to wait in the station for 316 days
18:39<@planetmaker>go to the orders screen of the train and click 'timetable' (upper right)
18:41<@planetmaker>click then on the first order and choose 'clear time'
18:41<@planetmaker>^ dotwafflew
18:43<dotwaffle>got rid of timetable, pressed skip twice, still happens :S
18:44<dotwaffle>(last time i ever press autofill...)
18:45<dotwaffle>it moves! and i have absolutely no idea what i hit! =)
18:45<dotwaffle>thanks a bunch, i appreciate it a lot.
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18:45<dotwaffle>i *thnk* i hit reset late counter
18:46<@planetmaker>of course it moves somewhen...
18:48<dotwaffle>ah, but when train 27 (who shares orders) gets down there... IT WAITS! I have a feeling I'm just being a numpty and wasting your time ;)
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>just reset the counter there as well, it'll sort out eventually
18:49<@planetmaker>yeah. Resetting all time table stuff does the trick
18:49<dotwaffle>yeah, it did that. just need to find if i "experimente" with any other timetables ;)
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19:01<TrueBrain>building NoGo 1.1 :D Whiiee :D :)
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>it always scares me when removing random lines doesn't change the behaviour of the program...
19:04<TrueBrain>you know what should scare you? :D
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>GUI _always_ scares me...
19:13<fjb|tab>OpenGL scares me.
19:15<TrueBrain>a mirror scares me
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19:20<fjb|tab>Did you fall down one of your climbing walls? :-)
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19:53<Eddi|zuHause>is that just my impression or did cets compile time increase even more?
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 16 00:00:33 2011