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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-18

---Logopened Sun Dec 18 00:00:35 2011
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01:42<Rubidium>DemeGeek: that's generally not a good location for the configuration file due to issues with file rights
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03:14<andythenorth>I assume
03:15<Rubidium>oi andy
03:15*andythenorth compiles trunk
03:15<andythenorth>for a game
03:18<Rubidium>how LISBOA? ;)
03:23*andythenorth is experimenting with a reduced sleep regime
03:24<andythenorth>for health reasons only :P
03:37<andythenorth>a better UK road set is needed
03:47<andythenorth>how much extra storage would delivered cargo history for industries require?
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03:57<@planetmaker>andythenorth: FIRS currently stores this and last month in the perm. storage
03:57<andythenorth>this would need to be provided by the game imho
03:58<andythenorth>for a stats GUI ;)
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03:58<@planetmaker>well... it would use 3 words
03:58<andythenorth>and you'd probably want it by company...
03:58<@planetmaker>per industry and company? Nah, that's uninteresting for the industry really
04:00<andythenorth>it's more for the player
04:00<andythenorth>stat porn
04:00<@planetmaker>the industry doesn't know where it gets cargo from
04:01<@planetmaker>nor should it
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04:59<@Terkhen>good morning
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05:10<@Alberth>moin fjb|tab
05:10<fjb|tab>Moin Alberth.
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05:22<LordAro>morning all
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05:53<Wolf01>hello o/
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05:57<@Alberth>moin andy
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07:56<Zuu>Hmm, nobody reported that OTTDAU failed to detect that nogo-0.1 != nogo-1.0 :-)
07:57<Zuu>I strip away the content after the dash because that is most often used for a branch tag which some fail to add both to clients and finger.
07:58<Zuu>So now I've updated it to require the branch tags to be [a-z0-9]*$
07:59<Rubidium>what about the 1.1 branch? ;)
08:00<Zuu>that one had the same problem. But now it works. (if you were refering to nogo)
08:00<Rubidium>no, the stable release branch ;)
08:01<Zuu>Oh, but one doesn't have a dash. In addition it is even supported on the client side.
08:02<Zuu>I have a special case for hg revisions and other things that I didn't think of when I wrote the program. It is in this code where I hand this problem, so it doesn't even affect the official realeases.
08:07<LordAro>woo, edge cases :)
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08:23<@Alberth>programming is all about covering all edge cases :)
08:24<frosch123>though sometimes only about covering all edge cases you expect the customer to test
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09:04<TrueBrain>Zuu: just remember that nogo-1.0 is something I made up :p I know others use name_version (_ instead of -) :P
09:04<TrueBrain>it is nowhere near official or anything :)
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10:09<Zuu>TrueBrain: I know, and at some point someone will make something up that will break the current rules...
10:11<TrueBrain>now you are just challening me :D
10:11<Zuu>hehe :-p
10:11<Zuu>Eg -r1, -r2, etc. would break the current rules.
10:12<Zuu>or even -1 -2 -3 etc.
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10:13<Zuu>The hardest would be someone using named versions like eg -orange -banana .. etc.
10:13<valhallasw>as long as it's alphabetical ;-)
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>what if you reach version 26?
10:14<TrueBrain>Zuu: sounds like a plan :D
10:15<Zuu>in that case I would need to check if client/finger both has something after a dash and in that case not strip it away. (or just strip away if one source misses it)
10:16<Zuu>... or suggest that cargodist is fixed to include -cd in both sources :-)
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10:28<kais58>anyone know how to setup newgrfs for a dedicated server?
10:29<V453000>create a savegame in single player and then load the savegame on the server
10:29<@Alberth>make a config with a normal version, and move it to the server
10:30<kais58>ok, thanks
10:31*andythenorth wonders if CHIPS is broken with AIs
10:31<LordAro>i think nocab uses newgrf stations
10:32<LordAro>possibly AIAI too
10:46<Zuu>There is a AI API to build cargo specific stations. It probably takes a cargo id/type as argument in addition to the usual arguments.
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10:48<@Yexo>andythenorth: CHIPS is not broken, we just never implemented cb 16
10:48<andythenorth>ta fa
10:48<@Yexo>ehm, 18
10:48<andythenorth>and the mystery was solved :)
10:48<@Yexo>main problem with that callback: the only useful information we get is the cargo type
10:49<@Yexo>CHIPS stations don't really depend on the cargo type, but ore on the industry
10:49<andythenorth>tis true
10:49<@Yexo>but we only get the substitute type in case of newgrf industries
10:49<@Yexo>that means we can't properly match the ground type to the industry
10:49<@Yexo>unless FIRS was changed so the substitute industry type would depend on the ground type the industry has
10:49<andythenorth>doesn't matter to me :P
10:50<@Yexo>but that's abuse of the substitute type
10:50<andythenorth>I don't play with AI on
10:50<@Yexo>if you don't care about matching groundtypes, a simple cb 18 implementation that always returns the same station type would be simple
10:50*andythenorth exhibits "I'm alright Jack" attitude :D
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11:43*Zuu is amazed that cloning of vehicels appear to have been broken for several days before it got reported/fixed
11:44<frosch123>actually i encountered it myself yesterday :p it was repored while i was fixing it :p
11:45<@Alberth>not many people playing nightlies, I guess
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11:46<Zuu>at least not between the weekends
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11:50<frick>How does a road vehicle pick up resources from a train station, and more importantly, CAN it?
11:50<Zuu>Using transfer orders
11:51<Zuu>Actually, it is the train that should use the transfer order.
11:51<Zuu>If you want to transfer cargo from a train to the truck that is.
11:51<Rubidium>and make sure the road stop and station are part of the same station, i.e. they have the same name
11:51<Rubidium>and the station flag should have a train and truck icon before the name
11:52<Zuu>You can use ctrl+click when building the second station and select the first one in the list that pops up.
11:52<Zuu>Another way is to build the second station adjacent to the first one.
11:52<frick>Finally, an IRC channel where people answer -_-
11:59<@Terkhen>depends on the time you ask :P
12:00<@Terkhen>people coming at night (in europe) usually don't have much luck
12:17*TrueBrain kick CIA-6
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12:36<kais58>is a UDP connection to the server required for newgrfs to work?
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>UDP is only used for getting the server list and server info. after you click "join server", everything is TCP
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13:21<IchGuckLive>hi all after 13 years of hard work i managed to get all places connected and own 10mio what whoudt be the next step
13:21<IchGuckLive>i guess get all factorys and buyable industries to the citys
13:22<IchGuckLive>getting the production above 80%
13:22<IchGuckLive>and try to fill the hole map ?
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>get all industries to maximum production (for mines this is something around 2000-4000, for factories it's something around 25000-35000)
13:25<IchGuckLive>what shoudt i spend the money most
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13:49<@Alberth>you can also use the cheat to get rid of excess money :p
13:50<valhallasw>or build some awesome tunnels from one side of the map to the other
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>once upon a time those gave negative costs :p
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13:53<Eddi|zuHause>(i used this once because my money overflowed)
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>hm... openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp:2086: Town* AirportGetNearestTown(const AirportSpec*, byte, TileIndex): Assertion `layout < as->num_table' failed.
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>trying to load a TTD/TTO savegame
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13:57<frosch123>oilrig conversion broken again?
13:57<TrueBrain>TTD, TTO or TTDp? :)
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13:58<frosch123>hmm, i can load a tto game with oilrigs
13:59<TrueBrain>I guess if he links the savegame, it would be easiest so solve ;)
13:59<TrueBrain>so? to!
13:59<TrueBrain>they are not even close to eachother ..
13:59<frosch123>hmm, its a ttd game, no tto
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14:01<Eddi|zuHause>how do i identify the savegame file?
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14:02<frosch123>no idea
14:03<frosch123>move them to different dirs?
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14:07<Eddi|zuHause>it should possibly display the filename in the info field :p
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14:13<Rubidium>might tell the filename
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>looks like updating trunk fixed it, though
14:14<frosch123>yeah, we had some bug like that 3 week ago :p
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>tiles under bridges get converted to dirt, not grass
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>anything we can do to "fix" the "broken" town names?
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>(i.e. implement a (hidden) town name generator that reproduces the old names?)
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>and what happened to my static newgrfs?
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14:24<Eddi|zuHause>this is almost definitely a bug: TTO savegames don't get static newgrfs
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14:32<Eddi|zuHause>and shouldn't the rails get converted to electric automatically?
14:34<frosch123>there is a disable elrail setting
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14:58<Eddi|zuHause>but it's not enabled, as far as i can tell
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14:59<TrueBrain>Zuu: NoGo 1.3 is being compiled now. Contains the new widget names and some 'extra' :D Only thing left to do: Tutorial-gui thingy, and you can make a nice tutorial script :D Although you already can do it for most part ;)
15:00<Zuu>1.3? where did 1.2 go?
15:00<TrueBrain>I fucked up :D
15:00<TrueBrain>forgot the 'bump' patch, so 1.2 is broken beyond believe :P
15:01<Zuu>okay, sure I did silly things with CluelessPlus 31 so I had to make 32 directly after. :-)
15:01<TrueBrain>it happens :D
15:02<TrueBrain>and please do try the translation stuff Rubidium mostly made available :D:D
15:02<TrueBrain>as far as I can see, it works very very well, but .. I am biased :P
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15:06<@Alberth>TrueBrain: do as people do in the first forum posts: "reserved for future use" :)
15:06<TrueBrain>for what? :P
15:07<TrueBrain>I never understand those posts :P
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>those are usually to work around the three-attachments-limit
15:07<Zuu>If you have moderator powres I gues you can insert a post there if you need to post more than 3 files at the beginning :-)
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>you could instead just make a new post, and link to the attachments from the first post
15:09<TrueBrain>I have no attachments ....
15:09<TrueBrain>I dont know why Alberth said it (out of the blue for me :P)
15:10*Alberth was thinking to claim 1.2 "for future use" :)
15:10<Rubidium>yeah, openttd 1.2 ofcourse ;)
15:10<TrueBrain>lol @ Alberth
15:10<TrueBrain>"veel verder gedacht dan ik" :D
15:11<Zuu>Rubidium: So now OpenTTD 1.3 will be impossible?
15:12<Zuu>Sounds interesting with translations transmitted over the network. @ NoGo 1.3
15:15<TrueBrain>it is :P
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>we seriously need to improve nmlc's performance...
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15:29<Zuu>Hmm, when starting a new NoGo game with 1.3 I had it crash at first step in world generation. Will upload the crash.* files.
15:30<Zuu>Or should I compile myself to have the debugger?
15:30<Zuu>(I used the bananas binary)
15:31<Zuu>It is possible that there is a bug in my code, as I only started OpenTTD after having done some coding myself.
15:34<+glx>Zuu: windows ?
15:34<+glx>then the pdb is available at the same place as you got the exe :)
15:36<+glx>on custom/nogo/nogo-1.3
15:37<Zuu>Yes. Though, I have always found it easier to compile + debug live than using the dump+pdb files.
15:38<+glx>dump+pdb is nice to get an idea of what failed
15:39<appe>did anyone of you guys play E.V.O recently?
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16:24<TrueBrain>Zuu: without a translation, GS crashes :D
16:24<TrueBrain>I tested it on all changes, except the last :D
16:24<Zuu>Oh, so that's why
16:24<TrueBrain>at least, that crashes here directly :P
16:24<TrueBrain>haven't loaded your dmp yet
16:25<TrueBrain>dunno if you have a backtrace?
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16:27<Zuu>I can create one if you wants that. (I only have to start OpenTTD and select a GS without translations)
16:28<Zuu>After adding a lang directory and an empty english.txt it did not crash.
16:28<TrueBrain>that backtrace I ahve :)
16:28<TrueBrain>k k :)
16:28<TrueBrain>then that is the same ;)
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>now i almost certainly refactored it to death :p
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17:30<Zuu>TrueBrain: In the docs only some of the Widget enums that show at the top are clickable. Those that aren't don't show up at the end. They also seem to not exist in OpenTTD.
17:30<Zuu>At least this code did not work:
17:30<Zuu> main_instance.AddStep(GUIHighlightStep(GSWindow.WC_MAIN_TOOLBAR, GSWindow.TBN_ROADS));
17:31<Zuu>It complained that TBN_ROADS doesn't exist.
17:31<TrueBrain>Zuu: check the naming
17:31<TrueBrain>like I said, we changed the naming heavily
17:32<TrueBrain>owh, I should update the docs I guess :D
17:32<Zuu>I know that you have updated the naming, that's why I waited for 1.3, but aparently the docs was not updated yet :-)
17:33<TrueBrain>Zuu: been kept busy by some devs with bugs and coding style :D
17:33<@Terkhen>good night
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17:37<TrueBrain>Zuu: 2 things just happened. 1) I did update the docs (sorry sorry sorry sorry)
17:37<TrueBrain>2) I released 1.4 :P
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17:52<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23587 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen_base.cpp: -Fix-ish: MSVC warnings in case strgen would be in the main project file
17:53<TrueBrain>lol @ CIA-6
17:53<TrueBrain>YOU ARE SLOW
17:54<Zuu>TrueBrain: Why can I highlight the main toolbar using window = 0, but the event has window = 1?
17:57<TrueBrain>I don't follow?
17:57<TrueBrain>the click event?
17:57<TrueBrain>that is weird
17:58<Zuu>It seems that I don't get events for non-highlighted buttons, so as long as I only highlight one, I should be safe to just ignore the window in the event.
17:58<Zuu>Another thing is that after the user has clicked on the road toolbar button, it keeps flashing.
17:58<Zuu>I don't know if the issue is related to the fact that it opens a menu.
17:59<TrueBrain>by documentation, the event only triggers on highlights, yes
17:59<Zuu>hmm, probably not, as the event is fired when you press down the mouse button.
17:59<TrueBrain>flashing only stops if you tell it to :)
18:00<Zuu>Using Close?
18:00<Zuu>Or calling Highlight again?
18:00<TrueBrain>highlight with color invalid
18:01<TrueBrain>butI guess it would make sense to stop the highlight when you click on it
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18:02<Zuu>No problem for me to do that in the event handler now that I know how to do it. :-)
18:03<TrueBrain>it is documented ;)
18:03<Zuu>I found it out now when you said so.
18:05<Zuu>But you did get my point with Highlight(window, 0, widget, TC_YELLOW) and then in the event the window number is 1.
18:05<Zuu>where in this case the window is the main toolbar and the button is the road button.
18:06<TrueBrain>class / number / index, it should be correct
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18:07<TrueBrain>it you can give me a simple test GS, that would be very helpful
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18:18<Zuu>sorry, I just read the docs wrong. Didn't saw the GetWindowClass function of the event and though that the WindowNumber function was the window id/class.
18:19<TrueBrain>why do I write documentation :P :P Hihi :)
18:19<TrueBrain>how come you misread? The documentation unclear, or?
18:19<Zuu>I did read it, just wrong :-)
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18:20<Zuu> <-- no padding (non-bold text) between first and second member causing me to only read the last two items I think.
18:20<TrueBrain>I can see that
18:21<TrueBrain>hard to fix, sadly
18:21<TrueBrain>but I understand
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18:23<Zuu>And probably because I've lately worked with another window/widget toolkit (wxWidgets) which doesn't have window "class" in the core.
18:23<TrueBrain>hehe :D
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18:41<Zuu>How does one know which window number to use? Is there a pattern or does a GS have to scann over 0 to n for a given window class to figure out which window number to use?
18:46<@Yexo>you'll have to read the source code
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19:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: smatz * r23588 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use the 'final' keyword so compiler can optimise out some indirect calls
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19:14<CIA-6>OpenTTD: frosch * r23589 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_config.cpp ai/ai_gui.cpp lang/english.txt): -Codechange: Make the AI-start-delay setting translateable.
19:14<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23590 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make the string validation settings better expandable
19:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23591 /trunk/src/lang/ (english_US.txt french.txt serbian.txt):
19:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
19:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium
19:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: french - 1 changes by glx
19:15<CIA-6>OpenTTD: serbian - 51 changes by etran
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19:26<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23592 /trunk/src/fontcache.cpp: -Fix (r23590): forgot one case
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19:48<Eddi|zuHause>odd time for a translators commit
19:48<@Yexo>CIA-6 is lagging
19:48<__ln__>by several hours
19:48<Eddi|zuHause>i figured :)
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 19 00:00:37 2011