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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-19

---Logopened Mon Dec 19 00:00:37 2011
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03:19<dihedral>greetings
03:30<__ln__>the great leader is dead
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04:04<@planetmaker>And the magazine "Der Spiegel" got it wrong: showing a news woman from North Korea in black clothing with a text which hints that the black cloths she wears are an indication of grief...
04:04<@planetmaker>and sorrow... albeit white is the colour of sorrow and grief in Korea
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04:22<@peter1138>planetmaker, did you not recognise those 32bpp sprites by their incorrect height? :)
04:23<@planetmaker>in the "wrong company colour" posting?
04:23<@planetmaker>not really
04:23<@peter1138>in Re: [8bpp] Graphics Replacement Project - OpenGFX
04:23<@peter1138>oh yeah, company colour problem
04:24<@planetmaker>I don't know what he used, but trunk and normal OpenGFX, also with 32bpp-anim don't have that issue
04:24<@peter1138>install 32bpp-ez sprites
04:24<@peter1138>then you'll see it
04:24<@peter1138>:)
04:24<@planetmaker>meh...
04:24<@peter1138>with trunk & normal opengfx
04:24<@peter1138>it highlights the need for a coherent 32bpp pack
04:25<@planetmaker>wait, I install the EZ sprites and that has an impact on trunk even if they're not used?
04:25<@peter1138>it contains normal zoom sprites too...
04:25<@planetmaker>ah, ok
04:25<@planetmaker>obviously very broken as they're tailored for a patch which is also broken
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04:26<@peter1138>i don't know how that recolour algorithm affects old-style 8bpp recolouring
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04:28<@planetmaker>Dunno... but it's a bad idea nevertheless, if it affects it
04:28<@peter1138>hmm?
04:29<@peter1138>that's what i mean, i don't know if it does. if it does, i'm not touching it :)
04:29<@planetmaker>exactly :-)
04:30<@peter1138>i could mutilate the mask image to provide more information
04:30<@peter1138>would be harder to make the mask image though :(
04:31<@peter1138>r = palette index (hue/bri/sat), g = brightness mod, b = saturation mod
04:31<@peter1138>hmm
04:31<@peter1138>actually that wouldn't work because the rgbam format wouldn't be enough
04:33<@peter1138>you could store that information in the normal rgb part, however that's used for pre-caching the rgb value when drawing non-recoloured sprites, i.e. the majority of cases
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04:35<@planetmaker>I posted a hint that they might review all their CC in the 32bpp sprites
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04:52<@peter1138>planetmaker, welll
04:52<@peter1138>planetmaker, they're not broken like that with the 32bpp-ez patch... o_O
04:54<@peter1138>e.g. http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=153355
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04:54<@peter1138>recolouring is still dodgy though
04:54<@peter1138>the far left engine appears to be a different hue
04:55<@planetmaker>peter1138: that may be true. But I'm not interested in compatibility with the EZ patch
04:55<@planetmaker>Especially if the EZ patch breaks sprite display in trunk
05:11*dihedral greebles peter1138
05:21*peter1138 nurnies dihedral
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05:36<@peter1138>hmm, do fences normally draw ontop of signals?
05:37<@peter1138>yes they do :S
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06:36<@peter1138>hmm
06:36<@peter1138>i have an original starwars action figure here
06:36<@peter1138>i wonder why
06:38<Eddi|zuHause>'cause you're a fanboy
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06:40<fjb|tab>As long as he is not Dark Helmet...
06:40<@peter1138>it's Niem Numb
06:40<@peter1138>i had to look that up
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06:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes. sure. i'd have said that, too. :p
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08:05<andythenorth>hello
08:05<@Alberth>hi hi
08:06*andythenorth is playing a game where most vehicles move at 15mph, or 40mph
08:06<andythenorth>the 70mph train looks insanely fast by comparison
08:06<appe>:)
08:06<appe>that's how it should be
08:06<appe>games with way to fast trains quickly become boring
08:06<andythenorth>also the FIRS milk chain is flawed
08:09-!-LordPixaII is now known as Pixa
08:11<@planetmaker>it doesn't grew sour? ;-)
08:11<andythenorth>there's nowhere to take it before 1892
08:11<@Alberth>Phew, east and west are at the right place :p
08:11<@planetmaker>hm :S
08:11<andythenorth>and only after that if a Dairy happens to get built
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08:11<@planetmaker>so it should go directly to shops...
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08:12<@planetmaker>screw industry view and use acceptance callback :P
08:12<andythenorth>planetmaker: tile acceptance....?
08:12<andythenorth>tiles offer quite some flexibility....?
08:12<@planetmaker>I'd need to re-visit the details there
08:12<andythenorth>this wouldn't be processed, it would be a black hole so...
08:13<@planetmaker>ah
08:13<@planetmaker>well.
08:13<@planetmaker>would work
08:13<@planetmaker>but... doesn't pay
08:14<@planetmaker>And I doubt that people in 1800 took their milk to a nearby town and then used it to clean the market place
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08:15<andythenorth>hmm
08:16*andythenorth has been awake a lot and is short of solutions
08:16<andythenorth>maybe just introduce dairies earlier
08:20<@planetmaker>if you internet connect times are true and not just your machine you didn't sleep much ;-)
08:20<@planetmaker>s/internet/irc/ ;-)
08:21<andythenorth>it's about accurate I'd say
08:21<@planetmaker>though... I didn't either. I had to finish building the Imperial Shuttle jointly with a friend of mine: http://shop.lego.com/de-DE/Imperial-Shuttle-10212
08:22<@planetmaker>took us from 11pm to about 3am
08:22<@planetmaker>well. 10pm actually
08:24<andythenorth>:o
08:24<andythenorth>that's insanely expensive Lego
08:24<andythenorth>even allowing for the state of the Euro
08:25<@planetmaker>he bought it 2nd hand.
08:25<@planetmaker>but yes, it is
08:25<andythenorth>this is the most expensive Lego I ever bought http://shop.lego.com/de-DE/Mercedes-Benz-Unimog-U-400-8110
08:26<@planetmaker>it was not that expensive. iirc ~150€ or so
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08:26<@planetmaker>next probject will be either the DeathStar2 or the SuperStarDestroyer ;-)
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08:27<@planetmaker>but... the DeathStar is really expensive.... http://www.yatego.com/aldiho-de/p,4d810b6deb9e5,4d6bb16431bd38_9,lego-star-wars-10143-todesstern-ii--neu
08:28<@Alberth>andythenorth: star wars fans are old enough and crazy enough to put up that much money :p
08:28<@planetmaker>but it's another 1k parts more ;-)
08:29<@planetmaker>well, it's cool. You have a crank to lower or rise the wings even ;-)
08:29<Noldo>must be somewhat boring to build
08:30<@planetmaker>not really
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08:31<andythenorth>the DeathStar looks *awesome*
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08:36<@peter1138>hi
08:36<andythenorth>hola
08:37<@peter1138>have you finished it yet?
08:37<andythenorth>yes
08:37<andythenorth>it's done
08:37<@peter1138>awesome
08:38<andythenorth>it is pretty good
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08:38<@peter1138>good o
08:39<@peter1138>hmm
08:39<andythenorth>you found a way to make it better?
08:39<@peter1138>yes i have
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08:39<andythenorth>distribute cargo to industries on a round-robin basis?
08:39<andythenorth>rather than nearest?
08:39<andythenorth>allowing one station to serve two industries?
08:40<@peter1138>no, no, i built a line to barborough
08:46<andythenorth>hmm
08:46<andythenorth>FISH doesn't auto-refit
08:46<andythenorth>this is probably incorrect
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08:50<@planetmaker>I'd probably allow three or four ship types: pax, piece, bulk and liquid.
08:50<@planetmaker>autorefit for everything within that category
08:50<@planetmaker>s/types/refit 'classes'/g
08:51<andythenorth>I'll probably treat piece / bulk same for ships
08:51<@peter1138>ships need to support multiple cargo types
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08:54<andythenorth>peter1138: multiple in one ship?
08:54<andythenorth>I mean...they already do support multiple types
08:54<@peter1138>yeah
08:54<andythenorth>but using XOR :P
08:54<@peter1138>obviously :p
08:55<andythenorth>n or 2 types?
08:55<andythenorth>2 appeals to me
08:55<@peter1138>n
08:55<andythenorth>meh
08:55<@peter1138>32 i guess :p
08:55<andythenorth>where's the constraint?
08:55<andythenorth>constraints = good
08:55<andythenorth>number of holds?
08:55<andythenorth>might be interesting
08:56<andythenorth>newgrf specified amount per ship, up to 32?
08:56<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/rgbam.png
08:57<@peter1138>^ 32bpp recolouring :S
08:57<andythenorth>hmm
08:57<andythenorth>something appears to be eating my orders
08:57<andythenorth>they're changing
08:57<@peter1138>^ obvious where it switches to 8bpp
08:58<@peter1138>refit ship holds? hmm
08:58<@peter1138>articulated ships...
08:59<andythenorth>vehicles in vehicles
09:00<andythenorth>mornington crescent :P
09:00<@planetmaker>what's wrong with that re-colouring, peter1138? The dizzering in the CC colours (e.g. of the building)?
09:01<@peter1138>dithering
09:01<@peter1138>the 32bpp artists don't like it, and i can understand
09:01<andythenorth>they should fix their lighting before they complain to others :P
09:01<@peter1138>well yes
09:02<@peter1138>i don't think they're complaining
09:03<@planetmaker>Arguably it doesn't look great. Indeed
09:07<@peter1138>http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/scale.png
09:07<@peter1138>lol
09:07<@peter1138>i should post that in the thread :)
09:07<appe>haha
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09:09<andythenorth>it's nice
09:09<andythenorth>hmm
09:09<andythenorth>FIRS station algorithm is way too generous
09:09<andythenorth>how to fix it?
09:10<+glx>some offsets look wrong
09:10<@peter1138>not just offsets :)
09:11<@planetmaker>it's a good screenshot which teaches a lot :-)
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09:11<@Belugas>Hello
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09:12<@planetmaker>hi Belugas
09:12<andythenorth>can I demolish lighthouses?
09:17<@peter1138>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=986097#p986097
09:17<@peter1138>(using original graphics, not opengfx)
09:17<@peter1138>one could argue that the original graphics are too low, heh
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09:18<@peter1138>possibly opengfx changes that, but i can't see because of the fence, heh
09:22<andythenorth>hmm
09:22<andythenorth>trains are all well and good
09:22<andythenorth>but you can transport a lot more cargo per route-tile with ships :P
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09:24<CIA-6>OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23593 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp road_cmd.cpp): -Fix (r23411): Infrastructure counts for rail were not properly updated when converting rail or building level crossings.
09:25<@peter1138>andythenorth, i've not seen any 32bpp-ez ships
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09:26<@peter1138>i've seen some screenshots with 32bpp-ez aircraft, but i've not got any with the mega
09:26<@peter1138>pack
09:39<andythenorth>is there any known bug with vehicles losing orders right now
09:39<andythenorth>tip trunk
09:40<andythenorth>possibly whilst being ctrl-cloned
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09:42<Eddi|zuHause>articulated trucks?
09:43<andythenorth>ships
09:43<andythenorth>possibly trams and trains
09:43<andythenorth>haven't tried to prove it wasn't user error
09:44<andythenorth>also
09:44<andythenorth>canal tunnels?
09:48<Eddi|zuHause>unlikely
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09:52<andythenorth>the problem with starting FIRS early is that you then have to fund the later industries yourself :(
09:53<Eddi|zuHause>don't they have random chance of appearing?
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>maybe you should close the least used industry every X months
09:54<Eddi|zuHause>to have more room for industry appearance
09:54<andythenorth>not possible
09:54<andythenorth>with newgrf
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09:58<Eddi|zuHause>don't you have a per-grf-storage?
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10:02<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: one of the problems is that at the start of the game all industries are unused, ie all are the least used one
10:03<andythenorth>no per-grf storage either
10:03<@Yexo>don't towns have per-grf storage?
10:05<andythenorth>possibly
10:05<andythenorth>I didn't keep up with how much town stuff is in trunk yet
10:05<@peter1138>hmm, oil wells three tiles from a refinery
10:05<@peter1138>i could build one stop and send the vehicle in a loop...
10:05<andythenorth>pipeline
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't work with one station
10:06<andythenorth>I don't buy the "it's a transport game - no pipelines" argument
10:06<andythenorth>it's got at least one problem, that argument :P
10:06<@peter1138>teleporters
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well, develop a system which is not a "set up once, infinite moneymaker"
10:07<@peter1138>£15 per journey :p
10:07<andythenorth>what - pipelines have infinite capacity?
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and have it include ski lifts, etc.
10:07<andythenorth>and don't need pumping stations?
10:07<andythenorth>and don't have run costs?
10:07<andythenorth>and can pump at an infinite rate per unit time?
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: "infinite" i mean time-wise
10:07<andythenorth>unlike ships?
10:08<@peter1138>i don't think the model fits ttd
10:09*andythenorth thinks egrvts - wonderful set - but far too many vehicles
10:09<andythenorth>Yexo: could we adjust FIRS station rating algo?
10:09<@Yexo>sure
10:09<@Yexo>just give me a precise definition of what you want and I'll code it
10:10*andythenorth reads current code
10:10<andythenorth>probably better to specify result, not implementation?
10:11<andythenorth>what I actually want is to drop the rating where stations have > 1,000t waiting
10:11<andythenorth>however that needs a bit more thought
10:11<@planetmaker>sounds like default, andythenorth ;-)
10:11<andythenorth>indeed
10:12<@planetmaker>actually "waiting cargo" is imho not a good measure. Rather waiting cargo / turn-over-amount per month
10:12<andythenorth>yes
10:12<andythenorth>we did solve it once before I think, conceptually
10:13<@Yexo>turn-over-amount per month <- not sure that is available
10:15<andythenorth>are we doing it with cb145?
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10:15<andythenorth>I can't find the code
10:16<@planetmaker>Yexo: I think it is not available
10:16<@Yexo>andythenorth: code is in cargo_graphics.pnml
10:16<@planetmaker>might be feasible, if stations have persistent storage
10:17<@Yexo>might be better to let openttd keep track of it, and just provide a new var for it
10:17<andythenorth>are we ok with the idea that there's no perfect answer to this?
10:17<andythenorth>as I'm proposing to balance it closest to the sets I use
10:17<andythenorth>and the typical capacity of trains I run :P
10:18<@Yexo>it depends more on your playstyle and on the actual sets you use
10:19<andythenorth>I can tweak values locally and test
10:19<andythenorth>I want to sink the rating faster for > 1,000t waiting
10:19<@Yexo>you can't change how fast the rating changes
10:19<@Yexo>you can only set the desired rating for > 1000t waiting
10:19<andythenorth>faster / greater penalty /s
10:20<andythenorth>poor english on my part :P
10:21<andythenorth>the current algorithm is really fun, but I can't clear some stations
10:21<andythenorth>actually there are two issues
10:21<andythenorth>1) accidentally delivering to a station will result in cargo that takes forever to die
10:21<andythenorth>that's a minor point
10:22<@planetmaker>personally I'm not even sure it's a good idea to mess with station ratings too much
10:22<@planetmaker>It's a non-obvious thing to the players and cause suprises
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: 1) can be solved if you give a timeout like 3 months
10:22<andythenorth>2) I'm getting 'good' ratings even where there are obscene amounts of cargo waiting (due to frequent pickup)
10:23<@Yexo>andythenorth: but the new rating was designed to give somewhat higher ratings than the default rating
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>or even 6 months
10:23<andythenorth>Yexo: I'm hoping it's just a matter of tweaking
10:23<andythenorth>I don't really understand the spec enough for this
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>and then _drastically_ dropping the rating
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>the throughput per month idea is a feature request on openttd's side
10:25<andythenorth>there's *no* way to get the age of the cargo *on* the station is there?
10:26<andythenorth>var 63?
10:26<andythenorth>hmm
10:27<andythenorth>not
10:29<@Yexo>indeed, no way to get that information
10:31*andythenorth misses how often cb145 runs?
10:32<@Yexo>every time the staion rating is recalculated, I think every 2,5 days
10:33<V453000>andythenorth: when can we expect a new release of FIRS? :)
10:34<andythenorth>Yexo: I think all I need to do is increase penalty for large amounts of waiting cargo
10:34<andythenorth>V453000: unkown
10:35<V453000>I was just wondering about the toyland compatibility, in r2654 it loads in toyland, but 0.6.4 doesnt
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10:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: cargo doesn't age at stations
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>simple amount of cargo is unsuitible for large transfer stations
10:56<andythenorth>hmm
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. a high-producing factory, or the city's main station
10:56<andythenorth>if you can figure it out...let me know :)
10:56<andythenorth>I'm open to suggestions
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>well, imho planetmaker had the right idea there
10:56<andythenorth>has anyone else tried the modified FIRS algorithm?
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>"just" needs implementation
10:57<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't looked at it, but it can't be more than 20loc
10:58<Eddi|zuHause>that is, modifying the existing off-map station statistic storage, adding saveload code, and adding newgrf-export code
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>where the latter needs some consideration whether to stuff it into "extra callback info" or provide some new variable
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11:02<swissfan91>Is it possible to have town buildings on sloped tiles? Or do they always just take foundations to be a flat tile?
11:02<@Yexo>you can disable foundations for them
11:04<swissfan91>per house? Or just disable foundations for the whole set?
11:04<@Yexo>per house
11:04<@Yexo>and even more precise than that if you want to, it's a callback
11:05<swissfan91>more precise? how so?
11:06<@Yexo>in 1930 no foundations, from 1940 on it has foundations except when it's very close to the city center <- something like that if you wanted to
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11:07<swissfan91>but surely if I have drawn the house on a flat tile, it must have foundations?
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>the game doesn't know how you've drawn it
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>it'll happily draw whatever sprite you give it.
11:08<@Yexo>if it must have foundations make sure to write your newgrf in a way that tells openttd that your house needs foundations
11:08<swissfan91>I see, ok.
11:19<@peter1138><Invoice><Invoice_No>xxx</Invoice_No><Customer_No>yyy</Customer_No>No Match</Invoice>
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>IKS EMM ELL!
11:19<@peter1138>^ using .net's xml stuff, how do i get "No Match" out of that? :S
11:19<@peter1138>regexes don't count
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>invoice.text=="no match"?
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>something along those lines, i guess...
11:21<@peter1138>no, that returns "xxxyyyNo Match"
11:21<SpComb>go punch the person who wrote it
11:22<@peter1138>that was my immediate reaction
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>hm, there must be some way to strip all sub-elements
11:23<andythenorth>for i in Invoice, if I is not childnode?
11:23<andythenorth>return i
11:26<@peter1138>#text
11:39<TrueBrain>lol @ XML, funny people ... :)
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12:03<frosch123>wow... my webmail provider offers me to increase the storage space from 12MB to 500MB... i just have to install some software
12:08<@peter1138>erm... right
12:09<Eddi|zuHause>"no. that is no rootkit. that is... diagnosis software!!"
12:10<frosch123>there is a bug in today's xkcd
12:11<@peter1138>yeah, "gray"
12:12<Prof_Frink>Also, what's wrong with just BODMAS?
12:12<appe>https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-S0x8DeRN_mc/Tu9liSUZIZI/AAAAAAAABMg/N33gcsCBc-4/s1280/CharlesJSykes.jpg
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12:13<@peter1138>BODMAS?
12:13<@peter1138>ah
12:13<Prof_Frink>First one.
12:14<@peter1138>americans don't like to call them brackets, i think
12:14<Prof_Frink>Of course, you do have to say brackets and square brackets, not parenthetheesesetheses.
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12:25<appe>a parenthesis is a "(", even in america?
12:29<@Alberth>after december 21, who knows? it looks like an attempt to pirate the "(" letter to me :p
12:32<Prof_Frink>Arr.
12:33<frosch123>sopa is postponed
12:33<frosch123>they will try again on valentines day
12:33<frosch123>they must find some day when noone is looking
12:39<fjb|tab>frosch123: I got that strange offer from eeb.de too.
12:40<fjb|tab>Web.de
12:40<frosch123>call the hotline and ask why you cannot execute the binary?
12:40<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23594 /trunk/src/ (industrytype.h vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: follow coding style with multi line comments
12:42<fjb|tab>Did you see what they are charging? I was wondering if that was s fske mail.
12:42<frosch123>their "mailcheck" tool is some stupid browser plugin which displays their ugly emoticons depending on if you have mail or not
12:43<frosch123>the other features are undocumented
12:45<fjb|tab>And why should I install that? I'm using a proper email client any way.
12:45<frosch123>so am i :)
12:47<fjb|tab>Very strange...
12:48<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23595 /trunk/src/ (42 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: add comma after last enum to get a more uniform coding style
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12:49<@peter1138>the lure of emoticons appears to work for lots of people :(
12:50<appe>what do you mean?
12:50<frosch123>well, there are normal emoticons, and there are damn-ugly ones
12:50<@Alberth>sure, you'd be surprised how much stuff people are prepared to do just to get something 'free'
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13:17<swissfan91>has anyone tried using the DACH train set?
13:18<V453000>o/
13:20<swissfan91>I am having a real issue with the SBB 'lok2000' and push/pull - a bug to do with this loco is named in the readme, I was wondering if anyone else had any trouble?
13:30-!-Brianetta [~brian@188-220-91-30.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd
13:30<@Terkhen>hello
13:31<swissfan91>hello Terkhen
13:37-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@host48-239-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd
13:37<Wolf01>o/
13:39<@Terkhen>hi Wolf01
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13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23596 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
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13:55<Wolf01>it's impressive how the number of visitors of my site is raised from 4/w to 24/w
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13:58<TrueBrain>4 per window?
13:58<TrueBrain>4 per whale?
13:58<Wolf01>wombat
13:58<TrueBrain>4 per ... hmm .. I can't make anything out of the w :P
13:59<TrueBrain>the animal?
13:59<Zuu>world?
13:59<Wolf01>24/world may me really correct
13:59<Wolf01>*be
14:00<TrueBrain>still no clue how that related to number of visitors, but meh :)
14:00<fjb|tab>24/Wolf01
14:00<Rubidium>so it's 48/f ;)
14:02<Wolf01>f?
14:02<Rubidium>oh come on... you don't know furlong per fortight?
14:03<Wolf01>ahah
14:05<Wolf01>I remember I heared furlong once in a horse race
14:20<@peter1138>heard :D
14:21<@Belugas>48f, f48... that's quite closed
14:21<appe>http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/photo/1124586_460s.jpg
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14:35<Wolf01>appe +1
14:37<Wolf01>thank you peter1138, I have always problems with R and E keys :P
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15:44<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23597 /trunk/src/script/ (3 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: fix up squirrel export script a bit
15:44<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23598 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: harden FormatString against abuse
15:44<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23599 /trunk/src/window_type.h: -Codechange: document WC_ entries, and reoder a bit
15:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23600 /trunk/src/ (55 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: link WC+number to a Widget, and the Widget to a Window class
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15:50<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23601 /trunk/src/ (19 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: fix the conflict in window number
15:50<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23602 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h company_type.h): -Add: support for DEITY commands, commands where no real company was involved in (Rubidium)
15:50<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23603 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: support for control commands in strings, in both network and safe/load (Rubidium)
15:50<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23604 /trunk/ (35 files in 8 dirs): -Add: initial support for GameScripts
15:54<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23605 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Add: GAME_DIR and CONTENT_TYPE_GAME, and read gamescript from that directory
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15:55<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23606 /trunk/ (18 files in 4 dirs): -Add: GameScanner, to auto-detect game scripts, and wire it in the console
15:56<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23607 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 5 dirs): -Add: wire GameScript in all the GUIs
15:56<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23608 /trunk/src/lang/ (54 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: remove now unused strings from all other languages too
15:56<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23609 /trunk/ (11 files in 5 dirs): -Add: save/load all GameScript related material
15:56<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23610 /trunk/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Add: Doxygen files for NoGo API (Yexo)
15:56<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23611 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 4 dirs): -Add: run the begin of the script already while generating, and don't sleep on DoCommand while doing so
15:57<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23612 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 6 dirs): -Add: allow importing libraries in the same way as AI does, only with GS prefix (and in game/library)
15:57<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23613 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Add: allow IsDeveloperOnly in info.nut, to indicate if you can select this GS via the GUI (optional, defaults to false)
15:57<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23614 /trunk/src/ (41 files in 3 dirs): -Add: more API functions exposed to NoGo (part 1)
15:57<Zuu>:-)
15:57<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23615 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 4 dirs): -Add: more API functions exposed to NoGo (part 2)
15:57<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23616 /trunk/src/script/api/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Add: ScriptGameSettings::SetValue, to set gamesettings (GameScript only)
15:58<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23617 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Add: ScriptTown::ExpandTown, to grow a town (GameScript only)
15:58<Zuu>My RSS reader is going to overflow :-)
15:59<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23618 /trunk/ (14 files in 9 dirs): -Add: ScriptGame::Pause, ScriptGame::Unpause, and ScriptGame::GetLandscape (GameScript only)
15:59<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23619 /trunk/src/script/api/ (game/game_date.hpp.sq script_date.cpp script_date.hpp): -Add: ScriptDate::GetSystemTime, to get the seconds since 1 Jan 1970 of the real system (GameScript only)
15:59<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23620 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Add: ScriptTown::SetCargoGoal and ScriptTown::SetGrowthRate (GameScript only)
15:59<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23621 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Add: allow manipulation of signs via GameScripts
15:59<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23622 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Add: a set of events to trigger in a GameScript
16:00<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23623 /trunk/ (27 files in 10 dirs): -Add: allow bi-directional communication with the AdminPort and GameScript
16:00<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23624 /trunk/src/script/api/ (9 files in 2 dirs): -Add: ScriptVehicle/ScriptStation/ScriptSign::GetOwner, to get the owner of those objects (GameScript only)
16:00<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23625 /trunk/ (10 files in 6 dirs): -Add: ScriptViewport::ScrollTo, for SinglePlayer only (GameScript only)
16:00<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23626 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 4 dirs): -Add: ScriptTown::SetText, which adds custom text to the Town GUI
16:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23627 /trunk/ (14 files in 8 dirs): -Add: ScriptNews::Create, to create custom news messages (GameScript only)
16:01<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23628 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: ScriptSubsidy::Create, to create subsidies (GameScript only)
16:02<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23629 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Add: allow ScriptRoad::BuildRoad, ScriptBridge::BuildBridge (for roads) and ScriptTunnel:BuildTunnel (for roads) to work for GameScript
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16:03<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23630 /trunk/ (29 files in 11 dirs): -Add: a Goal GUI to show your current goals
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16:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23631 /trunk/ (20 files in 8 dirs): -Add: ScriptWindow, to manipulate windows on the client (GameScript only)
16:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23632 /trunk/ (46 files in 9 dirs): -Add: GSCompanyMode, to change company in GameScripts
16:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23633 /trunk/src/script/api/ (37 files in 2 dirs): -Add: allow most build commands from GameScript given a CompanyMode is active in that scope
16:05<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23634 /trunk/ (13 files in 6 dirs): -Add: support language files for GameScript (Rubidium)
16:05<Zuu>andythenorth: Welcome to the commit spere :-)
16:06<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23635 /trunk/ (13 files in 8 dirs): -Add: introduce GSText, to allow translating GameScript text, even over network
16:06<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23636 /trunk/src/ (30 files in 6 dirs): -Add: introduce ScriptText in parameters where it can be used
16:06<Wolf01>zuu, combobreaker :P
16:06<andythenorth>nice to be here
16:06<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23637 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Change: bump the savegame, to store all the new goodies
16:07<Wolf01>15MB more for each save
16:07*TrueBrain breaths
16:07<TrueBrain>@calc 23637 - 23597
16:07<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: 40
16:08<Zuu>Did you write all those commit messages by hand or were they simply copied from hg?
16:09<TrueBrain>hg patch <patch>
16:09<TrueBrain>hg push
16:09<TrueBrain>:)
16:10<Zuu>So hg can push to svn. That I didn't know
16:10<TrueBrain>with an extension, it can
16:10<TrueBrain>works rather well, as you can see :P
16:10-!-Karth [~chrisstap@c-24-131-40-183.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
16:12<Karth>Hey, don't suppose I could get some help getting Openttd 1.1.4 going on Debian? it starts fine, but the graphics are rather garbled. It works fine on the same pc in windows.
16:12<frosch123>depends what you consider "garbled"
16:13<frosch123>wrong colours? completely wrong graphics?
16:13<Karth>sprites covering each other up, all purple, and the menus near unnavigatable
16:13<frosch123>start with -b 32bpp-optimized
16:13<Karth>aighty, 1 minute
16:13<TrueBrain>not 32bpp-anim frosch123? :)
16:13<frosch123>if that works, put "blitter = 32bpp-optimized" into ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
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16:14<Karth>ah very nice, that works
16:14<frosch123>Karth: your video driver does not support 8bpp modes then :)
16:15<Karth>my video card is from 1998, so thats kinda wierd
16:15<Karth>ah well
16:15<frosch123>oh, time to run my updateall script
16:16<frosch123>on how many comflicts will it stop?
16:16<TrueBrain>Zuu: in case you missed it, I made WC_ values (WindowClass) + WindowNumber unique, and pointing to a single widget enum
16:16<TrueBrain>so you can now highlight the right road toolbar in the right way etc :)
16:16<TrueBrain>frosch123: after the first 5 commits of mine, it hsould 'just work' :P
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16:18<frosch123>well, recently i mostly encounter that it was a stupid idea of svn to version directories
16:18<Zuu>TrueBrain: There can be more than one road toolbar? As far as I've understood all road/rail etc. toolbars share the same class, but I would not expect them to use different window numbers, just unique widget IDs.
16:18<frosch123>(encountering as in both in ottd and at work)
16:18<TrueBrain>Zuu: that is what I tried to say :)
16:19<TrueBrain>they use the same WC_, but their window number is now unique
16:19<TrueBrain>and documented
16:19<TrueBrain>(not their widget id, their window number btw ;))
16:19<Zuu>Okay, good to hear that the window number is documented. :-)
16:20<Zuu>Now that NoGo is in trunk, does the same doc URL apply or will there be a different one?
16:20<TrueBrain>I guess I have to make nogo.openttd.org ...
16:21<Zuu>Another task after merging with trunk is to point the finger.openttd.org entry to trunk. ... but don't hurry if you feel overwhelmed. :-)
16:21<TrueBrain>not going to happen for another 22 hours :)
16:21<TrueBrain>see forum ;)
16:22<Zuu>Oh yea, sure I just forgot that we have to wait 22 hours for the next nightly to build.
16:23<@Alberth>plenty of time to learn building it from source :p
16:23<Karth>Well thanks for the help getting the game going, now it seems I need to figure out how to fix alsa again :(
16:24<@Alberth>Karth: it is very possible to play without sounds, I managed that for many years :)
16:25<Karth>I know, but whats the fun in that :P besides its system wide
16:25<Zuu>Alberth: Fortutately I already know how to build from source. I just have to pull + update hg, regenerate the project files and compile. Not too hard really :-)
16:28<Rubidium>regenerate project files?
16:29<@Terkhen>urgh, I hated alsa/oss/whatever
16:29<@Terkhen>that was the worst part of setting up a linux partition for me
16:29<Zuu>Because sometimes building doesn't work when they miss a new file.
16:29<@Terkhen>s/worst part/only part that did not go smoothly/
16:30*Zuu realized that he got 32 new strings to translate
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16:40<@Terkhen>you must have forgotten about translating for a long time :)
16:43<Zuu>well, I translated a string yesterday, my language just happen to get cut away from most log messages.
16:43<@Terkhen>:P
16:43<Zuu>Actually, I should usually wait a day or two after most other languages translating in order to get noticed :-)
16:44<Rubidium>Zuu: CIA is just lame
16:44*Terkhen just forgets unless he is highlighted
16:44<@Terkhen>I have the RSS feed but that usually takes days to come for some reason
16:45<Zuu>Hmm, did that email about traslation cause WT3.0 to act wierd? It was slow and now I can't pull up a list of all recent translations to review them for consistency.
16:45<Zuu>Ah good, waiting a while solved it. :-)
16:45<Rubidium>the CF is also running
16:46<Rubidium>so the server might be a bit sluggish
16:46<TrueBrain>the server is not even 25% streshed
16:58<Zuu>Could alse be because there was two of us translating Swedish at the same time.
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17:03<@Terkhen>oooh, OpenTTD displays a message about "your language has a lazy translator"
17:04<Zuu>Yep, I've seen that one lately in the NoGo branch :-)
17:04<@Terkhen>urgh, I'm the translator of that message
17:04<@Terkhen>so I translated it and forgot about the feature
17:05<Zuu>I think it has been there for a year or so.
17:06<Zuu>I think it is a good invention. Whenever a popular language will lose its translators, people are going to notice.
17:06<@Terkhen>yes :)
17:07<Zuu>And when they become translators they will find out whom to blame :-)
17:07<Rubidium>Zuu: you should change the threshold to be 0, then every time a string is missing you see that ;)
17:07<V453000>:D your language has a lazy translator :D
17:09<Zuu>Hmm, now that I looked up the string, I'm slightly dissapointed that it doesn't say "lazy translator" :-)
17:09<@Terkhen>it does not actually say it, but the implications of what it says are quite clear
17:10<frosch123>Terkhen: i actually wonder whether some translator would put some strong words into that message :p
17:10<Zuu>Yep
17:10<@Terkhen>:D
17:11<@Terkhen>I forgot about translating the message so I guess that I dismissed it thinking "I'm so efficient that I'll never see this"
17:12*Zuu suggests that Terkhen gets NoGo 1.5 :-)
17:12<@Terkhen>wishful thinking :P
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17:21<Eddi|zuHause2><frosch123> they must find some day when noone is looking <-- ask the CIA/NSA/MPAA whether they have a "terrorist" attack planned which they can hijack?
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17:23<@Terkhen>there we go, 43 strings pending for spanish
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17:55<@Terkhen>good night
18:03<Karth>Hmm, well got my system's sound working, including timidity. Any idea why OpenTTD's music doesn't work? OS is Debian Squeeze.
18:05<+glx>sound set installed ?
18:05<+glx>well music set :)
18:05<Karth>yep, installed the original GMs
18:06<+glx>selected in options ?
18:06<Karth>yep, when I open the midi player it just shoots through them
18:07<Zuu>Isn't there an issue with the german original CD as well or do I remember wrong?
18:07<+glx>usually means it doesn't find the files
18:07<+glx>where are they ?
18:08<Karth>they are in /usr/share/games/openttd/gm
18:09<@Yexo>did you try downloading and using openmsx?
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18:09<Karth>I have not, let me try that
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18:10<Karth>same problem with them
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18:14<Eddi|zuHause>tried getting some debug output?
18:16<Karth>no I haven't, how do I set it to debug?
18:16<Zuu>Eg, do you have a midi player active in your Linux system?
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18:17<Karth>I've played a midi file using timidity in the terminal
18:17<Karth>so I know it works
18:18<Zuu>IIRC OpenTTD have a command line option to tell which midi driver to use. Maybe that can give you some luck?
18:20<Karth>hmm, let me take a look at something
18:22<Wolf01>'night
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18:27<Karth>ok got debug going, it keeps repeating "ALSA lib pcm.c:7223:(snd_pcm_recover) underrun occoured
18:32<+glx>that's sound related, not music
18:33<Karth>hmm, well sound works fine, it doesn't tell me anything else at debug 1
18:34<+glx>hmm maybe you could try to play a midi file in the terminal while openttd is running
18:34<+glx>(just to check something)
18:36<Karth>sure
18:37<Karth>I can't play my midi file now
18:38<+glx>so it's an alsa problem
18:38<Karth>says cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory
18:38<Karth>hmm, let me look into this
18:39<@peter1138>unable to play midi on linux usually means no suitable synth is installed/setup/etc/
18:39<Karth>I can play midi when openttd is closed
18:39<Karth>it worked when I closed openttd
18:40<@peter1138>probably something is accessing the sound hw device directly, bypassing software mixing
18:41<+glx>or timidity not using alsa
18:41<Karth>how would I know if timidity is using alsa?
18:42<Karth>considering my sound took blacklisting of drivers to get working in alsa
18:43<+glx>timidity -iA -Os should work
18:45<Karth>some info there, but it says ALSA pcm 'default' can't set hw_params and at the bottom says couldn't open ALSA pcm device (`s')
18:45<Karth>lots of information inbetween
18:45<Karth>also, alsa's mixer works fine on it
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