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#openttd IRC Logs for 2011-12-27

---Logopened Tue Dec 27 00:00:01 2011
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03:42<andythenorth>lego fans oftentimes are idiots
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03:58*TWerkhoven[l] still has a big box of it somewhere at his dads place
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04:11<@Terkhen>good morning
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04:52-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
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05:07<Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> articulated cb was an issue with duplicate files in my local repo <-- didn't i say you were modifying the wrong file?
05:07<andythenorth>you get cookies :P
05:08<andythenorth>wood, trees etc
05:08<Ammler>christmas cookies?
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05:29<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: so...what classes should FIRS set for sugar cane? :)
05:29<andythenorth>I have an answer, but I'm testing it....
05:29<@Terkhen>bitmask(CC_SUGAR, CC_CANE)
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06:01<@Alberth>good afternoon :)
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07:18<Eddi|zuHause>dbg: [grf] [newgrf/test/firs.grf:7654] IndustriesChangeInfo: newid 42 <-- that should probably not be in debug level 1
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07:19<TrueBrain>as long as it is not at level 0, *shrug*
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>it's really spammy and really out of place
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07:20<Eddi|zuHause>and each entry is repeated like 20 time
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07:21<TrueBrain>dont enable debug :D
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08:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23676 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4913] (r23412): when removing road stops the wrong tile was checked for updating the infrastructure cache
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08:46<@Terkhen>hi insulfrog
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08:47*insulfrog is thinking what to talk about today :)
08:52<insulfrog>you know the extra zoom points, I think if the openttd was run in a lower resolition at 'full screen mode' with the extra vew points, the graphics will look absolutly massive :p
08:57<TrueBrain>next you will say that playing TT on an old machine looks absolutely massive
08:57<insulfrog>and indeed they do...640x480 at full screen + full extra zoom = OMG :p
08:58<insulfrog>(you can see every single pixel :D
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>if you can't see every single pixel on 1920x1080 and normal zoom, you should probably visit an optrician
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>(pixels on modern screens are only marginally smaller than pixels on 1995 screens)
09:02<insulfrog>(i mean every 'drawn' pixel, not physical pixel)
09:02<insulfrog>feels like a 1990s dos game
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09:10<insulfrog>oops, wrong button
09:12<@Alberth>We don't mind you pressing the 'join' button :p
09:12<insulfrog>no, I closed the irc client by mistake :p
09:13<TrueBrain>he thought the X was for Xtra you know
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09:20<andythenorth>is there any point to a 3t truck in game?
09:20*andythenorth thinks not
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09:24*andythenorth provides a 4t truck
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09:35<insulfrog>im back
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10:13<andythenorth>do I restrict trucks to real world speed limits?
10:13<andythenorth>probably not
10:15<Ammler>that's part of raodtype
10:15<@peter1138>only when the law enforcement module is installed
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10:17<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23677 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#4909]: invalidate AI Parameters window when changing AI
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10:23<andythenorth>what are roadtypes? :o
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10:30<TrueBrain>RT_ROAD, RT_TRAM
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10:34<Eddi|zuHause>anyone has a sane way to test vehicle availability dates?
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>the year cheat is... suboptimal...
10:35<CIA-6>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23678 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Fix: close the editbox of settings when changing an AI, to avoid invalid memory read/write (reported by SmatZ)
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>err... feature request: when using the year cheat, close all prototype offers...
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>i don't understand the year cheat... some vehicles are removed from the purchase list properly, but others are not
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>when using resetengines, they're gone
10:44<TrueBrain>dont cheat :D
10:45<TrueBrain>sorry, I am trolling :(
10:55<Zuu>TrueBrain: In case you have nothing to do: GS-API to slowly scroll the main viewport from current location to some tile. Eg. for moving from town A to town B while still allowing the user to see where they are going.
10:55<Eddi|zuHause>dbg: [grf] Unhandled industry tile variable 0x7C <-- that's probably also wrong for debug level 1
10:56<Eddi|zuHause>debug level 1 should not have repeated output...
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11:03<Rubidium>but the NewGRF shouldn't repeatedly use unknown variables
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11:25<@Alberth>Zuu: perhaps add clicking at airport/station to see cargoes, and/or at aircraft to see its contents?
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11:35<Zuu>Alberth: At the end? Sounds good
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: no idea what variable that's supposed to be
11:46<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: persistent storage
11:48<Rubidium>the place where you probably want the persistent storage of the industry
11:48<Rubidium>but are trying to get it from the industry tile
11:48<Eddi|zuHause>so someone mixed up SELF and PARENT?
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>my FIRS is probably outdated anyway
11:49<+michi_cc>Or maybe it is because says 7C is persistent and 7D temporary while says the reverse.
11:49<@Yexo>Eddi|zuHause: that message was from firs?
11:50<Eddi|zuHause>i'm fairly certain that CETS doesn't use industry tiles :)
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>dbg: [grf] GRFInfo: Loaded GRFv7 set F1250005 - FIRS Industry Replacement Set r2243M (palette: Windows, version: 2243)
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't say in the debug message, but i don't see what other set would cause it
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>maybe debug output needs a "last message repeated 87 times"?
12:03<Rubidium>sounds like something for a log post processor ;)
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12:27<andythenorth>< Eddi|zuHause> err... feature request: when using the year cheat, close all prototype offers...
12:27<andythenorth>^ +1
12:29<Zuu>or, when a company has gone bankrupt, close the offer to buy that company :-)
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13:36*Zuu just figured out a way to close down all companies in OpenTTD.
13:36<Zuu>(posted it to in case anyone is interested in fixing it)
13:36<TrueBrain>reset the game? :P
13:37<Zuu>It is however nothing someone would do by mistake.
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>@fs 4915
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13:38<TrueBrain>lol; SP without company
13:38<TrueBrain>funny :)
13:38<Zuu>I guess a fix would stop point 5 from happening.
13:38<TrueBrain>didnt knwo your company could go bankrupt in SP?
13:38<Zuu>Eg. protect the human company even if the human is in a AI company.
13:39<TrueBrain>but okay .. cheat change company is always been meh :P
13:39<Zuu>It doesn't if you don't use the switch company cheat.
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>i'd rather say stop_ai is the culprit here
13:40<TrueBrain>nah; bankrupt protection should be on the first company
13:40<TrueBrain>not on the local_company
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>it should check whether the company is human controlled first
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>what if you load a multiplayer game?
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>which potentially doesn't have a first company
13:41<Eddi|zuHause>there's no reason to rely on the first company being the human one
13:42*Zuu escapes and goes to the laundary in the basement
13:43<@Yexo><TrueBrain> nah; bankrupt protection should be on the first company <- doesn't work for MP games continued in SP
13:43<@Yexo>oh, eddi said that :p
13:43<TrueBrain>always nice if people read up before starting their comments :D
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23679 /trunk/src/lang/ (swedish.txt unfinished/tamil.txt):
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: swedish - 48 changes by tobjork
13:45<CIA-6>OpenTTD: tamil - 26 changes by aswn
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13:55<TrueBrain>what kind of language is Tamil?
13:55<TrueBrain>Singapore and co
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14:13<MNIM>tamil is a language spoken by the tamil people in a part of indonesia. it's a people fighting for independence from indonesia since the country exists.
14:15<MNIM>(an issue mostly caused, sadly, by the retreat of dutch colonialism after world war two)
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14:39<Zuu>TrueBrain: Just for sake of correctness, the original NoGO script that you wrote for town growh requirements, is it ok to license that as GPL2?
14:40<Zuu>I plan to upload my modifications to that script.
14:40<Zuu>So that we hove something that give town growth goals.
14:40<TrueBrain>my 'original' script has changed 10 times :P
14:41<TrueBrain>but hereby you get the full license rights to that file; license it how ever you feel fit :)
14:41<Zuu>Well, anyway, its your code in all 10 versions :-)
14:41<TrueBrain>and "you" here is Zuu, not anyone else :P
14:41<Zuu>Thanks :-)
14:42<TrueBrain>make something pretty out of it :D
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15:28<Eddi|zuHause>hm... the grf-section needn't be the first in an nml file, right?
15:30<@Yexo>but it must be one of the first
15:30<@Yexo>there are a lot of blocks invalid before the grf-block
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>i was thinking of putting some named parameter assignments before
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15:30<@Yexo>that's fine
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>(not because it's necessary, but it's convenient)
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15:45<muhvic>Hey, can somebody help me? I have a problem when I try to update openttd to 1.1.4
15:45<@Yexo>we can't help unless you tell us which problem you have
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15:47<muhvic>I'm using ubuntu 11.10 and I have installed 1.0.4 via ubuntu software center, and when I try to update it to 1.1.4 it says;package operation failed; the installation or removal of a software package failed. and in details it says this;dpkg: considering removing openttd-data in favour of openttd ...
15:47<muhvic>dpkg: no, cannot proceed with removal of openttd-data (--auto-deconfigure will help):
15:47<muhvic> openttd depends on openttd-data (= 1.0.4-3)
15:47<muhvic> openttd-data is to be removed.
15:47<muhvic>dpkg: regarding .../openttd-1.1.4-linux-ubuntu-oneiric-i386.deb containing openttd:
15:47<muhvic> openttd conflicts with openttd-data
15:47<muhvic> openttd-data (version 1.0.4-3) is present and installed.
15:48<muhvic>dpkg: error processing /home/muhvic/Downloads/openttd-1.1.4-linux-ubuntu-oneiric-i386.deb (--install):
15:48<muhvic> conflicting packages - not installing openttd
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>then remove openttd and openttd-data first, then install openttd again
15:48<muhvic>I did try that before
15:48<muhvic>and when I installd it
15:49<muhvic>the game wouldn't load
15:49<@Alberth>what did it say?
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>then search for something like openttd-opengfx
15:51<muhvic>it doesn't say anything
15:51<@blathijs>muhvic: Try running "openttd" from a terminal, that might show an error
15:51<Rubidium>then Ubuntu has been messing up things once again
15:51<@blathijs>muhvic: Or try installing openttd 1.1.4 from Debian testing
15:52<@blathijs>muhvic: I suspect this is the upstream deb, not the Ubuntu one?
15:52<@blathijs>Uh, the latter one was for Rubidium
15:53<Rubidium>blathijs: what I've said is under the premise that openttd-opengfx doesn't exist in Ubuntu
15:53<Rubidium>after all, he said that it couldn't be found
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>he didn't actually say that... he replied to the previous question by Alberth
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>(at least it reads here like that)
15:57<Eddi|zuHause>er... someone mixed up the date for silvester, i think
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16:00<@Alberth>§ion=all plenty of openttd stuff at ubuntu, it seems
16:03<muhvic>okay, so 1.1.4 works now, graphics set was the problem
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16:38<vargadanis>hey there
16:39<vargadanis>I need a station layout with at least 6 tracks... the current one's throughput isn't big enough :S
16:39<vargadanis>could someone help me?
16:40<@Yexo>have you seen the openttdcoop wiki?
16:41<@Yexo> :)
16:42<vargadanis>sweet stuffs
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18:58<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: fancy drawing something for a change? we need a 4-axle express passenger wagon. maybe something like this: (those are the later DRG colours, not sure where to find older ones)
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>length is 10lu
18:59<Elukka>i'll look into it, thanks for the sources
18:59<Elukka>been working on model trains lately :P
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19:01<Elukka>might be best to go with the usual bavarian colors unless there's reason to believe they're different
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>ideally we have one for each of the (major) railways :)
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19:02<__ln__> (warning: music)
19:03<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. prussian, saxon and bavarian
19:03<Elukka>browsing the brawa site for reference could get expensive for me...
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19:04<Eddi|zuHause>pff :p
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: here's a few colours for prussian wagons:
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19:20<Elukka>that's useful, thanks
19:21<Elukka>huh. and a real reference photo of a prussian 2 axle coach
19:21<Elukka>haven't seen one before
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19:25<Eddi|zuHause> <-- here's a few cargo wagons
19:27<@Terkhen>good night
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19:34<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: and something i noticed, the 10lu passenger wagon looks more spaced out in -> direction than in <- direction, can you check whether the graphics are wrong length, the template is wrong length, or openttd's drawing is wrong?
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19:41<Elukka>ottd is drawing it wrong
19:41<Elukka>i've noticed it too, it only appears in recent builds of cets
19:42<Elukka>i tested r449 vs r272
19:42<Elukka>r272 draws them correctly
19:42<Elukka>i'm not sure on which build the bug appears
19:42<Eddi|zuHause>then it might be my slicing code, actually
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>ok. i'll debug that later...
19:43<Eddi|zuHause>now i know at least where to look :)
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: and the other thing i noticed, in \ and / view, the alignment of the wagons seems to mismatch the alignment of the engines (compared to the rails)
19:49<Elukka>hmm, yes
19:49<Elukka>there's a slight error with the coaches but the goods cars seem to be correct
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>(or is that my alignment code again?)
19:50<Eddi|zuHause>i guess i need to review all offsets once more
19:51<Elukka>i might not have paid enough attention to it, i just went by oberhümer's fix of my initial sprites
19:51<Eddi|zuHause>grml... my parameter code doesn't work... need to move it after the grf block because the gui-parameter is not declared yet
19:55<Elukka>what do you think, is bavarian green or passenger green from the color templates more appropriate for the early d-zug coaches?
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19:57<Phrewfuf>i need some help setting up a openttd dedicated server
19:57<Phrewfuf>i have a debian server and some windows clients
19:58<Phrewfuf>when i start the server on the debian machine and try to connect from the clients, i get a version mismatch error. how can i fix this`?
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: i think the "passenger green" is later
19:58<Eddi|zuHause>not sure though
20:00<Phrewfuf>btw the server instance was installed vie apt-get
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20:02<Elukka>hmm. any idea whether the roofs would be a flat or metallic grey?
20:02<Elukka>the models are metallic but they're also later DRG
20:04<Elukka>hmm... or brown
20:04<Elukka>some other bavarian coaches have brown roofs
20:04<Elukka>they look distinctly older though
20:06<Elukka>okay, going by models metallic seems the most likely
20:09<fjb|tab>Phrewfuf: Use the same version for the server and all clients.
20:11<Phrewfuf>fjb|tab: why does apt-get install an old version?
20:11<fjb|tab>Ask the maintainer of your distribution.
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20:15<Phrewfuf>ok now i thnk openttd is screwing with me
20:16<Phrewfuf>i'm trying to run it in dedicated mode and its failing to find a graphics set
20:17<@Yexo>the base graphics set contains more than just graphics
20:17<@Yexo>so you still need either the grfs from the original cdrom or opengfx
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20:20<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: in the prussian railways, the switch to silver roof colour was around 1900, so the express cars would definitely be afterwards
20:21<Elukka>did the prussians use silver? all i've seen is flat grey
20:21<Elukka>the bavarians seem to have, though
20:22<Elukka>hmm. need to make the roof slightly blue to make it look metallic
20:22<Eddi|zuHause>"silver" means "grey-white", not necessarily actual silver
20:28<Phrewfuf>Yexo: i placed opengfx into ~/.openttd/baseset and it still cant find it
20:29<Phrewfuf>of course the ~ of the user that will run the server
20:29<@Yexo>Phrewfuf: where did you download opengfx? What kind of file is it?
20:29<@Yexo>and which version of openttd are you running?
20:29<Phrewfuf>it was a zip file...i unpacked it
20:29<@Yexo>that's good :)
20:30<@Yexo>and it was the zip file with the final grfs, not a source package?
20:30<Phrewfuf>binary files, yes
20:30<Phrewfuf>got them from
20:31<Phrewfuf>aswell as the other two...sfx and mxs
20:31<@Yexo>ok, and the version of openttd?
20:31<Phrewfuf>if the .deb-file got installed correctly, its the last stable..1.1.4
20:32<@Yexo>you need to put opengfx in ~/.openttd/data/ for openttd 1.1, ~/.openttd/baseset is only supported by 1.2+
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20:35<Phrewfuf>ok now the server is running, but i cant connect to it
20:36<Phrewfuf>though it is logging queries from the client
20:37<Phrewfuf>oh wait...found the problem...
20:37<Phrewfuf>config is wrong
20:37<Elukka>Eddi|zuHause: initial late night sketch
20:37<Phrewfuf>thanks for the help
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>i think the doors need to be more prominent
20:38<Eddi|zuHause>e.g. darker
20:39<Elukka>i'll look into it tomorrow
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20:54<Eddi|zuHause>prussian express wagons:
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>ca. 1907 prussia switched from green/green/brown/gray to unified green for the classes
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21:27<Elukka>those look just like the coach i'm drawing except the roof has that ridge
21:27<Elukka>the clerestory windows
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---Logclosed Wed Dec 28 00:00:20 2011