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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-01-04

---Logopened Wed Jan 04 00:00:47 2012
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04:26<bigboy>hi
04:27<bigboy>no one here?
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04:33<MNIM>http://fatpita.net/images/image%20%2813531%29.jpg?1046
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04:56<Rubidium>such a big boy that he can't even wait more than a minute for a reply...
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05:01<@peter1138>MNIM, zomg 90° turns
05:02<@planetmaker>hello
05:04<appe_>MNIM: that is omgwtfpancake.
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08:35<Wolf01>hi o/
08:41<__ln__>\o
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08:48<Hirundo>NewGRF specs state "Actions 6, 7, 9, B, C, D (except resource management sprites), 10 and 14 are valid before an action 8.
08:48<Hirundo>Is that enforced in any way?
08:57<frosch123>disabling grfs in the activation stage is one of the higher mysticisms of newgrfs :)
08:57<@planetmaker>:-D
08:58<frosch123>i would assume action1 and 2 do not matter for ottd either
08:58<frosch123>but with action 0 and 3 being executed in activation stage when the grf is disabled later, might cause problems
09:00<Remi_Woler>hmm, the latest nightly is a palindrome version :o
09:00<Eddi|zuHause>why don't we have a party then?!?
09:01<frosch123>we did not party on the recent fibonacci nightly either
09:01<Hirundo>frosch123: I'm currently looking at unifying the filescan and safetyscan, so all newgrfs are scanned for safety at startup
09:01<Remi_Woler>dev team doesn't know what fun is :/
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>we did not party on a lot of recent revisions...
09:02<Hirundo>All unsafe actions are basically invalid before action 8, which would make that slightly easier / faster
09:02<Hirundo>(With one exception: writing >0x80 params in ActionD)
09:03<frosch123>Remi_Woler: fun is, if you add 975 to the revision number :p
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>Hirundo: i'd read that as a clarification of "except ressource management"
09:04<frosch123>yes, i would also consider writing >=0x80 variables as invalid
09:04<frosch123>basically it is about: a newgrf is active if its action8 has been processed in activation stage
09:05<frosch123>so all disabling must happen before, and everything that defines some entity must happen after
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09:05<Remi_Woler>frosch123: not seeing the fun… 24707
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd log 1
09:06<frosch123>exactly, why would you want to party r24707? there is nothing special about that number
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>@openttd commit 1
09:06<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
09:06<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
09:06<Remi_Woler>ah! So that's why there's no party
09:06<frosch123>well, maybe you have to add 974 though
09:07<Remi_Woler>so the actual palindrome was 974 revs ago. Complicated :S
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>worse. we're already 17 revisions beyond the nightly revision
09:10<Remi_Woler>then stop committing! How are we supposed to have a party when y'all keep upping the rev counter?!
09:11<frosch123>by committing the party-triggering revision during the party
09:14<frosch123>Hirundo: technically you can of course put the forbidden actions at the start of the file, skip them using action 9 and later jump back to execute them after action 8 :p
09:15<Hirundo>sounds almost as bad as changing action bytes with action 6...
09:16<frosch123>good point :p
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09:32<Hirundo>Does the GUI filter framework allow multiple filters?
09:37<frosch123>multiple filters, but only one at a time
09:43<@planetmaker>15:15 Hirundo: sounds almost as bad as changing action bytes with action 6... <-- omg... !
09:43*Hirundo needs more than one at a time (static/non-static, and tag/name)
09:43<Hirundo>planetmaker: AFAIK the spec doesn't forbid it :-)
09:44<@planetmaker>yes, I don't know it either. It's just I didn't think of that madness before
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09:50<@planetmaker>Remi_Woler: we've proven that we can party AND commit ;-)
09:52<@planetmaker>(or at least rb did)
09:55<+michi_cc>Hirundo: Make the tag/name filter also compare static/non-static with some appropriately set variable.
09:55<Remi_Woler>planetmaker: pics or it didn't happen? :P
09:59<frosch123>Remi_Woler: no pictures, only news: https://secure.openttd.org/www/en/news/128
09:59<frosch123>r20000 (new counting) was commited from inside a tent
10:03<@blathijs>That's where the greatest stuff gets conceived (Games, babies, etc.)
10:07<Remi_Woler>frosch123: so planetmaker made a cake 74 revs too late?!
10:09<frosch123>it was a "20k" cake, so the last 3 digits were dropped :p
10:09<Remi_Woler>and this is how rounding bugs happen :o
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>there were r20k pictures somewhere
10:11<__ln__>nonsense, a cake is always precisely on time, the rest of reality can be either late or early.
10:11<frosch123>only non-public ones :)
10:11<@planetmaker>well... there still are. But I didn't ask everyone whether I may publish them ;-)
10:11<@planetmaker>and I'm totally with __ln__ there ;-)
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11:21<andythenorth>hola
11:22<__ln__>hola andyelnorte
11:29*andythenorth spots a Godwin event
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11:30<andythenorth>new cargo for FIRS: 'subjugated races'
11:30<andythenorth>?
11:30<decoded>did some openttd AI achive consciousness and now threatens man kind with efficient cargo hauling?
11:38<@planetmaker>andythenorth: I'd rather suggest the anti-thesis: "happy people", like Alphas ... Epsilons
11:38<andythenorth>ho
11:38<andythenorth>anyway, the community has policed that idea away :P
11:39<andythenorth>how interesting
11:39<Aali>I'm looking forward to setting up my soylent green shipping empire
11:39<andythenorth>I didn't find the 'segregated buses' suggestion that offensive
11:39<andythenorth>strange
11:39<andythenorth>but not offensive
11:42<@planetmaker>well. it's racist and certainly won't add to the game
11:42<@planetmaker>at least not more than tourists and normal passengers
11:42<@planetmaker>or if you want tourists and commuters
11:43<Aali>all the passengers in ottd are white anyway
11:43<andythenorth>definitely racist :P
11:45<andythenorth>hmm
11:45<andythenorth>http://flipthemedia.com/index.php/2011/07/is-the-facebook-phenomenon-planking-actually-racist/
11:45<@peter1138>what about newstats' passengers?
11:46<decoded>lmao
11:46<andythenorth>this is what I was actually looking for: http://longstreet.typepad.com/thesciencebookstore/2008/05/human-powerraw.html
11:50<andythenorth>hmm
11:50*andythenorth needs custom fields for industry
11:58<Rubidium>so many reactions to a troll :(
11:59<andythenorth>it was a well-executed troll
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12:08<frosch123>let's make him a developer
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12:17<andythenorth>compared to the typical suggestion...it was better explained, more interesting, and had more chance of being viable
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12:23<Eddi|zuHause>i tried to answer, but there was no way it wouldn't be offensive and insensitive
12:25<@peter1138>heh
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12:41<@Terkhen>hello
12:41<andythenorth>hola
12:41*Terkhen hates traffic
12:41<@Terkhen>let's remove all road vehicles from OpenTTD
12:42<andythenorth>can you do that before I go any further on BANDIT?
12:42<frosch123>there is already no civil traffic :)
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12:46<@Terkhen>andythenorth: no, I want just a bunch of completely empty roads
12:46<andythenorth>Terkhen: newgrf to disable vehicles?
12:47<@Terkhen>hardcode "max road vehicle amount" to 0
12:47<BUTTMUNCH>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCe_yfhD91k legen...dary
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13:07*Hirundo ponders NewGRFs that change grifd via a loading-stage-dependant action 6
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13:08<@Yexo>Hirundo: not possible
13:09<@Yexo>during first scan (where grfid is read) action6 is not executed
13:09<@Yexo>after that in the loading stage the action6 is executed, but if at that point the grfid doesn't match the grfid from the scan stage the grf is disabled
13:11<@planetmaker>now, that surely would lead to evilgasms
13:11<@planetmaker>if it were possible
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13:16<LordAro>interesting, my AI repo has broken mercurial :)
13:19<Hirundo>Yexo: In GRFInfo the grfid is updated and a debug message is issued, but no disabling takes place
13:19<Hirundo>newgrf.cpp line 6000
13:19<Hirundo>Whether that is the Right Thing (tm) I'm not sure
13:20<@Yexo>ah, you're right :)
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13:22<@planetmaker>LordAro: how do you mean "has broken hg"?
13:22<LordAro>planetmaker: http://mercurial.selenic.com/bts/issue3179
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13:26<TrueBrain>concratz LordAro :D
13:26<LordAro>thank you :)
13:26<LordAro>i must say, i'm surprised it exists in both 1.9.1 and 2.0.2
13:27<LordAro>i mean, i would've thought it would've been fixed :)
13:28<@Terkhen>wow, you managed to crash hg with just "diff"
13:28<@Terkhen>congratulations :P
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13:34<BUTTMUNCH>why is it that me and my friend timeout all the time
13:34<BUTTMUNCH>when i create a server he times out, when he creates a server I timeout
13:34<TrueBrain>start with a smaller game?
13:35<BUTTMUNCH>hmm i guess i could try that
13:35<@Terkhen>either one of the computers is too slow for the game you are trying to run or you have network issues
13:36<BUTTMUNCH>if that would be the case, that’d be really buttsy
13:36<Elukka>i've usually played 1024x, sometimes even 2048x with a few people and it's worked fine
13:36<BUTTMUNCH>it aint slow computers, it could be networking issues
13:37<frosch123>wireless is said to cause trouble with ottd
13:37<BUTTMUNCH>both wired connections
13:37<BUTTMUNCH>but i n ever timeout on irc or anywhere else
13:38<BUTTMUNCH>it looks like most disconnects happen during server saving the map
13:39<@peter1138>large maps cause stalls when autosaving on servers
13:40<BUTTMUNCH>isn’t there a way to set autosaving to let’s say every (real life) hour
13:40<BUTTMUNCH>and not game months
13:41<@Terkhen>no
13:41<@Terkhen>you can disable it
13:41<Chris_Booth>BUTTMUNCH: you can work out how long a game day week or month is though
13:41<Chris_Booth>1 day is 2 ticks
13:41<Chris_Booth>so one month is ~60 ticks
13:41<BUTTMUNCH>so you can put in an amount of ticks for saving?
13:42<Chris_Booth>no
13:42<BUTTMUNCH>then i’m not folliwing you
13:42<Chris_Booth>but you can work out how many ticks an hour is
13:42<Chris_Booth>and work out which game auto save option is closest to that
13:43<BUTTMUNCH>yearly is the longesdt
13:43<BUTTMUNCH>and that’s too short
13:43<Chris_Booth>or you can dissable it
13:43<Elukka>large maps cause stalls yes but it's not supposed to drop players
13:43<Chris_Booth>or write a patch that allows you to enter in ticks the amount of time you wish
13:43<Elukka>it never has for me
13:44<BUTTMUNCH>hmm
13:44<BUTTMUNCH>i see the message too, where i haven’t hada response (or whatever) for 5 seconds
13:45<BUTTMUNCH>but whoever connects from the outside, gets that message for more than 10 seconds
13:45<Elukka>you might try a vpn (tunngle is nice and works, hamachi is a piece of crap, dunno about others) and a LAN game through it
13:46<BUTTMUNCH>hmm right, ok
13:46<Chris_Booth>Elukka: a standard internet connection limit the speed of a VPN
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: translators * r23750 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: belarusian - 19 changes by Wowanxm
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: croatian - 19 changes by VoyagerOne
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: english_AU - 20 changes by tomas4g
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: italian - 20 changes by lorenzodv
13:46<CIA-6>OpenTTD: lithuanian - 161 changes by BlinK_
13:46<BUTTMUNCH>it’s not the speed really
13:46<Chris_Booth>only way you can get better openttd is buy a beasty CPU
13:46<Elukka>yes but it's not necessarily raw speed that's the issue
13:46<BUTTMUNCH>the connection between me and him are 25mbit
13:46<BUTTMUNCH>since my upload is 25mbit
13:46<BUTTMUNCH>and my download is 120mbit
13:46<Elukka>it's unlikely his games are dropping players because their computers or connections are too slow
13:46<Elukka>it's probably just some hickup
13:47<Elukka>way you work tunngle is you join some room (doesn't matter which one), then make a LAN game and the other players should see it
13:47<Elukka>assuming they're in the same room
13:47<Elukka>works fine for playing with friends but has obvious issues for public servers
13:48<Elukka>in my experience, it usually bypasses annoying indeterminate connection issues
13:48<BUTTMUNCH>thanks for the tip, i will try that right away
13:49<BUTTMUNCH>and yes, this is just a 2 player game we’re running here
13:49<BUTTMUNCH>as for beasty cpu
13:49-!-Solshine [~c24bee04@101.haydn.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
13:49<BUTTMUNCH>i actually put my cpu to stock because i wondered maybe my overclock was the case, buti t wasn’t
13:49<BUTTMUNCH>i’m running a Q9550 @ 4.4ghz
13:50<Solshine>Hi. I'm trying to get all the required parts for me to be able to run AdmiralAI on openttd (ubuntu). I can't get internet on the target machine so I have to gather all the files on this machine.
13:50<Solshine>Where could I find the required libraries?
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13:51<Eddi|zuHause>evil thought: grf action "hide this grf from <other grf>"
13:51<Solshine>Nevermind, found the bananas.
13:51<@planetmaker>no. That'd only complicate matters.
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>well, it would solve an issue with my hacked alpine
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>it must be detected by dbsetxl, but may not be detected by firs
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>currently i must additionally hack firs to not check for alpine
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13:54<Solshine>I think I'm set. Thank you.
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14:11<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: hack your alpine climate enough so it becomes static
14:11<@planetmaker>or... use ogfx+landscape
14:12<@planetmaker>or just any other similar newgrf
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14:12<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: can't be static, because then dbset can't detect it
14:12<@planetmaker>or hack your firs
14:12<@planetmaker>that is even allowed
14:12<@planetmaker>as you don't play MP that's of no issue to you either
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>dbset will only activate in arctic climate if it detects the grf-id of alpine
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14:13<@planetmaker>simplest solution would be to rather hack dbset, eh?
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14:14<@planetmaker>as it's there where the insufficiency is present
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>the idea is to "hack" as few grfs as possible
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14:17<@planetmaker>that's one: dbset
14:17<@planetmaker>and that's hacking at the root of the problem, too
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>no, alpine is the root of the problem
14:18<@planetmaker>and solves more issues, like when you want tropical climate or arctic w/o alpine.
14:18<@planetmaker>no, the grfcheck for alpine's presence obviously ;-)
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>that is no problem. that is a deliberate choice of the author
14:19<@peter1138>pom te pom
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>there is no reason to change that
14:20<@planetmaker>then there's no reason to change anything
14:20<@planetmaker>least in the other newgrfs
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>the "problem" is that firs cannot distinguish between the original incompatible alpine and my hacked compatible alpine
14:20<@planetmaker>as that's also the choice of their authors
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>since i "fixed" alpine, i could tell it to tell firs that it's now compatible
14:21<@planetmaker>see: you need to change dbset to search for another alpine climate ID
14:21<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: or just remove the alpine check in FIRS :P
14:21<@planetmaker>nope it can't - unless you give alpine a action14 version. Which is stupid to check for unless that's official
14:22<@planetmaker>and the statement of "least hacks" clearly wants the check removed at the root: dbset
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14:32<andythenorth>so how do I determine whether my blitter is 8bpp or 32bpp?
14:32<@planetmaker>look at your cfg
14:32*andythenorth does
14:32<@planetmaker>blitter = ...
14:32<@planetmaker>on osx it's most likely 32bpp-anim
14:33<@planetmaker>unless you changed it
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14:34<andythenorth>I have blitter = ""
14:34<andythenorth>and I'm using trunk ~tip
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: well, i don't share your view there... but i'm not feeling like repeating the argument again
14:35<andythenorth>should I explicitly force my blitter to 32bpp-anim ?
14:35<@planetmaker>andythenorth: then you use 32bpp-anim (osx) or 8bpp-optimized (otherwise)
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: usually there is no reason to change the default, unless you have an actual problem
14:36<andythenorth>ok, that means I have 32bpp-anim
14:36<andythenorth>that means it's useful for me to watch out for 32bpp bugs?
14:37<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: no need to repeat; the argument imho is flawed.
14:37<@planetmaker>aka solving symptoms than causes
14:37<andythenorth>*why* does DBSet need a specific, hacky, climate + industries + houses grf?
14:38<@peter1138>gah
14:38<andythenorth>and why isn't DBSet it GPL?
14:38<andythenorth>-it
14:38<@peter1138>need to replace a dead disk
14:38<andythenorth>waste of time replacing a live one ;)
14:38<@peter1138>but i rebooted the machine and it says both work :S
14:38<@peter1138>can't remember which one was showing as dead
14:39-!-|Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5152B25B.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
14:39<andythenorth>TrueBrain: is there a FS for the "crashed vehicles aren't monotone" bug?
14:39*andythenorth can't see one
14:40<@planetmaker>not afaik
14:40<TrueBrain>andythenorth: the people who can fix it, know :P
14:40<TrueBrain>and even have a patch
14:40<TrueBrain>they are just too scared to commit :D
14:40<andythenorth>I can't replicate the issue anyway
14:40*peter1138 tries writing lots of data to trigger it
14:41<@peter1138>i'm not scared
14:41<@peter1138>i'm just busy
14:41<TrueBrain><3
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>dbset is some CC-BY-ND-simile
14:41<andythenorth>should be banned
14:41<andythenorth>http://www.dwheeler.com/essays/gpl-compatible.html
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>but it's actually older than CC, so it's some custom license
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>why should the license be changed?
14:43<@peter1138>gah, writing 1GB file didn't blow it up :S
14:43*TrueBrain gives peter1138 C4 :D
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: smartctl -a?
14:43<@peter1138>not installed :S
14:43<@peter1138>but it's on a cpq array
14:43<@peter1138>so smartctl probably isn't useful
14:43<andythenorth>everything-GPL = easier
14:44<@peter1138>which is probably why it's not installed
14:44<LordAro>a result: http://mercurial.selenic.com/bts/issue3179 :)
14:44<@peter1138>indeed, it doesn't
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i don't think forcing a control freak like MB to use gpl is the right thing
14:45<@peter1138>i kinda hate hardware raid :S
14:45<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause: but working around other people's control issues isn't either
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14:46<TrueBrain>peter1138: just pull a random one out, and see if the machine still runs!
14:48<@peter1138>:S
14:49<@peter1138>it will, they both work
14:49<@peter1138>but presumably one will hit a write error at some point
14:50<TrueBrain>:(
14:50<@peter1138>hence why i'm trying to fill the disk
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14:59<Remi_Woler>TrueBrain: btw: the 5=6 patch worked perfectly :)
15:00<TrueBrain>small bugs, huge crashes :)
15:00<TrueBrain>I just realised I never really tried the patch; just assumed it would fix it
15:00<Remi_Woler>exactly :)
15:00<TrueBrain>that is not good ..
15:01<TrueBrain>owh well, happy to know I did get it right :P
15:01<Remi_Woler>I tested it, worked fine. Already played 6 games with the current nightly
15:01<TrueBrain>you have a lot of time on your hands :P
15:01-!-LordAro_ [~lordaro@host86-137-190-54.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
15:01<@peter1138>or play badly :p
15:02<TrueBrain>^^ :D
15:02<Remi_Woler>not the full 100 years. Usually start in 2034, enough to have the AI go crazy so I can see the effects with a gamescript
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15:09<LordAro>hmmm... why have upgrade/close airport patches never been included in trunk?
15:18<@peter1138>bloody thing still didn't error :(
15:18<LordAro>is that a bad thing?
15:19<@peter1138>yes
15:19*Remi_Woler hands peter1138 a screwdriver. That should fix things
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15:20<andythenorth>peter1138: it's ok, all your data is gone on 21/12/12 apparently
15:20<andythenorth>according to idiots anyway
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15:27<Zuu>LordAro: I guess someone would need to put in time and effort to review those patches.
15:28<LordAro>well, obviously, but why haven't they done so? :D
15:28<Zuu>Now that we got GS, one could implement at least CloseAirport as a GS that you enable by eg. renaming your airport station.
15:28*peter1138 tries reading the whole disk
15:28<@peter1138>*volume
15:28*andythenorth is having not-coding fail :|
15:28<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: have you tried reading the threads discussing them?
15:29<Zuu>LordAro: Well, the thing is that anyone, also non-devs could put time into reviewing the patch.
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: in all likelyhood, the reasons will be in there
15:30<Remi_Woler>I'll be happy to review them. But I'll reject them if they don't have enough pretty colors
15:31<Zuu>I think one issue that has been mentioned is that the patch improves aircraft as transport mode. And we get all sorts of suggestions on how to make aircraft harder.
15:32<LordAro>i guess so
15:33<FLHerne>(newish IRC user) How do you enter messages in the format " * | [username]...."?
15:33<Zuu>Though, if closing of airports is implemented already, doing it for the other transport modes I guess is not harder than airports.
15:33<Remi_Woler>FLHerne: /me your message here
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>aircraft are horribly inefficient...
15:33*LordAro think you start with '/me'
15:33<Remi_Woler>FLHerne: the / has to be the first thing on the line
15:33*FLHerne thanks Remi_Woler
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15:34<encoded>i wish openttd responded to alt+f4
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>encoded: hotkeys.conf
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>.cfg
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>or something
15:34<Zuu>hotkeys.cfg
15:35<LordAro>openttd responds to alt+f4 to me
15:35<Zuu>But I would think that alt+f4 would be detected by windows that send a close event to OpenTTD.
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>i do think it did respond to that on linux as well
15:36<Rubidium>Zuu: that russian transportgoals translation seems to be utf8
15:36<Zuu>Ok
15:36<Zuu>Then the issue is on my side
15:37<Zuu>I'll see what OpenTTD have to say about the file then. :-)
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15:48<frosch123>Zuu: the russian transport goals translation is valid utf8
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16:05<LordAro>I would like to congratulate Truebrain wrt NoGo. Very nice :)
16:06<LordAro>also Zuu: re CityDomination: apparently i have to get a town's population from 170 -> 5000? :P
16:07<Tom__>On the wiki for installing on a mac it says, "download the osx OpenTTD installer from the website" but I can't find any installer, sorry to be a bother
16:07<LordAro>Zuu: edit: oh, _all_ towns to 5000, that was easy :)
16:10<Rubidium>Tom__: I guess someone copied the Windows manual or so; there isn't an Mac OSX instaler (nor has there ever been one)
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16:11<Zuu>I haven't actually played with CityDomination lately. Only tested it at version 2 or so.
16:11<Tom__>Rubidium: Cheers, I am a total noob and cant seem to add the OpenGFX textures
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16:12<LordAro>Zuu: well, it seems to be working good :D
16:12<Rubidium>Tom__: too bad the OSX version doesn't have support for downloading that upon the first start then (Linux and Windows do have support for that in 1.2.0) :(
16:13<Tom__>Rubidium: dang :(
16:14<FLHerne>It seems that OTTD is more responsive over a high-latency, 2Mb/s connection than on my computer...
16:15<FLHerne>When SSHing into a reasonably quick one I mean
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16:21<LordAro>i must say, it would be clearer if the new tab 'general information' actually told us that they were for goals
16:21<LordAro>i had to guess :L
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16:22<andythenorth>Tom__: just download the zip and install it
16:22<andythenorth>or you have openttd already?
16:23*andythenorth thinks mac users are parasites :P
16:23<FLHerne>Why?
16:24<Rubidium>because they keep bugging the bug tracker without ever getting rid of them ;)
16:25<andythenorth>because they won't contribute to maintaining the app, but are happy to use it
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16:26<andythenorth>parasites
16:28<Rubidium>also macs are for artisty people, right? So why are there so few "contributions" of useably 32bpp OpenTTD graphics from them? ;)
16:30<andythenorth>roll out the stereotypes why not :P
16:30<FLHerne>They are? I'm not very arty, and I've got 7, including the one I'm using :P
16:30<andythenorth>*no* serious CGI artist uses a mac
16:30<andythenorth>macs are crap for CGI
16:30<Rubidium>but... only on Macs the colours are right!
16:30<andythenorth>?
16:31<FLHerne>If 'right' is 'different from anyone else', maybe...
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16:32<Rubidium>andythenorth: that was the reason why so many used photoshop on the mac, wasn't it?
16:33<andythenorth>once upon a time yes
16:33<FLHerne>That seems to be Apple's attitude on connectors, processors, expansion slots, partition types...
16:33<andythenorth>Rubidium: I think that's somewhat historical :P
16:33<Rubidium>yeah, but I like raisins
16:33<FLHerne>Er...what?
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16:35<FLHerne>I hate single-button ADB mice, but I do like raisins! Did I miss an injoke or something?
16:36<andythenorth>Rubidium: have you ever considered dropping mac support?
16:36<Rubidium>andythenorth: yes
16:37<Rubidium>I've actually done it
16:37<Rubidium>remember 1.0?
16:37<andythenorth>no :)
16:37<LordAro_>andy deleted it from his memories ;)
16:43<@peter1138>we did. for ages :p
16:43<@peter1138>i don't think i was around when it was reinstated
16:45<Elukka>http://www.richardkrol.nl/fotos/v200/rollout/221136neustrelitzb.jpg
16:45<Rubidium>oh, 01-04-2012...
16:45<Rubidium>I guess we could pull it ;)
16:45<Elukka>holy crap some private operator that still has V200's hasn't painted it in an awful color scheme
16:46<appe_>:o
16:49<FLHerne>Reminds me of DP1 for some reason
16:49<FLHerne>But warship-shaped
16:49<Elukka>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/V_200_Technikmuseum_Berlin.jpg
16:49<Elukka>they're some of my favorite locomotives
16:49<Elukka>the warship was based on them
16:50<FLHerne>That pic's about 4x the size of my screen
16:50<FLHerne>And my browser can't zoom webpages :-(
16:51-!-Progman [~progman@p57A19ACB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:51<LordAro_>get a better browser then ;)
16:52-!-LordAro_ is now known as LordAro
16:52<FLHerne>Yes, but I can't find one with better functionality that runs reasonably
16:52<Elukka>what are you using?
16:52<FLHerne>Dillo 3
16:52<FLHerne>Firefox is better, but takes 10 minutes to start
16:53<LordAro>its got much better recently
16:53<LordAro>(i use chrome by preference)
16:54<FLHerne>Yes, but FF > 3 and Chrome don't support PowerPC
16:54<LordAro>ah
16:54<LordAro>get a better computer then ;)
16:54<@planetmaker>no newer FF for osx 10.5?
16:54<FLHerne>But I like my little 1400 :P
16:55<FLHerne>10.5 would be rather slow I think
16:56<FLHerne>This thing came with 8.6
16:56<FLHerne>Now Debian
16:57<Rubidium>firefox seems to build fine on Debian for PowerPC
16:58<FLHerne>Still probably too slow...I know recent versions are getting better, but FF 1 uses 120% of physical RAM
16:58<andythenorth>lynx?
16:58<FLHerne>Doesn't zoom pages either
16:58<andythenorth>vnc to another box :P
16:59<FLHerne>Or show images for that matter
16:59<FLHerne>Dillo does most things OK, the wireless on this is a bit slow for UI over the network
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17:01<FLHerne>Moving back towards topic, why does a V200 have tose big windows in the side?
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17:03<Mazur>Oh, dear, the map at stable has been made wit 10x running costs or so for trains. Anyone know how we can fix that?
17:03<Elukka>no idea about the windows
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17:04<Mazur>planetmaker, you still around?
17:08<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23751 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: rename NetworkUDPGameLoop to a more descriptive name, and move the UDP specific bits to network_udp
17:11<CIA-6>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23752 /trunk/src/network/network_udp.cpp: -Fix [FS#4938]: missing locking causing crash is extreme case when being in the MP lobby
17:13<appe_>how can i tell when i go bancrupt?
17:13<frosch123>when there is a news item about your company being in trouble
17:14<appe_>ah, i cant tell by the bank balance?
17:14<frosch123>well, when you have no money for some months
17:14<appe_>that i know
17:14<appe_>i was thinking about the numbers behind it :)
17:15<Rubidium>4 (or 3?) consecutive begins of quarters with a negative bank balance
17:16<frosch123>yeah, it only matters on 1st jan/apr/jul/okt
17:16<appe_>ah, i see
17:16<appe_>does it ignore the loan?
17:16<frosch123>loan does not matter
17:16<frosch123>only fluent money
17:16<appe_>ah, i see.
17:16<appe_>so i can loan myself up from a bancruptcy?
17:17<appe_>bancroopzii
17:17<encoded>yes just like greece
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17:22<@Terkhen>good night
17:22<Rubidium>greece has a loan?
17:22<Rubidium>doesn't a loan have a chance of being repaid?
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17:25<frosch123>would you lend some random dude 300k to build a railroad network?
17:26<Rubidium>then I'd statistically have a chance of getting my money back
17:26<Elukka>america has a loan
17:26<Elukka>doesn't a loan have a chance of being repaid?
17:27<Rubidium>Elukka: they're repaying their loan by loaning more
17:27<frosch123>just don't be the one loaning last
17:28<Rubidium>you mean lending, right?
17:28<frosch123>likely
17:35<appe_>that bancrupcy thing didnt work
17:35<appe_>went bancrupt even when on + :(
17:36<frosch123>you are charged loan interest on every quarter
17:36<appe_>ah
17:36<appe_>crap.
17:37<appe_>thus, ill keep myself 10-12.000+
17:37<appe_>let's see how it goes.
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17:46<BUTTMUNCH>timeouts were caused due to autosave indeed
17:47<BUTTMUNCH>now we gotta not forget to save
17:47<appe_>http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lx7vafr8cy1r7lwjko1_250.gif
17:50<frosch123>night
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20:02<FLHerne>Very quiet on here
20:03*encoded hacks openttd so you can stop planes
20:03<encoded>*crash*
20:03<FLHerne>Why would you want to?
20:03<BUTTMUNCH>LOL
20:03<BUTTMUNCH>that would be so funny
20:03<encoded>to make noise!
20:04<encoded>i bribed this local authority twice and they still hate me
20:04<BUTTMUNCH>i forgot to add a city to my plane routes
20:05<BUTTMUNCH>now it’s a pain in the ass to get them back to liking me again
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20:07<FLHerne>Openbox crashes every time I start OpenTTD :-(
20:08<BUTTMUNCH>im having a hard time transporting most of the people in the city
20:08<BUTTMUNCH>it says like 1200 of 8000
20:08<Elukka>more vehicles more better
20:09<BUTTMUNCH>hmm alright
20:09<Elukka>technically you need to always have a vehicle loading to get 100%, but i only do that with cargo
20:09<Elukka>passenger stations hover at like 70-80% or something
20:10<FLHerne>Advertising might help, too
20:10<BUTTMUNCH>ymeah
20:10<BUTTMUNCH>i’ll start adding more bus stations transporting people to airplanes
20:17<BUTTMUNCH>is there a console command to transfer money to a player in mp?
20:17<BUTTMUNCH>clicking is annoying
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20:26<Elukka>Eddi|zuHause: okay, there's one thing i'm confused about with CETS. are the 45 deg and intermediate views also supposed to be shortened by 1 px in each direction (for buffers/gangways) like the sidew view, or not?
20:26<Elukka>*side view
20:27<Eddi|zuHause>i'd say yes
20:27<Elukka>that's how i've been doing them but i looked at some of oberhümer's sprites and he doesn't seem to
20:28<Eddi|zuHause>the ET 85 looks a bit odd in / view
20:28<Eddi|zuHause>so i'd rather say he's wrong
20:30<Elukka>alright
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20:30<Elukka>hey, do the langholzwagen retain that thingy in the middle for holding the logs when they're used as normal stake wagons?
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20:31<Eddi|zuHause>probably yes, but rotated lengthwise
20:38<BUTTMUNCH>is there a way to legally remove a town?
20:42<BUTTMUNCH>sheit
20:42<BUTTMUNCH>caught bribing
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20:43<Eddi|zuHause>towns cannot be removed
20:43<BUTTMUNCH>what if I destroy every building and road
20:43<Eddi|zuHause>then you have a 0 population town, which may or may not grow back
20:43<BUTTMUNCH>sucks ;C
20:44<BUTTMUNCH>cuz only now i understand how the town placing works
20:45<encoded>what happens when you get caught bribing?
20:45<BUTTMUNCH>you can’t do anything in that city anymore
20:45<BUTTMUNCH>i think
20:45<BUTTMUNCH>all actions are gone
20:52<Elukka>for a time
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20:53<Elukka>eddi... the logs will be weird. they'll be bendy
20:53<Elukka>can it somehow be treated as one vehicle when logs are involved?
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but i'm not quite sure how yet
20:54<Eddi|zuHause>draw the loaded pair as one long wagon, though
20:54<Elukka>alright
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>possibly with some turning involved
20:55<Eddi|zuHause>so in the slightly slanted views, make one bogey turned
20:55<Elukka>hmm
20:57<Elukka>i'm not sure it'd be noticeable on this wagon, since this is the longer type that is coupled as normal to each other, but seems like a good idea for the smaller ones with a lot of empty space in between
20:57<Elukka>i have a hard idea picturing just how to draw it, though
20:57<Elukka>err, hard time
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21:00<Eddi|zuHause>i'm imagining like this: take the - view as 0, the \ view as 3, and the in-between ones as 1 and 2. in the 1 view, copy the front wagon from the 2 view, and the back wagon from the 0 view, draw the wood according to the 1 template
21:00<Eddi|zuHause>in the 2 view, take the front wagon from 3 and the back wagon from 1, and draw the wood like 2
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>etc.
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>the 0 and 3 view are straight, like normal
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21:06<Elukka>hmm
21:08<Elukka>sounds sensible
21:12<Elukka>i suppose i should draw a sprite with processed lumber too
21:12<Eddi|zuHause>possible
21:21<BUTTMUNCH>if cities are happier with you, do towns gro faster?
21:23<Elukka>nah
21:37<Elukka>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/2247/langholzwagen_4_bav.png
21:38<Elukka>this is an odd sprite... i'd like to see it in game before i start doing all the variants to see if there are issues
21:44<Elukka>in the meantime, i found some nice references for prussian stake/low side wagons in this year's fleischmann catalog so i guess i'll do those
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21:54<BUTTMUNCH>lol funding towns in multiplayer is insane
21:58<Wolf01>'night
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23:55<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: why is it length 4? i see only 3 and 5 in the tracking table
23:57<Elukka>if i remember right... the length 5 one is era II, and i figured i should do an era I wagon, and i figured the longer one would be more useful to do first since it can function as a normal stake wagon
23:57<Elukka>i didn't realize it wasn't on the tracking table
23:57<Elukka>it's based on the bavarian wagon, i understand only the prussians kept the short (length 3) ones around for very long
23:59<encoded>openttd needs highways
---Logclosed Thu Jan 05 00:00:03 2012