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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-01-09

---Logopened Mon Jan 09 00:00:29 2012
---Daychanged Mon Jan 09 2012
00:00<Nat_as>I changed the Developer setting and understand this can crash the game, but I can't seem to even find the option to load new newgrifs into an existing scenerio
00:00<Nat_as>which really sucks when people make tropical maps without the tropical refurbishment set
00:03<Nat_as>(and is anybody awake?)
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00:13<Nat_as>no wait, I hit the wrong settings, it works now
00:13<Nat_as>Woooo!
00:13<Nat_as>thanks anyways sleepy people!
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02:23<@planetmaker>moin
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06:16<@peter1138>load average: 150.28, 149.27, 148.63
06:16<@peter1138>not so good :p
06:18<@planetmaker>:-)
06:26<^Spike^>ah... just 150? :)
06:26*^Spike^ saw like 600 2 weeks ago... :)
06:28<TrueBrain>lol @ peter1138 :)
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08:09<Eddi|zuHause>"please don't include an expert mode that can screw up things. people always think they're experts."
08:10<@planetmaker>quite right
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08:15<TrueBrain>but I am!
08:15<TrueBrain>really!
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09:08<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: but we have an expert mode... it allows you to change everything about the game ;)
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i guess it helps when it's not called "expert mode" :)
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>but more like "source code" :p
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09:19<@Belugas>hello
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09:46<rasco>i made a server that runs 3 times as slowly by pausing the game constantly
09:47<@peter1138>heh
09:48<@peter1138>in video/dedicated_v.cpp, change the 30s to 90s :p
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09:52<rasco>no, i made it server-side only
09:52<rasco>so you dont need a modified client
09:52<TrueBrain>what peter1138 says is server side only
09:53<rasco>uh? what does it do?
09:53<@peter1138>makes it run 3x as slowly
09:53<rasco>is it only in 1.2?
09:54<rasco>cause i cant find a "30" in that file
09:54<TrueBrain>in src/gfx_type.h these days
09:55<TrueBrain>silly enough
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09:55<rasco>awesome... and that works? i gotta try it out right now...
09:56<rasco>cause i talked to ppl yesterday
09:56<rasco>and they said it's not possible to slow the game down
09:56<rasco>without economic effects
09:57<TrueBrain>that was because you asked the wrong question; or at least, it was understood as another question
09:57<+michi_cc>Slowing the game down without economic effects is totally easy. Only that people don't actually want that :)
09:58<TrueBrain>michi_cc: I guess we found someone who does; he is now pausing the game to get the same :P
09:58<+michi_cc>Because it also means 'slowing vehicles down' which most people don't want.
09:58<rasco>oh, okay. yes i want EVERYTHING slowed down
09:58<rasco>so that i can play the game over weeks
09:59<rasco>without having to spend hours in front of the screen
09:59<@peter1138>:)
09:59<andythenorth>use the patch from Eddi|zuHause :P
09:59<TrueBrain>from our point of view, it is a very unusual request
09:59<TrueBrain>but yeah, you can slow down the whole game easily :P
09:59<rasco>it's more like a MMO
09:59<rasco>well, without the massive...
09:59<rasco>but you know what i mean
09:59<TrueBrain>just vehicle movement will be painfully slow :(
09:59<+michi_cc>Easy, just change MILLISECONDS_PER_TICK in gfx_type.h to whatever you want.
09:59<TrueBrain>michi_cc: that was what peter1138 said yes :P
10:00<@planetmaker>rasco, you can also just enable the "build in pause" mode and only unpause when needed
10:00<rasco>wow haha changing MILLISECONDS_PER_TICK effects every single file -> recompile EVERYTHING :D :(
10:00<@peter1138>i guess my tree is old? :P
10:00<@peter1138>yeah, damn those headers
10:00<rasco>planetmaker: i want to make a server for many people, running for weeks or months
10:00<rasco>starting at 1800 or sth
10:00<rasco>with NARS
10:00<rasco>an epic world
10:01<rasco>so i dont want to be pausing and unpausing manually
10:01<rasco>but instead just have the game run really slowly
10:01<@planetmaker>I see
10:03<rasco>how many minutes is a month approximately?
10:03<rasco>or seconds
10:03<TrueBrain>74 ticks in a day
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10:05<@planetmaker>a year computes roughly to 13 ... 14 minutes
10:06<rasco>i might make a year take something like... 6 hours
10:07<rasco>25 days for 100 years
10:07<rasco>two months for a game from 1800 to 2000
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10:25<rasco>is it possible for the server to take money from a company without a desync?
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10:31<TrueBrain>only if you send it to another company
10:44<TWerkhoven>that reminds me of something, why do you 'give money' to a clien
10:44<TWerkhoven>t instead of a company
10:44<@planetmaker>rasco, game scripts might do that. Or can't they already, TrueBrain ?
10:44<TWerkhoven>even though the money goes into the company vault
10:45<TrueBrain>planetmaker: nope
10:45<TrueBrain>TWerkhoven: histerical reasons
10:45<@planetmaker>ah. sad :-(
10:45<andythenorth>* raisins
10:45<@planetmaker>hysterical raisins even
10:45<TWerkhoven>hehe
10:46<rasco>Ultra slow NARS server: webciv.net
10:47<rasco>Just started, year 1830
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10:58<rasco>now that i see my horse carriages moving ultra slowly i see that i'd actually like to see them move faster, just with less in-game time passing :)
10:59<rasco>does eddi's patch work well?
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11:02<TrueBrain>rasco: pick any daylength patch for that :)
11:02<TrueBrain>read carefully what they do, as they all approach the problem differently
11:03<rasco>i only found one daylength patch
11:03<rasco>the one by pavel
11:04<andythenorth>the patch by Eddi|zuHause is stupid and utterly brilliant
11:04<rasco>what's stupid and what's brilliant about it?
11:04<andythenorth>at the end of each year, it rewinds the date by 1 year (it does this once only for eac year)
11:04<rasco>:D
11:04<andythenorth>in the game, this actually works perfectly
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11:05<rasco>is there any that works server-side only?
11:05<andythenorth>but it means vehicle availability is a little odd
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11:26<@planetmaker>rasco, I guess your pausing-idea is the only server-side solution which seems possible
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12:53<frosch123>always misreads the name of the grf "Cantilever Bidge Renewal"
12:53<frosch123>+ /me
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13:40<Wolf01>hello o/
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13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r23779 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: bulgarian - 12 changes by kokobongo
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: croatian - 4 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by habell
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_AU - 2 changes by tomas4g
13:45<CIA-1>OpenTTD: latvian - 25 changes by Parastais, Tranzistors
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14:04<@Terkhen>hello
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16:03<@planetmaker>A goal script can't yet try to found an industry, right?
16:03<@planetmaker>http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSIndustry.html
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16:13<frosch123>planetmaker: http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSIndustryType.html#93f829d0a8482889ddefd1d215cb34a7
16:13<frosch123>need extending for OWNER_DEITY though
16:13<frosch123>it can only make other companies fund industries :p
16:13<@planetmaker>:-D
16:14<@planetmaker>and it can't give you yet money iirc
16:14<@planetmaker>but make you build industries. Nice ;-)
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16:14<@planetmaker>"You have a possession to fund a new industry every year. Make sure you have enough money! [ ] accept [ ] quit game"
16:15<@planetmaker>s/possession/obsession/g
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16:20<Wolf01>'night
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16:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23780 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
16:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4963] (r23764): also name the two new errors server-side. As extra,
16:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: split up one of the errors in 3 errors, to be more specific what goes wrong. As
16:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: cherry on top, make sure on all sides we can never again forget to add such
16:22<CIA-1>OpenTTD: entries on both sides, by introducing an assert_compile()
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16:41<brendan10211>ehllo all
16:41<brendan10211>hello
16:42<@planetmaker>HELO
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17:15<brendan10211>herro all
17:16<brendan10211>aaand bai
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17:16<Nemoder>hi, I'm running stable and can't figure out how to get any of the town name newgrf's to work, it just defaults to whatever is set in game options
17:17<Nemoder>is there some trick to activating them?
17:19<Noldo>what did you find with google?
17:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23781 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4964]: under certain circumstances, e.g. a single invalid order, trying to determine the next order state could end up in an infinite loop
17:20<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23782 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix [FS#4965]: crash due to genders used for station name in hangar string of Italian translation
17:21<CIA-1>OpenTTD: rubidium * r23783 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h vehicle_cmd.cpp): -Cleanup: remove ancient but not needed command flag
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17:22<Nemoder>Noldo: me? nothing helpful, just to add them to the newgrf list, but it doesn't seem to change anything on new games
17:23<Rubidium>you still need to choose the town name generator in the "game options", although I don't know how that'd exactly work in the configuration file
17:23<Rubidium>but generate a configuration file with the GUI and use thatt
17:24<Nemoder>oh, just manually edit the config file? the game option screen doesn't add newgrf names to that menu
17:27<Nemoder>ahh nevermind, i had to restart the game
17:27<Nemoder>seems fine now, thanks
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17:31<andythenorth>is there anyway to do something like a "for 1 to n" loop in CPP?
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17:32<valhallasw>for(i=0;i<=n;i++) {} ?
17:32<andythenorth>looks like C++ ;)
17:33<valhallasw>oh, you mean something else with cpp?
17:33<@Terkhen>good night
17:34*andythenorth suspects pre-processor doesn't do for loops :P
17:34<valhallasw>you could probably include a pipe though
17:35<valhallasw>which gives the same effect
17:35<valhallasw>with some more code cruft, though ;-)
17:35<valhallasw>(I have no idea what you're trying to accomplish)
17:35<+michi_cc>What have pipes to do with the C PreProcessor?
17:36<+michi_cc>cpp, not c++ :)
17:36<valhallasw>yes, I read that.
17:37<andythenorth>I have stuff like this, but it doesn't scale well to 'n' trailers :P
17:37<andythenorth>#if THIS_NUM_TRAILERS == 1
17:37<andythenorth> #include "../templates/trailer_callbacks/build_1_trailer_cb.tnml"
17:37<andythenorth>#endif
17:37<valhallasw>the preprocessor maybe cannot do loops, but you could make a program to unroll it yourself and pump it through a pipe into the preprocessor ;-)
17:37<valhallasw>or just make your own pre-preprocessor!
17:37<@planetmaker>andythenorth: what is your aim?
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17:40<andythenorth>planetmaker: the aim is templating to handle 1-n trailers
17:40<andythenorth>realistically n is probably 4 though
17:40<andythenorth>so I don't know if it's worth the effort
17:40<@planetmaker>templating is not an aim
17:40<andythenorth>I might just hard-code evey
17:40<andythenorth>*everything
17:40<@planetmaker>what does it look like
17:42<andythenorth>I didn't write all of it yet, but here's an example: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/914/
17:42<andythenorth>that's fine for 3 trailers, and would extend easily to 4
17:42<andythenorth>but I wanted to see if there was a way to scale to n
17:42<andythenorth>"write it twice, automate it" :P
17:43<@planetmaker>I don't get that approach, andy
17:43<andythenorth>in the example code?
17:43<@planetmaker>why not make a template for each trailer# and just include that?
17:44<@planetmaker>instead of #define NUM_TRAILERS 1
17:44<@planetmaker>#include trailers.tnml
17:44<@planetmaker>use #include trailers_1.tnml
17:45<andythenorth>hmm
17:45<andythenorth>let's see
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17:45<andythenorth>there was some reason that made sense at the time :P
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17:46<iddqd>just finished building my new system
17:46<iddqd>jealous much?
17:46<iddqd>:3
17:46<^Spike^>whoop die fricking doo
17:46<iddqd>oh he jealous
17:46<^Spike^>wrong channel actually.. but it fits anyway
17:46<^Spike^>cause reading that i do have the same thoughts
17:50<TrueBrain>^Spike^: it is indeed an appropiate reply in any channel :P
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: there is some way to replace tokens in strings, so something along the lines of "build_" ## NUM_TRAILERS ## "_trailer_cb"
17:52<andythenorth>I wondered about that
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not sure about the exact syntax
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>but it definitely is possible
17:52<Hawson>openttd/trunk/src/screenshot.cpp:725:40: error: ?FileExists? was not declared in this scope
17:52<Hawson>hmmm...
17:52<andythenorth>I could do it nearly in nml as well, with an extra switch and advanced varact 2
17:53<andythenorth>write the number of trailers into the switch with CPP and branch accordingly
17:53<Hawson>r23783
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: why not just define your artic callback as "01 NUM_TRAILERS TRAILER_ID"? then it works for any number of trailers
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: don't need a template for each
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>Hawson: there recently was some header shuffling
17:55<andythenorth>CPP in the upper bound of the range?
17:55-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1A469.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: yes
17:55<Hawson>Eddi|zuHause: I figured, though I'd mention it.
17:56<TrueBrain>@op
17:56-!-mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
17:56-!-TrueBrain changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.1.4, 1.2.0-beta2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, ever | English only
17:56<@TrueBrain>@deop
17:56-!-mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>Hawson: which compiler?
17:57<Hawson>gcc
17:57-!-JVassie [~James@2.27.99.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:57<rasco>hey guys, wanna join my Ultra Slow game? time runs 10 times slower than normal: address: webciv.net
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>OS?
17:57<Hawson>3.4.6
17:57<Hawson>Fedora 16
17:57<TrueBrain>3.4.6?!
17:57<TrueBrain>holy crap :P
17:57<Hawson>gcc version 3.4.6 20060404 (Red Hat 3.4.6-11)
17:57*Hawson shrugs
17:57<Hawson>Oh, sorry
17:57<Hawson>wrong host.
17:57<Hawson>that's my Centos4 box. :)
17:58<Hawson>gcc version 4.6.2 20111027 (Red Hat 4.6.2-1) (GCC)
17:58<Hawson>that's correct
17:58<andythenorth>hmm
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds more sane :p
17:58<Hawson>slightly
17:58<Hawson>but only just
17:58<TrueBrain>any special configure options you used?
17:59<Hawson>well, *I* don't think so. :)
17:59<Hawson>lemme paste it
17:59<TrueBrain>any local modifications?
17:59<TrueBrain>lets start with that
18:00<Hawson>no local changes
18:00<Hawson>this is straght SVN
18:00<TrueBrain>let me guess, you dont have png :)
18:00<Hawson>that'd be a good guess...
18:01<Hawson>and while correct (missing libpng-devel package), that's not the problem
18:02<Hawson>I disable some of the compression options
18:02<Hawson>lzma, etc
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>you need to reconfigure after installing stuff
18:03<Hawson>did that, actually
18:03<frosch123>night
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18:04<CIA-1>OpenTTD: truebrain * r23784 /trunk/src/screenshot.cpp: -Revert (r23740): compiling without libpng failed to include a correct header
18:04<TrueBrain>that should do it
18:04<Hawson>(doing a full rebuild)
18:04<@planetmaker>Hawson: w/o liblzma you might be unable to join some servers
18:04<Hawson>I have that instlaled
18:04<Hawson>planetmaker: that's okay
18:04<Hawson>I saw the warnings
18:04<Hawson>during ./configure and both understand and accept them
18:04<@planetmaker>I'd even guess: most servers
18:05<@planetmaker>it's our default compression
18:05<Hawson>I'm not going to connect remotely from this system
18:05<@planetmaker>ok
18:05<TrueBrain>include-trees are a bitch! :)
18:05<Hawson>builds okay now
18:05<Hawson>TrueBrain: indeed
18:05<TrueBrain>anyway, I was going to bad I said 15 minutes ago :)
18:05<TrueBrain>night!
18:06<@planetmaker>sleep well, TrueBrain
18:06<Hawson>thanks
18:06<@planetmaker>And I should go, too.
18:06<@planetmaker>g'night all
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>bah... the colours struck again...
18:06<Eddi|zuHause>two blue people talking makes them totally indistinguishible
18:07<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you took a blue pill?
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18:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i wouldn't actually remember that, that's the point of the blue pill
18:08<andythenorth>hmm
18:08<andythenorth>maybe I should stop ducking the issue, and just write a code generator
18:08<andythenorth>but that will suck
18:08<Eddi|zuHause>i have a code generator :)
18:08<andythenorth>writing unscalable CPP is much better surely :P
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18:09<Eddi|zuHause>it's also shinily refactored since i last offered it to you :)
18:09<andythenorth>o rly
18:09<andythenorth>hmm
18:09<andythenorth>on the one hand that sounds shiny
18:10<andythenorth>on the other, my code is nearly done :(
18:10<andythenorth>if I rewrote it, or used a generator it's only to make it more elegant :P
18:10<andythenorth>it won't make the trucks any better
18:10<andythenorth>is there anything actually wrong with clunky CPP?
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18:15<andythenorth>do vehicles have persistent storage yet?
18:15<andythenorth>they should :P
18:15<andythenorth>hmm
18:15*andythenorth figures out a way to fake it
18:16*andythenorth awards self 7 bits of persistent storage
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: they only have random bits
18:16<andythenorth>how many vehicle IDs do I get?
18:16<andythenorth>is it 255, or 65k?
18:16<Eddi|zuHause>16k for articulation, 64k otherwise
18:16<andythenorth>16k is enough
18:17<andythenorth>let's say my set has 1k vehicles (far less in reality)
18:17<andythenorth>@calc 7*15000
18:17<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: 105000
18:17<andythenorth>quite a lot of storage
18:17<andythenorth>basically, build lead vehicle, shorten to 1/8, build 7 'storage' vehicles
18:17<andythenorth>ID is significant
18:17<andythenorth>this can only be written to on construction
18:17<Eddi|zuHause>CETS used some 1200-ish IDs at the last count
18:17<andythenorth>this is read only storage :P
18:18<andythenorth>stupid idea?
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>what do you need the "storage" for?
18:19<andythenorth>things like 'what type of truck is this: solo, drawbar trailer(s), fifth-wheel trailer(s)'
18:19<andythenorth>not actually much else
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>why not encode that in the ID?
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18:19<andythenorth>could also do that
18:19<andythenorth>or have a big lookup table
18:20<andythenorth>or solve issue differently with CPP
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: and you have the vehicle custom flags
18:20<andythenorth>I do?
18:20<andythenorth>this isn't blocking anything, I'm just looking for code elegance
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>which you can read individually, or ORed over the whole consist
18:20<andythenorth>the CPP I'm using is brutally robust
18:20<andythenorth>where are these flags? :P
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>dunno, maybe they exist only for trains
18:21<andythenorth>a prop or a cb?
18:21<Eddi|zuHause>prop
18:21<andythenorth>prop 08?
18:22<andythenorth>not listed for RVs
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18:22<andythenorth>could also set the animation frame
18:22<andythenorth>or even the sound effect (assuming that can be read)
18:23<andythenorth>anyway, the CPP works, and I might go to bed
18:23<andythenorth>good night
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23:46<__ln__>morgen
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 10 00:00:47 2012