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#openttd IRC Logs for 2012-01-16

---Logopened Mon Jan 16 00:00:59 2012
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01:00<Rubidium>kais58: so F17 is going to be released in February with a GCC that isn't going to be released in April?
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02:29*andythenorth considers writing BANDIT in xml
02:29<andythenorth>in all seriousness
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02:54*peter1138 considers writing andythenorth in ASCII
02:54<@peter1138>oh, i just did
02:54<Eddi|zuHause>no, that was utf8 :p
02:56<@peter1138>it was both! how convenient! what a coincidence...
02:57<Eddi|zuHause>that's unpossible!
02:58<Eddi|zuHause>is a plaintext file not containing any <> (or other special characters) valid xml?
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03:05<@peter1138>no
03:21*andythenorth sleeps for an hour then tries again
03:34<andythenorth>but but but
03:35<andythenorth>name/value pairs are about as useful as xml in most cases
03:35<andythenorth>and don't require an xml library to deal with all the nodes and crap
03:36*andythenorth wonders what happens if python loads some text from a file that is structured as a dict
03:36<andythenorth>do I need to call eval() on it or something?
03:36<dihedral>greetings
03:41<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you can eval() it
03:42<Eddi|zuHause>or you can import it
03:45<andythenorth>if I import it, do I need to declare it as a class first?
03:45<Eddi|zuHause>no, just it should be an assignment in the file
03:46<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. xxx = {...}
03:46<andythenorth>ho
03:46<andythenorth>this could be fun
03:46<andythenorth>not now, but later
03:46*andythenorth has to work
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04:49<TRG>Yo?
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05:05<Eddi|zuHause>no.
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05:09<@planetmaker>moin
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05:32<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause: i read somewhere that you can tell a train to look x blocks ahead for a reservation, instead of the current 1 block?
05:33<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: that is currently not implemented
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05:38<Elukka>i've always heard they don't look further ahead at all but if there are two equal lines and one of them has a train several signal blocks away, they will consistently pick the empty line
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05:48<welshdragon>Eddi|zuHause: then why have I just found Yapf.rail_look_ahead_max_signals
05:48<welshdragon>:P
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05:48<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: that does something different
05:49<Eddi|zuHause>welshdragon: that is for load balancing, not for reserving more than one block
05:50<welshdragon>ah
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07:41<kais58>anyonw know what trunk rlease 1.2.0 is based off?
07:41<andythenorth>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/
07:42<andythenorth>probably a tag in there somewhere?
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07:45<kais58>there's the problem, 1.2 is r23767, and r23770 fixed it so it would compile on gcc-4.7
07:50<@Yexo>use the precompiled binaries, compile trunk or wait for 1.2.0-beta3
08:07<Rubidium>how can we know a what version a not-yet-released binary is based on? Even then, releases are no trunk versions
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09:01<kais58>releases are branced off the trunk at a certain point though arent they?
09:02<@planetmaker>yes, so?
09:03<kais58>I was saying which version of trunk 1.2 was taken off from
09:04<@planetmaker>1.2 is not yet branched
09:04<kais58>rather what version of trunk 1.2beta2 is
09:05<@planetmaker>well. check the svn. I don't know by heart
09:05<@planetmaker>and... why does it matter?
09:05<@planetmaker>I've the feeling all this is not your real question
09:05<kais58>r23767, I went and checked and r23770 was when the gcc-4.7 fix was added, hence it doesnt work but trunk does, so it doesnt matter
09:06<@planetmaker>yes, so what. Then a release does not compile with gcc 4.7.
09:06<@planetmaker>happens
09:07-!-brendan10211 [~brendan10@cpe-069-134-169-113.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd
09:07<@planetmaker>especially for development versions of compilers
09:08<@planetmaker>thus if you expect it to work, you should use released gcc versions
09:09<kais58>I wasnt expecting it to work, and if I were building it to actually use I would, and have
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09:14<@Belugas>hello
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09:19<brendan10211>yo
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10:24<Elukka>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_yMQEvxLk
10:27<@planetmaker>random link?
10:29<brendan10211>https://twitter.com/#!/RealTimeWWII
10:29<brendan10211>a wild link appears
10:37<Elukka>links everywhere!
10:37<Elukka>random link of a pretty damn well filmed video of a br 52
10:38<brendan10211>link used trojan!
10:38<brendan10211>your computer is now poisoned
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10:59<Ammler>https://secure.openttd.org/security/en/CVE-2012-0049 sounds very different as the entry in the changelog, the changelog entry sounds like a different change
11:00<brendan10211>a somewhat-more-explained link appears!
11:00<Ammler>"make default timeouts for certain states lower and configurable" sounds very harmless :-)
11:00<@planetmaker>yes
11:01<Ammler>but if you compare the revisions, it seems to be the same
11:01<@planetmaker>It is the same
11:01<@Yexo>Ammler: infinite -> 15seconds is lower :p
11:01<Ammler>is that a trick to hide it?
11:02<+michi_cc>Giving clear explanations how to misuse a security hole before a a fixed version is released isn't much of a bright idea.
11:02<Ammler>ok
11:02<@planetmaker>what michi says
11:03<Ammler>I will use the changeset text then
11:03<@planetmaker>and it's not like the commit message is a lie in any respect. It even is more accurate
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11:05<Rubidium>it's a technique to not put extra attention on it, and to prevent us from having to rush the release because it's being actively exploited in the real world
11:05<Rubidium>that's what you get for such an open development model
11:06<Ammler>if someone cares, he can read the CVE
11:07<@Yexo>which is only made public after the release
11:11<Ammler>I assume, the many compile warnings are known...
11:11<@peter1138>never assume
11:12<@peter1138>i for one don't get any
11:12<@planetmaker>gcc 4.0.x has some. yes
11:12<@peter1138>even debian's on 4.4...
11:12<@planetmaker>but those are the only ones know afaik
11:12<@planetmaker>hm, 4.4?
11:13<@peter1138>4.4.5 here
11:15<@Yexo>no warnings with 4.4.6 for me
11:17<Rubidium>Ammler: which warnings?
11:21<Ammler>https://build.opensuse.org/package/rawlog?arch=i586&package=openttd&project=home%3Aopenttdcoop&repository=openSUSE_Factory
11:22<Ammler>gcc46-4.6.2
11:22<Ammler>but well, it is 1.1.5
11:23<Rubidium>Ammler: how often have you asked us about those warnings?
11:24<Ammler>well, seems to be more as with gcc45
11:25<Rubidium>very unlikely
11:25<Rubidium>as it's the same warning over and over again, and I doubt gcc4.5 does need (significantly) less instances than gcc4.6
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13:33<@Terkhen>hello
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13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: translators * r23815 /trunk/src/lang/ (12 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: belarusian - 13 changes by KorneySan
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: dutch - 7 changes by habell
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_AU - 7 changes by tomas4g
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: english_US - 1 changes by Rubidium
13:46<CIA-1>OpenTTD: french - 13 changes by ElNounch
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14:20<Wolf01>hello
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14:43<__ln__>hi Wolf01
14:44<__ln__>Wolf01: how would you comment on the Costa Concordia case?
14:45<Wolf01>that ship was signed since the launch
14:46<andythenorth>why did anyone even bother replying to tieske100 in the Mac 10.3.9 thread?
14:46<andythenorth>the request started rudely and continues that way
14:46<andythenorth>mac users annoy me
14:49<valhallasw>andythenorth: he says pleaze.
14:50<andythenorth>he says PLEAZE
14:50<andythenorth>which is quite different :)
14:52<valhallasw>I can imagine the annoyance of buying a mac and seeing your favorite game does not run, actually.
14:53<__ln__>this is how you write a polite bug report: http://trac.videolan.org/vlc/ticket/5852
14:53<valhallasw>andythenorth: and it's clearly not a native speaker. Combine that with someone who just wants to play the game - I can understand the post
14:54<valhallasw>and I think most people in the thread react very profesionally
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14:54<valhallasw>__ln__: :D
15:02<andythenorth>also
15:02<andythenorth>to a large extent, lego fans that post online are idiots
15:02<andythenorth>this doesn't mean all lego fans are idiots
15:03<Wolf01>I agree
15:03<andythenorth>but it correlates idiocy, lego, and a disposition to post online
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15:04<@planetmaker>20:52 valhallasw: I can imagine the annoyance of buying a mac and seeing your favorite game does not run, actually. <-- if he has osx 10.3.9, he bought that machine like 5 years ago or longer ago
15:05<andythenorth>he is moaning about having to wait
15:05<andythenorth>but his OS is ancient
15:05<andythenorth>we should jump for him, but he hasn't upgraded his OS?
15:05<__ln__>it costs money, you jumping does not
15:07<Rubidium>well, we don't jump for people that did update their OSX, so I guess it's only logical to jump for him
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15:09<valhallasw>planetmaker: oh. good point
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15:10<valhallasw>andythenorth: partially. on re-reading: apparently the download page notes osx 10.3 is supported
15:11<valhallasw>apparently it's not, which means you have the choice: either fix the code or remove the note 10.3 is supported
15:12<Rubidium>just recompile libicu with the right compile flags...
15:15<andythenorth>are any mac versions supported?
15:15<andythenorth>I thought not?
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15:21<fluffy>can anybody recommend a good way of spacing vehicles?
15:23-!-heffer [~felix@hyperion.fetzig.org] has joined #openttd
15:24<@Belugas>2 tiles between signals?
15:27<heffer>any idea why ottd 1.15 fails to build on gcc 4.7? http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=3707017&name=build.log
15:29<@Terkhen>@commit 23770
15:29<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: Commit by smatz :: r23770 /trunk/src/script/api (script_station.hpp script_waypoint.hpp) (2012-01-07 18:37:22 UTC)
15:29<@DorpsGek>Terkhen: -Fix: compilation with GCC 4.7
15:29<@Terkhen>^ maybe it is missing that fix?
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15:30<heffer>thanks for the pointer :D
15:30<@Terkhen>yw :)
15:33<Rubidium>heffer: the whole 1.1 series fails on gcc-trunk
15:34<heffer>Rubidium: then i better just jump to 1.2 on what is to become fedora 17?
15:34<heffer>beta2 would be okay? or do i need trunk?
15:34<Rubidium>I wouldn't
15:34<heffer>well F17 will not be released until about may
15:35<heffer>until then it is considered to be a development version, so people wouldn't bother running a beta
15:35<heffer>the stable F16 and 15 build fine as they're still on gcc 4.6
15:35<Rubidium>just backport some that trunk patch
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15:36<heffer>was just about to do that :) but from your statement i figured it might be much more than this one change :D
15:37<Rubidium>no clue
15:37<Rubidium>but gcc 4.7 has become stricter in many places
15:37<heffer>i'll give it a shot
15:38<Rubidium>even then, they release fedora with an unreleased version of gcc?
15:39<@SmatZ>heffer: configure with CXXFLAGS="-fpermissive", it could help as well
15:41<heffer>Rubidium: well sometimes they even include unreleased versions of glibc as well :D
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15:41<heffer>and then you have Linus Torvalds raging on out bugzilla because it killed sound playback for the proprietary flash plugin
15:42<heffer>s/out/our/
15:42<@SmatZ>@commit 23196
15:42<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r23196 trunk/src/currency.cpp (2011-11-12 10:21:00 UTC)
15:42<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Fix: GCC 4.7 compilation
15:42<@SmatZ>@commit 23191
15:42<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by rubidium :: r23191 trunk/src/table/palettes.h (2011-11-11 19:47:28 UTC)
15:42<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Fix: GCC 4.7 compilation warnings related to narrowing in palettes
15:42<@SmatZ>as well...
15:42<@SmatZ>@commit 22719
15:42<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r22719 trunk/src/fileio.cpp (2011-08-04 20:04:58 UTC)
15:42<@DorpsGek>SmatZ: -Fix: compilation with gcc 4.7
15:42<@SmatZ>and maybe other fixes
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15:44<@SmatZ>heffer: if you use gcc trunk, you have to use openttd trunk as well ;)
15:45<Ammler>hehe, there is a distro even more bleeding as suse
15:50<@SmatZ>:)
15:50<@SmatZ>good evening Ammler :)
15:51<Ammler>sali SmatZ :-)
15:53<heffer>Ammler: i really appreciate your spec files for the openttd :) i always shamelessly copy your Summary and %description when adapting for fedora
15:56<Ammler>heffer, you are very welcome :-)
15:58<heffer>you save me a lot of work :D
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16:19<__ln__>22:41 < heffer> and then you have Linus Torvalds raging on out bugzilla because it killed sound playback for the proprietary flash plugin <--- he was raging for a good reason
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16:19<heffer>yes i think so too
16:21<__ln__>if anyone missed that conversation, here it is: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=638477#c129
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16:43<kais58>hi heffer
16:43<heffer>hi kais58:D
16:44<kais58>yeah, forgot to mention that on that bug report :)
16:45<kais58>note that 1.1.5 and 1.2.0beta2 fail at different points and trunk works on gcc-4.7 :)
16:46<Rubidium>pff... just use a slighty older version of gcc-4.7 ;)
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17:04<@Terkhen>good night
17:05<@planetmaker>g'night Terkhen
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17:29<CIA-1>OpenTTD: yexo * r23816 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix (r23635, r23805): make SCC_ENCODED the first entry in the StringControlCode enum since it's value is not allowed to change
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17:49<Wolf01>'night
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19:10-!-JefferyT [~jefft@pool-72-71-225-27.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd
19:10<JefferyT>Check out this viral video http://bit.ly/x5JHCf
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19:11<Eddi|zuHause>is a "viral video" a "video contaminated with a virus"?
19:12-!-JefferyT [~jefft@pool-72-71-225-27.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd
19:12<JefferyT>Check out this viral video http://bit.ly/x5JHCf
19:12-!-JefferyT [~jefft@pool-72-71-225-27.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has left #openttd []
19:15-!-JefferyT [~jefft@pool-72-71-225-27.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd
19:15<JefferyT>Check out this viral video http://bit.ly/x5JHCf
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19:15<Eddi|zuHause>any op feeling responsible?
19:17-!-JefferyT [~jefft@pool-72-71-225-27.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd
19:17<JefferyT>Check out this viral video http://bit.ly/x5JHCf
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19:18<__ln__>all the ops are probably still watching the viral video
19:19-!-JefferyT [~jefft@pool-72-71-225-27.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #openttd
19:19<JefferyT>Check out this viral video http://bit.ly/x5JHCf
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19:20-!-mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
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19:20<Ropeburn>?
19:20<Ropeburn>hallo?
19:20-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~jefft@pool-72-71-225-27.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] by glx
19:20-!-mode/#openttd [-o glx] by DorpsGek
19:21<Ropeburn>ooh, it is all kicking off now :O
19:21<__ln__>you're jumping into conclusions
19:21<Ropeburn>whome?
19:23-!-pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-182-174.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit []
19:23<Ropeburn>Sooooo. anything interesting?
19:23-!-Ropeburn [568e4206@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit []
19:23<__ln__>fourier integrals
19:24<__ln__>too slow
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19:57<Guest24236>Hi, quick question (newbie here) is it possible to play multiplayer with cargodist between two clients that are the same version?
19:58<@Yexo>yes
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20:06<Guest24236>Cool, thanks
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21:34<Eddi|zuHause>random idea: when cloning a vehicle that isn't available anymore, buy the vehicle that this vehicle is set to be autoreplaced to
21:36<kais58>or if a vehicle is set to be autoreplaced and you clone it, you clone it post upgrade?
21:38<Eddi|zuHause>kais58: i could pause the game, set autoreplace, clone, unset autoreplace, and not have the vehicle replced
21:39<Eddi|zuHause>kais58: i would get all the benefits of cloning (shared/copied orders, group membership, vehicle numbering, ...)
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21:54<kais58>I mea the cloned version is the one after the upgrade
21:54<kais58>regardless of the state of the original
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---Logclosed Tue Jan 17 00:00:12 2012